Christianity groomed me to be submissive, silenced, and shamed - Stephanie Logan

T/W - child abuse, marital abuse, church abuse and scandals, discussion of suicide ideation
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Today I spoke with Stephanie Logan, a former evangelical homeschool mom, one-time missionary, and pastor’s wife who ultimately deconverted as she examined the claims of Christianity.
We discussed many topics, including:
• Growing up in the Christian Missionary Alliance denomination, which was focused on the Gospel and holiness.
• Being told her righteousness was like a filthy rag and that Jesus could buy us out of our slavery to sin.
• Placing her faith in the Jesus character around age 8 and becoming very serious about the faith.
• Hearing the message that if you really honor the Lord, you will serve him and stop sinning.
• Hearing alter calls in church on a regular basis and frequently going up in response as a way of being sure that she was really saved.
• Constantly second guessing herself and her motives as she was taught to examine and "police" herself.
• Seeing church leaders anoint people with oil as part of their central focus on healing.
• Never feeling "good enough" and "right enough" in her relationship with god, and consequently not feeling confident that her eternal salvation was truly secure.
• Feeling constant anxiety and fear in her personal relationship with god.
• Fearing the being "left behind" when the Rapture occurred and possibly facing the Tribulation, especially in the larger context of being told that the End Times and Armageddon were about to begin.
• Attending Mission Conferences and youth events where she was urged to sacrifice everything to become a missionary and share the Gospel full time.
• How a strong mixture of her fear of not being good enough, her strong desire to truly please the Lord, peer pressure, and overwhelming manipulation by preachers led her to become a missionary.
• Feeling increasingly concerned about social justice but realizing that she had to keep it quiet in the church environment.
• Coming under the leadership of a youth pastor who was grooming girls to be in inappropriate situations.
• Facing significant pushback, rebuke, and shunning from church leaders and congregants who refused to admit that a church leader had been grooming young girls and lying about it.
• How church leaders are often given immunity to be investigated and exposed for their abuses.
• How church leaders use the preachment that you must forgive others and pursue the peace and unity of the church as a way to ignore or minimize abuse and let abusers continue grooming and abusing people.
• Hearing from a man at college that god had told him that she was supposed to be his wife and serve the Lord with him.
• How teachings by Elisabeth Elliot and Focus on the Family led her to think that wifely submission would lead to god's blessing and protection.
• Strongly believing that despite the abuse and suffering, god would eventually makes things right.
• Catching her husband in affairs multiple times but feeling the need to forgive him and focus on serving the Lord as missionaries.
• Believing that so long as someone apologizes and repents, you should keep on forgiving and restoring them.
• Studying her Bible several hours a day in order to stay grounded and closer than ever to god despite the chaos and abuse she was facing.
• Ideating about suicide as the situation got desperate.
• Realizing that she'd repeatedly been silenced and shamed by church leaders, all due to her being a woman.
• Concluding that the Christian worldview did not work, that it was based on circular reasoning, and that she no longer believed.
• Having exponentially more peace after deconversion than while she was a Christian.
Many thanks to Stephanie for sharing her story!
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Connect with Stephanie!
snicklefritzch...
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Tim may be reached by email at: [e-mail]
_________________________________________
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--Tim
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Ending music by Eyal Raz, "Friends"
• Friends
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[@marlenemeyer9841]

My favorite Stephanie quote: “The peace that passeth understanding, that I had been promised all my life, came to me when I stopped going to church”. My sentiments exactly! For the first time every question I’ve had for years and years makes sense now…..it’s not true. It is the most peaceful my brain has ever been now that I don’t have to twist my mind in pretzels trying to make doctrine and dogma and ridiculous stories make sense. What a huge relief!

[@grantrobinson9129]

So well phrased: "twist my mind in pretzels ... " 👍

[@dorothyhusen6718]

I remember the exact moment when I too looked at my Bible and said to myself “I don’t believe this anymore”. It was quite a shocking moment.

