Cinema Cameras: Alexa Mini vs Canon C200

Every filmmaker and photographer gets the urge to upgrade, when is the right time?
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Nick Thomas , DP www.nickthomasdp.com
Armondo's Alexa Mini vs Canon C200 video • Canon C200 Vs Arri Ale...
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[@yuidfbse]

The biggest problem I have with most anamorphic lenses (except the top end most expensive ones.. and even those..) is that in the grand scheme of things, most are optically mediocre and introduce extremely noticeable aberrations all across the image specially outside the center area. And and no I'm not talking about oval bokeh or the flares or their classic barrel distortions, all of which are desirable on anamorphic. I'm talking about the real kind of chromatic flaws not desirable on any kind of lens. Ironically, the best and cleanest anamorphic lenses that I have ever used (and that's because of the lens to sensor size ratio) are the ones available for the iPhone from companies like Moment and couple others. If you think about it, an equivalent anamorphic lens for super 35 or full frame camera compared to the one on the iPhone sensor/lens to anamorphic ratio, would be an absolute monstrosity.. far bigger than the existing professional anamorphics currently already are for any cinema camera. But with that monstrosity and (completely impractical) larger glass, also comes a much weider optical glass surface and of course, a vastly optically distorted-free cleaner output. The absolute perfect corner to corner distortion and aberration free images coming out of the small anamorphics for the iPhone, is, in the grand scheme of things, unbeatable. And they cost about a hundred bucks. Yeah, of course, you're shooting on an iPhone!..duh. And, do I like to shoot on an iPhone? No! Can you do any sort of professional anamorphic work on an iPhone? I mean.. you "can", but not really. The point here is that its ironic that positively the cheapest way to get into true anamorphic cinematography, is actually the optically most perfect that I have ever used at any price. Tyler, if you've never played with any of these small anamorphics for iPhone, go try one out sometime and get ready to be blown away. You won't believe your eyes on just how good they really are. Cheers:)

[@stalman]

Great comment, thanks! I do use the Moment anamorphic but there’s only so much I can really do with it. And you’re totally right about image quality, it always seems weird how much barrel distortion DPs are comfortable with But I still dig the look 😊

[@arsenymun2028]

"Pulled few models" woah, easy there dicaprio

[@ThisIsTechToday]

Wow. This was masterful. I love the way the Quasars turned out. Too. Great color grade, great music, pacing, and so dang interesting. Thanks for making this. Tyler!

[@gilleojax]

Great video and thanks for the comparison ... I appreciate you breaking down the differences ... I can’t wait to see what you produce with the Canon

[@wesleychapman9001]

Tyler has been pumping out some great videos for a while now and they keep improving!

[@mondobytes]

Thanks for the share Tyler 🙏🏼 love the video, the C200 is a beast!

[@stalman]

No thank you for making an actual useful comparison :) My video was just messing around, but it's so interesting to see these cameras properly tested.

[@mondobytes]

Tyler Stalman good to see we had similar conclusions.

[@CalebWojcik]

Totally agree with you (obviously since we talked about on your podcast). Just picked up a C200 to replace the RED I sold. You'll be happy with it. Loved this comparison video and how you based it more on usability than on numbers/spec sheets. Excited to see what you'll make with a C200.

[@woodypaul_]

I think you are to video what Sean Tucker is to photo. Both well spoken, analytically driven, unbiased opinions on the industry and its tools as a whole. Your topics are always interesting, your content is a blend of educated opinion and factual data, and I always look forward to your videos.

[@AndyKunkel]

I really love your content! C200 is my dream camera, hope to get it someday.

[@raksh9]

Whatever you own, your overall daily rate should be what it would cost to rent the camera/lenses/gear from a rental house, plus your daily rate as a cinematographer. This becomes more and more important as the cost of your gear increases.

[@franxcz]

My recommended videos list is starting to favor KZbinrs that upload shorter videos with high production value less frequently. I'm glad that this is a trend but I turned on the notifications for you just to be sure. Don't want to miss anything. Keep it up!

