As usual, helpful and comprehensive. Thanks for the clarity. You have a wonderful ministry.
@ReadyToHarvest2 ай бұрын
Thank you, John.
@jbullforg2 ай бұрын
As someone who has had to live my entire life as celibate to honor God's command; When I was in my lowest point, and deepest struggle, I felt God say "Anything you include in your identity that is not 'My life is fully surrendered to Christ' is idolatry." Many days are still a struggle, and I often pray for strength to deal with the temptations and loneliness. But because my identity is in Christ alone and for Christ alone, I find strength to overcome my sinful brokenness.
@curiousingАй бұрын
God bless you. This should get pinned at the top. Your sacrifice will not be without reward!
@finnkuudere3516Ай бұрын
I converted to Christianity from atheism by way of reading philosophy. I converted in private and chose a church to attend based on the simplicity of their name. I didn't understand the nuances of denominations and theology I only understood that Christ died for my sin and that every knee shall bow to Christ. The scriptures that convinced me were Matthew 5 and 1st Corinthians 1 (very important). Immediately afterward I was overwhelmed by every Christian I met and half the unbelieving world with the, in my view, strange question, what kind of Christian are you? In hindsight I recognized my state as a new believer naturally holding to Baptist, Catholic, Presbyterian, Orthodox, Lutheran views of the Bible. This while simultaneously using a caricature of the different denominations to differentiate, judge and condemn different denominations. My point is that is I personally experience the political nature of Christendom and the desire to qualify myself before Christ. Or the contrast of: "my identity is in Christ alone and for Christ alone" My friend you are not alone. You and I are the same and we have been snatched from the condemning fire of our ego by Christ's strong and loving hand. Christ alone is also this former atheist's "mantra". When I was a new Christian I understood that given time I would also understand the nuances between denominations but I was forced to play politics and choose a side. Few ever asked me what school of philosophy I had previously adhered to. Only a few friends a Priest and my wife. The Elders and Pastors and Rabbis and Preachers didn't care, they wanted met to choose a side. So now it is the LGBTQ community's (which is hardly a community at all) turn. All of Christendom shouts in unison "choose a side, choose a side, choose our side or you're hell bound but quickly choose a side!"
@AlbertHess-xy7kyАй бұрын
The Joy of Celibacy.
@AlbertHess-xy7kyАй бұрын
@@finnkuudere3516 Christ can do anything he wants. he has free will.
@chillinchumАй бұрын
@@finnkuudere3516 What was that philosophy? Why do you believe the bible to be the standard of truth of the word of god? Why make the decision to make this change in the face of insufficient evidence? What do you think of the idea of someone praying to god asking the truth of such questions, and getting the answer that the bible is untrustworthy as it is not his inerrant word? What possible suggestions do you have for someone who tries to repent of their sins, but instead of being able to be happy as promised, they are only miserable? Any counter you have to this question I require some more backing up then just "they aren't trying to repent hard enough." Say something original. Why do we need jesus' sacrifice in the first place? I have several reasons to question this, and each one you will find to be next to impossible to counter without some apologetics that can just be torn down. ...and so on and so forth.
@UsefulCharts2 ай бұрын
Topic idea: Views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
@RedFeather362 ай бұрын
Love your work!
@andrewwinslow93152 ай бұрын
Honestly, I'd like to see where they lie on this issue
@ninjason572 ай бұрын
His channel is more about presenting information, not a commentary of his own views. Unless you mean presenting facts of views of certain church denominations on the I-P conflict. In that case I'd wager it's difficult to find that kind of information.
@robertcallahan71532 ай бұрын
@@ninjason57Consider that different denominations have different views on Israel’s role in end times. Depending on a denomination’s eschatology they may be very interested in this conflict (as it plays in to various end-times scenarios) or they may consider Israel as just another nation and not of any real Biblical interest or note for the New Testament Church. So you’re correct that it’s outside this channel’s scope to talk about the current conflict with Israel and Iran, talking about the various denominations eschatology may touch on it, and is in scope.
@RealUlrichLeland2 ай бұрын
@@ninjason57 I have once seen Useful Charts reply to a comment on one of his videos and say that he is "definitely not a Zionist", I imagine his thoughts on the Hamas conflict are complicated though.
@galaxyn32142 ай бұрын
The ability of this channel to explain controversial issues in such a parsimonious way is amazing.
@craigbenz48352 ай бұрын
Parsimonious? Really?
@AF-tv6uf2 ай бұрын
I was thinking the same. Not just parsimonious, but civil and balanced. This channel is a gem.
@octavianpopescu47762 ай бұрын
I don't think that word means what you think it means. Parsimonius = very unwilling to spend money or use resources (according to Google, I didn't know what that word meant until now).
@johndoe-ln4oi2 ай бұрын
@@octavianpopescu4776 Parsimonious also means restrained. I think that is what the OP is saying, and I think he is correct.
@angelawossname2 ай бұрын
No, on a couple of videos even conservatives have gently challenged him on constantly throwing gays under the bus. He is not at all neutral on this issue, he's even spread misinformation about it. I get that you may prefer that he promote your agenda, but most people would prefer not to be lied to, wherever they stand on the issue. He's incredibly manipulative and underhanded about it.
@michaelkistner6286Ай бұрын
Side X is the historical christianity position. Side A is the current cultural position reflected in the church. Side B is a compromise between them. Is it a healthy compromise or a slippery slope? I'll have to get back to you in 50 years for that one.
@DarenMehlАй бұрын
It is a slippery slope, and even Preston Sprinkle in his podcast they talk about how people on side B goes to side A when they experience "church hurt." Side B is as close to side A as you can get, especially ontologically speaking it's indistinguishable. It is a works based theology, "just don't do it." is their motto. Having lived in side b, it was depressing. Always seeing straight people and gay people having relationships, but none for you! Well, the truth sets you free. I'm side X. What was unfortunately NOT shared in this video is the reason side X is OPPOSITE of side A is not just because of the belief of the identity, behavior, but because the church doctrine of sanctification (such WERE some of you, 1 Cor 6:11) is the truth. I have experienced transformation in my desires, my same sex erotic attraction mortified, not by my will or works, but by Jesus. Side B says God doesn't do that!! Side X is freedom from homosexuality, restoration to heterosexuality, which is how God made EVERY person. Side B teaches God doesn't will to restore us. That sin remains until we die.
@OnRoadsLessTraveledАй бұрын
If you speak only of the aspects of a male having sex with a male, then perhaps there is a point about the historicity of Side X. But to claim that religious circles had considered one's natural orientation prior to the 19th century, when the word "homosexual" was coined, is an anachronism. My point is not to start an argument here but to call people to a more literal view of scripture where nothing is added, changed or removed.
@AlexsGoogleAccount16 сағат бұрын
To be Side X, you must deny the reality of what sexual orientation is and how it works. A "gay Christian" is a "Christian who experiences same-sex attractions" and vice versa. Neither is sinful by any self-consistent theological framework. The "It's not a sin to be gay, just a sin to *act on it*" approach is the only "reasonable" anti-LGBTQ+ position for Christians.
@ChristianSalzillo2 ай бұрын
Wow man, this was an incredibly thorough, caring and helpful video on a complex and divisive topic. Great job!
@VeritasVivet2 ай бұрын
This conflict may be divisive, but it is painfully simple. Homosexuality violates natural law, and thus it is immoral. End of story.
@carsonianthegreat4672Ай бұрын
The Catholic Church is “Side Y.” Side Y can be summarized like this: 1) homosexual attraction (as the the Catechism teaches) is “intrinsically disordered” 2) the mere experience of temptation is not itself a personally culpable sin. Acting/dwelling in the temptation is sinful 3) gay men are banned from entering the seminary/priesthood 4) the use of terms like “a Christian who struggles with same-sex attraction” can be allowed in certain contexts, so long as the primary identifier remains Christian and not the attraction. Terms like “gay Christian” are typically discouraged/seen as needlessly confusing/imprudent
@spiffygonzales5160Ай бұрын
As a protestant I gotta agree with the Catholics on this one. You can't be a gay Christian, but you can be a Christian despite having gay feelings.
@HoldFast-r7g13 күн бұрын
That is the Catholic Church's position, but that's not a Side Y position, it's a Side B position. Side Y tries to straddle between Sides A and B, and claims both have incorrect points.
@theholymackerel10667 күн бұрын
Side Y is "Y would you have sex at all ever?"
@AlexsGoogleAccount16 сағат бұрын
If you hold the position that you cannot consider yourself a "gay Christian" you are not Side B. Churches like that prefer terms like "same-sex attracted" which are sterilized, more "clinical" sounding terms in order to shed the positive connotation of words like "gay". You are "gay" if you are attracted to the same sex, regardless of whether you choose to act on those attractions or have sex at all.
@EarlSoC2 ай бұрын
Hey R2H, what's it like being the realest dude in the game?
@mikewilliams60252 ай бұрын
A. It's fine. B. It's fine but with caveats. C. It's not fine. D. It's not fine but with caveats. E. Just see the results.
@wendyleeconnelly2939Ай бұрын
@@mikewilliams6025Just see results
@theokra2 ай бұрын
It's actually quite sad to see the common western Christian throw away their faith over a topic like this.
@saldol98622 ай бұрын
Yeah it’s weird seeing splits over this. One would think splits would happen more on the absolute core fundamentals like Christology or church polity or eschatology, but nope for some reason Protestant churches in America divide themselves over something very material with an obvious answer.
@jdamsel82122 ай бұрын
@@saldol9862What is the obvious answer?
@RonJohn632 ай бұрын
It's as if there's some sort of Agenda on the side of homosexuality proponents.
@awildtannerwasfound50452 ай бұрын
@@jdamsel8212The Bible condemns homosexuality several times in Leviticus, Roman’s, Corinthians, and possibly Timothy. There is little question.
@theokra2 ай бұрын
@@saldol9862 We see the same happening with lay Catholics too. How many ordinary European Catholics support LGBT and other unChristian cultural norms? A lot, maybe even a majority. Even American Catholics like Joe Biden are pro-LGBT and pro-abortion.
