I’m a better and happier person because of my departure from Christianity - Kyle Butler

Today I spoke with Kyle Butler, who grew up in a Christian home and became a pastor for 16 years before critically examining the claims of Christianity, and ultimately deconverting.
As we talked through his story, we touched on topics like:
• Feeling the sense of urgency as he reached the age of 13, the age of accountability, to get right with god.
• Repeatedly questioning his salvation because he struggled with sin and wondered if he was just temporarily struggling or not actually saved.
• How Lordship Salvation teachings ruined his life.
• Why the church is so afraid to scrutinize its narratives and to admit they are wrong and don't work.
• Admitting that the Gospel is powerless to change lives.
• Hearing people give him prophecies from god about his life and about god's will for him.
• The sense that he had to obey god's will, or god would force him to obey through humbling hardships -- and the consequences could be very painful.
• The bizarre cognitive dissonance in Christianity of a god who hurts and tortures his children and is yet called a loving and good father.
• The Christian dynamic of having people become teachers even when they don't understand the background of the Bible they are teaching.
• How the endless versions and varieties of Christianity and the resulting confusion and lack of consensus lead to wondering why that deity would be so confusing, if he were real.
• Believing that god was the head of our lives, that our lives were in his hands, that he was in control, and that we need to follow his plan and fully trust him, and that he cannot fail.
• How Christianity demands an obsessive, consuming love for Yahweh, Jesus, and the Biblical worldview.
• How Christianity is debilitating and punishing to believers, on many levels.
• How Christianity is ultimately revealed to be merely another tool to scare, control, and manipulate people.
• The message that the divine presence is constantly watching and judging you and can even see your thoughts and intentions.
• Realizing that the concept of a loving god cannot be reconciled with the teaching about eternal conscious torment.
• How we, when we were Christians, would gaslight ourselves constantly into thinking everything was our fault -- not the fault of god or the Christian machine.
• The bizarre Judeo-Christian narrative that the shedding of blood is required for forgiveness to occur, that it pleased god the father to torture his son Jesus, and that he ultimately needs to torture and kill someone -- either Jesus or sinners -- to be appeased.
• How the Lord's Table / Communion is a form of cannibalism, where we symbolically eat the flesh and drink the blood of a dead man.
• The importance of not indoctrinating the next generation into religion.
• Realizing that every religion has a god or gods, and every religion has a book, and that religion thus nothing more than a man-made structure where everyone is claiming to have the truth.
• How religion steals the precious time we have in life.
• Finding that you are a better, much happier person after we move on from Christianity.
• Being able, after our deconversion, to respect people and treat them with much more dignity than ever could when we were Christians.
Many thanks to Kyle for sharing his story!
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Connect with Kyle!
Tiktok @kyle_talks
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Mentioned in this video:
Dan Barker's video, "You Don't Have to Go Down in My Basement"
• You Don't Have To Go D...
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Tim may be reached by email at: [e-mail]
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--Tim
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Ending music by Eyal Raz, "Friends"
• Friends
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[@Bbarfo]

Great interview. My life is much better since leaving Christianity. No more self-imposed guilt of not being good enough.

[@SalemK-ty4ti]

I have never been happier since I became an Atheist. The thing I can't believe is how much nicer & kinder of a person I have become to my fellow man.

[@SalemK-ty4ti]

@@Paygelove Has he found any talking snakes? Any talking donkey’s? Yeah, fictional stories often use real places in them, but it doesn’t make the stories real. I mean we know snakes and donkey’s can’t talk. We know through many fields of science plus historical records that the Noah’s flood story is a myth.

[@pineapplepenumbra]

@@SalemK-ty4ti Don't forget iron axe heads swimming like fish, women turning into pillars of salt (some idiot tried to claim that we had the technology to do that), a man living in the belly of a fish for 3 days, the entire Universe being 6000 years old and whole host of other nonsense.

[@pineapplepenumbra]

@@Dzanarika1 It would be hard to ban religions as such, but banning the more toxic of cults, starting with things like scientology, jehovah's -witnesses- liars, etc, would be a good start (the latter expect to be banned, anyway). However, the _child abuse_ of bringing children up in _any_ cult/religious belief system needs to be recognised as such, and outright banned. Adults _don't_ have a "right" to abuse their children in such a manner. We don’t (if we’re responsible) let children have access to porn or recreational drugs, so why is it legal to expose them to far more dangerous material, such as the torah, bible and qur’an? The results of such exposure aren’t just potentially damaging to the children, but to the wider society, in a range of ways. No one under the age of 18 should be allowed to read such dangerous nonsense, it literally changes the way that people “think”, and it’s to their detriment. For example, one experiment reported in New Scientist (sadly, I've lost the issue, and would have to sign up to New Scientist in order to, possibly, find the article), detailed in interesting experiment with religious people in fMRI scanners. They were told that the next person they would hear was high up in their belief system. What happened was, the "suspicion circuits"* of the brain literally switched off. It's the same part of the brain that switches off when we're asleep, so that we don't (usually) question the insane situations we find ourselves in, in dreams. My mother was a christian, and had a high IQ (she could easily have joined Mensa, but didn't like the snobby attitude of some of its members), so it bewildered me, as a child, how she could fall for the _blatant_ bullshit of the bible. Obviously this was long before I read the study, and also long before I discovered just how awfully powerful, insidious and dangerous brainwashing is. I've talked to people who have said, "you can't call be stupid, I'm a lawyer/doctor/business person, etc", but I _can_ call them stupid, because, when it comes to their belief system, it _doesn't matter_ if they're a skillful surgeon, a successful business person, a sharp lawyer, etc, I might as well be arguing with a retarded child. *There's NO proper critical thinking being applied, even though they are **_convinced_** that there is.* *New Scientist's term, not mine.