[@delaemmasyd32]

@@lufhopespeacefully2037, it’s no better. Quran is bad as the Bible.

[@Emanuel_carey]

Glad to hear her story. Having my daughter has started my deconstruction. I don’t want to raise her in such a toxic environment, even if nothing happens to her. The possibility scares me.

[@manarcabrera2528]

This is so sad. I’m happy that she’s out off her marriage. The more I listen to similar stories the more I dislike religion. Sad.

[@SaffronHammer]

Enforced forgiveness is a huge problem, trauma, especially for the girls and women in these religions. Groomed for SA and to keep silent about it.

[@pinky9440]

Stephanie's story is heartbreaking. She had to endure so much. I am so glad she got out of that marriage. I am just as glad she escaped Christianity.

[@opinion3742]

Escaped Christianity or a fundamentalist interpretation of its teachings?

[@MG-ot2yr]

@@opinion3742 Either is bad

[@ljpearce5875]

Both!

[@sevenblessed2543]

@@opinion3742 they all failed her. Christianity is complete and utter toxic bullshit.

[@opinion3742]

@@MG-ot2yr Yeah, because telling people to love one another is patently bad. And to speculate on the nature of reality is mere metaphysical nonsense. As contemptible as many people from Christian institutions are I can't see a whole lot of separation in belief with those on the other end of the scale - they both start from equally narrow perspectives and struggle to intelligently interpret the writings of ancient people. Thank God for academics seeking knowledge and smart people seeking wisdom.

[@LouLouLion]

I'm starting to question my faith. Grew up in Penecostal churches. I studied the Bible for years, nonstop. I thought I finally made sense of things leaving Lordship salvation and going to OSAS. Once I realized I was in a very abusive relationship with a textbook narcissist for 17 yrs, and I finally left and started to heal, I started to see the similarities in the abusive relationship I was in, and the relationship I had with God. Now I can't unsee it. It's tough, regardless

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thank you for sharing that, Heather. I sincerely wish you peace on the journey. Feel free to reach out for an interview when the time is right. --Tim

[@MG-ot2yr]

Good luck to you Heather, be strong!

[@RobertCharles-i1k]

The truth should never fear investigation.

[@trilithon108]

Projection is a real thing, and I wish you well wherever you go😊

[@tinyshepherdess7710]

Exactly. And god, nor the people who worship him, shouldn't fear investigation either. @@RobertCharles-i1k

[@thegreyman]

Great chat, I hope that leaving Christianity helped her to accept her son's sexuality

[@tinyshepherdess7710]

How many women endure lives like this? HOW MANY??? In my own family I can already identify 3 before blinking an eye. Really hoping the growing online community supporting religious deconversion leads women out of these highly abusive/one-sided relationships where, in order to please a mythological god, women willingly do the giving, forgiving & obeying while men get all the pleasure, authority & power.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Well said.

[@tinyshepherdess7710]

I should add that her abusive past prior to her marriage pretty much trained her to believe that in order to please "god," she had to be less than, to forgive unconditionally, to endure, to essentially renounce any of per personal desires and even then, she didn't feel good enough! And I was absolutely gobsmacked when she described her interest in social justice as sin, something she had to hide. Yikes.

[@sidstovell2177]

OMG!! Joking. I'm horrified by Stephanie's story and what you're writing.

[@Pallasathena-hv4kp]

What she said about forgiveness as a weapon, it reminds me of the line Coffee said in the Green Mile: He used they love against them. 😢

[@esewed75]

A "hell yeah" for John Coffee.

[@danielladavis8705]

This was a very difficult episode. The evangelical church really is showing unabashed hatetred of women. Best wishes to you on your journey Stephanie!

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Well said. Sad dynamics, for sure. Hoping for better days and better ideas ahead.

[@stephanielogan5542]

Thank you

[@helencahn7293]

Such a good episode! This woman is so brave and so self determined. I just want to reach in and give her and all women who are abused by men and by religion a big hug. In my view, all religions serve the purpose of control. In their inception, religions rise up to impose order and eventually become a potent source of power and domination.

