Christian Denominations Say THIS. Does it make sense?

Let's look at what denominations are saying and evaluate if these things make sense.
Part 1 is here: • Are Christian Denomina...

[@lavieestlenfer]

I love this channel for two reason: an impartial, academic coverage of Christian denominations, and the comment sections where everyone condemns everyone else for heresy.

[@Netro1992]

That sounds heretical.

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

Such a statement proves you're a heretic, as is everyone who fails to affirm quartodecimilenarianism.

[@finnkuudere3516]

If I’m deemed heretical by those who are heretical in a manner that is heretical in heresy forthwith and as such in heretical heresy am I not right?

[@dawnellafreeman4860]

😂😂🎉

[@andresmartinezramos7513]

Everyday I feel like Warhammer 40k is less of a parody and more a reimagining

[@captainsunshine918]

"Ready To Harvest is a top notch channel!" is a statement I'm sure would get 90%+ agreement in a poll question!

[@garrettklawuhn9874]

Word salad!

[@zope6362]

Sorry I didn’t understand this word salad

[@HenryLeslieGraham]

9% unsure show results

[@dawnellafreeman4860]

Lol I love this channel

[@duncanwalla7014]

Agreed

[@Netro1992]

I am convinced people reading skills have cratered.

[@russianvalkyrie2358]

I think its a lack of comprehension of christianity itself.

[@RestingJudge]

Apparently anything that requires some brain cells to comprehend is word salad. There's things in the Bible itself that requires much more critical thinking than any of these quotes.

[@owalterluan]

couldn't agree more

[@crucialtaunt5717]

Agreed. I was surprised at the word salad comments.

[@Barbara-pe2jf]

Condescending much?

[@dechasrisen4783]

​@@Barbara-pe2jf the arrogance of people who didn't understand something to comment 'word salad?' instead of 'I don't think I understand; can someone explain what this is trying to say?' deserves no other response.

[@chrisbaier6252]

Yes. I assumed all the questions were taken from some doctrinal statement/staements of faith. They sometimes seem awkwardly worded because they are written by committees, trying to be concise while accurately reflecting their beliefs. “Word salad” to me just means meaningless words that don’t convey or promise anything. “Leadership will actualize this year’s performance plan to maximize our human capital’s resources to optimize output, strategize work-life balance while reaching our goals to maximize shareholder value”

[@jonathanstensberg]

People seem to think anything over seven words in length is word salad…

[@williamnathanael412]

I don't know man, this looks like video salad for me.

[@ReadyToHarvest]

🤣

[@migueldejesus5945]

😂

[@e.moonbound2420]

I think we might have a systematic reading comprehension problem

[@russianvalkyrie2358]

Its a lack of comprehension on the basic fundemental beliefs of all christians.

[@TheTwoWheeledTeacher]

I’ve yet to read one of your polls which struck me as “word salad.” The number of Christian’s who respond to these polls saying they don’t understand should give us pause for whether or not a significant number of respondents even understand their own beliefs.

[@iagoofdraiggwyn98]

Honestly, and depressingly, true.

[@FriedMetroid]

I agree but also, no reason to assume people understand their own beliefs

[@andresmartinezramos7513]

I think it is many times a matter of terminology. I had a difficult time with the dancing question because I had to look up what "to redeem dance" was supposed to be.

[@ReptilianLepton]

It is wonderful that, by the grace of God, even the slow and illiterate have been redeemed into the Body of Christ. _However..._

[@hello21467]

I think the assumption that only Christians read and respond is flawed.

[@cactoidjim1477]

**POLL QUESTIONS ARE FABULOUS** It gives folks a chance to interact with the many different faith statements from both familiar and unfamiliar denominations.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

I had just explained this very concept.

[@zelenisok]

People throwing "word salad" label on any sentence that is long and complex (which is the pre-TikTok way of writing sentences), even though you can follow and understand it. And yes, maybe you can't know what the sentence is exactly referring to by something, but that's almost always explained in the following sentences, not everything can be said in one sentence.

[@IamGrimalkin]

People have been condemning complicated sentences for well before the internet and certainty tiktok was invented. George Orwell: "Never use a long word where a short one will do." "If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out." "Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent." Text readably formulas are from before the internet; with the aim to get as low a score as possible. Before TikTok (but after the internet), people have published research recommending an average sentence length of 14 words. And the UK government has had a maximum of 25 words per sentence on their website dating back to 2014.

[@cactoidjim1477]

Those who are not familiar with 18th, 19th, or even early 20th-century prose will have difficulty parsing many of these statements. They shout "word salad!" because they don't know what to make of statements which were perfectly intelligible to English speakers only 100 years ago.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

Try reading "Utopia" by Sir Thomas More'. An entire page is *one sentence* (more or less) and quite challenging to read YET at the same time, efficient and complete.

[@sammysamlovescats]

As someone that grew up Lutheran, I immediately was like "Hold on, I know that Lutheran-y statement" because for some reason, Lutheran writings *love* to talk in drawn out complicated statements

[@studogable]

Possibly because many state churches are Lutheran, and thus theological statements must be more precise than "we believe in God" as a practical matter? When these things have real-world relevance they tend to get kind of wordy.

