Starship Troopers - What's the Difference?

[@Cityinlead]

I know it’s small and pretty much semantics but it’s not power suits but “power armor” the reason I say that is because this book gave birth to the idea of that, master chief, Samus, Doom Guy, Starcraft, Warhammer 40K all started with this book

[@NoESanity]

don't forget gundam and basically the entire "giant mech" concept. and i believe also the super sentai (power rangers) also came from this "power armor" origin.

[@Jim-jv8np]

Iron Man also began with this book...

[@Darksky1001able]

Doomguy 95 doesnt wear power armor.

[@crispwhitesheets2175]

Also T-51 power armor

[@700gsteak]

master chief started from Doom not Starship Troopers. master chief is a direct rip off of Doom Guy 95's look. The part halo copied off Starship Troopers is the drop off scene.

[@LikeTheBuffalo]

The enemy cannot push the dislike button if you disable his hand!

[@TheRealNormanBates]

MEDIC!

[@champagneredneck]

You sir, are brilliant

[@bnctaj]

Noses.

[@dragoninthewest1]

In the book when they were talking about knives, Zim was using the knife as a metaphor for the mobile Infantry. Like a Knife they can be multi-purpose and also a precise killing tool.

[@SuperRichyrich11]

Neigh way, Jose Get it though? It means no but is also a thing horses say It works on every level!

[@GinHindew110]

Nobody mentions an essential par of the book: when the students are receiving lecture the teacher explicitly says the current form of government is not endorsed because is morally right but because it works and it must be changed once it stops working, the federation encouraged their members to question it

[@JakeA6956]

but muh fascism though

[@chrisseaman5055]

none of these reviewers actually read the book. they just watch the movie a lot. Much of the philosophy is lost to them.

[@kennandunn7533]

so the purest form of Realpolitik?

[@suarezguy]

And yet the movie, reasonably, argues that the veterans, the only people able to vote, will avoid making changes to the system because it indoctrinated them enough (even though the military isn't actually winning the war and it seems endless).

[@markhardman9420]

@@suarezguy True but both, book and movie, point out that you can't vote until after your out of the military. Something along the lines of they would just vote down the war they are in. It leaves all voting to the veterans who have had to live through all the same hardships and turmoil the current enlisted are. And would "wishful thinking" take that into account. So those who go career military never get to vote until fully retired. Basically saying only those who fought in ww1 could vote on if we go into ww2

[@tau-5794]

Humans in the: Book: Space Marines Movie: Guardsmen Why didn't anyone else come to that conclusion?

[@thedarkmaster4747]

XD

[@StormWildSpace]

Most 40k oriented pages typically point that out

[@hollowhoagie6441]

I was thinking Book: Halo spartans Movie: Halo Marines Sort of the same thing though

[@Longtail626]

I feel like the Guardsman would do a much better job than the mobile infantry

[@JPG.01]

@@Longtail626 Drowning the enemy in the blood of billions might be acceptable to the 40k universe, but with a life feed from the battlefield ike in the movie? That becomes a tough sell for potential new recruits.

[@shawnbrinsey9030]

“Psychics” are definitely in the book They use them to map out the tunnels the drones digs

[@Ixmore]

And to determine whether or not a someone is fit to be a drill instructor or not

[@TonyHammitt]

The point of the attack on the Skinny city in the book was to convince them that messing with the MI is a terrible idea and they should just stay out of the war or throw in on Earth's side. Which is why they were trying for maximum chaos but not going for a high body count. They wanted them to know, very clearly, that the MI could have hit their city much harder, which is why they only sent one platoon.

[@snarkdragon]

Yep. They were trying to drive a wedge between the Skinnies and their Arachnid allies.

[@The_sound_Of_Thunder]

As soon as I saw the movie tile and "whats the difference", I thought, well just about everything.

[@ntm4]

Same.

[@franciscodanconia45]

Considering Paul Verhoven didn’t even read the book, I think you’re right on the money.

[@mikecimerian6913]

@@franciscodanconia45 He trashed it. Anime has taken over much of the universe with better movies.

[@jamesmccrea4871]

@@mikecimerian6913 Agreed, Traitor of Mars is probably the best, and closest to date.

[@aritakalo8011]

@@franciscodanconia45 Which kinda makes sense, since the story wasn't based on the book. Verhoeven and writer Ed Nuiman had the story all ready to go. I think it was called something like Attack on outpost 9. However they had been long enough in film business to know nobody would greenlight it. so........ they camouflaged it. get rights to do the book adaptation, changed the plot line on superficial parts to match the book, named things after the book and put it to a melting oven. Outcomes (outwardly): Stupid fun action splatter sci-fi with "Heinlein story" sticker on stop, which makes studio bosses see dollars roll in their eyes. while that camo net of the book smuggled the real story Ed and Paul wanted to tell all the way from the script to movie theaters. and then people go "but this doesn't match the book".... Yeah it isn't supposed to. The book name was just a trick to get the movie done in first place.

[@samchaleau]

The only thing I disagree with in this (and it's a minor point) is that Heinlein wasn't trying to say that aggressiveness is necessary for any continuing society, rather that the willingness and courage to BE aggressive when required IS necessary. The theme of the novel is effectively: In social structures, the longer you hide from the horror of the world, the sooner it lands at your doorstep.

[@pfisherking]

This ^

[@mojothemigo]

Wise, but lost on the ultra left wing cynics criticizing the book including this video

[@autismobinch135]

Sam Hale I guess it’s a good thing we napalmed all those Vietnamese farmers then huh?

[@andrewcook2625]

@@autismobinch135 you mean the farms that had tunnels for the Viet kong, or the farms the Viet kong were using for supplies, remember the Viet kong were the same people who would take thermite to children and tell them to run up to the soldiers. So imagine a small child running up to you crying and you have zero idea if she was a bomb or just a scared child The viet kong were the US first encounter with asymmetric warfare, so while I agree the assholes in political power did not handle the war correctly or from a strategic understanding. Actions like bombing a farm actually makes sense, normally is standard warfare you know which farms supply the military and only bomb those, seeing as the politicians didn't know which farms were supplying the Viet kong, they went to all farms are supplying the Viet kong

[@CGSRichards]

@@andrewcook2625 First encounter with modern asymmetric warfare you mean. The US military was literally birthed by a century of constant asymmetric warfare against the Natives and other colonizing Europeans. Of the dozens of conflicts fought by the US only something like 7 were primarily conventional.

[@ryanapolasky4081]

Rico in the book was also Filipino. He spoke Tagalog. Also, I think Verhooven implies that the asteroid attack was a false flag attack to justify an invasion of Klendathu since it would be literally impossible to send an asteroid from the other side of the galaxy in such a short time.

[@moonshadowmagic7116]

So glad someone else caught that the Ricos were Filipino, not tall, blond... well, we know where the film took that. I saw the film, then dug out the book and read it, and found the film far more offensive-- Heinlein puts his ideas out there for thought and discussion (including mech suits, long before anime!) while the film was pleased to consider a WWII veteran's views so fascist that they had to hammer the viewer with straight-up Nazi imagery. Ugh.

[@saytax]

What do you mean, "a false flag attack?" Carmen narrowly avoids the meteor and states it's trajectory is toward Earth. When the Captain says to send a warning to fleet, they can't, their comms station was destroyed. So, no. Not a false flag.

[@gonintendo1]

@@saytaxactually it clips off her ship, which changes the direction, and she was flying off course

[@saytax]

@@gonintendo1 You can find a clip of the footage here on KZbin.

[@Ripper669]

And they tout their asteroid defense system at start of movie... lol where was that when this thing was coming in?

[@kpencil859]

Jonny Rico or Juan Rico in the books is actually Filipino!

[@terraincognita9361]

walker jfs better than the film

[@noneofyourbusiness9489]

@walker jfs The book is one of the best works of science fiction ever written, and the movie, which might have been decent with a different name, is trash for stealing the name of the book.

[@Broadsword85]

Ow really. Well the more you know....

[@DevinEMILE]

none of your business I mean the first movie is amazing. I don’t know why you make an amazing movie then be like huh let’s take the members out. Like it’s obviously not to meant to have a sequel as they killed most people off. The sequels are pretty bad.

[@noneofyourbusiness9489]

@@DevinEMILE The first film is also trash using the name Starship Troopers.