[@justinporter458]

I agree Salem 1692 Atheists generally are less judgemental and not as afraid of death, we know we don't have to kiss God,s donkey for eternity but we get to sleep in for centuries. Justin porter ex jw

[@timothyj2971]

Same! And the awesome thing is that we now direct our lives, and it's not selfish of us. Now we don't have to wait around for a "god" to let us. That's what is so liberating

[@Beegee1952]

The 50+ years of recrimination, feeling like a failure and living with rejection by God is flooding through my mind as I listen. How many others have gone through all this pain? And for what? Believing a lie! Religion is SO destructive! Time for this nonsense to be exposed to the world for what it is, the biggest scam ever perpetrated on mankind! I really appreciate Kyle’s candor, transparency and honesty. Well said, Kyle.

[@satie321]

I applaud people who've been in these religions for decades, chained by terrible ideas and yet still find liberation! I believe, as a long-life atheist, that we need understanding through empathy and compassion. Never show contempt towards current or former believers.

[@Beegee1952]

@@satie321 Thank you so much. ❤️

[@satie321]

@@Beegee1952 Never have to thank me. I think it's just my humanity coming out. Because I recognize the suffering and burden that humans feel, then I throw sin/anxiety/unworthiness on top of trying to be a "normal" person. I care about you! unconditionally.

[@Bbarfo]

I hear you. I struggled my entire life trying to live the Christian life and suffered a self-emposed guilt when I couldn't. Finally about 5 years ago at age 57 I began to self study myself out of religion. Life is much better now that I know my "flesh" is just human nature. No more feeling like a failure. Life is grand.

[@Beegee1952]

@@Bbarfo I studied my way out, too! I know more about Christianity and where it fits in with other religions now than I ever did when I was a believer! Believers are encouraged to read the Bible and other Christian writings but, not the history or anything that might cast doubt. Threatened by truth?

[@henrim9348]

I'm a Black man who also grew up in church. What Kyle says about being in church all the time is so true. When I look back and I see the state of the Black community and I think about all the hours Black people spend in church and say to myself: If we just spend half that time learning STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Math), the wealth gap between Blacks and others ethic groups would be different. An hour less spent in church could be an hour to learn Math, Computer Science, Entrepreneurship, Finances, Critical Thinking, ...etc. I'm thankful, I left church early in my adulthood. But I know so many who are still trap in it, moving from one form of religion to another ... not realizing that it is the same.

[@LuminesBreezer--]

It's true though, my guy. .as a black man myself, both of my parents are still very much loyal to their Bibles as well as the Sunday sessions; my father being the most (they're divorced) as he's been indoctrinated since childhood. And sometimes just listening to him and even others can you sometimes get that idea of whom are simply clung to their roots unfortunately, no matter what's at face be it their insane losses, illnesses, anything.

[@Fourwindsofsuccess]

I agree I’ve said this before. Black people are heavily indoctrinated than other minorities imo but it’s not spoken about enough. They are either some form Christian denomination, into the woke consciousness conspiracies, Muslim, Islamic, Hotep or Hebrew Israelites. You can’t tell them a thing either because everything is a conspiracy theory or they’re under a severe delusion grandiosity. I always felt this is one reason the black community as a whole are in poverty but no one wants to say it because most are ‘god fearing’. You’re always in church 24-7, during holidays, and so forth persistently praying. Preparing for the ‘end times’ and all of that. Then they’ll quote the Bible even the ones who aren’t converted into that but the influence they were raised upon make them become that way. They can’t accept that religion is all a control tactic, mythology, sexist, fearmongering & dictatorship.

[@ladybugblu60]

Yes waisted time not to mention the money being giving. So here's an idea why not take that ten percent or whatever and give it towards your child's education or something else constructive . I'm just saying!

[@Muhluri]

That tithe money would be well spent building up educational centers that could help us find good jobs

[@esobed1]

I have just one word for this comment and all replies... Amen and Hallelujah! ( oops... my former Missionary Baptist/Holiness brainwashing slipped😊)

[@oakjazz]

One of my favourite discussions on this channel so far. I really enjoyed it, found myself hoping it would go on a bit longer. You need to bring him back for further details about his deconstruction. As a black man and an African, it’s difficult to explain how difficult it is for those of us who have decided to question the Bible, Christianity, it’s doctrines and religion as a whole. Any attempt to even hint at unbelief could lead to dire family and societal consequences. Sad, but true.

[@oakjazz]

Further to my message above, it would be absolutely shocking if you could somehow find an ex pastor/minister turned unbeliever or atheist from my home country of Nigeria to appear here. Nigeria has to be one of the most, if not the most religious country on the planet. The Muslims in the north are as fanatical as any of the crazy jihadists out there, while some Christians in the south are some of the most intense Christians you may ever come across. I have never actually seen an ex pastor/minister from back home publicly declare their unbelief. That would be something if you could find one.

[@booklover7624]

We’re in the same boat. Question anything religious or pertaining to God in Nigeria and you’re automatically labeled the heathen. Independent thinking and questioning isn’t encouraged. It’s a fear based performative religion

[@jovitaukadike9126]

​@@tomceman4451Gboko Haram

[@Muhluri]

This happens across so many countries. I think it's because churches are the main "3rd place" for black people

[@Matira269]

@@oakjazz The latest flavor that Africa, and the African diaspora are testing is called "Hebrew Israelites."

