Christopher Hitchens about Reparations for slavery ( 2001)

[@jn6305]

“If you can’t write well, you can’t think well. If you can’t think well, then other people will do your thinking for you.” -George Orwell

[@OLR1337]

a fascist writing the basis of much of our anti-fascist ideology

[@rodneykent8023]

You don't have to be highly educated to know bullshit when you see it. Some intellectuals are very obtuse in certain ways.

[@dr.2335]

Owen Ryan a socialist that fell away from his ideologies in later life. He wrote about totalitarianism and warned against it in any form. Read further, think better.

[@anab0lic]

very true, you can tell a lot about a person by the way they write, its a glimpse into the inner workings of their mind... and the strength or lack there of their mental faculties.

[@dr.2335]

anab0lic glimpse*, thereof of*, mental*.

[@simongarrettmusic]

"Anyone can have thoughts.. many people content themselves with feelings"

[@johnrobinson4445]

Hence the popularity of 'fake outrage' on the part of conservatives.

[@jjammmees]

I don't think so.

[@ghates]

Damn you Hitch, why did you have to die on us when we need you so much

[@ghates]

@@Melville1800s Haha! Blubbering..If you ever listened to Hitchens, which iam guessing you do because you commented on his video, you would know that that is exactly what he teaches " It's not what you think, it's how you think" so your point is garbage, especially the troll ass way you said it..

[@NFawc]

If that were the thinking, he'd probably have to stay alive for eternity ;)

[@NFawc]

@Marlon Quintana-Nieto The comment was a tribute to the man, not a literal statement. Sheesh...

[@ToraTiger26]

God took him

[@NFawc]

@@ToraTiger26 I think he'd wish you didn't say that - kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJqscmRubbahf80

[@leegoodwin9312]

I may not always agree with this legend, but i always listen

[@sebastianbernardo9900]

ok

[@bens5859]

@@sebastianbernardo9900 your comment reminds me of a quote about non-sequiturs...wish I could recall the source

[@scintillam_dei]

No legend. Merely a self-righteous snob.

[@staytuned9320]

Being a "Black American ", I've always had respect for Hitchens and his views but now he gets nothing but my respect. May he never be forgotten!

[@CFox.7]

@Factual Fox ..nothing else.. lol

[@josephgadaleto3211]

um.. your a racist....jews were enslaved in history many many times...where is your voice for thier reparations...oh wait... i forgot, you already stated your black and only care about blacks....

[@sunnydlite-t8b]

So because you agree with him, NOW, he is totally worthy of YOUR respect.

[@morleyhausbloodlines6791]

What the fuck does being a black American have to do with it

[@MarkyMark1221]

MorleyHaus Bloodlines being biased I’m black as well

[@dirtyhobo4252]

Christopher, we need you now more than ever.

[@Sinclair80]

Absolutely.

[@scan865]

Absolutely someone needs to put HRC in her place

[@DouglasGross6022]

@@scan865 Hitch certainly would have done that effectively and with style.

[@__Stitchy]

@@scan865 maybe 3 years ago, when she was still relevant... Why her? Why not your orange angerpresident?

[@scan865]

@@__Stitchy still a rotten bag, not my president lad, not american. I'm from a country with worse politicians than anywhere!

[@padzzz9377]

You can't force people to change their opinion, but you can educate yourself and present what you learned in a manner that is acceptable to anyone willing to listen without compromising your own principles and beliefs. I'm so grateful to have lived and learned from one of the best teachers this world had to offer.

[@SoLaRe60]

@padzzz9377, You meant principles, not principals. Principals are headmasters of schools.

[@scintillam_dei]

Wow. All it takes is a British snob accent to make you fancy the person exceedingly wise.

[@padzzz9377]

@@SoLaRe60 Thanks😅

[@padzzz9377]

@ You can always transcribe it and read it in whatever accent you wish. I’m sure the point remains the same tho😉

[@njits789]

"Beware of making the best the enemy of the good." Wonderful.

[@mja91352]

and not even close to being original with Hitchens

[@Chardonbois]

Originally a Napoleon quote I believe.

[@kstar1489]

@@mja91352duh? Hitched himself said that. And the comment didn’t claim that originated with him.

[@wyskass861]

@@mja91352 You bring up another example of bad faith argument. Thanks for arguing against something else you yourself set up in order to demean the first thing by association. Great irony and your lack thereof, you demonstrate oh clever one.

[@scintillam_dei]

Lame!

[@domsjuk]

I think dismissing the generalization of his argument about the Parthenon Marbles is not as easy and as he states. Is there really that stark of a difference between classic Greek artifacts and Pharaonic Egyptian ones (or something you might imagine in between)? There are no Pharaonic Egyptians around, but neither are there Ancient Hellenic polis-dwellers, so how can modern Christian Greeks claim that piece justly as their own, but modern Islamic Egyptians respectively can't? In both cases the artifact's meaning is symbolical, not religious anymore, their meaning far from their original context, and there is a difficult case for historic civilizational continuation and claims to heritage. Sure, details can make a crucial difference, but with regards to his argument in general terms they may not at all.

[@nikolalangov6084]

If someone stole your great grandfather's property which had been passed down the generations to more immediate family, you would have a just claim to demand it to be restituted. However if your great grandfather robbed someone else and seized their property and in return that property got taken away by a third party, then that claim becomes a bit weaker, although you are still allowed to make it. While modern day Greeks aren't Hellenistic Greeks, they are still largely their descendants due to the continuous process of shaping Greek society as we know it today. Historical evidence suggests the process was a lot less smooth in Egypt as Arabs were not just conquerors, but also forced the local population to assimilate into their society, through enforced Islamisation, rape, murder, etc. Admittedly, both modern day countries would still like their artifacts returned due to the economic benefits of increased tourism, but ultimately only the Greeks can play the culture card.

[@LancesArmorStriking]

In some sense I do understand, but you're dealing with a Ship of Theseus problem here, and everyone's answer varies bases in what they think constitutes a continual identity. In my case, I think both the Greeks and Egyptians should be returned their artifacts- not necessarily because they were taken from the exact same people as those who sculpted the original artworks, but because they were taken from Greeks and Egyptians (1800s) who are arguably the same today. Whether or not they can claim heritage, they can certainly claim lost revenue from tourism and sovereignty over whatever is dug up on their territory.

[@domsjuk]

​@@LancesArmorStriking & @Nikola Langov Mhmh, both valid points. Thanks. I wonder how this relates to the question of seized land, and "formal" reasons why and how people in general were dispossessed of somthing, e.g. during a war. I guess, giving some symbolical items back is easier and the sentimental value of having had them lying around in a museum for a few generations weighs much less than settlers' claims to land, which was conquered in an "unjustified" war (obviously a never-ending question in itself), and then been occupied for a similar time. Psychologically, people are loss averse, and in this case having lived on and "owned" land passed down from your grandparents is practically something else, and involves living individuals much more immediately than ownership of some items by a trust or a state or a museum (simply in psychological terms), but I think there is still a problem of distinguishing these things categorically, if we regard lost ownership, potential, revenue etc. in that way. Seems to be a slippery slope.

[@googleisskynet7312]

I think the analogy is rather devoid of logic in its entirety. Some artifact that some state (or state's agent) seized from another culture centuries ago could be returned as restitution. In this case, there would not be collectivized guilt. It would be understood that the entire English ethnic group, for example, was not collectively guilty of stealing the Parthenon Marbles and bringing them to London. They were taken by the English monarchy and brought there. The English may have benefited from it being there, but it was by no inherent collectivized fault of their own that it was there. Taking this example and comparing it to the enslavement of Black Africans by Europeans is filled with a multitude of logical inconsistencies. First, it was not the entire "white society", as Hitchens argued, that is responsible for the slave trade, slavery, racist laws, etc. 98% of European American families did not own slaves, and many among them were not supporters of slavery as an institution. It benefited the wealthy aristocracy almost exclusively. As an institution, it actually hurt poor European immigrants because there was less need for cheap labor as a result of it. Moreover, many European Americans are the descendants of immigrants who came to the U.S. after emancipation. Some came from countries that didn't even partake in colonization or the slave trade, such as Poland. Add on top of this that not all African Americans are descended from freed slaves. Some of their descendants even partook in slavery themselves against their own people in the New World. So at the end of the day, what reparations represents is the notion that ALL European Americans, regardless of their ancestry, are guilty. It is not just "sins of our father," it is sins of our neighbor, our kings, our Congress, of ANYONE who belonged to our racial group who partook in these historical actions. It is a form of transgenerational racialized guilt against those of European descent and transgenerational racialized victimization of those of African descent. That said, how could reparations ever be justly implemented? Just think of the logistics of such an endeavor and how fraught with incompetence and injustice it would be. If using tax dollars, then the African Americans would essentially just be paying themselves reparations. If a racial tax was assessed, it would be a gross and obvious violation of the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment, which, ironically, is the amendment which also naturalized freed slaves as American citizens. That is why reparations for slavery can never be just...or legal...in the United States. Hitchens would minimalize and mock my argument as "white whining," but really, there is just simply no logical or justifiable way to implement reparations based on race, even if the idea seems virtuous at face value.

[@domsjuk]

@@googleisskynet7312 Hey, this wasn't really what I was discussing, but I'll just accept your point here. However I have to say, I think you make a bit a categorical error. Reparations in the case of US-American slave descendant or in many other cases, are not intended (by any sane person) as a punishment because of some alleged inherited collective guilt. If this were so your point would be correct, but without rewatching this video, I would say generally such propositions including that of Hitchens' would frame them as a form of affirmative action, to make up for past discrimination, which has implications to this day. I don't want to discuss the intricacies of such policies at all, but I think at least in that regard your point is correct: Ethnic boundaries are blurry and the burden of past wrongs is difficult to quantify and account for not only on an individual level, but on a level of group or "racial identity". Should one attempt it nonetheless, and how? Different questions.

[@stephdegoede8316]

"... to the principles of free inquiry and open debate, that goes up to make a great university..." For his sake I am glad he is not still around to witness the disaster that we are experiencing now.

[@beavwarius]

I would love to see him eviscerate the people in power today. None could withstand his sharp wit and scathing remarks regarding their corruption.

[@jehjeh37111]

Not do sure about that. He absolutely hated the Clintons.

[@MajorVanBloodnok]

@@jehjeh37111 Which is precisely why he'd be so effective today. As odious as Trump clearly is, the bigger problem is in the Liberal establishment, over which the Clintons wield so much power. They're the ones directing the identity politics community towards utterly destroying discourse in the Left.

[@hughtubecube]

He himself was a political agitator in his years at Oxford. A Marxist no less. I suspect, though we will never know, and I humbly admit my conclusion is speculative (something I note incidentally that you haven’t done), you might have been disappointed with his views on the current campus activism. What irks me most about internet commentators is how righteously they claim to know the thoughts of the dead. We see this everywhere: F1 fans claim to know what Senna would have thought of the current grid, film fans claim to know what Walt Disney would have thought of his company’s current output, and here we see Hitchens fans simply assuming he would have agreed with them no matter what. It’s wrong-headed, and demonstrates the same unthinking fatuousness he is on record as having opposed through his life.

[@MajorVanBloodnok]

​@@hughtubecube You appear very much to assume most Hitchens fans are from the right - attacking so called 'Marxist' agitators on the left. For all Hitchens' contradictions over Iraq and The War Against Terror, he did so from the Trotskyist tradition of opposing the Stalinism of Saddam and a Marxist rejection of Theocratic Islamism. That this lead him into the cul-de-sac of supporting US imperialism is the great shame that he could never admit to. His Neocon admirers tried to own him but he stated many times he'd never been any kind of Conservative, he supported the US as the only successful revolution still standing. It's not enough to simply say Hitchens would have opposed identity politics activism due to his disgust at the Clintons or anything so fatuous. I strongly suspect he would have recognised the religious fervour in SJW puritanism leading to public denunciations without evidence and so on. The fetishization of identity is something Marx would have said allows the bourgeoise to divide and rule. It's built purely upon a perceived level of oppression in contrast to level of privilege - disabled/muslim/black/lesbian vs straight/white/male. Such a politics takes all the struggles and injustices people face, the energy that might be used to fight for a better world, and channels that all away from defeating class structures towards correcting 'privilege'. At this point it's worth noting that your class is abstract which means it can be challenged and dismantled, whereas privilege is inherent to you if you're a straight white male - whether you like it or not. And in this video, Hitchens identifies injustices that can be set right, especially as they continue to hold sway over the globe - while being very clear he opposed the fundamentalist mindset of repaying all debts throughout history - to empty the museums as it were. As he would have put it - it's crucial to understand how to think, not what to think. Hitchens would most likely have eviscerated the Orwellian nightmare of SJW activism and the Kafkaesque campaigns of MeToo/TimesUp. But equally if he were still around I'm sure the lightweights such as Jordan Peterson would not have come to prominence. Peterson wouldn't stand a chance against Hitchens, something he got a taste of while being effortlessly taken apart by Slavoj Zizek recently..

[@johndallara3257]

Hitchens always makes a reasoned case, how he is missed.

[@Davieboy-dovbear]

STFU Dumbass!

[@aneily]

Wow. Somebody triggered someone with words

[@sudo_nym]

@@aneily Davieboy did a White Whine...

