Roy Rant: Anvil Ring DOES NOT Mean Quality!

[@bobhumphries3998]

Great info Roy. I started with a Harbor Freight anvil. I worked my butt off trying to move metal. Looked for a used anvil, but everyone thinks they are worth their weight in gold. I bought a 100lb TFS anvil new and it serves me well. Blacksmithing is a hobby to me, I'm 66 years old and really enjoying it. Thanks for posting your videos.

[@bartweijs]

The ring of an anvil, and the pitch, is actually indeed just the harmonics of a block of steel in a certain shape. However, that's *not* why you should check the ring of an anvil tip to toe. If there is a casting flaw, welding flaw or delamination of the faceplate, the tone or pitch of the anvil will change suddenly over a couple of centimeters/ inch. This is a big problem for a working anvil. The tone of the ring isn't really that important, as ductile iron anvils do exist and have a very deep tone, while forged hardened tool steel anvils have a very high tone. However, the tone or pitch should be fairly uniform tip to toe.

[@stokkelandsmia1631]

this ^^ is especially true for forge welded older anvils .. if an old anvil does not ring then there is a crack delamination or other flaws usually not always thou ...

[@kensmapleleafretirement]

Good chat. I always say one man's crappy tool is another man's dream tool. Thanks for the video and chat.

[@rabadgett]

Thank you for clearing that info up for us! You break things down so well for us beginners I really appreciate you raking the time to help us out!

[@shadowcastre]

Here's my experience & 2 cents.. 1) Size does not play into the rebound or ring test. 2) Rebound is an indicator of hardness. 3) The ring test is an indicator of continuity and the material the anvil is made from. Thanks for the video...

[@wayneheitz8390]

I started forging on an old sledgehammer buried into a stump then found an old bolster plate from a punch press. Made some nice things on both made a few dollars and bought an anvil and have been making my own tools as I go. Like Roy said they are tools. Utilize what you can to do the job you need to do to develop skills and get better as you go. We can all wish for our ideal shop.

[@glenndarilek520]

Good points on the ringing. But for the ball bearing test, the mass of the objects makes some difference as you say, but with an anvil vs. a ball bearing, the mass of the anvil is so much greater, that it is not a factor. The ball bearing test IS a test of hardness. The Leeb Rebound Hardness test is based on this.

[@ChristCenteredIronworks]

I will be doing a ton of testing on this exact subject In the upcoming videos.. Just waiting on the testing supplies to get here :-) in the testing that I've seen there is never any controlled tests just "let's drop a ball bearing on it and say it's good or not " lol...hopefully I can through video put some of the contributing factors that make a good anvil vs bad up for discussion :-) watched a Amish man at quadstate a few years ago walking around testing animals that were sitting on the ground for sale with a ball bearing. As I watched him and kind of followed him around to see what he was doing I could see him drop the ball bearing on quite a few what would be consider premium anvils and saying to himself "nope that's a bad one" ... I laughed at this because all the anvils he tested for ring and rebound seemed to work pretty fine in the back of people's truck beds when they were later sold. So hopefully with some testing I can help people make proper buying decisions and not just listen to old wise tales.

[@ghmakes7853]

I thought the same, Joey Van Der Steeg did a great video a few years ago demonstrating that his tiny peddinghaus gave almost exactly the same rebound as the full size version.

[@mountaincrittercreations2596]

Very good info thanks. Right now I'm stuck with a piece of railroad track it will ring like a bell but sometimes I think I'd be better off with a big rock lol

[@ChristCenteredIronworks]

Keep at it and you will be able to upgrade :-)

[@page76metalcraft19]

Yep my Fisher "pre eagle" has almost no ring however it pushes back like a beast and also gets 85-90% rebound with a ball bearing

[@ChristCenteredIronworks]

Thank you for taking the time to watch and comment :-)

[@page76metalcraft19]

@@ChristCenteredIronworks ... Always do whenever I can!

[@RyanSmith-ye4vj]

Isnt rebound a fallacy too, that was originally used to test whether a wrought iron anvil has a steel top plate?

[@page76metalcraft19]

@@RyanSmith-ye4vj I personally do not believe rebound is a fallacy 100% and let me tell you why.. I actually made my own post anvil out of a metal pipe filled with pea gravel with a 25 lb piece of 4140 round used as the anvil head. basically the head sits on top of the gravel in the pipe and sticks out of the pipe a couple inches. For fun I did a rebound test on it before I heat-treated the piece of 4140 anvil head. The rebound was about 30 to 40%. After heat treat... The ball bearing rebounded 90-95%.. completely blew my mind. Therefore I believe there's definitely something to the rebound test.