[@brendaturnblom1948]

Forgiving 70x7, enduring to the end, and turning the other cheek allow abuse to flourish! Accountability and consequences are needed to stop abuse, forgiveness enables it.

[@ProJMFPWT14]

All many of us ever got from religion or christianity is a lifetime of trying to recover from psychological ruin. My heart goes out to all of you!

[@petmur2451]

What a wonderful person Stephanie is and what an excellent interview Tim. It’s stories like this that will turn the church to rubble, and that can’t happen to quickly.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Agreed!

[@studiohermited7052]

I am a C&MA PK. I wish my mother could have talked to someone like you before she died, maybe she could have gotten a little peace. My wish is that these patriarchal cults would all go away, but I fear they are just ramping up. Maybe the next generation can get it right.

[@montagdp]

These interviews are so therapeutic for me. Just listening to different people whose stories are in many ways similar to mine, sometimes even helping me reflect and remember things I have experienced and felt but not thought about in a while. The sentiment of never feeling like I was good enough for God in this story really resonates with me. Thanks Tim and to Stephanie and all the other people sharing their stories.

[@Pallasathena-hv4kp]

I appreciate her willingness to be steadfast and sincere. I respect that. Even if it meant she was trapped for so long. I am so glad she broke free of her demented environment. I respect her resilience. She makes me feel proud! PS: It really riled up my sense of social justice to see such a good person used and manipulated. I have a story to tell also.

[@deannapowell7237]

I know the word snickelfritz! My mom (who's grandmother Anna Freuling, came from Germany through Holland during WWII) used to call my mom snickelfritz too, and I once named my cat snickelfritz! Very fun to hear someone else use that word. I grew up in Washington and California. Thank you for sharing your story.

[@someonerandom256]

I had that same experience with Mere Christianity towards the end of my deconstruction. I was listening to the audiobook because I had always admired CS Lewis, and was looking for a way to hold on, and I was listening and just thought "I'm done with this book. He's talking in circles, and it's not convincing." A few days later I listened to a Richard Carrier talk on KZbin and a switch just FLIPPED in my brain. My faith just melted away like cotton candy.

[@carolwilliams8511]

Agree about C S Lewis. I read all his Christian books in my young days of fervour.

[@psts2006]

Having watched several episodes of the interview, I sympathize with the experience of these guests. I live in Taiwan, China, and traditionally our religious views are less exclusive and less coercive. My religious choices are made through my rational discernment, and I don't have to take into account the pressures from my family, peers, and community. I have been in and out of Christianity, Buddhism, and Taoism for many years, but through my own relentless and extensive listening, learning, and thinking, I have determined last year that I will no longer waste my precious life on beliefs based on false illusions, myths, and anachronisms.

[@scofah]

Great interview! Thank you for sharing your story, Stephanie. Wishing you and your kids all the best.

[@barryrichins]

Tim. I was very much a Mormon for 75 years until my cognitive dissonance got too great. I enjoyed listening today because I was reminded again how religion can be and frequently is destructive. Now 82, I believe that I still have a great deal to share with exMormons and Christians. I am a retired College professor, and I still like to dwell on the critical thinking concepts I once taught in my comp and literature classes. It was probably while teaching sections of Old and New Testament concepts in world lit classes that I finally became and agnostic, leaning toward atheism. I have enjoyed studying exMormon and exChristian authors and am reminded that high-demand religion, no matter its source, can and does damage and sometimes destroy its members. I am willing to sit down with you and share with your audience what it was like to be a Mormon for so long and what my deconstruction has done for. Of course, I'd like to share my story because I have no idea how long I'll be around; however, I only want to share, if you or others find what I might have to say worthwhile. Take care, my friend in experience.

[@sidstovell2177]

I'm amazed how many ex-Mormons become evangelical christians. In Mexico 100,000 Catholics a year, are turning to the alternate christian religions. A thing of wonder to this forever non-believer.

