Everything Wrong With Rounders In 23 Minutes Or Less

Outtakes are here: • Everything Wrong With ...
Rounders is a movie that a lot of people love, especially poker players. It's certainly compelling. And sinful. So sinful.
Next week: Classic comedy sins & musical sins.
Remember, no movie is without sin. Which movie's sins should we count next?
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[@CinemaSins]

Outtakes are here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/inzao3-Yo82XbJo

[@anthonyramos588]

November 16: Everything Wrong With Meet The Parents November 18: Everything Wrong With In The Heights

[@zooey5959]

ROMANTIC🔞-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------🌹 Hot.snapgirls.today/Tatsuhisha?Private-Cam 💕 Special Edition For You Private Live-HDRcam✰[I WANT S€X NOW]💜 Gaze: "Amazed" Lips: "Sensual" Smile: "Sweeter" Body: "Colder" Жизнь, как красивая мелодия, только песни перепутались. #однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков #垃圾

[@bloober...]

nice

[@yurdp]

Why are you trying to boost your channels view count by making the outtakes separate?????

[@jsarine]

@@yurdp What they did was look at their metrics and see that most people don’t stay for the outtakes, so they cut them and moved them to a separate video. This makes their engagement numbers better so KZbin will actually pay them rather than screwing them out of revenue because people quit the video early. It also allows folks who like the outtakes to still go see them if they want.

[@doa766]

I've seen Rounders like a dozen times and I never ever got the impression that MIke got his 30k by beating Chan, and if I remember correctly he implies almost the opposite: MIke says something about not having a lot of money that night but just needed to know if he was good enough, so it was more like a symbolic hand, not really about the money. Beating Chan in one hand gave him the confidence to risk 30k with KGB, it didn't give him the 30k.

[@TheMunz]

Exactly, the beginning of the movie implies that it's the first time Mike's ever put his whole bankroll into play at once, so even the $6k plays with against Johnny Chan is just a fraction of his bankroll. Granted, he was playing much bigger stakes than he usually plays (according to the movie he usually buys in for $500), but I've got to imagine he had at least 2-3x that by that point.

[@jerryvalentino1065]

You are definitely correct, was looking for this comment the second I watched this video

[@deucepickle2091]

Agreed. When he said he didn't remember how he built his stack, he was walking into that rich kids poker game. So I always assumed that's what he was talking about.

[@smokinjoe4709]

Correct, he was a grinder who learned from Knish. He usually bought in for $500. His 30K bankroll was built up over his first year of law school (movie calls it 1/2 way through but law school is 3 years). The second year of law school he just drove the truck.

[@kevinjohnson4531]

I commented on another video a couple of years ago. WRT to the Johnny Chan limit hand.... notice that Chan only has like $7000 in chips in front of him. He has some $100s as well, but not a lot. Maybe 10 max. So if you're just talking about how many BBs, he only has like 13. It looks like Mike has about $6000 (10BB). So while that line about needing $60K to play in the game might be technically correct (though in limit most people will buy in for 30-50 BBs), I've also never seen a $300-$600 limit game except online. Anyway, the minimum buy-in is usually 20BB. They might have been allowing short-buys of 10BB to fill the table up though. At 9:21. it's also obvious this isn't the beginning of the hand. There is already a flop and a pot. Hard to tell the pot size, but assume it went SB -> BB -> Chan Raise -> Mike call. That would be $1650. It appears no one else is in the hand. After the flop you can see Mike led out $300. As he said Chan raised. This bet would be $600. Mike then raises to $900 (you can see the chips in front of him at the 9:21 mark, though his bet is already in front of him before Chan raises at the 9:27 mark. that's probably an editing mistake). So at this point there is $3150 in the point. Chan raises again (9:44) so now it's $3750. Mike then apparently caps it. So pot is $4350. Now why would Chan fold here... It's hard to see the flop, but it looks like 3 face cards. The thinking from Chan might have been he had top pair. But if he believes Mike's story and thinks Mike flopped the straight then he's < 3% and will have to call down another $1500 in bets to find out. He's in the pot for $1800. Especially in limit, players don't bluff often as it's not that expensive to look someone up. A lot of amateur players probably pay Mike off if he really has it, but a pro might make a pro lay-down in that situation. So yeah, Mike only won $2250 in this hand, but it was a confidence boost that he could play against a pro...

[@Hendrix7711]

The Phil Hellmuth call out for sin 110 is so hilarious!

[@aserra2026]

right? ahaha

[@NationalSportsEntertainmentNSE]

The second GOAT after Stu

[@robertcampbell4063]

@@Hendrix7711 and that it happened after Teddy shouted “MOTHER F***ER!!” was gold

[@skins4thewin]

"Pay that man his money" is one of my favorite lines in movie history. & yeah, I couldn't care less how bad the Russian accent is. It's freaking perfect as far as I'm concerned.

[@TheSuperhomosapien]

peyyyyy dat mahn his mahhneeyyy

[@blackleague212]

Your favorite line in cinema history is " wakanda forever" so stop lying. Here's proof kzbin.info/www/bejne/oF6ofXp_lp1ri80

[@marklewen9384]

He beeeeeeet me...

[@skins4thewin]

@@marklewen9384 "Straaaaight aaaahp".

[@skins4thewin]

@Midnight Movie Man Lol he runs a gambling establishment. He can't just not pay ppl who win. Word would get out real quick.

[@herts9999]

Impressed with the amount of poker knowledge CinemaSins has!

[@jsarine]

Yeah, one of them has actually gone and entered the WSOP before. Can’t remember if it was Barrett or Chris… don’t think it was Jeremy, but I could be wrong.

[@ashtonoak4370]

@@jsarine Barrett

[@greynotgray6808]

Yeah he impressed me during Billy Maddison, too!

[@elastoid5459]

I felt the opposite. They criticize him for saying he was outplayed as if his only options were to fold the full house or go all in. He's not in a tournament! He raised his whole stack! He could have just called!