[@anvilflyforge2965]

Page76 Metalcraft correct hardness plays a huge role in rebound as well as mass but mass only comes into play once you start dropping larger things onto it. You could have a 50lb anvil that is hard and rebound with a ball bearing would be good. Drop a 20lb sledge on it and there will be little rebound. Ringing has more to do with a homogenous piece than anything else. A bell with a large open crack will reduce how much it rings. A solid steel bar held up by a small string will ring like a bell. Tone is dependent on many things but ringing at all is more about a solid piece than anything

[@justinbraun8785]

Watched your whole series on this anvil and..... Ordered one. I've been forging knives for about a year now using a railroad section as a anvil. It's done ok for me but I've grown to know it's limitations. I did my first forge weld with it. But drawing the billet out how I wanted proved harder than it should have been. So, now I try this one for blade smithing. Thanks for the info and I subscribed!

[@SuperiorEtchworx]

Thanks for the info Roy. It seems to me that the "tests" are good only for the type of anvil that they are designed for. I have a piece of universal column that is fairly soft but rings like crazy without sound deadening. It weighs 70 kilos though so it works really well as an anvil and vise mount. I have a 10 kilo jewellers anvil with a 12mm hardy hole that some would think useless but, in combination with my piece of column, I can get a lot of work done. Those 66lb anvils have reached Australia along with some larger brothers and I will invest in one soon.

[@GWIRailroad]

Good one Roy!! Some time it is quit confusing, we look for anvil with a great ring. Then we do all kinds of things to make it stop ringing. LOL!! Wayne

[@salleecreekworkshop]

I didn't know about quieting an anvil harmonics. I have had my anvil for over 40 years and never gave it a thought. It is quieter on the stand mounted than it is loose. I have to get a magnet and find my sweet spot. I was told over 40 years ago, by an old blacksmith, that the ball bearing test was meant to test if the anvil had a steel top. He pulled out a ball bearing and checked my anvil when I got it. I wish I bought anvils for an investment in the 70's and 80's when they were dirt cheap.

[@whiskeyjim4126]

I do mostly metal fabrication type stuff so it's used a lot as a solid base for mild steel riveting plates and hardy tools. This anvil had been great in that use.

[@erikcourtney1834]

Glad that this is cleared up for everyone. Well done Roy. I could get into a few story’s about these myths with people. But these test will tell you things about an anvil if done correctly. Just walking around with a bearing and a hammer checking anvils isn’t I proper test like you said.

[@tobystout7363]

I have one of those small 66lb anvils heading my way, should be here tomorrow. Hopefully it holds up.

[@ChristCenteredIronworks]

It will hold up pretty well in my opinion..

[@20mcarroll02]

I really liked mine. I used it for about 6 months to see if I liked a double horn over my single horns, without dripping the coin on a much larger and more expensive one. It works great. I would suggest dressing the hardy hole when you dress your edges. I think Roy touched on the subject in a prior video.

[@trevorjonasen3251]

Hey, not that it matters too much but some of these anvils actually com back with 80-90% rebound and quite a hard face like if you hit the edge with your hammer you will leave a kiss mark on your hammer itself. The one you have there is most definitely defective. Obviously due to the price point there is poor QC in their factory. I have one where the majority of the face is 80% rebound and won't take dents even from a good miss-strike but there is a section that is only around 60% rebound and will take dents but those have to be from a decent blow. I agree with you that these are budget anvils and perfect for a beginner and I greatly appreciate you making the videos on these. My recommendation for those looking at these is to find a seller that offers defect warranty because if I got the one you have with the soft face I would have returned it. Again thank you for making these videos you rock.

[@lawrenwimberly7311]

Roy... that Hardie hole is just the right size for a beginner to use RR spikes for hardie tooling

[@20mcarroll02]

The early fisher anvils, had small hardy holes also. I have a 1904 fisher 70# that has a 5/8" hardy hole. So with a little clean up on the little 66 pounder my hardy tools for my little Fisher works well with it....I'm anvil poor...lol

[@AFGaskillJr]

Man,,,, I like this idea, I czn mzke several tools for mine in tnis fashion ,, thanks for the idea....