[@nighteyeson]

Can't be good enough at church and can't be good enough for her own mother..Poor child...so sad growing up like that...what a wonderful person ..

[@nighteyeson]

One of the most terrible stories I ever heard...a good woman surrounded by monsters most of her life.

[@sidstovell2177]

Agreed.

[@jeannemalaby2688]

I grew up ALWAYS afraid of the rapture because you never know if you are holy enough !! We heard all these same scare tactics !! So glad to be totally free!!!

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Yes!

[@lizhughes2852]

So much of your story chimed with mine. Watched a 'Thief in the Night' in our Friday night youth group too. 😟

[@dantallman5345]

Still don’t like electric shavers, LOL.

[@MacAutomationTips]

Her story is incredibly sad, and it explains how deeply delusional, toxic, and warped religion can be. Her religious faith blinded her and made her submissive.

[@AgcidentallyAgnostic]

34:51 Yes, Stephanie!- How disgusting that we could be brainwashed- and then- robbed of listening to our own “hearts” and desires! 💔 So good to be healing from that, and still have time to learn to listen to ourselves! Thank you for sharing your story!

[@sidstovell2177]

Such an intelligent and articulate woman! Such a horror story!

[@totonow6955]

Thank you! Finally a person has put into proper perspective the moment Trump was elected we knew we'd never know truth from evangelicals.

[@dkMansell96]

This is probably the saddest one you’ve done so far. Felt like I had a lump in my throat for the whole thing. I feel so angry for her. As a man who was a southern baptist christian for the first 21 years of my life I’ve heard a few stories similar to this about just…evil men. Obviously abuse such as this happens across ideologies, but the patriarchal bullshit in this religion breeds some real psychos along with women that are conditioned to believe they are essentially nothing without their husbands.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Well said.

[@FranklyTheyCallMeFrankie]

But in the bible it also says husbands love your wife with everything you have like Jesus loves his church and only calls women to ‘respect’ their husband. Which puts more pressure on men if not equal pressure. Something a lot of churches don’t focus on! Churches get the bible wrong a lot of times. If a church says something out of context of the bible I walk out! So many people don’t, and put too much trust in the preacher rather than God.

[@sizzlinbacon9718]

Sadly, there are likely a HUGE number of “believers” who can listen to your story and STILL find a way to blame you! As a student of and advocate for those in intimate partner violence, particularly focusing on teen dating violence prevention, it somehow the abused woman is never free of blame. Good on you for owning your life. The journey does not end immediately but I applaud your courage to step out on THE word: that you ARE wonderfully made and worthy of respect. Yaaay, Y-O-U! 👏🏾

[@Pallasathena-hv4kp]

Wow. I can hear the feeling in her voice and I just started the video 😟

[@pinky9440]

I love this back and forth between them, with Tim asking questions. It is much more realistic than just having the guest telling their story. The guest's story is what it is about, but the questions from Tim's side is great.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thank you so much for your encouragement! Please reach out if you'd like to do an interview. --Tim

[@Matira269]

Of coursr, Tim as interviewer must draw out the narrator, and this adds depth. This was a very intetesting interview.

[@scofah]

I loved Tim's 's questions and his little extra stories along the way too. It feels like they're really having a conversation and sharing themselves with each other and with us. I love it.

[@tiffanysmith7419]

I can relate to sooo much of Stephanie's story. I grew up in the Nazarene church which was part of the Wesleyan Holiness Movement.

[@SaffronHammer]

This interview really hit home for me. I find it very healing to hear stories so similar to mine, and healing journeys that I can relate to and take courage and encouragement from. Thank you for all the interviews you do; it is an important service to an under-served population, as i see it. We who are healing from Religious Trauma are so lucky to have you.

[@SaffronHammer]

thank you for the wishes of peace. I do have peace in my life and wish you the same!@@lufhopespeacefully2037

[@jenslimberg9008]

This made me very sad. I’m a Christian still but glad I didn’t bring my kids up in a church. What a mess and it’s astounding those church people had zero discernment as to the events. Peter knew when a believer lied to him.

