Chronicle's Bizarre Retcons and Amazing Reveals! The Tanking Disaster! | War Within WoW News

World of Warcraft The War Within is just hours away from it's prepatch going live, with class changes, warbands, skyriding and the prepatch event all becoming a wow reality at last! But today we want to look at World of Warcraft Chronicle : Volume 4 and some of the bizarre retcons and reveals that it contains. Like completely changing the BFA Kul Tiras and Zandalar timeline for no reason (bad) to confirming the existence of the fifth Old God for War Within (good).
We also round up the latest War Within Beta news including the mystery new login screen for War Within, and take in the drama regarding Blizzard's new Tank changes... are tanks doomed in War Within?
► Let's make the Red Spoiler Bot Plushie happen!
www.makeship.c...
► Wowhead Articles
New War Within Login Screen Coming in Future?
www.wowhead.co...
New Titles for Achievements in The War Within - Anub, The Bountiful and More
www.wowhead.co...
The Clarifications and Changes in Chronicle Volume 4
www.wowhead.co...
Upcoming Tank Tuning in The War Within - Nerfs to Self Sustain and Survivability
www.wowhead.co...
► Our Second Channel: / @taliesinevitelchannel2
► Twitch: / taliesinandevitel
► Taliesin & Evitel Twitter: / taliesinevitel
► Taliesin & Evitel Patreon: / taliesinandevitel
► T&E Merchandise: taliesin-evite...

[@narril]

"Anub'Ook" is the best joke ever told by anyone ever, with a guild name that sounds a bit like Immortails

[@infantryplankton]

I know right? I dont even think she meant it but we knew.

[@therethan-family1234]

If we get a 5th old god, I hope he has some connection to Stonetalon Mountians. - Some NPC's say that there is an "ancient evil" somewhere beneath the mountains and in the peaks, some old god minions are breaking through. - There is this mystical cave of the oracle where Jaina and Thrall met Mediv. This cave had many different relicts of different cultures and an unknown goddess named "Azune". This cave currently doesn't exist in WoW. - This is one of the zones more connected to the Grimtotem-Tauren whose allegiance has always been "not quite elements" and "not quite void". This could bring Magatha Grimmtotem back into the story and maybe even somewhat explain Kurog Grimmtotem's actions.

[@POTATOEMPN]

Greetings, fellow Loremaster. I see your journeys have led you to many wonders. Ghostlands is hiding secrets nobody has made a video about. Ungoro Crater is the most important zone on Azeroth to date...and the Crystalsong Forest is the answer to what ails us.

[@Nagria2112]

my guess is lorderon. because of geometry on the globe. Stonetalon mountain´killer (aka. the Socal Lady Killer) could be added xP

[@artimusofthemoon2419]

its probably Xalatath

[@sepsam4556]

Yes I was so disappointed to not see Magatha as a primalist leader in DF. She would've been an incredible villain and could have brought a more interesting dynamic to the tauren. Baine is such a snoozefest.

[@BriGuy77711]

Why can't Blizz just send a draft copy of the newest Chronicle to Nobbel to proofread? He'd get most of this spotted straight away.

[@Cashinn_Outt1754]

Hire him as the new Historian

[@POTATOEMPN]

Naw, fuck this guy. Send all the lore to that Red Shirt Guy. He is the Grand Lord of Lore.

[@DrDrystal]

makes me wonder if that was Metzens doing trying to break Danussers BFA..but why? I prefer Metzen over Danuser, but changing BFA that way is just a pointless mess..

[@Frankthegb]

Because he’s stupid lol

[@Necrodoge]

Edit: thanks for the gold kind stranger

[@MrMurk101]

the a nu book pun was well played

[@pDalleDq]

Having Evitel back makes these so enjoyable to watch, not that they weren't in the first place but she definitely adds some extra spice :D

[@DainnGreywall]

Why does Evi say Vizier in such a weird way? Wait... am I saying Vizier the wrong way?

[@burgers5675]

Nah it's supposed to be like Vih-zeer

[@UltimateGamerCC]

she's saying it the French way when it's simply "Vizeer".

[@TaliesinEvitel]

No you're right, I said it wrong, I panicked and my brain went, "wait how do I say this again? when in doubt, make it sound fancy" XD

[@DainnGreywall]

@@TaliesinEvitel All too relatable.

[@PsychKenn23]

@@TaliesinEvitel You said it in a fancy enough way that I will call that NPC the fancy form of Vizier the whole expansion.

[@Lupinemancer87]

I know it's a meme at this point (at least I hope it is) but Thrall never cheated, even before Chronicles Vol. 4 came out. There are no rules against the use of magic in a Mak'gora so Thrall using it was well within the rules. Besides, he also used magic in the previous duel between him and Garrosh right before WotLK.

[@johannessimola1615]

There was a manga/comic were there were a mak'gora and in that magic were one of the weapons you could choose and mak'gora only allowes one weapon also orgrimmar citizens said sylvanas cheated in The mak'gora against varok Because she used magic. and lastly mak'gora one rule still stands no armor wearing allowed and thrall had shit ton of armor there while garrosh had pants. Thrall cheated here atleast on having armor as only other mak'gora which didn't require taking of the armor was besides ingame issues was sylvanas vs varok and that would have gone well to Make HD bikini sylvanas close to blizzards court cases with sexual harrasment.... Also on prepatch wotlk point ingame they couldn't strip the characters and thrall used magic to interupt the duel as scourge attacked.