[@jrickducking6685]

Fun facts #1:some of the props like the armor in the first movie were reuse in power Ranger lost galaxy Fun fact #2:the novel was an inspiration for gundam

[@tackyman2011]

Some armor was re-used for government troops in the Firefly series.

[@Darksky1001able]

Mobile Suit Gundam?

[@nathanhernandez9293]

I believe the armor was also used in Imposter(2001) staring Gary Senise

[@kpencil859]

Fun fact. Juan Rico is filipino.

[@Maisonier]

Looks more like Starcraft...

[@orangelion03]

Rico was Filipino in the book. Wish someone would take a shot at making Forever War into a movie...

[@darkage5]

They are already trying to screw that up. I have read articles that they want Channing Tatum in the part of Mandella.

[@orangelion03]

@@darkage5 I wouldnt put too much stake in that...I've been reading those rumors (with various actors) for 30+ years! =D

[@ShroomKeppie]

Sorry, there's another six Thor and Avengers movies to make.

[@606hunter1]

I love that book

[@baskogitlog7276]

Yep his name is juan rico and they didnt notice that.hmmm

[@jacobfarley434]

One point of difference that seems minute but is actually a big point is the tactics of the MI in the book versus the movie. In the book, officers drop first is a major point discussed, that higher ranking officers are first on the ground before the enlisted men, despite officers carrying less weapons and armor. The reason is that way no matter what goes wrong, evenly a lowly private on his first drop with have someone more experienced to lead them. In the movie, tactics all together seem thrown out the window as the few field officers seen just shout and wave their arms and the enlisted are just thrown at the bugs hoping to win by numbers.

[@scarabmango]

That's the thing, you NEVER beat the bugs by numbers! The bugs ALWAYS have the numbers! Dale Gribble could tell you that much!

[@matiasfpm]

Whelp. Even the Starship troopers OVAs are more kinda related to the book with that perspective

[@pizza4589]

Thats stupid.

[@redneckzen]

@@matiasfpm The animated Starship Troopers is kinda awesome. It's been a few years since I've seen them, but they take much more from the book than the movie, as I remember.

[@NukeMarine]

It's mentioned in the book if you only lose 1 trooper for every 50 bugs, you're losing. People that play Protoss versus Zerg understand this idea all too well. BTW, StarCraft is like the video game adaption of Starship Troopers with Protoss as the skinnies.

[@Garfunkels_Funky_Uncle]

Also in the book, Rico is Philipino. Also, the book mostly centered around two points, basic training, and officer candidate school, the bugs were barely in the book and most of the deaths in the book happened during the basic training parts.

[@LinkSysRoute]

The bugs in the movie were really, really sad. In the movie they were pretty much unintelligent critters with no apparent tech that shot at ships in orbit with plasma farts and *somehow* aimed a small asteroid and fired it interstellar distances (at ludicrous speed) to hit a planet. In the book the bugs were smart enough to make *allies* of other alien races (the "skinnies" as an example), who killed the MI by use of *guns* and had their own interstellar space ships that they used to attack other star systems. The bugs weren't after us as food, they were after us because... y'know, the book never really said. It just implied that it was because we both use the same sort of planets to live on.

[@arnhelmkrausson8445]

That's it. We have what they want or the other way around. That's usually enough to spark conflicts

[@tompearce5418]

The Movie Bugs used organic technology, especially genetic engineering. Arguably the Federation's technology and FTL travel is the only reason they weren't overrun.

[@jackwinchestergodley6566]

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE?

[@BlackSteelKeyChain]

Then watch fox news

[@orcatwar9810]

Click here

[@quantumphaser]

Um, actually it's: "Would you like to know more?" Trust me, I'm right on that😎

[@mekawasp]

@@quantumphaser you are, but we still got the reference :P

[@carlosd.3287]

Yeah. Was the shower scene in the book?

[@Squatex1]

I saw a film documentary a few years ago where Edward Neumeier stated that the original idea for the film came from an idea of Verhoeven's. He wanted to make a film about a group of kids rising through the ranks of the Wehrmacht during World War 2, but do it in an exciting and triumphant way. They both realized such a concept would be impossible to get produced. A few years later Neumeier came back to Verhoeven saying "I think I might have a way to do this" and we get Starship Troopers. This explains a lot.

[@178fluffy]

anyone realize that the practical and some of the vfx still holds up today

[@rockinrecords4081]

The space sequences with the ship miniatures hold up surprisingly well when compared to some modern space movies relying on CGI

[@killian9314]

@@rockinrecords4081 yeah, verhoeven loves practical effects, its a dying art

[@rockinrecords4081]

@@killian9314 Robocop is another classic with impressive practical effects. I hope Neil Blomkamp keeps that aesthetic for Robocop Returns. I'm pretty sure he mentioned that he'd be using lots of blood squibs for it, so that gives me hope at least.

[@killian9314]

@@rockinrecords4081 Neil Blompkamp is making a Robop Reboot!? i didnt know!, thanks man, i dont have much faither given that chappie and elisym were enjoyable but a disaster, even if i love Distric 9 to death, wow, lets hope the man gets it right again

[@mireilleverreault-girard7295]

Not only do the effects hold up, but they're actually better than those of most movies made today.

[@aceman67]

Totally didn't mention that this book is on nearly every required reading list for Military Officer Candidate Schools the world over, mostly because of how it portrays the role of the Officer and the supreme responsibility they have for their subordinates and the mission they are tasked.

[@lsq7833]

Didn't even mention that book Rico is a Tagalog-speaking Filipino.

[@longball756]

No, it was never made clear.. Johnny was most likely mixed race.. Father with a Harvard accent, Bennie questioning his origins even after the fact etc... Heinlein did this (racially ambiguous characters) is many of his books

[@HorriblePodcast]

Starship Troopers: the most controversial book Heinlein wrote, until his next one a few years later. It's funny that someone can be abhorred for being a fascist and a hippie. Personally, I don't think the book is quite the recruitment tool everyone likes to make it out to be. It always read like extrapolation rather than what he was hoping for. The 3 important Heinlein books (Starship Troopers, Stranger in a Stange Land, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress) are essential sci-fi reading.

[@HorriblePodcast]

Agreed. If you read his juveniles, getting kids to think for themselves seemed to be the main goal of those novels.

[@doomdog92]

i think another good one is the cat who walks through walls, as it explores what can go wrong after harsh mistress

[@MisterRlGHT]

​Time Enough for Love is a raunchy epic whose protagonist's exploits include a trip back in time to seduce & impregnate his own unwitting soon-to-be mother -- thus becoming his own secret bastard father -- and cloning himself late in life to produce 2 female versions, who become as randy as he once they hit puberty & insist he join in frequent 3-way orgies with his teenage twin selves. (I am not kidding.)

[@xianartman]

What A Horrible Night To Have A Podcast really enjoyed ‘moon is a harsh mistress ‘ TANSTAFL

[@dragoninthewest1]

A few others I would have had in there are I shall fear no evil and Friday.

[@DahakaVitz]

If violence doesn't solve your situation, you're not using enough violence.

[@cyanyde4950]

sounds like you need an extra dose of brutal force

[@joeschembrie9450]

Maybe putting less salt in the soup would make it less salty, but what do I know. Bang that shaker, bang it GOOD!

[@valok252]

VIOLENCE DOESN'T SOLVE ANYTHING EXCEPT FOR ALL THE THINGS IT DOES. (c) Mr. Torgue

[@tylerwinkle323]

What if a mosquito lands on your balls

[@user-gb5mb1rv7f]

@@tylerwinkle323 Flick laterally!

[@taun856]

One thing about the book a lot of people either overlook or are unaware of, is that while service was a guarantee of citizenship, service was not limited to the military... A person could serve in many different fields - such as medical, police, rescue, etc... Military was simply one of many options... I would have liked the movie better if they had changed the name and separated it from the book somewhat... The book is one of the most personally influential books I've ever read... On the other hand the movie was (to me at least) little more than somewhat entertaining...

[@windwind3170]

Oh yeah, i remember reading about special unit with talking smart dogs and that dogs would be killed out of mercy if their owner dies.