[@dragonstonegemironworkscra4740]

An idea I hadn't had. R/r spike Hardy shank. Hmmm

[@lawrenwimberly7311]

I had an old RR track anvil someone had put a 5/8 hardy hole in... I made a hot cut for it using a HC spike... I upset and consolidated the head, then forged the hot cut out of that mass

[@OrionsAnvil]

Another great video 👍I lucked up on finding an American Star anvil. I believe it was basically a copy of the Fishers. It just thumps and has plenty of rebound.

[@glenndarilek520]

So one should not buy an anvil shaped like a tuning fork?

[@ChristCenteredIronworks]

Lol yep unless you just got to make some music :-)

[@Zogg1281]

It probably depends on the size, a tuning fork that's 10 foot long would probably have some really good sections to try to forge on but I think you might need the worlds best ear defenders to go with it 😋👍

[@glenndarilek520]

Glen Everett Resonant frequency for a 10-foot tuning fork would be low enough to feel it through your tongs.

[@IslandMetalForge]

I don't even gotta watch to know exactly what you're going to say! Lol... I feel the same way... my Fisher is quiet like a church mouse... and hits like a brick!

[@demastust.2277]

FIsher-Norris anvils are fantastic! I am quite a fan of them myself since I own one.

[@mage8838]

Good ideas Roy. It is hard to unlearn what you have always heard or been tought. With good information makes it a bit easier.

[@dougiequick1]

Since the internet easy access to info for example Snopes ...I have begin to bite my tongue anytime I am tempted to spew out anyone of hundreds of old things everyone has bought into in the past....seems like more often than not I had been unknowingly spewing BS....Or at least anymore I will qualify a statement with "not really sure if this is true or not but I have always heard in the past blah blah blah" Sure lowers my opinion of folks that spew wrong things as if they are infallibly right....ya know?

[@drason69]

100% agree Sir. Why do Smith's add, chain, magnets, silicone, rubber, wood, etc.? To deaden the ring! Even a cast iron anvil, with No rebound, is a place to start. Had a cast iron one once. Dead in all respect, but it was flat, and could work! I've done a fair share of forging, on RR tracks face. It's better than a rock, if you know/learn to use it. Learn your tools, they will teach you, *your* way

[@andrewyork3869]

Interesting I was told that on the old forged anvils no ring ment some weld failed, or alternatively the wrought iron had cracked. No clue where I picked that up....

[@whiskeyjim4126]

I have this anvil. Had some face cracking at first but that stopped when i warmed it up before using it

[@erotdaman]

My opinion is that the hardened ball rebound indicate the hardness of the face. I garantee you that it leaves a dent in the little anvil. There goes the energi from the ball. The mass has nothing to do with it in this case. When it sits on the bigger anvil, that also ads to the mass

[@paulwharton3488]

Joyful is my 250 Peter Wright anvil and was named so because as I cleaned it with some abrasive paper it sang to me. Ring and rebound may be indicators of a better anvil but as Roy says they are not the final word on what may be a good anvil.

[@20mcarroll02]

Fisher anvils, no ring at all, but the best American pattern anvil ever cast. I love mine. Roy, are the Peddinghous anvils still forged? I know my kanca is forged. I love the south german pattern anvil much better than the north german pattern. I'm saving up for my own "Olga". 460# refflinghaus.

[@kyledaviesmusic786]

Wow, I never knew there was so much to think about with the ringing of an anvil. Thank you for sharing, I just subscribed, looking forward to more videos!

[@wiley979]

Good info Roy, thanks! Quick question, would it be wise to enlarged to be a standard size? I was thinking to drill just under and either file or broach to finish.

[@ChristCenteredIronworks]

If you want to but I personally wouldn't go through the effort and expense... I would just make tooling to fit

[@larrystrayer8336]

I enjoy your channel. I have a question; I have a small anvil it’s old and is solid steel was told it was a large leather or artist anvil has a flattened conical horn merging to a point 3/4 hardly, weight is 32 pounds has a 3 inch face Is there any practical way to add mass. I have a large number of 1/2 x 4” brush cutter blades any suggestions would be appreciated. Larry.

[@melgross]

I’ve seen that anvil with almost an 80% rebound. Are they that variable? Maybe. My 132 lb black model, which is harder, according to my tests, has good rebound. By the way, hardness doesn’t mean it will ring well. Remember that most bells, that do ring well, are almost always made from brass or bronze - pretty soft. It’s mostly, as Roy says, mass and alloy.

