My Rim Brake Bike is Slower than New Disc Bike (by a lot…) | The NERO Show Ep. 94

[@three10media]

Can we have a segment like in Top Gear where Jessie is the Stig and takes bikes around Centennial Park and they get ranked on a leaderboard? I could see a future where Dave Arthur is calling out Jessie Coyle lap times as a proof point for a bike!

[@ml1186]

Some say, he only rides rim brakes!

[@romankarabutin3781]

That's a cool idea! But there's no way you can implement it the right way do every tested bike is in the same condition. Velodrome maybe😄

[@redkeyspoke]

Wearing full face helmet, of course!

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Hang on ... does that make me Richard Hammond ... I'm not sure I want to crash that much 🤪

[@romankarabutin3781]

@@ChrisMillerCycling well, you're definitely not a Captain Slow👌🏼😏 and Jessie fits Clarkson's type😅

[@messi9991]

Calling Pidcock a failed road racer is just pure shade. How many make it pro? How many perform at the level that Pidcock does? Strade Bianchi, Tour stage, Amstel Gold, like that ain't failed whatsoever.

[@macht4turbo]

It is all relative. He seems to have huge potential and it looks like he is underperforming. That is the failed part. The same way roglic is being criticized. I would not call him a failed talent, but I do see why people are disappointed

[@M3Atelier-Initiative]

@@macht4turbo I'm sure Ineos are quite thrilled to have him within their ranks.

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

Equal tire pressure across tire widths does not equal the same speed or comfort. This is a common misconception. Hoop stress is what you are looking for. 100 PSI in a 23mm tire has equivalent hoop stress to ~72 PSI in a 32mm tire.

[@craigpavia8943]

it amazes me that nobody seems to understand this...I raced on 19s as a kid, trained on 23s, 25s, 28s and 30s at various pressures and NONE are what you would call comfortable.

[@lebasnems]

To be clear, this is more a comparison between an aero bike and a non aero bike, the non-aero bike just happens to be a rim brake one in this case. There is a reason why the pros use the propel and not the TCR...

[@tilmanfehlig5973]

Exactly!

[@_gregvalencia]

I think the arguments are almost the same. With the updated UCI regulations regard tube shape ratios, older UCI approved bike will never be as aero as more modern bikes, regardless of rims or disks. But because the change happened as disk brakes became the norm, rim brake bikes in general are going to be older and therefore less aero

[@TheChindoboi]

That tcr had the most aero wheels available. The point is still valid.

[@markr6383]

They spend half the segment discussing discs allowing better rim shapes and wider, faster tyres than a rim brake bike would allow.

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

It’s also not the point. Once we start comparing “aero rim brake bikes” you are entering the world of integration with rim brakes. That brings with it a whole myriad of proprietary solutions such as brakes mounted next to bottom brackets. Most people agree Jesse’s 2016 TCR represented a very high performing rim brake bike. Anyway, we made our point, if you still think there is a pure performance gain to running a rim brake bike in 2024, it’s on you.

[@brizziefritz4794]

I'm with Chris on the coaching thing. It's mindboggling that Jesse as a coach says that he won't sit through 45 minutes of race footage to see where a gap should have been closed. For most riders learning how to race will do way more in terms of getting results than increase their FTP by another 10 watts.

[@michaelnormandeau2655]

I bought my dream bike frame (rim brake) in early 2021, when disc frames were still often just rim brake frames with disc brakes bolted on, and hence not great. Also, rim frames still had some resale value. Within 18 months, everything changed. My frames value just vanished as everything became about disc, so I had a choice, sell for a huge loss and go disc, or double down on my frame, and enjoy what was still my dream bike build for many years. I chose the second, and love my rim brake, mechanical Campy 12 speed Bianchi Oltre XR4. With 28mm tyres on Winspace Hyper wheels, it's awesome. I know it's not the fastest, but I don't care. It doesn't look boring like most new bikes do either.😜

[@nattyhead5988]

Thank you.

[@somnumna2606]

As usual good banter rim V disc. I have both and like my disc brake. It simply is better to ride but spends more time in the bike shop than my rim brake bikes. I have invested a lot in my rim brake bikes and even had two custom made. I don’t race at my age anymore so not looking for the extra watts. My Parlee z Zero is 5.9kg…but it doesn’t matter anymore! The MAIN thing is to ride them. Love this show and respect you are professional riders but most of us are not. Keep up the great content.

[@thewattlife]

They are getting longer boys and I’m HERE FOR IT!!!

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

you're just saying that cause you need more content for the Z2 trainer sessions you have planned 😀 #4wkglife

[@DJMSydney]

12 months ago I transitioned from black road shoes to white coloured road shoes. During dry conditions a quick 30 second wipe with a Wet One every 2-3 rides keeps them looking pristine. Wet weather = black shoes and black socks.

[@alexdyke7176]

As an sl6 rider I’m riding 5000 str 28/30 on a 21mm internal width wheel that blows up to 30/31.5 and have absolute 0 problems with rubbing

[@AN98WA]

Me too. 28mm at the brake track, 30mm wide rims, 22mm Internal. Running tubeless 28mm with no rubbing.

[@skinnie88]

Which caliper ?

[@alexdyke7176]

@@skinnie88 I’m using cane creek ee works

[@al-du6lb]

Legend has it if you rub your rim brake caliper and squeeze your brakes 3 times, @durianrider will appear.

[@crack0n]

only when you run an sworks sl1,2,3,4 🤣

[@jasonmurphy5780]

That was epic!

[@seansims8805]

Super underwater comment 😂

[@robbchastain3036]

I don't worry about matching my socks to my kit. I just worry about matching my socks. 😀

[@ThomasAnselmi1337]

The first time you ever do a descent on rim versus disc instantaneously solves that question.

[@Kf1rr]

True, because modern rim brakes from 105 up on alu rim are miles better than 105 disk. I have bikes with both (Caad 13 disk 105, TCR disk 105, and Caad Optimo with rim 105) and on descents i much more prefer the rim brakes.

[@ThomasAnselmi1337]

@@Kf1rr that could be for you. As a rider that is well over 100kg but still put in over 10,000km last year, the difference was on the edge of life/death. This was Shimano Ultegra rim vs Shimano Ultegra Disc...the pucker factor on the rim was WAY higher.

[@jeffreyb.1657]

Simple...use whatever gets you out riding safely.