[@francisdhomer5910]

Went through the comments to see if anyone else brought this up. Yes in the book it was Federal service to earn citizenship and anyone could join at any age. as it says in the book and I paraphrase, "If you are blind they will find something for you to do. Maybe counting hairs on a caterpillar by feel" And the movie with the knife through the hand part, not in the book, but it was brought up in the book. And Johnny never quit, he came close. And his mistake wasn't getting someone killed, it was in a simulated battle and he cheated, doing something that in real life would have got his men killed. I could go on and on. Part way through the movie a sat back and pretended it wasn't the book, enjoyed it much better

[@smartalek180]

"The book is one of the most personally influential books I've ever read" That applies to a lot of us here. I know it troubled RAH that they (he, of course) couldn't have bio-kids. I hope he knows how many of us consider ourselves to be his children, to some extent. I'm pretty sure he does. Hope that pleases him.

[@57thorns]

Film makers did the same to "I, robot", and several other Science Fiction classics once the genre became lucrative. The best cinematic SF of the 1970s, 80s and 90s were written for the big or small screen; Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5, Blake's 7, Firefly (admittedly 2002-2003) to name a few. The core of SF is generally hard to capture in a film, as they are rarely about the high action intense car chase that much mainstream movies is all about.

[@MrAntice]

@@windwind3170 iirc it was hardly better for the K9 trooper who owned the dog when the dog died. they were effectively retired as psych cases after the loss of the dog half of the duo.

[@otisl.1422]

Interesting part of the book that no one ever seems to remember: Every MI is susceptible to hypnotic commands. It's played off as a way to help your troops get some much needed z's when things may be too hectic to do so naturally. I wonder if Heinlein ever considered the notion of the leaders simply taking control of the superhuman soldiers that come out of places like Camp Arthur Currie.

[@fallyn2920]

They could very well do so, but making descisions that end up with high amount of casualties or infringe upon hyrarchy of the command structure is punished severely and gets more severe the higher up you go. It can range from demotion to the death penalty depending on how severe the results are. Communication is quite open so i doupt if this could be used against the federation in a meaningful way.

[@jfridy]

It's not that shocking that Verhoeven missed so many points of the book given he's said he never actually read it, he just wanted to make a parody of what he thought the book was about.

[@aritakalo8011]

Well this fails due to a wrong base assumption.... Verhoeven wasnt aiming for the book. They had the whole movie scripted way before. Heck the original idea was blue eyed yanks being brain washed in Nazi military in 1930's (Verhoeven is dutch and lived through WWII occupation, got a pretty big axe to grind with fascist.) Neimier and Verhoeven knew nobody was going to greenlight it as contemporary movie (too controversial). So they decided to make a scifi, since scifi lets one have more freedom. So they did a plot based on a space war. Neimier had read the book years ago and suggested in name of getting the movie greenlit situating the movie in the Starshiptroopers setting. Hence why the plot don't line up and the pretty much nothing else lines up either..... Since it isn't using the plot of the Book or the message or the book or satire of the book. The inclusion of the book is camouflage. Since if they had told "hey we want to make sci-fi war propaganda satire movie, that kinda compares present USA militarism with nazis"..... Yeah.... that was gonna get greenlit so well..... So instead it was "we are making movie adaptation of Starshiptroopers.... You know that Heinlein book".

[@dadoogie]

@@groomersgotohell he failed hard on what he wanted to do though and who ever wrote it put more of the clever deep elements of the b0ok sneakily into it either on purpose or by accident and ruined his message of the republic being facist completely. Its rather fitting that some pc baby sjw wouldnt do his research and fuck up his good intentions like that hadn't happened before, hell even the book says that the sjw do gooders of our age would destroy society through good intentions.

[@ontledingen3348]

@@aritakalo8011 good comment. that sets aside a lot of discussions.

[@Prometheus7272]

He was a socialist so that explains his lack of understanding

[@Prometheus7272]

@kevin willems What do they do thats fascist

[@Enlapanlima]

The anime version of Starship Trooper is much closer to the book. It even has Power Suits and all.

[@hushedcasket4898]

There was also a CGI version called Roughnecks which tried to combine the book and movie.

[@ketch2501]

Well, except for the Power Suits themselves, which were very faithful to Heinlein's description, the old Uchuu no Senshi anime was, storywise, only remotely inspired by the book.

[@aritakalo8011]

Probably because it was actual based on the book.... Unlike the 1997 movie, that pretty much just loaned the starshipstroopers name and setting to get greenlit...... Intentionally. The movie idea was originally developed independent of the book and they had pretty much ready script with the satire and commentary they wanted. Then they glued the book setting on top to make it easier to get funding and greenlit.

[@happyjohn354]

@@aritakalo8011 ya the movie was originally supposed to be a movie called Bug Hunt at Outpost 9 and was almost finished when someone noticed some similarities to Starship Troopers and thus changed the name and such...

[@jordanleng204]

Types of Starship Troopers: Book-master chief Movie-storm trooper

[@ulty1472]

Jordan L correction Book-master chief + ironman

[@DevinEMILE]

Hugo a group of Spartans would have had the movie version dead pretty quick. In cannon they never really lost a ground battle. Now the book I hear they are actually competent. But also behind the Spartans technology. Spartans have almost unbreakable bones, can run fast as hell average is like 40kmh while Kelly can do 60. Bread since 6 to be super soldiers. That’s not even bringing into the fact the power armor with its shields, he’ll the mark VII can be changed based on what the wearing wants it to look like.

[@MrEd8846]

Correction....... having political debates while waiting for Master chief moments to come (and they dont)

[@TOFMDrone]

shower scene that is all

[@coolluckyme2007]

Too bad Carmen wasn't there :(

[@mastermixmovies687]

@@coolluckyme2007 Umm... Wild Things

[@guyshepard9658]

THEY’RE COED. Oh my.

[@chadcastagana9181]

No sex in the book, and nothing coed

[@Ineddiblehulk]

Dat ass!

[@WheelerPro2000]

What the movie got wrong was that John Rico was a Philippino

[@MrMovieRecaps]

Zesc is here ! True, but the film wasn’t originally made as ‘starship troopers’ as at the point of scripting and starting to film they didn’t have the rights, plus it was always their intent to go with a young American cast.

[@iroulis]

Juan Rico is played by Casper VAN DIEN. Life got it close enough.

[@jmonseur5322]

The political system described in the book is not anywhere close to fascism. Fascism necessarily requires an authoritarian state that is prioritized over individual liberty, which is not anywhere close to what is described. Even the movie, which was intended to satirize fascism, failed to depict a fascist system. While the recruiting ads were purposefully cheesy, everything shown on the news was actually verified through other perspectives throughout the movie.

[@autismobinch135]

J Monseur Oh yeah the book totally promotes individualism By promoting militarism as one of the most important parts of a society

[@steelbear2063]

@@autismobinch135 Only it does not. It promotes will and courage and responsibility. People are not only not encouraged to join the military, but are discouraged. Still, everyone is welcome nonetheless. So the way I see it we have three choices. You are 1 - idiot, 2 - troll, 3 - neither of the previous two, but just don't really know what you're talking about.

[@sch3ffel]

@@steelbear2063 not only the MI discourages people to join they also will not give a crap if you want to get out of the military... you just cant go back in after...

[@matt_pigeonowsky]

@@steelbear2063 Not only that, service for federation in book means you work for government, in hospital, as policeman or fire fighter, not only as soldier

[@MrPikaGammer]

@@autismobinch135 It promotes responsibility and the will to actually involve yourself with your community, keep in mind that Service to the Federation isn't always military. Infact most people who do serve the Federation aren't soldiers, they're doctors, researchers, mechanics, test subjects (that are humanely treated) it all depends on what you personally are capable of contributing. Are you also forgetting that the book specifically states that personal freedoms are at an all time high and that the only right non-citizens don't have is involvement with politics.

[@NukeMarine]

I read the book after the movie, and still say the opening chapter was far better than the entire movie. As pointed out, the book was more about the philosophy of military power in a merit based democratic society. The idea is that people that never sacrificed anything for a government should not have much of any say in how that government is ran. It's also overlooked that government service was not just military service as a small part of the book was about union ship workers wanted their particular area of work to count as federal service. A BIG difference overlooked is the reveal at the end that Johnny Rico is Filipino. Not sure Heinlein's reason for that set-up, but I think he wanted to throw the reader for a loop that humanity is just that, human with all the races that make it up and can be brothers/sisters in arms.

[@ShroomKeppie]

No "sacrificed anything for a government", but "committed themselves to the greater good." You could have spent your entire enlistment as an accountant or fighting on Klandathu, and it wouldn't have made any difference. It was the willingness to put yourself on the line that made the difference.