[@griffian4454]

Neat trick with the magnet

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

Good information, thanks Roy.

[@mtyson9004]

Great lesson Roy! Thanks for the great advice! God Bless you guys!

[@leviharp7925]

Thanks for the information it's nice to learn about anvils becuase I am really looking for one of starter or expert quality or a 30kg anvil to a 500lbs pound anvil lol I like stuff big becuase it's harder to steal that way and anvils are gold where I live

[@deanmorgan7070]

I just bought one of those baby blue anvils off Ebay. It's 40 kilos/88 pounds and was advertised as "forged". Is this truly a forged anvil? The horn is somewhat "pitted", and there is what appears to be a casting line.

[@mattwyeth3156]

# question if you anvil only has about 3 to 5 mm of hardness in the face can you still remove any dents from the face of the anvil or do you need to re harden the face and then temper it again

[@goranzivkovic7254]

Try peddinghaus 20 kg bolbering test

[@bentoombs]

Destructive comments!! You got it 😁 what was that model number again? The EIEIO.... Lol. I completely agree Roy 🔨on!!

[@marty01957]

Good video , Roy!

[@jasonsisk2902]

I get that I bought a Harbor Freight Anvil that was cast iron and half hour into my work I broke both be off hour and 10 minutes I broke the horn off so I bought a railroad track piece that was 15 in long and made a decent Anvil out of it

[@joshuarowe3845]

Iv used that same 55 pound anvil for alittle over a year and i even used it for sledge work. I Never had anything break, but it the anvil quality is bad. Pitting from hot steel means a badly produced anvil. I finally ditched it for a 140 pound Arm and Hammer.

[@stefanmierke4801]

I cannot say that I agree or disagree. Just because of my lack of experience, regarding that topic. I have an anvil, got it from a guy whos grandfather or father passed away and he just want to get rid of that stuff in the barn. So now I have an anvil. If I hit it with a hammer, there are no marks, the sounds is pleasant to the ear, but a bit too loud. The pitch is too high. So I will just put a giant magnet on the horn, to absorb some of it, and put the whole thing on an anvil stand with a lead sheet underneath. If the anvil is good or not, future will show it. It is the only thing I have, aside from a piece of railroad track :) So I see my anvil as an improvement of that ASO (anvil shaped object). It has round corners, the guy welded on it, the hardy hole was round ... but hey, it will do the job, until I have something better. Perhaps, and this is the best essence of that video, forging is not the thing I want to do long. Then all that money spent on these things would be ... insane ^^ Start small, look into the craft and then ask other smiths and people of the craft, they help you all out. Didn't meet any blacksmith who is a ... not an okay or nice person. Some are more silent than others, but I didn't meet any that said, no I didn't tell you this or that, because it is super secret. Wisdom is there to share, my forging teacher, Nico Runge, told me, otherwise it will die with you and this will serve nobody.

[@drstrangefart]

My Peter Wright rings like crazy without silencing. My ASO doesn't ring and sounds like you whacked a block of lead hitting it hard with a hammer. That being said hot steel works GREAT on that 50lb ASO. If memory serves me, anvil ring is also used to let you know if there's a crack in it somewhere.

[@HisWayHomestead]

great information! Thanks Roy!

[@richhalmuth160]

Thanks for the cool video Roy

[@duaneaubuchon9453]

Thanks for the information sir!! It helps alot to me

[@KevinFirst86]

Love the objectives stance you took on this.

[@leoszes]

I'd like to present a counter argument a ringing anvil is "good quality" because when you hit it, you can always tell whether it is made of wood or steel/iron. alternatively you could try throwing it into a pond, I heard wood floats and steel does not but I have jet to test this theory

[@benonablacksmith454]

I've seen a 44 lb one of these that has 90% rebound with a ball bearing so mass has nothing to do with it.

[@benonablacksmith454]

I'm going to forge a 20-30 lb viking anvil and weld on a high carbon steel face. Before I heat treat it I will do a pre rebound test and then a post rebound test just for cramps and giggles. I will be sure to do a KZbin video of making and testing it.👍 have a good day roy. I will be there for your live stream later!!!

[@AFGaskillJr]

I paid 120.00 for mine off of ebay,, I know it is italian/chinese made tool but, I find it suits my need as a travel anvil. To go to meetings , shows and demos. I plan to FILL thd space between the legs with a 10018 welding rod, will let ghe world know what weight and what it does to my anbil when I am done with it.

