Church History Literacy - Chapter 2: 1 Clement

Biblical Literacy Class recorded 01-11-2015. More info on Biblical Literacy Class: biblical-literacy.org/ For Resources handouts etc: biblical-literacy.org/lessons...
Mark Lanier teacher. Champion Forest Baptist Church. Church History the subject.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

I must say that, when I listened to 1 Clement (twice) on KZbin, I didn't get that backstory about there being a "Younger Versus Older" contest in Corinth. I know there was some kind of church split going on but that seemed to happen in Corinth a lot.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

First John from the ESV is from the errant Westcott and Hort Text, which is based on somewhat Gnostic versions of the New Testament (the Codex Vaticanus and the Codex Sinaiticus). Both of these versions were edited by early "Christians" who didn't believe in the divinity of Christ. The King James Version is based on the Textus Receptus, which was in much wider use among the Christian community. 1 John in the Westcott Hort Text removes the passages which talk about the trinity (there are three in heaven... / there are three on earth...).

[@jesusstudentbrett]

In the first couple minutes, i find it interesting that this gentleman is so confident that Jesus is not coming back from the east and even makes reference to Jesus coming back from the direction of west toward the east, as if the early church's belief in this, necessarily implies a FLAT earth perspective. My friend, no... think about it, the world as we know is spherical. Just as satellites traveling around the geosynchronous orbit of the earth going from one direction to the other, lets say for illustration, from the west they rotate around the earth in the easterly direction, so Jesus will be traveling around the earth... it would seem. Now this matches up with the allegory that God put in the OT at the time of Moses' successor, Jesus (Yeshua transliterated as Joshua) took the people marching AROUND the city of Jericho, i.e. rotating around the city of Jericho and bring the walls down, is a picture of the second coming of Jesus (Yeshua/Joshua). Jesus said all will see him. Now how is this possible unless this is the case? Now if what we see in Jude 1:14-15 and Matthew 24 and 13 with Him returning with thousands of his angels foreshadowed by those Israelites, and going around, all will see Him. This makes sense.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

In today's churchianity "pastors" are professional Christians but in the first century, I doubt there were many bishops drawing a paycheck. That professionalization of church officials tends to really speed up the corruption process. Also, wanting the "name" of something is wanting the authority of that thing. In the expression, "Stop IN THE NAME OF the law", the person saying it is invoking the power (or authority) of the law.

[@vitorcantinho758]

Very good Teacher.

[@fleetwd1]

yes i think so too. that is why i feature him.

[@acts413biblecollege8]

Wish I could get the handouts!!! Anybody got em?

[@fleetwd1]

biblical-literacy.org/lessons/church-history/ page 3 has the class on 1 Clement it is the 2nd from the last lesson in the series. if the link does not work copy it. i have placed this link above in the description but for some reason it says it is invalid when i click on that one. i did check it is the same link but it does work on this reply go figure. must be a KZbin bug

[@horationelson57]

Wonderful series of talks( and only 556 people bothered viewing ) Thank you for sharing

[@bradleyhauf2346]

people do not use their etymologies very appropriately do they? like they still worry, when worries are ancient sins. What did the only begotten son tell us to do? Not worry about everyday life whether we had enough food and drink or clothes to wear for a single ounce of worry couldn't add a moment to our life. so those practicing christianity that are still worrying need to repent and not worry. also , pride/proudness is/are the first sin. yet people are still proud of their children. like without knowing its an ancient sin, therefore they use their etymology incorrectly. the apostle paul even stated to worry about nothing and pray about everything. so if you're still worrying, you're still in sin. repent, and get out of it. this would be like telling someone "i'm doing well" when one of the main common grammatical errors we make is to state we are "doing good" when the correct conjugation of the word is to state we are doing well. I would like to know how to get out of living in sin as well. if you have further comments you could tell me, i seek growth and I unconditionally hope for the same for others. =] \

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

I noticed this about 1 Clement, he prays to the Father, in the name of Jesus and calls the Father the Creator. Now, I know that creation was a community effort but Christian theology teaches that the Son was the One, who in the beginning, created the heaven and the earth. We can see in the writing of 1 Clement the beginnings of the Nicene Creed ("I believe in God the FATHER almighty, Creator of heaven and earth...") This is a very early departure from orthodoxy. Also, we don't believe in a Phoenix bird either, so...

[@approvedofGod]

Clement was so close to the apostles that he taught on the 500 year mythological bird "the Phoenix." The very thing the apostles wrote about, that men would depart from the faith and turn to fables. The presenter is bias and is teaching a generic version of Church History. This generic version is popular but inaccurate. The early first century church had deacons, elders, and bishops. Every local church had a plurality of all these. This is a far cry from later developments that totally change church hierarchy. Research on "priests, cardinals, and popes, and you will learn that this was not the early church.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

Excellent point. I was disturbed by this mythology included in 1 Clement myself and thought it was completely superfluous - as were MANY of the Old Testament quotes from that work. 1 Clement also refers to the Book of Judith - a book that had been kicked out of the Old Testament canon by the Jews but was included as such by many in the early church along with many other apocryphal books. Furthermore, I listened to 1 Clement twice from two different readings on KZbin before I listened to this presentation and I didn't get that "Younger Versus Elder" vibe from 1 Clement. I think you have to kind of read that into it.

[@Galileo1615]

the Greeks and Romans believed the world was a sphere ... not a flat earth. Just saying

[@masterprophet8378]

Scripture depicts a flat Earth. Just saying.

[@drpattanowski206]

Holy Cow I used to adopt a weirdly annoying voice identical to his when I would portray a nagging Christian fundamentalist to drive him crazy. good teacher though!

[@fleetwd1]

yes, the voice can put some off. fortunately Mark is not a nagger, nor a fundamentalist. Mark is a very indepth teacher for all who do listen. which apparently you did. thanks for the comment.