[@kyleshanaberger7117]

NukeMarine about mid way in the book he says his parents native lanauge is tagolic which is the language they speak in the Philippines so it was like a read between the lines callback

[@NukeMarine]

Ah, missed that part. Thanks.

[@8ncient1]

@Mists & Shadows your conclusions are drawn from discredited research, if not outright racism. Any difference in regional IQs can be explained by a combination of the history of the people and their ancestors access to nutrition and resources, biases in the test materials, and many other factors. White populations have much to gain by intermixing. A lack of genetic diversity, poor and lessening birth rates, mutations and harmful recessive traits, and many other shortfalls of the caucasian "race" can be corrected in this way. The picture you paint of whites bringing everyone else up could not be further from the truth, and is a viewpoint for which there is no justification or evidence. Obtain an education on these matters for your sake if for no other reason.

[@charleschapman6810]

That'strueenough. Mydadwasa ship fitter apprenticeatthe charlestown naval shipyardwherethey worked 34 hoursa dayabd turnedout three fleet destroyers month!But, like the merchant marinesandthe women shuttle pilotswho delivered planestothefrontlinebases, theirservicedidn't countas fed service(until yearsaftethe war)!

[@brycevo]

Come On you Apes! Don't you want to Ask: What's the Difference?!

[@madgictoad39]

Wait what ffs

[@pilroberts6185]

Whats the difference you say... (not you Bryce per se but the greater internet ether collective writ large) Well I'm not sure, first off I'm already put off by CineFix's 'seemingly we are now rapidly approaching a weird totalitarian regime duels by propaganda now is as good a time as any'... insinuation that now 2 years into a Trump Presidency this is the case. I'm sick of such moronic idiocy reflexively vomited by millennial automaton group think nitwits too dumb to realize it is they have been indoctrinated by Modern Liberal totalitarians. Trumpism ironically with his populism conservatism seeking to preserve remnants of Classical Liberalism is not the cause nor even a symptom of the disease but the cure! Whats the difference... we are men not apes, we are sentient and if we wish to keep our sentience and inherent individual liberty which derives from sentience... we best get our collective head's out of our asses or the true totalitarians will kick our asses into subservience or simply take our heads off.

[@AlteraLin]

[Want to know more intensifies]

[@pilroberts6185]

@ickisistheshitz Limited government, individual liberty, free markets rule of law, and national sovereignty, the classical liberal ideals which emanated from the Enlightenment. Everything conservatives seek to preserve and modern liberals seek to destroy.

[@pilroberts6185]

@ickisistheshitz The good, the true, and the beautiful are timeless, the pursuit of these is what conservatives seeks to preserve. Your idolized Modern Liberals are nothing but stagnant sclerosed decayed totalitarians. Dont believe me? Who seeks to censor, censure, and silence free speech?? Pray that you realize it before their perfume wears off and you are stuck with their stench forever.

[@Cityinlead]

Anyone else love the short animated design of the book moments in this video?

[@matthewpierpont7901]

Some of the elements could be viewed as Fascist, but it was clear their society still allowed for free speech, freedom of movement, et al. While the concept of "History and Moral Philosophy" is ambiguous in nature, the book was meant as a thoughtful critique of communism through a cast ethnically diverse characters (Rico being from the Philippines and not actually white.) while attempting to answer Aristotle's question of who should be allowed to vote by stating someone of virtuous character should be allowed to vote. The idea was that public service (which wasn't just the military which was the more obvious one) but who is willing to actually spend the time in the dirt working in some positive way to help the society. That's not say it would work but the idea was not a utopia but a democratic meritocracy or civic individualism that kept itself sane (subjective term but the best I got). If you read John Locke, Thomas Paine, John Stuart Mills, and Thomas Hobbs, you can see Heinlein built a lot of the book's philosophy on those philosopher's contributions to Classical Liberalism. However I can see where the critics could get concepts of racism, imperialism, and fascism as a lot can be interpreted as such, Heinlein was far from racist, and his ideas on individualism especially towards feminism and sexuality would hardly put him in the fascist category. Rather the book itself was more of a fictional answer to Marx and Engels's Communist Manifesto. This is just my opinion as I have read a lot of books. Doesn't necessarily mean I am right but that's what I've been able to conclude more or less.

[@allyourbase50]

There was nothing communist about the society of the earth federation.

[@firefker]

@@allyourbase50 Mostly it was the bugs that were viewed as the communist collective or a kind of Hive mind.

[@morskojvolk]

Matthew Pierpont - Spot on. Thank you for articulating the not-so-obvious ideas Heinlein tried to convey. Unfortunately, too many have bought into the cliff's notes version from Heinlein's critics.

[@oscarkilby4033]

The ideological opposition was militarism not fascism or communism. It's just fascists and commies tend to be militarists

[@crym77]

Matthew Pierpont, you are right.

[@therabbi9848]

Heinlein's main idea from the book seems to be that the ideal society is closer to Roman Republicanism than Fascism. Service to the state is necessary in order to earn the ability to vote since said people are the most likely to have the best interests of the state at heart, rather than their own interests. Honestly, not that objectionable.

[@JaimeWulf]

I agree wholeheartedly... Although I enjoyed the movie from a pure entertainment pov it said little about anything of substance... It also showed how little most people understood Atomic Weapons at that point in time, since the Troopers used Nukes almost like hand grenades, lol...

[@mangalores-x_x]

Said idealized Roman Republic in the novel still involed commiting warcrimes.

[@mikebrandon8962]

And that system is completely idiotic. Military is a form of dictatorship, where you must obey blindly all the orders given to you because this is what hierarchy is for and any disobedience is punished harshly. And you give those people the right to vote for the future of the nation? A bunch of brainwashed cavemen?! No wonder society in the movie/novel is similarly fucked up as our reality. Over there promoting violence (because voters were brutes themselves promoting inferior outdated concepts of their forefathers, the neanderthals. In our society every idiot is given that right. How about we apply capitalism to the end. No more voting. Do you see the cleaning lady or the newspaper boy deciding who the next CEO, department manager or other leader in the company??? No. Those are hired based on competency by other people that are skilled enough. And if these employees are bad, or god forbid steal from the company, they are fired and charged and sent to jail. Democracy is a failed system because in it's conception is flawed and in it's application as well, where votes are bought with various advantages, especially from religious groups and their "leaders".

[@MetalGamer666]

@@mikebrandon8962 This is a good point. Conservative Americans seem to worship the military. At the same time they don't trust any democrat. Yet half the time the supreme leader of the military, The Commander in Chief, is a democrat (like Obama). My experience with my military service was mixed. When I was serving under incompetent officers, it was a nightmare, and it's not much you can do as a private. When I was serving under competent, charismatic officers that I trusted to make good decisions, however, it was a different story. But there is little you can do to control that part. Generation Kill and Band of Brothers describes this brilliantly.

[@IllBeHornswoggled]

Not quite correct- for Heinlein, it was not service to the state per se, it was that specifically those who proved willing to sacrifice their lives to ensure the lives of humanity (which in the book was at stake) were able to more or less run the state in such as way as to keep things going- he indicated that the "state" wasn't a utopia, and that it was only working "slightly" more on the plus than the minus side. Unfortunately, the only way to reliably test willingness to sacrifice one's life is to, in fact, risk (and often lose) it- conveniently, his state of humanity is in a fight for its life anyway, so opportunities abound.

[@gokinsmen]

Book: Serious Film: Satire

[@RecklessFables]

Movie: Parody of the Book

[@KeyDash753]

@@RecklessFables Not a parody of the book, satire of Nazi propaganda.

[@44excalibur]

Paul Taylor But the book had nothing to do with Nazi propaganda, so that's why this movie is crap.

[@KeyDash753]

@@44excalibur I don't dispute that it's very different from the book. You're correct that it's a crappy adaptation of the book. But whether or not the movie is a crappy movie should be judged independently. Verhoeven want to make a Nazi propaganda satire. So he borrowed some names and general plot points from the book, scrapped everything else, and made his Nazi satire. Most people agree that, judged as a propaganda satire, the movie is good.

[@Snapper314]

That idiot Verhoeven didn't mention anything about this movie being a satire or a parody until AFTER the movie came out & was slammed.

[@vicenteortegarubilar9418]

Oh this is going to be a special video.