[@lukecope4212]

Yes please update us with this comment if you do weld the leg gap closed. I would personally be very interested in the results

[@princejesterful]

I've just bought one of these anvils and was thinking of doing the same thing. Please give an update to let us know if it was worth it or not.

[@MrSticks9999]

Good info Roy!! God Bless!

[@MoMoneyMeric518]

I've got a 110lbs peter Wright for free looking to get into blacksmithing. The ring is so loud on it

[@brandonhahn7789]

It’s prounounced Ah-chai-yo (chai like the tea) and it means “steel”

[@brandonhahn7789]

Good video too! I tried to explain this to people eyeing anvils at a farm auction who kept tapping the anvils and commenting on how “that ones a good one!” Based on nothing but the ring. Sometimes it’s not bad to know things other people don’t because I bought the best one there (127 lb hay budden) for a lot cheaper than some of the others that were in far worse shape.

[@rmcmunoz2]

When are you giving this anvil away.

[@lukecope4212]

Once a month, every month on his live stream

[@typrus6377]

In an anvil that is known to be a type that can ring well, a dead ring tends to indicate things like cracks, delamination, etc. Just like in a bell. However, just like you and others say- not all kinds ring well even when 100% perfect. As for the rebound, same story in the general rule- cracks and delam can kill it. My 150lb PW with delam will only rebound ~50% whereas my 124lb PW is about 95%. Not to discredit you, caveats and context abound!

[@albertoarrigoni6724]

"ACCIAIO" in italian means "steel". If It could be an useful info for you😉 I like your videos 👍well done!

[@brandonhahn7789]

alberto arrigoni I just started learning Italian and I JUST learned what “acciaio” means! It was fun to apply it to something!

[@randyhanning9578]

I would have liked to see you change it up at about 5 minutes and rang your anvil, rebounded it, and talked more about the magnet. I think you did great and have valid points but it got monotonous. All and all value in not only trusting tales. Thumbs Up!

[@rafer2002]

drop a Snap-on wrench on cement sounds like precision tooling, drop a Craftsman wrench on cement sounds like boat anchor

[@lotmom]

Don't drop snap-ons on cement 😅

[@MrBAchompBAchomp]

My railroad track anvil has a wicked ring

[@BrianDaleNeeley]

I think the rebound test is a hardness indicator. I think if you were to place a small hardened plate on that anvil, and dropped a ball bearing on the plate, you would get more rebound. The plate should be thick enough that the entire thickness of the plate will not flex under the ball strike. I would guess a quarter inch plate should be sufficient for the size ball you are using. I don't have any experience or hard evidence to back up my theory, except for a video or two I have seen discussing using the bounce test as a hardness tester (kzbin.info/www/bejne/p4bTkqObZb2ajNU WARNING: AvE video in link).

[@kennymiller4428]

sounds logical to me

[@IslandMetalForge]

But I will watch of course lol

[@ChristCenteredIronworks]

But of course :-)

[@glennglorious4810]

Internet here just doing my thing...Anvil ring DOES mean quality and I can prove it. Test the ring of a cast iron anvil versus an actual anvil. *drops mic*

[@20mcarroll02]

What type of cast iron though? Cast iron from harbor freight? Yes the thunk and are junk. Cast iron Fisher? Best ever cast.

[@dragonstonegemironworkscra4740]

@@20mcarroll02 there man! See you've hit upon the core of the subject. Not all cast iron is the same. There are various reasons why a cast can go bad. Fisher and even Vulcan are cast anvils. Some are most absolutely better than others.sone castings are softer come are harder. Perfect mix is hard enough to work and last soft enough to not break or shatter under use. Tbh from the things I've learned on cast iron there are tons of variable that can effect the outcome. From what I've gathered the best cast iron for our use would be 1.5 to 1.85 carbon content grey iron ( cast iron mixed w apx 25/30% mild steel to reduce carbon content) with 5% nickel and 1% copper and if course ferro silcate is reduced to 3/4 standard. Birders on malliable cast iron yet resist tear/shear better than malliable iron. One day if like to try this ratio cast in anvil form. The welding of the top plate is the biggest hurdle in my particular position. Best of days y'all 🙏 Blessed be now Crawford out ⚒️🧙‍♂️

[@Sua_Sponte_-]

I did not like the ring my anvil makes so I ground some of the sides till I got a pleasant sound I tuned it in other words

[@randomgoat2272]

First!

[@ChristCenteredIronworks]

Second lol