[@DanielPeacocke]

There is a smaller cheaper way to do Anamorphic! :D Take a look at vintage anamorphic projection lenses! You can easily adapt them to regular cameras, and a really good setup will cost between $1k and $2k

[@PixelGRID]

What camera was used for talking head A-roll of just you only with a bicycle & tungsten bulb in the background? A-roll looked phenomenal.

[@lucian823]

PixelGRID I would guess it would be his camera (the C200)

[@iamivar]

I love how you made an actually fascinating and interesting video around the fact that you just wanted to be rigged up and shoot with the Alexa ;-)

[@stalman]

That was literally the only reason this shoot happened, I wanted to play with a big fancy camera

[@AngGabriel]

great video. Thoroughly enjoyed it. I'd recommend you look at Fuji XT3. Closest you'll get to Alexa in terms of color science. 4:2:2 10bit as well and downsampling from 6k to 4k. Soft yet sharp. Really a marvelous camera. But about 2 to maybe 3 stops away in the dynamic range from the Alexa

[@punkrachmaninoff]

As a regular Sony PXW-FS7 user, I am VERY pleased with my Fuji X-T3...

[@WraithWTF]

Just one thing to note on the anamorphic lenses, there are cheaper alternatives like the SLR Magic Anamorphot-CINE lenses coming out in the market that offer some really good quality glass for (relatively) affordable prices, especially compared to the traditional lenses that are crazy expensive.

[@98JamesNixon]

I love my GH5s 10 bit in vlogL, hard to go back to 8 bit once you have tried it!

[@benjiwill]

NXN Music I just did a shoot for a music clip using my A7III and my friend had his GH5... wow the quality of the Panasonic was soo good! Very envious of that 10bit data! 😅

[@StevieFlix]

EVA1 w/ Shogun using the Zeiss Otus is also a great choice

[@pablomarin1746]

Any sub 10k camera with Otus is great

[@BTMovieSecondChannel]

Those first two seconds!

[@sickhcivc]

I own a c200, its amazing especially if you know how to expose and light a scene properly, the only reason I want something else is for higher frame rates, thats the thing that makes me hate the c200, 120fps in 1080p is soft and pretty useless.

[@thomassteibl1233]

oh man. your studio light setup is so nice. which camera are you using right now?

[@stalman]

Thanks! Studio tour coming soon. Ive been using the A7iii for the last year and still love it

[@rashidulislam8959]

You deserve more subs

[@wesleychapman9001]

Maybe we'll all luck out with a Sony a7Siii with 8k sensor and other incredible specs with a native anamorphic lens in the future.

[@StevieFlix]

Sony a7 shooter......

[@fristmane5342]

It would be so interesting if u make a content like editing fans pictures to what you want the picture to be.

[@eording]

Thanks for this, great conversation about camera choice. Something to consider, if you are willing to limit yourself to 2K you can own a used ALEXA Classic for less than $20K rigged out. I started my business with Panasonic GH4, added Canon C300 Mark II and last year decided that my clients almost never need more than 1080p so, using the ALEXA Classic, we could get an ARRI sensor and use cinema lenses to step up the beauty of the images (and give talented DPs a familiar tool for creating cinematic images). I definitely agree that the lenses are key. I frequently pair the ARRI and the Canon using Canon's Production Camera color matrix and colorists have no trouble matching the two. Sometimes buying the best (German) technology from 10 years ago can actually be a leap forward. Just make sure you get a good used camera with no dead pixels on the amazing sensor and you will not be disappointed with the images you can make.

[@stalman]

That’s not bad advice, I would to spend some time with the classic and most clients would be blown away by the results

[@flexfitness3443]

Very cool! What camera did you use for the talking head shots?

[@stalman]

Thanks! That was shot in raw on the C200

[@lescula]

In this video, there are samples of shooting at c200?

[@MatthewTyndall]

The mini isn’t really supposed to be fit run and gun, that’s the Amira’s role. Same sensor but in an all in one package.