[@Starius2]

first 6 seconds of the video, they just had to pull a "ORANGE MAN BAD", ehhh?

[@SquallAKALeon]

@@Starius2 No one named names. That statement could have gone either way. I'm sure there's no shortage of people on either side ready to screech 'facist' at the other, completely with their own propaganda to that effect. If you see an attack on your side in that statement, maybe you should rethink your position. Or you just wanted an excuse to quote a meme like the fucking NPC you are.

[@Meteaura22]

@@SquallAKALeon NPC sounds about right. Or old guard. Either one works really.

[@idrinkmilk282]

I demand you tell me what your comment on the cloverfield lane video meant Vicente. Tell me now.

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

Here’s a little quote for you kiddies. "I believe in my whole race. Yellow, white, black, red, brown --in the honesty, courage, intelligence, durability....and goodness.....of the overwhelming majority of my brothers and sisters everywhere on this planet. I am proud to be a human being. I believe that we have come this far by the skin of our teeth, that we always make it just by the skin of our teeth --but that we will always make it....survive....endure. I believe that this hairless embryo with the aching, oversize brain case and the opposable thumb, this animal barely up from the apes, will endure --will endure longer than his home planet, will spread out to the other planets, to the stars, and beyond, carrying with him his honesty, his insatiable curiosity, his unlimited courage --and his noble essential decency. This I believe with all my heart." - Robert A. Heinlein

[@roguishpaladin]

I'll grant that there was much to like about Heinlein. He was exceptionally progressive in his views on race, and I praise him for that. I do have a problem with the blatant sexism in some of his books (Job comes to mind) and it is something to be aware of. Overall, for me Heinlein fits into the "from an earlier time so overlook some of his problematic themes) category, unlike, say, Orson Scott Card.

[@jonbrandre3006]

@@roguishpaladin Ideas only become problematic when they are viewed from the wrong context or without understanding the time period of the originator. All honestly conceptualized philosophies have SOME amount of merit to them, as no rational person applies an idea to their life that would not benefit them or someone they care about in some way, even if they are detrimental or destructive to someone else. I agree with you, though.

[@jb111082]

@@jonbrandre3006 Ideas aren't problematic when viewed at all. It's not until the idea is implimented that it can become a problem. For example: Genocide doesn't hurt anything at all.....Unless you impliment it on a population.

[@wow-ww7pe]

In Heinlein's book, the troopers' power suit was a man amplifier, like the original design in the first Iron Man comic book. It was an armored shell with built-in armament. The producer of the anime Mobile Suit Gundam wanted to do a series like Starship Troopers, but giant robots were the rage in Japan, so the power suits in Gundam are giant robot type man amplifiers.

[@charleshetrick3152]

Okay yah didn’t read the book. The opening battle they’re doing the opposite of carpet bombing. A few Cap. Troopers are dropped in to cause a ruckus and then extract. No carpet bombing. It was a “cavalry raid”

[@Jebbtube]

I'm ashamed to admit that when I first saw this film, I completely missed that it was a satire. Then again, I didn't know it was based on a book until much later.

[@HellerickCF]

Because it is not a satire. Claiming that it was a satire, was Verhoeven's self-defense against those who would accuse in sympathies for fascism.

[@Tyler_W]

Understandable. It's pretty easy to miss that it's a satire because it's social commentary is entirely confused. It was an attempted satirization of fascism. The problem is that the society in the book akd in the movie isn't actually fascist. All of the people calling it that have absolutely zero understanding of political philosophy and certainly have no idea what fascism actually is.

[@Tyler_W]

@@ThatCreeNative1 a lot of those movies and shows you described as having no meaning absolutely do have subtextual meaning because all stories are thematically driven to one extent or another. It's just that many of them can be superficially enjoyed independent of their subtext.

[@bno6156]

@@Tyler_W there’s a difference between a militaristic society and a fascist society

[@HSE331]

its a failed satire

[@Vollification]

The main difference can be summed up like this: In the novel the mobile infantry are "Space Marines" In the film the mobile infantry are "Imperial Guard" Also in the book and the film Sgt Zim is Full Metal Jacket Gunny on crack.

[@jb111082]

What you said about Sgt. Zim was an understatement!

[@MidKnight_Reign]

and then there is the full CGI TV series... "Roughnecks: The Starship Troopers Chronicles"

[@shamalamaaa]

WAY BETTER

[@longball756]

And the anime Starship troopers!

[@Kikai155]

Don't forget in the novel Juan Rico's race isn't American. He is an Phil-American. Half American and Half Filipino.

[@WillEnglish]

"To the everlasting glory of the Infantry.”

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

“Shines the name, shines the name of Roger Young!”

[@justanobadi6655]

Such a tale could have ended no other way.

[@casusbelli1657]

While it’s not credited, I believe the way the aliens and the approach to war are handled (including the way war is derided) are more inspired by The Forever War written by Joe Haldeman than by the Starhip Troopers book. I would not be surprised to learn the people involved in creating the movie had actually read the former.

[@davidcrouch7365]

I always get the shakes before a drop.

[@cybereus836]

Surprise the director who didn't read the book couldn't stay true to the book.

[@Slayer398]

Verhoven couldn't get past chapter 2, he said it was too hard or too bad to read. So, I don't think he deserves a a little latitude if he can't get to the 1/4 mark in the book.

[@suarezguy]

The characters and I think plot are pretty similar nonetheless.

[@GriffinKneesock]

suarezguy not...at all?

[@saytax]

Dizzy was a dude.....

[@capscaps04]

@SgtBaker16 Cry me a river.

[@pcolon1]

Carl was killed on a research base on Pluto, not on Jupiter. The big twist of the book is at the very end where we find out that the entire time “Johnny” Juan Rico is actually Filipino. Rereading, you will find that he was never described in any way other than being rich and male. At a time where racism still plagued the armed forces, pointing out that the Terran Federation Army was multi-cultural was casually mentioned and that a much higher percentage of people from the “colony worlds” signed up for service was also intentionally casually stated to drive home the worth of a united and multi-ethnic humanity.

[@Laurantalasah]

Imagine two argentinian teenagers watching this movie for the first time when it came out and finding that every character we follow trough was argentinian as well... it was frigging awesome! My brother and I couldn't believe it!

[@CosmoShidan]

I can't believe they overlooked that the cast of the book is culturally diverse, e.g. Jonnie is Filipino in the novel or that Ace is African-American or that the book was also a slight reflection of the Korean War.

[@CheapSushi]

Well in the movie Rico is Argentinian. Not like they're all just white Americans.

[@Velrisias]

Paul Verhoeven's starship troopers is a comedy and it should be viewed as one

[@saytax]

Because he can't read a book?

[@Alexander_Kale]

@@saytax Because it is a comedy.

[@saytax]

@@Alexander_Kale In what way? I dont recall Verhoeven saying he was making a comedy, nor seeing comedy as the overarching theme.

[@Alexander_Kale]

@@saytax If you cannot see, I cannot help you there. And what Verhoeven originally wanted to do is less important than what he actually did. The film is a satire and a comedy. It certainly is not to be taken serious.

[@saytax]

@@Alexander_Kale I can agree with you that the film is different from his original aim, which was to paint the Starship Troopers' society in a way fascistic theme. Did he deliver that accurately? No. In fact, he did the opposite and made a society where fascism is barely even present and the state doesn't dictate peoples' (it's a world government) lives in commerce or socially as it would in a truly fascist government. As for satire and comedy, your gonna have to point to an example.

[@ben6089]

Starship Troopers was a Young Adult book too. Heinlein had a very different idea of what was appropriate for young adults back then compared to other authors of that category.

[@SturFriedBrains]

The first time I ever cried to a death in a book was when Lt. Rasczhak died. H was a character for like a page and a half, but he was so important.

[@kredl756]

It made you feel that way because the character in the book feel that way. That is how you write a character.

[@abbymitchell5948]

Dutch's death a few pages before was one of the few things to make me audible gasp in surprise and discomfort

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

"Seeing how we're rapidly approaching some totalitarian regime fueled by propaganda . . ." Where have you been the last 20 years? We started moving towards that in the 90s with the deregulation of the media, with that situation being achieved in the early 2000s.