[@seansims8805]

You give me a filante I'll ride it....with my budget and age (55) I'm riding a 2014 focus izalco. ....I want new but this rig is wonderful 😊

[@gregmorrison7320]

I've been riding disc brake bikes since 2015, currently have four of them, honestly it takes about a minute to change brake pads and the only bleeding I've ever done is remove the screw at the top of the reservoir once every six months and check if there is a bubble and add a few drops of hydraulic fluid, tap the levers a few times and done, about a minute a side, it takes a lot longer to replace rim brake pads and they also need periodic alignment with the rim to be sure they are contacting evenly, it's not a valid argument and I really have to question just how incompetent people are with their bike maintenance.

[@ynie1]

I know. I really don't understand when people talk about maintenance. Plus, since it's a closed system, you don't need to bleed nearly as often as you would need to change brake cables. The only counter argument is if you're traveling with a bike, discs may get knocked around and need to be re-trued.

[@jamesbrickwood7414]

Rim brake rider here. A 2015 Focus Cayo w/ DA weighing just over 7kg. I’m totally open to a disk rake road bike. In fact I’d love to make the move. It’s not the discs that put me off but the other “progressions” that have come with the new modern road bikes. Integrated cables, one piece bar and stem, ‘aero’ proprietary seat posts (easily my most hated element of modern road bikes). All faff for a non racer like myself. I’m not left with many options, besides the Aethos (27.2 round seat post and semi integrated cables).

[@brasstinmancrazy]

See if you can ride someone's Ritchey Road Logic in rim brake or disc brake and you'd be surprised how it rides. I sold my titanium road disc bike and kept the Ritchey Swiss Cross as my all road bike as I kept reaching for that over anything else I have in the garage due it being so comfortable and fun to ride. I even swapped the same wheels and tyres across to test it on the same 60km loop and it felt just as comfortable as the Ti bike for much less. The Ti bike had semi integrated cables and the Ritchey external and TBH I don't even see the cables now and if and when I do have to replace anything it's quick, easier and cheaper to do than full integrated cables. My son is a bike mechanic and he said the amount of broken brake cables his replaced in full integrated systems is ridiculous and down right dangerous and said if you get something integrated get the under the stem system it's much less likely to kink and or wear the cables through but he still prefers to see semi integrated of external cables. Customers always get shocked when they're shown the damaged cables and then the bill to replace them.

[@nigelwilkinson-xg9us]

When you’re riding down hill, in the rain and you want to stop. Which braking system would you want to be on🤔

[@markm4880]

Rim brakes

[@benjaminurzua8100]

Rim brakes, they are consistent, less chance to lock a wheel and crash

[@dmitryhetman1509]

​@@benjaminurzua8100hydraulic should have better feedback so you will feel how much you can brake

[@Kazyole]

Last year I went from a cervelo rca to a factor ostro vam. 25mm tubeless GP5ks up to 30s (measured 32s on enve rims with a 25mm internal). The tire difference is honestly the largest noticeable change between the two bikes. The difference in comfort going up to a wider tire kind of blew me away honestly. I resisted discs for a while because I've always been a bit of a weightweenie, but the factor is faster and just more comfortable. I think in a lot of cases it's similar to the initial resistance that I (and I'm sure a lot of others) had to Di2. We have this sort of romantic notion of what a bike should be based on what bikes used to look like when we started riding, and it can be hard to get over that. I convinced myself that mechanical gears were a purer expression of a bike and that needing to charge a bike was an absurd notion. That the click of the shifter was more satisfying. That I couldn't afford the weight penalty, etc. But Di2 is just better. I tried it one time on a buddy's bike and immediately knew I wanted to switch. With tires I don't think the subjective feel difference is as stark as mechanical vs Di2 and the data on tire width impacting rolling resistance and aerodynamics probably hasn't been around long enough to override the years of conventional wisdom that skinny tires pumped to absolute hell are the fastest you can be. But it's inevitable at this point I think. People will come around on them not being slower. And once you ride 32s on a rough surface, you'll never want to go back to 25s imo. At least I don't.

[@joepak123]

This is interesting. I have the 2nd gen RCA rim brake version with Enve tubeless. I have latex tubes because I can’t stand the tubeless liquid mess and maintenance. I think it’s the same for disc brakes. I don’t live in a super hilly area and hardly ever ride in the rain. I also have mechanical 9100 Dura Ace which I absolutely love. The action and braking are really the peak of rim braking. It’s a reason why I’m still stuck on rim brakes. I admit the RCA is more heritage and looks than actual speed. I was faster on probably more comfortable on my old SL3.

[@Kazyole]

Agree the RCA is just a sexy bike. To the point where even though I don't ride it anymore, I can't bring myself to part with it. It is an odd thing. I like my factor more than the RCA by every criteria that matters to me. It's more comfortable. It's faster. I enjoy the 'locked in' feeling of riding an aero bike. But there's something just intangible about a frame like the RCA. As much as I love the factor, I'm not emotionally attached to it the same way I am with the cervelo.

[@ThomasAnselmi1337]

Di2 is the thing that I thought would never make a difference. And I absolutely would never ever go back... Even if you give me a free brand new top end frame of any choice I would instantaneously spend the money to put Di2 on it

[@thedownunderverse]

Agree on Di2. I jumped in on 12 speed (after a decade on Chorus 11 speed mechanical) and boy is it amazing. Never going back to mechanical on a roadie (11 speed XT mechanical on a flat bar however is very good but as soon as Shimano releases their next Di2 wireless MTB groups I’m all in as well)

[@Slow.Smooth]

Data on rolling resistance and aero have been available for over 20 years now.

[@simonq588]

I moved from rim brake TCR to a disc bike. I still have both bikes and keep telling myself they are both good bike and "I should take my TCR out sometime". But every time, I just keep taking my disc bike out and say to my old TCR: "maybe next time".

[@abhimawa1]

Confidence

[@ariffau]

Same. Also, my disc is 1kg heavier than my rim one. I still ride my disc more.

[@abhimawa1]

@@simonq588 just this morning I almost crashed onto a crazy motorbike rider. Riding in a busy city is full of surprises. Aside from being nimble, one needs stopping power, just in case some idiots show up in front of you suddenly.

[@constantinevellis9245]

Fun Fact: While rim braked bikes were still in the tour, Le Tour was won by a rim brake even when only one team ran rim brakes. The first disc brake win at the tour was when there was no team running rim.

[@Marltiod]

Yeah, but Pogacar was on that bike 😊

[@tuber6382]

The first e-bike in the tour will be the winner. Yep rim brake is faster

[@pennyblue6372]

yeah it had norhing to do with pog

[@dmitryhetman1509]

​@@tuber6382rim brakes can easily be faster, going disc imply some aero loss.

[@Zwooder_editz111]

Chris hit the nail on the head that it's all about choice. I like my rim brake bike and will continue to ride knowing full well that it isn't the fastest. The crap part is I know at some point in the future I will have to switch to disc brakes as rim brake frames and components will become harder and harder to find. Hopefully the Chinese brands will continue to support rim brakes but I have a feeling they will eventually abandon the technology as well.