@Sir_Howie2 ай бұрын
How about instead of trying to identify as a gay Christian, you just identify as Christian and affirm the Bible's teaching on marriage? Our identity is in Christ, not our sexuality. The modern world is obsessed with sexuality because it is a worship of the self. No one is identifying as an alcoholic Christian or adulterous Christians because our sins don't define us anymore.
@CountJeffula2 ай бұрын
If our identity is in Christ, then how can women be Christians? They are identifying as a man, which makes them trans, which is wrong per conservative Christianity. Ergo, women can’t be Christians.
@icecoolguita2 ай бұрын
Amen to this, the world is trying to make sexuality our identity. If we are truly born again, we have died. Our new life is in Christ.
@russellmiles28612 ай бұрын
Because most churches defy the Bible's teaching on marriage.
@OrthoUnknown2 ай бұрын
Bingo!
@royjohnson4652 ай бұрын
YES, no identifies as a Cat Burglar Night Thief Christian, or (someone who sleeps with prostitutes once a week on a regular basis being a prostitutes customer) a John Christian.
@sammysamlovescats2 ай бұрын
As an outside viewer that just finds studying religion fascinating, I think a lot of this discussion shows that there is a distinct difference between "What a denomination teaches" and "What the people in the church believe and do." Sure, there will be people that align completely with the denomination, but in my experience and what I see in discussions like this is that that's far from unanimous. It shows that religions are more complicated than just "official teachings"
@PetarStamenkovic2 ай бұрын
You could also see how Christianity got the diagnosis of human condition right. We are lovers of lies and darkness. We want to make reality bend to our desires. This got us kicked out of Eden. This also explains all the denominations. People would rather create a new one that fits their desires.
@sammysamlovescats2 ай бұрын
@@PetarStamenkovic I mean, you could say that about most religions really. Most religions have stuff to say about the human condition, and also have a variety of denominations and groups
@jwilsonhandmadeknives27602 ай бұрын
the underlying problem being "what a denomination teaches". If your church / faith claims that everyone gets to interpret scripture however they like, they don't have a leg to stand on when the congregation falls into heresy.
@PetarStamenkovic2 ай бұрын
@@sammysamlovescats It is true that division and confusion is not unique to Christianity, but Christianity gets it right on any topic. Take for example what human nature is. Many people, religions and worldviews insist that we, humans, are fundamentally good and that we like truth. Those religions and philosophies are dangerously wrong. Truth unites, lies fracture. Truth is one, lies are innumerable. Only truth can save us.
@arubaga2 ай бұрын
Christianity gets it wrong a lot of times. It is only through the grace of God that we are not destroyed a few times already. Humanity are learning, but also making new mistakes. Don't cover up failures, but serve as witness so others can learn.
@MrJimmy-fl2bn2 ай бұрын
If you’re going to allow homosexuality, why won’t you allow other types of sexuality, such as polygamy?
@kingpetra68862 ай бұрын
Let's just stick to queer and straight; keep it simple and real.
@mattc16472 ай бұрын
Guarantee that Mormons will be the last ones to accept Polygamy again
@jdamsel82122 ай бұрын
@@kingpetra6886Polygamy has historically been far more widespread and accepted practice. It also has much more biblical support.
@leoinsf2 ай бұрын
Gays are born gay! Being gay is not - is not - a choice!!! Yes, indiscriminate sexuality is a choice, but choosing a male partner and not a woman for a gay person is not a choice! After 88 years of life, I can say this. Polygamy is a choice pure and simple! These are not really comparable!
@deprogrammershepherd12342 ай бұрын
@@leoinsf You might get it right if you live another 88 years, otherwise you'll get it right at the Gate much sooner.
@tvmasterc2 ай бұрын
I am side B, calling myself a gay Christian. This offends many people and they seem to not care that I have been celibate 20 years. Part of coming to the Lord was admitting what I am, and that many of my behaviors was not grieving for my best friend who committed suicide a long time ago. I still get called the 'F' word, also sodomite and abomination (also apostate, a JW thing). I no longer care what a mere man calls me. I only care what the Living God thinks of me.
@ProselyteofYah2 ай бұрын
It was brave of you to admit that. I can appreciate how much of a challenge it must be to me a faithful Christian and living a pure life with such orientation being part of your makeup. My prayers for you, and God's blessings
@MartinHansenGamer2 ай бұрын
I really relate to what you’re saying as a bisexual Christian! People really don’t understand why someone could call themselves a queer and also a Christian, God bless you!
@alisterrebelo90132 ай бұрын
You are really a Side Y Christian because at the core it seems that you acknowledge that your identity is a "child of God" trumps all other identities, as seen by your commitment to celibacy for 20 years. Side A: Gay sex is not a sin. Side B: Gay sex is a sin, but the "gay" identity is not. Side Y: The "gay" identity is a sin, but same-sex attraction is not. Side X: Same-sex attraction is a sin.
@javiervega10652 ай бұрын
You must try conversion therapy
@dan690522 ай бұрын
truth be known If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
@hesthomas2 ай бұрын
If you want to actually read a comment from someone experienced in this space: I have been in SSA/Side B land for years (I've been to Revoice and have met many of the individuals and organizations mentioned here). And I will say, I think this topic has become confusing and almost unnavigable semantically for Christians who have not studied or lived within this debate. Everyday christians aren't being offered these abstract terms like 'homosexualism' or 'homosexual self-conception' from the pews, and the 'Side ABXY' whatever language does nothing to bring clarity or goodwill to the conversation. I see many Christians just deciding that this topic does not warrant nuance (unlike many other theological topics which widely receive sympathy and where complex views are respected) perhaps because the terminology feels meaningless and too far removed from Scripture itself. But instead of listening to those who can actually speak to the queer x Christian intersection with meaningful Biblical interpretation that gets deeper than 'Side [Blank]' sort of language, many actively seek to just silence what they see as gay Christian 'slippery slope' BS by throwing a meaningless one-liner into the comment sections of content like this and giving themselves a pat on the back for their superior Scriptural interpretations. (Do I have to say - WWJD folks?) But regardless of what these denominations are publishing from their many 'assemblies', those of us who are not finding ourselves within heterosexuality cannot just sit by and wait for our faith communities to decide what they will let us do. There's a reason that the Side B community has primarily existed online and not in actual church spaces so far. We need to know for ourselves what godly embodiment of all sexualities looks like now, not in 2026 EPC. These 'statements on human sexuality' feel more like houses built on sand than substantial takes on what the Bible says. They keep changing, so we haven't been able to rely on churches being safe spaces as a result no matter what 'side' we land on. Thank you for your covering of this topic.
@dan690522 ай бұрын
If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
@CrossAndWindMinistriesАй бұрын
We must continue to share Truth - in 2008, I was a gay-identified man, in a committed, monogamous same-sex relationship, active in an affirming church, where we called ourselves gay Christians. Then I found myself in an ICU where the medical team classified me clinically dead after a 22-minute flatline. I experienced death, judgement and hell. When I couldn’t take any more demonic torment, I cried out in repentance, “Jesus!” and I heard the Savior say, “I am here.” At that moment, I saw with my eyes the Wind of the Holy Spirit fill my ICU and with great power, He pick up Satan and the demonic and blew them out of the room. On that day, my life changed, the redemptive Blood of Jesus cleared my mind of perversion, and completely healed and restored every failing organ. Glory to God!
@whosflair3716Ай бұрын
Thank you for your testimony 🙏
@downenout8705Ай бұрын
Reminds me of the last line in 1984 "He loved big brother".
@kittyborfАй бұрын
it's not uncommon to hallucinate when you flatline.
@CrossAndWindMinistriesАй бұрын
@@kittyborf no hallucinations here
@downenout8705Ай бұрын
@@CrossAndWindMinistries I am unaware of any reliable mechanism that is able to differentiate between a "natural" NDE and a "supernatural" NDE. I would ask you to cite the peer reviewed and published paper that you based your determination on, but I know that you won't because you can't because you have nothing. You claim to have had an experience, so now you believe you are the "special one" who out of the billions of non Christians on the planet your god chose to turn up and introduce itself, but instead of presenting your evidence of this encounter and winning yourself the Templeton prize, you post on KZbin. Lmfao
@EstebanGunn2 ай бұрын
I like how Protestants spring into action against Catholics with "justification through faith alone," but then when it comes to sexuality, suddenly the theology becomes works-based.
@BotPlays22222 ай бұрын
Justification by faith alonene does not mean sin doesnt exist
@DanHutchings-xx7ug2 ай бұрын
@@BotPlays2222 James 2:14-26
@sufiameen60932 ай бұрын
Sola Scriptura is Denied by Protestants who Ignore the clear abomination of sinful apostacy.
@EstebanGunn2 ай бұрын
@@BotPlays2222 And sin is not meant to be fetishized into something to enforce social hierarchies.
@PaulsWanderings2 ай бұрын
@@sufiameen6093 it's funny when you ask a non-Catholic Christian to show you in the Bible where sola scriptura can be found they never have and answer because it's not in there. What came before the Bible was TRADITION which they deny.
@jeffkardosjr.38252 ай бұрын
And here I thought SSA meant Social Security Administration.
@curiousingАй бұрын
🤣
@Erick-zp8vmАй бұрын
Thats a good one.... when I hear SSA I think of social security first!
@AlexsGoogleAccount16 сағат бұрын
Continue using it. "Same-sex attracted" exists in order to provide a sterilized, more clinical-sounding term that paints sexual orientation as an affliction or a struggle. If someone abbreviated it to just SSA, I'll occasionally pretend I don't know what their acronym is supposed to mean.
@vettesquared2 ай бұрын
Your videos are great! They provide excellent information on the subject matter for further reflection. Keep 'em coming! Thanks for all your hard work and analysis!
@AlanWilkersonАй бұрын
I am an EPC teaching elder (retired) and was not at the GA. I want to thank you for your attention to this ongoing issue in all of the Kingdom. I do not know what the future holds but I know who is in charge... Thanks again and I look forward to your other posts
@Jerome6162 ай бұрын
Still waiting for that population analysis video about the Catholic Church... This topic was very interesting, we rarely hear the actual theological distinctions of such denominations in their own words. I love all of these topics you do, keep em coming!
@ReadyToHarvest2 ай бұрын
Thanks! I do want to do more videos on stats but I have to keep them spread out, some people don't enjoy them!