[@guywilliams6569]

Gambling is good... Oh wait..

[@Tanstaafl_74]

I've always liked that you can tell when he likes a movie. He's still vicious to it, but the amount of sin removals and backhand comments goes up two or three fold.

[@Dutchy80]

Knowing Edward Norton, he probably spent 6 months playing poker and lossing to the Russian Mob and run up a debt just to be "Authentic" 😂

[@matthewdubay1180]

Do you always laugh at your own jokes?

[@youtube.commentator]

Lossing?

[@Richer.mb.townpump]

I heard Norton actually went gay to get into his Sausage Fest Character ..

[@robertstauffer2865]

In the DVD commentary, Johnny Chan states that he has never asked anyone "Did you have it?" in his entire life. But, the producers of the movie paid him a lot of money to say it here, so....

[@joshuamitchell5530]

The biggest sin in this movie is that Mike said he sat down at $300/$600 with 6 grand to play with Johnny Chan, ie. 10 big blinds. He folded mostly for an hour yet somehow had enough chips to 5-bet Chan and get him to fold.

[@ThisHandleFeatureIsStupid]

It was fixed-limit, but yeah...still ridiculous...made even more ridiculous by the claim that he "bided his time" before getting involved. In a fast game, he would have folded his way to broke by the time that hand came up. lol

[@Dreamline78]

It would be 20 big blinds, and 10 big bets. The big blind is equal to the small bet in a limit game.

[@joshuamitchell5530]

@@Dreamline78 ah okay thanks

[@richcheckmaker]

He would have gone like broomcorn's uncle if that were true.

[@ptbot3294]

Don't get what's a big deal that you can bluff a pro, no matter how good, ONCE. Mean almost nothing.

[@PHXDOG]

I used to hold a bi-weekly poker tournament at my house in the 2000's. This movie would play on a loop on the big screen in the background. After about a year guys and girls would act out the movie while playing kinda like what people would do at showings of Rocky Horror. I would have players that looked a little like some of the secondary characters show up in outfits matching them and when their parts came up act them out word for word.

[@ravenrose5712]

Fandom is a truly gorgeous thing.

[@neilgodfrey2669]

Sounds quite sad

[@Tardisntimbits]

@@neilgodfrey2669 Why, because people were having fun? Don't harsh people's mellow, I'm sure you have quirky things you love, and that's great too.

[@FantasyCouch]

@@neilgodfrey2669 I think when people are having a fun time and enjoying themselves, even if it's something that seems silly, and then someone taking time out of their day to say that's "sad" is in fact quite sad.

[@bearatts]

In the professional poker world, poker fans are corny and tiresome. Always ask questions about how a game was, or who won the tournament, or if anyone they know made the cash in a tournament. Over the course of playing professionally for 17 years, I've started to just say I don't, can't remember. The Rounders movie quote guys are always annoying, quoting this fucking movie every 2 minutes. Ugh

[@Guy_With_A_Laser]

Sometime I would love to see a Poker movie where they actually use the players' skill at reading as a real dramatic point. Not where they both have massive improbable hands that basically play themselves. I remember watching one interview with (I think it was) Doyle Brunson talking about one of his favorite hands he ever played, and he explained how he was playing for a draw, completely missed, his opponent went all-in and he calculated that the opponent must also be on a missed draw, and called the all-in with Jack high, beating the opponent's 10-high. I think something like that would make for a way more dramatic moment than "Oh, I flopped the nuts, I guess I win".

[@ThisHandleFeatureIsStupid]

Agreed 100%. The movie is terrible overall, but this concept was one of the few things done right in "Lucky You". During the WSOP Main Event, the protagonist makes three consecutive hero calls with a middling pair of fives to bust the villain (Michael Shannon) and his whiffed AK. If more poker movies featured hands like that, I'd be more into watching them. But instead we get shit like Casino Royale. 🤦‍♂️

[@ian625]

that guy, by the way, was the legendary Johnny Moss. I know that hand too because I read it in super system. He felt Moss was drawing to a gutter so he made the call.

[@Noir0rioN]

@@ian625 epic. Ty for not making me look that up!

[@demond1818]

@@ThisHandleFeatureIsStupid I'm not a great poker player, but that scene in Casino Royale was over the top!! Everyone had great hands!!

[@NationalSportsEntertainmentNSE]

I feel like the hand reading would be conveyed best in an anime . “I raise” “Uaghh, How did he know!?”

[@gillianorley]

I’d say the reason they provide for why Mike puts up with Worm is pretty convincing. Worm got expelled and locked up for something both he and Mike did and he never rats on Mike, so his life doesn’t get fucked up and he ends up in law school instead of prison. No matter how you figure it, Mike owes Worm big.

[@skins4thewin]

I love it because a lot of us that happen to be super loyal have had that one piece of crap friend that we just can't seem to kick. Worm reminds me EXACTLY of a very specific ex-friend of mine, to the T, & I love this movie for that.

[@carlmarks8170]

They also appear to be best buddies... Lots of people have close friends who drag them down.

[@YTEdy]

Yup. Doubly so because Mike was in law school at the time, and probably wouldn't have been if he'd been kicked out of the prep school they attended.

[@raymondseiter8182]

There even

[@interestedparty7523]

And just childhood friendship loyalty.

[@shtarker5493]

“Talking about poker winnings that you need to pay off a loan shark in the middle of a barbershop”? Why not? The barber might know someone from the old country that can help you with loan sharks!🤣

[@carlmarks8170]

Nah... They always do this in the movies... It makes the scene more visually interesting & drives the story quicker to have them discuss the financial state of play whilst they're getting a shave. They don't have time in movies to make this two separate scenes 1. where they sit in silence in the barber's chairs followed by 2. them discussing how much $ they need over a cup of coffee immediately afterwards. That would be a boring 4 hour movie.