[@redschannel6527]

Same lol, I have a near pavlovian response to the word "vocation"

[@FidgetyGuy]

Martin Luther was a wicked man who mocked God and falsely accused Jesus of adultery. No one should follow the teachings of such a wicked man. As a former Lutheran, I would encourage you to research his autobiography, Martin Luther's Table Talk. In it, you'll find examples of frequent drunkenness, blasphemy, and the promotion of grave sins.

[@daveirwin6903]

This is most certainly true 😉

[@thomasc9036]

Remember that the Inquisition was still full in effect when the Protestant Reformation started. The Reformers had to submit their Confessions of faith to the Holy Roman Emperor and Kings to prevent put under the Inquisition. What most people don't know is that many Inquisitions were done by the state, not the Church. As a Protestant, I think we, Protestants, need to be truthful and repent on "inventing too many false Inquisition stories to discredit Roman Catholics... of course RC did the same as well".

[@ebercondrell6603]

I think "word salad" is a bit of a meme that was coming up there for a bit. Especially with the older quotes from ancient and medieval churches that use more archaic English. However, it is encouraging that people who had difficulty understanding the message of these statements are working on that by watching your channel!

[@FriedMetroid]

Any remotely eloquent or sophisticated statement: Zoomers: w O r D s a l a d??

[@goatsandroses4258]

If people think some of these are word salad, they've never read a legal document or any detailed writing, fiction or non-fiction...or parts of the New Testament for that matter. Just because a statement is precise, has a lot of dependent clauses, ambles through the flowery fields like a 19th century romance novel, or attempts to address all possibly consequences does NOT make it "word salad." Now, there IS such a thing as word salad. For example, "We advocate and applaud but consider with reasonable reservations creating a culture based on group accountability and personal self-sacrifice aided and fostered by unfettered individualism, complete independence, and benevolent greed." (Maybe someone else could do better.) Word salads tend to string together EMOTIVE TERMS or CATCH PHRASES. These phrases or words get people's attention and applause, but the entire statement can leave you thinking, "Whuuuut exactly did s/he just say?" or "That's not logical."

[@pestoriusj]

The one of these that seemed most like word salad to me was also the easiest one to read and understand (It was the one about good works.)

[@marmeemarch7080]

"Ambles through the flowery fields like a 19th century romance novel," bwa ha ha ha!

[@langreeves6419]

Ok Everything is NOT word salad Why are people calling clear easy to understand plain English "word salad"? Even the third one is not a word salad. It's a belief that holds contradiction, so the belief is a bit weird, but the description seems clear.

[@dimitrimolotovvyacheslav4604]

"in the beginning God created heavens and Earth" Ehhhrrrrm ekzcuse me, that's a word salad ☝️🤓

[@Toetalwar]

I always feel "stronly" about your videos

[@robertAGC]

The issue I take with “agreeing” with many of the statements is that the theological terms being used are freighted with meanings that change based on denominational/cultural context. Take, for example: “I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.” This is, of course, is an English translation of the Nicean Creed. Given its early adoption in Christian History, many Christians, whether Roman Catholic, Orthodox (Greek or otherwise), and even Protestants would “agree,” but they all would disagree with what it means. A Protestant might say it applies to the Church Invisible, whereas an Orthodox or Catholic person would say it refers specifically to the Orthodox or Catholic Church (respectively). Orthodox and Catholic people will disagree on what “Catholic” means, where the one might say it means “complete in itself; lacking nothing,” and the other would say it means “universal.” Someone on the outside of that particular argument would say the interlocutors are quibbling, whereas those inside the debate would say one emphasis or another has deep and important implications. Still others will disagree with assenting to the word “catholic” at all, thinking it smacks too much of papism. In short, there have been plenty of statements where, within my context (I am Greek Orthodox), I would agree, but I know or suspect that these statements have been made with different semantic values to what I initially assume. Hence, I usually say, “unsure/ just show results.” Although, now that I know the necessary qualification for a poll to make it to this video series, I’m going to start calling “word salad” on every poll.

[@maillemacanaugh1841]

It would be good to have a “needs more clarification” option.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

This is a feature of this channel, to explore "freighted" language.

[@HenryLeslieGraham]

it seems like some people would like to be spoon fed theological statements that are worded in the language of a child. if one was clever enough one would be able to reword the apostles creed or nicene creed enough that some would accuse it of being word salad. for those who are christian it seems that the lack of catechesis amongst broad evangelicals has led to a loss of theological reading comprehension.

[@iagoofdraiggwyn98]

Perhaps this is what St. Paul meant by milk vs meat.

[@HenryLeslieGraham]

@@iagoofdraiggwyn98 yes, many of the comments belie a kind of pragmatist theology which says "what is the point of these theological statements? they dont promote evangelism, they dont feed people's souls, they dont build up the body". leaving these somewhat ignorant ideals aside, the point of these theological statements is not to be an exercise in 'academics', but to express in a succinct manner the theological/biblical position of a church on x matter. None of these statements are worded to be 'word salad' on purpose. Most of the accusations of word salad i think come from people who are largely unfamiliar with such statements or perhaps ones who are ill disposed to them because of similar (but not equivalent) statements by colleges/politicians/companies on hot button issues.