[@rolandwatts3218]

After that interview I need a jaw replacement. I had to pick my jaw up from the floor so often. Stephanie's life up to 2018 shows just how Christian theology easily enslaves people. I am so glad she had the ability and the courage to finally walk away. But wow. I hope Stephanie's life goes from strength to strength as she unravels the damage done by that past. I hope her children have better and brighter futures as well. What a testimony. I hope it's not triggering to anyone but on another channel I had critiqued a content producer who downplayed the role of the bible in degrading women. About a month later a person responded with:- >>> "Women shouldn’t speak in church. It’s not degrading. There’s a hierarchy. God is patriarchal, Christianity is patriarchal. And that’s perfect the way it is. Because that’s the original design God intended for anyways. God Jesus Man Woman Children It is not degrading at all. It’s the way men use it that can be abused. Women have important roles in the church. They can be prophetesses. Not overseers. Men and women have assigned roles. If your boss gave you an assigned role, you’d do it yes? I’d hope so. Women are taught to be quiet in church because the woman was deceived by satan, not man. Man was weak, and let himself be manipulated by Eve. That’s the battle we face today." > " @rolandwatts3218 it doesn’t matter what I believe as long as I adhere to the doctrine that Jesus is God. Convo is over. Not debating with you. Waste of my time and energy. You’re set on your path, I hope the lord has mercy on you and grace, and that you see the full truth, and not submit to the doctrine of the world and be a real man."

[@sauder1971]

Amazing story but I'm not surprised. I have seen this stuff before as an exvangelical. And this also is. Common among Mormons, JWs, Conservative Catholics and many other groups because it is systemic in what the Bible teaches.

[@hereweare9096]

No it isn’t. Men are supposed to LOVE their wives. Loving their wives means looking after them mentally.emotionally and physically… maybe that part of the Bible hasn’t been shown to you.

[@sevenblessed2543]

Thank you for sharing her story I can't help but to feel sorry for her. ❤ I'm glad she's in a better place in life. I wish her nothing but happiness 😊

[@vdub2014]

I found your channel yesterday and i just want to say you are doing amazing work with these interviews and sharing these stories for people to hear. The guts that all of these people have is inspiring.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thank you for your support and encouragement!

[@Flyspray420]

Amazing story.

[@SaffronHammer]

2h 8m : former Mormons call that one's shelf breaking; enough items of doubt, logic, negative experiences are placed on a shelf and one tries to forget them, carry on--until the Shelf of Faith completely breaks.

[@LadyhawksLairDotCom]

When I was a kid, those horribly acted movies terrified me. _A Distant Thunder_ gave me nightmares for months. I was terrified about being left behind and having to have my head cut off in order to go to heaven. They played this stuff for little kids to terrify them into compliance! When I was child, I often worried my mother would disappear (raptured) and I would be left behind. I just turned 57. A couple of weeks ago, my mother told me if she disappeared, I'd _really_ be in trouble, but I could still make it. She was crying, actually believing this lifelong lie. To me, loving people in the fundamentalist / evangelical / Trump cult has been infinitely _worse_ than the prospect of having my head chopped off. There are fates worse than death. I can't help but think that *THIS* is how people on either side of the Civil War felt. I love my family, but I can't walk the same path.

[@ChristerHugo-sf4cf]

Very powerful and moving. Thank you so much!

[@MrsBridgette2012]

It’s so true. This is what just happens regularly in churches. And we are made to feel like the guilty party. They throw out,”Let he that is without sin, cast the first stone “. And “Judge not, lest you be judged “. Yeah, forgive and forget. Don’t go around “gossiping “. So the creeps continue serving their god. My mom actually looked me right in my eyes and said,” You better stop doing whatever you’re doing to make him do that”. I asked,”What am I doing?” She said,” I don’t know, you have to figure it out and stop it”. I was 11 years old. And to this day I don’t know what I did. That was the last time I told her anything. I learned trust no one.