[@gregleman6592]

That shot of your TCR had me searching for 2017 TCR frames lol. Such a beautiful bike.

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Agreed! Maybe give it a coupe of months and DM an offer to Jesse

[@gregleman6592]

@@ChrisMillerCycling Unfortunately, I am only 175 cm 😕

[@elbatch]

As an ex international junior rower I would just want a little rowing chat every week if I could. Rowing as such a national side to it like technique, training, pacing is different in every country and it's quit fascinating to hear how other people are doing it (and to learn how late some people are) Greets from France !

[@Gramkan]

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug, that’s the only reason people still talk about rim brakes and narrow tyres

[@xAudiolith]

That's crazy. I ride both because I'm light and don't want to mess around with disc maintainance anymore. Stop generalising.

[@discbrakefan]

@@xAudiolithOk so you ride them because you just don’t know

[@thiscocks]

@@discbrakefan He knows that no road bikes need disc brakes.

[@independentthought3390]

@@discbrakefan Or maybe because he hates the sound of disc brakes rubbing, or dealing with sticky pistons, or the hassle of bleeding?

[@discbrakefan]

@@independentthought3390 Maybe bleeding is actually easy and has to be done what… every 2 years? What has to be done with pistons? You’re full of misconceptions

[@thereeder5rs]

When it comes to a new bike vs. a new bike. Some are the same as me, "to upgrade from my rim bike, get the same quality or better, is way too much money". "Perhaps a used rim bike, newer makes more sense?"

[@occyman]

I raced rim brakes for 20yrs. I still have my old Colnago race bike with DAce 11speed. I went to disc 2yrs ago - 12spd Ultega. Never once had any disc rub and don’t have to do anything re brake blocks when I remove wheels etc. All it needs is brake pads once a year which is an easy job for even basic skills. When I ride my Colnago it’s harsh and not as nice to ride. My disc bike is 400g heavier and it’s way more comfortable and faster. And it’s ALWAYS white shoes and sox.

[@cewatkins4049]

The truest sentiment about bikes that "feel" fast will always be that people want bikes that feel like the bike they had when they were at their most fit.

[@lordkambing810]

I dont ride in the rain, and Roads here in Japan is perfect. So 25C 100psi with TPU for me. Wide tires and low pressure is good but it wears out too fast. Tubeless is paff. I want my bike to be set and forget type, not paffing around with fluids and shiet.

[@discbrakefan]

Sounds like a lot of misconceptions. All of that is wrong. You’d love life on 28mm tubeless at 65psi. Tubeless doesn’t flat. You don’t need to touch hydraulic fluid more than once every 2 years. You’re just making things up in your mind

[@lordkambing810]

@@discbrakefan I came from 28c tubless, with 60-70 psi, and it flats. lol, sprayed al over my frame. No thanks. Keep your expensive shiet for yourself. You aint riding outside enough mate. FACTS

[@discbrakefan]

@@lordkambing810 You sound like a big sook mate.

[@shindi2222]

Where in Japan are you? Where would you recommend riding in Japan? Thank you

[@lordkambing810]

@@shindi2222 I live in the country side. Perfect tarmac in the middle of nowhere.

[@richardhagedorn7421]

I love how mad all the rim brake fans are getting in the comment section💀💀

[@ynie1]

The salty tears are delicious.

[@gokaygs]

Post covid Rapha gear cyclists are feeling the fastest they ever have on the bike!!!!

[@tomasberka2124]

Full black kit here (matt black helmet, matt black shoes, matt black-rimmed sun glasses). Matt black bike. If not this clothes set, than the same but in white (can’t afford the same bike in white, unfortunatelly😂). But I do not mix colors of helmet, shoes & sunnies; I keep them in the same color, that’s what I wanted to say. Keep up the great show, guys!

[@julienhuxley4172]

Man listening to the boys rave about hot mix pavement and Thai roads makes me think I really need to invite them over. I thought Canada was a terrible place to cycle but this road surface talk has me fearing for the general wellbeing of our Aussie cycling cousins

[@ShawnIsBatman]

On the discussion of wider tires, I am 58 years old and grew-up in road cycling where the mantra was pumping tires up to insane pressures. It did take me quite a while to get used to the idea of both a wider tire (now on 28mm) and lower pressures. I had a big mental block that if I could detect any amount of give/flex from the tire having less pressure, I was sure that I was going to bottom-out the tire on the road and get a pinch flat. It is easy to brush past that mental block that some cyclists have, it took me a long time to get over that.... Now I can't envision running anything less than a 28 and I simply follow the Silca tire pressure calculator and ride very comfortably. If/when I upgrade my frame, I will definitely be looking at an endurance frame that can handle 30 or 32mm width tires.

[@82vitt]

I bet the majority of your generation serious riders all are suffering lower back issues, possibly shoulder/elbow issues, possibly Raynaud's, nevermind the additional fatigue from all the road buzz after something like a usual daily 50 mile traning ride.

[@thedownunderverse]

Dafuq does Raynauds have to do with it?

[@ashaw1016]

I've now got a Propel running 32mm gp5000 on it at 60psi and is so bloody comfortable on the terrible pothole riddled roads and I feel so much more confident on the corners

[@Dedicated2FitnessAUS]

Agree wider is faster. If you have power meter it doesn’t make up numbers.. less watts at same speed = less fatigue and more opportunity to ride further!

[@82vitt]

@@thedownunderverse It's an occupational disease caused by prolonged use of vibratory tools. Not much different from the vibrations that are transferred from road surface to the hands when riding a bicycle with tyres blown up to rock hard for hours nearly daily.

[@kjwagoner]

in the podcast you don't mention skin tension in your tire talk. 60 PSI in a 32m is the 100 psi of a 25m. its the same approximate tension. I've been on 30m on the road for 3 years. 55-60 psi is just slower than 48=50 psi because the rolling resistance is too much at the higher pressure. if you are in a fast group ride, areo just doesn't matter that much. I've averaged 23mph on 30m road tires and on 38m gravel tires in drop group rides. I've raced gravel on 38m tires and on 2.35 Mezcal MTB tires and a 100mm travel fox 32 fork, on the same 70 mile course that is 60% road and had the same 16.5mph average on both. It just doesn't matter. Skinny tires just don't offer any advantage in the real world. High pressures are a liabilty off of the track.

[@ynie1]

Great point. I don't think JC or Chris knows the science, they need to get Peak Torque or Dylan Johnson to walk them through.