[@LearningFast]

Teddy KGB had Aces on the final hand. Since an Ace fell on the river he knew that the Ace “couldn’t have helped you”. Mikey could have had 3 of a kind and only pocket Aces would beat it then. Pocket Aces is the only hand that makes sense to play like that all the way through.

[@9k49]

If you freeze-frame, you see he has pocket tens. He flopped top set, didn’t think Mike had aces but in the excitement forgot about 98 for the straight

[@mattc3581]

I thought the point to giving away the tell was that, though it would make him money in the long run, he wanted to tilt Teddy KGB into playing recklessly and losing all his money quickly since he had to win everything in that sitting to pay the debt. It's a questionable choice but apparently it works out.

[@MatthewBaron]

You oversinned. Billy's Topless was an actual topless joint on 6th in the 90s. The sin belongs to the strip joint, not for the movie using the actual sign in an establishing shot.

[@Criner05]

But the movie still chose to use it.

[@88porpoise]

If the books don't matter, do you think the veracity of establishing shot strip clubs matter?

[@dreadz3758]

Damn, I can't believe you sinned the mitzvah scene man. You should've taken one off for it. And now, for that, you owe.

[@SNBSTL]

If you go frame by frame, you see Teddy's last hand flying through the air is 10 10

[@9k49]

Yeah. Not a lot of people know it but Teddy flopped top set, didn’t think Mike had aces but in the excitement forgot about 98 for the straight

[@IDDQDSound]

I was typing out how you may wanna sit this one out given your lack of poker knowledge, then video got to 2:08 Hidden talent of yours I guess :)

[@jjforaker]

This is an underappreciated movie and is a great pick. With that being said when are you going to rip apart F9? It could be done in 2 parts and get its own Fast and the Furious counter. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO F9: THE FAST SAGA. Thank you and I love this channel.

[@zooey5959]

ROMANTIC🔞-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------🌹 Hot.snapgirls.today/Tatsuhisha?Private-Cam 💕 Special Edition For You Private Live-HDRcam✰[I WANT S€X NOW]💜 Gaze: "Amazed" Lips: "Sensual" Smile: "Sweeter" Body: "Colder" Жизнь, как красивая мелодия, только песни перепутались. #однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков #垃圾

[@mariomaker69420]

sounds like a good suggestion

[@iamskippy]

Part 1 could _entirely_ be about how young DIESEL and Young CENA look about as related as Chris Rock and The Rock do. _Casting to Vin:_ *We have chosen the actor to play your brother…* _Vin:_ *So have I.* *Get me the guy who beat The Rock at Wrestlemania 2️⃣9️⃣* _Casting:_ ((Typing “I quit” in an email to Universal Pictures)) *That’s just who* _we_ *were thinking… Because we* _also thought_ *you guys look SO MUCH alike.* *That’s probably why The Rock hates you so much, because he’s tired of always losing to you. And of course the guy who looks like you.* 🙍🏼‍♂️

[@KThyme]

The Princess Bride reference earned this a like from me. Really do enjoy this movie, and I have no idea why.

[@joesjoeys]

I am EXTREMELY disappointed that Teddy KGB's "Check check check!!" scene is NOT included. Thought it would be a win because that line is awesome. But still!!!!

[@Hatz127]

This is blasphemy…. Also he didnt build his roll of the Chan hand, that was just when he knew he was good enough to play against players of that calibre.

[@allairson219]

Exactly, came here to post this. Mike had a $30k bankroll, he didn't get that winning one hand of 300-600 limit Hold Em against Chan. Especially since he said folded for an hour, so he was losing his blinds that entire Hour. The most he won from Chan on that hand was somewhere between $2400 and $3k with all the $600 raises, plus whatever dead money was in the pot from other Players. His bankroll wasn't built from that hand.

[@anthonyf596]

Well, the whole video is as crap as this guys voice and jokes, so its only fitting

[@LucianDevine]

Granted, him thinking he's good enough to play against players of that caliber because he "outplayed" Chan in a single hand is laughably stupid in it's own right. Mike is shown to know enough about poker to know that an amateur can absolutely bluff a pro in a single hand, because amateur's are unpredictable, and the pro naturally hasn't played with them long enough to get a read on their strengths, weaknesses, tells, and patterns. Mike was also mostly just folding for a lot of that session. Then he raises against Chan, gets raised, and raises again. Obviously Chan is going to think he's strong. We also never see any of the cards. So for all we know Chan also had trash, and was just trying to bully everyone like he'd been doing for an hour or more.

[@dcul8812]

@@anthonyf596 then why tf are you here? Lmao

[@anthonyf596]

@@dcul8812 Cause i wanted to know everything that was wrong with Rounders, prob the same reason as you and everyone else

[@thatfunk]

This movie is what really started the poker boom. Chris Moneymaker like a lot of people saw Rounders and started playing poker. And I guarantee that people who don't play poker won't understand any of the terminology you used lol

[@emoneyg33]

yep friends of mine started cause of this mess i play too but for fun they were convinced they were gonna get rich off it one still tryin..dmfs😂

[@gillianorley]

How many people here went out to pool halls with their friends to play Nine Ball after seeing The Color of Money? I guess I’m aging myself. Oh, by the way, Sin The Color of Money. Right after you do Sneakers.

[@neilgodfrey2669]

Moneymaker started the boom in 2003. This was 1999

[@ThisHandleFeatureIsStupid]

@@neilgodfrey2669 Not quite. Rounders yielded the very first distinct boom for NLHE, which created the wave that included players like Moneymaker. Moneymaker's WSOP win + the intensified ESPN coverage of the Main Event then supercharged the boom to create what we now call "The Moneymaker Effect".

[@LearningFast]

Fun fact: I went to grade school with Moneymaker in Knoxville. His nickname back then was “Money”.