[@monkeysk8er33]

Thrall absolutely cheated. A Mok'gora is simply: no armor, one weapon. Magic is cheating. If one side has magic, and the other does not, it's not honorable. Mok'gora's are pure honor battles. If you choose to go in without a weapon, that's fine, but using magic as your "one weapon" is bullshit, and it's cheating. Thrall fucked up. Garrosh called him out midfight, and that's why Thrall cheated. Garrosh made Thrall feel like a failure.

[@UltimateGamerCC]

then how about we get an explanation for why Thrall has ED??

[@TomatoBisque]

@@UltimateGamerCC because he doesn't believe he's worthy. He made Garrosh warchief and then fucked off

[@monkeysk8er33]

@@UltimateGamerCC Oh boy, I'm going to assume by ED, you mean "elemental disfunction" - a fun play on words. He cheated in his Mok'gora with Garrosh, so the elements abandoned him. It's pretty straightforward, and was explained in-game a long time ago.

[@MrLightingGeek]

Whenever I'm feeling a little down, I can fire up the Weekly Reset and hear Tali say "Taliesin and Evitel's Wonderous Wisdomshow" and I smile.

[@Clankio]

Literally had to pause the video and chuckle at the "Anub Ook" joke. Well played, Evi xP

[@Zaraknazh]

too bad hozen aren't playable. would be perfect

[@lovelylych7643]

I love hearing someone else be a big fan of BFA! Especially the Alliance side of the story was absolutely fabulous storytelling and got me enthralled all the way through.

[@moscanaveia]

I'm Horde for life, but I do agree BfA was a neat lil' xpac.

[@NotSeregnar]

Dangit, the Anub'Ook joke got me! Would be a perfect name for a playable Hozen character!

[@GeargutzMekshop]

Just pointing it out now, long before its confirmed. But the shape of the Exposed underground zone does not match up with the current zones. My guess? When we get the undermine update, One of the walls will break and The new underground shape will match the exposed underground World map shape.

[@jirikrkoska1755]

Uhh...as long as the tanks are going to usainbolt through the dungeon without even looking at other players, then sorry, they need changes

[@j.a.1785]

💯 agree

[@AndrewYuniar]

Lol

[@mothman84]

If they're gonna make tanks less tanky, also without changing the fact that the community expects the same miracles of the tanks, then _sorry_ you're gonna be sitting twice as long in every queue waiting for a tank. 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 DPS, you ever wonder why 1 is consistently harder to find than 3???

[@jirikrkoska1755]

@@mothman84 I don´t know man. I just don´t see the tanks being under so much pressure. My definition of a miracle tank is not "usainbolt through dungeon". Miracle tank knows how to tank, sees who is following and who cant keep up, notices when healer needs to drink and feels whether the healer can heal bigger fights. I will gladly sit two, hell even three times longer for this. Also, healer here. But lets see what the expansion really brings. I know that I will enjoy it either way :)) Cheers! :)

[@miriamweller812]

You mean absolutely overgearead tanks? Why not just massively cut DPS, eh? Would make it a lot harder. Also cut all self healing of damage dealer, not tank cooldowns, nothing, They do damage, that's it. Boss doing aoe damage? Too bad, all DD die if there is no healer around. Games already got massive tank lacks, absolutely retarded idea to make this worse.

[@Joe-pm9xv]

In pvp the tank nerf and healer buff makes it so dps not hitting a defensive doesn't mean their death

[@MrToastyTank]

When it comes down to the tank situation, I think that all of the changes are perfectly fine other than the rework to blood death knight because it fundamentally changes the entire theme of the class and brings it in line more with shield block it literally says it in the blue post word-for-word and this just makes it a worse tank then a Warrior because it can't kite with heroic leap. Death knights get hit harder by physical damage, which also is in the blue post, they're also increasing physical DMG while decreasing massive magic DMG in dungeons, which goes against the death knight Based on them Being weaker to physical damage and stronger to magical damage, and when you really peel back the changes to the death knight you find that they are nerfed in 4 or 5 different levels of nuclear devastation. As for the other classes, I think they're fine, but they need to take a bit more time working on blood death knights. It's the extremely short time constraints that scare me, and the fact that all of the professional mythic plus elite players are talking about due to a lot of the content still being over tuned needing to implement kiting at higher rates which death knights are also extremely poor at.

[@n5r15]

16:27 Holy shit, did you just reference Homeward Bound? HOW FUCKING OLD ARE WE!?

[@DrDrystal]

we are old, we really are

[@deployed246]

Once again, even though Y'shaarj was not chained like the other three Old Gods we've encountered, they _did_ chain his heart beneath Pandaria in the exact same way that they did the others (even though C'thuun doesn't get the same treatment in-game since they were still fleshing out Old God lore when he was added). Yes, the Heart of Y'Shaarj was not chained has deeply or guarded as fiercely as Yogg-Saron or N'Zoth, but as we know, the Pantheon of Order and various Watchers are inclined to exaggerate their achievements in order to make themselves look more competent than they actually are, meaning that the writers of these in-universe lore books will be inclined to claim that chaining an Old God's heart in on par with chaining an entire Old God.