@dan690522 ай бұрын
If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
@Jerome6162 ай бұрын
@@ReadyToHarvest ❤️
@StevenGreenGuz2 ай бұрын
Maybe the PCA should also prohibit terms like “Conservative Christian”, Reformed Christian”, “Calvinist Christian”, and “American Christian”. Because those terms also undermine the individual’s identity as new creations in Christ.
@neoturfmasterMVS2 ай бұрын
None of those additions are sin. Rather those are greater defining terms within Christianity. Akin to saying Dark Blue or Hot Day. The term Gay Christian is as helpful or proper as describing oneself as Right Handed Christian or Horny Christian.
@GermanShepherd19832 ай бұрын
I'm Leary of any conservative Calvinist denomination. They are the most judgmental and hatefilled denominations out there.
@censoredanon89282 ай бұрын
"Gay" or any sort of homosexual term is not rightly applicable to any Christian and if such a person calls themselves that, then they are no Christian.
@lmm-op7em2 ай бұрын
Clearly they’re targeting identifiers that unite sinfulness to the title and identity of “Christian” Obviously they wouldn’t do that because it’s not believed to be a sin to be Calvinist, conservative, or reformed. Saying something like, “reformed Christian” just clearly identifies your theological standings quickly and succinctly.
@StevenGreenGuz2 ай бұрын
@@censoredanon8928 , Would you say the same about a sober alcoholic? An alcoholic is always an alcoholic. If a celibate gay person is sinning then so is a teetotal alcoholic. A Calvinist is a heretic, I’d rather fellowship with a gay Christian than a heretic.
@dijahsyoutubechannel2 ай бұрын
i love learning about religion, but i actually think my favorite part of this channel is seeing everyone in the comments asserting their own conflicting religious opinions as the most obvious truth. fascinating
@lavieestlenfer2 ай бұрын
It's like watching Star Trek fans argue over canon, only with more threats.
@VirginMostPowerfull2 ай бұрын
Every topic is like this, especially politics. Religion at least has the excuse that it is the most important thing in life because it deals with ultimate truth.
@dijahsyoutubechannel2 ай бұрын
@@VirginMostPowerfull i think that's exactly what makes religious topics so interesting to me. i don't believe in any gods or supernatural things, so i observe religion through a sociological / psychological lens. it's interesting to see how many "ultimate truths" there are to different people
@octavianpopescu47762 ай бұрын
I get it. As an Eastern Orthodox, I don't have any strong views on homosexuality and transgenderism in other faiths (they can do whatever they like as far as I'm concerned), but it is interesting to see how passionate people in the US are about this niche topic.
@dijahsyoutubechannel2 ай бұрын
@@octavianpopescu4776 i think people generally tend to feel more passionate about the topics that personally effect them, and less about the topics that don't personally effect them
@chrisray96532 ай бұрын
Could you go over the SBC and the Nicene Creed? There was a recent huff-n-puff about it at the conference.
@alisterrebelo90132 ай бұрын
A huff and puff that would've blown their house down if they had accepted the Nicene Creed, this little line being the explosive bit, "We believe in one baptism for the forgiveness/remission of sins".
@24psmithАй бұрын
@alisterrebelo9013 You should check out Gavin Ortlund's recent video discussing this. He provides a good case for why this line from the Nicene Creed isn't a problematic statement for the SBC to affirm. It is, after all, a direct quote (or nearly so) from Scripture.
@carsonianthegreat4672Ай бұрын
@@24psmithOrtlund did violence to the Creed in his “explanation.” He twisted the Nicene Creek’s verbiage to mean something that the Council Fathers did not accept.
@Norascats2 ай бұрын
The real issue is about leaders sexually abusing their subordinates. Whether priests, ministers, teachers, or any other authority, leaders should not indulge their sexual desires upon a person in their charge.
@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts2 ай бұрын
Certainly that's a big issue, though secular institutions are full of sexual abuse while only criticising others. Statistics suggest that opposing homosexuality helps in combating sexual abuse, but much more is also needed.
@Lando_P12 ай бұрын
That’s unrelated. The majority of those instances are against the opposite gender.
@Lando_P12 ай бұрын
@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts That’s not true. I just found multiple studies from government agencies that say the percentage of abusers that are homosexual is 0% to 3.1%. These limits are within current estimates of the prevalence of homosexuality in the general community.
@jamesparson2 ай бұрын
The don't care about that.
@laratho622 ай бұрын
@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts do you have a source for these statistics you're referencing?
@schwarzestiefel2 ай бұрын
When Martin Luther nailed his theses to that door, and Baptists maintained that Christians needed no intermediary between them and God, then Protestants have schismed and schismed over and over-over doctrine and racism, over politics and patriarchy. Why should any LGBTQ+ person even consider communing with a church that denigrates them? There are plenty of faiths that welcome them, who can find no hatred in what Christ said in the Gospels. That’s the Protestant way-be your own interpreter of Christianity and commune with people you can agree with.
@TheNabOwnzz2 ай бұрын
Should change your name to schwarzesteufel and not tiefel. More accurate.
@bubbag88952 ай бұрын
Sinners should just find churches that accept their sins. I'm looking for one that affirms my desire to have sex with women I'm not married to. Know any?
@sarahm55592 ай бұрын
Amen
@pedroguimaraes60942 ай бұрын
No it is not, that is why Lutherans, Presbyterians, Reformed and Anglicans, both churches that came from the Reformation, are Confessional
@RedFeather362 ай бұрын
@@TheNabOwnzz LOL
@TzionАй бұрын
I do think you can be gay (albeit celibate) and a Christian. It just doesn't seem helpful to identify as a "gay Christian", since it implies that there is a difference between gay and straight Christianity. Whatever defects of character we have should not be used as modifiers for our shared faith in Christ. And those defects DEFINITELY should not be celebrated with the language and symbolism of "pride" or a sense of solidarity with those who openly practice LGBT lifestyles.
@MAMorenoАй бұрын
I don't think it should be regarded as an identity so much as an explanation. And by an explanation, I mean something that an adult male can honestly tell people when they walk up to him at a church service and say for the thousandth time, "Why don't you just find a nice girl and settle down?" (Same with an adult woman, obviously, but they often seem to be regarded as a lower priority for some reason.) The issue with Side X is that it may only exacerbate such social pressures for a celibate "gay" person, potentially leading to an unwise and ill-fated marriage that is harmful to everyone involved.
@TzionАй бұрын
@@MAMoreno You don't have to be gay to be pressured into a bad marriage.
@AlexsGoogleAccount16 сағат бұрын
Your identity is the collection of all things that you hold to be true about yourself. I am a man; I am diabetic; I am a website designer; I am a Midwesterner; I am engaged; I am a Unitarian Universalist. Because I hold these things to be true about myself, I "identify" as those things. Holding an aspect of my identity does not invalidate another aspect of it. For example, me "identifying as diabetic" does not make me a bad "website designer". This seems obvious. Labels are often combined when the context calls for it. For example, a Bible Study might be formed for Single Christian Men in order to discuss issues that primarily affect Christian Men when they're trying to date or navigate relationships. A person who resonates with this group is "identifying" as Single, as a Christian, and as a Man. This does not mean he is making being a Man into an idol or making being Single into an idol and it would be RIDICULOUS to tell him to stop identifying as a man or as single because HIS IDENTITY IS IN CHRIST! In discussions about LGBTQ+ issues in the church, the context immediately begs where people who are LGBTQ+ and are Christians fit in the Church and what they are allowed to do. A Christian who is same-sex attracted is a "gay Christian" regardless of whether they "act on it". And combining labels like these in a discussion is a common convention of the English language that we do all the time without thinking about it (like addressing "Single Men"). Them referring to themselves as a "gay Christian" is in no way tarnishing their identity as a "Christian".
@thetraditionalist2 ай бұрын
1st! Last time I was this early, the position on homosexuality was clear
@theaviator062 ай бұрын
It is clear. Lost modern society is pushing this issue.
@jdotoz2 ай бұрын
It still is.
@ABLEARC2 ай бұрын
Come back a year from now and it will be the same.
@royjohnson4652 ай бұрын
Yes it is 100% crystal clear:: (New International Version) Leviticus 18:22 Leviticus 20:13 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 1 Timothy 1:9-10 Romans 1:26-28 ======= 1 Corinthians 7:2 Mark 10:6-9 Jude 1:7
@dan690522 ай бұрын
If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
@brianwhite21042 ай бұрын
Now I'm curious what Side Y is
@MAMoreno2 ай бұрын
It agrees with Side X that same-sex identification is wholly unacceptable, but it agrees with Side B that conversion therapy is ineffective.
@brianwhite21042 ай бұрын
@@MAMoreno Thanks
@tylerborgard88052 ай бұрын
Side Y lies between Side B and Side X. Basically, the spectrum of "sides" looks like this: Side A: Gay sex is not a sin. Side B: Gay sex is a sin, but the "gay" identity is not. Side Y: The "gay" identity is a sin, but same-sex attraction is not. Side X: Same-sex attraction is a sin.
@reeferfranklin2 ай бұрын
Side Y is likely the more correct view theologically...what I'd like to know is what denominations actually fall into the category of Side Y.
@neoturfmasterMVS2 ай бұрын
@@reeferfranklin None. If you think Y is the correct view, you are outside of all theological movements be it conservative or liberal. Its good to know where one stands, even if alone.
@slipstream45722 ай бұрын
2 Timothy 4:3 (CSB) "For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, will multiply teachers for themselves because they have an itch to hear what they want to hear"
@CUDA1970Terry2 ай бұрын
Sorry, there is no such thing as a gay Christian. Either Scripture is right or there is no God, only gods. I'm siding with Scripture.
@oscargr_2 ай бұрын
Scripture is wrong, there is still a God You and gay Christians are siding with Scripture.
@CUDA1970Terry2 ай бұрын
@@oscargr_ If Scripture is wrong, where do you turn, self, New York Times or Gypsies?
@oscargr_2 ай бұрын
@@CUDA1970Terry Even if you think scripture is right, you already turn to self. It's always YOUR interpretation of scripture.