[@SUNROSE7878]

I found myself in Kyle's story, it resonated and I too am so happy, peaceful and joyous to be out of religion. It is the best thing I have ever done for myself - true FREEDOM!!!!

[@alicedeen720]

"I’m a better and happier person because of my departure from Christianity" Absolutely - me too. Thanks for this video I fully agree.

[@unicyclist97]

It's especially tough for pastors to overcome cognitive dissonance and escape the cult. Great interview, I love hearing from Kyle 🙂

[@curlyangel6]

"God doesn't like anything except Church " - this is why my life got so isolated and lonely in years.

[@joycesky5041]

WOW Kyle was a Pastor! I love hearing deconstructing stories of X-pastors. In my 30 years as a Christian without exaggeration I must have gotten re-saved about 50 times. I lived in constant fear of going to hell and felt that if I even breathed the wrong way that I’d go to hell so I had to keep getting saved…it was a total nightmare! I was in a Fundamentalist legalistic fire and brimstone Pentecostal church so the Pastors always made it sound like everything was a sin and all we heard was hell hell hell! My fear and anxiety was so severe that I ended up in psychiatric hospitals about 5 time’s with suicidal attempts because I believed that I’d never be good enough therefore I wouldn’t make it to heaven anyway! These preacher’s were stuck on perfection and to be perfect like our father in heaven is perfect…it’s such a terrifying twisted mindset! So Kyle and Tim…here’s the BIGGEST question of the last 4,000 years, if evil can’t exist in heaven then how can Yahweh exist there? If Yahweh is real, he is the most EVIL entity of the whole universe since the beginning of time, therefore he CAN’T be in heaven MORE SO than Satan because even Satan DIDN’T commit all the EVIL atrocities that Yahweh did! I guess I just answered my own question. I highly recommend reading the Enuma Elish for anyone who hasn’t read it…it’s another plagiarized story of the flood PRIOR to the Noah’s flood story. EXCELLENT VIDEO! Kyle is such an inspiration and so insightful…everything he said was so comforting…We use to say “Brother’s and sister’s in Christ” but I can’t say that to either one of you…so Thank you so much my brother’s in FREEDOM! I really enjoyed this whole presentation.

[@anonymousjohnson976]

Joyce: Same here. One would think that if a god was so-called "loving" that a hell would not even exist. Being forever dead is okay with me, and I look forward to it, as I will just rest in peace. I have at least 1000 questions for the religious, but they never have any answers; they just deflect, tap dance, and skirt around the issues. My religious background was the same and my upbringing was totally dysfunctional, which led to suicide attempts as well. However, finally, I obtained the critical thinking skills which helped me greatly in changing my outlook on life and my beliefs, which has given me the much-needed peace.

[@joycesky5041]

@@anonymousjohnson976 Yes I’ve been through the same thing…that stuff is such evil crap!

[@scottlewis2883]

Joyce, I can relate to so much you said in my religious upbringing. I describe some in my post elsewhere in this thread. I remember the frustrations of needing to get Re-saved over and over. The adults and pastors wielded hell and doubt over us regularly and one hardly ever felt saved for very long. Even as a young teen, I threw up my hands and said “this is impossible”. I’m never gonna make it at this rate. I would have left the church were it not for some charismatic youth pastors that made it fun to stay in the fold. But the manipulation and dictatorship was continual, and I was always just outside the lines. The most influential youth pastor was later convicted of molesting one of the boys in the youth group and went to jail. Now I began to understand why other involved kids would suddenly disappear and stop coming. Probably victims too 🤷🏼‍♂️. That particular molester later in life, contracted AIDS and died fairly quickly after diagnosis. I felt sympathy for his ex wife and 2 daughters. 😬

[@joycesky5041]

@@tomceman4451 My life is 100% happier and much better…I’m glad I’m out.

[@leonardjackson842]

His story is very similar to mine except I was never a minister or a pastor. I too was raised in the black pentecostal holiness church so I know exactly what he's talking about being in church 4 or five days a week for at least 4 hours each visit. 😂🤣 I'm so glad I gave all that up.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Hi, Leonard, thanks for sharing that! I'd love to interview you, if you're up for it. facebook.com/timandjuliemills/ or email: [e-mail]

[@Fourwindsofsuccess]

Yes I never realized that’s ‘Pentecostalism’ I have black american relatives who been apart of that type of group for decades lolz. They sit in church Monday- Thursday evenings from 7pm-12am then on Sundays it’s from 9:00am- 12:00pm. These people never question this stuff? Then they have revival? Lmao basically more indoctrination for current members then gain new followers. I am glad I wasn’t the only one raised around this influence but I never was a Christian to begin with it I have attended service as a young kid in the 2000s.

[@johnendalk6537]

Same. Fridays to Sundays, I was at church for like 8 hrs each day. I ended up being a youth pastor.

[@paulthew2]

I've been an atheist all my life, and would never have thought that I would look forward to a video about religion! That is much to do with you Tim, your guests, and their very interesting life stories. It shows the power of indoctrination.

[@sidstovell2177]

In agreement about looking forward to these videos, as an atheist of more than 8 decades. Think it must be a love of case histories. Best wishes to you, and all.