[@johndallara3257]

@@Davieboy-dovbear Judging by your well thought out reply you are probably an english teacher from California, tenured?

[@Davieboy-dovbear]

@@johndallara3257 - all the pro-Hitchens arguments (and Hitchen's himself), *not that you have made any!* .. are subjective and lack essence. What Hitchens is doing to you all (has been doing), is solely for the purpose of selling his books. Hitchens is a conman with a rich vocabulary that can manipulate the minds of people like you (the uneducated and the misinformed). I believe too, Christianity is a fake religion but is the easiest to debunk and that's why Hitchens attacks Christianity all the time, it makes him look good! But trust me when I tell you this, there's hardly any difference between the du mb christians who give money to the Church, and you bu ms who give money to Hitchens (or show support for him) .. this is what I meant when I said _"S T F U,"_ I just wanted to save space & time and being that you all Hitchens fan[atic]s are so _”smart”_ (LOL), I was expecting you gonna understand.

[@crypticTV]

4:55 actually can repaid 5:47 better to be in USA 6:35 was there a crime and can any of it be made good 8:51 free labour 9:15 what is owed

[@eviltwin2322]

The Elgin marbles is a big red herring. The Greeks at the time had no interest in or respect for their history, and had destroyed countless artifacts to make lime, costing the world inestimably dearly in lost knowledge. The Elgin marbles were about to suffer the same fate. They weren't stolen, they were rescued, for all of us. Reparations for slavery is a difficult one for me. The suffering was terrible, but those who experienced it are long dead, as are those who perpetrated it, and the many Africans who enabled it because it wasn't just a white on black thing. And in fact black on white slavery continued until the turn of the 20th century when the barbary pirates were wiped out, so white families from the Mediterranean all the way up to the coast of Britain have slavery in their families right up to the edge of living memory and as such have perhaps an even more legitimate claim. However, I believe that nobody is responsible or should be held accountable for the crimes of their ancestors (even when an individuals ancestors can be proved to have been involved). Nor should a nation be held responsible for events where no participant or victim still lives. If we are to hold people responsible for historic events, how many generations must pass before it becomes silly? I live in the north of England - does that mean, therefore, that I can claim reparations from Denmark for the actions of the Vikings? Or Rome for the invasion of 43ad? We're not even meant to hold Germany responsible for the blitz, a mere 7 decades ago.

[@ishmaelforester9825]

They were rescued but they ought to go back. They belong in Athens, somewhere near the Acropolis and the Parthenon, not in a British museum. It is as simple as taking ancient heritage back where it came from and where it belongs The Parthenon is still there, at least partly, and there is a thread of continuity between the ancient and modern world in this case. It is not like ancient Hellas simply disappeared altogether and was miraculously recovered. Reparations for slavery is a far more controversial and impractical concept, obviously.

[@eviltwin2322]

+Ishmael Forester Yeah I've no argument there, and it would be a nice gesture for archaeologists and historians in both nations to come together with a mutually beneficial compromise, as I think you hinted at in another post. I just felt that the often-implied idea that our ancestors went around essentially raping antiquity is at best misleading and at worst an outright libel that needs challenging.

[@ishmaelforester9825]

Evil Twin I don't think they raped antiquity but they certainly raped the present in their day. I don't think anybody intelligent has any illusions about imperialism generally, not just the British, anymore.

[@Βουλγαροκτόνος1014-χ7π]

No interest in their history? Well, during the battles to take Athens, the Turks were melting down the lead rods holding up the pillars of the Parthenon for bullets. The Greeks were so worried about this they offered the Turks bullets if they would only stop melting down the material. Were there a lot of Greeks who weren't aware of their history? Or perhaps weren't even really Greeks? Sure. However, there were quite a few who did.

[@eviltwin2322]

No right thinking person believes in or endorses imperialism now, but nobody is responsible for the actions of their ancestors, and anyway you are conflating two seperate and unconnected issues here. Look, the fact is that there isn't a single museum in the world that does not contain items stolen from another culture. If you endorse giving the Elgin Marbles back, then the Met, for example, should give Britain back all the medieval armour that the people did not give them permission to take, or pretty much every museum should return their mummies to Egypt, a country that doesn't have the space or resources to look after them properly (artefacts in Cairo museum are shockingly badly restored and conserved). Or maybe middle eastern artefacts should be returned to Isis, the Taliban and Al Qaeda. We've all seen the respect they have for antiquities.

[@st3ppenwolf]

It escapes words to explain how this man is sorely missed.

[@jugheadsrule]

Let me help you. His advocacy of the Iraq war is not missed by millions of Iraqis. His serial plagiarism is not missed by numerous authors. There I did it for you!

[@OmniphonProductions]

@@jugheadsrule But is his advocacy of the Iraq war missed LESS than Saddam Hussein himself...or the 3/4 MILLION Iraqi's in whose death or "disappearance" Saddam was directly implicated? By the way, out of curiosity, are YOU an Iraqi, or simply an anti-war activist who presumes to speak on their behalf? As for serial plagiarism, I'd be more than happy to examine any evidence you'd care to present. Either way...See Also: Ad Hominem.

[@jugheadsrule]

@@OmniphonProductions It can't be ad hominem if it's true can it, you supercilious clown. Saddam was a lame duck by 2003. NFZs had wiped out most of his airforce and air defences so he wasn't a threat to anyone. In any case, the justification for the invasion was that he was connected with 9/11 and that he had WMD. Both provably false. And the result of that invasion? 1million plus dead, the birth of ISIS and the destabilisation of the whole region. As for his serial plagiarism, it's well documented, get off your arse and research it yourself. Here's a starter, and his most well known plagiarism, his book on Thomas Paine had copious amounts lifted from a book on Paine written by John Keene, who has personally acknowledged my publicizing Hitchens copying of his work.

[@OmniphonProductions]

@@jugheadsrule WOW! Defending an ad hominem with another ad hominem. Impressive. In RETROSPECT, you're right that Saddam was not a threat to anyone by 2003. However, his refusal to allow UN weapons inspectors to actually do their jobs...as well as no small amount of sabre rattling and his consistent violation of no fewer than 14 conditions of the Desert Storm Cease Fire Treaty...indicated otherwise AT THE TIME. For that matter, American, British, and French Intelligence agencies all concluded that he DID likely have WMD. I have no choice but to agree that this proved false, but we didn't know that BEFORE going in. Moreover, while Saddam had nothing to do with 9-11, that event began a Global War On Terror, and...considering the 3/4 million Iraqis in whose deaths Saddam was directly implicated (complete with mass graves discovered only AFTER the Iraq invasion), his military strikes on Iraqi Kurds in the north, and the billions of U.N. Oil For Food dollars that were diverted to...among other things...building palaces FOR Saddam, the man was (by any objective metric) a terrorist, AND the world is a better place without him. As for the total body count, if groups like Al Qaeda and the Taliban hadn't IMPORTED combatants INTO Iraq (from Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Iran...for starters), it would have been over far sooner with far fewer casualties. That said, the biggest failure of the U.S. in that respect is that nobody ANTICIPATED such importation of enemy combatants DESPITE the events of 9-1-1, and nobody ANTICIPATED the rise of ISIS (or any other terrorist group) to fill the power vacuum left by Saddam's removal. In that respect, you and I actually agree that it was tragically ill-planned, ill-conceived, and not _immediately_ necessary. HOWEVER, as mentioned earlier, we didn't know that BEFOREHAND. As for the plagiarism, thank you for actually providing somewhere to look. Far too many people online would leave it with the rude and unproductive, "Get off your arse and research it yourself." The person MAKING the claim is responsible for providing EVIDENCE. It's not the job of the person HEARING the claim to research whether its true, and in the ABSENCE of such provided evidence, the rational position is NOT to believe the claim. In this case, you have, at least, given me something. Actual links would be better, but anything is better than nothing. With that in mind, what did Keene specifically say about your efforts? ("...personally acknowledged," doesn't tell me much.) P.S. You still haven't answered whether you're Iraqi or not. Call me a racist, but your deep knowledge of Thomas Paine literature leads me to believe you're not.

[@poozer1986]

@@jugheadsrule while I agree with the Iraq pay of your comment (Hitchens himself regretted his backing) is love to see a citation for the second part of your comment

[@sebastianbernardo9900]

Hitchens avoids the real issues by never defining what he means by "reparations." Is it a one time check? improved access to college? scholarships?, or whatever. As he uses it, "reparations " is a vague, feel good word which means whatever you want it to mean.

[@harryh.hopper6005]

Well, he was clearly answering the debate question of 'should'. 'How' or 'in what form' comes next, once we establish the need.

[@brianwrynn3109]

​ @Hayden Jose Fair issue, but to me you cannot discuss what you "should" do if you haven't said what it is you should be doing?

[@mukorgalaxies7766]

@@brianwrynn3109 Can't have an honest discussion about what reparations might look like until the first step, agreeing that a good faith effort should be attempted, is taken. And the counter that if one doesn't already know what that effort should be, so therefore we shouldn't even try, is not a good faith argument. It's very often disingenuous - the person usually is just against the idea at all but won't say so.

[@Slayer8957]

@@mukorgalaxies7766 I guess reparations for those who dont wish to be here can be argued for. Restorative justice before any ADOS forfeit their citizenship and leave for a more accommodating country.

[@Octavian2]

@@mukorgalaxies7766 How is it not a good faith argument to be in the negative?

[@ermingtonplumbing442]

My earliest Ancestors in My home country of Australia were sent here against their will as Irish Convict slaves. Do I deserve Reparations or does the colour of my skin make me not eligible?

[@devinmichaelroberts9954]

liar.

[@ermingtonplumbing442]

@AridMy oldest ancestor was sent here for the charge of " uttering unholy oaths" meaning he was suspected of belonging to an organisation sworn to resist and oppose British rule in Ireland. (eg like the ribbon men) If membership could be proven death was the sentence. For Suspected resistors confiscation of property, Transportation, whipping and slavery was dished out by the English. He would have hated the British Empire as much as any Indigenous Australian ever has.

[@jacksynth271]

Arid Ned Kelly's father was sent half way round the world to break rocks in the scorching sun because he stole pigs to feed his family, so you think he deserved it because he was a criminal or is it because he was white?(hint: it's the latter)

[@moffettcoates6455]

Arid had nothing to do with race but vulnerability instead.

[@Weirwood256]

The Irish actually do deserve restitution from the British dude, because they KILLED a bunch of them

[@paulroos1015]

My Irish ancestors came to the u s in the 1840s. If, if. They had food stamps ,subsidised housing and interest free loans i would probably be very wealthy,

[@HeathWatts]

Probably not. Being on welfare is not as wonderful as evil nut cases such as Ronald Reagan would like us to believe.

[@HeathWatts]

@Mikkel The Red. Ah, but did the Irish have to go through slavery, then share cropping, then Jim Crow, all at gun point and threat of lynching, my racist little friend? I'm just kidding, I would never be your friend. I hope no one else is either, because you're a terrible person.

[@MarcoPolo-lb8up]

No, none of those things can make you smart, they are designed to just keep you alive.

[@3rduncle]

@Erik Mikkelsaar because, as white people, they would have been permitted to do so. To buy property wherever they could afford and participate in business. They were permitted to build an economic base. To be properly educated. They werent just "freed" in rags and told to pull up their bootstraps. But you already knew that. You just chose to ignore it.

[@candicefrost4561]

Your Irish ancestors could pass as non-Irish whites easier than black people could. They were not chattel slaves. Try again.

[@alkinboo]

If the English Navy protected the Atlantic Slave Trade shouldn't they also be liable to pay Reparations? Tell me instead about the great slave revolt and how they earned their freedom, OH wait that never happened. Instead, 350,000 whites gave their lives to win their freedom. That sounds like reparation enough.

[@ianman6]

You mean the constant slave revolts? They never happened?! Ever heard of Haiti?

[@wilgarris]

You can't say that, it goes against the liberal dogma and you will be hunted down and silenced for having an opposing opinion and thinking for yourself.

[@ianman6]

@@wilgarris Lol, it's funny that factually incorrect statements are "opposing opinions" fiercely rejected by some liberal boogie man.

[@michealwillis]

Those lives given were not to free the slaves, but to keep the Union intact. And I’m guessing you also don’t know or care to know, about all of the other injustices blacks were subjugated to after those lives were “given” and well up to today as well. Pick up a book and learn history before you shoot off at the mouth.

[@wilgarris]

I'm sure that you care little about the lives given to free slaves and would rather dwell on the evils of the whites but the fact remains that the freedom of the slaves was a direct result of the civil war and the men and women (mostly white) who died. I've studied my history perhaps you should as well before you shoot off your mouth.

[@dimbulb23]

The Devil is in the details. How do you calculate how much each victim class member was harmed in terms of dollars and how much each individual oppressor class member is culpable and how much he must pay.

[@jeffsim4191]

Moreover, which members are actually within the oppressor class and which were the victims. West Africans captured and sold the majority of the slaves that ended up in America. Gonna do Ancestry DNA to try and figure out if you came from one of the people that got captured or one of them that did the capturing? Or what if your mother's side was black slave trader, but your Dads side was a slave? what the hell you gonna do them? Or are we just going by how much melanin you've got and whites with ancestors who were surfs or another oppressed people that came to North America have gotta pay also? And on and on it goes.