[@PsychKenn23]

Good points. I would argue though that before they went rogue the Mogu were hell bent on keeping the entire Vale of Eternal Blossoms safe. It was a huge stronghold of theirs. Sure they may not have known why they were told to keep it safe but they had a presence there for sure until they went and got twisted by the Thunder King.

[@Platxx]

So i think the Beta build info is a progression title screen, since the main story is account wide, you probably now unlock a new screen based on your accounts progress. And this screen we can see atm is just a static starter screen that everyone will have until they complete something in the war within

[@roguexwitch]

Something about the way this went from Tali to Evi back and forth a little quicker made this much more enjoyable 😅 Oh and that Anub Ook joke was perfection!

[@UnNotAnon]

The Blood DK changes completely take the class fantasy of being self-sufficient out of the equation. It’s going to feel so bad to be *punished* for saving my runic power for a big spike of damage.

[@720vii]

Thanks again you two. You both bring me so much joy with your videos. Hard to find it these days with all the stuff that’s going on in the US.

[@thickums8198]

Anub'Ook absolutely sent me off of this plane of existence and right into BFA's messed up timeline

[@Wyrmshield]

Ooh I love the new door in your office, with the old god stained glass

[@ub3rfr3nzy94]

The five old gods was first mentioned in the Warcraft 3 game manual before WoW even came out.

[@jennick214]

Anub’ook sent me into a fit, comedy gold. Watch out Tali, Evi’s in the zone

[@spclifford74]

About the login screen issue (and if it's boring or not) when I first saw it, I just assumed at some point the 'rocky' central bit of the portal would be punched through and then you'll see beyond it - so, those data mined assets that's been spotted, would be appearing in the centre.

[@chchzuzia]

Regarding the Chronicle blurghs, I agree with Bellular when he said that Blizzard cutting their lore historians and good writers (such as Christie Golden), really paved the way for the myriad problems of volume 4. (Also, I'm really happy to hear that someone else loves BFA! massively under-rated expansion).

[@miriamweller812]

Bellular is the standard youtube troll who is going for views with content for crybabies = drama. It's ridiculous with what garbage they come up with, while praising actual garbage writing like that of FF14, that was shit from the start and just got worse with every expansion, borderline ZERO world building, just bad copy/paste from other FF games, without any care to make it fit and since SB so lazy that the main chars including the player are just invincible Mary Sues who win by writers turning the antagonists into idiots who just fight and die for zero reason. Since SB you don't even see the protagonsita have any kind of plan beside just storming in and hitting that ultra high tech empire with hypersonic mini nuke launchers or the gods of magic who can pretty much do anything they want into the face - what of course works, because as said, they are just all braindead, since the lazy and greedy company Square just does not care to put in and effort. THAT'S shit writing and I haven't even started with the real big problems. Meanwhile Blizzard build a giant lore with sheer endless details, with all things working togethers and you crybabies come around and just make up shit - that most of the time ist just plain wrong - to cry about.

[@snowliger]

7:05 Asset missing!! Asset missing!

[@RainingMetal]

In addition to the blatant contradictions with the entire Kul Tiras storyline taking place before anything Horde-related in Zandalar, the book seems to point out that the Horde War campaign takes place before the Zandalari quests, whereas the level requirements are the reverse when playing in Zandalar (the War Campaigns are unlocked at post-Shadowlands squish level 35 while the BFA zones are, by default, set to a minimum level of 10, 20, and 30 for each province). It's some serious bogus written by someone who hadn't even casually played the BFA experience.

[@miriamweller812]

It's entertainment, kid. Not science. Hell, you people must hate pretty much ALL fiction, because 99,99% of it is WAY worse regarding lot holes and alike than WoW. It's actually fascinating how they manage to keep things together like that over such a long time. You can DESTROY borderline EVERY fiction. Star Wars? Even the original are utter garbage regarding plot holes. All that superhero stuff? They just redo stuff as they want and change and ignore things as they like. 99% of movies are a plot hole fest, more hole than movie.

[@lolour4571]

I think another problem with the whole tank situation that we should consider is the fantasy of playing the role of a tank. Playing as a dps, your role fantasy revolves around inflicting damage and the quality/amount of that damage you inflict ultimately mainly revolves around how good of a player you are. The duration for which you inflict damage is subject to the actions of your healer and tank sure, but how good of a dps you are is in your hands alone. On the other hand, playing as a tank, your role fantasy revolves around controlling your ennemies and most importantly, surviving the onslaught. Now if we follow the philosophy blizzard is going towards with these recent change, it creates a role where you could do your absolute best, playing like the tank handpicked by the gods themselves and still die because now wether or not you survive an encounter (the main part of your role fantasy and gameplay) is not up to your own skill anymore. In other words, the fulfillement of your role fantasy, unlike all other roles, is not completely in your hands anymore. (Which is awfully unfun)

[@stormysteph1998]

Great episode, class guides almost ready by any chance?

[@TaliesinEvitel]

Hoping to have a couple ready this week and next! 🤞

[@Nagria2112]

As a healer i LOVE the changes. we are healers, we should heal - but today i only do damage because the tank is self sufficient and everyone has enough lifesteal and a quick self heal to get by. i want to play heal again and not dd.... these changes will allow me to do this again.... Tanks need heal again and as far as i know they also changed healing and lifesteal cap.