[@zaichkowsky]

agreed, we have had a lot of issues with a7iii

[@samtheproducer]

Review the moment lenses (including the anamorphic)

[@2toesjoey]

Great video Tyler. Curios to see your thoughts on the Iphone Anamorphic lenses made by Moment? Be awesome to see a video review if you can.

[@stalman]

I’ve been shooting with it more often lately and definitely want to make a video soon

[@2toesjoey]

Tyler Stalman that would be great, looking forward to it.

[@wright96d]

Please respond to this ASAP. About to shoot some very unexpected, not given enough time to prep for, client work. Am considering the A7III with a ProRes HQ recorder. Did you use a recorder or were you recording straight in camera? I would imagine the banding wouldn't be as bad in that situation, and I'm planning to shoot in HLG anyway. If you did go external I'll probably rent a higher end camera, but if not might take my chances.

[@stalman]

I don't expect you'll see any significant improvement using an external record with the A7III, it will still output the same 8-bit signal. Other cameras do get a lot better when you go external, but I don't think the Sonys do.

[@sanjaysingha8911]

Working with cinema camera 10 bit footage is so much so much better than the a7iii 8bit footages. I actually downloaded a compressed footage and it was a breeze to edit.. it.no banding and noise...

[@paulwetzel4331]

The craziest thing is that this Alexa mini is the small “budget” of the flagship! They should name it Alexa R!

[@stalman]

😂

[@Maros_Mari]

Thank you for cool video, nice content. Just a sidenote, Sirui make anamorphic on the cheap side, worth to take a look perhaps.

[@stalman]

I’ve been keeping an eye on the Sirui and I’m curious to play with them but the optics just don’t look great. The blue of the flare is so oversaturated

[@ammralhalabi7363]

there is a cheap way to use anamorphic lens actually, there are some old big frame lenses that can be mounted on cameras like a7 series and I agree it look so damin cooler

[@martinguzman7704]

I would be really cool if you reacted to your old photos

[@DonnieGQX]

Alexa Micro? Would you do it where it was smaller than the Mini but had the same sensor for less.

[@JacksonHayes]

UGH, if only those rumors of Samyang/Rokinon making budget anamorphic lenses were true 😭 I'd kill for some sub-$2K (USD) anamorphics.

[@aleksreba]

What about the Ursa Mini 4.6K Pro G2? This offers Alexa like colors with 15 stops of dynamic range for less than what the C200 costs.

[@docteja2374]

but no autofocus...which i feel is a must for one man band

[@joeegasm]

Docteja autofocus is definitely not needed for a one man band

[@TheBjornarv]

Well, how did the c200 compare? Wish you said some more about that, beyond the 1 second image compare. This video is leaving me with a lot of questions about the c200, and yes, with a lot of answers regarding Alexa. I liked your discussion about equipment price vs returned value, and I guess that was what this video was about, but knowing you rented the c200 for the day I was expecting more. And now my feeling are hurt. Nah, just kidding😂 Anyways, in general, like ~99%: thumbs up!

[@ESSECIFILMPRO]

tripods, dolly, steadicam , a crew , those level of cameras is fot high end clients to have a balance production distribuition cost

[@mayorof2ndstreet202]

Thoughts on grabbing an Amira? It’s a bit cheaper of a buy and it’s built to support a bit of a more run and gun. It’s still a huge beast and Not as easy as the C200 but it could be a good in between.

[@stalman]

That Amira would be awesome but (spoiler) I already picked up the C200 😁 Honestly, autofocus is incredibly helpful for the way I shoot

[@mayorof2ndstreet202]

Tyler Stalman Oh nice! Honestly anytime you’re filming anything that needs an Alexa you should probably have an AC or focus puller anyway. Nothing beats that duel pixel autofocus when you’re a one man band.

[@stalman]

The way I’m looking at the C200 is as a gradual step towards the “real” cinema world, to see how it fits in with our client work.

