Christianity and the Baha'i Faith - Dr. David Young

[@ramzee374]

Fantastic talk.

[@keithhopkins691]

Great to feel the connection with my beloved Baha’i brothers and sisters. Thank you so much for your presentation.

[@cruzianfibergeek]

Some years ago I found some videos here on KZbin on how to teach the faith to christians, I was so fascinated I watched all the videos several times over. What a treat to see Dr Young here.

[@robertgreen2542]

have you tried teaching christians yet? they teach us how to teach them plus you can try out the techniques suggested...

[@alisonhall2349]

I also listen to both speakers several times. So helpful in understanding Christian thought and learning how to teach the faith to them.

[@Scott_works]

If you haven't noticed. over the past ten or twenty years there has become a growing movement among well educated authors and professors (many who have left Christianity) who are digging deep into the roots of the Abrahamic religions. They are linguists, historians, and language specialists who are now able to collaborate and work with others outside of the highly controlled literary circles of the Christian Church. In the not so distant past, even suggesting that there may be errors in the scriptures could get one ostracized, tortured, or killed. Remarkably, they are able to piece together the religions of the various empires of the Mediterranean (Egyptian, Sumerian/Accadian, Assyrian, Hittite, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, and Roman) and comparatively analyze the Torah and the teachings of Judaism. What they find is credible evidence as to when certain portions were written and added to the Torah. This illustrates how the Torah was written and broken down into two periods of time: 1) The First Temple, and 2)The Second Temple. They find that various elements of Jewish cosmology were added from the surrounding empires and religions. For example, the story of Noah was "borrowed" from Sumerian legend and re-tooled for the Torah. The battle between good and evil, the Garden of Eden, the Adam and Eve story, and other elements of the Zoroastrian religion were added after the Jews were released from Babylonian captivity and King Cyrus of the Achaemenid Persian empire funded the rebuilding of King Solomon's temple, destroyed by Babylon. As these books are unraveled, other stories, even the story of Moses and Exodus show little or no corroboration among surrounding cultures, and books like the Book of Daniel are believed to have been written such that it appears to have been written 500 years earlier, with its prophecies being 100 percent accurate up to the time it was actually written, but failing after that. It is very evident that the Old Testament contains a lot of mythology and contrived stories designed to motivate the Jewish people in their faith in Yahweh. It is religious propaganda, common among all the religions of the time. They borrow from one another and actually compete with each other over who has the correct knowledge of the true God. The Jews insist that Hebrew Torah and books are the Word of God. The New Testament of the Bible bases a lot of its eschatology on the Old Testament and it is clear that the same type casts of Old Testament heroes were used when writing the story of Jesus. This is done so that readers, already familiar with the Old Testament stories, find familiarity in the story of Jesus. The New Testament stories found in the Gospels were all written after the destruction of Jerusalem by Rome in 70AD, and Matthew and Luke are exact copies of the Greek stories of Mark, with additional information and sayings of Jesus attributed to another lost text, nearly identical to the Gospel of Thomas which the Romans did not include in the New Testament Canon. If the stories of the Old Testament are borrowed, fabricated, and backdated, and then the stories and proof of the authenticity of Jesus are based upon them, how authentic can they be? The Nag Hammadi cache, discovered in the mid twentieth century, contains the books forbidden after the canonization of the Bible by Rome. These are all of the forbidden books contained in the Catholic Church's records of the canonization. Under review, it is clear that much of this information was written on the fly to answer common questions about the new Christian religion, but some of the books are so over the top that they are not believable. And it is undeniable that the Christian religion, and the Bible were both put together by Rome for the express purpose of consolidating the empire to one religion, with Christendom replacing paganism. The conversion was not optional. It was mandatory, and at the edge of the sword. Christians insist that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. Finally, the religion of Islam and the Koran, written some time after Muhammad's "ascension" was not written by Muhammad, who was illiterate. It was written by scribes who knew the Toran and the Bible. Their chief concern was that the Jews had skewed their religion and then the Christians had further skewed the religion, leaving the Koran with the forbidden stories of the prophets, Mary, and Jesus. The Christians had created a Triune God and translated the Greek into Larin. All of this was offensive to the Arabs. Muslims insist that the Koran is the exact Word of God. After looking into Manichaeism, an early offshoot of Christianity that blends it with Zoroastrianism, it becomes evident that a lot of Islam is borrowed from it. Mani claimed to be the Seal of the Prophets, and the Last Prophet. The Muslims now attribute these monikers to Muhammad. All three of these religions have been at war over God and Jerusalem for more than a thousand years. Along comes the Bahai religion, attempting to mediate between the three religions for the purpose of creating a forum where they may all come together in peace and stop fighting. They claim to be the one true religion, explaining that Baha'u'llah is the promised one, the Most Great Name, etc. But they are also giving more credibility to the Abrahamic religions based upon naive understandings of their accuracy and true historical origins than they deserve. Baha'u'llah was very eloquent. I have read a lot of his writings and they convinced me of their authenticity. I became frustrated with the Bahai's after attending and hearing things taught to me that I had found direct contrast to in the scriptures. They seem to want to focus on "how holy Baha'u'llah was" and "how mysterious they say his eyes were". I accused them of building a white elephant and filling it with red herrings, because they have to compete with the supposed miracles of Moses, Jesus and other fabulous heroes of the Abrahamic religions. I was rejected by the Bahai's of Las Vegas and told that I was barred at the national level. Of course, the Unity of the Religion is paramount, a unity that ignores the independent investigation of the truth which Bahai's claim to support. Is it by casting out anyone who doesn't fall in line, even when they don't really know Baha'u'llah's writings and have not read them all? The time has never been more eminent to mediate between Jews, Muslims, and Christians. Christian Nationalists in America believe that America was created to be a Christian nation, and support Israel against the Muslims though they don't know history, the Bible, or the Constitution. They are leading us to Armageddon because they believe Jesus will rapture them and they will avoid the consequences of their ignorance. They refer to the Jews as "God's Chosen People" which is a slap in the face to all the other religions and decent people of the world. It the Bahai's are to have any success in the negotiation of the peace process, they need to enlist the help of the many authors and professors who are now deconstructing the Abrahamic religions. Their scriptures cannot remain in tact unless they are very specifically reframed by Bahai scriptures in a way that reveals the greater truth. And the Bahai's need to be honest about the fact that Zoroaster also referred to prophets as messengers, and the true unity of all religions long before Baha'u'llah. Be honest. Religion is politics. And it is largely propaganda. Baha'u'llah forbid military service or affiliation with political parties, but that is not going to solve the issues. "Because God told me" is no authentication. Because God said so in the Bible, the Torah, or the Koran is also not valid, provable authentication. Be for real. The framework of the religion has to be based on verifiable fact, history, and linguistic accuracy. Before that, it is unproven faith, suspicion, belief, or conspiracy theory. Not truth. The truth continues to unfold before our very eyes, and the pieces of the jig saw puzzle are coming together rapidly. The Bahai's need to wise up and stay on top of things lest they quickly become irrelevant and out of touch..