[@snazzydrew]

As a Prot Pally, I usually just use my extra heals on my part because it's so hard for me to actually die.

[@Relhio]

Then quit being a casual and go do some freaking mythic plus, you'll be wishing you had any freaking time to deal any damage... Of course people are going insane about such changes, because healers can barely keep up with the incoming damage in most affixes in higher keys. Nobody cares about what people feel in heroic dungeons, they're just trials and meant to be facerolled. You don't completely obliterate the balance because your casual audience is falling asleep at their keyboard, it's up to them to ENGAGE with the more difficult content. Go do a mythic +28 key and then let me know how much of that dps you were able to do and realize how insane nerfing tanks is.

[@Nagria2112]

@@Relhio no. i dont like timers. have fun playing under a timer. i will not. i dont mind haqrd fights at all. i beat darksouls 1-3 and eldenring. i just dislike arbitrary limits like time or deaths. and second to that. Devs should never design a game for the 1% that do m+20.....

[@snazzydrew]

@@Relhio plus wasn't fun to push super high in the past imo unless I had a static of at least 4 people. Even then that 5th random has a high chance of making me feel like I'm wasting my time. 😭

[@andrewshandle]

@@Relhioyes, let's use what happens in a +28 key to balance the game, fantastic idea.

[@TVUsedToBeGood]

Love the Outer Wilds music in the background :)

[@Dadbot]

The in game note says that the pantheon did indeed chain FIVE evil gods 7:39

[@UltimateGamerCC]

Evi has a character called Ook, but we aint got Hozen.. or Jinyu for that matter. imagine that we could have gotten those through Remix, since we know the fate of their races end up rather depleting most of them over the war in Pandaria, Eternus could've given us a means to save them from extinction to where they join us in the present, wanting to fight alongside us for saving their races... i mean even though we kinda spearheaded that result to begin with, but they dont know that...

[@MehervanSingh]

I have played a tank main since TBC. Ive tested most of the tanks before and after the changes except for Brewmaster as I just dont play that. My quick summary other than just a bit less self-healing: Warrior not much difference, Druid not much difference, DH not much difference, DK not much difference, Pally a bit squishy but honestly not much difference (if they could just add a bit more armour and a tad bit more passive mitigation it will be good to go). No big deal for the most part but they could improve the pathing for the talents for most of the tanks to ensure we get the essential skills while having not just the most essential talents but with more options for fun talents.

[@md-sl1io]

it does say towards the end that 'nzoth, the last old god on azeroth was killed' so if theres another one its just not on azeroth at all maybe in the dream or on the moon

[@vladagast]

Am I the only one bothered by that crack in the Tali's coffee mug?

[@moscanaveia]

I only noticed because you said something 🤭

[@Runic-Raven]

I absolutely agree on the changes on Tanks. Healing atm is either doing damage the whole time when you have a good tank or panic healing the whole time when you have a bad Tank. Also: Blood DK's outhealing every Healer at a certain point of gearlevel is just rediculous.

[@MrCarlWax]

If they showed how much prot pala and warrior mitigated in the healing section of details would that also make you want them to be nerfed too? Blood DKs whole ginmick is self healing through damage instead of heavy mits. The person taking all direct damage throughout an entire dungeon and whos gimmick is self healing does more healing than the healer who only heal occational aoe and rot damage? Crazy.

[@Spigy88]

​@@MrCarlWax the purpose of group content is that you need the group. Tanks have different ways of dealing with damage but they should never NOT need a healer. That is the whole point of the Trinity.

[@miriamweller812]

@@Spigy88 No, it's not, because group content means that you got more than just the tank to heal. And if the tank needs no heal at all, then you are simply in way to low level content for your gear.

[@sharkstaint1373]

@@Spigy88 now not only they need a healer , but they also need jesus , go look at prot paladins and warrios druids and dh , u lad give ur opinion with a surface view , u didn't even try and see how bad the change is , if u see tank nerfs , you'll be like " yeah sound fine they take more damage now its ok" not its not , we take 4 times df damage , its not even fun playing it anymore , nobody likes to be training dummy being spoonfed by a healer , and if the healer is also clueless rip puging , if a tank dies everything else does , its so critical , but if a dps dies its not gonna matter a lot and the run is gonna be playable , im not gonna waste 30 min if my life griding and disbanding the party cause the healer is not that good to keep up eveyone , imagine this , your a person irl depending financially on a random guy to pay off your rent , and at any moment the guy can go bankrupt , tanks were fine in df , should never touched , sure nerf them a bit but not murder them.

[@petemagyar1445]

@@Spigy88 well blizz killed your precious trinity with aug so.......

[@mattwo7]

BfA's Horde and Alliance campaigns ran around the same time as each other and this book is saying they happened in sequence? That's not how anything works. The Bronze Dragonflight has a real mess on their hands here.

[@Junebug89]

As someone who plays all three roles, I think the goals stated for the tank changes do make some sense. It is a little silly that as a healer, I can often completely ignore a tank and there won't be an issue. I would contrast this with the last time I played prior to dragonflight season 3, which was shadowlands season one, which was objectively awful. Whether I trust them to achieve these goals in such a short time is another matter altogether.