[@elainebraindrain3174]

The cult i was in taught being saved was a future event. JW CULT.😢

[@MrsBridgette2012]

I had a NDE and it was so wonderful. There was no judgement, no worries about earthly life. I was there with my best friend. I say it was my guardian angel because that’s what I was taught as a child. That we all have a guardian angel. Anyway, I can’t wait to go back to that state of being.

[@nauticdixons]

What is NDE please?

[@MrsBridgette2012]

@@nauticdixons it stands for “Near Death Experience” or “Not Dead Exactly”.

[@tealx8462]

There’s proof! I remember waking up on a early school morning! I was 13 years old and terrified, I felt really bad about myself and thought I had truly sinned! I had a wet dream! Very natural and it happens wether young men like it or not!!!! Completely natural and nothing to be ashamed of!!!!!

[@coreybarnett7785]

I’m a full time Christian, Minister, Sunday School Teacher, and President of our Evangelistic Ministry. As I am listening to this, I am in disbelief right now. But I am listening to your journey as I try to understand everything I am confronted with right now.

[@esobed1]

After I left the faith, I was asked why by so many believers. The simple answer is that belief in any religion, Christianity in this case, does not match up with a logical and methodological view of existence. So then comes the common responses of the beliver... "Lean not to your own understanding" is a fallacy. Because one has to use understanding and volition to decide not to lean. Reprobate mind? Well the same stuff that goes on in "the world" goes on in the community that has the same "mind as Christ". Less reprobate, inhumane stuff happens in cultures with less religion and more science( look up quality of life index correlated with secular socities) Psychology and Sociology are far more accurate and effective tools than the "Holy Ghost". Documented by scientific methodology. Fact of the matter, religion... Christianity... is not the BEST predictive and developmental tool for personal and collective improvement.

[@nauticdixons]

Take your time. It was like that for so many of us. It's sickening 😢

[@dorothyhusen6718]

Hi Kyle. I can relate to how controlled you felt about your life choices. I just wanted to let you know that is how EVERY Christian woman feels. I believed my ONLY path in life was to become a wife and mother. That’s it. I never thought about what God wanted for my career. But I prayed every day for what career God wanted for my husband’s career. Christianity is radically patriarchal.

[@Fourwindsofsuccess]

The women are always the cause of issues listed in the Bible too. It always been there in the forefront of religion but women get brainwashed into this nonsense.

[@MrsBridgette2012]

Church people say, God doesn’t hate the person, he hates the sin. But they sure act hateful towards someone that’s different.

[@Fourwindsofsuccess]

They act extremely misanthropic because when you look in for interpretations of the full Bible in modern vocabulary, it reveals disgusting things. They absorbed that hateful misanthropic personality from that book then what their ‘demigods’ aka pastors aka cult leaders teach them. It’s the arrogance for me that they assume everything & everyone is not living right, deserves condemnation to hell, and needs to be ‘saved’.

[@SUNROSE7878]

Thank you for saying this. If you go into a new church, either on your own or by invitation, the congregation looks at you strangely. They're not warm, welcoming, or even nice until they figure out what they can use you for, what they can get from you, what your tithes and offerings are etc You are judged from the moment you step in the door. You haven't met evil and mean people until you've met church people.

[@scottlewis2883]

Kyle Butler…. And Tim…, great interview show. Kyle really presents his story in a clear, truthful and friendly way. Thank you! I come from a background almost EXACTLY like Kyle. Mine was also in a large Pentecostal denomination, but mostly white church. But I understood everything he said because I too have lived it. The age of accountability. Constant fear of being “left behind”. Constantly being manipulated by those seemingly mature leaders. So much was said to control and manipulate me. Me, age 16, and 6 other young men were told by a visiting youth evangelist that we were “called” to pastoral ministry. 😳. Suddenly, all my future career plans were upended. I had to follow the call, or I’d never be happy or fulfilled. I went to Christian college, got my BA degree, and worked in a couple churches as a youth pastor, thinking this was the normal progression to becoming a senior pastor. However, I knew within a short time I was NOT on the right career path. After a few years, huge disappointments, the reality of church politics and nepotism, I pulled the plug and pursued a different career. Turned out great. But I got so much resistance and non acceptance from my own large extended family. I was Jonah. The prodigal son. They used to ask me…. Don’t you miss being in ministry? My answer…. Not at all! I finally had peace, financial stability, benefits and a good rewarding career. So much more I could tell. This all happened 35 years ago. I’m now a younger retired person with a much healthier perspective. Sorry this got so long 🤷🏼‍♂️ It would be awesome to have coffee with you Kyle and just chat about your history, and how you came to this point in life. I plan to Re listen to this interview because I don’t want to miss a thing. I am still on my deconstruction journey, but I’ve come a long ways, and left a lot of poison behind. Thanks! 🎃 Scott

[@logicsetsyoufree9052]

I have to leave another comment. I’ve listened to this twice. This was one of the best interviews I’ve heard on here Tim, you have alot of great interviews, but I enjoyed this one.I’m going to listen to it again with my Father, I’ve gotten him to deconvert this past year and this is a perfect video to show how destructive this cult really is to peoples lives. Absolutely awesome job Tim, you are an amazing interviewer.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thank you for those kind comments!!

[@swim610]

You can tell this guest was a good preacher. All that skill and love hopefully can continue serving humanity.

[@enaroos4608]

Hearing of Kyle's transformation from being "judgemental" to now treating people with dignity and humanity is heartwarming to hear. I follow Kyle and I know just the way he talks, he's full of love, as we all should. Thank you both for this wonderful interview.