[@persalba]

Infinitely helpful and inspiring to reach a new level of appreciation on how these major Wisdom traditions complement each other and come from the same Source 🙏🏼❤️

[@tomkidake2546]

So inspiring so wonderful. Thanks Dr. David.

[@slrobbins3415]

DEAR SIR. I HAVE BEEN A BAHA'I SINCE 1979 SEPT 9TH. FOR MY CHOSEN HIGHWAY WAS & IS, & ALWAYS WILL BE IN SEEKING THE PRESENCE OF ABDUL'BAHA ! MY DEAR FRIEND IN BAHA , IN MY JOURNEY IN WORLD I HAVE FOUND THE CONNECTORS WHICH TIES ALL YHE RELIGIONS OF MAN INTO ONE EMBRASSING FAITH ! THIS MUST BE PROVEN ACCORDING TO THE LAWS OF GOD AS IT WAS WITH THE OLD TESTEMENT PROPHETS ! NAME, DATE, ADDRESS , & PURPOSE ! JESUS & BAHA'U'LLAH ARE THE TWO ANOINTED "SONS" THAT STAND BY THE LORD OF THE WHOLE EARTH. ZACH. AS OTHERS ! IF I CAN SHOW THESE THINGS WITH CLARITY, WOULD YOU CONSIDER THE IDEA , THAT IS JUST 2 OF 9 FRUITS OF THE TREE OF LIFE ! I AM HOPING , WE CAN CORRESPOND CONCERNING THESE MATTERS ! IN EL'ABHA STEVEN.

[@tedbrownstein2780]

Great talk. We are currently in the middle of a Wilmette Institute course, Christianity for Deepening and Dialogue. One of the major themes of the course is the logical requirement to understand the Christian New Testament as spiritual teaching per the teachings of the Baha'i Writings. ""Our belief in regard to Christ is exactly what is recorded in the New Testament; however, we elucidate this matter and do not speak literally or in a manner based merely on blind belief." - (Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 147) Thank you, Dr. Young, for make that point so well in this talk and giving so many clear examples of non-literal NT language regarding Christ's resurrection, ascension, etc.

[@normajeanray]

If the Bahai' teachings are exactly the same as Jesus's teachings, then we don't need to know what the Bahai's teach, but stich with the original teachings for less confusion.

[@cruzianfibergeek]

Remember also the social teachings need refreshing and updating. Bahai teachings address the needs of the current stage of man's development.

[@wendyscott8425]

@@normajeanray Less confusion? With over 30,000 competing sects of Christianity, each of them thinking they're sticking with "the original teachings" of Jesus? The church I grew up in (the original Millerite church) had a particularly strange view of what would happen when Christ returned. So when I was 13, I decided to intensely study their arguments for a year, at the end of which I left that church and never looked back. I couldn't imagine that a loving God would do things the way they believed (and so far, He hasn't). It has only been through the study of the Bahá'í writings that I was able to better understand the mission of Christ in a way that made sense and put it all together. I am grateful to my former church, however, since it gave me a good knowledge of the Bible so that I could see immediately how the Bahá'í Faith fulfilled biblical prophecy.