[@Spider-Too-Too]

When little mustang man showed all the power hungry men how awesome it is to be totalitarian

[@Calbeck]

@@Spider-Too-Too And when was that? When he militarized the capitol alleging a massive insurrection was imminent and that security was paramount over freedom? Wait, that was Biden and also Hitler. My bad.

[@Spider-Too-Too]

@@Calbeck I’m not into all the American politics news (we don’t know what kind of future it will lead to yet), it will all just become another chapter of the human history

[@Spider-Too-Too]

@@Calbeck btw, since we are in the comment section of starship trooper Here is a quote on freedom I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. I will accept any rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.” - Robert A. Heinlein

[@desertsoldier41]

@@Spider-Too-Too Exactly he knew that societies cannot remain free without self discipline and laws that actually make sense. Selflessness and a respect for the rule of law is just as important as natural rights that you are endowed with. Live like a liberal, govern like a conservative.

[@Moscato_Moscato]

There’s gotta be a Space Force joke around here somewhere

[@arnoldsherrill6305]

And I would like to know more!!!!!!!!

[@willinnewhaven3285]

The film isn't based on the book. It was already pretty much scripted before they even found the book. I guess the money made Ginny's last years more comfortable.

[@stephenmcqueen4029]

I had the book, the board game (Avalon Hill), and the 7” single (I lost my heart to a starship trooper). When the film came out, my life was complete.

[@aliendroneservices6621]

7:25 "Written in the early days of the Cold War, shortly after the US halted its nuclear weapons testing" The last atmospheric nuclear weapon test by the US took place on November 4, 1962. The book Starship Troopers was published in November 1959.

[@kylepatrie9305]

Heinlein is very correct about a civilization that lacks aggression. It can be seen in our country today.

[@HuffDaddyYT]

*Denise Richards.... God you are beautiful.*

[@Mr3DLC]

If they were bmore faithful ti the book we would have seen her bald:) but doogie howser would have died:(

[@mikefenton5634]

Probably in my top 5 fav movies.

[@eleSDSU]

Definitely in my 5 top movies.

[@jeremyrobinson5172]

Just finished the book and I found it quite good. I still love the movie though, having watched it first. I found myself comparing the two while reading the book. Wish I had read it sooner.

[@MrMovieRecaps]

Jeremy Robinson it’s a fantastic read and one myself I never read until a few years ago, a shame I missed out on it for so long!

[@Kevwardusa]

"Nothing of value is free; even the breath of life is purchased at birth only through gasping effort and pain. . .if you boys and girls had to sweat for everything the way a newly born baby has to struggle to live you would be much happier. As it is, with some of you, I pity the poverty of your wealth" This book is an absolute philosophical masterpiece and I cannot implore you to read it enough if you have not.

[@Moontrap]

I was told by one of the guys on the production staff that the reason we didn't get orbital dropping power armor and each and every member of humanities soldiers...was because the blew the budget on the bugs CGI and didn't have any more money to spend. Also, I think Robert A Heinlein's purpose for the book wasn't simply a propaganda piece, but (like all of his books) was used to show a different social society humanity could use to function in the future. I honestly doubt they will make another movie based on his work because (without heavy editing) because his books showed how humanity, using logic and working together, could concur the stars...while all humanity is now interested in is blaming other for their problems and going along with the collective mob mentality...

[@ataridc]

There's nothing "humanity" can do to conquer the stars when the average person is concerned with feeding themselves and their family but you could blame government spending on weapons that kill more efficiently while having little real interest in space

[@shanequinlan9774]

Book Rico : heavily implied to be Filipino.

[@StardragonTheCanadian]

Much as how the Robin Hood stories strongly imply that he is an Englishman. Rico is Filipino. Full stop.

[@CountSpartula]

"The most fascist elements of the book" I don't see much fascism in the book. Infact i see a lot of stuff that rails against both Communism and Fascism. Its a hell of a lot more Jingoistic and hardline Libertarian than it is Fascist.

[@Jim-jv8np]

Most people today unfortunately think that fascism is the opposite of communism rather than being two implementations of the same ideology.

[@Garl_Vinland]

I think it’s the nationalist aggresionism that people are referring too. A trait that exists in both America and Nazi Germany.

[@PonzooonTheGreat]

@@Garl_Vinland I'm pretty sure the federation is justified in invading the bugs after they wipe out Buenos Ares killing millions.

[@petercarioscia9189]

@@Garl_Vinland nationalistic aggressionism isn't a part of the United States. Our GOVERNMENT sure likes to start wars on flimsy reasoning, but these QUICKLY sour with the American people. From Vietnam to the middle eastern debacle started by Bush *SENIOR* and on going to this very day. You're conflating the USA Military industrial complex with general Americans culture, which is frankly an insane misrepresentation.

[@Garl_Vinland]

@@petercarioscia9189 The government reflects the people as a whole. You put these people in office, same as the German people elected Hitler as chancellor.

[@filiperodriguesaquin]

I'm brazilian and the opening sentence of this video made me laugh nervously :'D

[@Schlabbeflicker]

In the book, nobody is "recruited" into service. While the federation made it possible for anyone to sign up, they actively attempted to dissuade recruits at every stage of the process. A high school actively recruiting soldiers is a strong departure from the source material.

[@Nicholas.Rogala]

I love this video. I've heard or read so many critiques of Starship Troopers where they clearly didn't read the book I read. This video is honest and fair to both the book and the movie.

[@NightHunter571]

There isn’t even any fascism in the movie and very little in the book the reason everyone thinks the is is because of Carl’s uniform and the director saying as much with a few shots like that early recruiting video being similar to nazi propaganda. The federation is closer in political structure to the USA than nazi Germany as it is a federal republic, admittedly a highly militant and meritocratic one but still, it’s not fascism.

[@jamesmccrea4871]

It's not even highly militant. It's the exact opposite. The book is set during the start of a war, and when Rico and Carl go to sign up they are dissuaded in the strongest terms. If the government was highly militant, they'd be welcomed with open arms and the people (like Rico's father and Dubois) would be harassing their children to serve. But they aren't, they are (at least before the bugs started attacking and smashed Earth) actually told: "You can't all be real military men; **we don't need that many** and most of the volunteers aren't number-one soldier material anyhow...[W]e've had to think up a whole list of dirty, nasty, dangerous jobs that will ... at the very least make them remember for the rest of their lives that their citizenship is valuable to them because they've paid a high price for it ... " Hardly militant.

[@RoyalKnightVIII]

The movie is clearly a satire of fascism, maybe not the more familiar European fascism but a more familiar US jingoism

[@geoffreysorkin5774]

One of the best satires of all time. One of the worst adaptations of ll time.

[@jamesmccrea4871]

It's a failed satire, that's why people actually love the movie and it has such a cult following.

[@PABSmalaga]

@@jamesmccrea4871 People hated it when came out

[@Maisonier]

@@PABSmalaga I love this movie

[@capscaps04]

@@jamesmccrea4871 It`s not really a failed satire, since a lot of people ot that it is a satire. I mean they even spell it for you at the beggining of the movie.

[@capscaps04]

@@PABSmalaga The hate came from the washington goverment department who labeled the movie and the Rico actor as nazis.

[@pandagamer-hg5be]

The book version sounds like something out of Halo

[@georgeorwell4534]

You left out Johnny Rico is Filipino, not Casper whatever at all. Heinlein said if glorifying the military means paying respect to the Bloody Infantry, the duckfoot, the soldier that puts his life between destruction and civilization, and pays the ultimate franchise with their lives, then yes it glorifies the military. He said it always got him; he got mor hate mail from that book, but it sells and sells and sells. It’s now in its 45th reprint, translated into 14 languages, and sells as many today as 1959.

[@baylinkdashyt]

This is the best contrast between Starship Troopers and Bug Hunt At Outpost Nine (the book's working title until someone uttered those fatal words "Gee; I wonder if anyone has the option on the Heinlein novel...") that I've ever seen; I (and most other Heinlein fans) thank you kindly.

[@Wongatello]

So much wrong with this video. Did you guys read the book or just the Cliff Notes? There's no nuke grenades, they'd kill themselves. There are mini-nuke rockets. Carl was killed on Pluto, not Jupiter. And the Federation isn't Fascist at all, it's more of a meritocracy. You also left out the fact that the directer admitted he never read the book, he just wanted to lampoon it because he perceived it to be something he didn't like. I read the book well after I saw the movie. As a kid I loved the movie, though that was more for the explosions and shower scenes. As an adult I can't stand the movie but the book is one of my all-time favorites.