[@dubsspilly5864]

@Dra O 2 weeks

[@TheSonwu39]

Duke Economics Professor William A Darity has some good starting points.

[@juanlambda27]

Did Hitch say the reparations have to actually be monetary? He does talk about the Federal Reserve and America's wealth but I don't believe he ever actually mentioned actual money. I think he is making a far more important point. One that still needs to be made and we need to be reminded of every time a Black person is killed unjustly by cops, every time a Black person is profiled by White civilians, every time a Black person is given a harsh punishment disproportionate to the crime they committed. Yes perhaps some money is in order but the question goes far deeper than mere money.

[@2Brian]

DNA analysis.

[@janderson2709]

Reparations are a terrible idea. Think of the level of scrutiny of people’s history required to properly distribute reparatory money properly. The records of history wouldn’t be adequate for the average joe. So, you’d have to have a blanket policy, such as all black Americans receive reparations. But then what of the blacks who’s recent ancestry does not involve slavery, what of the blacks descended from those that themselves sold slaves-what are they owed? What of mixed race Americans descended from slave trader heritage, what of blacks like Oprah Winfrey, who are a hundred thousand times more successful than the average white? Morally, there is a case to be made, but sadly there is no practical way that this could be implemented fairly.

[@janderson2709]

@Tom Voke Yes, I did. What makes you think that? Also, don't like your own comment--it's cringeworthy.

[@janderson2709]

@Tom Voke I left a comment regarding reparations on a video regarding reparations. I am saying that morally, as Hitchens argued, there is a good case to be made that descendants of slaves deserve reparations. However, there is no way to implement this fairly. That is my point. If I can't leave that comment on this video then I'm not sure where I could leave it. And regarding whether or not I'm 'obsessed' (after one instance, you may want to look that word's definition up) with your comment likes. It was merely a passing comment. It's amusing how when you post a comment it immediately has 1 like, yet none thereafter. You must have one very dedicated fan!

[@MrCocksuckme]

"Contenting yourself with feelings"

[@coreyc1685]

Even when I disagreed with him I couldn't help but be impressed by the strength and articulation of his arguments.

[@hausofone]

Seems like common sense what are you disagreeing with?

[@ischar23]

Corey C disagree??? How?????

[@Gotenks7Kid]

Ischar Holloway-are you guilty for the sins of the father, and is anyone alive in the US today that was ever actually a slave?

[@ischar23]

James Brewer that’s not the point!!!!!!!!!! There has been WRONG done to a people of the ABSOLUTE worst kind and continues today. No there fathers aren’t alive but they’re decedents who are DIRECTLY affected by the actions of MANY countries and should be made whole. I mean this isn’t even a hard one. Did you watch the video???!!!! “Was there a rape a theft a wrong done?, can and should it be made whole?” Simple!!!!!!!!! Wtf dude

[@jeffsim4191]

@@ischar23 Western society is built on the idea of the individual. As soon as you start punishing individuals based on what group you think they belong to every thing would collapse. Do you go to jail if your father steals a car? If you did, damn near everyone would be in prison. The whole innocent until proven guilty idea is out the window also. Plus, in this scenario, it is actually impossible even if you attempted to do it. I'm second generation here, my ancestors were surfs in Europe. Most slaves from West Africa were originally captured and sold by other African's. I'm white, no slaves owned by my family. Many Black people's ancestors were slave traders. Gonna try to figure out everyone's family history to see if they were the guilty or the victims?!? Or just say they are guilty or victims based on skin tone?

[@andrewmcdonald1812]

What this man would say about the world now

[@arthurrimbaud7287]

He’d still be saying that the Iraq war was a great idea.

[@user-vx1wq4nx5y]

Arthur Rimbaud 😭

[@SuperUnknown1967]

@@arthurrimbaud7287 pay attention dummy, he changed his mind on that. Quite a few clips of him saying so.

[@SgtAndrewM]

@@SuperUnknown1967 link?

[@scintillam_dei]

The increasingly atheistic world is increasingly shitty. What a coincidence! Haha!

[@petersonscottb]

For me to be for reparations for slavery, someone needs to answer the following questions. Why should I pay for the sins of my ancestors? If I should pay for the sins of my ancestors who were slave owners, why should I not receive credit for my ancestors who fought against slavery? Why should I pay for reparations to those black people who are better off than I am? What about people who are half white and half black such a Barack Obama and Mariah Carey? Should they pay reparations to themselves?

[@clash74jm]

@Omar Savory There are many factors to consider (petersonscottb brought up some of them), however, to consider the Civil Liberties Act of 1888 as a precedent is not correct. This Act gave reparations to SURVIVING Japanese individuals affected, not their descendants.

[@clash74jm]

@Omar Savory Nowhere did I mention statute of limitations. Also, to equate inheritance with reparations shows ignorance on your part. Due to the logistics involved with distributing wealth to those affected by slavery, it will never happen. The best thing would be to do something similar to what you mentioned, Georgetown. Handing out money to the affected masses will only serve to lower their socioeconomic status even further. Thus, the best action would be to provide financial support to higher education, or perhaps even a lower interest rate on business loans. Increasing the education level of the masses affected, will have the result of increasing their socioeconomic level in the long run. It's not that I disagree with helping those affected, but just handing out lump sums of money is illogical. But, and this is a very big "but", how do you propose determining who can receive the financial support?

[@clash74jm]

@Omar Savory Okay, but how would you suggest going about determining who gets what? If you decide to use DNA to exclude those that don't meet a "minimum threshold", you are going to open up Pandora's box, regarding unsolved crimes. So, again, what would you use to determine eligibility?

[@pappy374]

@Omar Savory I'd prefer that we work towards a nation that doesn't need reparations because there is no longer such a great inequality that they are needed.

[@pappy374]

@Omar Savory You have data that proves we shouldn't work towards a more equal society? I'll take a look at that, because if you think just giving some people some money is going to fix anything then you're nuts.

[@amvin234]

funny to see all of the exact bad faith arguments being played out here in the comments section against reparations that Hitchens warned about in this video...

[@atlehman69]

amcaff Like what? I’ve heard great arguments that he never mentioned. Hitchens attempted straw man here was beneath him.

[@RikkSpencer]

too be fair; he's made an argued against a position that no one was arguing. And it's very difficult to assign a value to reparat when neither population of white or black living today have either owned slaves or been enslaved. So, I don't think there is an argument for reparations in the Americas. And the same is true for Africa; how do you produce a quantity of value to be repatriated to Africa? If you cannot find that value, then when do you know that youve successfully repaid what us owed? The answer is that you can't.

[@amvin234]

@@atlehman69 Oh the irony in you using the phrase "straw man" here, because that's exactly what I'm referring to in people's arguments against reparations. Hitchens here is warning, essentially, against the straw man. He's warning against the straw man of the pro-reparation argument, wherein they twist the pro-reparationist's argument with non sequiturs and the classic "so what you're saying is...". 3:10 to approximately 4:40 in this video are the relevant time stamps. Here Hitchens is speaking of non sequiturs, with clear analogies to the reparation argument. And I see the same kinds on non sequiturs that he's referring to in the video in this comments section.

[@amvin234]

@@RikkSpencer this argument isn't over what the right "value" is to assign reparations, merely if they should be made in some form. Those forms could be made in many ways, monetary or otherwise. For example, affirmative action could be said to be a form of reparation. But to say that no one is arguing against reparations seems disingenuous. There are certainly many people in America today (maybe even a majority of people?) who would agree that there should be *no* reparation for slavery of any form. Hitchens is here merely arguing that there *should* be a non-zero reparation for slavery. What value should be assigned to such a reparation? Well, that's another detailed topic, but I don't think anyone on the pro-reparation side of this argument is advocating anything very extreme in the quantity of that value. And Hitchens here even seems to think that whatever value is assigned is likely to be inadequate, but at least better than nothing ("best is the enemy of the good").

[@danh2716]

@Klaa2 Please discredit the fact that my family moved here in the 1910s.... How much do I owe Americans that were never slaves for my sin of never being remotely connected to American slave owners...?

[@phatbackbeat6553]

Making people who never owned slaves give money to people who never were slaves will never happen.., nor should it.

[@vasecore7508]

I think the issue with most people is that my people were LIED to about reparations, and then brutally abused for the next 100 years afterward.

[@phatbackbeat6553]

ChristianDrums777 they were but we are a different nation now.

[@vasecore7508]

@@phatbackbeat6553 yeah but thise who had authority over us abused their responsibility. The repercussions of their choices that rippled through time warrant some kind of compensation.

[@phatbackbeat6553]

Reginald West we give Israel a lot of money to combat terrorism and keep the oil flowing to the USA 🇺🇸 That money is for no reparations .., it’s to fight Islam. 🤷‍♂️

[@phatbackbeat6553]

ChristianDrums777 the Nation has moved on from this “very dark period “ in our history .., so too must its people. Reparations, legally speaking, is unconstitutional. The Democrats know this, but they make these promises to try to buy votes.., just like free tuition or free healthcare. The 40 acres and a mule is not coming.., and it never was going to happen. It was a lie then and it is a lie now. Stop believing and depending on the Government. They do not care about individuals and freedom.., just power and votes ! 🤷‍♂️

[@sophomoremd]

It's weird I always hear so much about how great this guy was but I don't think I've fully agreed with a single argument he's ever made. Yet I enjoy watching him make them.

[@Mr._Moderate]

It's okay, because if you live in America it is to live in constant disagreement 🤷‍♂️

[@sophomoremd]

@@Mr._Moderate I disagree.

[@sebastianbernardo9900]

@@sophomoremd Ha!

[@patrickgrengs7594]

Hitch is very eloquent; however, he is mistaken on multiple counts. Those early colonial buildings were built, in large measure, by the early colonists and indentured servants. Indentured servitude is essentially a contract for passage via time-labor. Slavery existed in Africa hundreds of years prior to any white colonialism in West Africa and it was the locals that were party to gathering the human capital and making it available for sale to the owners of the slave ships. The debt has already been paid via combinatorial losses during the US Civil War. The only people that would make bank on the implementation of reparations consists of the bureaucrats that would see fit to manage the entire affair. It would certainly infuriate those individuals that are made to pay the bill and who never owned slaves nor are the decedents of slave owners. It would cast the recipients of whatever was left (after the bureaucrats took their cut) of the welfare payments into an even further state of dependency and self-loathing. Of course, this whole reparations thing will be eaten up whole hog by those self-immolating masochists that intoxicate in their white guilt. I will have no part in it.

[@rudipan1715]

The Civil War had nothing to do with slavery. It was merely an excuse.

[@patrickgrengs7594]

@@rudipan1715 Indeed, I have also read DiLorenzo and others and am familiar with The Lincoln Scholars. Nonetheless, once of the artifacts from the Civil War was the Emancipation Proclamation. Hitch's argument falls flat; a static bit of timeless marble bears to resemblance to a mortal individual human being. He is stretching beyond credulity and he had enough self-awareness to know it.

[@SH-th4wy]

As Hitchens is careful to point out right up front, watch out for those who redirect the argument. Slave labor existed in the US, regardless of which heap of bricks you want to attribute it to. White people profited monetarily from forced black labor. A monetary reparation could be made and should be made. There is no statute of limitations on a moral wrongdoing. The speaker before Hitchens was evidently a black man who did not want members of the African American public to accept such a payout so as to avoid resulting damage to the recipient's character and morals. I can see that argument. So why not use our national strength and wealth to send serious long term, nation-building aid to the West African regions that were most heavily affected by the atrocities? Our world would be a better place for doing it. You might consider the approach a penance as much as restitution, but that is fine and good. If we did it honestly, it could work. As a white guy, I can't say how much would be enough. But I think that at a certain point, we'd all see that the effort would be so rewarding that no hard ending would be necessary. The point is not how familiar Hitchens is with details about bricks or chunks of marble. The point is that a wrong is waiting to be righted. If you don't accept that, why are you even watching the video?

[@frontdeskstaff9359]

@@SH-th4wy You are WRONG. The vast majority of white people did NOT profit from slavery. The vast majority of white people did not own slaves or did not have any ties to slavery. The vast majority of slave owners were what would be considered today as the 1% and only the 1% of the south. The south was only part of the economy and country would have survived just fine without slavery. All those plantation owners would just have had to pay for labor. Not to mention all those white people today who's ancestors immigrated after slavery was abolished. All your monetary reparations would do is create a greater divide, more racism, and a further separation from equality, especially from all the other minorities that aren't receiving so- called special benefits. And yes, there is a statute of limitations on a moral wrong doing. NO civilized society would condemn the sons and daughters for crimes of the father and mother. Besides, if you are talking about restitution of historic crimes, I'll take you serious when you add the Mongols, The Egyptians, the Ottomans, the Turks, The Japanese, the Arabs to the list for their past crimes. And let's not forget the Aztecs for their brutal conquest of all the other native tribes when they created their empire.

[@frontdeskstaff9359]

@@SH-th4wy Oh and yeah, if it's so rewarding you are more than welcome to start giving up part of your paycheck, assuming you even work. You have the freedom to give any or all of your money to any african americans you wish

[@Savantjazzcollective]

What does Mr Hitchens actually believe should be done? I saw not a conclusion nor a resolution...