[@BandiGetOffTheRoof]

One of the very best interviews I've heard! I watched a video the other day on Ephesians, and it talked about how to know the spirit is in you... I honesty can say I have the "good things" the spirit is supposed to give you, yet I don't know Jesus...and I tried my best to know him for a long time! Likewise, I know of some people who claim to be Christian who don't exhibit those "good things" of the spirit...

[@anonymousjohnson976]

BandB1111111: Christians cannot even explain intelligently what a "spirit" is or even explain the trinity or a so-called soul.

[@jennywood8671]

I’ve grown to admire Kyle very much since getting to know him over the past few months. I can relate son much to his story. (Singing songs for over an hour (or even 1 “anointed” song! Lol) was common in the church I grew up in). This was a wonder to video snd I appreciate the time you spend Ruth your guests. People who are escaping religion need to hear more “Kyle’s” to help them not feel so alone, to live more in a positive light and to love themselves and others better. So inspiring….

[@JeantheSecond-ip7qm]

I really appreciate my old church. I’m an atheist, but, aside from all the made up myth and legends, they taught me well. The church leaders preached about kindness, helping others, and not hurting people, and they weren’t about fire and brimstone. They were Methodist, but on the very liberal end. As far as I understood, I would go to heaven as long as I believed and didn’t do anything truly horrendous, like murder, without sincere remorse. It still didn’t feel right, because I just didn’t see any reason to believe the mythology. It felt made up to me. But the experience was positive overall and I believe they shaped me as a person in a good way because they put so much weight on genuinely caring about everyone. I didn’t feel any happier or any less happy after deconverting. I seem to be in the minority, though. So many people have been harmed by religion. So many people have been turned against their neighbors by religious leaders.

[@jaypeebee77]

this is a spot on interview. I wandered in the charismatic stream for about ten years. Before that, I was raised conservative Mennonite... after I was adopted at age ten. So, thanks heaps for this wonderful interview.

[@sidstovell2177]

What an experience! Best to you.

[@bjamal336]

My brother Kyle! Looking forward to watching this

[@sidstovell2177]

Thank you, Kyle and Tim, for this fascinating interview. I live in a country, now, where the church is a boot on the neck of the people. It's the Catholic church, but also, over the last decades, it's ALL divisions of protestantism, especially the Evangelicals. However, non-belief is growing. State, non-religious education plus the internet has helped.

[@devin5312]

Becoming an atheist was the best decision of my life. 💪

[@jeannebrewer3049]

As I listened to Kyle speak about how he was so concerned about serving a god that required so much of him I felt saddened that he experienced this in his life. I have never known a god like this, although many of my friends have interpreted their god like this.

[@1948DavidB]

Growing up, I was ALWAYS ashamed of the antics associated with church services. I never wax able to imagine that ANYBODY I knew in school would EVER want to "convert" to THIS!

[@satie321]

Amazing Interview. Love the topics covered. Kyle Butler is so articulate and generally a nice person.

[@Alleycat938]

My church is Reformed. It’s basically Calvinist. If im really honest, im scared ALL THE TIME of not being chosen (elected) by God. It scares me that there’s nothing I can do to make myself chosen. That decision was made before time began. But I love Him and believe His word. But if I wasn’t picked, then why pray or do anything. But what if I AM chosen? So I march on like this, terrified of eternal torment that I can’t avoid if I wasn’t elected. I’m 52. I can’t believe there are other people who are going through this. I honestly thought it was only me until this video came up on my KZbin feed and I started reading the comments.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thank you for sharing that. I and others have definitely struggled with those thoughts. The good thing is that those questions are ultimately irrelevant, as Christianity is nothing more than mythology. Yahweh didn't choose or fail to choose you; he's not real.

[@Alleycat938]

@@HarmonicAtheist thanks for the response. I’m going to watch more of your videos. There’s a lot of proof that the Bible is true. I’m going to listen to more of your videos now.

[@noracola5285]

In practical terms, "my fate has already been decided for me and there's nothing I can do to change it" is identical to "there's no such thing as fate and I'm free to do as I choose". The outcome would be the same, whether you were "elected" or not.

[@edwinf4524]

So good to see that more and more people get free from religion and use their own thinking. I had the same experience but it took too long to wake up. But what comes after religion? I think people need a church for agnostics and atheists because people need each other. What do u think? L❤ from Germany

[@MrsBridgette2012]

There’s problem with groups of people getting together regularly. Eventually there will be issues.

[@Fourwindsofsuccess]

No I think agnostics & atheists need to continue live their lives individually but also do their parts in the world by treating people well and growing as human beings , taking care of each other, etc. No need to develop congregations or gatherings to risk their lives because there’s hateful religious people who may try to harm them imo. We don’t need a group or identification.

[@noracola5285]

Bowling.

[@sekkhiaakare7701]

A great discussion.

[@mauricehalfhide3982]

Honest and powerful interview.

[@erichodge567]

What a great show. This is what a KZbin is for.

[@yam7660]

I love listening to Kyle Butler, this is the 5th time watching

[@MissOne]

there's a lot to unpack

[@muveemanone2067]

Good to see more of our people finally waking up to the truth 🤘🏼

[@DaranteLaMar]

Right!

[@AgcidentallyAgnostic]

2:33:31 “They’ll know we’re atheists by our love.” ❤️❤️❤️🤣

[@joycesky5041]

There's no love like Christian hate.