[@andresmartinezramos7513]

@@HenryLeslieGraham I think terminology is also often a significant issue. Most of us just aren't theologians familiar with it.

[@HenryLeslieGraham]

@@andresmartinezramos7513 true but one normally is supposed to be exposed to this kind of language through in depth catechesis. This is the case of historic confessional churches. but not so much the case in broad evangelicalism which (often) eschews confessions and creeds.

[@andresmartinezramos7513]

@@HenryLeslieGraham Back when I was being raised as a Catholic I went to catechesis as did the other kids in my village. I only started to pay attention by the time I started to have my suspicions that there was no God. I can't speak for my peers, but I wasn't an outlier. In denominations were there isn't even catechesis I suppose you must rely on what your parents teach you which is very likely to be in layman terms.

[@ShiroiNihonjin]

Lots of arrogance and anti-intellectualism in online Christian culture

[@andresmartinezramos7513]

But see. If I label all opposing positions to my own as heresy I don't have to think about it.

[@badhabits1965]

nothing makes people question Christianity more than loud and arrogant Christians

[@ranikalakaar]

Even outside.

[@firstpersonwinner7404]

​@@andresmartinezramos7513It is really handy when all differing opinions are automatically wrong

[@BrianRich1689]

It's why Christianity is dying off and abhorrent groups are growing exponentially. We can thank people like Leighton Flowers, Faith on fire TV, Vernon McGee, Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, Wesleyans, and other new and abhorrent groups steeped in heterodox roots for this. Tolerance for these groups really needs to end. A few generations their views would have been capital crimes. The fact that these heretics with no historic roots took our forefathers well intended tolerance to backbite them is repulsive to me. Effeminate semi Pelagians rife with Nestorian gaffs.

[@ShyguyMM]

Regarding "experience his love as wrath"... I think this also touches on the doctrine of Divine Simplicity. That is, that God has no "parts." His attributes and qualities are, ultimately, not distinct, but are merely different ways of describing his one, unified essence. So "God's love" and "God's justice" are ultimately, in some sense, the same thing.

[@jgw5491]

So how would you parse "God's love" = "God's justice/wrath"?

[@ShyguyMM]

@@jgw5491 I'm not sure. Theologians and philosophers go very deep and use very precise language when they try and explain these things. Basically, there is no real distinction between God as subject of his attributes and his attributes. This solves the Euthyphro dilemma from Plato: "Is something good because God loves it or does God love something because it is good?" The answer is that God _is_ goodness. He is, in some sense, identical to each of his attributes, which implies that each attribute is also in some sense identical to every other one.

[@TurtleMarcus]

@@jgw5491 Divine Simplicity is a peculiar doctrine. It is not a starting point, but rather a necessary consequence of a certain type of montheism. The idea is that God cannot be made up of parts. Consequently God's attributes cannot be different. He cannot have one part of himself which is "justice" and another part of himself which is "love". So from this follows, necessarily that "God" = "God's love" = "God's justice" = "God's omnipotence" etc. The practical meaning of this is not obvious, but it is logically coherent. (Other ways to phrase this are "God's essence is his existence").

[@thebowshot9341]

The way I understand it is that God is love (1 John 4:8) - love is God's nature. That is the very simple starting point. Then we see that every attribute of God flows from His nature, which is love. So, God is just, but He is not Justice, He is righteous, but He is not Righteousness, He is holy, but He is not Holiness - He _is_ Love. Justice, righteousness, holiness - these are attributes flowing from the love of God. God is wrathful against sin and Satan, and this is an attribute of His love, because Satan, in his opposition to God, has involved the creature whom He loved - Man. Hell is a powerful expression of God's loving nature - love demands that everything which is evil and contrary to the happiness of man and the purpose of God (man's happiness and God's purpose are inseparable, in my view) is put away, contained, removed from the presence of God for all eternity. That necessarily involves those who reject Christ, and choose hell for themselves. I believe every act of God - even acts of judgement against evil - must flow from His nature, which is love.

[@jimbobjones5972]

​@@thebowshot9341 AMEN!

[@Susie_Legion_DBD]

"This is word salad" comments in most instances just means the person in question is unfamiliar with theological terminology.

[@michaelperigo6746]

Humanae Vitae is definitely not word salad. It is a teaching of the Catholic Church. Admittedly, most Catholics dismiss it, though, which says a lot about the obedience of Catholics. :(

[@chedelirio6984]

And even the dissenters don't consider it word salad.

[@studogable]

I'm a staunch unbeliever, but this channel's analysis of religious history and culture is absolutely first rate. Well done in so many ways.

[@FidgetyGuy]

If, as you claim, you are an unbeliever, I would think you'd spend your limited time elsewhere. Other than an atheist's perverse desire to corrupt Christians, what draws you to this channel?

[@FidgetyGuy]

You reported/censored my comment. That is why unbelief and cowardice are both listed in Revelation 21:8.

[@ninjason57]

Nobody is an unbeliever. You believe in something even if it's yourself.

[@studogable]

@@FidgetyGuy I have no idea what you're talking about, and you should be ashamed for bearing false witness.