[@georgebyrne3825]

haha I know sometimes he thinks on so many levels at once u walk away with no idea what he's talking about

[@georgebyrne3825]

having said that I'd argue he was suggesting was taking a chunk of money from the treasury and distributing it (to African American people who were descendants of slaves)

[@OsidiustheEmphatic]

@@georgebyrne3825 Exactly that. It's a logical acknowledgement of the role slavery paid in paving the US.

[@Savantjazzcollective]

@@georgebyrne3825 i get that argument, but what about the 99% who never owned a slave? is taking their money away a righteous act? In my mind, compensation to long lost ancestors is too far, welcoming them fully into society allowing them to play by the same rules is justification enough... Allowing them to buy cheap government land might be a good step however...

[@georgebyrne3825]

@@Savantjazzcollective yea super complicated thing to roll out. I think it'd have to be hashed out within the back community.

[@richardschaefer4807]

Would the African tribes, like the Zulus, Watusi and others, who had slaves of their own and sold those they didn't want to keep to the slave traders, also pay reparations? North and South American Indians also made slaves of the captives they did not torture to death. Many tribes also practiced human sacrifice. Sometimes a hundred or more young virgins were killed during a 3 day celebration. FYI...Wars for booty, slaves, religion and territorial gain were also common the tribes in North, Central and South America. Perhaps someone could define the moral high-ground?

[@ericwright2763]

Propaganda Richard Schaefer, the winners of wars and choreographers of colonialism write false narratives for the conquered. That's typical when lands are stolen, so future generations and descendants remain passive and unaware of their true histories.

[@cchgn]

Richard Shaefer AND all over the World, since the beginning of mankind.

[@joeashbubemma]

@@ericwright2763 And "true" history is what exactly? "Conquest" and "stolen" is an exercise of semantic nonsense. All have a right to self defense and preservation. The inability to repel conquest is not a moral argument. The denial of self defense, through legislation is.

[@cchgn]

@@ericwright2763 REALLY? So you're saying that LONG before ANY white person stepped foot in their Continent, the Africans, North and South American Indians, Mongols, Persians, Romans, Egyptians, et al, were NOT taking each other and conquered others into slavery? Thousands of years before. YOU really need to research World history. Since the beginning of mankind, "to the victor goes the spoils" was common practice and us "white folks" aka Americans, didn't invent it, we ended it.

[@cchgn]

@@joeashbubemma Please tell me what culture, in history, refused to defend themselves through legislation? IMO, the conquered DID try to defend themselves, the conquerors were simply superior and that's true from massive armies and superior weapons and tactics, to small hordes of berserker Vikings, down to small Indian raid parties.

[@garywood97]

Simply giving people money is not how you solve problems. If there were reparations, I guarantee it'd do almost nothing and in a few years the reaction would be "You didn't give us enough".

[@cvn6555]

Years? Try the next day. The whinging would begin anew the very next day. Once it became reality that there is money to be had the process would never stop or slow.

[@cliffgaither]

*_@Gary Wood ::_* _Whatever the desire would be for "more" money, is supposition on your part._ _What is known, however, is the Imperial-Greed of Europeans AND Americans who Took The Hemisphere from the Natives, because Enough Is Never Enough for Rapacious "Conquistadors" !_

[@davidhall9273]

First subtract out welfare payments and the monetary worth of affirmative action and then cut by proportion down to the actual proportion the percent of slave ancestry and reduce by any percent of white ancestry for what is owed to any claimant. Then reduce the amount owed by any individual based on whether they were actual descendents of slave owners and this whole thing becomes meaningless drivel.

[@Drahthaar422]

Have to disagree with Hitch here. There's a reason it was called the slave trade and not the slave theft. It's not like the slave traders were hunting down Africans and snatching them up. It would be one thing if that was the case, but the way it happened is that African warlords and chieftains rounded up their subjects and sold them to slave traders for rum. The slave traders were buying slaves, yes, but the African chieftains were selling them. So let's not act like white Americans (many of whom have zero slaveowners in their ancestry) are entirely responsible for slavery in North America.

[@johnpliskin8759]

Wade Perkins what the fuck? so calling it "trade" makes it not a horrible thing? what the actual fuck?

[@domc2909]

No John, calling it a "trade" means somebody was doing the selling. Who do you think that was?

[@tuckwatsellers]

Oh dear. Blaming the victim.

[@chrisjensen9709]

Why don't the people who feel reparations are in order, set up a fund, let all those with guilt donate, and then mete-out the proceeds to those who feel they deserve it? This would leave-out those of us who had not a thing to do with slavery alone, and maybe we could finally shut-up the element that has haunted us.

[@chrisjensen9709]

No, those who have unwarranted "Guilt" donate. NO-ONE alive today had anything to do with North American Slavery.

[@stephenjoiner3738]

In the words of the wise man: " Only a fool makes derision of guilt."

[@maybepumpkins]

None of us had anything to do with the slavery of centuries past. But many of us have benefited from it nonetheless. And as the speaker points out at 8:25, some of the profits of slavery are now held by public institutions.

[@davidlindsay9564]

only 1 in 10 in south owned slaves. Most of them owned only one. Thats 5% in all of the US then. Of the people alive today only 5% can trace themselves back to pre 1860s America, most have come from immigrants that came after that. so 5% of 5% which means there is almost nobody here who owes anybody anything.

[@matthewbittenbender9191]

It sad to have lost such a clear, sober mind and courageous spirit when we need him he most. I could listen to him talk all day.

[@trojan4978]

Sober...lol

[@meanbeats]

I wouldnt say sober

[@poozer1986]

Definitely not sober

[@matthewbittenbender9191]

@@poozer1986 hitch was more sober when drunk than most right-wing religious types.

[@NoInfoNecessary]

Sober? The guy was an alcoholic relapsed Marxist.

[@fezig83]

He makes the argument that "more people will see" the Babylonian antiquities in the (wherever the F they are) as if how many people see them is the most important thing. He is arguing (at 4:15 ish) against his own position suggesting that since they (the Babylonians) and their culture are dead that the most important thing for the artifacts of that civilization is that they be used to make sure that the culture they came form is not forgotten. He reiterates this need to remember later and rightly so since to remember the atrocities of slavery is to guard against their repetition. SO he is arguing that remembrance and future avoidance is superior to repayment. He admits in his own argument for the reparations a very simple fact. A debt owed to the dead cannot be paid but we still honor them when we refuse to forget.

[@fezmunkee13]

Thank you for pointing this out. Clearly there are more values at play here than non-interference. I question how applicable this analogy even is. It's one thing to put the statues back exactly where they were taken. It's another thing to try to figure out where the statue would be today (or worse yet, where the various pieces would be) if there had been no outside interference, and then attempt to place the various pieces of the statue in those locations. I enjoyed this brief argument by Hitchens, but I hope people honor his memory and think critically about what was said, rather than default to idol worship.

[@samuelbaah7061]

can we get the entire debate please?

[@BradSamuelsPro]

www.c-span.org/video/?167191-1/reparations-slavery

[@briantwrynn3976]

@@BradSamuelsPro thanks

[@Buildings1772]

seems pretty clear that alot of people down here in the comments didn't watch the video.

[@carpballet]

I watched the video. I’m still unaware of the method/system of reparations.

[@thelandofboggs1168]

that was kind of lame by Hitchens standards, i don't agree with him here and he usually convinces me.

[@giveryourall5413]

Paul English You think our nations that pillaged and destroyed other nations don’t owe any sort of compensation?

[@meangreen8873]

@@wrath_of_thrawn2163 Islam isn't a race you utter muffin. His contentions on religion were completely valid.

[@michaelpcoffee]

The main claims for reparations are based on inheritance in general and real estate in particular. Both of those are under the jurisdiction of the Probate Court. How many of you 'claimants' have filed your claims with the one institution that can settle it?

[@john.john.johnny]

"Torrent of bad faith...lolllll "when people begin to introduce the irrelevant the non sequitur and the generalizations .. you can tell you're onto something". Lollll the Hitch

[@writerconsidered]

When he said that all I could think of was some of the bad rationalizations in the youtube comments. I've read a few times what about the Arabs who practiced slavery in the same time period.

[@probinson8296]

@@writerconsidered Hmm. Arabs have practised slavery since Sumerian times, as have many, if not most others. Slavery of one sort or another is still widely practised today. During the times that the American slave trade was going, Arabs, Europeans and other African tribes participated.

[@Cryptonymicus]

@@SkinnySkates Frankly, I think it should be "laugh aloud."

[@googleisskynet7312]

@@writerconsidered They aren't bad rationalizations. They are arguments intended to contextualize reparations as totally illogical and unjust.

[@googleisskynet7312]

I don't think that people who are being collectively assigned the guilt of historical events based on their race can be automatically dismissed as bad faith actors. Hitchens is basically just dismissing all arguments which attempt to contextualize the absurdity and injustice of the notion of transgenerational race-based reparations which I think is intellectually dishonest at best, and plainly malevolent at worst.

[@sunofsotep8265]

I'm overwhelmed with admiration for this man. His tact, his poise, his candor and honesty. His incredible eloquence, and here his piercing cognizance of an important issue that is often mistreated by the ignorant and biased. I would commend his consistency, but I've less respect for consistency after reading Emmerson's Self Reliance. I've never before felt in my life that person was gone too soon. My eternal admiration and respect to you Hitch!

[@sunofsotep8265]

@ what???

@Miki sadly hitch just got awakened to the fact that life was eternal, that he was wrong about God and misled many, all is not over for him as he will know no rest that’s very sad 😔. Should one respect and admire a lost sinner who confused many and stood on the throne of life denying his creator, well no, one should empathise for one that is so lost and deceived and who sadly apart from a deathbed conversion perished in his sins and trespasses, hardly something to celebrate.

[@sunofsotep8265]

@ Ah! Now I see. Well then, much good may all of that do you sir. Good day.

[@familyjermihov2503]

robert marshall nah hitchens was right. Because of him I regained my senses regarding superstition and the harm that a bad metaphysic (such as a belief in the eternal under the guise of a mind) can do. Youre incontrovertibly incorrect about Hitchens and its a damn shame you dont have the senses to see otherwise. This is just backhanded nonsense. Keep your religion to yourself. It’s foolish as was as pretentious and senseless.

[@lovely-shrubbery8578]

@ oh

[@snowflakemelter1172]

Wouldn't a fundamental principle of law be broken by paying compensation to someone for just being a relative of a person who suffered injury ?

[@kingirisnetwork9847]

Rufus Chucklebutty it’s more about the wave of economic and social damage that had been done by Jim Crow, slavery, ect.. All people of color have been affected by these things. Couldn’t get jobs, buy homes ect..

[@dickiebhee4711]

when people die, do their homes and cars go with them into the grave?

[@chadmueller1784]

Your question implies that the only blacks who have suffered in america did so as slaves, when I'd argue that slavery was just the initial injury (Jim Crow, etc.) and more importantly that damage is still being done to this day (the ridiculously high numbers of African Americans incarcerated in this country, etc.) and thus the reasonableness of reparations to that race of humans.

[@renaissancemarinetv3536]

@@chadmueller1784 then perhaps the democratic party as an entity should pay reparations.

[@rodstarcke5423]

@@kingirisnetwork9847 , but how is throwing money at the problem going to solve it. Wouldn't a better solution be for the black community to first gain self responsibility for the crime that exists in their neighborhood?

[@charleswinokoor6023]

I’ve long been a fervent admirer of CH. But I guess I’m not smart enough to get his point on this topic. He suggests that reparations are appropriate but never says it in a blunt manner. And he never provides details of how it could ever be undertaken. Sorry Hitch, I’m not buying it.

[@charleswinokoor6023]

Jesus Didnt Exist, No Proof, Look It Up Braille only. I like a challenge.

[@michaelgaspar4324]

I disagree with Hitch's rationale in that the reference to the Elgin Marbles would only be comparable if the nations of Africa wanted the decendants of it's stolen people back. This was a very poor position to take. I can't see how he could convolute "Reparation" with "Repatriation".

[@theschmoo-u6o]

@Camille Desmoulins Completely irrelevant to the issue at hand and also quite wrong. Whatever the austerity policy imposed by the European Stability Mechanism--or Germany, if you can't do without your own personal Antichrist--foreclosing on art is not how national debt is collected. Nice try at a segue though. @Michael Gaspar I agree with the part about Hitchens' conflation of "reparation"/"repatriation", but I think his injunction to not "make the best the enemy of the good" still holds. As far as reparation is concerned, the once-promised forty acres and a mule (or their modern-day value equivalent) might be a good start, since this would have been wealth passed down in the families of former slaves. After all, there are 640 million acres of federal land in the US.