[@IIARROWS]

22:57 people say "Good luck" even if you have to pass a math test, that requires much less luck then poker or any card game or most game in general. This deserves at least 10 sins.

[@Criner05]

Multiple choice tests say hi. But I guess that's still less luck. I misread your comment. I thought you said tests require no luck.

[@IIARROWS]

@@Criner05 Multiple choice are a joke, not a test. It's the kind of things you find in personality test, there is no place for that in school.

[@apollolux]

Malkovich's "Pyay thyat myan hyis myoney" is the fake Russian accent against which all other fake Russian accents are measured XD

[@jacksfather]

Hunt for Red October. Sir Sean didn’t even ATTEMPT to hide his Scottish accent. Not as English Bond, or the Spaniard in Highlander, or…..

[@brianpotter2812]

During an interrview, Matt Damon stated that the scene wasn't going well, and then John Malkovich stood up and said (in the same accent) that he was a horrible actor....freakin' hilarious! :D

[@erichabich7009]

My understanding of the Oreo tell was that he had a good hand if he put the Oreo to his ear as he opened it, as opposed to the time he folded when he just opened it in front of him.

[@JS-hw8ve]

I haven't seen it in years, but what I remember was if his hand was good, he ate the icing side first. But it's been so long I'm not sure, and this video doesn't have time to waste showing the whole cookie ritual each time.

[@mikekutzler]

I thought good hands he ate cream side others eat dry side

[@courtneyl3914]

OMG my favorite movie and I’ve been waiting YEARS for y’all to do it roast this ish😂😂

[@Franciscasieri]

Folding Petra before the flop was your best here by far especially when you parse out all the words

[@AjaxLefeuf]

I have to say some of the sins would apply if the movie was made today, but in 1997 (during filming) the poker world was pretty different. I came up playing in Tunica and Memphis then, and there was no No-Limit to be found. It wasn't until Moneymaker won that it took everything over.

[@laurajohnson833]

I absolutely despised Moneymaker - those stupid glasses were worse than Laak's stupid unabomber look. Him winning that bracelet was the beginning of the end of pro poker, imo.

[@smellsuperb1]

Agreed. PLO and 5-7 card stud were much more popular in the time this movie was filmed. Hold'em got popular because of the speed of the game vs PLO.

[@davidrobinson3168]

That would be a 50 year old New York Knicks reference, not a Washington Bullets reference. Clyde Frazier never played for the Bullets and when Earl Monroe played for The Bullets they were the Baltimore Bullets. They moved to DC in 73 where they were the Capital Bullets. At least he got the boxing reference correct.

[@joezagorski1507]

came here to also say this 🤣

[@blackleague212]

You do not have hair.

[@TTo-pr2vc]

Norton was a misunderstood friend .... that Oreo chip tray 🔥🔥

[@wattsnottaken1]

I still absolutely love Rounders. I just did my annual re-watch ❤️

[@thomasfisher5742]

that's the real answer SPARKS enjoy it for what it is......stay well fella

[@annapowell9203]

You've ruined me. I was watching a movie with my buddies, and the name of the movie was said... I immediately screamed "ROLL CREDITS" and now I have to explain why I was giggling hysterically as they stared at me in confusion.

[@trainerred6582]

Wow, I'm surprised CinemaSins actually plays poker. He knows all the terminology!

[@Dreamline78]

I've known it ever since I saw their Casino Royale video. Been waiting for them to get to this ever since.

[@kingayy9267]

Why are you surprised? It's an extremely popular game and you don't know them personally.

[@blackleague212]

@@kingayy9267 cinemasins couldn't play himself out of a staring contest with a mirror. Proof kzbin.info/www/bejne/oF6ofXp_lp1ri80 actually this is a gateway into hell.

[@SergeantExtreme]

That's because Barrett Share is actually a professional poker player who's entered the WSOP before.

[@Rallarbusen]

No sin for the flubbing of what could've been a great line? "Give me three stacks of High Society" should've been "Give me three racks of High Society". A stack is 20 chips, a rack is 100chips.

[@darrenl3289]

He wasn't referring to chips. He and the chip guy knows he is getting chips. He's asking for chips equal to 30 thousand dollars... 10k is one stack of High Society.

[@NationalSportsEntertainmentNSE]

No acknowledgement of the Goat,Stu Ungar-Ding

[@FantasyCouch]

I feel like CinemaSins didn't really understand this movie

[@LucianDevine]

I am so glad you mentioned how stupid the Jonny Chan bluff scene is. Mike should know that an amateur can absolutely bluff a pro in a single hand, because amateur's are unpredictable, and the pro naturally hasn't played with them long enough to get a read on their strengths, weaknesses, tells, and patterns. Mike was also mostly just folding for a lot of that session. Then he raises against Chan, gets raised, and raises again. Obviously Chan is going to think he's strong. Mike is shown to be very smart when it comes to poker, and he should know this. So him using that single hand as proof to himself that he's suddenly ready for KGB's table is stupid beyond belief. I think the main problem I have with Worm's character is that he doesn't lose enough when he's cheating. I get that he's not skilled enough to win straight up, and he knows that. He's also supposed to be an experienced cheater though, and any good cheater knows that you can't win big with big hands every hand you deal, or in this case him having Mike win big with big hands every time Worm dealt. We also know that Mike knows this, because he intentionally throws some hands when they were colluding and cheating in an earlier game. It's especially dumb in the cop game, because the room is filled with cops that are going to beat your ass and take your winnings if they catch you. If he was going to be so stupidly brazen, he should have done it against the 3 stupid college kids...

[@travisolson9413]

I really hate this movie and mostly for what you pointed out. If you hit a homer off of Roger Clemens in his prime, or dunk on Jordan in his prime as an amateur, that is saying something. If you beat a professional poker player in his prime, IN ONE HAND, that is nothing. It happens multiple times every night. Win a tournament, maybe. But I always thought that was a cheesy way to prove that you have what it takes because you beat a pro once. This movie made more money for pro poker players than they probably realize. I would have had a rack of oreos at every game I would have played back then just to mess with people.