[@roohiehafnan4016]

Brilliant speech 🙏🙏

[@afruze14]

This was a brilliant talk. I've sent this to literally everyone I know. I absolutely loved it.

[@therailbob]

Here is a playlist of Dr. Young's "Teaching Christians More Effectively" series. I highly recommend it! kzbin.info/aero/PLu5Iw9lUTIN5-0oBOePTZfznlp3lVlR2A

[@johndoee3850]

Very good!Thanks

[@sukumarannair6471]

That the eternal Truth,here in Malaysia with the aborigines say: “Kebenaran adalah Satu! Sudah Masuk Masuk saperti paku dlm terus dlm hati saya dan tidak dapat cabut keluar !” Like that of nail gone deep into my heart and no way out this eternal Truth can ever be denied from my heart!”

[@jwhitebwc]

Dear Friends, Thank you for such a clear scholarly talk-lesson. I am a Baha’i from New Zealand. May I ask how I would be able to get a copy of the notes read on the talk?

[@aroncarver9013]

Allah'u'abha! This is off topic, but did you go on pilgrimage to haifa 2 years ago in december? I believe I may have been in your group if so!

[@aroncarver9013]

@Ajit Giani what a wonderfully small world! I was friends with David Youngs son growing up in Oregon and had the privilege of listening to some talks by David as well. I hope you're well and in good spirits dear friend

[@normajeanray]

What I've learned here is if the Bahia beliefs are the exact teachings of Jesus's teaching, we only need the teachings of Jesus. So there's no future need of any teachings other than Jesus's teachings. I remain faithful to Christ alone. Jesus said He would go, but send his Comforter to continue to guide us. And we know the Comforter would remind us of all Jesus taught. That's why it's important to know our Bible's, so the Comforter can remind us of what Jesus taught not what anyone else taught. So we don't need Jesus plus the Bahia teachings, but Jesus's teaching alone. God is not a God of confusion. He sent His Son to save those that look to Him only.

[@bakhtyaarshahzad5806]

The Son has come again in the glory of the Father.

[@divinebahaiknowledge]

The same idea you said was believed by the Jews who denied Jesus, and pagans who denied Prophet Muhammad PBUH.

[@wendyscott8425]

Bahá'u'lláh is the Comforter that Jesus promised. And yes, He has reminded us of what Jesus taught as well as confirmed Jesus' Divinity. Jesus would not have promised to come with a new name in the Glory of the Father if He intended His followers to reject Him when that happened. And yet, that is what always happens with most people, as the Jews, for the most part, rejected Jesus as their Messiah. As you say, God is not the author of confusion. If Jesus had meant for people to never turn to anyone else after He had gone, He wouldn't have made all those prophecies and warnings in Matt. 25, imho.

[@williamdennisuk99]

I believe the message is that it is a confirmation, continuation, and elaboration of the teaching of Christ. Here the statement "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you." John 16:12-13. This is the promise Bahá'í believe is fulfilled in the Bahá'í teachings.

[@thoibameiteilongjam-iv4yf]

How can I get that document?

[@melanyblove]

The both/and concept is missing in this lecture and inhibits the learners from understanding Biblical science & historic accuracy. For example: in the beginning was the word = vibration/energy moving at a certain rate creates all things. Einstien wrote a simple equation, e=mc² to explain this. Another example : you reap what you sow = a law of nature. When you plant corn your get corn when you plant envy you also get that back. Another example the Biblical laws concerning money lending and not to lend at interest = multiplying by a fraction lessons the whole number. Historic elements outlined in the accounting of family linage in Genesis = the plethora of begats. The Pythagorian and originally Khemetic theory, a² + b² = c² is outlining the Mother + Father begat or equal a child. That child will become the hypotheses or hypotenuse of their parenting. There are geometric proofs called the 10 commandments or If this than that logics as well as therapeutic advice and sociological understandings like the stories of Cain & Able, Joseph & the coat of many colors, King Solomons' wisdom. The list of scientific and historically provable consepts is lengthy and often misinterpreted because of the -isms held. Which is why Je'sus warned against judging one another in a negative way. Biblical instruction clarifies all things are working towards the good of those that love the Lord. In other words, you can learn from everything in creation.

[@Parujim]

Wrong about Peter since the two petros and petra in Greek are mistranslated and it was not Peter or his faith (which made him deny Jesus thrice soon thereafter), but Peters's statement about Christ's station which was the ROCK upon which was built the Christian civilization, which by the way was again the product of the travels of Paul --who, while never having met Jesus yet took Christ's word , "but go ye out into the world and preach this gospel of the kingdom""=and not as Peter believed that Christ was only for the lost sheep of Israel. As the Sanskrit saying goes "what one does not understand one explains to others". I hope you can also remember the correct meaning in Aramaic on Christ's last word , which according to the Master were "Oh God how glorifiest thou me".

[@normajeanray]

I'm confused. Are you a Christian or Baha'i?

[@timothyflynn1927]

If u think that the "trinity" is found in the bible u obviously havent read it. The trinity doctrine in "christianity" has to do with the nature of God and that God is three petsons comprising one God. Its actually unbiblical. I thought bahais were believers in one God like jews or muslums???