[@FidgetyGuy]

Why must satanists masquerading as atheists try to convert Christians? If you really were an atheist, then you would live your best life. You would NOT waste one moment of time on Christians channels, attempting to convert Christians to your world view.

[@redschannel6527]

This video has made me lose faith in the basic literacy skills of our fellow man, God help us all

[@Baboon10164]

I think there is one group you may not be accounting for in the “not sure”. I’ve seen many of these questions on my feed, and answered many with “not sure” because I am not myself a Christian, but appreciate watching your channel for your informative and intellectual discussions of Christianity. I answered “not sure” to get an idea of the thoughts of your channel viewership at large, who I believe to be majority Christian.

[@studogable]

Likewise.

[@andresmartinezramos7513]

I think he knows But most of us who fall in that category are probably answering with the last option most of the time. So a constant percentage aund 10-15%. He only points out when it is a significantly larger share, meaning many of the other 90-80% also weren't sure or didn't understand.

[@jamesmc04]

Thank you for posting all these quotations, from so many different sources, They give one a lot to think about - especially when one sees what different nuances people notice in them. Not only was dancing - even the waltz - once regarded as impermissible for Christians; so, at one time, was acting. It would be interesting to know what the history of these attitudes is. Christian ethics has undergone some remarkable changes. One wonders how widely smoking, or serving in the military, are regarded as impermissible for Christians

[@jamesparson]

Sounds dangerous. I don't think people want to know how their church has changed.

[@JimHopkinsHaveFun]

I went to (then) Calvin College in the mid/late seventies. Dances were NOT allowed on campus, and was frowned upon throughout the CRC. We'd get around it by having our dorms sponsor 'parties with music'. I think that's where the CRC's dancing affirmation comes from.

[@RobertEWaters]

Not sure how the statement from the Augsburg Confession about the Means of Grace being instruments through which the Holy Spirit is given could be clearer or even more concise.

[@Tunafish262]

4:00 I remember my dad telling me that they couldn't dance at school. He got a detention once for dancing as a joke. He went to a high school affiliated with the CRC.

[@litigioussociety4249]

So your dad is Kevin Bacon?

[@maillemacanaugh1841]

Did he live in Zeeland Michigan?

[@ikemeitz5287]

The quote from the Augsburg Confession is a fascinating example of how context is vital for these. I read the quote without the context and read "instruments" as "musical instruments," which (of course) made the statement nonsensical. But when you revealed that it's from the Augsburg Confession, I immediately realized that "instruments" was being used in the more technical sense, and it made perfect sense. Maybe some of the people claiming "word salad" are frustrated because they're lacking context?

[@1313stjimmy]

That is often why I answer "Unsure". My first instinct is that I have no earthly clue what that means and I know there is some larger context for the statement but I don't know what it is supposed to be and it feels like cheating to just google it.

[@jeffking4176]

I really enjoy these poll questions, and these two videos. I like to see the final results from you. ✝️🙏🙂

[@thebenzaga]

I think people have low reading comprehension skills or patience

[@coltonregal1797]

A wise guy once said "Think about how stupid the average person is, and remember that half of them are dumber than that."

[@BrendaBoykin-qz5dj]

Thank you,Joshua. 🌹⭐🌹More,more,more. Super interesting.

[@GrammyGottaGo]

You are always so level, I definitely giggled at “stronly”

[@Bncnj]

I enjoyed this type of video. Please, do more like these.

[@jtv_70]

I really like your channel. I think some go with word salad just because they dont really understand it. Also, many have never read their denomination's statement of faith. If you want to hear true Word salad - watch a little Chuck Pierce 😊

[@Elvertaw]

Love this channel. You are impartial. You give a clear and concise view of other religions and church development. The more I watch the more I realize that everyone has an opinion. Everyone has a way of worshiping what they call God. Everyone accuses the other one of being wrong. Why can’t we just love each other!

[@goaway5297]

Absolutely love this channel.

[@williamnathanael412]

A church: puts out a very well-researched adequately nuanced theological statement to answer an important debate that spans centuries of church history, which most 21-century Christians are ignorant of and therefore needed to be laid out in extremely precise language. Average KZbin commenters: *word salad*

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

This comment is word salad!!1

[@rhosymedra6628]

this is really interesting! I'd love to see more videos discussing your poll results

[@shawnbeckett1370]

Awesome as always

[@IsGul_Davos]

Most Interesting, I had no idea some people struggled to understand the statements.

[@christianfaux736]

I don't think people understand that just because it's a compound sentence doesn't mean it's word salad. For a lot of these it seems like people are saying it just to say it.

[@emberpaulovich6602]

I often think "Where does he get these statements?" when I see your polls, so it's nice to get a bit of perspective!

[@AliceObscura]

The person is correct about some languages not having grammatical gender. For example, I speak Persian and the pronoun او (oo) is used for men, women, and most inanimate objects. آن (ān or oon, there are two pronunciations, the latter is more colloquial) is used for animals. Either way, if you wrote something like, "tanhā yek khoda wājūd dārad, va ooh dar osman zendegi mïkonad," it could be translated as, "there is only one God and (he she or it) lives in heaven." I won't make an affirmative statement about the question regarding gender, just stating that not every language has grammatical gender in the same way English does, thus not every translation of the Bible is even capable of dealing with this issue.