[@kevinjanghj]

​@@joycesky5041what about Muslim hate? I don't want to risk it at all compared to Christian hate.

[@Matira269]

@@kevinjanghj😅😅😅

[@heatherclark8668]

I was judged because I was a single woman living in a flat on my own. I didn't have a "head!" I didn't have a man to tell me what to do. How on earth did I cope? A married couple asked me if I wanted to live with them. They checked with the elders of the church to get their approval. They were lovely people but I am not a living with other people sort of person and, if I were to live with someone, I would live with another single woman. But, hang on, that wouldn't be any good either. We still wouldn't have a 'head.' Maybe we could get a cat, a male cat! Yes, a tomcat could be the head of our household. Yes, that makes perfect sense. A cat would gladly take on that role!

[@funshinebear4822]

I love it! 😂

[@teddyjam8134]

I remember years ago talking to this young lady and telling her to pray when she had anxiety attacks and her responding saying "I have and it didn't work, so I don't believe in that crap any longer. Years later I started having trouble with intense anxiety and depression and would pray about it. It didn't work. So, after years my belief in religion and God started to diminish. I'm not an atheist, but I definitely no longer believe in the bible or religion. It's a shame how from a child I was lied to and told if you have any troubles in life this GOD would always be there for you to watch over you. It's just sad.

[@_S0me__0ne]

Coming out of religion I was reminded of a poignant quote from a favorite series of mine, Elfquest: "...and the lie which is the truth shall bring more pain than the truth which is a lie..." In so far as the pain being anger at those promoting religion and at ourselves for not only not seeing through it, but allowing ourselves to stay in it for so long. And, for those that ripped the band-aid off quickly, the pain of depression and feeling directionless.

[@nauticdixons]

It's so painful 😢

[@annettejulien6227]

One of your best videos. Thank you.

[@logicsetsyoufree9052]

Looking good Tim, Thank you for another Video 🫡

[@belindabullock4060]

When I was a young child, probably about 9 years old, I was “saved” by repeating words told to me by a church lady. Afterwards she asked if I felt any different. I should have lied. If I could go back, I would lie. But…. I said no. That one word honest response set me up for so much hurt. From then on I was introduced as “lost.” The church people would talk badly about me with me right there. This set up a whole series of unfortunate events. All I had to do was lie, but I just couldn’t.

[@dontbelongherefromanother]

Church is a source of entertainment for most who attend service. It's like going to a concert or going to listen to the pastor's speeches

[@rlightbourneify]

Great conversation!

[@rolandwatts3218]

What another great interview. Kyle is brilliant in so many ways. Thanks again Tim. I think all your guests have been brilliant, but I also loved Kyle's sense of humour and his gentle, respectful humanist values.

[@exvangelicarol5336]

what a great pastor u were, Kyle 💖 I know plenty of good hearted pastors like you just trying to help people... u have beautiful heart!

[@workatthefab]

Kyle seems honest and very insightful- his view on religious indoctrination and the harm it does is totally genius .. great illustration of how honest reasoning and rational thinking supersedes the supernatural worldview!!!!

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Yes! Kyle is amazing and his insights were super helpful. --Tim

[@RealityMatters343]

"I started to humanize the stories." YES. When your heart and your mind wake up and realize there is NO excuse for the inhuman barbaric behavior described in the Bible, let alone attributing it to "an all-knowing all-loving father," let alone being required to "worship" it. It's no wonder humanity is so messed up with this level of gaslighting imposed on everyone from birth and that some of the nastiest people on earth are the ones most feverishly and fearfully committed to it.

[@scofah]

Hi Tim and Kyle. Thank you both for sharing your conversation and stories. I learned a lot and appreciate your openness and kindness. Looking forward to hearing more from both of you. 🌠😺🤸🏾‍♂️

[@laurief.2910]

Awesome interview!

[@bensweiss]

Kyle is a great interviewee. I'm currently watching this.

[@elliottpaine9259]

When you consider that there is no lake of fire stuff in the old testament, and that the new testament wasn't translated into english for quite some time after its own inception: god waited a seriously looooooong time to let mankind know that there is a lake of fire. Not something i would do if i was planning on sending so many people there.

[@a.b.2405]

It’s just an allegory for the second death. The hell doctrine was created by the Catholic Church to force people into believing. Either believe or die was their motto…

[@Larry30102]

Super great vid. Ranks up there with one of your best Tim. Thank you Kyle for sharing your story. The world needs more people like you.

[@jstar3387]

This is the best interview.

[@therhapsodist976]

I didn't realize that this happened, but I'm so glad that it did!

[@Fourwindsofsuccess]

@ 29:27 - 29:41 this is truth Tim. My maternal grandmother & grandfather are the same way. They have been ‘saved’ since 1974 which is 49 years but when they’re not in church, praying, reading their bibles, blasting gospel, etc. they are the most mean spirited, self centered, narcissists, and they engage in messy gossip about their own relatives. Also they’re family is divided to where the way caused it and it has huge favoritism among everyone. They tell lies or love to engage about really horrible things such as xenophobia, homophobia, racism, etc. but will turn around to ‘praise God’.

[@richman8082]

Christianity is just illogical. If faith alone is the way for salvation, you don't need to do anything. You don't even have to repent or to be a better person. Someone else already payed for your sins. That's one reason I rejected Christianity

[@Carol-br3bd]

Love the whole conversation between the two of you for a little more enlightenment...we do need each other thanks again

[@heatherclark8668]

I hated it when the minister would preach on a particular topic and then ask people in the congregation to raise their hands if they were committed to doing what he had suggested. A few hands would go up then a few more and eventually everyone raised their hands just so that they weren't the only one who was sitting there looking like a fool. In order to fit in, everyone had to pretend.