[@deaddropsd1972]

Join us

[@MrSmith-zy2bp]

Dude, just think of the movie as a fun bug killing movie. Verhoeven failed at the satire of film, he made the Federation cool. And, yes, the book is awesome. The Federation in the book is the true sense of the word, a republic.

[@Wongatello]

@@MrSmith-zy2bp True, I'm just annoyed that this video is supposed to display the differences between the book and movie and it's like they didn't even do the research.

[@XplusX12345678]

They didn't mention one of the biggest differences.-- Juan Rico was a Filipino (or Asian) in the novel.

[@Lucivius27]

God forbid if a brown guy will take the lead.

[@--Paws--]

"I did my part!"

[@tildesarecool7782]

One thing I never understood about the movie: the talk shows keep saying the bugs are mindless animals with no intelligence one second and oh by the way the bugs flung an asteroid across the galaxy a thousand light years and not only some how hit the earth but hit one specific city on earth. Seems like some complex math and FTL technology would be required for that. Or maybe I put more thought into that than the screenwriters.

[@deaddropsd1972]

The movie is junk and inconsistent. The book Bugs we’re intelligent w space ships and energy weapons. Think Enders Game... Starship Troopers fans & Veterans!🕷I re-did the audiobook 📚 w sound 🔊 💥 effects and voice acting! 🎤 8 hrs. Please 🙏🏼listen 👂 and SHARE!!! FB page “Starship Troopers the book” kzbin.info/www/bejne/sKipfqawfrt6odE

[@johnsmithfakename8422]

I think it was meant to imply that the humans did not know much about the bugs and there was classified information on the bugs. If I remember correctly, there was a scene where the characters were talking about how unreliable intel was, and the shock that the bugs are intelligent.

[@politicalunrestproductions2805]

I am a huge fan of both the book and the movie for completely different reasons of course, but usually the movie is the only one that gets the love. I was very pleased too see an even handed assessment here.

[@comradecthulhu6052]

Was the first part of this review literally an “Orange man bad” moment? Wow.

[@Darksky1001able]

1st Amendment, everyones got it.

[@ThatSlowTypingGuy]

RE: Motive unclear - He did it to impress a girl. That's it.

[@Guts-the-Berserker]

*I like both versions, but I think Heinlein is misunderstood as glorifying it especially when he has characters that practically beg the main character not to join up.His version is a more idealized version of the U.S. in which you aren't even expected to join up and if you get cold feet you aren't tracked down. Both versions have good messages to come to a middle ground that works, you need to be able to be aggressive and ruthless when it is necessary but you shouldn't become the very thing you're fighting by devolving the entirety of society around war. You also forget the main reason the movie was different was because the people working on it thought it was too boring first and foremost, and that is fine considering that book wasn't written for the generation that made the movie. They're both excellent in the context of when they were made.*

[@MrMovieRecaps]

Guts The Berserker very well said and an interesting read, thank you. Both the Book and Movie have their place, compromise well and you are right about what Heinlein was trying to portray

[@johnsmithfakename8422]

I know this is a few years late but there is one detail you said that I would like to question. In the movie, the bugs were out to exterminate all life that was not bug or did not bend to their will. When the humans made the colony that first encountered the bugs, the bugs idea of first contact was exterminating the colony.

[@Alex13501]

Henlain wrote the truth, its not about constant agresion, quite the opposite. The problem happens, when you become unable to enact controlled agresion, when you stop facing problems with clear mind. When you start creating new words and meanings for obvious things and when saying the "bad" things could get you in trouble. The book never said violence is good, is just said what we all know: Violence can solve all problems. You cant deny that. That doesnt mean that we should always use violence, but i guess its hard to think between the lines.

[@Autobotmatt428]

I don't think paul read the book

[@killian9314]

0:50 not so subtle recruiting efforts? what? MR.Bubois and Rassack in the book and movie respectively Debate over this, and most students dont even wanna join or make points that suggest they dont like it, and its their choice, if anything is is said by rico himself that he thinks the service is above such pesky younglings, as disencouraging, and making only the cream fo the crop, the ones who trully want to do it, dew it

[@eleSDSU]

Duh, he is talking about the movie there, he in fact says that in the book is the complete opposite. Did you watch the video?

[@CRAZEERUSKEE]

Starship Troopers is not a fascist book Starship Troopers is not a fascist book Starship Troopers is not a fascist book Starship Troopers is not a fascist book Starship Troopers is not a fascist book Starship Troopers is not a fascist book Starship Troopers is not a fascist book

[@yootha12]

i love that shoutout to Michael FUCKING Ironside. BADASS

[@MrMovieRecaps]

chris FRENCH who doesn’t love Michael Ironside, what a man, what an actor!

[@a.j.kaufman7838]

Also, this was not the first movie based on Heinlein’s work. Back in, I think., 1949 there was a movie called Destination Moon. It was about a fist mission to the Moon based on a Heinlein short story. I saw it in 1950 when I was seven years old. I even made a model of the rocket (with a little adult help). There was a shot in the movie of the Earth above the Lunar landscape. I’m reminded of it whenever I see the famous photo taken from Apollo 8, “Earthrise”.

[@gogglespaesano8102]

The Puppet Masters came out before Starship Troopers

[@shawnwilson9579]

I love the book, hated the movie. Problem is, if the exact same movie simply had not been billed as Starship Troopers I would have liked it fine for what it is. But it takes such a steaming dump on the book I have to hate it.

[@MaxSMoke777]

Oh my friend, they take such a massive steaming dump on it, that it was as if the book ran over their dog, and the movie was their revenge! They run over and destroy every single element of the book, humiliate it, and kill it slowly with instruments of torture. I never read the book, my father did and his comment was "where were the mech suits?". Apparently, the movie is a HUGE MIDDLE FINGER to the book, full of anti-military and anti-right-wing sentiment, the likes of which has never been seen before. I really was under the impression the book was anti-American, military piece, written to humiliate the US government. It was one of the most left-wing movies I've ever seen, outside of Robocop 2. (the final 15 minutes they actually start lecturing the audience on the pros of Communism, I'm not kidding!)

[@NoESanity]

​@Dan Nguyen 1) the book is semi-anti-military as it shows the tragedy of war. the point of the book isn't "we need a military because we need to kick ass" the point of the book is "in order for us to remain free we need a force that is willing to pay for that freedom" The movie on the other hand is very anti-military as basically every scene can be summarized as "military man does something stupid bad things happen" fuck there is a scene in the movie where the bugs throw a asteroid at the earth and despite the fact that we've seen these same bugs tear through fucking starships people still think it was an inside job. 2) in the book the classroom speech is pro-right, how the threat of violence and the ability to follow through with it is what allows people to go about their day in nonviolent ways, be it the police force protecting us from criminals or the military protecting us from foreign threats. however in the movie while the same words are spoken they are spoken by a person who is treated like a joke, even his "if they get me do me the honor of a death instead of saving me" line is done to show that his concept of morality is corrupted and so dependent on war that he basically is only a functioning muscle of the military and not really a person anymore. 2a) right and left have nothing to do with traditional and new. right wing means and always has meant conservative, which while having tradition being a part of that ideology the bigger picture parts of the ideology revolve around not giving a fuck what other people do if it doesn't affect you. which actually would mean freedom is a right wing concept, as right wingers would allow someone the freedom to do stupid shit while other people don't get involved, where left wing liberals would force people to get involved and help you do stupid shit. (just look at drug use, right wing policies are, if you don't endanger people we don't care what you do with your body, whereas left wing policies fall into, we're going to try and fix you but also here are some clean needles and some anti-overdose injections in case you need it.) 3) yes the comment about how the bugs are perfect communism's seems like parody... because the entire movie is parody. but remember communism in the 90's was still a big thing, the actually fascist USSR had just fallen. Communism was still a target of fascism not the savior moronic pseudo-intellectuals like to pretend it is today. so in the movie you had militaristic fascism vs. communist fascism, of course they were both made to look like jokes because the movie is a satire about how fascism is bad mm'kay. in the book however the federation is as far from fascist as you can get. while we don't see a lot of their government (though we do see a fair amount) it is a small government with extreme and informed consent on all parties at all times with the ability to turn your yes into a no at any time for any reason without persecution. non-citizens were able to own property, businesses, wealth, weapons, and everything else expected from a free country except that they were unable to vote or hold office, however non-citizens did have representation and were able to take part in some government functions though they would not receive governmental powers (i.e. the ability to control the police, military or any other force). and with anyone being able to become a citizen, literally anyone regardless of race, creed, sex, ability or any other factors, no group of persons are persecuted again. (there is a part in the book where they talk about a blind deaf guy counting rice in antarctica as his term of service.) this is counterpointed by the fact that the bugs are a caste system, which while on the surface seems similar to the federation but even just after the surface layer is shown to be drastically different as thousands of lower caste members are sacrificed time and time again, just to protect one brain or royal bug. which is a vast and drastic difference from the federation military (especially the MI) who is using a small percentage of the population in highly trained members of the military to protect the civilians and citizens members of the society. Literally an All for One vs One for All dichotomy where the bugs represent the many sacrificing themselves for the few elites and the humans represent the few elites sacrificing themselves for the good of the many.