[@AI-hx3fx]

I’m a Catholic from the Philippines, and an Evangelical friend who attended CCF explained her understanding of the relationship between Faith and Works almost exactly like how the denomination/group phrased it.

[@Fountainofyouth007]

It seems that some people just enjoy using the expression, "word salad.","or just don't know what it means.

[@maillemacanaugh1841]

I like the poll questions, I figured they were coming from some creed or another, and sometimes I get confused so I don’t answer them, but when I can, I like participating.

[@EveryTongue]

Very good man!

[@oluofyoutube]

I love that your page has grown. Been following for a while

[@ReiRei12]

You gotta make keep doing these videos please.

[@Michiganman800]

In many debates with atheists, I've seen them use "word salad" when they hear an argument they don't like/ don't understand / aren't open-minded enough to listen to. I think alot of people re-act that way when the philosophical waters get deep. Tbf though, I've been lost on some of your poll questions. But I just assume it's some internal debate I've never heard of. I wonder if Christians outside the Anglo-sphere think it's wierd for Christians to be "uptight" about dance.

[@lavieestlenfer]

Tbf, all explanations of the trinity are word salad.

[@Michiganman800]

@@lavieestlenfer I wouldn't say that, but I get your point

[@costakeith9048]

@@lavieestlenfer By necessity, that which can be explained by human language and comprehended by human thought, cannot be the Divinity itself.

[@lavieestlenfer]

@@costakeith9048 That is not logically a necessity.

[@andresmartinezramos7513]

@@costakeith9048 That's a stretch and a half. To the point of there no being relation between the premise and the conclusion.

[@ReidMerrill]

The amount of people commenting 'word salad' is a real condemnation of your subscribers

[@jeffking4176]

PART of the problem with these statements, is the “Theological terminology “. These were written by Scholars , so us “lay people “ may find the wording difficult. [ Love this Channel. Always learning interesting things - especially about other Christians, and From other Christians.] ✝️🙏🙂

[@jec1ny]

Suggestion for a future video topic: The snake handling churches of rural American Appalachia.

[@julioguadalupe6935]

Very interesting probe into a sample of the Christian community through the use of statements of faith. Would love to see these on a quarterly or yearly basis. Thanks for doing this video

[@Lex_Araden]

Hey just for clarification, I (almost) always answer "Not sure" even when I can answer, because I am an Atheist, and I think an overwhelming majority of these theological questions are only meaningfully answered by Christians.

[@russianvalkyrie2358]

Much better to not weigh in at all then if your goal is not to sway results by christians

[@Lex_Araden]

@@russianvalkyrie2358 I like to see the results though and the only way to do that is to vote not sure. I can't think of one of the top of my head but I think I only answered one other one because it did not seem like a theological question.

[@blanchjoe1481]

Dear RTH, I appreciate your efforts to extend a greater understanding of the various Christian based Faith Methodologies, for even those of us who have been born and raised in the Judaeo-Christos cultures, find the variations of Christian belief confusing, if not outright mysterious. What I find even more interesting is that, while we can find many individuals who are more than willing to define, and even promote their specific belief methodology, few if ever actually inspect, and question the more more interesting nature of the "Belief Process" itself? Where does it arise, why does it emerge, what are its effects upon our lives, and the lives of those around us? Since beliefs define our perceptions of what is "real", this begins to explore larger and more fundamental perceptions, that most individuals are unwilling or outright contrary to unraveling.

[@towardcivicliteracy]

I have to admit, I sometimes disagree stronly much more than strongly.

[@kevinyalantis-scottproduct7035]

It seems like "word salad" just means "I don't understand this." I understood the Humanae Vite quote without ever hearing it

[@IndiAcres]

That's where those nutty questions come from. 😮

[@yeshuaislord3058]

I've never seen any of your questions as word salad, but there are a few ones I've had to read multiple times

[@michaelnelson1270]

The love as wrath statement percentages suggest a hidden universalist streak in the respondents.

[@theskoomacat7849]

8:52 I don't think I've ever heard this view before, I suddenly find it extremely fascinating.

[@brandon8214]

It seems like all the people that boldly call these statements word salad are just boldly claiming that they have no reading comprehension skills and/or are just too lazy to think

[@TurtleMarcus]

Maybe people are confused as to what word salad actually mean. It is supposed to mean incoherent or garbled speech. In Norwegian, we have a word for something below word salad: "kansellistil" ("Chancery Style" or more liberally translated "Government Style"), which refers to text that is coherent, meaningfull and possible to understand, but which uses unnecessarily complex or difficult language. "Chancery Style" text will often (1) use passive sentences; (2) use long sentences with lots of subordinate clauses, running for lines on end; and (3) use loanwords from other languages or resort to technical terms, when a proper Norwegian every-day alternative does exists. It's basically the very thing the Plain Language movement is combatting. And maybe that's what people think word salad is.