[@DP-PhD]

Guillaume Martin LOOK blade + Apparently Cofidis went 'back to black' for the team bikes after first week of the Tour to save a little weight over the new Satin white scheme. I had wondered why they switched. Yes, he has retracted most of his statement, to basically saying it was a 'bit heavy', for stage 11 where he lost 45 secs to the Pog group. He has posted on his Instagram a video of the weight of his bike and it shows 7.23kg. He was definitely 'look'-ing for a reason to excuse his performance, ready to leave to a new team!

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Thanks for clarifying that!

[@dickieblench5001]

7kg is heavy

[@marcvb3364]

Guys I found the rowing chat much more interesting than gravel, didn't know it had so much depth to it, nice one!

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

HAHA!!! Jesse will be delighted reading this. Have to say, I really enjoyed asking him about it. So he was a national level rower, made a few national squads after leaving school but I think I'm right in saying had a back injury that killed his career. When I met JC, he was coaching rowing.

[@stuartdryer1352]

I actually expected my disc brake bike to be faster. My very light mildly aero rim brake bike seems about the same speed as my heavier more aero disc brake bike on mostly flat terrain. I really can't measure a difference on the same route with PM and HR monitor indicating similar efforts many times. Both have Ultegra Di2, 50 mm rims. Same Pirelli 28 mm tires that measure 30 mm on disc brake wheel and 29 on rim brake bike with narrower rim). TPU tubes. It could be I'm not fast enough to get the full aero gain on the disc bike, or more likely, maybe my position is slightly more upright. What is true is the disc brake bike is a lot more comfortable and the rim brake is easier to travel with. The lighter bike accelerates better. All in all, I prefer riding the disc. I like having both.

[@MazingerZX]

Just n+1 and own both rim and disc. You get best and worst of both sides, be right and wrong all the time, AND still love cycling. The drama is great for the soapbox.

[@jamestomlinson9679]

Best comment on here,Same here own both people spend more time arguing than riding

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

N+1 is always the correct answer 😘

[@faithwyar]

I’m not fast on a bike, but 100% on team disc just for the wider tyres. I’ll still be last to the cafe, but at least I’m comfy

[@PaganiZondaF650hp]

I’ve got 30/28mm combo on my rim brake bike with ca. 22mm internal rim width. If you look for the right frames, no need to go disc for wide tires

[@IlPinnacolo]

Why not just ride a full suspension mountain bike on 2.5s? Much softer. Alternatively, the couch in your home is even softer still. You could just ride that.

[@keatonhanson]

The boys yelling at us that disc brakes so much better, then Jesse does the full old man rim brake take of ‘white shoes, no good!’ 😂😂

[@pauldunne3094]

I have a Bianchi Oltre XR4 with Bora Ultra Tubular wheels and DA 11 speed for almost 5 years. Love it so much, looks (subjective) fabulous. I can service it including BB replacement etc myself. It is fast and so easy to live with. I have just purchased an S5 with 12 speed and Princeton Carbonworks 6560. Not as attractive (to my eye), noticeably heavier and soooooo much more difficult to live with in every sense but it is noticeably faster in every circumstance except a short ride with very steep climbs. I love both and will keep both but the S5 is faster and what surprised me the most is that it is more comfortable

[@MacLeanWright]

Would love to hear you chat about Lael Wilcox's ride around the world, she just completed riding across all of your neck of the woods, Australia! Thanks for the great weekly show as always

[@kevstephen9393]

I'm on 23mm tyres for the past 7.5 years, moving to 28mm during my bike build... Cant wait 😊

[@ynie1]

Wait till you try 32's. It's life changing.

[@cheeng1]

Ride quality change will be huge

[@KilometroFinal]

Loved the rowing chat! Didn’t know anything about it so this was very cool!

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Weirdly, I really enjoyed asking him those questions. Quick back story, he represented Australia on a few Junior teams, but had a back injury after school that ended his career.

[@iancreighton1]

Loved the discussion on the new bike. I am still on a rim brake bike and actually switched to a new frame last year. I was 50/50 on going to disc but in the end the ease of maintenance was more important for me than the performance benefits. I am though a 100% dyed in the wool MAMIL. Will switch to disk in a few years I reckon.

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Can't beat that maintained argument. Enjoy the new rim brake bike and maybe have another look in 4-5 years.

[@pierremaggi8661]

The wided tire and wheel is a good advantage of disc brake, but not an absolute one. The development of rim brake basically stopped because of disc brake. The latest génération, dura ace 9100, already could accommodate 28 mm tires, while almost no pros were using anything more than 25mm. Nothing to stop the next generation to reach 32mm+. Suddenly disc brake advantage is much less...

[@ondrejgrolmus5450]

What about you are not ruining your rim every time you brake, and should you ride a lot in hilly or even mountainous area you buy rims every other year.....

[@PaganiZondaF650hp]

@@ondrejgrolmus5450 if you brake a lot with carbon, disc is definitely the way to go. But with alloy, I’m sticking with rim brakes

[@Gianniz27]

Even 6800 Ultegra or 5800 105 clears 28mm, from 2015, in many frames.

[@xAudiolith]

@@ondrejgrolmus5450 simply do it as we've done it for ages. Run a set of alloy training wheels for your solo / training rides and a race pair for group rides and or races. Rim brake wheels are also cheap af.

[@out_spocken]

Yup. Im running 28's on my 2013 tcr. Though I like running the brakes with more gap as I have small hands so i want the brakes to grip when my hands are half closed not barely gripping with the tips of my fingers, so I've got more leeway. Greatest benefit of discs is stopping in the wet. And honestly...I'm more worried about the grip of my tires on the road and sliding off to keep me going so fast I need discs to slow me. Plus I almost never ride in the rain.

[@JohnSmith-ck5qk]

just to clear, at the same pressure, wider tires have lower rolling resistance, and higher pressures in general have lower rolling resistance (on a smooth road), so the fastest tire combo is something like 120PSI 32mm GP5000 tire. Now if you use those online tire calculators and set the pressures based on their recommendations, generally speaking the thinner tires have lower rolling resistance though the wider tires will have more tire drop, and thus are more comfortable. If you adjust pressure to have the same tire drop, than rolling resistance is basically the same no matter the tire width, the caveat being that there is a limit to how low you can drop the pressure on thinner tires without undue pinch flat risk. As another note, when it comes to aero, it should be noted almost all the top performing tour magazine test bikes used 25mm tires to get their results, so take that for what you will.