[@Belliara]

Loved how much fun Evitel had with the Anub title :)

[@vaethe_w]

I wonder how many people closed the video when tali said "red bot spoiler bot" and have no idea about the gofundme

[@chestersayuri2246]

I laught more at the A nu b ook joke then i should have ... loved it

[@louisstudden6609]

in french « un invalide » means somehow that is too sick or injured to work. The returning soldiers from WWI, that were deformed or sickened by war were referenced as « les invalides ». Maybe invalidus could be some sort of deformed sickened creature, maybe it could inflict illness through void. Thought it could be a cool idea.

[@moscanaveia]

In Brazil a disabled person is called "inválido" too. While the whole disease gimmick would be nice, the name still kind of implies the Void Lord himself might be disabled, so it remains iffy in my opinion 😂

[@austinhawkins3307]

"Delvers...thats what we call them, right?" Not with the hard R, you gotta say Delvas.

[@christabelle__]

As a lifelong healer main...the tank 'nerf' makes sense. The healer is there to heal - and primarily the tank, the focus of most of the damage. If a tank takes no healing, the healer becomes redundant. That means the tank has too much mitigation. It's...pretty easy to understand, considering I've mained both roles. DPS needed a little more survivability in the old days, and I'm glad they all tend to have a little defense and heals for spot healing themselves. And Homeward Bound...perfect reference... and I lost track of time! War Within pre-patch SO SOON?! I'm still enjoying my Dawntrail 'vacation'...

[@miriamweller812]

Last thing you want as a healer is even more stress. It's ridiculous to make things worse, with already such a lack of healers AND even more tanks.

[@randomaccount-dq1jq]

Part of me hopes that Draenor actually did have a World Soul and that Drek'Thar took the soul into himself or some item to protect it from the legion and we get some major Drek'thar storyline soon, dudes way more interesting that green jesus.

[@robertsmith4830]

Tanks should not be significant damage dealers - let them focus on threat retention and keeping everyone else safe.

[@mothman84]

That's not what the changes are about. I would agree with the tank doing ZERO damage. The changes are about the tank becoming more squishy, less tanky, and somehow being expected to be happy about it.

[@LeCaptRage]

​​@@mothman84I mean, if the state of tanking make healers less relevant, I dont see why the nerf shouldn't happen ? I mostly do pvp nowadays, but in s3 I was at like 2700 IO and when I had a good tank, I didn't even needed to heal them.

[@mothman84]

​@@LeCaptRage Because healers are not less relevant. And if you want to make them more relevant at the expense of others, why then not nerf DPS defensives and healthpools too - so healers need to heal _everybody?_ Armchair tanks always say tanks are overpowered, and yet, somehow, most queues are pending in wait for tanks or healers, never in wait for damage dealers. And by nerfing tanks, everyone else's queues only get longer and longer. If tanking is so effing easy, why isn't the game full of tanks struggling to find a spot in parties? When you have a tank you don't need to heal, that's evidence that you're not pushing hard enough. Go higher, you'll find a challenge for your golden fingers, you'll meet the mathematical boundaries of the game if you go high enough.

[@LeCaptRage]

@@mothman84 Because tanking is extremely boring for most people and it's not fun having an unkillable machine that you almost ignore healing wise. Yes I think tank should get nerf if it makes healers less relevant in high end content. Also if tanks are less brocken they will have more fun. I assume its more fun since they can't just tank and spank 2-3 groups of mobs and take almost no damage.

[@brianstevenson6093]

I agree. Soak damage, there’s 3 other players to just do damage.

[@scanGfu]

It would be so cool if the delve Harbinger would say: "Releasing Control" when you kill him.

[@mattwo7]

14:00 "Tanks have become incredibly durable relative to non-tank characters" has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. And that is saying quite a bit frankly. I get the point here but that sentence was extraneous at best and just adding fuel to the fire of the discourse at worst.

[@xanderellem3646]

This might be a hot take, but I think tanks have needed a nerf for a long time. Tanks are stupid OP, they do like 70%+ the damage of a dps more than 100% in Aoe, often out heal healers and have dozens of times the survivability of dps. I'm honestly shocked that 20 tanks isn't the mythic raiding meta.

[@DerikDeLong]

If the tank is doing 70% of your DPS in a raid situation, that's a commentary on the DPS. If you don't understand why 20 tanks wouldn't work in mythic, you don't understand tanks and the conditions required to do decent DPS.

[@christabelle__]

@@DerikDeLong IQ so low the joke flew right over your head. Poor thing.

[@xanderellem3646]

@DerikDeLong you're right I don't understand tanks very well, I've never tanked but I know a dps doing 800k and a tank doing 600k given the difference in survivability between the 2 roles is fucked.

[@Nagria2112]

@@DerikDeLong yes i understand your statment but it still not fun as DD or healer to see tanks guys going high on the dps meter Healing meter and damage negation meter. they dominate everything.

[@kamikuru4014]

@@Nagria2112 True, healers need to shut up for once.

[@kennethschroeder]

Wait, couldn't those files for the login be talking about the warband screens?

[@mrspidey80]

I love how Thrall cheating/not cheating at the Mak'Gora has become WoW's "Han shot first".

[@michaelcleveland9298]

If tanking becomes less fun (i.e. less powerful) then there will be less tanks.

[@mothman84]

Yes, they know. That's why they're doing it, so M+ pugs are finally a thing of the past, and we all play delves - otherwise we would keep doing keys and not bother with the new thing.