[@mayorof2ndstreet202]

Tyler Stalman I totally agree with your decision, the C300 mkii and C200 are the next best things.

[@LsArts]

I think there are anamorphic adapters for your spherical lenses available if you like to mess with it a little. (e.g. turning a 16:9 image into a 2.4:1)

[@stalman]

There are adapters, but I actually don’t care about the wider image. I just love the look of them

[@LsArts]

don't you get the look? you get the sharper Picture and I thought the anamorphic bokeh as well, but I realize now that, concerning the bokeh, I was probably mistaken. It is dawning on me, that I forgot an embarrassingly huge amount about anamorphic lenses

[@98JamesNixon]

Try the Panasonic EVA-1, has internal 10 bit with smaller file sizes. Just hasn’t got the autofocus of the Canon C200

[@stalman]

The EVA also looks great, but I’ve been living Canon for 15 years now, and based on comparisons I watched the C200 has a few nice advantages

[@MrObiorah]

The black hair lady will not stand still. ARRRRRGHHHHHHHH!!! 😂

[@priyadeepgiri4501]

200d is enough for me !!

[@TheBromie]

Give it 3 months The gear lust kicks in

[@BestAudiovisualTricks]

I can’t tell if those speckles are dandruff or just the fabric pattern. Amazing video nonetheless! 🏆

[@stalman]

My wide said the same thing 😅 it’s the texture of the sweater

[@airdailyx]

There is a small cheaper way to achieve anamorphic through the use of anamorphot adapters for conventional lenses. It may not replace a $20,000 lens on a $100,000 camera, but it gets you fairly damn close if you know what you’re doing.

[@patricknewman5429]

What are those grids on the quasars?! I want them!

[@stalman]

Honeycrates!

[@nonsapvisuals]

it's only between us camera geeks and filmmakers that notice. we know we can pull a good shot out of a 400$ dslr and make it unnoticable when compared to 5 figure cameras...

[@felixsimardt]

use HLG 3 on the a7iii Bro, its insanee

[@chrisswoboda]

Félix Simard you’re so right! I just experienced this for myself, using the leeminglut

[@felixsimardt]

@@chrisswoboda nicee! You should try Heulandite by lutify.me

[@MR._Mukherjee]

Wow. Wow. Wow

[@leecason9468]

Tyler the problem is the a73 you don't need a cinema camera to get better commercial video. A gh5s or Fuji xt3 or a bmpcc 4K would be much better buys for that. Your problem with the banding comes down to a lack of bitrate and a lack of 10 bit color. You don't need raw video to make better commercial videos

[@stalman]

10 bit would definitely solve that specific issue, but the C200 checks off a lot of other important features like internal ND, XLR in, native EF mount, great AF etc. The A7III is still a great B cam, but I want to start using a proper cine camera

[@leecason9468]

@@stalman that's a good point! Personally other than the AF, the bmpcc would be a much more cost effective solution as it has mini XLR and a really nice variable nd filter can go on the front of your lens.

[@stalman]

The black magic looks awesome, it’s going to be a game changer for a lot of people

[@arsenymun2028]

make video on film movie cameras

[@suprantahazarika2105]

0:34 That's why you shouldn't always shoot in S-Log. Did you tru HLG or Cine 2

[@stalman]

Yeah HLG seems like a really interesting solution. Most of my channel is shot in Cine2 and Cine4,

[@UrielMaldonado]

what aspect ratio is this?

[@stalman]

2:1

[@edmn]

Time to go mute the Echo…

[@stalman]

😂

[@imiy]

Ok, sticking with my Panasonic G7 for now then :D

[@stalman]

Great camera! dont upgrade any more often than you have to

[@Albertoepicness]

Compare gh5 or gh5s

[@Jinx-xi6wm]

who would dislike this its so pretty

[@DENTT7]

C200

[@user-ux5hp6vp2t]

I see banding on Alexa also

[@DanCThorpe]

Sponsored by Canon "If your looking to upgrade to an EOS-R" lolz....The A7III is a fantastic hybrid camera that if you know how to use can get amazing results. Why the hell would you buy a C200 when the Blackmagic pocket 4k exists?