[@ServingChrist]

Perhaps other speakers ventured into these areas but a few observations: 1. Mr. Hitchens claims the US should pay reparations for slavery but does not mention England should even though England started the practice in the US as early as 1619. The US was born into this practice and couldn't change things overnight. Yet, not a word about this aspect. 2. He frames the subject in ways that avoid important questions. For example, slavery was a legal practice. If it had been an illegal practice it would have been much smaller in scale. What precedent do you set if you punish people for doing something that was legal simply based on changing moral grounds? In addition, we have a practice in the West of not punishing the son for the sin's of the father or in this case the sins of the great grandfather being pushed on the great grandson. Except that doesn't even have it right because modern Americans have varying ancestry so only a percentage of their ancestry may have any tie to slavery if at all. This is all major departure from typical criminal and civil law so we would be creating a new precedent. 3. He ignores that genetic and/or other environmental factors are contributing to the existing divide rather than past issues with slavery. 4. Perhaps the biggest question avoided is will reparations actually heal the divide or will it widen it? Because if it becomes a practice it will create a lot of resentment and there will be repercussions that may be worse than the issue thought to be solved.

[@jeffsim4191]

Another thing he ignores... Most slaves from West Africa were captured and sold by West African's.

[@charlesgradle286]

Native Americans were screwed the most because the Europeans came in and took their land and their culture. So with this where does it end? Reparations is a dumb and dangerous idea.

[@Lodatzor]

@@charlesgradle286 *"1. Mr. Hitchens claims the US should pay reparations for slavery but does not mention England should even though England started the practice in the US as early as 1619. The US was born into this practice and couldn't change things overnight. Yet, not a word about this aspect."* Probably because the number of slaves owned in English colonies in the US was tiny, and also because the English didn't have slavery IN ENGLAND. It was something only done in the American colonies, and mostly in the Caribbean. So, why would England today be responsible for what American colonists did, especially after they gained independence from Britain before the slave trade even became as big as it was? Secondly, the British already paid reparations for the slave trade. It took them 200 years, but the British tax-payer paid off the cost of abolition. I agree with everything else you wrote.

[@monicasuzette]

@@charlesgradle286 naTive Americans already receive reparations. So do Jewish Peoples and japaneese..this is not something that hasn't or isn't being done .it is okay for everyone else but dumb for black desendants of slavery..

[@BillGreenAZ]

Charles Gradle There were only about 10 million Natives in America when Columbus arrived. They didn't claim the whole continent as theirs so very little of their land was stolen. The reason they were put in reservations is because they savagely killed innocent men, women and children who settled on land the Natives didn't claim.

[@MarkPageJr]

I don't owe anyone anything.

[@cliffgaither]

_You owe the IRS OR are you avoiding paying taxes ?_

[@dickiebhee4711]

doubt that. we all owe someone. you have no gratitude.

[@RafaDaGreat]

The government owes...you have no say.

[@rosariomoreno3558]

Dickie Bhee, I respect your opinion but you’re not going to change anyone’s mind talking about Jesus who isn’t Catholic nor Christian

[@dickiebhee4711]

Faye Flower I’m grateful to be alive so yes, I suppose

[@JohnWilliams-channel]

I think reparations should take the reverse form of Lee Atwater's southern strategy. If we propose to help everyone who suffers from a legacy of poverty, if that helps minorities such as blacks more, then so be it. There is so much injustice in US history, and I think the proof is in the soaring poverty rates of minorities. We need to provide them with opportunities to advance their social class, and do it under the rubric of lifting everyone out of poverty.

[@NeganLucilleForever]

reparations make no sense for these reasons: 1. no one who was subjected to slavery is alive 2. not all black people descended from slaves 3. not all white people descended from slave owners 4. there were black slave owners (though very few) you can't lift anyone out of poverty by giving them handouts. there are more poor white people than black people in America, so why should the black people get help and not the white people? if you want to help, just help those who need help, don't pick and choose based on race, that's racism.

[@JohnWilliams-channel]

@@MrWhodatsay Don't get me started about colonialism in Africa. That is NOT an argument you are going to win.

[@Atamanxxxvii]

@@JohnWilliams-channel Lol, I hear this every time I'm about to spank some idiot over colonialism. Give it your best shot.

[@JohnWilliams-channel]

@@Atamanxxxvii Are you going to deny colonialism from the major western powers, England, France, Spain, Portugal, and others? Because that's where you get spanked, Skippy.

[@Atamanxxxvii]

@@JohnWilliams-channel well do it then, come on I'm waiting

[@jefferycsm]

I like the guy a lot, but disagree with him. If we pay this generation, then does that absolve us from the next one? Or the one after that? Just when does that bill get paid, when I didn't own a slave, nor did any other of my ancestors? What if my ancestor fought for the Union in the Civil War...do I get a waiver? Does a debt my ancestor made 1000 years ago still become mine? The guilty and the ones who WERE abused and enslaved are long dead. Let them rest in peace.

[@user-po5bi6jb9g]

I suggest an end on income taxation and free medical insurance for the African American population

[@dubsspilly5864]

@@user-po5bi6jb9g Lmao that's pretty much where they're at now!

[@davidkerk5676]

how bout they can receive reparation if they renounce their citizenship and return to their ancestors point of sale. reparation to be equal to purchase price and in the currency of that region inflation adjusted. the whole concept is ludicrous. the families of those who immigrated after the fact just get the shaft i take it.

[@frontdeskstaff9359]

@@user-po5bi6jb9g I'm all for that as long as the descendants of those union soldiers who died freeing the slaves get the same benefits as well as all those who's ancestors either had nothing to do with slavery or immigrated after slavery was abolished

[@williamcarlson1131]

As soon as I am paid for my ancestors land, the women and children who were slaughtered, and our culture destroyed, THEN, AND ONLY THEN will I talk about "reperations".

[@krob1957]

It's pretty simple really. You are responsible for your sins. You are not responsible for anyone else's...whether they are in your lineage or not.

[@Macconator2010]

If you can reap the benefits of your ancestors, the inheritance of wealth, then why should you not also inherit the responsibilities of your ancestors, especially if they lied, killed or enslaved to gain said wealth? If you don’t want to inherit the responsibilities then you should not inherit their wealth and assets.

[@dyslexiusmaximus]

@@Macconator2010 well said

[@dyslexiusmaximus]

no one is saying we are responsible for our ancestors sins.

[@alanwoodwind5265]

@@Macconator2010 that's fine. I have lineage that traces back to the Barbary Slave trade. So I need to foot the bill to North Africans who enslaved my ancestors? I think not.

[@peteturner4821]

@@alanwoodwind5265 , the Arab slave trade predates the Atlantic slave trade by hundreds of years.

[@sssoundslike2259]

The problem with reparations is that, it isn’t only impossible to implement, but if it were, how much would be enough? Undoubtedly, there will be sections of the population who will never be happy and will continue to demand more and more. The same can be said for every welfare program ever implemented, enough is never enough. And, much like welfare, it may not be very effective, if at all. The idea of paying people compensation for something they’ve never experienced and expecting others who’ve never partook in the practice to pay for it, is absurd.

[@brandone711]

No judgement on anyone, but the reparations they are receiving through virtually all media by way of political/criminal invincibility as well as the educational/economic advantages that affirmative action have endowed them with currently vastly outweigh a one time large cash payment of say for instance 100,000 dollars(per individual).

[@joecommie4890]

Kind of like the creation of the State of Israel

[@stevefarris9433]

My ancestors were Irish and came to America as indentured servants. I will take my reparations in whiskey, thank you.

[@christianvaclavic9574]

Do the Third Reich or Umayyad Caliphate have active HR departments? As Slavic "vermin" or "garbage," I'll happily take my reparations in Adidas and slivovitz, or vodka if you must. It's gotta be potato, though! I know my new Irish friend stands with me on this. Corn is for whiskey, not for vodka...

[@stevefarris9433]

Agreed. Bourbon, corn whiskey, Vodka potato base. @@christianvaclavic9574

[@stevefarris9433]

@@christianvaclavic9574 Never heard the term Slavic "vermin or garbage". But if it was used by the Third Reich or the muslims I would take it as an intended insult and say to hell with them.

[@stevefarris9433]

Once again I heartily agree. Corn for bourbon, Potato for Vodka.@@christianvaclavic9574

[@christianvaclavic9574]

@@stevefarris9433 Oh, yeah. Heydrich and Hitler hated the Czechs. Ironically, their tests concluded the Czech people had more "Aryan" traits than a lot of Germany. So...jealousy, maybe? They covered it up, it course. What else is a government to do?!

[@HeathenGeek]

Today's word boys and girls is. . . Mendicant

[@vicioussyd6870]

Dark

[@abefroman8202]

Begged!

[@robertsullivan4773]

I can see his argument. But to my defense I say I wasn't here during the time of slavery in this country. My ancestors weren't here either they were starving in Ireland and being persecuted by the crown. You see a bill is due but who is to say who rightly owes the back wages..

[@TheRealColt45]

I struggle with that as well, but I think the answer would have to be we as a nation. We as the United States permitted the practice and as a result, millions of Americans were never paid for their labor.

[@jandrews6254]

Doug Colt goodo then, can you now pay all women for their unpaid and lower paid work?

[@jongreenaway6025]

J Andrews that’s what Birmingham city council did. That’s why it had to sell all its assets 😂

[@Octavian2]

@@TheRealColt45 might seem reasonable if you include white slaves as well

[@conradblack779]

@@TheRealColt45 you live in the most prosperous nation the earth has ever seen that's your reward for your ancestors suffering, every country and civilisation on earth had slavery why would America be the ones to pay?. More Europeans were taken by the barbary slavers than african slaves were taken to the American colonies. Cuba had twice as many African slaves as America. The Vikings enslaved lots of Irish and Scottish approximately 62% of the Icelandic maternal gene pool is derived from Ireland and Scotland. People from Scandinavia do not owe us Irish and Scots anything. During the height of the Irish famine where millions starved to death grain was stolen from Ireland by the Crown and sold to the American colonies Neither the British or the American colonies who benefitted owe Irish people anything today. Everyone could stake a claim that they are owed something butt that's not how the world works we are not on the hook for something our ancestors did or didnt do

[@VolvoImpala]

I'm kinda convinced if every grievance anybody ever had were repaid the world would just end.

[@terrancehall9762]

So make excuses for evil?

[@VolvoImpala]

@@terrancehall9762 A grievance based society is evil.

[@terrancehall9762]

@@VolvoImpala so more excuses for evil

[@himehomemi5642]

Haha with the amount of heinous shit everyones done to everyone else we'd probably end up with ww3 fighting to see who's picking up the tab

[@KLRCAT]

"If you give a man a fish he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat forever" Reparations will cause more damage, as it will only make people more dependent on the government. This is standard Marxist/Communist thinking. Now you understand why he addressed the audience as "Comrades" 🤦‍♂️

[@TomorrowWeLive]

I agree completely with the analogy between the Elgin Marbles and African sl@ves (ensl@ved by each other or by Arabs, I must point out, not by Europeans) and think restitution should be made in both cases and in the same manner--immediate repatriation.

[@againsteternity110]

In order for a fight to stop and peace to ensue, one has to be okay with being hit last, and the other live with being the one who hit last, or the fight will simply never cease.

[@acarpentersson8271]

Yes, and when victory is won, it is crucial that the victor declares victory and ends the war. If you win, but continue waging war, you will either begin the process of genocide, or provoke the other side to return to the war. Neither is good. It shows that peace and equality are not the prize, but domination, and utter destruction.

[@Slimbones125]

Terrible morality here

[@againsteternity110]

@@Slimbones125 It's an objective statement, not a morally virtuous position.

[@johnyoung2645]

The best way to repair the damage from slavery is to ensure nobody can be a slave ever, and that everyone is treated the same under the law without protected groups. Anything else is just band aids.

[@WolfsH0ok]

There are more slaves today than 100 years ago Its just that no one cares because they are not in western countries People think the west is evil, and they only really virtue signal when the west does something And that is because in western democracy they have been given freedom to virtue signal its almost like self loathing

[@kindanyume]

thats a lame ass straw man pile of crap and we all know it age is irrelevant to this context..@PikPobedy

[@Gauge1LiveSteam]

I've been paying reparations since LBJ's "Great Society" in 1965.

[@theodorebrown978]

White people was collecting that LBJ check dumbass

[@anirudhmenon5085]

@@baddog6003 are you native American? Just curious

[@user-vl5qg5rf4n]

@@baddog6003 >not realizing islam at one point conquered half of europe and all of northern and eastern africa. >not surprised at all basically what I'm saying is, if we had left them alone they'd probably be equal in terms of societal and economic development. Oh and they would all be arab more than likely. perhaps spreading so far that we were too

[@jojohehe3251]

Elgin's Marbles are a non sequitur - and he complains about his opinion on them being subjected to non sequiturs. He also says when people stoop to such tactics, then you're on to something. His entire argument is emotional - and he comments about those who satisfy themselves with emotion.

[@_TheOleRazzleDazzle_]

He is using it as an example to juxtapose wrongs that can easily and entirely be made right, and those wrongs that cannot be made right, at least not completely.