[@veggiet2009]

Ohhhhhhh this is why the poll questions

[@velaineshort2523]

I think a lot of people use the term 'word salad' when things are worded in a complex / legalistic / word games / dancing around an issue way so as to almost deliberately confuse, obfuscate, make it hard to get at what is really being said, etc. It's not so much that the statements are incoherent but that they are really wordy so that it can feel like they are meant to overwhelm with complicated wording so that a person might think the statement is saying one thing where the meaning was actually something very different

[@_ky5824]

I have a feeling that some of the people commenting “word salad” might have failed reading comprehension.

[@jgw5491]

Wow! First time that I've seen CCF referred to by name as part of the greater Christian community. My brother is an elder in this church. I don't belong, but I have learned about many good things they do. Thanks for sharing this.

[@ReadyToHarvest]

That's neat! I actually have a video on CCF too that you may find interesting: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4HOnKCpp9ZpsM0si=2gACSP5C8-wiHVt0

[@jgw5491]

@@ReadyToHarvest Thanks!

[@jayt9608]

To call these statements a word salad is flumoxing. We are supposedly a literate society, but the number of people who find even simple assertions to be overly verbose is astounding, and worse when the particular passage is little more than a rewording of Scripture. If this is the authentic feeling of most people, I fear for the state of the church. I would also like to know how often these people are reading their Bibles and which versions they use. I have a feeling that the popular use of dynamic translations and paraphrases has contributed to the lack of theological comprehension.

[@vngelicath1580]

Most if not all of these statements are taken from creedal/confessional documents (or heavily derived linguistically from them) that are at least 100 years old. What this tells me is not that these statements are horribly outdated in their linguistic mannerisms, but that contemporary Christians are woefully disassociated from the ways that Christians have spoken and written over 2,000 years. EDIT: I'm not saying familiarity with these things should be a requirement for entry, but if longterm Christian discipleship is not exposing believers to the way that the historic church speaks, then we're not doing our jobs right.

[@bethvaughn4231]

I think some things seem like word salad, and I have said that about some of the these polls, is that some of them is worded in a way that we are not used to. Words matter and how you express an idea matters. So there are some that I agree with some of it and not other parts of it or some I just flat out do not understand. I think my understanding of reading in general is fairly comprehensive . Some of the quotes are from distant past and/or some are from different traditions. Don't be so hard on some of us who don't get it. If you don't understand what they are trying to say, it seems like word salad.

[@vngelicath1580]

@bethvaughn4231 It *seems like word salad is a farcry from it being word salad is my point. After a long enough time being exposed to "Christianese," these paragraphs read fairly naturally. My frustration is with communities of faith that don't simply lower the bar of intellectual entry but dumb down the theological vocabulary and mock the carefully worded statements of our past (as irrelevant "word salad") -- I grant that not everyone is at the same place, but we should also be moving in a certain trajectory as a community to get more acquainted with how Christians talk. This has little to nothing to do with reading comprehension as such.

[@Ggdivhjkjl]

Only commenting to see if this ends up included in another video.

[@jhoughjr1]

Seems many in the audience arent far to the right of the curve. The idea that ultimaye truth shouldnt take multiple readings tells me those people have never done anything remotely complex and are utterly ignorant of the truth and how the world of knowledge is. Very lazy.

[@jamesparson]

I teach English as a foreign language. I speak 3 language besides English. And I am a computer programmer. Is that complex enough for you?

[@HenryLeslieGraham]

@@jamesparson dude whats your point. youre jumping all over the comment section like a monkey on a branch

[@andresmartinezramos7513]

Pretentious much?

[@lawrencehorner8418]

I think when people describe a statement as "word salad," they often mean that the statement is overly convoluted or misleading rather than confusing. It's a case of the "I don't think that word means what you think it means" meme. Also, could you do a video about the Appalachian churches that practice snake handling and the drinking of poison?

[@BethGrantDeRoos]

Ready to Harvest is the most thought provoking site, which I so appreciate. Often contemplate what Christ would have thought about having a religion named after him, while also wondering since so many Christians follow the teachings of Paul, why don't they call themselves Paulist's? What would the writers of the Torah/Tanakh (old testament) and those who wrote the new testament have thought of modern medicine, the vast choices in food, all the forms of travel to places they had never heard of much less seen, as well as the many forms of politics and educational choices? Since so many of the rules back then were based on the choices available at the time.

[@UniversalistSon9]

It’s sad that some might have bigotry against the Ethiopian Orthodox Church because they were one of the FIRST churches smh

[@FidgetyGuy]

I respect the Ethiopian Orthodox church because they preserved The Book of Enoch and The Division of Days. Sadly, the Ethiopian Orthodox churches have become apostate, because they adopted the practice of idolatry or iconography. The grave sin of idolatry includes making, possessing, or worshiping any image (carved or painted) of any created thing (insects, mammals, angels).

[@UniversalistSon9]

@@FidgetyGuy idk this is what they have said about Catholics too though idk how much of actual worshipping they do to the statues.

[@TheRealWilliamWhite]

​@@FidgetyGuyI'm not sure of the Ethiopian position but the Orthodox position in general, in my understanding, is that the icons aren't to be worshipped but represent the presence of the saints in the worship, the eternality of the eucharist, and to be reminders of past events and the history of the church. As far as praying to saints the official position is they aren't praying to saints but asking the saints to pray with them, similar to how you would ask any other brother or sister to pray with you.