[@TheAnax]

I thought the 5th Old God is the one at the Darkmoon Faire, no?

[@allviper]

I understand and doing the changing to tanks healing themselves, Doing it this way effects solo players. When a group goes into a dungeon( Only in a group) self-healing debuf pops up. Because that would only affect rates and challenges only. And effect on solo players people try to solo a raid or dungeon.

[@stevenokey7052]

The BFA retcons over alliance campaign before horde to me makes a better story that isn't designed for gameplay. The alliance doing a bunch of stuff with kul tiras making the horde nervous so they free ashvane and wanting a naval entity as well go to free Talanji and Zul to make peace with the Zandalari. Cause in the game the reasons they do alot of their choices like teaming with zandalar/kul tiras kinda just seems like a "because, we added these new allied races"

[@Blood_Ronin]

I tested a few tanks on the beta. Brew feels really good. Prot Warrior feels about the same. Sadly the prot tree had almost no updates since DF, so same build as before. Prot paladin feels like a piece of wet paper waiting to be torn. Blood DK feels really odd in a bad away.

[@schippes24]

6:35 blizz be like "we got rid of n'zoth way too easy and way too fast - he was supposed to be like a whole expansion. quickly, red con another oldgod into existence!"

[@somestrangescotsman]

There's more than 5 old gods. The book referred only to the evil old god, implying good ones also exist.

[@tmanook]

The next expansion looks fun. Problem: why doesn't purchasing the next expansion come with 30 days of game time. Gah.

[@BattleF08]

It should be noted that the book also refers to G'huun as an Old God several times. Which may be a simpler explanation. However the Blade of the Black Empire does seem designed to drain the essence of an Old God. If it trapped Xal'atath within, that's also promising for perhaps N'Zoth's essence surviving. That said, given her tendency towards betrayal, and this being a priestly or sacrificial weapon, she could also have been a high priest to an Old God. With her first betrayal being that of her Master, with this blade designed to seal a Void Entity.

[@Cobatsart]

I think the tank changes could be overall good for the game....if the balancing of the encounters, healers, tanks and classes in general is done right. The main reason healers were getting left out of dungeons in specific niche scenarios is because of how powerful DPS defensives and off-healing had become, not because tanks had become self-reliant, but scaling back on everyone's tankiness could help make healers feel more useful to a group. The issue is that there's barely any time left before the game goes live and blizzard historically can take an entire season or two, if not even longer, to get balance into a state where its not absolutely awful. These changes in design and philosophy are too drastic to be happening this late into development, and I'm very worried season 1 of TWW is going to be screwed because of it.

[@cara3566]

As someone who RPs in a Kul tiran guild, we are all deeply frustrated by this. Like…. Just why?

[@Aerisot]

I feel referenced when he said "A Gate to an actual adventure"

[@oneman9620]

What blizzard thinks will happen: Tank dies in a dungeon, everybody will blame the healer! What will actually happen: More panic for tanks who already manage a lot, and if they die they will still be blamed or there will be finger pointing between tank and healer and the dps won’t know who is right. Also if the tank dies it really really sucks for everyone involved.

[@JPLOWMAN2]

Much as I would love a red bot spoiler plushy in my life, isn’t it based off of an ingame asset? That would technically make it based off of Blizzard’s intellectual property, which would mean you guys could get in legal trouble for making a profit off of it, or am I missing something?

[@shibii]

I think the login screen is like the one in Sea of Stats. It’s either gated on community progression like world first raid or player’s own progression.

[@alexguisado5046]

Thank god we'll have Anub' Ackground for the login screen, because the one we had is boring AF.

[@Wyrmshield]

Thank god for a second log in screen

[@Haalaine]

Disclaimer: I haven't tried Beta since the Tank changes were pushed out. I'm a Blood DK main, and the playstyle of the spec has meshed with me in a way no other tank has, and I feel I'd enjoy the game much less if Blood DK wasn't in it. My concern with the changes isn't so much with the changes being done themselves, but with the philosophy and phrasing Blizzard's using about the tank changes, because it makes it seem like Blizzard is interested in making Blood DK less unique and more similar to the other tanks. I don't know if there's a way of making the role balance healthy without doing that, and I'm not saying the changes aren't necessary or good, but I do know that I think the game would lose something unique and special if it removes the unique self-sustain, mitigation through healing playstyle Blood DK has and I wish Blizzard would be clear if they're going to try and maintain that or not amidst this philisophical shift of theirs.

[@MyHogs]

6 old gods one got eaten, one got removed and the other 4 got imprisoned?

[@roninhare9615]