[@RylHango]

Thank you for the clarification, Jesse doesn't quite have it right maybe to appease the narrow tire crowd

[@Dedicated2FitnessAUS]

Jesse talks sense about discs . I was in the majority when 3T release the Exploro years ago . An aero disc brake “gravel” bike before gravel was a thing . I was looking at doing some longer multi day rides and my 2010 Trek Madone could only fit 25mm tires . In 2018 ended up with a 3T Exploro. Fits up to 40mm tyres . Mates laughing at my fat 30mm GP5000 tubeless . Tyre size was the benefit of disc brakes . Wider IS faster! Comfortable with discs having MTBs, they worked as expected. Responsive, less fatigue over time and better modulation. 30mm was as big as GP5000 went in 2018, as soon as 32mm were available boom on they go . Priority for me selecting a disc brake bike. 1. Wider tyres available, faster, more comfortable and better puncture protection. 2. Aero frame . Free power no mater how fast you go . 3. Disc brakes . Better feel, they stop . The maintenance issue is BS for me . I’m handy and can fix anything. Discs are LESS maintenance than rim brakes on our old Team Madone that was under the bottom bracket OR any TT bike with proprietary rim brakes . Agree stock rim brakes are easy to maintain. Back in the day I did all my own car maintenance, oil, service, even gearbox rebuild etc… no way today !!! I’m taking the car for a service, even the basic one. If you can’t maintain your disc brakes, take it to a bike shop ! They need your business! These days when asked I recommend Disc brakes and Electric shifting for newbies . New bikes are easier to ride, faster and more comfortable. As a 60+ bike rider I still want free power, (aero frame and wide tyres) and be able to stop when my hand are wrecked from 8hours ride. If I can comprehend that aero and wide tyres are faster, from research, but the “rim brakers” are in denial, let ‘em be ! pump up to 110psi… line your helmets with foil and keep stretching those cables!

[@eto2352]

27:21 2014 SuperSix Evo Hi-Mod - new $9750 account for inflation that is $12,940 today. Bikes were always expensive, inflation is a bitch. Milk used to cost $1. Reverse it: Jesse's Tavelo is $5000 (2024) in 2014 dollars would be $3770. What could you buy in 2014 new? 2014 Cannondale CAAD 10 Black Inc $4100 Equal dollars, accounting for inflation- Is the Tavelo a better value today than the CAAD 10 in 2014? Specialized is selling the Tarmac SL7 Sport for $3800 Definitely some great things about rim brake bikes but the math ain't mathing if you think stuff was cheaper. Life just is more expensive for everything unfortunately.

[@craigpavia8943]

Yes another segment that should be centered on "professional" or sponsored riders and bikes vs. what an average enthusiast should consider based on terrain where they ride. The fact that we are talking about $4500 Specialized SL7 Comp (Di2 105, discs, integrated cockpit and subpar wheelset) versus a "pre-owned" rim brake bike (28mm tires), 10-11speed Dura-Ace or Sram Red mechanical set up and a premium carbon wheelset can be had for 50-80% less is a NO BRAINER considering that one fall...even a drop at a coffee stop can 100% kill your frame or cockpit. I don't understand the economics. I watch guys "dump" all over 9W on training rides in "pro level" gear/kit with no chance of ever racing as a supported rider and yet that guy will drop his VISA and be back the next week. Between GCN, DA, GCPerf et al you are just a bunch of shills and some don't even know it. This sport should be easy. I don't understand why you'd want to bleed brakes, change disc pads, deal with squeaks (way more than rim squeaks), tether to a USB outlet, unable to change position (cockpits disasters) and worst of all be stuck with using a local bike shop for EVERY slight repair just to go pretend to be a pro racer?

[@jonphotos8631]

White helmet, white socks, white shoes! Unless ur ridding gravel than u can do different color shoes and socks.

[@25jmarch]

in the maintenance conversation, I've learned a lot about my bike and how to take care of it on my own with my bike shop being hundreds of kilometers away. Being forced into this work has been an education and now I quiet enjoy spending time maintaining the bike.

[@Miles_and_Motions]

One thing to consider in the weight difference is the size of the tires has an equivalent weight increase. So some of the total weight difference between a rim break system and a disk brake system is the fact that you are running on tires, which are heavier as a consequence of them being wider. For example the difference between a 25mm gp5000 and a 32mm gp 5000 is 75 grams per Tyre. That is 150 grams right there. So, if you choose the benefit of the wider tire (I think you should), that just means you accept that weight “penalty”

[@ryanengstrom5038]

All this talk about the wider tires, it of course was mentioned that a wider tire is more comfortable, but what they didn't mention was the energy saved not being bumped around the whole ride, that fatigue build up on a harsh 25mm tire at 100psi plus is sapping valuable energy so it could be argued wider tires at low pressure not only has better rolling resistance, but the that fatigue is mitigated resulting even more free speed, especially in a crit where stress levels are higher.. I also want mention obviously Jesse and Chris are elite racers and performance is top priority, but for the weekend warrior who may not race is still out smashing it with their buddies, and if they think they dont care about perforce their crazy, and I would even argue that their are more financially able weekend warriors that have a an ftp of 250 and can afford an SL8 or a madone or what have you that still care about going as fast as they can. I imagine its more of those kind of riders that listen to this show then the Elite 350 watt FFTP Cat 1/ grade A rider, dont under estimate The Weeknd warrior!

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

That’s a great point that weekend warriors CARE about performance, and I’m so glad you said that out loud. There seems to be this tone, especially on KZbin, that riders such as yourself who don’t necessarily pin a number on are all just tootling around from cafe to cafe. I totally agree with you, every bunch of mates I see out on the weekend are trying to smash each other … and it’s great. Well said mate, and keep it up 🦾

[@darrene8036]

Absolutely, me and my mates all raced at a high(ish) level in the late 80’s early 90’s. We’ve done the racing and life has moved on for us but we still are all looking for every advantage to kick each others heads in on a Saturday morning. Followed up by the cafe stop 3hrs later. Everyone is entitled to seeking out performance 👍. And agree with the wider tyres less fatigue comment, our roads are crap here in the UK!

[@ynie1]

Absolutely. I'm adding about 10 to 20 minutes extra per ride after switching to wider tires due to the lack of fatigue. It adds up so fast over the course of a few months.

[@gitgudchannel]

I recently bought this camera after seeing the NorCal video on it and I've almost figured out the mount at this point. At first it was slipping on the slightest road bumps but after adding some carbon paste to the gopro prongs it's 95% where I need it to be. Also you don't need a long selfie stick, I use a 8cm long pole which makes the camera stick out just enough to clear my bike computer. But yeah it's still a bit hacky and will slip every now and then. But for a hobbyist rider who wants to share this footage on instagram or whatever it's super fun and not too hard to use either.

[@georgehagstrom4022]

You guys have nailed it on the rim versus disc issue. Only thing I would mention as someone who fits more into the category that would benefit from rim brakes (not doing mass start IRL races anymore, works on my own bike, still rides a lot) is that maybe the brands that still make rim brake bikes should switch from short reach to mid reach, would fix the tire clearance issues. Being able to run wider tires is something that every type of rider could benefit from, even those that don't want the additional hassle of disc brakes.