[@RobertCharles-i1k]

Great interview. Thank you Tim and Stephanie.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thank you for your encouragement, Robert! --Tim

[@trilithon108]

Liked her story very much and look forward to part 2.😊

[@letahamilton]

So much silence. So glad it’s being shown the light. 😊

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Well said.

[@tonycaine5930]

What an awesome woman of faith. Excellent interview and story.

[@lesliewells-ig5dl]

Thanks so much for doing this video! I have literally never heard anyone before that was thinking the same way i thought during the whole ordeal of Christianity and abuse. The details aren't all the same, but underneath the details, it was the same. Thank you! I am going to start reading your blog. Thank you Tim!!

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thank you, Leslie!

[@lesliewells-ig5dl]

@@HarmonicAtheist You're welcome!!!!

[@lesliewells-ig5dl]

Altar calls!! I had a panic attack when i was 10 everytime they had an altar call. I thought those s ary feelings were god telling me i didn't do it right--whatever that even means. It was my therapist years and years later, that told me they were panic attacks. Missing the rapture, i was terrified of missing the rapture pretty much the whole time i was a Christian. I'm so glad you both got oout of the bondage of Christianity and that i got out too!!!

[@KELLY-maybeiCudBeUrGirlfriend]

Thank you Stephanie Logan for sharing your story. It was very brave of you & very helpful to me & I have learned from you. And Im so very sorry for the abuse you suffered. I am so glad that you are here. You are as beautiful on the inside as you are on the outside and you are helping more people than you will ever know. THANK YOU!! And thank you Tim Mills for having Stephanie Logan on your channel & thank you for your great questions to her & for your great comments. (You always ask your guests such GREAT questions!! And you always say such great & helpful things to them (& your viewers) I am constantly learning from you & your channel❤❤

[@MrTimthetoyman]

Amazing story. I related to do many aspects of it and I'm so glad to hear that you're free and doing well finally. ❤

[@jfarr206]

It’s cool to hear a story from a fellow former C&MA person. Thanks for sharing!

[@KARENboomboomROXX]

Every single thing in the description except for being married to a cheating pastor, is identical to my experience

[@SaffronHammer]

Halfway through and I am struck by how much as a born in JW, i can relate. So much trauma....

[@carolwilliams8511]

She is such a lovely person after all she has been through. A joy to listen to, despite the harrowing details.

[@infofromgreg]

Thank you, Stephanie and Tim!! Very helpful!

[@Georgia-oi6ie]

Really great interview.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thank you! I so appreciate Stephanie sharing her story.

[@rodbuchanan7631]

Such a harrowing story! Great interview.

[@swim610]

My heart breaks but im so proud of this woman.

[@AleksandraTheGreat]

GOOD MORNING Tim I am so sorry haven't reached out yet. Is hard for a single mama give me few days at the weekend i be off 3 days!!!! Anyway just put the podcast on and going to listen at work on my earphones

[@HarmonicAtheist]

No worries, take your time, whenever it works out ... looking forward to connecting and sharing your story. --Tim

[@sidstovell2177]

You're a hero.

[@sidstovell2177]

Excellent interview. Very best wishes to both of you. 👍

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thanks, Sid!

[@sizzlinbacon9718]

Wow! In the early to mid 1960’s I attended a Bible camp in East Stroudsburg, PA: MOUNTAINBROOK (for girls). The boys’ camp, across the tiny pond, was SHADOWBROOK. The camp was run by the family of Percy Crawford. One year, my counselor was a student at TOCCOA FALLS; where her parents were administrators! Small, small world. BTW, it was at that “Christian” camp where I got my first, official, undeniable experience with anti Blackness; aka, racism. IJS 😒

[@Matira269]

A pity that in an evangelical setting you were made to feel guilty about caring about social justice.