[@tylerslaght5588]

I read the book in highschool, when it got to the part where he runs into his father on the drop ship i found it rather disheartening. It made me think they were losing the war and like in Nazi Germany when they were losing the war the old men, and children were pressed into service.

[@drakolobo]

it was not forced the point of the service is that it is voluntary and that is the central axis, the father only joins as a result of the loss of his wife toilet refers, "I must prove to be a man" to leave his wealth voluntarily

[@RW77777777]

I used to really like playing the board game adaptation with all the cardboard squares and surface/underground hex maps poor skinnies

[@aaronfleischman5093]

You know I feel it's pretty cool that, as a huge 40k fan, that I've heard all about how the Guardsmen are like the soldiers from Starship Troopers, and that's true in the movie, I noticed that the soldiers in the book are more similar to Astartes being clad in power armor, being strong, and agile

[@kaseyboles30]

The movie was a spoof of a book the director never really read (he couldn't get past the first chapter, apparently it went right over his head. He had an intern/aid summarize the cliff notes to him) the book. A few names were the same, that's about it. They completely left out the third species and the power armor, got Juan's (Jonny's) heritage wrong. And completely failed to bring up any the core concepts or ideas in the book and pretty much wrecked the plot.

[@TheCreepypro]

I love the movie but the book for once actually sounds better I might have to pick it up and actually read it

[@tychoMX]

Do yourself a favour and read it. Even if some things put you off, there are lots of very lucid reflexions in it. The movie is entertaining in an Alien Vs. Predator kind of way, but totally misses the point. One example: 1. Critique to all contemporary militaries (and most historical): "Everybody works, everybody fights" (not the bullshit "everybody fights no one quits" from the movie. In the book, all MI do combat drops: Colonels, generals, chaplains ("would you believe in someone blessing something he's not willing to do himself"). The idea is that it's bad for morale (and ethically repugnant) to have higher-ups and politicians that direct the fights but literally have no skin in the game. The arguments regarding use of violence, capital punishment, and human space expansion are well built. I won't say they are entirely convincing, but they are not idiotic. In particular the part where it's stated that violence has "solved" most of the conflicts in history is (sadly) true.

[@Jim-jv8np]

The book is to the movie what the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is to a 4 year old's crayon scribbles.

[@WakenerOne]

SOOOO many things you left out! In the book, men and women in the service not only don't train, fight, or billet together, but they rarely see each other at all. Only women are capable of piloting the ships, but their quarters are separate from the infantrymen. One of the most coveted duties on the _Rodger Young_ is guard duty at the door that leads to the bridge, because that's the only place where you, as a male, are ever likely to even SEE a woman. However, when you as a cap trooper are sealed into your capsule before being shot out of the ship (from low orbit, not skyscraper-height as depicted in the video), the voice you hear over the radio is always a woman's . . . because they want the last thing you hear before going into combat to remind you of what you have to live for! In Basic Training, there is another recruit named Hetrick who disobeys an order to lay frozen when he discovers that he's laying on an ant hill. Sgt. Zim pushes him back down, and Hetrick strikes him. Zim tries to leave the strike out of his report to the captain, but when Hetrick himself blurts it out, protocol gives the Captain no choice but to assemble a court-martial. Within a matter of minutes, Hetrick is tried and convicted for striking a superior during time of war. He is executed by hanging while the entire company watches. Rico learns from this and acts properly when his own disciplinary situation arises. In the movie, Rico ordered a squad member to remove his faulty helmet during a live fire exercise, resulting in the recruit's accidental death. He is eventually sentenced to ten lashes. In the book, Rico was squad leader during a computer simulated deployment in the field. At one point, he saw that he could deploy a nuke and kill all the bugs on the battlefield, but one of his own men would also be in range of the blast. Knowing that there was no actual weaponry to be deployed in the simulation, he ordered the strike. His battlesuit was immediately stripped of all power, and he was forced to stay as motionless as a statue for over an hour, and after getting a piece of Zim's mind (including the burn of having him ask what Colonel DuBois, his high school teacher, would think of him now), *Rico* was brought up on charges due to his reckless actions during a simulated exercise which, had it been an actual deployment, would have resulted in the death of a fellow soldier. Rico refuses to say anything in his own defense, deferring completely to Zim's report. He is sentenced to five lashes, and the incident is considered closed. In the movie, Rico is given a battlefield promotion to the Officer Corps. In the book, he goes to Officer Candidate School. While it's true that there was an undiscovered "brain bug" in both the book and the movie--and a specimen is captured by Zim, in the book, he did not get himself busted down to Private in order to secure a combat role. Also, in the book, the brain bug turned out to be among the physically smallest of the bug castes. It was roughly the size of the specimens the high school class was dissecting. The book is essentially a treatise on the moral necessity of war and the civic virtue of the soldier. The movie is a special effects-driven action rollercoaster.

[@wedgetaileagle9093]

Agree on most points, though Hetrick wasn't executed, he was flogged and discharged. The man who was executed was a deserter who took a small girl hostage and ended up murdering her.

[@WakenerOne]

@@wedgetaileagle9093 Okay, thanks for the clarification!

[@8ncient1]

"The book is essentially a treatise on the moral necessity of war and the civic virtue of the soldier" so basically a book espousing evil and fascism, right? And just as the video showed, the movie stands as a counterpoint to all of that by showing how terrible that philosophy is, lest our society head in that direction. Which it kind of is anyways... In short, the movie serves as a modern critique of its source material. Which is great, as a critique of the horrendous ideas in it is very much needed.

[@WakenerOne]

@@8ncient1 No, not a book espousing evil and fascism. Not sure how you get that. There was a great line in The Lord of the Rings from Eowyn: Those who do not have swords can still die upon them." More than just a means of restating that it's good to never fight, but it's better to always know how, it's a commentary on the fact that there is evil out there. There are always those who want to do harm to others. At least there have always been, and it doesn't look like that will be changing anytime soon. Frequently throughout history, those who seek to impose their will on others, no matter what the cost and no matter how many of the others may be harmed in the act, frequently, they are organized. And in order to preserve those who would be harmed, these enemies must be repelled. In an organized fashion. Is it evil to protect the innocent from the loss of life and liberty? Is it fascist to maintain an optimum level of preparation, especially when the enemy is known to be out there?. It is _virtuous_ to voluntarily risk one's life to protect innocents one will never meet . . . innocents who may be utterly thankless and call one evil even while one is dying for them. And it is morally necessary to oppose the forces intent on destroying the liberty and lives of the innocent, be those forces domestic or foreign. Domestic threats must be met with a vital judiciary and law enforcement, and foreign threats must be met with a strong, prepared military. If you think that philosophy is terrible - and that _is_ the philosophy of the book - then I hope you come to understand how terrible it would be the day those enemy forces arrived . . . but there *were* no military forces prepared to wage war against them.

[@wedgetaileagle9093]

@@8ncient1 How does one come to such an intellectually bankrupt opinion of the book? I have to believe you didn't read it, otherwise I don't see how you could possibly take this flimsy and poorly thought out summary from it.

[@hizacaine]

If the soldiers don't have power armor and skeleton earrings then it ain't Starship Troopers, period end of story, ruined, ruined, ruined, poop.

[@alnu8355]

I'm pretty sure Heinland was also being cheeky if his follow up "Stranger in a Strange Land" was any indication.

[@seanfisk2252]

I love both the book and the movie, and you nailed both. Spot on.