[@TBlack-dz5bo]

This was such a great interview, thank you both❤

[@Melody.Joy.23]

Great interview. Very encouraging. Thank you for what you do Tim

[@ffigwit]

Such an interesting interview. Thanks!

[@user-st7jw3bo3b]

Thank you for sharing.

[@yam7660]

You don't or can't get out until you're completely drained destroyed left with nothing

[@johnjohnson1657]

Great interview today bud. Kudos.

[@Clearsignalwellness]

Loved this interview! Would love to see you interview Derrick Day, Matthew Distefano, and/or Aaron Tomlinson. ❤

[@MissOne]

thank you for sharing. i subscribed 🎉

[@YY4Me133]

There's not one word in the flood myth about Noah warning anyone.

[@Fourwindsofsuccess]

Yes. The Bible says nothing about Noah warning anybody about the flood mythology.

[@joyiasells4810]

This was a really good

[@demills313]

EXCELLENT interview! Thank you both! One of the very best I've seen. 👍 P.S.: I shared the link with 3 atheist groups and have received over 100 likes! 😊

[@juba9575]

What a fantastic interview!

[@StayChill-yk7ou]

Amazing interview/conversation

[@Ratva666]

You see, I was not ashamed to tell my friends that I believe in Christ. I became ashamed when I realized that Christ was ashamed to believe in me.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

How can mythology be ashamed of you? It's just stories a bunch of people made up a long time ago.

[@dlcoblen]

Great interview! Welcome to true freedom. Kyle if you ever read this will you state what your childhood dreams were? Perhaps I missed this in the interview but it would be great for the audience to know what you sacrificed to follow a fictional character. Thank you for this great interview.

[@skwilson34]

Great conversation 🙂

[@exvangelicarol5336]

god's immanence is a total mindf🤬k... word of faith seems destined to fail.... and we are taught to blame ourselves for not manifesting gods perfect will🙄. another great conversation!!🥰

[@fazbell]

Not unusual at all. Many burdens are lifted when religion is moved out of the way.

[@gbtusa1325]

One more great edition. Hope you'll interview to an ex-muslim some day.

[@sbnwnc]

Thanks!

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thank you so very much!!

[@Canthavemybones]

58:30 that’s a great analogy.

[@brooklynloutheskeptic]

That was great ! Subscribed

[@vstrbotten]

I appreciate your ad-free videos. I liked the discussion in this one about being able to touch one’s self. I searched the Bible for when Jesus touched himself and that is when I found that the Bible no doubt was erased. The 2 verses hardly are enough to justify why a naked young man fell out of Jesus when he was arrested. Mark 14:51,52. KJV. Then 54, Peter is warming himself by a fire. So on such a cool night how is an almost naked young man keeping warm? But it appears like the writer of Mark is the young man, but he no doubt told the whole story. What is the sense of only saying these two verses. Not saying everything is a way to distort the truth. I dumped the fundamental beliefs that Jesus wasn’t gay and I threw the whole Bible in the garbage. If you find one mistake you can’t trust it anymore.

[@albertapressley5871]

This was SO good!!!!

[@semigeniusreally8988]

Two fantastic benefits I obtained by becoming an Atheist: 1. Accepting that there is no afterlife, that this is the only one we know of and that life itself is short and unpredictable forced me to accept each day I am alive as the most important day of my life (because it could be my last) and I have a duty to myself to make the best of it. So when you string these types of days into week, months and years, you wind up living a fulfilling, happy and complete life. 2. Rejecting a moral code created in the Iron Age required me to make all my moral life and interpersonal decisions based on my personal character and self-respect and thus to accept full responsibility for my mistakes and to enjoy my successes as having been MINE AND MINE ALONE...and I am perfectly willing to accept that. Together, this has been nothing less than a life-altering intellectual and emotional detoxification process and the freedom and pride I now have in the life I now live and the person i have become is more rewarding and profound than any similar feelings I could have ever received in any religion.

[@MrsBridgette2012]

You might be interested in the near death experience research foundation. I was in a car wreck and I was dead till EMS brought me back. I was in a beautiful place with someone, we were laughing and enjoying being together. No judgement or fear, it really was like being home where I belonged. I don’t believe in organized religion but I believe that there is something after we stop breathing and our heart stops. I can’t wait till it’s time to go back and stay. Or at least till I decide to return on my own. I do believe in reincarnation. Anyway I thought I would share my experience.

[@semigeniusreally8988]

@@MrsBridgette2012 I am in no way denigrating your experience nor your belief that "there is something after we stop breathing..." The research shows that death is a prolonged experience rather than instantaneous and when one's heart stops providing oxygenated blood to the brain, brain cells start to die. In the course of that slo-mo cerebral death, it is not unusual for visions to appear, hallucinations and images drawn from one's past or upbringing or course of indoctrination such as is found in religious dogma. Interesting that, in the course of near-death experiences of Christians and Catholics, nobody claims to see Allah or Vishnu or Buddah. And, in that context, nobody in those other religions claim to see Jesus. As far as my atheism and intellect will take me, I reject the concept of some supernatural or superworldly life after death and any concept of reincarnation as being wholly without any reasonably persuasive evidential support. The bottom line is that we are simply an advanced specie of primates, animals in our own species and life form and have no unlimited source of energy nor other means of afterlife survival which differentiates us from all other animal species. And to think that there may be such an afterlife or reincarnation requires nothing more than faith, which is a belief held in the absence of evidence or, in other words, illogical or magical thinking. And, accordingly, such faith can only be found in some form of religious orientation - formal or otherwise - so your claim not to believe in ORGANIZED religion does not excuse you from having religious concepts as the foundation of your beliefs. Thankfully, I have abandoned all fatih-based concepts, I reject prayer to some super daddy in the sky and unreasonable expectations. Occasionally I traffic in hope in something or other which allows me to avoid disappointment when my desires are not realized, but at base I am neither an optimist nor a pessimist but a stone cold realist who deals with things and life as they present themselves, not as I would pray or like or expect them to be.