@bernie42682 ай бұрын
It certainly appears that sexual orientation is not chosen at some exact moment of a child’s life. It makes sense that there would be some aspects of human nature and identity that we understand more now than the wandering tribes 4,000 years ago. There CAN be a distinction made between promiscuous behaviour and committed monogamous behaviour. It does seem a tad silly that homosexual people are expected to be celibate and chaste and never have sex ever - as if they were monks - or marry someone they are not attracted to. Gay people have the same capacity for care, nurturing, kindness, love, selflessness and commitment given the opportunity. How about we Christians act inclusively until we are certain? In other words - unconditional love is a choice we can make. Conscience can guide each individual to God’s will in this matter in their life.
@Aircalibur2 ай бұрын
Of course there are gay Christians, just as there are Christian alcoholics and Christian adulterers. There are even Christian murderers and rapists. Christians sin too.
@T-412 ай бұрын
Well you keep doing it. The amount and quality level of information you share is first rate! Thank you.
@stephenterrill84272 ай бұрын
Very well researched. I know the late Rev. Keller came up in this a lot, he was one of the authors of the PCA’s position paper on sexuality that came out in 2020.
@dan690522 ай бұрын
If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
@MartinHansenGamer2 ай бұрын
As a bisexual Christian I’m side B all the way, and it’s a complex issue. People often wonder why we need to emphasize that we are not straight, but the thing is that all the trauma, difficulties and self hate we would have to go through dealing with the opinions and thoughts of others inn the Christian community, it’s really a lot. So it’s not that weird LGBTQ Christian’s are leaving churches as they have been treated poorly and often been misunderstood…we have to understand that we all are sinners and we all are on the same line in front of God, that’s what the gospel is all about! We all need grace and forgiveness from God, gays aren’t more sinful just because they have different temptation than straights. So I have no problem using bisexual Christian as a description because I would like to signal to others that no matter what you struggle with or deal with you can have a relationship with Jesus and be saved, and also create a loving and caring community for all people who have faith inn Jesus Christ!
@tylerjornov2 ай бұрын
Your belief fundamentally undermines the doctrine of sanctification. If you really believe that God condemns any same-sex relationship you may want to have, why does He not help you overcome your desires? And why are the desires themselves somehow okay? Is it okay to “look but don’t touch?” And don’t misunderstand me - I’m not condemning you for your bisexuality. I personally am a gay man. But the issue is, if you really believe Jesus when He condemns hatred and lust along with murder and adultery, then to remain logically consistent you have to either reject that same-sex relationships are sinful, or you would have to “mortify your desires” by becoming heterosexual/asexual. Which I’m sure you know is impossible. Please, reconsider what you believe about this issue. God is good and does not let His people anguish in sinful desires with no sign of sanctification. Your Heavenly Father loves you and wants what’s best for you. If He does not help you to overcome your desires to be in a gay relationship, it’s because there was nothing that needed to be overcome in the first place.
@christusenciaga2 ай бұрын
@@tylerjornov I’m not even SSA and what you said was very edifying for me… I struggle with p*** and other temptations to adultery with women. What you said is very true. And God lets us suffer unto sanctification.
@clivejungle69992 ай бұрын
We are all sinners and all need to sincerely repent. The issue is that some dont believe homosexual acts need repentance. The people who struggle with same sex attraction, but repent when they trip up are to be lauded for their commitment to holiness in a society that celebrates such sin.
@abaddon21482 ай бұрын
@@tylerjornov Amen, this is a beautiful comment that sums up at least some of the conflicts I have as a gender diverse individual. God bless you.
@RationalistMH2 ай бұрын
@@tylerjornovso what ur saying is side A is correct since ‘conversion’ is so rare?
@FriarJoe662 ай бұрын
As an affirming Christian, I wish more denominations would simply allow for diversity of belief in this area. We should show love to all people but beyond showing that love we should not be splitting our churches apart over this.
@abaddon21482 ай бұрын
Not going to happen, unfortunately. That requires nonaffirming Christians to concede that others think and act differently within their own lives, and there's nothing they can do about it. Which they view as "encouraging sin". 🤦♂️
@LN372752 ай бұрын
But every time they "allow for diversity of belief", the Progressive Christians just wait until they have 51% of the power, then start trying to purge and exclude everyone who won't agree with them. Not that traditional Christians can really complain, since that's what Christianity itself did in Rome. Appealing for others to have tolerance and diversity until you're the majority, then instantly flipping and betraying those ideals.
@FriarJoe662 ай бұрын
@@abaddon2148 unfortunately there is plenty of judgement happening from the affirming side as well. Just recently a clergy person of relatively high standing in my denomination expressed that they were not saddened at the conservative churches leaving, it gave off kind of a “good riddance” attitude that I think is very inappropriate.
@dan690522 ай бұрын
right on If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
@theeternalsbeliever17792 ай бұрын
When it comes to the Word of God, there is not "allowing for diversity of belief". 1 Cor. 1 plainly shows the apostle Paul preaching that Christians MUST believe the _same_ doctrines, have the _same_ judgement, and practice the _same_ traditions. The "love" you're talking about isn't true love. It's a lie. Love doesn't affirm or support lawless living, let alone allow ppl to destroy themselves by telling them that what they're doing is okay.
@crosisofborg55242 ай бұрын
I will not ignore scripture just to satisfy social trends.
@downenout87052 ай бұрын
Bet you eat shellfish, wear mixed fabrics and haven't given away all your possessions. You need to read Matthew 7: 1-5 and do better.
@crosisofborg55242 ай бұрын
The Bible calls homosexuality an abomination. Sorry but I agree and will never go to a church that supports it.
@crosisofborg55242 ай бұрын
The New Testament says nothing about shellfish or mixed fabrics. It does speak against lgbt.
@downenout87052 ай бұрын
@@crosisofborg5524 So you discount the old testament, without which the is no original sin, no ten commandments and no need for the sacrifice of Jesus, but at least you get to keep the slavery.
@downenout87052 ай бұрын
@@crosisofborg5524 So did your god change its mind and by omission it becomes no longer a sin to eat shellfish and wear mixed fabrics.
@mikewilliams60252 ай бұрын
It seems to me that Church of the Nazarene calling themselves side B was absolutely not mandated by their doctrinal statements. Someone inside the denomination is trying to tip the scales on that one.
@simonkraemer37252 ай бұрын
That were quite interesting cases how denominations deal with LGBTQ issues that aren’t affirming. The official position of the Catholic Church is probably best described by side-B since conversion therapy is rejected and the church acknowledges that there are people with same sex attractions btw. I would say the topic of how to minister to LGBTQ people is very important. You can find a lot of homophobic comments on the internet (also below this video) that aren’t in any way charitable towards gay Christians and just view their existence as a bogeyman towards „biblical“ Christianity. That this hate leads to self-doubt and hurting among LGBTQ Christians is self-evident. So it’s really important to have ministries that walk with LGBTQ Christians in love and be on their eye level and not from above - and I don’t see how side x can archive that in any way
@RationalistMH2 ай бұрын
No matter how you cut it, expecting gay people to stay celibate for life for no reason other than ‘the bible said so’ is itself what is hurting and keeping lgbt ppl away from your Churches. Why don’t you go ask straight people to do that and let me know how they react! Your own Pope refers to gay people using slurs. Religion is a human made invention used to oppress others, nothing more, nothing less.
@fujikokunАй бұрын
Catholic Church is side Y if anything
@simonkraemer3725Ай бұрын
@@fujikokun well one very prominent side b Christian that‘s also Catholic is Eve Tushnet. I would interpret the statements from the current Vatican magisterium in context with the Catholic teachings on sex and marriage as a side b approach, there are enough Catholic lgbt organizations and I think the Catholic church doesn’t prohibit the use of the word „gay Christian“, is against the criminalization of homosexual activities and conversion therapy.
@RationalistMHАй бұрын
@@simonkraemer3725 You can find black people that are pro slavery. 99% of gay people do not accept your bigoted ideology that threatens them with eternity in hell for daring to love a person of the same sex. And 99% of straight Christians wouldn’t accept lifelong celibacy either.
@MAMorenoАй бұрын
@@RationalistMH I mean, doesn't the Catholic church ask all of its priests, bishops, friars, monks, and nuns to do that? It also teaches its married couples to avoid contraceptive methods (beyond keeping up with the menstrual cycle to determine when the wife is less likely to be fertile), thereby limiting their sexual behavior to a far larger degree than most Protestants do. So yeah, I think it's absolutely consistent with the general Vatican policies on sex.
@PetarStamenkovic2 ай бұрын
As an Eastern Orthodox, it gives me no joy to see so many churches struggle with politics and make way for sin.
@michaelg49192 ай бұрын
this is very informative. thank you!
@privatecitizen40012 ай бұрын
If only the bible had clearly addressed this issue in multiple places, both old and new testament.....
@schwarzestiefel2 ай бұрын
Yeah, what did Jesus say?…yeah I thought so.
@randombanana37712 ай бұрын
@@schwarzestiefel “He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”” Matthew 19:4-6
@frogtownroad91042 ай бұрын
Yeah if you’re only it did but it doesn’t.
@saveasdoc2 ай бұрын
@randombanana3771 Most people who cite this passage don't understand the reason why Jesus is appealing to Genesis. He was asked a question about *divorce.* So, he talks about the nature of the martial bond between a man and woman as seen in Genesis 2, viewing it as the first example of a one-flesh union as a covenantal bond, so it needs to be upheld at all costs. Jesus is not making a statement about what the gender of the partners must be, because if he were, that would be entirely irrelevant to the question and confusing to his audience. He was asked about a man divorcing his wife, so he talks about a man and woman in marriage as an example. To extrapolate otherwise from the text is to read an answer back into it with a topic and answer Jesus never directly addressed.