[@jackjoslin1064]

moment anamorphic lens

[@ferni0]

Huge $100k camera “mini”

[@stalman]

If you see it all stripped down, it’s not much bigger than the C200

[@AdamKuzniar]

I'm wondering why aren't you thinking about the GH5? I'd wager that the GH5 shooting 4k 10 bit with the GHAlexa lut applied would match a lot better than the C200.

[@CoveringFish]

The c200 is known for matching the Alexa mini

[@AdamKuzniar]

@@CoveringFish Not saying it isn't, but saying the GH5 could match better.

[@CoveringFish]

Adam Kuzniar look the gh5 is a great camera. But no it couldn’t do better. Even if you can get it pretty close the colors on canon (not a believer of canon) but I own a 1dx mark ii and used the c200 on shoots multiple times, it would take a lot more work with a gh5 to get it to look close but then u have the issue of sensor size and low light, and a whole host of issues. Don’t compare 2 cinema cameras to a stills camera that’s great for video.

[@AdamKuzniar]

@@CoveringFish > it would take a lot more work with a gh5 to get it to look close But the work has been already done lol. There's a lut that applies Alexa-like colors to GH5 Vlog footage. I mentioned it in the original comment. >issue of sensor size You mean the sensor that has less crop with speedbooster attached than the C200? >low light Pretty good up to 1600 IMO, similar to Alexa I think >Don’t compare 2 cinema cameras to a stills camera that’s great for video. That's such a 2000s way of thinking ;) GH5 is more a video camera than it is stills.

[@MustafaAlNuaimi]

BMPCC4K?

[@joeo.8034]

A camera can be as cumbersome or as streamlined as you build it.... This video is assuming all kinds of bullshit that just isn't true. I've seen a ton MORE of these DSLR builds being CRAZY cumbersome with shit dripping off the sides just to make it a working system. I've owned real professional systems my whole career and never once did I "need" a team to use my damn camera (owned Varicam, various RED, and now Alexa). This is actually quite backwards considering he's talking about the camera he is using(c200) being easier to handle by himself... then shows hes literally just has the camera body and a stills camera lens and is pulling focus from the barrel.... you CAN do the exact same thing with an Alexa mini! There's literally no difference. On a professional shoot, you more than likely want to have a focus puller and assistant not because you NEED them to use the camera, but to streamline and make the most of your time on set. This goes for any camera build. If you wanted the same abilities with the C200 as the Mini, well then you'd still have to add rails, wireless FF, teradek, mattebox, power management, ect... It actually becomes more cumbersome of a system because the C200's ergonomics are horrendous. The only thing true is the statement about diminishing results when you step up to more expensive systems, however thats true for literally EVERYTHING in life. From sound gear, cars, houses, electronics as a whole. That's just how the world works, nothing to do with cameras. So for you youngn's watching this, dont listen and get turned off by professional camera systems, they are all how you treat and build them. One of my cameras is an Alexa SXT Plus 4:3, and literally I can just slap a lens on it and go if needed. No need to rig extra things to put it on my shoulder, ect... It just works right out of the case. Your abilities/skill along with years of experience will determine when its right to own a better system, not anything else. Final thought is no one is going from a $5,000 camera to a $100,000 camera system in reality they are stepping it up as the years go by. Most Arri owners came from owning red systems, and before RED, Sony systems... the list goes on. As you get better, you up your camera game to match or exceed your limits so you wont be limited creatively. The opposite is also true in that, sometimes a tiny DSLR on a small gimbal is the way to go for some situations, I do both. Use the tool thats right for the job.

[@junjiah]

tempted to hit the first thumbs-down button...then I did it, twice :)

[@rahulhai5742]

I have canon 1000d 😂😂😂

[@JetSmackedHD]

i can afford the Alexa just not in this life

[@daniellemozy9680]

No reel test...Just bla,Bla,Bla...Test sans intérêt.??????