[@Dreamline78]

@@travisolson9413 Even winning one tournament is not very impressive; anyone can go on a heater and win one tournament. See: Jerry Gold in 2006, or Jerry Yang in 2007.

[@travisolson9413]

@@Dreamline78 Yeah, you're right, which makes the whole scene in this movie even dumber.

[@LucianDevine]

@@Dreamline78 Oh Jamie Gold...I watched that main event that he won when it was playing live and goddam did he run good. Granted, he had to run so good because he was basically telling everybody whether he had a good hand or a bad hand every time and they kept doubting him. He had so many crazy good runouts when he was playing with absolute trash, but any 2 cards can win if you are lucky enough. It was fun watching the first pro only game that he played, watching him get utterly destroyed because he no longer had any other amateurs to build a big stack off of, which is what allowed him to bully the other better players around. And of course when he tried to bully the better players and got caught with trash hands, he naturally had the aforementioned lucky runouts.

[@joshjanov]

The scene at the Taj in Atlantic City, is exactly how it was back in the 90’s

[@jaeusa160]

@18:25 You actually hit the nail on the head there. Sometimes you lose, but when you have something that statistically overwhelming in your favor, you better have a killer read to fold because mathematically it is probably incorrect.

[@neilgodfrey2669]

The scene where Matt Damon walks in and knows what everyone has is probably the worst poker scene in history. Absolutely ridiculous. Glad you pointed this out. Impossible!!!!!

[@Dreamline78]

He half-asses it, too. He tells Marinacci he can tell him what he's holding, but all he ends up telling him is what he isn't holding - the third 3.

[@neilgodfrey2669]

@@Dreamline78 but that means he has pocket 3’s then?

[@ThisHandleFeatureIsStupid]

@@Dreamline78 The thing that gets me the most is that one of his obviously-impossible "reads" is that one of them has two pair. They're playing Stud, and the action picks up on 7th street. There's something like 20-25 bets in the middle, and the guy is going to fold two pair because some jackoff kid said a bunch of cool-sounding words? I refuse that. Those judges are old and accomplished, I refuse to believe there would not be a single one of them who decided to pay $20 to make sure the young whippersnapper was as good as his behavior claimed, or, that not one of them wanted to have a shot at winning the pot outright. Even the pair of threes guy could have justified keeping him honest. In a game like this, non-showdown victories would almost never occur.

[@lilmane1070]

It’s awful, but it’s excellent compared to *this* scene: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nl6WYWOkppp3p7Msi=qH6jmyznYWh4hFvW

[@jmcb3019]

Probably in the comments somewhere, but the Tell is not that he opens a cookie. The Tell is that he LISTENS to the cookie on a good hand and LOOKS on a bad hand. Personally, I think that this is subtle enough for an audience to just barely pick up on, and therefore a good tell for the movie to give KGB. I think CinemaSins just demonstrated it.

[@ATEC101]

You have never split an Oreo in your life. It is always about the percentage of creme filling left on the 'Other' one.

[@jameservin4307]

The tell is when he eats the Oreo most people don’t eat when they’re nervous

[@ericbarnes7748]

I love that he adds a sin simply because "soccer." Those are my favorite moments of the entire series. Well done!

[@kentuckysugarbear9644]

How did you not remove a sin for the line “mike, you should have played those kings!”

[@illCMAC]

Oh no this movie is so good and cringe I'm afraid of this sin vid

[@zooey5959]

ROMANTIC🔞-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------🌹 Hot.snapgirls.today/Tatsuhisha?Private-Cam 💕 Special Edition For You Private Live-HDRcam✰[I WANT S€X NOW]💜 Gaze: "Amazed" Lips: "Sensual" Smile: "Sweeter" Body: "Colder" Жизнь, как красивая мелодия, только песни перепутались. #однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков #垃圾

[@mullaoslo]

Why are you afraid of a sin video? Is your opinion based on what the Internet tell you?

[@p_campbell]

@@mullaoslo If the internet doesn't tell me my opinion, how will I ever have one? 🤔

[@VespoLiveGaming]

The parking lot where the cop stud game happens is the Elks Lodge in Ridgefield Park NJ.

[@SorcererUB]

Note three : If Mike had the implied odds to catch the Jack on the turn, it wasn't luck; it means Teddy didn't bet enough on the flop

[@mullaoslo]

I've loved both this movie and the sopranos for over 20 years, seen both multiple times.. Why do I first now notice Carmelas dad is part of the judges game in the beginning?

[@chaowu5139]

Thanks, that's who he is. Knew he looked familiar

[@iamtheoz]

One of my favorite comfort movies. All of the weird things that nagged at me were expertly and humorously pointed out. Thank you for settling my annoyed subconscious! Another perfect breakdown of the silliness of a movie from my youth!

[@rakshitbisht3286]

can u sggest some other comfort movies?

[@wendelljones513]

HA! Love this. The boiler room NEEDS your treatment!!!!!!

[@Locadel2003]

Man John Malkovich was great and awesome in this movie, not only Matt damon, John turturro & Edward norton

[@zooey5959]

ROMANTIC🔞-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------🌹 Hot.snapgirls.today/Tatsuhisha?Private-Cam 💕 Special Edition For You Private Live-HDRcam✰[I WANT S€X NOW]💜 Gaze: "Amazed" Lips: "Sensual" Smile: "Sweeter" Body: "Colder" Жизнь, как красивая мелодия, только песни перепутались. #однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков #垃圾

[@Harv72b]

The interesting thing about that infamous bad beat hand Mike suffers to KGB at the beginning: from their perspectives, both players held the second nuts. Mike could only be beat by pocket aces, which KGB had. But KGB could've been beat by pocket nines, which makes his overabundance of smugness ill placed.