@matnic_66232 ай бұрын
@@saveasdoc Replier almost definitely knows this. His point is the only things Christ said about marriage, sex ect. is exclusively related to men and woman. Christ clearly reaffirms Genesis as the ideal for marriage, one man, one woman, one flesh not to be seperated. (the not seperating part being his main focus.) So to somehow think that Christ would have supported gay marriage despite 1. everything else in the bible being aganist it, and 2. Christ only giving instruction to male and female relationships, is insane. (Obviously I don't know what your stance is, maybe you were just saying that it isn't the best text to go off, which I would basically agree with)
@crosisofborg55242 ай бұрын
KZbin is heterophobic
@RationalistMH2 ай бұрын
Heterophobia does not exist. You need to pretend it does to persecute gay people. Its called a ‘victim-perpetrator’ reversal, classic to all fascist ideologies
@frogtownroad9104Ай бұрын
Yes KZbin is so scared of guys that wear cargo shorts and call strangers f*ggots.
@Mr_Gabbles28 күн бұрын
The most absurd thing with side B is allowing LGBT into the clergy
@jehl1963Ай бұрын
As Augustine said -- "Love the sinner, hate the sin". Sin is sin, and if we accept the Bible as inerrant, we can't just define away sin. But I think that we've also let the conversation get wrongly defined by expressions such as "Gay Christian". The Devil would love to see us define ourselves that way, because it subverts our belief in God below some sinful modifier. (See C.S. Lewis's Screwtape letters for a humorous look at how this would work.) Do we wring our hands over "Klepto-Christians" or "Homicidal Christians"? I think the approach should be consistent for all of them, and other similar situations where we as God's creations suffer from the corruption of sin. As Paul's letter to the Roman's points out -- "For all of sinned and fall short of the glory of God", so let whoever is sinless throw the first stone! But on the other hand, as Timothy points out regarding the leaders of the church: " Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money." Note that Timothy doesn't say "Sinless", because indeed that is not achievable in our current existence. If there is someone who is attracted to the same sex who wants to be a leader -- who am I to judge their heart. All that I can measure are their actions. I'm sure that we have some church leaders who are drawn to taking things that are not theirs, lusted after a pretty woman who is not their wife, or may have on occasion wished violence on another -- but if they don't act on, nor preach in favor of those actions -- who am I to judge? But if it is discovered that a church leader has had an affair with someone else's spouse (husband or wife), sexually interacted with a child, stolen that which isn't' theirs, fallen into drunkeness and so on -- then they should lose their office, and supported to confront their actions and prayerfully ask for God's help to overcome those sins.
@alangiaconelli29192 ай бұрын
When we have to reason amongst ourselves to find out what God means and use democratic practices to decide what God means, then God is not part of the conversation. That process itself is the removal from God, not the subject matter being discussed. The essence and foundation about God is the communication with Him.
@CanadianAnglican2 ай бұрын
Here in Canada the Anglican Church is like the episcopal church in the USA.
@javiervega10652 ай бұрын
Not the EACA
@CanadianAnglicanАй бұрын
@@javiervega1065the original Episcopal church. Not break always.
@josephpearson22302 ай бұрын
Thanks for taking the time to help sort out the different views of American Christians on the vexed issue of homosexuality. The Church cannot hope to escape controversies roiling the wider culture and society. Charity in all things.
@svenerikjohansson8130Ай бұрын
Very good that you mention the diversity with many possible views, and that there are also different views within the same denomination too. For example in the denomination where I´m a member - Church of Sweden (our equivalent to church of England) the view differs between congregations and individual priests and individual parish members. Personally I guess I can be labled as having some thoughts in common with some variant of the B-perspective, but I have a complicated view.. On a national level Church of Sweden has both "same sex marriage" and women priests, but in one of the congregations I visit often in Göteborg, Swedens 2d largest town, neither such marriages nor women priests would be possible - because the congregations members simply want it to be so, Also the priests have a formal right to perform marriages, but not the duty to do it, so the priests have some freedom. Also on other issues the large differences today are often not between the denominations - but straight through them. I go to where I believe that there is a divine presence. I sometimes go to other denominations, for example the Catholic Church. The Catholic vicar in our town actually preaches more Lutheran than some priests in my own Lutheran church. I´m sort of an ecumeical non denominational christian, but I have my "base" in Church of Sweden. I´d say I´m a theologically conservatige christian - but maybe not a typical such, being also christian & vegan, and animal rights activist, inspired by professor & priest Andrew Linzey in England, pastor Frank Hoffman in USA, and other well known names in the "veggie-christian movement".🙂
@georgestraitiskingofcounty86442 ай бұрын
Honestly, I'm just looking back where it all started. Where God created a woman for a man. And together they became one flesh. If God thought this was a mistake he would have made a man for a man and a woman for a woman. But He didn't.
@downenout87052 ай бұрын
So where do all the intersex people fit in?
@calebr7199Ай бұрын
Well actually, god didn't create men or women, we evolved just like every other animal on Earth.
@grit16792 ай бұрын
It's all about redefining *sin* when it becomes personally inconvenient.
@PastorCleveland2 ай бұрын
Extremely helpful and informative. Thank you.
@jeffcurtis54702 ай бұрын
Forget "sides", God made clear in His Word what is righteous and not righteous, enough already.
@downenout87052 ай бұрын
If that were true then there wouldn't be any sides.
@oscargr_2 ай бұрын
God made it clear in His Word that he created man from dust and the sun after night and day.
@buddyroeginocchio91052 ай бұрын
@@downenout8705 Gen3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: So you see there is more than one side and they can't both be righteous.
@downenout87052 ай бұрын
@@buddyroeginocchio9105 Yep, god certainly made it clear from the outset that it's both a liar and deceiver.
@cypriencoon87442 ай бұрын
Great video as always, though the AI art bg was rather distracting
@ProselyteofYah2 ай бұрын
I lean in to the B or Y position (based on what it was explained to be below in the comments). I understand that there is testimonial and scientific evidence that people are indeed born with their sexual orientation, and LGBT orientations also have been found to be linked with conditions like Autism, ADHD, Bipolar, etc (in my personal long term research on the matter, and academic studies), and so I cannot say that being 'born' with something as part of you biologically/neurologically can be "sin" in itself that someone can be accused of or demanded to repent of, though the 'act' and attraction type it promotes is of course something sinful. Whilst I do not compare gay people with pedophiles, there is scientific research also showing people are born with an orientation to children, and yet everyone believes it to be wrong to act out those attractions on minors. And so in such a stead, I'd hold based on God's word, homosexual 'acts and relationships' to be sinful, and such urges for such are a result of the fall as far as humanity is concerned. But those born with the inner makeup and orientation toward the same sex, are no different from anyone else born with a specific condition. If a person is too afraid to come out to you, even though they are not committing any sinful act or living a homosexual lifestyle, or even if they have but are repentant/struggling, then something is wrong and the love of Christ isn't being expressed in the Congregation. We must differentiate the sin from the sinner, and be empathetic people to those with such inborn struggles.
@dan690522 ай бұрын
choices If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
@RationalistMH2 ай бұрын
But pedophiles hurt children as they cannot consent. Neither can animals consent. Why should gay people deny themselves though? Why do you not compare homosexuality to heterosexuality ?
@historyhooligan289312 күн бұрын
I’m a Side B Christian… trying to crucify the flesh daily. I appreciate this balanced and respectful explanation of the controversy. Keeping in mind that this church “controversy” boils down to individual humans and hearts, all wrestling and striving
@AlexsGoogleAccount16 сағат бұрын
I wish you well. A lot of Side B Christians struggle to find congregations that are not Side B on paper but Side Y or X in practice. I think a great example of that is churches that claim to be Side B, but won't ordain "same-sex attracted" clergy. If the sexual orientation "temptation" is not sinful, and only "the act" is, then a celibate gay preacher is doing everything asked of them. I've heard too many stories of gay Side B Christians who do everything their church expects of them and follow all the rules and are still assumed to be sinning because they think of themselves as "gay".
@ccchhhrrriiisss1002 ай бұрын
Old Testament scripture opposes it. New Testament scripture opposes it. The LORD spoke against it. Jesus spoke against it. The apostles wrote against it. Early church teachers wrote against it. For nearly the entirety of church history, Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant churches were against it. 🤔 Yet, over the last few years and decades, some modern denominations: "Let's accept it and claim that it's acceptably 'Christian' and 'norrrmmmaaalll!'"
@frogtownroad91042 ай бұрын
Do you actually want me to explain the position of side A or do you just want to talk at other people?
@epsilonjay41232 ай бұрын
That is your interpretation. There have always been multiple interpretations. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZ7TZ5-CmNlgnLM
@Lando_P12 ай бұрын
He’s obviously not interested in understanding the Bible. He’s not interested in getting closer to God. He’s interested in finding bits that support his hateful beliefs.
@ccchhhrrriiisss1002 ай бұрын
@@frogtownroad9104 - Wait. What? That isn't a viable (or logical) criticism of what I wrote. You insinuated something bad about ME rather than what I wrote. Personally, I don't care about a doctrinal position that is so obviously a contradiction to the Bible or the history of Christian teaching. There is no debate necessary because it is already exceptionally clear and obvious.
@ccchhhrrriiisss1002 ай бұрын
@@Lando_P1 - Are you referring to me, Lando? I think that this would be presumptuous to claim about me. I am a Christian. I am not hateful. It is not "hateful" to tell the truth of the Biblical perspective of sexuality, homosexuality and marriage. To say otherwise isn't true, accurate or even logical. I was NOT a Christian (I was agnostic) before I believed in Jesus. In fact, I posted something else just after I posted this about this from Scripture. I'll post it below this comment.
@apw99292 ай бұрын
As a Jewish person this debate is so interesting to me because it’s now hardly even controversial in Modern Orthodox circles whether it’s a problem for someone to identify as gay but be celibate - because our practice is tied to whether you observe the law or not rather than adherence to a particular creed or dogma. The main problem with such a practice is that it disables you from keeping the commandment to be fruitful and multiply, but some people say that being gay would put you in the category of someone unable to have children for other reasons. We had our own misadventures with conversion therapy but it’s so clear at this point that it doesn’t work that we have to find a way to adapt Other comments are saying that this is a simple issue but for me it really underlines the theological differences between Judaism and Christianity which is interesting.
@javiervega10652 ай бұрын
It does work when done correctly
@dan690522 ай бұрын
If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace choices
@gloriawilson32412 ай бұрын
Why not just go by what the Bible says?
@downenout87052 ай бұрын
Don't be silly, if you follow Leviticus 20: 13, you will find yourself locked away for a very long time. You need to cherry pick verses very careful and construct your god, in your own image, from those that you select and the interpretation that you impose on them.