[@MainUkraine]

Tubeless is definitely better than Butyl but you can't say tubeless is better than latex because the rolling resistance of GP5000s with Latex tubes is lower than many tubeless setups.

[@michaelevanoff5885]

I am not sure why rim brakes can't be made to fit wider wheels/tires. The exact frames could have rim brake mounts. The better speed has nothing to do with braking power.

[@matkrek]

They cool but disc brake maintenance keeps bike shops alive

[@lawnchair4]

100%

[@user-qx4bp5rf3n]

Perhaps increasing the width of the brake is a problem for headtube aero

[@johnlowkey359]

Speed has a lot to do with braking power. If you can come to a stop faster, you can spend more time at a higher speed. Faster braking means faster average speed.

[@Roadbikerider79]

I think the problem is the length of the "arms" of the rim brake caliper. They become flexy and you get brake chatter. The direct mount calipers make it better but there is a reason cyclocross bikes used cantilever brakes before adopting discs.

[@JuanAsencio-jc2ms]

I just don't need a new bike, or need disc brakes, or need wider tires. Industry should stop trying to sell me more cr@p to save a handful of watts. #savetherimbrake ❤❤ your show!

[@matkrek]

The industry is trying to get back to covid boom profits

[@ynie1]

We don't need any of this stuff. It's all want, which is completely valid.

[@scottcopplestone1606]

I like my rim brake bike, but I love to go fast. (Cervelo r3 durace, 50mm hyper wheels) The big problem I have is trying to find $10-20k to get a decent disc bike.. I have seriously considered the Tavelo, which is becoming an option based on cost/ weight as most main brands are heavy and expensive. I enjoy the content on the Nero show, cheers

[@cshowe80]

Just to chime in here on the SuperSix EVO chat. A super six EVO from 2015 which I own and have upgraded every bit of weighs in at 6.23Kg on 25c tires. It is lighter, it was cheaper but it is not faster. Unless going uphill over 10% gradients. I also don’t ride it over my 2023 EVO WITH 30c tires. It sits on my indoor trainer

[@ynie1]

Same. I have a 2015 Felt F1 that weighs 6.7 kg. Absolutely loved that bike, but since I picked up a disc-brake bike that's 7.8 kg, I haven't ridden the Felt in over a year outside. After a while, I took off all the parts off the Felt that didn't have to do with shifting, and sold it on ebay for some extra cash. Now that bike sits as my permanent trainer bike.

[@mrcha0s]

'It's all good. It's just what do you want." I agree. Ride what you want. There's still plenty of choices, they're just different choices from before. I own both rim and disc bikes ranging from 2007-2017 (8 bikes total), and only compete for local KOMs or against myself. So to me 20 watts saved isn't worth the price of a newer bike. But I'm not going to fight someone who wants that...

[@and2244rew]

Mountain bikers still scratching our heads over this disc vs rim debate.

[@ynie1]

Haha. Could you imagine someone trying to brake on a rim-brake e-mountain bike.

[@savagepro9060]

@@ynie1 it's for things like mountain bikes, motorcycles and ebikes that disc is preferred and made for, silly

[@ikkakugenkai]

The next step is to test a high quality aero RIM BRAKE frame with 32C clearance (yes they exist) from china with an electronic rim brake groupset like the wheeltop or the upcoming magene groupset with some nice wheels on. Im still team disc brake but would like to see someone finally build a bike like that and properly compare it.

[@SamuelBlackMetalRider]

You’re right! You can easily get 30mm wide carbon rims for rim brakes!! Recent Rim brake frames (also LOOK, TIME & PINARELLO) can fit 30c tires and these frames have aero tweeks. So there is ABSOLUTELY the possibility to have a light, slightly aero, rim brake bike with wide rims & 30c tires. People talking as if rim brake bakes were all old with round tubes and narrow tire clearance are just ignorant / wrong

[@ciprian7]

@@SamuelBlackMetalRider I had Bianchi Oltre xr4 rim brakes, Dura Ace, Cadex wheels, 6,7kg, was riding like you expect but i prefer my new Ritte Esprit disc, room for 34mm tires, long wheel base, a little heavier but more enjoyable and comfortable, the one area where the Oltre is superior is when you accelerate or steep hills

[@SamuelBlackMetalRider]

@@ciprian7 my rim brake baby is a revamped Colnago C50: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rJbRi2Cbd8t6fNUsi=z9VgWq1Zs5dOTQyI

[@henry5917]

And how are the carbon rim brake wheels In the wet,in the mountains?? Lmao. Goalposts are always moving with yall. Just rise already.

[@johnlowkey359]

Low end bikes are more than enough to get people into the sport. Alloy w/ carbon forks, 8sp, 28mm clearance, and rim brakes for less than $1000 exist for the people who want to ride with minimal maintenance and little care for marginal gains. IMO if you want a high performance, lightweight bike, with simple design (no internal routing), and rim brakes, I would go for a Titanium bike. Make a bold statement that you don't give a fuck about aerodynamic tubes, and get a frame that will outlast you. You wont need a torque wrench, and you don't have to worry about the metal to carbon bonds failing.

[@uncleyemen]

My current bike is alloy w/carbon fork, mechanical shifting/brakes, billed as gravel but works as an all-road. It was under $1000 USD and while I'm planning on upgrading it's more than sufficient for my training rides and I don't have to worry about extensive maintenance or stress about breaking/cracking/scratching something.

[@fsilveiramg]

I own and love my rim brake bike just because I couldn't afford a better/newer bike with disc brake version. Of course mine suits me well, but I don't try to find justifications for it to be more reasonable. It was a budget thing, but clearly rim brake is past now. I was rewatching the 2020 TOkyo Olympics road race, wich happened in 2021, and I was amazed how only 3 years ago many pro's were on rim brake, and now no one is. The change was so sudden if you think about it.

[@Stuey001]

Sam Laidlow was born in England, grew up and lives in France and represents France as an athlete… not an Aussie ;)

[@ulrimi30]

Living in a flat area with mostly good roads, ride both 28 and 25, the 25's are more fun. Snappier, livelier, though I concede the 28's might be slightly faster. But they feel more like I'm driving a tank instead of a bike.

[@user-qx4bp5rf3n]

You’re the rider. You decide how you ride. Just lean the bike more and put more power in the pedals.