[@danhedges7917]

One sin for you for saying Monroe and Frazier played for the Bullets together, it was the Knicks.

[@davidcombs3617]

And that Earl was a Washington Bullet: he wasn't on the team when they moved to DC from Baltimore.

[@neilgodfrey2669]

Great video. I can tell you have done your research on poker. I play poker and it good to see you point out all the errors that most people won’t see.

[@hobbs1701a]

As a poker player, who once upon a time played professionally, I love this movie, however, The boys are correct on many of their sins!

[@blackleague212]

You have permission to ask the demon king how's to plays the pokers kzbin.info/www/bejne/oF6ofXp_lp1ri80 go to him at night

[@yurdp]

Not complaining that you did this movie I just would’ve expected it to be done when you guys first started.

[@DrEdMaN616]

As a pro poker player, gotta say you guys did a good job with this one. Gto to gtfo was pretty dang funny. This is every poker player’s holy grail film, if y’all want something a little more humorous check out The Grand

[@kaiserrino8774]

8:25 Not Bullets, but a New York Knicks reference.

[@Neon_Rain]

Guys do the fast 9 please , im dying to see you doing it) that shit made me laugh so goddam hard, please tear it apart)

[@morpheusadams2586]

Just finished watching " No Time To Die 2021 ". I can't wait for it to be the next cinemasins video.

[@SonataNumber8]

The "I'm all out" skip is the greatest skip in CinemaSins history. I had to pause till I stopped laughing.

[@christopherAclough]

Glad to hear 'orgy of evidence' make a come back, a phrase I adopted from Cinema Sins videos but haven't heard in too long

[@stt5v2002]

Blockers? Ranges? In 1998? Come on man, be fair. Largely Inspired by this movie, I went to a casino to try poker. That was in 2001. Most games were 7 card stud and 5 card draw was still being played. You could get a game of limit Texas holdem. No limit was not even offered. In fact, it wasn’t until at least 2006 that no limit became the standard game.

[@es330td]

This is my biggest complaint about this video. It isn’t fair to judge this movie by today’s poker knowledge; the game has evolved so much. I’ve been playing poker in Vegas since 1993 when you could play 3-6 Limit at the Fremont. The ONLY NL game was at Binion’s. Seven stud was the main game back then and almost every game was limit.

[@jimmyjam1710]

All of this is true. I had a hard time watching this video. 25 years ago no one even heard of a range

[@andro99991]

@@jimmyjam1710 This. And also the line that NLH is "Honda Civic of poker". NLH is popular precisely because it is beautiful, interesting and engaging. Not because it is easy to play well.

[@princeofcupspoc9073]

9:32 There are two monitors CURRENTLY looking at the same camera. They can be changed to look at any dozens of cameras. Not a sin if you don't understand basic security hardware! Or something like that.

[@Cleanframe]

I have to be truthful... When I found ya'lls podcast I tended not to watch these anymore which I have to say I'm sorry. That being said this movie holds a special place in my childhood so watching ya'll do the "ultimate nit pic treatment" of this movie really brings me unironic joy

[@Texicus_Reddicus]

"ya'll"... ding

[@philipmelton7182]

The princess bride quip, i.e. during the Sicilian battle of wits, to corelate with the opening KGB vs MD debacle was so amazing I sinned myself for not being worthy of having heard it... Great job cinema sins!!

[@philipmelton7182]

Additionally, your poker puns throughout are remarkable, hence the remark, lol.

[@toddhollen]

Rounders: There is no way to make a slow moving, cerebral game interesting and understandable without a ton of narration. The Queens Gambit: We are going to do it with fucking chess!

[@rokeYouuer]

With chess you don't need to know anything beyond the fact that if they're taking pieces and look happy, they're probably winning. Poker face is a term for a reason. If you can tell who's winning, then they're probably not winning for much longer.

[@toddhollen]

@S. K. Do you watch movies to learn how games are played? I haven't seen Rounders but I thought it was a movie and not a poker tutorial. My bad

[@leob4403]

@S. K. Sounds like a Mary Sue character yuk, I'm definitely not gonna watch Queens Gambit now

[@Guy_With_A_Laser]

@@leob4403 She's not really a Mary Sue, any more than Tony Stark is a Mary Sue because he's unrealistically talented as an inventor or Sherlock Holmes is a Mary Sue because he's a fantastic detective. The character's absurd strengths in one area are balanced out by deep flaws in other areas of their lives.

[@Guy_With_A_Laser]

​@S. K. Beth's childhood is heavily inspired by real-life chess prodigy Bobby Fischer, who also basically learned chess from an old book and playing games against himself. His first real game against another person was against a master-level player (which he lost, but not decisively). In the world of chess prodigies, her story is embellished, but not completely improbable. She also loses several important games over the course of the series, and they invest a great deal of screentime showing how she is learning and improving her skill. Yes, they don't specifically talk about what variations she plays and why outside of one or two things, but that isn't really the point of the story. Most of the important games are shown briefly up to the critical positions and you can follow along and see what she is playing if you are so inclined.

[@Redflametrow]

Having played a decent amount of poker, playing other players really only goes so far. I played one night of poker where I never had winning cards. I was able to get fairly far from bluffing and folding early, but there is such thing as luck. At the end of the night, you need to be able to beat your opponent when they go all in, otherwise you can't ever take all their chips. So Poker is really a game of waiting to strike than anything. But you still need the luck.

[@JohnnyXanax]

Absol-fuckin-utely. I use different strategies in cash games and tournaments. But luck is essential, it is almost impossible to win a large tournament without it. When Jaime gold won the WSOP, he must have done a deal with the devil as he is a horrible poker player as he is a person. Fuck that dude.