@gloriawilson32412 ай бұрын
@@downenout8705 My church follows the Bible that God gave Moses.
@downenout87052 ай бұрын
@@gloriawilson3241 I have no clue as to what you mean. I am not aware of any Christian denomination that claims their Bible was written by their god and given to Moses. If your bible doesn't contain Leviticus then great, but you still sixty five books to go.
It seems to me the PCA has chosen a "don't ask - don't tell" approach? As long as you don't talk about (or demonstrate) your sexual self image you're okay. We all have sinful desires - the sin is dwelling on them or acting on them while the bible calls us to resist them. But the fact that we are tempted is a result of our fallen human nature, not a sin in and of itself.
@Caleb-xf5ynАй бұрын
If you're tempted, it is for a purpose, to test your Faith, so that you may know whether it is real and overcome, or bogus and you go round and round. Jesus had his trying time with the Tempter and prevailed. Then He moved on with His ministry. A genuine "born again" believer is supposed to do the same and move on with his christian life, and that's how it used to be until all these fake gospels and fake little jesus figments of people's imaginations came along. The problem is most of you don't understand the power of the gospel and you are turning it into just another powerless dead religion without consequence. Is that what Christ died to accomplish? Methinks not. Christ rose from the grave; a lot of you seem to think He's still there.
@mostshenanigans2 ай бұрын
I think the society in general should stop caring so much about what the churches think, if the churches don't want to be affirming to marginalized people, we should just stop affirming to their religion.
@alisterrebelo90132 ай бұрын
What happens when the Churches become the marginalised people? Will you then stand up for them or twist your logic to then side with the oppressors?
@dan690522 ай бұрын
right on If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
@marlon80952 ай бұрын
Christophobia.
@alisterrebelo90132 ай бұрын
@@marlon8095 Well that is an apt term, IN ONE SENSE. Jesus came the first time around in love, the next coming will be Judgement so I would say, those who promote corruption of the good, should be afraid.
@RationalistMH2 ай бұрын
@@marlon8095 the ‘phobia’ is warranted. Your Bible, just like the Quran, literally calls for the execution of gay people. Of course all civilized people ought to be scared of such radical , irrational ideologies.
@277kne2 ай бұрын
I don't understand why anyone in church should know your sexual preference. Why is the talk in churches among Christians about LGBT? There never has been any questions or discussions with a heterosexual about their sexual practices.
@MartinHansenGamer2 ай бұрын
As a bisexual Christian experiencing a lot of trauma, suppressing and self hate because of my sexuality, that’s why we talk about it, and also because there is a lot of hate against lgbtq people and just bad thinking.
@javiervega10652 ай бұрын
@@MartinHansenGamer your a bot and if you really cared you would try conversion therapy and seek assistance for your disorientation
@david-al-sayyid2 ай бұрын
@@MartinHansenGamerGenuine question; no resentment, just trying to start a dialogue, but what difference does it make adding the prefix? The only difference I see between "Christian" and "gay Christian" is that the latter just highlights which passion you struggle against the most. Honestly trying to understand
@RationalistMH2 ай бұрын
@@javiervega1065 He is already bisexual so he can marry a woman. There is no need for ‘conversion therapy’ here, a pseudo scientific practice that all psychological organizations affirm to be hogwash.
@jonathanotten7638Ай бұрын
Everyone already knows most people's sexual preference. You can't see that, though, because most people are straight. But when you see parents bringing a child to be baptized, congrats, you know their sexual preference. When you're aware that your pastor has a wife, congrats, you know his sexual preference. Gays aren't asking for anything that isn't already done.
@epsilonjay41232 ай бұрын
As an outsider, I don't get why so many people are so angry over this. If you truly believe that homosexuality is against your beliefs, the only way that you'll be able to convince people of that sexuality to follow your beliefs is to accept that there are multiple viewpoints, and multiple interpretations and then allowing them to come to their own conclusion after hearing a fair presentation of both sides. By doing anything else, you drive that community (and anyone who supports them) away. You only hurt yourself by insisting on a non-inclusive interpretation.
@Aio-Project2 ай бұрын
this.
@michaelfisher71702 ай бұрын
well said.
@Najmille2 ай бұрын
Beliefs are not something you fake for others to find appealing. As an insider, I have to say that I find the debate silly considering that heteros ought not to be having all the sex they are having either...
@dan690522 ай бұрын
choices If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
@theeternalsbeliever17792 ай бұрын
God said that His ppl are to view sin the way He views it, and He hates it. Ofc you don't get it because you're an outsider, and you don't understand the effects that these kinds of sins have on society once it is normalized.
@m.f.57392 ай бұрын
I think side B is pretty accurate. The only thing I would abstain from is using terms like "gay Christian" or "queer Christian". Not really because of the identification problem because it can also be just a neutral description, but because of it's cultural context. These terms are often used by people who claim to be Christian while living a homosexual lifestyle and denying the sinfulness of this. I personally never refer to myself as "gay Christian" or "gay" in general to avoid any misconceptions. But if someone is more comfortable with that, I don't think it's sinful to use it. I think there is a hard line when it comes to homosexual acts. I think when you're at a point where you don't see anything wrong with living an openly homosexual lifestyle, you're doctrine is no longer Christian because it is directly attacking the foundations of Christianity. The terminology and how to best refer to oneself is a question of personal preference and debatable, the sinfulness of homosexual acts is not.
@joe19402 ай бұрын
The Bible is clear on this issue and any church or denomination that condones this behavior is apostate.
@sufiameen60932 ай бұрын
Totally Agree
@dan690522 ай бұрын
choices If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
@theeternalsbeliever17792 ай бұрын
All "Christian" denominations are inherently apostate on the grounds that they exist. The Bible clearly prohibits the existence of denominations in 1 Cor. 1. On various lvls, they're all openly rebelling against the word of God, even while they hypocritically claim it as the source of their beliefs.
@GrammyGottaGo2 ай бұрын
There’s a place for everyone to serve in God’s Kingdom.
@StreetsOfVancouverChannelАй бұрын
I Cor. 6:9-11 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous[a] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,[b] 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”
@SomerandomnamexАй бұрын
Not unrepentant homosexuals
@reeferfranklin2 ай бұрын
So...I'm of the opinion that Side Y is likely the most theologically cirrect position...what I'm unaware of is which denominations actually fall into the category of Side Y?
@KnoxEmDown2 ай бұрын
Here's an excellent video on that, a discussion between an eastern orthodox priest and a doctor who is now an episocpal priest from a decade ago. Both seem to take the "Side Y" stance, which also seems to be that of the Holy Fathers of the early church from what I've read and seen. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnTHhpJmiqZqbtE
@alisterrebelo90132 ай бұрын
Catholics would fall into Side Y. Based on what I've seen other people say. I haven't investigated Side B and Y personally. Side A: Gay sex is not a sin. Side B: Gay sex is a sin, but the "gay" identity is not. Side Y: The "gay" identity is a sin, but same-sex attraction is not. Side X: Same-sex attraction is a sin.
@dan690522 ай бұрын
choices If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
@carsonianthegreat4672Ай бұрын
The Catholic Church is usually considered “Side Y”
@danocinneide1885Ай бұрын
The idea of Christian denominations is not a Christian idea
@memeboi6017Ай бұрын
Well it happened, and we can’t make it un-happen, his church is still guided
@AlexsGoogleAccount16 сағат бұрын
Your comments section is full of people who don't understand what "identity". Your identity is the collection of all things that you hold to be true about yourself. I am a man; I am diabetic; I am a website designer; I am a Midwesterner; I am engaged; I am a Unitarian Universalist. Because I hold these things to be true about myself, I "identify" as those things. Holding an aspect of my identity does not invalidate another aspect of it. For example, me "identifying as diabetic" does not make me a bad "website designer". This seems obvious. Labels are often combined when the context calls for it. For example, a Bible Study might be formed for Single Christian Men in order to discuss issues that primarily affect Christian Men when they're trying to date or navigate relationships. A person who resonates with this group is "identifying" as Single, as a Christian, and as a Man. This does not mean he is making being a Man into an idol or making being Single into an idol and it would be RIDICULOUS to tell him to stop identifying as a man or as single because HIS IDENTITY IS IN CHRIST! In discussions about LGBTQ+ issues in the church, the context immediately begs where people who are LGBTQ+ and are Christians fit in the Church and what they are allowed to do. A Christian who is same-sex attracted is a "gay Christian" regardless of whether they "act on it". And combining labels like these in a discussion is a common convention of the English language that we do all the time without thinking about it (like addressing "Single Men"). Them referring to themselves as a "gay Christian" is in no way tarnishing their identity as a "Christian".
@nisibonum76342 ай бұрын
I feel like the Catholic Church is side B, where the sin isn't in having an attraction but in acting on it. Just like how I may feel attracted to multiple women, however it is only sinful if I sexually engage with multiple women.
@HolyKhaaaaan2 ай бұрын
It is at most side B. I wonder if Fiducia Supplicans was objected to mostly by people on side X. If so, perhaps I do understand why it seems like a seismic shift. The Catechism does not speak of homosexual desires, as such, as being desired nor sinful (cf. CCC 2358).
@alisterrebelo90132 ай бұрын
If we are going to play this game, then the Catholic Church is Side Y not B. The Catholic Church absolutely rejects the "gay" identity, because the only identity that matters is being a child of God, which is in direct contradiction to the "gay" identity. Side A: Gay sex is not a sin. Side B: Gay sex is a sin, but the "gay" identity is not. Side Y: The "gay" identity is a sin, but same-sex attraction is not. Side X: Same-sex attraction is a sin.
@nisibonum76342 ай бұрын
@@alisterrebelo9013 I am not well versed with the letters of sides, it seems like it's building it's own alphabet. Kind of fitting for this issue lol. In that description I think I would agree.
@angelbonilla22552 ай бұрын
No because the cathecism teaches that homosexuality tendencies are "intrinsically disordered" and because Catholicism teaches that is possible to reach complete Holiness in This life.
@carsonianthegreat4672Ай бұрын
@@HolyKhaaaaanFiducia Supplicans was not a “seismic shift.” The Pope later clarified that there was no change in doctrine, and that the attraction is still intrinsically disordered and that the union cannot be blessed.