[@frankburke6298]

When your spouse (especially in a Christian marriage) lies to you about important issues, it’s clearly time to get out - to protect yourself. Truth is as essential in marriage as in politics, even more so. To lie indicates the marriage is already over. What is a marriage, at essence? Yes, divorce is not pleasant, but there are worse things. Your life is more important than a sham marriage.

[@robertnorth1681]

Yeah, I think the Trump thing is going to be a turning point for many people.

[@MG-ot2yr]

I feel for people trapped in that toxic religion. I rejected the indoctrination as a child, although my parents were liberal Catholics so it was a pretty tame version. This was back in the 1960s, a time when religiosity was quite high even outside the Bible Belt, but you still couldn't tell anyone or you'd get shunned. I remember once letting it slip to friends, and their reaction was as though I had just announced I was an axe murderer lol so I quickly said I was just kidding and remained a closet atheist until about the 1980s. Good luck to Stephanie and others struggling to deconvert and have a peaceful, happy, fulfilling life!

[@laurief.2910]

That was a fantastic interview!

[@theitineranthistorian2024]

permanent anxiety sucks. religion is in the business of corrupting legitimate “self policing”. most of us want to do good.

[@darlapirner7340]

It sounds like narcissism abuse from the ex husband

[@LouLouLion]

That's what caused me to question things. The more I learned about the abusive relationship I was in, the more I saw similarities in my relationship with God.

[@ThatsNotMyWife]

I'd like to hear more about her relationships with her children after deconversion.

[@Brent-gr3ot]

A very good guest story, thanks much, I very much appreciate and accept these honest factual critiques of Christianity in your channel. Fifty years ago I accepted Christ in a time of deep otherwise-hopeless personal crisis (due to having come from a dysfunctional family, by a father who did not permit love or kindness or free conversation in the family) and have experienced various enormous benefits from that since then, for which I am very grateful. In that experience I have stayed out of and been vigilant against the religious fundamentalist version of Christianity that would lead one to be a type of practicing hermit and a falling behind in educational and professional and skill-set accomplishments and lifestyle quality. In the last couple of years I have come to consider that the Bible harmfully and autocratically pays no attention to or properly acknowledges the major subject reality of parental neglect and abuse of children, showing no acknowledgement of or compassion for or understanding of the details of the profound and terrifying suffering of children in that situation and nowhere condemning or seeking to correct or instruct parents guilty of parental incompetence and parental neglect and abuse of their children. The Bible (in both the Old and New Testaments) also adamantly prohibits the acknowledgement and constructive criticism of these incompetent and neglectful and abusive parents [: 'Thou shalt honor thy father and mother, that you may live long......' and 'He who speaks evil of his father or mother let him surely die']. This has roused a noticeable element of anger and criticism and disgust and contempt in me against God and also against Christ and I am trying to work through this yet trying to preserve the benefits and security that my faith has given me so far.

[@hnybee113]

@Stephanie Logan get in touch with Shelise from @Cults to Consciousness. She Is an ex mormon with a heart of gold. THAT MOVIE TRAUMATIZED ME IN 8TH GRADE BIBLE CLASS. I developed anxiety with IBS after that movie. I should have really confided in my mom and my mom could have sued the school for causing me terror that i wasnt going to make it to my 18th bday. Ugh. It infuriates me that that was all my teacher talked about to 12 and 13 year olds going through puberty. How cruel could adults be back in 1990. Geesh!! Thanks for making me feel less alone of how silly i sometimes feel about such ridiculous fears. 🙃

[@stepatton12985]

Wow, what a powerful story. A courageous woman indeed xxx

[@ruporter9834]

amazing conversation/thankyou

[@theitineranthistorian2024]

beautiful revelation, out the door.