[@Redflametrow]

@@JohnnyXanax I think a lot of people view poker a game of being cool and noticing things. Sure that can help, but looking at your cards and knowing how good a hand that is is huge. These movies where someone just wins when they needs to might as well just explain they cheated because the cards just don't care who needs it more. But yeah, there are some cases where people just have the right cards to keep going. I do think I have a bit above average luck, but I try to be overconfident with losing hands so that people go in for the kill and then I show I finally have a good hand.

[@ThisHandleFeatureIsStupid]

"But you still need the luck" 🤦‍♂️

[@Matheeeew]

@@JohnnyXanax What you need is volume, if you're gonna go the MTT route you need to play an insane amount of tournaments to beat the variance. It is certainly not for everyone, and certainly not for me anymore.

[@jaxsonbateman]

There are definitely some players that can be +EV primarily from playing other players - but in the current poker landscape, I have to imagine the majority of positive value for most players is coming from playing the cards. The ranges, the positioning, the bet sizing, the odds and implied odds, all that good probability stuff. All good players will definitely play some players, some of the time - if you have a LAG player you're going to try and punish their loose play; if you have a whale you're going to try to iso even with weaker holdings than usual. But for the majority of hands, you're playing the maths, not the people. Even when you do play the people (putting in bets and raises to put them in uncomfortable positions), that's usually just an extension of playing the probability - asking them to put in an amount of money that isn't easily a fold or call, based on what you perceive they have and based on what they perceive you have. He's definitely not the most successful or high stakes pro out their, but Brad Owen's vlog channel is great, just for this sort of direct point of view and commentary from him. The vast majority of the time, he's playing the cards, the position, the probability. But occasionally he'll identify some part of an opponent's game - whether they'll bluff with higher frequency, or their a whale or otherwise less skilled player, or whatever - and in those cases, he'll target the player, and explicitly mention that's what he's doing in his commentary.

[@elastoid5459]

The poker knowledge in this movie is archaic to be sure. It came out before people talked about merging ranges or GTO play. What I like about it is that Matt Damon's character is an unreliable narrator. He's supposedly amazing at reading other players, but in reality he's just decent and is totally outclassed by Teddy, as the first scene shows. When Teddy KGB says "that's a position raise, I call," he's justifying his call. If Matt Damon had read any of these poker books he has lying around, he'd know a speech means the nuts. Still, he never even considers the obvious -- that Teddy is very strong before the flop. When you recognize that, it's not hard to suss out he might have aces. You probably don't fold your full house, but you definitely don't maneuver to make the pot as big as possible. That's an important point that this video sort of misses -- there are a lot more options than "fold the full house" and "go all in." He could easily have just NOT overbet the flop. When he got the call, he could have said to himself, "Teddy won't be calling a large overbet with a spade draw, he must have something." And on the final street, Matt Damon said "I got $13k more to raise you, because I don't think you have the spades." He could have saved $13,000 by saying "call." So, yes, he got outplayed. So does this movie NOT know everything it claims to about poker? No, it's just that the narrator character in Matt Damon isn't some poker prodigy. He's a decent player who can play fine against amateurs and tourists but needs to cheat (with Worm) or get absurdly lucky to beat someone like Teddy. All the evidence supports this -- his thinking bluffing Johnny Chan in one hand means he can compete at his level, the way he describes other poker players as piranhas that don't go after each other (thus avoiding playing against any really strong players), and his misplay against Teddy KGB at the beginning, which to him seems perfectly logical on every street. More, is he a tournament player or a cash game specialist? He's only played cash games the whole movie and yet he talks about entering the WSOP like the two aren't very different. This is the story of a mediocre poker player with delusions of grandeur. If they filmed an epilogue, it would be that he lost all his money in Vegas and returned home penniless.

[@Dreamline78]

Mike actually raises it $33k over KGB's bet, not $13k. Meaning, he could've just called the $15k, and after losing the hand, he'd still have $33k left, which is $3k in profit. On the commentary for the DVD/BluRay, Phil Hellmuth says that Mike's big mistake in the hand was raising all-in when he didn't have the nuts AND had every nickel to his name on the table. And his big mistake in the first place was putting his entire bankroll on he line. He even says in his narration that the minimum buy-in is $25k. Why not buy in for $25k then? Is the utility of doubling up an extra $5k worth the risk of losing every dollar to his name?

[@elastoid5459]

@@Dreamline78 I can't believe I made that mistake. 33k. Holy hell. So, yeah, he made plenty of mistakes. There are plenty of online-trained GTO folks who might argue that you're trying to maximize the pot in this instance, but the movie is suggesting that Matt Damon (no matter his character, he's just Matt Damon) is skilled in reading players. If he has any skill whatsoever in doing so, he'll know Teddy is feigning weakness, which means he should watch out. A spade draw doesn't feign weakness and call an overbet.

[@lgnd-lm6ug]

Nicely put, he made a succession of poor judgments yet still overestimates his abilities. Dunning-Kruger?

[@myguykaikai9215]

I liked the movie 20 years ago. Then I learned how to play poker. Now, I hate it.

[@jaxsonbateman]

@@Dreamline78 Nail on the head. The movie gets a fair bit right about poker (for the time, at least), but they absolutely whiff on bankroll management (probably intentionally to create the drama and set the movie in motion). These days it's something that the majority of successful people in endeavours that involve variance - particularly, those involving potentially high variance) - make sure they pay attention to. Bankroll management, the Kelly Criterion and risk of ruin - I know these are three bankroll and stake related concepts that APs (Blackjack advantage players) and successful sports bettors take to heart; I know poker players definitely look into bankroll management, but I'd be surprised if they didn't at least consider the Kelly Criterion or their risk of ruin too.

[@garygarrett7114]

I’m gonna tell you, I love just about every cinema sins video, but being the movie I have seen the most, you crushed it. Love the herb stumpel reference

[@leob4403]

It's crazy how underrated Quiz Show is. That movie is a classic imo

[@crashburn3292]

SOOOO glad CS caught the same sins that always bugged me about this movie. I remember Damon and Norton talking about the movie, saying how hard they tried to get the poker part right, but Rounders also got a lot wrong. Like Damon saying, "Why do the same five guys make it to the WS of Poker every year?" That's entirely inaccurate. Also, Damon talks about how he decided he was just going to "outplay" Chan on that one hand, before cards were even dealt. Anyone who knows poker know that's not how the game works. The cards matter.