[@m.f.b7144]

Christopher you were born in the wrong year. You belong to our present and future. You are just amazing. 💖

[@likerofvideos4534]

I don’t know if the present and future would be the same if he hadn’t already been here. A truly brilliant mind, and I agree with the heart of your statement, we need him now more than ever

[@poozer1986]

Why thank you, comrade

[@coolhand67]

Go to Wikipedia and look up “slavery” and then jump to the history section and read it. Once you have read that, try and figure out how you would unpick that dung hill of atrocity and figure out who should be paying what to whom in reparations. Pretty much all societies have been subjected to slavery throughout history and it is not a black and white issue (pun intended) the Africans and Arabs and many others were just as complicit. I think Western societies have put a huge amount of money in aid programs and in supporting minorities in their countries and welcoming former colonial immigrants and that is the right way to go about it, if you should go about it at all. These questions always seem to center around the evil white man narrative, but here is just one quote “The Arab slave trade lasted more than a millennium. As recently as the early 1960s, Saudi Arabia's slave population was estimated at 300,000.”. Where are the calls for reparations from Syria, Jordan, Iraq etc? Ultimately we live by a creed that “the child shall not be punished for the crimes of their parents” and so reparations should not be on the agenda in my opinion. Nobody alive today is held back by this history. The majority of the people in the countries in question were wretched and poor and benefited nothing from the slave trade and to suggest that people who never benefited from slavery should pay people who never experienced slavery is utter Marxist nonsense designed to stoke the flames of grievance and victimhood.

[@Bonez0r]

I would give you a thousand likes if I could.

[@nonamenomoreno4211]

I miss this guys takes on things, and his subtle humor!

[@DarrenH001]

Such effortless panache. Also, don't know what more striking: How warm he looked or the fact that wasn't johnnie walker black label in his hand.

[@Salamattder]

3:40 he was drinking that white wine 🤣😎

[@aelwyn1]

Saudi Arabia should start paying reparations for the far more extensive Arab slave trading.

[@dylanblack3279]

You're still feeling spineless Christian guilt. Empires aren't built with white gloves mate.

[@hogwashsentinel]

To who exactly? The reason there isn't a huge underclass of descendants of the arab slave trade is because they castrated the males and took the women as concubines.

[@aelwyn1]

@@hogwashsentinel And the female slaves?

[@hogwashsentinel]

@@aelwyn1 took them as concubines as I said. Bred them out if you want to get technical.

[@aelwyn1]

@@hogwashsentinel You're wrong about all male slaves being castrated. Some weren't because those who were sometimes died. In 2010, about 100 baby boys died in the USA from a botched circumcision, a much less invasive procedure than a castration. An early sex change operation was done because of a botched circumcision.

[@zackbee874]

Reparations? Paid by whom, the Africans who sold their own people? What was done a long tome ago by people who are dead to other people who are also dead is in the past. I appreciate Hitchens but strongly disagree with him on this one.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Well, it wasn't just them, but also those that tried to counter abolition for a long time...

[@jbmuggins8815]

did you finish the video? everyone reasonable knows it was a disgusting deal. remember that slavery was introduced by societies allegedly bearing enlightenment values.

[@TrillEverything]

And 100 yrs of Jim Crow and in some cases nearly 200 yrs, as Jim Crow is the natural birthed child after ending slavery. Slavery ended in 1783 in Massachusetts. Legal Jim Crow came right after and truly didn't end until the busing crisis in 1974, just shy of 200 yrs. Most Irish and Italians were not even here until after 1850, while Africans bullet this country. In building this country these enslaved Africans also had most of the labor skills. And this is what Jim Crow and lynching was all about. It was about killing freed blacks ability to COMPETE when they had superior labor skills... Hence, newly arriving Europeans would not be as needed, nor able to build their new lives if the freed Africans had equal access to opportunity as newly arriving immigrants, as your family. Your family came despite slavery and Jim Crow, hence...you should pay for your birthright. Can you imagine if there were 10 million Barack Obamas? Lol... The goal has also been to prevent that. I kid you not, 1/2 your women would defect.

[@kizombeiro8130]

In effect taking money from people who were never slave owners and giving it to people who were never slaves.

[@TrillEverything]

@@kizombeiro8130 You have a slanted view of history. If you live in America you benefit from the free labor of the enslaved. If you live in America you don't have to compete evenly with descendents of slavery because the Government stole land and instituted laws against African descendents. The laws and behaviors resulted in over 100 years of Sanctions on African American communities. Look what sanction have done to Iran in just a few years. Imagine having 100 years of Sanctions after 250 yrs of enslavement. Yes. Generation wealth, knowledge and skills were denied to the descendents of the enslaved. Sorry, your family came here (If here) because America was a panacea. Africans helped make it that panacea with free labor and blood..Their children never received generational wealth. And generational wealth is what helps families transcend their immigrant status in America.

[@ot92s]

well..the democratic party may owe reparations. but current tax slaves and republicans certainly don't

[@PeterTaviawkNews]

I would"ve loved to see him expound on the Arab slave trade in Africa.

[@spanishflea634]

Bad faith argument, just as he talked about.

[@Atlantis1789]

His prescription is to force innocent people to pay for the sins and crimes of others: thus another sin, and crime. That is not Justice. Nor do two wrongs make a right.

[@DeviantDeveloper]

Jim Aulenti worse than that, for people not guilty of a crime to pay compensation to people who have not had crime inflicted upon them.

[@jahbless9604]

Nonsense. When police commit brutality and are sued. My tax dollars go to pay restitution. Because you simply lack any understanding of the way in which social justice works is not CH fault.

[@jahbless9604]

Mauris What? Lol oh so Germany shouldn’t have had to pay restitution? Or Turkey gets off free for the Armenian holocaust? Or we shouldn’t have paid for Japanese interment? That happened recently and I wasn’t alive during WW2? Even the most Conservative Republicans voted to pay for “the sins of our fathers.” Lol. No I suspect there is something else going on with you. I cant prove it but I suspect something else is motivating your position. Go on say it! We both know exactly why you’re against reparations to black folk.

[@wastehazey6468]

@@jahbless9604 You're an idiot.

[@ivy9178]

I was under the impression that he was not advocating for reparations but against them

[@epicmatt12]

Here because of the most recent “Making Sense” Podcast. Anyone else with me?

[@rickybosephus2036]

Dude, reparations do not make sense. Hitchens is a moron in this area. I would debate and destroy him any day of the week and have gone to toe with him in the past. He thanked me even, and said he learned something! Reparations for any group is divisive and pushed by the world wide Marxist communist effort to divide the US and destroy it.

[@epicmatt12]

@@rickybosephus2036 I agree with you. Reparations make no sense.

[@stuboy261]

Yep, here for the same reason, Hitch was so salient and informed about everything I've seen him in I really thought I might come here to find an intelligent argument for reparations... I was very disappointed.

[@johnorona99]

@@epicmatt12 What part of hitchens argument do you disagree with?

[@Alacard0malley]

Yep

[@jklxn]

My ancestors came from Norway, and some joined the Union Army straight away. So, what of that? I have one that died while serving. So, who owes here? How do people who have no ancestors that were slaves deserve reparations?

[@robertvernon4826]

Typical european thinking,...so called.

[@jklxn]

robert vernon what, not wanting to pay for something to some one else for no good reason? How about reparations for my ancestors dying..? If your ancestors werent slaves? No reps. That would take care of a good majority of it.

[@robertvernon4826]

I am european just like you, you idiot

[@jklxn]

well wth was i supposed to think?

[@dicksplat2049]

Where's the full debate please?

[@clintonjefferson6494]

I agree with reparations, but not in a lump sum of money given to people, but to invest in black people and black neighborhoods. Many all bit abandoned.

[@sammyschlablabble]

What about Irish Americans? Or black slave owners?when it comes to the Irish we had it much worse and for much longer overall almost 3 out of 10 Americans are descended slaves.who would pay?the confederate government is dead he federal government sacrificed 350,000 lives.the only people responsible would be the democratic party

[@clintonjefferson6494]

+sammy1227 schlablabble Let's be clear, I'm talking about black slaves desendents. We overall benefited from slavery as a country. The Confederacy and the Democratic party are irrelevant. I don't get how the Irish had it worse or what that has to do with the conversation.

[@clintonjefferson6494]

+ruediger hahn I don't understand, what is racist about what I said. I'm talking about reparations for American chattel slavery specifically. Don't know what you mean by equal white and black slaves, so I'll ignore because it doesn't seem related to what I'm talking about.

[@clintonjefferson6494]

+ruediger hahn Let me be clear, I'm not falling in that "What about this or that whoever" trap. It's not racist to ask for reparations because you think it is. I assume you're not black by how you're arguing you point. Also, BLM is having us to at least start the conversation and there's facts behind the emotion.

[@clintonjefferson6494]

+ruediger hahn As a BLM supporter thank you for telling me what I think. Saying All Lives Matter isn't racist, but it diverts from the issue. The problem is unwarranted murder of black people by the police. the police officer race is irrelevant. The thing is that black folk are pissed, and your stats and saying it's because of black on black crime isn't going solve it.

[@mollystreames7369]

Sorry hitch can't agree this time Elgin marbles apart who would pay but the government who would get it threw taxation of the working class not the nobles and industrialists who owned and made fortunes from slavery the wrong people would pay for it

[@paulwerdel4745]

My ancestors came to Minnesota and Iowa in the late 1850's. So why should my family be forced to pay for what others did?

[@cvn6555]

Apparently if you are white you must pay to assuage your guilt. If you don't feel guilt for being white then you're a racist. (Sarcasm)

[@obi-wanshinobi2353]

I’m Scottish and I demand that the English pay back my 700 years of child support for prima nocta.

[@DieFlabbergast]

Send the bill to Mel Gibson: that crap in Braveheart was just fantasy.

[@GeneralG1810]

@DieFlabbergast Are you saying the English didn't lord over the Scottish and Irish? Because I hate to tell you they fucking did.

[@GeneralG1810]

Ryan I absolutely agree my mother is Scottish and I hold no animosity to the English for past crimes, unlike black people today who have never been victims of slavery but will tell you they’re owed reparations for what happened to their great, great, great grandparents

[@GeneralG1810]

@Ryan lol oh man that's a tough question I'm going to ask the Hodge twins about that one

[@steves1015]

Obi-wan Shinobi oh damn, being English I guess we’d have to pay pretty much half the countries in the world for past wrongdoing. But we’re on our way to financial ruin anyway. Well we could always get the money from the French for their part in the 11th century and the Italians for the 1st century....

[@emameyer]

i'd be curious how you go from the theoretical proposition of reparations to the actual reparation distribution. how do you calculate the amount? how would you pay for it? taxes? taxing everyone? who would benefit from it? conceptually one could agree with the reparations concept but it would be impossible to implement. creating a reservation like for the indians and giving the blacks autonomy and self-governance? happy to be educated on how it can be done. really

[@itWouldBeWise]

Yea it's a difficult question. Subcultural issues brought up by Obama regarding being academically successful being seen as "acting white" such that there is a social pressure pushing against gaining the skills increasingly necessary to succeed in the modern world... Writing checks for reparations isn't going to solve those kinds of issues, but if there's some way to invest in a way that helps people become more personally responsible and successful that does make a lot of sense

[@thedhive6512]

Same way the Native Americans were compensated for starters. Special protective status that comes with tax waivers ranging from personal earnings to businesses. Favoritism in the college admissions process. Next you take the "economic basket of goods" that the Bureau of Labor Statistics uses to market and report economic data, and you track from the first recorded delivery of colonial slaves or to make it even simpler the establishment of the 13 colonies all the way to present day the accumulated wealth the average household (man, woman, two children) on a generational level should have and hold that number. Next you take that number and multiply it by every African American that can be genetically linked back to the history of American based chattel antebellum slavery and then you distribute it to every qualifying individual over the age of 18 and make the appropriate adjustments for parents with children under 18 to gain some small bonuses. The US gave over 3 trillion dollars to private organizations and the stock market in one of the largest wealth transfers ever recorded people keep using "we don't have the money" as a justification but that is unfounded, especially considering the growing popularity of MMT.

[@thedhive6512]

@@itWouldBeWise This has nothing to with the man's question. Do you feel the same about Japanese, Native, American, Jewish, and post WWII victims of other nations (including Germany) getting straight up cash?

[@emameyer]

thanks @@thedhive6512 for your suggestions. this is fascinating but very difficult (probably impossible) to implement. surely you are not suggesting punishing an entire ethnic group, whose vast vast majority is unrelated to slave owners, for the a tort done centuries ago would just because of the colour of their skin. if you don't mind I have a few questions: Who qualifies? Do they have to prove decent from slave (or would any modern black immigrant qualify too?) What about mixed race blacks (like Obama) would they qualify in a % of their blackness? what about black slave owners? would their descent qualify too or would they have to pay back? think about William Ellison, first a black slave, then the biggest slave owner in South Carolina. Who would pay for it? all the whites? even modern white immigrants whose family never benefited from slave wealth creating in the US? If everyone pays it would seem unfair that the present-day migrants end up paying for the slavery perpetrated by English colonists. Also, would you extend this historical reparation to the white slaves (irish) or the Asian slave workers? What about women (white or otherwise)? They couldn't even vote (or own property) back in the slavery days. Would they also be required to be punished by having a competitive disadvantage in college admissions or business? Would states that didn't exist before abolition (Hawaii, Alaska, Puerto Rico) still be on the hook? How would you compensate the modern white migrants and all the other non-whites (latino, asian, etc) for the disadvantage you would be putting them in? say a Ukrainian (they are very, very white) immigrant who moved to the US as a war refugee a few years ago, worked hard and now would have to pay reparation tax and his kids would be at a disadvantage when going to college or starting a business. would there be sanctions to the countries that benefited from the triangular trade? surely without traders the black slaves would never have reached the colonies and later the US. should companies involved in this trade be punished with a special tax? what if these companies employ blacks today and by taxing them we risk putting them out of business thereby inflicting further injustice on the black employees of those companies? would there be any exemptions and for how long would this work? i'd like to think that the descent from soldiers that gave their lives to free slaves during the civil war would be exempt. Wouldn't they have made the ultimate sacrifice and atonement for the sins of their fellow whites?