[@MrsBridgette2012]

I understand where you’re coming from. I have certainly heard it before. Well it’s nice to know that when we’re in a life threatening situation, something takes over so we don’t suffer. When my body was being tossed around in the vehicle during the wreck, I felt no pain. It was as if I was wrapped in bubble wrap. And this being which I must have imagined, kept me company. I remember laughing so much. Like I said, I can’t wait for the next time. I enjoyed your correspondence.

[@semigeniusreally8988]

@@MrsBridgette2012 And I enjoyed yours. I have been in at least 7 situations in my life (that I know of) in which I was either going to continue to live or be dead at the end and in which I had absolutely no control over the outcome. The most recent was heart surgery 7 years ago with a 50% chance of not getting off the table. Another was an airline accident and, because I raced cars, you can throw in a few high-speed crashes as well. What fascinated me the most was that each time I found myself entering into a state of total relaxation and acceptance of whatever the outcome, thinking that, if this were to be my last moments on Earth before death, I should simply sit back and try to enjoy the experience. Never prayed, never hoped, never expected to survive, just total acceptance. I consider myself both the luckiest and the happiest person I know and, when a friend of mine asked me my secret to being perpectually happy, I said, "Every morning of every day of my 77 years I get out of bed, walk into my bathroom and look in the mirror. And if I see myself looking back at me, I am happy for until tomorrow. I know full well that someday I will look in that mirror and I will not see myself looking back, and that will be the day that I will be unhappy." I know it sounds trite, but that feeling works for me. I am forever grateful that I was given the chance to live and I will have no regrets when that life is over.

[@myintellect2577]

The guest's laugh is the best 😂

[@giveme24hrs72]

Am I the only married Christian woman wondering y no lady has locked this guy down? I also think they wanted him to be a minister because he's an attractive looking fella (with great character). Just me?

[@tomlaflamme2118]

I just some up my life up to 50 I called it 50 Years a Slave

[@nauticdixons]

45 for me 😢

[@saraneufeld4582]

I really enjoy your videos! one thing to think about, "the patriarchy/misogyny" is not always the reason that men go into leadership roles and women don't. Not saying that misogynistic ideas are not part of the bible, they certainly are, but there are many reasons why we might not find as many women in leadership roles than man. Maybe that's not the only thing you mean when you ask that question; just asking about the patriarchy is very vague, so maybe be more specific with that question.

[@tealx8462]

What’s the purpose, when God overrules your good will!!!

[@stevecrozet306]

well done. I doubt that was easy

[@kv4n]

When I think about “Lordship Salvation” I think Paul Washer.

[@dpman7955]

As an atheist, what guides your morality? What is the standard for good or bad? Apart from God, how can good and evil exist? I still believe in Jesus, but I understand that it is hard to understand the ways of God. Even the Bible says that his ways are foolishness to those who are perishing.

[@noracola5285]

We probably have the same morality as you have, minus the complication of a superfluous deity. Do you only do good because you think you were commanded to, or is it because you feel it's the right thing to do? Would you do bad things if your god said it was ok? A lot of people do! When I was a Christian I also thought atheists had no basis for their morals. But once I stopped believing, I actually grew to become a much better person than before because I didn't have the burden of false beliefs holding me back.

[@judyforsyth5782]

I too am much happier & content with life & death as an atheist 👏👏

[@human.imagination]

It’s not that the parent went shopping while leaving your kids with a vile pedo… it’s that he stayed in the house and watched it happen!!!

[@a.b.2405]

That is what makes me think… 😢

[@MissOne]

🤯

[@RyzeQueen]

Wow 🤯

[@larrys9879]

Words mean things, If the Bible is read carefully and literally it becomes apparent that the basic message, “salvation comes by grace through faith.” Heaven is a free gift from God……..but that isn’t what the Bible actually says. The Bible literally says Grace is conditional and must be earned by being obedient to all the laws, rules, commands, and traditions imposed on believers by the Bible and the Church. Thus believers live in constant fear that they won’t be “good enough” on the “Day of Judgement” to make it into heaven. If “Grace” was truly a “free gift” from God there wouldn’t be such a thing as a “Day of Judgement”.

[@xXFUEGIxX]

Your right. The Bible didn't say that grace is conditional. There are two gospels in the Bible - one is conditional the other is grace. Though only grace is the gospel for today

[@joereyes3913]

Becoming an atheist has been an experience of true freedom. To eliminate a long held tradition of mental and emotional destruction which is what religion is, from my life has opened so much knowledge about being a human being.

[@aggielonghorn]

I am a happy atheist.

[@tklyte]

I've been checking out Kyle's Tiktok. Losts of great content. On that note Kyle, how many Tee shirts do you own? 😆