[@DANtheMANofSIPA]

⁠@@FidgetyGuyThey have the Ark of The Covenant too. Edit lol i just finished reading the rest of your comment. Did Moses commit Idolatry when he fashioned the Golden Serpent in the desert? What about when the Israelites inscribed Cherubim into the Tabernacle? What about in Solomons temple? Did he commit idolatry in Gods temple where His presence truly dwelt? Do I commit idolatry when I draw a horse on a piece of paper? Are you Muslim? Get real dude

[@FidgetyGuy]

@@DANtheMANofSIPA You're speaking about Nehushtan; which is the symbol of a snake on a pole. Symbols are not prohibited by the law of God. The proto-Hebrew alphabet has the Aleph; which is the symbol of a steer head. We are allowed to use symbols for the purpose of illustration. Now, you mentioned this verse: Numbers 21:8-9 Then the Lord said to Moses, ‘Make a snake image and mount it on a pole. When anyone who is bitten looks at it, he will recover.’ So Moses made a bronze snake and mounted it on a pole. Whenever someone was bitten, and he looked at the bronze snake, he recovered. However, you failed to mention what was done to the pole: 2 Kings 18:4 He removed the high places, smashed the sacred stones and cut down the Asherah poles. He broke into pieces the bronze snake Moses had made, for up to that time the Israelites had been burning incense to it.

[@soberandwatching]

He that covereth his sins shall not prosper but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy

[@donalddodson7365]

I guess I live a sheltered life, thank God. Until this episode, from one of my favorite KZbin content creators, I had never heard of "word salad" before. This tiny sample of those so labeling these statements, seem to me to indicate their substandard level of reading comprehension.

[@MidwestArtMan]

I find the 9:42 question interesting because I'm Catholic and was always taught that natural family planning was the acceptable way of preventing pregnancy and could be quite effective. However, that's clearly doing something before/during intercourse to prevent conception.

[@majafleur9646]

Best theological channel on KZbin ever created.

[@joncollins7129]

Literally none of these were word salad. Some people just can't read.

[@Retro6502]

It seems a lot the things that get called word salad are really just statements that use complex sentence structure and more difficult vocabulary. I'd be curious to see the response to the same statements if they were re-written at the 7th-8th grade reading level, which is the average in the US.

[@joenuevo]

Regarding the comment at 4:07. I think some people use the term "word salad" for anything they don't agree with.

[@joenuevo]

An example of word salad is at 6:36 in the next poll question: “experience his love as wrath”. People may attempt to justify that as love not necessarily being an opposite of wrath (eg a loving parent can experience wrath toward a beloved child). However, hell is not a fleeting moment of wrath. It is eternal. If you received wrath day by day, hour by hour from a spouse, you would not mistake that for a loving marriage. So while I think Hell is the just punishment for the unrepentant sinner, I think it is theologically irresponsible to equate eternal wrath and love.

[@joenuevo]

I want to add a prediction to the poll at 6:36. Maybe I'm wrong, but the phrase "experience his love as wrath" sounds to me like it comes from that area of reformed theology that constantly appeals to piety to such a degree that it says God is justified in all sorts of malicious acts. We'll find out if I'm right or not.

[@joenuevo]

Turns out I was wrong, but in an ironic way. I’ve always thought it was really weird when Calvinists say things like this (taken from a recent meme someone sent me): > If God took from me my wife, children, health, every possession I own and let me die a cold, slow, painful death alone lying in a ditch and then [send] me straight to Hell, He would have done me no wrong. This weirdness is in the same universe as “experience his love as wrath” in that both attempt to say something meaningful about God, but wind up damaging God’s character as a result. The meme text implies a certain arbitrariness about the Bible, that God is not bound by what’s written there. If the speaker in the meme is indeed a Christian then capriciously sending him to hell is, in fact, unbiblical and wrong. The quote from the poll, similarly, implies that what’s written in the Bible about love is incorrect. 1 Corinthians 13, love keeps no record of wrongs. Eternal punishment is an eternal record of a wrong and cannot, therefor, be said to be a Biblical definition of love. Calling eternal wrath love is unbiblical and wrong. The irony here is that I mistook one weird, fringe band of thinkers for another.

[@dimitrimolotovvyacheslav4604]

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. " Ehm ekzcuse me that's word salad ☝️🤓

[@stevemcdonald4400]

not really, because from the context, it is plainly referring to Jesus, who some folks think of as a separate 'God', this verse is pointing out that Jesus is clearly the "I AM".

[@dimitrimolotovvyacheslav4604]

@@stevemcdonald4400 bruh I'm joking about the people who say everything is word salad

[@jamesearl389]

People that think some of these are word salad simply don’t read enough older literature. The first three, for example, were extremely well written. We are losing our ability to understand precise language. You see, that is the goal of a large vocabulary………….precision. When our societal vocabulary shrinks, we tend to lose the more exacting language for more ubiquitous “umbrella” words. We end up saying “I love pizza” and “I love my wife”. Were getting dumber

[@litigioussociety4249]

I attend a Lutheran church, and I have to say that Holy Spirit one is poorly worded, and I think it's mostly due to it being archaic, since it also says "to wit." The term instruments is the weirdest part of it, which I assume is referring to the water and word of baptism, and had it said that instead, it would have been clearer.