@mcloud20212 ай бұрын
SMH many verses in the Bible shows what God thinks of Homosexuals, would they then accuse God our creator of being Homophobic? If you're christian do what the Bible instructions us to do.
@crosisofborg55242 ай бұрын
Yes they would. Alphabets have claimed Jesus was trans. They’ll say anything.
@dan690522 ай бұрын
knowledge If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
@reviewsfromasocialjusticel8558Ай бұрын
Thanks for this explainer!!
@morrishansford3316Ай бұрын
The way you just give facts and the info with out much or any bias Definitely this day and age Plain simply amazing
@jenniferburns25302 ай бұрын
The obsessive hate aimed at homosexuality destroys congregations and families as well as denominations. I know LGBTQ+ individuals and families that marry, raise children, and live Christ-like lives that have been attacked by and alienated from their churches and extended families. Children ask their parents "why do grandma and grandpa hate us?" I have been a member of my congregation for 32 years and we have always embraced love as the central tenet of our faith and welcome everyone into our circle. Many people have arrived to our doors deeply wounded by churches that endorsed anti-LGBT+ conversion "therapy", covered up sexual abuse scandals, and abused power in a variety of ways.
@bchristian852 ай бұрын
The American church right now is obsessed with criminalizing homosexuality at any cost. They are willing to support a convicted felon, adulteror, and rapist to become a dictator over the USA because they might get homosexuality criminalized. It's clear that to most Christians homosexuality is much more than a sin. It's the issue by which the Pharisaical American church judges everyone and society itself. It allows American Christians to be comfortable in their own, lesser sins because at least they aren't a [insert gay f slur here].
@angelawossname2 ай бұрын
I find it interesting that the anti gay churches tend to get into a lot more scandals when it comes to covering up SA, CSA, and child abuse in general. Maybe because you understand the basic concept of "consenting adults". Maybe it's because you interpret "homosexuality" as "p3d0philia". Who knows, but whenever abuse does happen in affirming churches, I notice it's always dealt with swiftly by the proper authorities. I have nothing but respect for affirming churches.
@dan690522 ай бұрын
choices If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
@m.f.57392 ай бұрын
I think neither of the extremes are good. If you're really a Christian, you cannot condone any homosexual behaviour. It is sinful and will not lead to heaven, period. If we start compromising this truth, we start denying scripture and lead other people and ourselves to damnation. On the other hand, we should never hate the sinner. We're all sinners, and homosexual sin is not worse than i.e. adultery in a heterosexual relationship. We should therefore approach people struggling with homosexual temptations in love and with the awareness that we ourselves are not better. The key points are: 1) Homosexual acts are sinful and against God's commands. 2) However, they are not worse than any other sin. 3) We all sin and fall short from the glory of God. 4) Everybody, no matter if homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual etc. needs repentance and forgiveness for their sin. 5) Love the sinner, hate the sin.
@neoturfmasterMVS2 ай бұрын
Christian's where not seeking this subject. This topic has been thrust upon the majority of people. The majority wasn't not interested in exploring sexual topics constantly over and over. There is/was a small movement that wants sexuality to be overtly public. To make known who and what types of people they enjoy having sex with. Trust me the vast majority of people do not, did not, nor ever even wanted to have this conversation yet we, near all of us, from where we work to now church to all places of live *must* be confronted with what other people do in their bedrooms and forced to know who and what type of sex they enjoy. I speak for the majority: We didn't want this nor ask for it yet we get blamed for saying anything about it that others may not like. We didn't start this fire and we'd love to not be part of it but repeatedly over and over asked to join in a conversation that never ends.
@dan690522 ай бұрын
If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
@RationalistMH2 ай бұрын
Yeah sure, you talk about it 24/7, more than gay people themselves do but expect us to believe you have been ‘forced’ to confront this issue. No, you love your scapegoat and you love gossip, its just human psychology. Having an outgroup to demonize strengthens the in group. Since 95% of Church goers will never deal with this issue personally, it is the ideal ‘sin’ to demonize
@robertAGCАй бұрын
If the Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches had historically precluded from the clergy men who were even tempted by homosexual desires, I wonder whether they would have survived to this day, given all people (I am Greek Orthodox) in these churches are obligated to give confession. I find some of the positions confusing. If there is a “side x” person out there who can help me understand: is it your position that there are certain temptations, which preclude formal church ministry, even if a person lives in repentance regarding those temptations? Is the issue the temptation, the self-association with the temptation, or both? If a person is tempted in that way but makes no public acknowledgment about that temptation, is that more acceptable than making the acknowledgment? I ask in good faith, as one who is genuinely curious. Thanks!
@savioblancАй бұрын
I think, historically, this was not even a question that was asked of men joining the priesthood but it kinda was always known that some men did indeed join the priesthood as a means to escape marriage and indulge in sodomy, within the priesthood and kept it quiet. It was understood that these men would not be scrutinized and in return, they stayed within the priesthood and made sure they didnt bring scandal to themselves and the wider Church.
@Caleb-xf5ynАй бұрын
If "clergy", whatever the nonsense that is, had these problems, then they shouldn't be there. I would never dare to even think of going into the ministry if my christian life was that messed up. Christians should stop loving their sin more than God; they should stop making Sin their lord and master, and stop making Jesus a beggar. I read no gospel in these comments. No wonder the world laughs and mocks.
@carsonianthegreat4672Ай бұрын
The Catholic Church still bans admitting men with homosexual tendencies to seminaries. But I’m not sure what you are trying to say with your Confession comment. Violating the Seal of the Confessional is a serious crime. If a Confessor reveals with the Penitent said within the Confessional, they are automatically excommunicated.
@robertAGCАй бұрын
@@carsonianthegreat4672 That’s interesting about seminary admissions. However, my point about confessions, I think, still stands. A priest may confess to a homosexual sin. The confessor may have the discretion to put him under obedience (penance). If it were entirely true that men with homosexual desires cannot serve as clergy, I would imagine confessors would obligate priests who confess as much to ask their bishops to be relieved of duty. I’m not Catholic, so I may be misunderstanding, but I know, as an Orthodox Christian, seeing men mysteriously step away from the priesthood is far rarer than what I imagine to be the statistical distribution of men with homosexual tendencies.
@carsonianthegreat4672Ай бұрын
@@robertAGC requiring a penitent to reveal their sin to another as a condition of absolution is still a violation of the Seal of Confession and still results in automatic excommunication. In your scenario, the confessor who tried to obligate that would be excommunicated from the Church. Also, it should be noted that while gay men are not allowed to be admitted to seminary/ordained to the priesthood, if a man with homosexual temptations were to be ordained by mistake, or to develop homosexual desires later in life, they don’t stop being a priest. Their ordination was/is still a real ordination.
@crosisofborg55242 ай бұрын
The mere fact that someone would identify as a gay Christian instead of just a Christian shows his identity is based on his sexual preference. Someone who’s entire existence revolves around their sexuality is someone who’s practicing it with enthusiasm hence a sinner.
@russellmiles28612 ай бұрын
I like sex a lot too ... But I am happy to be damned if it means not having to spend eternity with Christians... That would be Hell
@MartinHansenGamer2 ай бұрын
Nah, it’s not that easy… it can be because they have experienced a lot of bad treatment and self hate because of the same sex attractions, there can be a lot more than what you think… myself is a bisexual Christian. Jesus is for everyone, and yeah marriage is between a man and a women, but the gospel is for all people.
@DannyWBrownJapan2 ай бұрын
This analysis and report of what is happening in the churches is very helpful. Thanks so much! By the way, I am Side X all the way. May God purify his church and teach us to love all people but without compromise.
@dan690522 ай бұрын
truth If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
@ashleynovels2 ай бұрын
Interesting. I’m Catholic and the official church teaching seems to be Side B, although there are many who advocate for Side A and Side X.
@jdotoz2 ай бұрын
Side A is unambiguously ruled out.
@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana2 ай бұрын
Catholics have *always* had a way for being completely against the church's teachings, but supporting the church anyway, while not even realising their actions make no sense. 🤣
@SRMkay2 ай бұрын
@@jdotoz Beg your pardon? I went to a Catholic high school and learned Side B from my ex-seminary religion teacher.
@jdotoz2 ай бұрын
@@SRMkay Well, the magisterial teaching is as clear as it is definitive: sex is only for within marriage, and marriage consists only of exactly one unmarried man and exactly one unmarried woman. There's no room for Side A. The only question is about homosexual identity (that is, B or X). I believe the teaching favors B overall, but perhaps not exactly.
@SRMkay2 ай бұрын
@@jdotoz I actually misread your original reply, I thought you said Side *B* was ruled out. My mistake!
@jsharp31652 ай бұрын
By the logic of some of these official statements -if you apply the same standard to straights- you are in sin if you are straight and have ANY attraction to any person other than your spouse, whether you act on that attraction or not. Attraction is not lust. Lust involves camping out and focusing on the attraction. Merely BEING opposite-sex attracted is not sinful. The alcoholism analogy is a good one (unless you're Side A, who don't see Q identity as an -ism to resist.) If I'm an alcoholic who doesn't drink, I'm not drinking. So where's the transgression?
@MartinHansenGamer2 ай бұрын
Exactly! This is what I’m saying! As a bisexual Christian.
@ajomagurdАй бұрын
Matthew 5:28 "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Where in the bible does it say attraction and lust are different things? I am not a christian so i dont care if you pick and choose what you believe from the bible but if you truly believe it is the word of god then you would believe in every word yes?
@jsharp3165Ай бұрын
@@ajomagurd I am attracted to women. That is my natural, God-given state. As long as I have my eyesight, I notice when a woman is pretty. I notice when she has a great figure. My ears and emotions tell me if she has a charming personality. My eyes and my personality automatically find those wonderful and good characteristics pleasant and - depending on the degree - even exhilarating when unexpectedly encountered. That is attraction. It is just simple biology. Attraction happens TO us. That is not sin if I just stop there. That's just part of navigating life. But if I keep looking at her, if I stare, if I start mentally undressing her or imagining us being intimate, if I keep thinking about how sexy she is - that's lust. That's something I DO with the attraction. That's sin. James 1:15 says "Lust, when it has conceived, brings forth sin." Attraction is just grain that is scattered on the ground. Lust is when I make a little hill for the grain and water it so that it germinates.