[@charlesvan13]

@@thedhive6512 The political blowback for that would be devastating. The black community has already extracted revenge for the anger caused by making slavery the linch pin of their identity. At least 15 dead and businesses burned to the ground.

[@JohnSmith-lm7ez]

Hitch is wrong. He argued there is no longer a Babylon, yet there are contemporary people in Iraq that have a claim. Just because the name we call people, i.e. Babylonian vs citizens of Iraq, doesn't mean the people stop existing. With this said, where do we draw the line for reparations. Should we make the modern Italians, who clearly banked their exploitive nature into capital as Romans, assume some financial responsibility to the many peoples they aggrieved? It is one thing to realize a wrong, like the seizure of property, and try to correct it. It is another to place atonement on things as intangible as past profits.

[@sstraxx]

Lol , Ya, its "intangible " because we choose for it to be. Obviously there's not a dollar amount that can make up for what was done. But you certainly can ( & people have ) put an approximate figure on what dollar amount would be owed for centuries of free labor. In modern dollars we'd be talking about almost 2 trillion dollars . We are really good as Americans at figuring out shit we WANT to do. "If you can put a man on the moon".

[@JohnSmith-lm7ez]

Are you serious? Look just because I kinda look like someone that allegedly did some past crime doesn't make me accountable. This is an immoral place to begin your argument, because the presumption is racially motivated.

[@sstraxx]

I'm sure a line can be drawn somewhere. But I'm sorry my friend, we dont have to go back but 55 years to find total atrocity in this country in regards to African Americans. We're NOT talking about 2000 years ago. We're talking just 150 years for slavery & not until 1965 did Jim Crow,blatant discrimination, lynching ,inability to vote & real estate red lining begin to subside. That's just 50 year. Hitch knows his history & how we're just a generation away ( my father lived under Jim Crow as a boy....& my 101 year old grandmother was born in the deep south 1914)from many horrendous wrongs.

[@sstraxx]

+Philip Hennen So yes....I would say he's very "serious ".

[@sstraxx]

John Smith​ The whole country was built upon a foundation of "Race" John. There's no way to address the problem WITHOUT the subject being at the center of the conversation. You can blame our country for that one. Slavery & the 100 years of Jim Crow , lynching & real estate red lining, was all based SOLELY on "race". The people who were hugely affected by it ,we're African Americans. Don't know how you address the issue without addressing race. That's nonsensical. It's racist NOT to discuss. Because you're basically saying we should forget all the iniquities that still exist because of that history. Silly.

[@jackmesa]

It's odd that someone like Hitchens would, on another stage, argue vehemently (and quite rightly) against the Christian concept of Generational Sin, yet in this forum he argues the exact opposite. Why should African Americans be the only ones who deserve reparations for past wrong-doings? Why stop at them? Why not Armenians, 1940's Serbians, how about British victims of Viking raids? Let's go back 2000 years...or maybe 4000 years....

[@itsthekush]

Re-watch his talk. He preempts that line of argumentation with "don't let the best be the enemy of the good." Though I'll admit, I don't think reparations would rectify the situation that the vast majority of African Americans face. A one time cash payment will not fix the structural poverty cycle. We need to double down on efforts to improve education, improve access to healthcare, and to generally gentrify poor (and predominantly black) neighborhoods. One of the biggest failures of the establishment left in the US was to ensure that African Americans received political rights, and then to (largely) give up on economic justice.

[@jebediahkrimsoncraftleding3012]

He mocked your very style of argument for a good minute in his speech. I hope you did this ironically.

[@socalcraigster]

Have you watched the entire debate/discussion yet? It addressed your point.

[@coreygraham860]

Jebediah Krimsoncraftleding Mocking does not equal rebutting.

[@jebediahkrimsoncraftleding3012]

Corey Graham I would love to argue with you, but not when you've clearly disregarded the contents of the debate in order to make some flowery, half-assed point. In this event, "mocking" and "rebutting" are synonymous, as I thought he so easily dismantled your flawed argument, that it made a mockery of anyone who would choose to use it. Watch the debate again to see Hitchens' argument, as I see no need to clarify what you can see for yourself, if you stopped being lazy.

[@TheUrgleBurgle]

I wish he was still with us.

[@lutherblissett8780]

He would be horrified at how far we've fallen.

[@timmorodgers4271]

Luther Blissett but not surprised

[@zigababnik8780]

@@lutherblissett8780 I'm not sure, Dawkins and DeGrasse totally disappointed, they're completely synchronized with mainstream propaganda.

[@davidjackson940]

Is this complete video somewhere?

[@Patrick_B687-3]

Can you imagine how nauseated he would be over the closed minded state of the university’s now!?

[@sgtshard8280]

Close minded? In what way?

[@Warhero1171]

Every university I've been to has overwhelmingly supported reparations for slavery. The close mindedness comes from the conservatives who claim that affirmative action is unfair and that minorities have equal opportunities despite statistics saying otherwise. I have a feeling Hitchens would be targeting Trump and the white nationalist movement that has accounted for at least 80% of all terrorist attacks in the United States since 9/11.

[@sgtshard8280]

@@Warhero1171 i agree with you. Ive heard shit like he'd be attacking these sjws but they didnt know him very well if they think that. He would be disappojnted in sam harris i think

[@PlayNiceFolks]

@@sgtshard8280 There is an anti free speech component in the SJW movement. Hitch would have opposed that part of it. Hitch was also a bit sexist, tho with some self aware irony.

[@sgtshard8280]

@@PlayNiceFolks its not anti free speech. They just protest. Freedom of speech under our constitution only means the government cant put u in jail for saying something. Unless its a threat. I dont particularly care for the sjw movement either but dont they have freedom of speech too? Freedom of speech goes both ways. It does not mean i get to say whatever i want but noone gets to say what they want back.

[@gregt6587]

The very concept of reparations is a making whole by closest approximation to original un-insulted state as possible. If the original and primary insult is removal, then primary reparation is return. If damage is consequent to such, but of such nature as to be found constitutionally irreparable, then suitable substitutionary means of compensation must be agreed upon. If I steal your car, then burn it...its value is owed. Obviously there must be a fair disposition of such, for it would be far too easy for the aggrieved to say "That car was my dead granddaddy's and its value to me is not as a beat up 1964 Valiant, but measured to me in the millions of dollars..." But in this case, who will decide "what's fair" and who is to bear the burden of its compensation becomes more than a sticky wicket. But, even if one agrees insult/crime occurred, reparations cannot be demanded except of the particular perpetrators, no group en masse is culpable (except it be by criminal conspiracy) nor responsible for the actions of the fewer. Surely claiming "white guilt" makes all culpable by their Caucasian persuasion is as much a joke as seeking to foist all law enforcement and penal costs incurred by certain others of a group the sole responsibility (by proportion) to that other group. Were one able to prove "the damages" are solely the result of, and solely peculiar to, a group by their nature alone, that surely might help in the cause of assessing culpability. Otherwise one will discover they have "no standing" to bring suit. If "only whites" (and all whites, no less) are by nature rapists, killers, or cruel, or have ever and only been those who participated in slavery (or whatever original insult is assessed to be), then by all means...white guilt, even if denied, exists. But such becomes ludicrous. For then whites in Germany or Norway, would be no less guilty and subject to such prosecution for recovery of damages, than any other. They too, no less, are "guilty of being white" and culpable for any and all crimes claimed against what identifies itself as "non white". Surely the descendants of abolitionists must then be exempt. (And undoes the previous canard of all whites are guilty) The children of immigrants post 1865, no less. And what of remuneration for all the descendants of Union soldiers whose lives were lost who may lay claim such deaths were attributable all and only in the cause of liberation even if and though they were conscripted. (Is a man denied right to choose for himself motive after such?) Motive in all...is key. The man who ignorantly or incidentally benefits (as I would argue) from such a thing as may be argued as crime...is not himself penalized to any degree in any other circumstance. The shopkeeper who sells the thief a cola months after such thief has visited his "fence" is not diligently sought out to return any profit he made in that exchange. And to me, these claims, especially broadened by claims that "all whites" still reap the benefits of a thing ended in excess of 150 years ago are no more worthy of consideration. (And how would one adjudicate such benefits accrued to even other nations...by this nations's prosperity?) MIght the Bahama's or Australia owe something...for all the "white American's" who have vacationed there with ill gotten gains? What portion of "Foreign Aid" is to be assessed for recovery and redistribution? Shylock had a grievance, but Portia was wiser in seeing the motive, and seeing its manifest nature by which Shylock's claim (born of duplicity) could be frustrated. Motive in all...is key.

[@niklasbla9076]

dude..i wish i had the necessary vocabulary to give you adequate praise for that composition.

[@gregt6587]

@@niklasbla9076 , those are kind words, and appreciated.

[@SwishyJ]

Well put Greg

[@stephenryder1995]

Utterly illiterate gibberish

[@gregt6587]

@@stephenryder1995 fair 'nough.

[@kayleighjames8580]

I don't think Hitchens is saying that *we* as individuals (most of whom statistically are not descendants of slave owners including myself) are to take responsibility of paying back the financial gain of slave labor. I think he is saying that the USA government is in financial debt to the black community who had slave ancestors. I'm not saying there is any way possible to trace lineages or come up with a $sum of all, say, value of federal buildings built by slave labor... but he is definitely not from what I heard saying that I have to open my wallet and hand Al Sharpton twenty bucks because I'm white. I'm not even going to get into a conversation about our nation's debts either but Hitch was only making a point, I believe. All he is saying to our generation of white people is that we should never forget history and stop whining when topics like this come up. And don't forget, most of us are not descended from slave owners but it does not bode well to automatically jump to defense. "I didn't have anything to do with slavery!" can lead to several generations later forgetting what it means to understand how awful such a thing can be. There are many other things historically that we cannot forget that have nothing to do with racism but we, as the descendents of history, would do well not to forget... not to feel a personal "guilt" about something you didn't do, not at all. But as evidence of what *can* happen again in a variety of situations, human slavery only being one of them. Quote: Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Maybe not in the same way or by the same people, but a repetition none the less. *I* as a white person do not feel guilty for slavery because I have never owned slaves. But my empathy for all of the hurt, pain and suffering that people of my race have done in the past is a very real reminder that I should never stand for such a thing or accept such a thing from a racial majority ever again. Just as if the tables had been turned in some alternate history: if black people in the last couple of centuries had founded this country on the product of white slave labor and I was a black person- I expect I would feel the same way.

[@braemtes23]

Kayleigh James For a millennium, white Europeans suffered being enslaved at the hands of Muslims (Moors, Algerians, Arabs, and Ottomans). A few examples follow: Slave raiding by Muslims went as far north as Iceland and Ireland. The very word slave comes from the Slavic peoples who were enslaved en masse. At the Battle of Lepanto, tens of thousands of European men were galley slaves on the Ottoman ships. The most beautiful women (all Christian) were forced into sexual slavery. Southern Europeans were cut off from the Mediterranean and lived in constant fear of slave raids onto their shores so they had to pull back from the shores and build walls to protect their people. This topic is so vast and the atrocities so vile, but no-one will discuss it or even cares because it does not fit the narrative of the evil white man. The Portuguese endured a nightmare for 550 years under African and Arabic Muslim enslavement and domination until they reconquered their land. Any wonder after 550 years of slavery being inflicted upon the Portuguese that it became ingrained in them and they returned the favor? The difference is that the Portuguese ended slavery after a time, the Muslims did not. When the Portuguese receive reparations for the enslavement of their people, perhaps they will pass them on to those they enslaved.

[@HeathWatts]

Your examples are not about the United States and its history of slavery. You seem to be claiming that because other nations and religions had slaves, and if they have not had to pay reparations, why should the U.S.? If you are from the U.S., then your argument is disingenuous. Slavery in the U.S. ended just 154 years ago, and since then, particularly in the Southern U.S. but throughout the nation, there has been a systematic effort to ensure that African Americans remain impoverished, uneducated, and suppressed. Since the Christians overthrew the Muslims in Portugal over 750 years ago the Christians have dominated, and have carried out atrocities of their own (e.g., the Inquisition; the reign of Salazar). Are you arguing that Islam should pay reparations to Christians in Portugal? Should the Christians of Portugal pay reparations for their treatment of Muslims during the Inquisition? If so, Christians should pay reparations to Native People in the Americas, Africa, and Asia, where they terrorized people for centuries. Slavery in the U.S. is a contemporary and ongoing issue, because we did not eliminate the Confederacy thoroughly enough, and we have not treated the descendants of slaves as equal citizens. Imagine if some Muslims celebrated Osama bin Laden day in the U.S., because 9-11 is part of their "heritage", and built statues celebrating bin Laden that they put in city parks. Their celebration is no different than Southerners celebrating their traitorous and terrorist Confederacy with statues and parades. Confederate iconography should be illegal in the U.S., just as Nazi images are illegal in Germany. Your facts about the evil of Islam do not diminish the need to pay reparations in the U.S. to the descendants of African slaves, which was a product of the evil of Christianity and its lapdog, Capitalism. Note the in all cases, a religion was used as an excuse for holding those from another religion as a slave. The lesson is that we need to abolish all religions, because they are the source of evil used to justify slavery. Religion is a disgusting plague that needs to be eliminated.