[@subcitizen2012]

Something I suspect is a theme with sexual abuse and harassment in churches is the expectations of traditional marriage and relationship arrangements. Young men are inverse groomed to pursue marriage and having a family, typically with a younger woman, it's like a fast lane or fast laned to pursuing gods will or however it might be phrased. So there's a form of pressure on young men to find a wife, and what starts off as a pursuit of godly things, so to speak, morphs into attempts to seduce and push those sexual boundaries. Hence the flip of it being protected activity by whatever authority. Obviously this would be case by case basis and this dynamic would overlap significantly with the behavior of outright predators, but it's like the traditional values sort of encourage or even create a predatory environment and behavior like that. What a mind eff. It's so tragic. What a mess.

[@liatresanos3769]

No, men in their spontaneous state don't want marriage. They want sex, it is their basic setting. I don't think sexual advances per se are an indication of wanting marriage. Remember this: men can use the thing between their legs for "making love".... or... to show dominion for example, war rapes or rapes "for fun" of disabled people. Marriage is part of a social upgrade process but men don't function on that basis when the matter is sexual gratification, they know it is socially wrong to go after someone agressively but they don't care about the target. I am a woman and this is how I see it.

[@davidhutchinson5233]

Nothing like that good old Christian "love".

[@pragmaticcrystal]

Excellent

[@damecommander868]

Keep Going tim! 🚀 great interview 😊

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thank you!!

[@iw9338]

Yeppers 😮 i listened to Elizabeth Elliot too, awful advice tolerating all the nonsense from a spouse 😮

[@LeighAlbright]

Any way to add a link/info to Stephanie’s Blog?

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Hi, yes, it's in the description, but I'll add it here as well: snicklefritzchronicles.com/

[@derekcrews2781]

Thanks!

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thank you, Derek!! I really appreciate that. --Tim

[@sdb6757]

Hey Tim! I love the topics and people you talk too. I do wish that the interviews could be edited down to maybe just the best 45 minutes or so. I usually just don’t have two hours to hear everything.

[@Mikebruno1187]

Listen on 2x speed

[@GonzalesLanguages]

That creepy guy, wasn't he Trump? Oh, I forgot he never went to churches.

[@anthonyburke5656]

I had never articulated the “subjugation” process of any religion before, but this lady does. Perhaps you should open the discussion more, as far as I’ve been able to observe, ALL religions practise subjugation, not only females, but most of the males of the congregation. Religion is hierarchical and the subjugation “pushes down” through the hierarchy. Of course the effect is much more observable on females.

[@kellishafron5920]

Trump is why I lost my faith too!

[@Richard-b5r9v]

Just reading the Bible turned me into an atheist. I mean a TALKING SNAKE in the Garden of Eden???

[@sidstovell2177]

😂 Nice.

[@MacAutomationTips]

Same for me. When I read the Bible in high school, I realized that it is all mythology, but it took time to process that.

[@Richard-b5r9v]

@@MacAutomationTips Yes. The Bible is basically just a Story Book and should be treated as such

[@daphnemyers3985]

Can you tell me Stephanie's blog name please?

[@HarmonicAtheist]

snicklefritzchronicles.com/

[@Cuffsmaster]

very good

[@biashacker]

WOW!!!..............,

[@jenniferh.7219]

What is her blog again? Sickle prince what? Thank you!

[@antonius_006]

How do myths originate themselves ?

[@exvangelicarol5336]

💔❤‍🩹💪💖🦋

[@MM-yi9zn]

Such controlling misogyny

[@tedschwartz2142]

THEY SHOULD DO A BOUT HINDUISM .. BECAUSE NO RELIGION IS TRUE

[@justaperson1769]

Hinduism is just another religion, related to a creator god, Brahma, and the wish to be in union with Brahma, just based of mythology written by bunch of MEN. Place for women in Hinduism, hmm???? They too know how to cherry pick from books. That is the reason Buddha blatantly rejected the whole foundation of Vedas even though they both originated in the Subcontinent / South Asia. Buddha too was a person but stayed away from creation and divinity.

[@tedschwartz2142]

@@justaperson1769 i did not ask the infomation about it i said they should a debate about if HINDIISm is TRue ??

[@iw9338]

Thos is jeart wrenching.😢 Not being listened to 😮