Chronicle has always been written from a specific narative, like the pantheon from the older chronicle books, the inconsistency’s or rewriting of lore from book 4 is just that, someone else’s perspective. It’s not a over all narrative lore book, it’s not a book that is just spitting out lore, but someone’s view of how the lore is, or how they want it to be conveyed. This is especially handy for those who like to manipulate the truth. If you control the past, you can dictate the future. As for the 5th old god. You said vanilla wow is the first time it’s mentioned there are 5 old gods, however if you read the Warcraft 3 hand book and its lore within, it says 5 old gods, thus predating vanilla. Also, your except on xal’atath being a remnent of an old god that had consumed it within. Well what do you see in the mural? Faceless ones and narubian’s walking into the kraken faced old gods mouth, they’re being consumed. Also, if you look at that old god in the top right photo from book 3, you can see this kraken faced old god is wrapped in roots/vines…. Roots that we are finding deep beneath Kaz’Algar…. The same roots we see in the cinematic being manipulated by that dancing troll-elf being. I have a theory that this 5th old god, this kraken faced old god, is modeled off and inspired from the lovecraftian being known as Cthylla, also known as The Kraken or The Secret One. all of the other 4 old gods are voiced by male voice actors, and if they take the inspiration, this 5th old god could be voice by a female voice actor. This forgotten old god, imo is the real voice of Azeroth everyone is hearing, and why Aleria doesn’t trust it, and why she is hearing other voices. This same female voice is the one magni heard, the king of diamonds will be made a pawn. We’re not really hearing Azeroth, she is still asleep, and this radient song is the old gods…. Which is why locust walker said this is the same song he heard on Keresh before it fell. All of our acts in bfa were to disable Sargaras’s sword… but what if I told you the sword wasn’t really hurting the planet so much as hiring the void/shadow/old gods…. Sargaras’s sword is a direct depiction of the Warcraft rpg sword he welded called Goribal, the dark seether, seether means to boil…. Thus the sword was boiling the void/shadow/old gods from the planet…. Likely because the sword is actually deep enough to pierce the roots deep within the planet…. The same roots that the old gods have wrapped themselves so deeply too. We stopped the sword from doing what sargaras intended, freeing us from the void/shadow/old gods once and for all, this old god, tricked us into stopping it, it made us believe that it was hurting Azeroth herself, but no it was hurting the old gods and their plans… we were all made a pawn… so come midnight, we will have to find a way to reactivate the sword, as it was sargaras last gift to us…. Our salvation against the void/shadow/old gods.

[@andrewshandle]

Tanks complaining that they aren't completely self sufficient is very short sighted and I'm surprised by some of the videos that have come out from people who are generally quite reserved claiming this might destroy the expansion (looking at Quazii in particular). Tanks being completely unkillable isn't good for the game.

[@mothman84]

Might Quazii, the greatest tank Sensei to all the rest of us, to all the normal tanks you'll ever play with, just know what he's talking about? I wonder.

[@andrewshandle]

@@mothman84 he made his video before even trying the changes.

[@mothman84]

@@andrewshandle The video was a reaction to a blue post, which is out there, explicitly asking players for feedback. Quazii gave feedback on the text, that's out there for everyone to read. I would freely agree with you, as would Quazii, that before testing the actual release we don't know how it feels. I would even go further and say that, if they just had NOT published the blue post, perhaps we would have found it normal to be much weaker at the start of an expansion - that's what usually happens, to a large extent. But they did illustrate their game philosophy, their plan, and did explicitly ask for feedback.

[@andrewshandle]

@@mothman84 devs asked for feedback after testing the changes. The devs DID NOT ask for a rage bating, reaction video claiming the expansion was ruined. Quazii always seems to pride himself on being a voice of reason, but when it came to the role he is playing not being unkillable he turned into "WHY IS BLIZZARD KILLING THE GAME!!!" without even testing it first. Don't defend that kind of behavior, even if you enjoy his videos (as I generally do).

[@mothman84]

@@andrewshandle There's nothing to defend, if you like being silly, have fun with that. The next time someone tells you, in writing, "Hey, we want to put _salt_ in your coffee, that's a fun idea we had, _what do you think about that?"_ as intellectually consistent as you are, you will know you absolutely must taste it first, before you uh... rage bait (?), and dare to say, "Gosh, dude, I dunno, it's YOUR coffee shop, ok, but I'm pretty sure that's gonna make my coffee SALTY, if you add salt..."

[@ob1quixote]

"I think we can all agree, this is _much_ better!" 😂😂🤣

[@Darkfiretiger]

I mean with as much time travel that gets done it doesn't shock me that they might play with that and change some things, also isn't chronicle written as an in world document so it's possible that things have been intentionally left out depending on the author's intention, although the stockade break out is probably a mistake and hopefully they change that.

[@skyfiredraco]

Been tanking since 2005. Started as a 31/5/15 warrior. Mained a prot pally since BC. Have a guardian druid, blood dk and vengeance DH and prot warrior at max (along with pally). Only one i've never done much with is brewmaster. I've been there for feast and famine across every class and spec lol. Not stopping now :P

[@Noyb266]

Does anyone else feel like the expansion isn’t really about to drop?

[@mothman84]

That's because it isn't. We've been talking about it for a year already, it's already old news, and there are still five whole weeks of obsessive, repetitive advertising to go.

[@EyeKahnography]

I will say I have ordered from Makeship before (to get my emotional support demon) and the quality is super nice. Looking forward to my Red Spoiler Bot arriving when we can order it. Cheers, and great idea. As for the Tanks news? I'm torn as I main a resto Shaman, and second a Vengeance DH so Yay but also, I suppose as tanks we'll just have to return to the 'get good' phase. We've adjusted before, we'll do it again. I look forward to having things to DO in dungeons as a healer that are healer related again

[@shaundylavoie8064]

shut up mate. you linking to a Quazii's video? That's awesome! Glad to see my 2 favorite content creators teaming up ! btw, your interview with him was great.

[@hang10wannabe]

As a healer in M+, tanks tended to almost match me in healing and there are tons of encounters where tanks can just solo bosses when I accidentally die.