[@PhirePhlame]

I feel like a lot of deeper theological description can tend to feel like word salad to those not accustomed/prepared for such complex attempts to understand as fully as possible a God who is inherently greater than mortal understanding.

[@samppakoivula9977]

When it starts to resemble a text a lawayer would write, then it is more likely to be seen as word salad

[@onliwankannoli]

Great video! There are several reasons a statement can seem like word salad: It is only a couple sentences out of a longer work. The context may make it much clearer. Different Christian groups and denominations use different terminology, or define those terms differently, or just refer to the faith in different ways that others are unfamiliar with. Statements in other languages may lose something in translation to English. Even in English, people spoke quite differently a few hundred years ago. Some statements are so blatantly anti-Scriptural that it leaves us to shake our heads. Some are just plain poorly written.

[@jahveen]

Please make a poll where we guess what your denomination is.

[@swozzlesticks3068]

The old heads know (and you can find it by looking through his oldest videos) so it'd be pretty lopsided.

[@riverjao]

The Grace Communion International statement of wrath as love are neither word salad nor unorthodox. That position can be defended in Patristics as well as modern scholarship, and throughout Church history in general.

[@ryanjuanico4498]

Happy Sunday to all, and a blessed Lord's Day to all the saints of the holy catholic Church!

[@geordiewishart1683]

Happy sun worship day and greetings to all enslaved in mystery Babylon Rome

[@FidgetyGuy]

@@geordiewishart1683 Agreed. We should not use the pagan names for days in any aspect of worship. Instead, you might say, First Day, Third Day, and Sixth Day. That is the example provided in the Teaching of the Apostles (Didache).

[@btk1243]

The opposition to dance by some churches - I believe it's based on demographic survival (Hear me out) . . . If a female member meets a young man at a public school dance, and ultimately leaves the church, it affects the growth of the church . . . The church needs its young members to marry in the church, and propagate, increasing the size of the church. If one 18 year old female leaves the church, and has 5 children outside of the church, that means that your church would have 'lost" 5 potential members . . . I saw this first hand growing up in a small midwestern town, where classmates from some churches were not allowed to attend school dances.

[@CountJeffula]

What’s funny is that if the church becomes too controlling, it is prone to rapid collapse when people see the artificiality of the control and are tempted by the now even more enticing forbidden fruit. It’s the same with nudity. Make it taboo and it becomes more scandalous. If you treat it as no big thing, then it isn’t.

[@jamalcoriander6776]

@@CountJeffula churches have already moderately collapsed in rural areas; too late

[@kerriwilson7732]

I think the observation is good, but your conclusions are flawed. If my daughter (for example) attends a public dance and marries outside the church, my issue isn't just the shrinking congregation, it is primarily my daughter's spiritual well-being. I recognize sexual desire as a strong temptation and try to live my life in a way that avoids this; I also encourage my kids to recognize the temptation & consciously avoid it.

[@CountJeffula]

@@kerriwilson7732 I hope you don’t have kids because forcing them to forgo real love just to stay in a religion seems like the most asinine, backwards view ever.

[@pestoriusj]

WRT the dancing question, the issue of "liturgical dance" is probably part of why it got the unusual plurality of "agree more than disagree." At least to me, it seemed unobjectionable as a position statement on dancing itself, but you could sense that this might be the first part of an argument for something you do object to (if you object to liturgical dance, which I don't per se, but do in most cases where it is explicitly identified as such. Video on liturgical dance, maybe?)

[@TurtleMarcus]

Yeah, that threw me off too. I agree that there are styles of dance that are not inherently bad (i.e. unnecessarily sexualising) and that Christians can practice and enjoy, like line dance and various ballroom dances (waltz, step etc.). But the talk of "redeeming dance as an art" just has liturgical dance lurking around the corner, which I do oppose.

[@pestoriusj]

@@TurtleMarcus I think there is a place for something that could be called dance in the liturgy, but I don't think most westerners would identify it as such. Certainly it shouldn't be elaborate choreography clearly separable from the ordinary process of the service.

[@AlexDestroyerOfEarth]

It feels James 2:26 is always trotted out as a defense of works based salvation, but reading James really just agrees further with the Faith = Grace/Salvation then Works.

[@JeffMeadowsOutdoors]

I guessed that these were quotes from different denominations beliefs, just not exactly what was quoted.

[@mitrydatespruski]

I get hung up on certain wording in your polls, because, to me as a layperson, it seems that it's enough to misunderstand one highly specific theological word to commit a grave trinitarian or christological error lol

[@jamesparson]

Are you suggesting that words can be an ambiguous way to express ideas? Perhaps they can be subjective?

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

This is why all the endless philosophical debates about the trinity and christology are best avoided, fruitless things. I believe in God and I believe in Jesus, why does it matter if I can quote from memory some jargon dreamt up by the ancients about them being "homoioosios"? I feel the motivation for that stuff was often political.

[@jamesparson]

@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts I think it was all political