[@ronalddriver8628]

The rim brake and narrower tire vs disc and wide tire argument is the same argument mountain bikers have already hashed out. Mtb’ers have already adopted wider tires and discs. Mtb’ers since then have learned to adopt change. Just look at the geometry changes in XC bikes. XC bikes are getting more travel, slacker geometry, and wider rims and tires. I love road riding too, but c’mon until recently, road bikes haven’t changed. There weren’t options back in 2015 so, what’s the difference? Oh no, you need to learn something.

[@BadTanLines]

I've been cycling since 2006 and white shoes white socks and white helmet has always been the look. Even when white bar tape and white saddles were the thing, white shoes and white socks were always THE look.

[@gordonconrod7628]

Now tell Durian Rider and get it through his thick skull LOL

[@joekawasaki]

A larger volume tire will feel harder at a lower pressure! 80 psi on a 30mm tire feels like 110 psi on a 25mm. With discs my rim brake bike can get me up the hill faster because it's lighter by 2 lbs but braking & control on my new one in a fast descent, is a night & day difference! I keep thinking I'd still ride my 2013 Dura-Ace Madone but it's just not happening. Just the difference in comfort with the wider tires is huge! I now have a rim brake bike for sale for the disc haters!

[@DaveCM]

Not hardly. Can I ask how you decided that?

[@patrickcrump897]

I’m sorry but this just isn’t true. I’ve run both 30 and 25mm tyres on same wheels and same bike and same roads at 85 psi and the 30mm tyres are sooooo much more comfortable. They just are

[@steviedee9344]

I think you have it backwards mate.

[@lawnchair4]

Beware of disc brake lockup! Even pros can’t control them

[@RyonBeachner]

@@lawnchair4surely you’re being facetious 😂

[@robbchastain3036]

I appreciate your conversation and exploration of the benefits and differences of rim-brake and disc-brake bikes. And my two centavos would be to just enjoy and make the most of what you're running today, with hopes and dreams of upgrades or a new bike tomorrow. And I am at peace with it all because at age 64, I'm figuring I'll get sponsored in the gravel retiree class and get my bikes for free. And maybe fly first-class, too. 😀

[@leomaduro8661]

As a life-time cyclist and motorcyclist I never complained when we got our hands on disc brakes on motorcycles, great development. It should not be different with bicycles, but it did not go that way, with some reasons to take into account. Firstly, on a bike the brakes have to be really precise because the annoying sound of a not perfect position of the brake pads will kill your ride; on a motorcycle you don't even hear it... They had to fix that. Weight was an issue, but not anymore. Next, purchasing a new bike, that certainly will have disc brakes, depends on what you wish. I did not buy a new bike in years because I needed my money for other things and on top of it I have a nice collection of vintage bikes. If you don't race, all those arguments about aero and watts being saved are totally irrelevant. The same goes for the debate about tubes or tubeless. If you are a pro rider, you get everything done for you. The big difference is for other racers who are not pros and have to take care of their own bikes. They are the ones who buy a big chunk of first-rate road bikes and to them all of this matters. So, everybody figure out if they care to bother according to where they position themselves. Back in the day, when I was a racer, at a very moderate level, I bought the top end bikes I still own, rim brakes and all. I will buy disc brakes anytime I will decide to get myself a bike of these days and will not be whining about the quality.

[@sebastianm2381]

It's an absolute myth that the rim profile can't be altered on a rim brake wheel. The brake track doesn't have to be a dead flat surface. It wasn't in the past in the early days of aluminium rims and in fact I have a set of HED carbon tubulars from more than 15 years ago which do not have a flat brake track but instead are perfectly toroidally shaped to form a perfect teardrop together with the tire. The rim has to have the required heat resistance and obviously it has to provide enough friction so a brake pad can actually stop the wheel - but that's about all you need. If the brake track is not perfectly flat, it's gonna take a few hard braking manoeuvers and the pad will have conformed to the rim's shape. It's just a piece of rubber after all.

[@sean9820]

2017 rim brake Venge with 28's tubeless here. I would NEVER ride anything less than 28's or tubes again...as for rim or disc it all comes down to money and budget. Tire width>Aero>Weight>Brake Style

[@davidlilja9180]

After 10yrs on a 61cm Cervelo RS, I stumbled on a 61cm RCA, Stateside, during the pandemic for a song. The '25 Amy's UCI GF WCs had just been announced. Only the last rimbrake S5 would be a smarter choice for me, after 50yrs of riding. On the RCA I can run 21mmID rims with 23/25mm tyres whilst holding the rule of 105 inside TriRig calipers. That S5 also has the same tyre width limits. At over 60 do I want a future filled with chasing the next expensive stead, or just jump on a ride? R9100 is the top spec for rim-brakes as R9200 invested no more into rims. Rotor's oval rings also confine me to 9000, 'inner round' rings. It wears narrow Cervelo aerobars on a 140 stem, and a 'Fast Forward' mounted short saddle for my positional aero gains, 80% of any aero package! Hence my recent move from 177.5/180s to 165s, too. Cya at Amy's, Jess. Good luck with your top 25% finish to return next year to ride in the green n gold yourself! Wanna a rainbow jersey yourself; perhaps helping someone else win?

[@rolandmg1]

It’s not about rim vs disc, it’s about aero vs non aero. My Ridley Noah rim with 28mm tubs is as fast as my disc version. On the crappy roads where I live the bike with the tubulars is the more comfortable ride and I don’t get any punctures like I do on the tubeless set up. I hate riding my disc bike as it looks so ugly and I want to ride something I like looking at.

[@markbrown3862]

Anther great video. I still ride rim brake bike and the biggest problem for me is that I can only fit 25mm tires due to my frame

[@neemmachine]

I saw months and months ago that Blummenfelt was joining Jayco Allula. The giant sponsorship being the connection between the two

[@timtaylor9590]

i ride everyday, imo tubeless may solve a small problem of getting flats while riding but create a bigger problem when it doesnt seal plus the mess and weight. im ok with flatting once every 2 months and changing a tube, vs messing with sealant and still have to carry tubes and co2. even if i was a pro and the mechanic took care of all that mess i would still want the faster set up

[@nochancecw]

I put on this pod cast while i am upgrading my tires from 28mm to 30mm gp5000's. Usong hyper gen 2, woth 21mm internal. 28's were about 29.5-30mm wide. The 30's are 31mm wide, a bit less areo looking peofile. But im going from 73-75psi to 60-63 psi. Pretty happy about this. For the classic riders, get a specialized Aethos with a super light frame, get a crazy low weight of gen 3 1200g wheels, and youll be kicking around 6-7kg with 60psi tires. Youll have a blast.