@CanadianAnglican2 ай бұрын
It’s interesting watching the debate
@r90f2 ай бұрын
The USA president debate?
@luanderson.ferreira2 ай бұрын
So Side B is basically Catholic Doctrine on the subject
@dan690522 ай бұрын
If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
@RationalistMH2 ай бұрын
Well, not really, you would have to add a couple of ‘ f slurs’ to make this properly Catholic. It is the ‘one true Church’ after all 😌
@andrewsuryali85402 ай бұрын
The Catholic position is actually closer to "Don't ask don't tell" while actual doctrine has only been modified to state that homosexuality isn't a violation of canon law.
@jfiglioliАй бұрын
No. Side Y would be much closer to what the preference of the Church seems to be. Meaning the desires themselves are not sinful but it is not wise to identify oneself by them.
@carsonianthegreat4672Ай бұрын
Not quite. The Catholic Church is more “Side Y.” It prohibits letting gay men into seminaries/the priesthood. However, it permits the use of language like “a Christian with same-sex attraction” (in certain contexts) provided that the primary identity is Christian/Catholic, not SSA.
@Krista-TS6 күн бұрын
I am so grateful I came across this channel. God the almighty is amazing!
@ZacharyTLawsonАй бұрын
Really interested in the implied 21 positions between Side B and Side X...
@TylerMcMahanАй бұрын
Side M here 🙋♂️
@domieraci23702 ай бұрын
Abominations before the Lord
@Robert_Sparkman_032 ай бұрын
I'm not fond of using "alcoholic" or "drug addict" as an identifier either. I think that it labels the person and affects the way they think about themselves. That is why I have issues with Alcoholics Anonymous and their continued affirmation of one another as alcoholics.
@HolyKhaaaaan2 ай бұрын
Our common problem causes us to look for a common solution. It may not be for everyone, but identifying our problem helps at least some of us accept the solution: turning our lives over to God.
@frogtownroad9104Ай бұрын
@@HolyKhaaaaan People like this want common solutions because complex ones hurt their fee fees.
@memeboi6017Ай бұрын
To me it’s like how we call each other sinners, I am a sinner, but redeemed in Christ, so it goes that one could say “I am an alcoholic, but I am not going to let that shackle me forever”
@Robert_Sparkman_03Ай бұрын
@@memeboi6017 I am convinced that maintaining the label indicates a lack of repentance and is a statement that the man is still in Adam. I Corinthians 6:9-10 indicates that those who are redeemed are no longer homosexuals. Do I think that every single person amongst the redeemed no longer has temptations in that area? No. But there is a fundamental change which has already occurred, and maintaining the label indicates that one is still in Adam and not in Christ.
@fabulouschild20052 ай бұрын
I quite easily fit into side a, but I think forcing the will of side a onto anyone who doesn't agree with it wrong. People should come to the realisation themselves
@MartinHansenGamer2 ай бұрын
As a bisexual Christian I’m side b and I agree with you that it should not be forced, and there must be understanding.
@fabulouschild20052 ай бұрын
@@MartinHansenGamer yeh, I mean I'm of the understanding that the sections of the Bible that supposedly condemn homosexuality were actually mistranslated and they originally condemned pedophilia and solicitation of child prostitutes. However, I'm not going to go around Bible-thumping trying to force this opinion on others. We're all one in Christ (Galatians 3:28)
@MartinHansenGamer2 ай бұрын
@@fabulouschild2005 I understand what you mean, and I’ve thought about it, tho marriage seems to have been exclusively between a man and a women, but I respect your opinion.
@Samy-sx6kn2 ай бұрын
@@fabulouschild2005 Do you know the biblical languages? Or do you just wish they were mistranslated?
@fabulouschild20052 ай бұрын
@@Samy-sx6kn I have read numerous studies written by people who know the Biblical languages
@masscreationbroadcasts2 ай бұрын
Its The first minute and I've already got many questions: Why is side A, the first letter of the alphabet given to the affirming side, which is a later development? Why is side A compared to side X? I'd have understood side V and side X or side A and B, but not A and X.
@CountJeffula2 ай бұрын
A probably stands for affirming X is a universal symbol to stop things B is in between Y is close to X, but not quite Seems to make sense.
@chasityrhodus72992 ай бұрын
In the Greek alphabet (original written language of the NT) the “X” was the 1st letter of the word (representing) “Christ.” In (very)early church history, the “X” was used in reference to Christ (or cross). A possible (logical) theory would be that “side X,” would represent that of what consisted in the (original) 1st century(1st several centuries) of the Christian “church.” The Gospel/Christ hasn’t changed, man has…
@CountJeffula2 ай бұрын
@@chasityrhodus7299 thank God we have! Imagine living in a world like they did without technology, medicine, the internet, cars, planes, running water, air conditioning. Sometimes I wonder if Jesus could have imagined all these things and why he still chose to speak to the population he did when 2000 years later the internet and Google translate would have greatly expedited his mission.
@LN372752 ай бұрын
@@CountJeffulalol
@CalemTheDrake2 ай бұрын
Gay Christian here: glad that people are starting to notice these distinctions more. Now hopefully people can try to stop hitting us over the head with the clobber-passages and see how this topic is not so simple
@MartinHansenGamer2 ай бұрын
Exactly! Fellow bi Christian here
@CalemTheDrake2 ай бұрын
@@MartinHansenGamer nice to see a fellow queer Christian ^^
@dan690522 ай бұрын
true If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
@javiervega10652 ай бұрын
Actually it is very clear if you read both the old and new testament it is very simple clear and if you speak with Christians on any other side of the world this isn't even an issue.
@CalemTheDrake2 ай бұрын
@@javiervega1065 do people back then know what orientation is? Is sexual orientation inherently part of being human or totally by choice? Should we be legalistic about what the Bible says about people in the past? It's more complicated than you're thinking.
@joshuakarr-BibleMan2 ай бұрын
Sounds like Side B's plan is to just keep the slope as slippery as possible, and only take one little step onto it.
@HolyKhaaaaan2 ай бұрын
For me, if two gay guys don't want to have sex with each other, or make a pretense of doing so, but do wish to have a richly, emotionally deep and vulnerable life together, I don't see the problem with that. Of course, in the Catholic Church, we have monasteries where they do that already. Are all monastics orgiastic according to Protestants?
@tarumath3192 ай бұрын
I mean, what's the alternative? Conversion therapy?
@dan690522 ай бұрын
If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
@joshuakarr-BibleMan2 ай бұрын
@@tarumath319 Abstinence. When the Apostles complained about Jesus's position on marriage, His response was to explain about eunuchs.
@gustavusadolphus43442 ай бұрын
@@joshuakarr-BibleMan that's side b position, to abstain....
@landlubbber2 ай бұрын
All this messing around with "personal identity" seems very weird to me, even outside the context of sexual ethics. If you're humble, then ideas about self-identification and self-expression should barely ever even cross your mind
@alisterrebelo90132 ай бұрын
There is one identity that does matter and is important if Christians are to be united, the identity that we are "Children of God".
@dan690522 ай бұрын
choices If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Research has shown that major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin since there is no choice offered. If your religion or belief system states that it is a sin, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice which doesn’t include options & exceptions. Rules are rules! If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, & no reliance on spirituality or religion, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology & superstition with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression as well in the animal kingdom. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research. While I am not gay, I highly recommend this book & the numerous articles. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both determined by genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
@user-vn7ku1qp5j2 ай бұрын
Thank you for the work you do!
@presidentjoethudbrandon7074Ай бұрын
So you have "Side X" that's traditionally known as "teaching from the Bible". And then you have sides A and B. Known traditionally as "heretical BS"
@OrthoUnknown2 ай бұрын
Tolerance doesn't equal acceptance. I can tolerate your world view and lifestyle for I am not your judge but I do not have to accept your twisting of the name and faith of Christianity to fit your prideful sin of self.
@joshstucki43492 ай бұрын
If the Bible says it I believe it and that's all there is to it.
@downenout87052 ай бұрын
So you believe that your all loving, just and perfectly moral god "blessed" the depravity in Psalm 137.9 (MASB1995) Sick beyond belief.
@eesev2017Ай бұрын
Very glad this channel supports the queer community despite the subject matter. Keep it up!
@LuzianJАй бұрын
Where does he allude to that?
@gunsgalore7571Ай бұрын
In the Catholic Church I think we've always been somewhere between Side X and Side B. We've always taught that homosexual activity is sinful, even mortally sinful. (As in, you will go to Hell for it, even if you're otherwise a faithful Christian.) We've also always taught that transgender identity is inherently unintelligible, with Pope Francis calling it the second worst thing in the Western world after abortion. But we've also never taught that homosexual attraction is inherently sinful, and the Church admits that there may be biological reasons behind it. The Church even now allows for blessings of same-sex couples who wish to break free of their sinful relationships. Thus, experiencing same-sex attraction is not a sin in and of itself - but it is a temptation that may cause someone to sin by having unchaste thoughts, masturbating, or engaging in homosexual activity. The Church even used to allow homosexual-attracted priests, as long as they affirmed Church teaching that homosexual activity is sinful. But on that issue we've actually moved from Side B to Side X, as we no longer allow for any homosexual priests through seminary. I'm not exactly sure why they changed that rule; it might have had something to do with the sexual abuse crisis.
@themightyboat2 ай бұрын
I'm side Christ
@MilitantOldLady2 ай бұрын
You can’t be Christian if you’re gay. That means you have not repented of your sin. There is no debate or concessions here.
@noodles2459Ай бұрын
Transgenderism is an awdul word. We are people! Not An ideology. We just want to live. I love Jesus I go to church leave us alone
@bubbasmith36382 ай бұрын
And the "Christian" apostasy just keeps growing. Christ without a Cross, salvation without struggle, and heaven without judgement.
@user-ug5rb6qi4r2 ай бұрын
Without knowing the terms, I’ve always been naturally inclined towards “side B.” But I would find the term “gay Christian” inappropriate.