[@mothman84]

@@hang10wannabe You haven't been pushing high enough, then. And now you never will. First, you'll be waiting twice as long to form each group. Then, you'll be _accidentally_ dying in your +3s and +4s even more than you did before, and everybody else will _necessarily_ die now, so they'll bitch at you more than before and disband. That'll be fun for you. 🤣🤣🤣

[@TheNekokuma]

The 'Holy Trinity' jokes were masterful and they just kept coming

[@lord_pamperin4233]

15:22 should tanks not just only have a lot of health and defenses and not a single self heal and the only way to be healed is by a healers?

[@Eroll-dw8ex]

Blizzard need to speak up about this mess of a book

[@adeliusgaming]

would be awesome that they change all the healers to supporters, and give to all the classes and spec the healing properties like lost ark and the tank can do all of that, would be more simple to form groups

[@cris_heals]

I kinda like the tank changes- as a healer… having to worry about dpsing instead of healing was kinda not fun.

[@mothman84]

Then you'd feel more involved if you had to heal the whole party a lot more, not just the tank. Right? Solving a healer's identity crisis, if it can't be done by changing the healer, should be done at the expense of everyone, not just tanks. Especially since the greatest part of the job you gradually lost is in fact due to damage dealers becoming more self-sufficient, not tanks.

[@Soulebreaker]

Invalidus reminds me of Darth Insidius. 😆

[@CBiskutt]

we need to get a pre-sundering azeroth expansion.

[@markeschen]

"There are four lights!" - J.L.P.

[@Gleamings]

Tali makes a really good point: ironically, it's making it harder for people to get into tanking when they know that its their fault when theyre dying. So paradoxically, distributing the responsibility of the tank to stay alive might make it a little more chill for people to get into it!

[@mothman84]

Sure, cause it's gonna work out just like that. When the tank dies for having to do the same job with weaker tools, now everyone will become nice and understanding and supportive and happy, cause, hey, *we know it's the healer's failure now...* The days of the ordinary pug player calling the tank retarded or braindead just before rage quitting are finally over. Sure! The wonders of Blizzard apologetics. LOL

[@tipep]

Even if that was true, nobody would want to KEEP playing tank because being a mobile healing dummy isn't all that enticing.

[@Gleamings]

@@tipep semi afk'ing (aka pretending that the damage you add as a healer has a significant impact when DPS have 6 to 10 times your overall) except for a bunch of 5 to 10s windows per key also isn't too much fun. I do like that this change encourages team work ("hey, I'm gonna need some more healing now but I'll have my big def CD back up for the AoE damage phase so you can focus on healing the group"), but we'll have to see how it works out in practice. Hoping for the best, preparing for the worst ( :

[@Gleamings]

@@mothman84 so is your gripe with the community or with Blizzard : )

[@mothman84]

@@Gleamings My gripe is with Blizzard, for everything WoW, including the qualities and behaviors of the community for that matter. When you ask the question of how much pressure is on the tank, you're the one bringing player behavior into consideration, not me. But again, the game creates the behavior, not viceversa. And who is it that creates the game, remind me? :)

[@tftg458]

I hope brewmaster and prot warrior wil finally be the best tanks again if they nerf healing

[@friskybitzboi]

DPS perspective: I like my mitigation because it makes me feel like I’m letting the healer focus on the tank and not have to worry as much about me

[@stormstrider1990]

The inconsistency of the BfA campaign in the Chronicle is due to Microsoft firing 1000 Blizzard employees, including people in charge of proof- reading new lore books. This is just like with Activision. The big bad corporation fires people, and the upcoming product suffers in the process.

[@Kiwicrack]

17:16 laying the tank's life at the healer's feet is good: so, are they taking away any of the healers' other responsibilities away to compensate for returning the tank liability? I don't heal, but I've been hearing for a while that healers already were hating having to handle the dps staying alive, dpsing themselves and having to handle a majority of the affixes. AFAIK they still will need to dps and handle some if not most affixes. So...I mean, if that's what healers wanted, then yay team. Also, as the poddyc discussed: a tank dying in shadowlands is normally bad tank play. Going forward, it's not as clear cut necessarily. (And you went into the pve paradigm immediately and man...it's just that. I'm scared shitless of doing M+ priory of the sacred flame)

[@ryans3795]

I bought dragonflight, but never actually reached max level and took a break for the entire expansion. Came back recently with a free version and played the mist of pandaria remix and had a bunch of fun with it. Since then, that's all I have done and actually havnt hit a live wow server for more than a couple minutes.

[@Ak3R0]

I always thought Knifu was the 5th Old God, hints were all over the the legendary weapon quest line..

[@Patrick_0n]

Good tank changes. Tanks were way too strong and did way to much dmg. I know people who only make tanks characters for survivability but can't tank worth crap. Tanks should never ever do as much damage as a dps, glad they reeling it in.

[@danielemacciantelli1788]

O god.. Invalidus? sounds like a character from Mad Max... " Scrotus Invalidus" ouch!

[@Valkorn367]

I'm a bit sad lore will not be organised until end of this world soul saga -maybe then we can let go and do a hard reset of all the errors and missed stuff from past. But the whole appeal is having this huge history, so no idea how will they ever make sense of it, but I don't think they care anyway. Rule of cool.