[@chillipepper83]

Jessie, love the new bike and “good chat” but… Like Chris with his reserve wheels, there are tyre sizes that are optimised for different rims which is proven. I would love to see you test F&R 28s, 30’s and 32’s against each other holding the same power around centennial park? (Optimised with the correct air pressure for each) Running a test against your TCR is great against bike frames but not tyres. Equally, 90% of world tour riders with disc brakes are on 28’s still including Ineos etc. 👍

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Great points

[@michaelgraycycling]

Damn thought we was over the disc and rim brake chat. 40mins of it 😢

[@josephparris4161]

rim brake bikes are good enough for the majority of the cycling population that dont ride in the mountains or elite racing, most riders with only really brake in traffic and junctions which disc brakes are overkill. second hand top end rim brake bikes from 5 years ago are more than half the price of the modern counterparts and for most people do more than enough performance, regardless of the obvious disadvantage of running rider types

[@supakidgalaxy]

Having owned only disc brake bikes up until recently… I enjoy my new to me rim brake bike the most. It just looks so cool & it feels great. I do miss the disc brakes on descents & I hope the market will continue to support the rim brake option in the future. Choice is good. I am a for fun rider chasing my own PRs and fitness & a break from reality haha. It would be so sick to have a new gen madone with rim brakes that would hopefully be cheaper. That being said some companies are offering modern rim brake frameset such as blackheart cycles, ritchey, standert among other brands... Sadly they are not at a cheaper price point Than their disc counterparts.

[@ricardostao]

Awesome talk guys. I don't get it people comparing you a Cade media, they don't practice what they preach, they all about selling the idea of affordable bike stuff and always melt and use only the most expensive cycling brands available.

[@luisfernandorios2004]

37:25 how about: "my bike is still great, I don't race, I just ride and I see no point in spending $10-15K for the modern day equivalent and I am at peace with that".

[@kieranbarry8193]

I use the go3 for vlogging and it’s great. It’s there, just waiting on my chest until something happens and then I can make a quick clip until the next interesting thing. It’s great! My advice is to get rid of the pendant wedge, which is hopeless and get a third party 3D printed one that gives a much better angle

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Nice Kieran, that's petty much how I use it now as well. ps. going to screen shot this comment and send it to Jesse 😄

[@lebasnems]

Interesting episode, but i think Jesse mixes up some of the concepts in the tire width discussion.

[@user-qx4bp5rf3n]

Please elaborate

[@RylHango]

Exactly, wider tires have significantly better rolling resistance at similar pressures, he's hesitating to admit it or maybe he's ignorant of the science

[@ynie1]

@@RylHango It's faster, but he's definitely mixing up the science. They need to get Peak Torque or Dylan Johnson on to properly explain it. For example, wider tires are not thicker, they're actually thinner which results in less rolling resistance for the same puncture protection.

[@mikew466]

A Canyon Aeroad with Ultegra Di2 is arguably competitive with the top end bikes. You give up a little in weight, but not enough to cost you a race outside a hill climb. But while $5,000 to $6000 US is considered mid-grade, it is still pretty expensive.

[@kadenlindsey358]

the feeling of going faster on narrower tires is like blindfolding someone and putting them in a cheap car from 2002 and asking them how fast you are driving vs putting them in a brand new luxury car. The luxury car will dampen the vibrations from the road and makes you more comfortable but it will *feel* slower due to the lack of all the other forces/accelerations caused by the vibration.

[@xAudiolith]

That's nonsense

[@calmprn7165]

Is it ? Speed is relative

[@thedownunderverse]

This is well put. Very true

[@thedownunderverse]

@@xAudiolithnup its on point

[@kadenlindsey358]

@@xAudiolith how? Drive a 1999 honda civic at 100mph and then drive a new mercedes at 100 mph. The difference of the harshness of the ride will be felt.

[@keatonhanson]

Glad you spoke of the maintenance of discs. For me that’s where they turn me off. Performance is fine, but never blows my head off. There’s always something with discs. Rubbing slightly. Need new pads etc. and the parts and labor get expensive. I always feel more nimble on my rim brake bike. And it needs so much less care

[@JamesErv]

And God forbid you need to change your stem length. 20 minutes for rim, all day for integrated disc

[@SamuelBlackMetalRider]

N+1 bikes: I have a VENGE & ENVE MELEE both SRAM RED etap and I also have a COLNAGO C50 rim brakes 11s Super Record. Love all of them for different reasons. And I’m building a superlight rim brake climbing bike sub 5,5kgs with 11s SRAM RED 22. And I will love it too.

[@davido8086]

Keep the tcr as a spare bike when your modern bike is in the shop. That’s what I did and it has came in handy a lot more than thought. I changed the seat on my new bike and now it needs a full tune up at the bike shop 😂

[@mythical7thgear]

Most do not have the finances to compare the performance difference and they are not racing. The older bike has plenty of performance envelope for mortals. It's not just the expensive initial purchase but the running costs of consumables are higher. I know a lot of folk that can not dish out 2 Grand let alone 10. As a mechanic and fitter I can assure you that the vast majority of people do not fall into the category of elitist. Unfortunately the industry needs new tech to survive...

[@BreakawayB]

Throughly enjoyed the rowing conversation at the end. ❤

[@Ian-Saxon]

Great discussion lads. I’m a proper old fashioned rider….23-25mm clinchers, mechanical rim brake groupsets. I get everything you are saying, but for me, the biggest negative of modern bikes is they are just plain ugly: awful steerer and stack aesthetics, bent in levers, calipers and discs are not nice looking objects, wheels choked up with spokes and frames all look the same. Bloated tyres. If we could have Colnago C40 and Record groupset aesthetic on a modern set up then I’m in.

[@matkrek]

Don’t forget proprietary everything

[@thcpills]

100% agree. Aesthetically... nothing beats lugged steel. The bike I enjoy riding the most and most aesthetically pleasing, that I own (I own several including a full carbon build), is my NJS build. No brakes, no gears, no faff... Wouldn't be my choice to do centuries on it (although doable), but that's not it's purpose.

[@dickieblench5001]

I agree I still wince seeing a massive ugly rotor spoiling the beautiful aesthetic of a front wheel

[@Leo-ii8nb]

I own a used rim break aero bike. The frame looks pretty good and the back breaks are hidden near the bottom bracket. Shaving my legs for the 1st time, aero socks and a really good skin suit would probably get me the W saved by a new aero bike.

[@savagepro9060]

The trouble is all that the excessive doping is finally going to Kristian's HEAD . . . Tour de France Champion at 30 years old, and not only that, but winning as soon as 2028? 🤣😂😅😆😁😄

[@madyogi6164]

Bha, ha, ha. Yes, June 2024 and I built yet another rim-brake bike on a road, aero frame! Will I sell it? Easily. Do I wanto to sell it? Nope... It will end on my wall, when I won't be able to push the pedals through...