[@jrbr549]

This is the first time I've heard Hitch make absolutely no sense whatsoever. He's not even addressing the two basic questions: who pays and who gets paid?

[@johnorona99]

Way to broadcast to the world that you missed the point

[@Russyda1]

I wonder why this is the first time u disagree with him lol

[@jrbr549]

@@Russyda1 I don't understand what you are trying to imply. And I definitely don't understand the "lol."

[@JackCarregan]

He is himself making a contradictory argument that for some reason Ancient Greek sculpture should be returned but ancient babylon and ancient Egyptian shouldn’t be? Why can’t he be consistent. And what is the point of trying to pay someone back for something for over 100 years ago or over 500 years or more than 2000 etc. Why doesn’t Britain pay for the atrocities they committed in Greece in the 1100s? Why dont Italians. Pay for the destruction of Britain in the 200 and 300s?

[@bigpanda307]

What did Britain do to Greece in the 1100's?

[@mrcreosote3808]

I don't understand how you can so badly miss his argument, 'don't make the best the enemy of the good', just because you can't right all the wrongs doesn't mean you shouldn't right ones you can. He outright states the babylonians and pharaonic egyptians aren't going to come and make any claims. Its about rectifying the things where there is a relevant claim and it can actually be done.

[@JackCarregan]

@@bigpanda307 the crusades

[@JackCarregan]

@@mrcreosote3808 and my point is that it is logically inconsistent. its not that I am saying that a criminal shouldn't pay back a theft in a single case because not all criminals can pay stuff back. we are talking about history, its more akin to trying to get the great grandchild of robber to pay back the great grandchild of a victim. his singling out of this particular incident is completely arbitrary. And when it comes to museums even in ancient times it was normal to take artifacts from other civilizations and preserve them. Should we return the Rosetta stone? would anyone be able to understand Egyptian culture if that was not taken? (the answer is no). I understand that it is easy to perceive past injustices and try to fix them, but this completely ignores what history is and how things worked in the past.

[@OfficialAzhawk8]

To be perfectly honest, your point here is deeply flawed. The theft of cultural and historical artifacts from Greece by the British is completely different to your example of a robber. The modern states of the UK and Greece are fundamentally the same that existed 150 years ago when these artifacts were taken. Thus there is a real and tangible connection between them. To put it simply, there is a culture that has lost its artifacts that is in a position to demand and house them appropriately. You say that to ignore the Babylonians or Egyptians is to be logically inconsistent but this is clearly not the case. The point being is that the Greek government is in a position to appropriately house and care for those artifacts. There is an existent issue that can easily be remedied without risking historical items. On the other hand, the Babylonians are not in a position to demand their artifacts back and even if they were, they wouldnt fare well in the ruins of Babylon. What is logically inconsistent is your concept that to leave everything as is and make no attempt to confront history is to ignore it. This is the opposite of what history is about. History is inquiring into the past, considering what happened and its consequences on the world then and now. By your logic, we shouldn't have had the Nuremburg trials, as with World War Two over, the injustices against the Jews/Gays/Romanis/Other persecuted groups was in the past and to remedy that issue is to 'ignore history'. Everything you've said is just whataboutery and ignoring the issue at hand. As @Mr Creosote says, its not about righting every wrong or reversing history. Its about righting the wrongs that you can.

[@ilkos853]

how is this poppin in recommended right now :D

[@robertsullivan4773]

Because the subject of reparations has come up again.

[@xdognatex9897]

Are the British going to go back and pay reparations to all the people they colonized? They could start with India.

[@henghistbluetooth7882]

XdognateX Why just the British? Get a good children’s encyclopaedia and read of all the empires since around 6,000bc. Do they all offer reparations or just those that benefited from 19th century technology.

[@xdognatex9897]

@@henghistbluetooth7882 Well I used Britian as an example because he's British.

[@glennbowen]

@@xdognatex9897 Christopher Hitchens was actually English by birth, there is no such thing as 'British' FYI with regards to place of birth.

[@xdognatex9897]

@@glennbowen Did I say anything about place of birth? www.google.com/amp/s/dictionary.cambridge.org/us/amp/english/british

[@glennbowen]

@@xdognatex9897 Yes, you called him 'British', he's English

[@soulfuzz368]

He was such a beautiful speaker and extremely charismatic. That being said, once you really break down what he is saying, there is very little of an actual argument there.

[@itomba]

It was a fairly straightforward moral argument in favor of reparations. Not sure why you would think it unclear. Was there an injustice done? Yes. Do we have the ability and the imperative to address it? Yes.

[@soulfuzz368]

itomba nowhere does he make a case that what can be done, does in fact address the problem at hand.

[@HNedel]

Making the argument that the Rosetta stone is better left at the british museum because more people will see it and there is no direct connection of modern egypt with ancient egypt, while at the same time demanding the return of some greek statue, is morally wrong snd hypocritical. And no, the wrongs of slavery cannot be corrected, you can’t make the descendants of white people who came to america after the civil war pay money to other people whose ancestors were never slaves. And even if you could find only the descendants of slaves and their slave owners, it us still morally and legally wrong to make children pay for the sins of their fathers. Who is going to pay then for the suffering caused by the crusades, or by the islamic conquest of india, persia, or the atrocities of the ottoman empire on the balkans and armenia?

[@bancolino]

@@HNedel You're paying for Jews to have their own country, with a fully formidable military, a nuclear arsenal, at a rate of $10,000 per day. White Americans AND black Americans, had nothing to do with that. But reparations for black Americans is a punishment to you? Make that make sense!

[@HNedel]

@@bancolino no I don't, the us aid to Israel is 3.1 billion per year, which is 10 dollars per person per year. USA is paying more in aid to Iraq and Afghanistan, and a round a billion to Jordan, Ethiopia and Pakistan each. You can have your 10 dollars per year, maybe you can actually buy a pair of Jordans in 30 years.

[@wacharaboy]

"In other words: beware when someone tries to make 'the Best' the enemy of 'the Good'"...

[@jmisc]

yeah especially when the president implies that there are fine people in the neo Nazi group

[@jongbong1912]

@@jmisc watching this entire video, and the points made, and yet you still misrepresent the real quote and context, for shame sir

[@jmisc]

Fine I edited that, are you happy now Trump supporter who are freaking hypocrites, criticizing Obama and Hillary and now pretty much quiet when confronted with Trump’s lies. Why not ask Trump the same thing. Why lie? You are either lying or ignorant. Which is it?

[@jongbong1912]

@@jmisc you could still improve on your edit by just deleting it, you either know you're wrong but still intent on the lie, or just dumb

[@jmisc]

Niall Colbeck get a life you embarrassing piece of shit. I did the edit to make you all happy, and you still sound like a sore loser afraid of facing the truth that the president is a fucking racist and whiny loser. What else do you want to be quoted properly “I don’t take any responsibilities?”

[@kumoyuki]

Hitchens, as always, makes an eloquent case that no one with a shred of moral sensibility could argue with. Certainly I do not know anyone who would disagree, let alone be able to contradict the question of whether reparations should be paid. The difficulty lies entirely within the realm of *HOW*, and I am quite disappointed to see that was not even remotely addressed in this talk.

[@cullenmott7614]

*REPARATIONS: “BACK-PAY. OWED. AND IT’S OVERDUE.”*

[@robertopistone1179]

I agree but the question is to whom. Every person of that era is dead. Do we give reparations to every person of color????

[@cullenmott7614]

@@robertopistone1179 Yes, to every person of color. That era is only half-dead.

[@johnnicol64]

Go see the AFRICANS, who committed the original sin of enslaving them . Easy ...

[@robr9411]

Who, then bears the guilt/responsibility? My ancestors came from Germany around 1890. Am I held responsible for something neither I nor my ancestors had any part in? Hitchens always seems to makes compelling arguments in his remarks (at least philosophically), but we are then left with the practical logistics which remain unclear at best.

[@Mysterywhiteboy78]

The BLM and white liberal left argument that amounts to ' Gibs me dat or I will take yo shit ' is full of more holes than a sinking submarine.

[@daniellemeyer8568]

Estimates are that a very large majority of white americans don't have a single ancestor that owned slaves in America. In addition, a very large majority of black americans don't have a single ancestor that was a slave in America. MOST americans are descended from immigrants that came long after slavery ended.

[@dieselheart001]

To this question I ask but one question back. "Why?" I find it mildly amusing that most slaves arrived here by dint of competing tribes, and now their "children" seem to think it important that there be "reparation" from those who "enslaved" them, here in America. Let them exact reparation from the ones from their Mother country, who sold them to the slavers, and let the original treachery be addressed. In many ways they are able to trace ancestry because of being brought here, than if they had remained in Africa, and ultimately were given the greatest opportunity because of being brought here, compared to their true oppressors who still live in the greatest squalor on the Dark Continent.

[@cheriajohnson]

Who said we're only seeking reparations from one country tho...

[@CousinBowling]

@@cheriajohnson no one deserves reparations. Btw black people are already accepted to college with lower test scores than any other group, receive large amounts of money from government assistance, and get hired at a high rate to meet diversity quotas. Is that not enough?

[@CousinBowling]

@Lasha Rekhviashvili absolutely

[@soinorman]

We've just finished paying the cost of ending the transatlantic slave trade. I sixth of our fleet was dedicated to doing this......Over a thousand British sailors died freeing slaves. Look it up. Not Hitch at his best here.

[@dantheman4838]

Many Germans died trying to overthrow the Nazis and end the war. So does that mean Germany shouldn't have paid war reparations either?

[@rikardschumacher178]

@@dantheman4838 Retribution is an nasty business.

[@BillGreenAZ]

MrPCT007 Blacks were not restricted from any of those things you mention. Many blacks took part in them. Take your fake news elsewhere or you will be exposed even more.

[@BillGreenAZ]

For the first time in recorded human history, one race fought for the freedom of another in the American Civil War. That never happened when whites were capture by blacks or by Moors. Where are reparations for all the deaths of white soldiers?

[@davidjorgensen877]

@@BillGreenAZ Another whiny white guy content to coast freely off the capital built from centuries of slave labour, stolen land, and gender subjugation, believing to his core that somehow HE is the one hard done by. What ooze do you brain-dead slugs crawl out from?

[@WerewolfKweef]

America needs this man so much right now. RIP Christopher.

[@captur69]

And the planet....

[@Longtack55]

"Be assured I am resting as I AM AN ATHEIST!" (Message from the crematorium.)

[@captur69]

@@Longtack55 interesting quote....?..

[@Longtack55]

@@captur69 I was presumptuously projecting through the medium of Imagination. I've seen so many admirers of Hitchens wishing him "RIP" and I'm momentarily apoplectic at the meaninglessness to an Atheist. He's not "resting" - owing to a sudden attack of death. Hitchens' wisdom was imparted universally and The Planet was better for him.

[@captur69]

@@Longtack55 definitely.....death is final.. I never really get the "rip" brigade....

[@Bigfishfun333]

Should reparations be the offering of one-way tickets back to the mother-land that they wish their ancestors had not been removed from? Since America is apparently so bad, and their mother-land is so wonderful?

[@harryrobertson3746]

I'm a big fan of Mr Hitchens, but I think his Elgin argument does not impress at all.

[@josephanastasi7840]

Harry, I am with you on this one. I loved the late great Hitchens, but this one of the rare times he was vague and devious. Generally sharp and to the point, his Elgin analogy was awkward and imprecise. He stated there are some cases where reparation is deserving and the remedy is direct. He implied in other cases damage was undoubtedly done but the avenues for reparations have dissipated through time and circumstances. Elgin analogy offers no remedy just blame.

[@meregaming1770]

Not that I disagree with reparations in principle, but the first six minutes of this video is just adhominem. Not a great showing for such a famous "debater." He did not make an argument for reparations, or describe what shape they would take, just appealed to emotion. Whether people have a guilty conscience or not is not sufficient to dismiss their arguments in a public arena. Very well spoken, but very little substance.

[@meregaming1770]

@Trevor Wilson You mean about the sculpture? That's not relevant to my point.

[@jhljhl6964]

What about the Arab slave trade -- long before the Atlantic Slave Trade?

[@nedlightowlers5168]

What about it? That's their problem and they should debate it. This is a debate in the West about Western slavery which is relevant.

[@writerconsidered]

You just made Hitchens point true. What aboutism is the beginning of bad rationalization. I literally mentioned this very argument in another comment and you proved me right as well.

[@gallaxian]

Hitch begins by saying he is going to make an argument by analogy and proceeds to relate some arguments for and against returning the Elgin Marbles. But he then goes on to repeatedly dismisses his opponents’ analogies with respect to the Marbles and reparations as efforts at distraction that reveal their bad faith. I always enjoy listening to him but this is just sophistry.