[@Paul-vf2wl]

It was somewhat accurate back when the WSOP started in the 70s and 80s when they only got a couple of dozen entrants the contest didn't even break 200 entrants until 1991. It only gained popularity when ESPN came up with the idea of the hole card camera in the early 2000s.

[@mjjpeluso]

Ahhhh Billy's Topless....A real place at one point, now it's a beagle store. I watched this just to see if there was a refrence.

[@gillianorley]

“I had a straight flush . . . It’s, like, unbeatable.”

[@JwLincolnTC]

Like unbeatable is not unbeatable.

[@JamesDavis-ek5sq]

I like how you reluctantly waded into suggestions about this movie, despite your super obvious lack of obsessive knowledge on the subject. ;)

[@paulkurilecz4209]

At the beginning, Mike's girlfriend knew that he played poker in order to get through law school. What upset her was that he lost his entire bankroll.

[@smellsuperb1]

No, what upset her was that he went back to playing, as if she controlled his life unfairly. Oh wait lol 🤔

[@debblouin]

CinemaSins makes one critical sin: he didn’t win his bankroll in the hand against Chan. He just won the hand and won the personal glory of having outplayed a pro.

[@AlexZenigata]

Absolute amazing mvoie.

[@zooey5959]

ROMANTIC🔞-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------🌹 Hot.snapgirls.today/Tatsuhisha?Private-Cam 💕 Special Edition For You Private Live-HDRcam✰[I WANT S€X NOW]💜 Gaze: "Amazed" Lips: "Sensual" Smile: "Sweeter" Body: "Colder" Жизнь, как красивая мелодия, только песни перепутались. #однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков #垃圾

[@samali9342]

Removing just 1 sin for Martin Landau is a sinable offense in and of itself.

[@burtleturtle0012]

His wife always bothered me in this movie. She's only there to add tension to his return to poker, then she's supposed to be concerned for him but it just comes across naggy. It's not the actress, it's the character, she just seems annoying and out of place in the film.

[@robertstauffer2865]

They're not married.

[@turbo8628]

Famke janssen's character too. Clearly cares about mike but lets worm run him into debt. Those two things do not work together

[@dark_neverland]

Also "butt onions" is more hilarious than I anticipated. And nice "grindr" caption reference

[@TheRicardoSanchez]

"... so I clearly can't drink the wine in front of me!" Savage reference. Win.

[@zooey5959]

ROMANTIC🔞-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------🌹 Hot.snapgirls.today/Tatsuhisha?Private-Cam 💕 Special Edition For You Private Live-HDRcam✰[I WANT S€X NOW]💜 Gaze: "Amazed" Lips: "Sensual" Smile: "Sweeter" Body: "Colder" Жизнь, как красивая мелодия, только песни перепутались. #однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков #垃圾

[@jayluck8047]

2:57 Inconceivable!!! That you advertised that joke on the first line!

[@HiyoruMikiyazoya]

It became clear over the course of this video that Jeremy IS the poker playing cousin

[@blackleague212]

Damn daddy. Youse a whole lotta good chocolate

[@SergeantExtreme]

Actually, it's Barrett Share. He's the professional poker player of the group (having _actually_ entered and played the WSOP), and probably gave Jeremy most of the tips on how to sin this movie.

[@Baldbill.]

It would be sick if you did a “everything wrong with apocalypse now” since the redux version released on Netflix

[@shaymicah4194]

CinemaSins was lost on alot of these scenes. 😆 As he was explaining in his comedy way why this scene deserved a sin mark, I realized he is confused about poker and gambling life in general. SORRY CINEMASINS...I'm gonna have to give you a 100 sins[insert noise effect]

[@Nirmiti.]

I think we can all agree that these are much more fulfilling to watch than the actual movies.

[@FuzzyStripetail]

This movie's nut load of poker narration was more over the top than Billy's Topless strip club / inappropriate information about Billy's lack of shirt wearing.

[@KennyMcCormick99]

YESSSSS!!! HE FINALLY DID, "Rounders!!" Only asked through KZbin post & Twitter 67 times!! But hey!

[@NotYourFriendPal]

This movie is so 90’s. Before everyone had internet or cell phones.

[@joshkeeling82]

Ah, the good ol' years

[@joed5150]

I don't know anyone that didn't have internet in the late 90's..

[@NotYourFriendPal]

@@joed5150 congrats. Here you go 🍪

[@joed5150]

@@NotYourFriendPal got some milk to go with that cookie?

[@Itsnotapet]

I love the "Princess Bride" reference 🤣🤣🤣👏👏 that was a great movie. And he snuck the reference to it in very smoothly

[@iainronald4217]

I love John Malkovich, his extreme unrestrained overacting and his inability to do accents. Teddy KGB is great, but if you ever feel like watching a "Mark Wahlberg is just a blue-collar guy" movie, check out Deepwater Horizon. In it, Malkovich tries to do a New Orleans accent but comes out sounding like DJ Khaled the entire film.

[@mullaoslo]

I miss when malkovich would just show up and steal movies like this and con air

[@KristopherStoker]

“Another one…”

[@mattc3581]

There is an interview with Matt Damon, where he says that during rounders John confided in him, he didn't really have a clue how to act he just turns up and does some crazy voice or something and everyone says, wow John that's brilliant.

[@mullaoslo]

@@mattc3581 well if it works it works 😂

[@CardPlayingStrategies]

"Beaten By Jacks" would be an awesome name for a rock band.

[@nachobroryan8824]

There's no right way to play pocket jiggities.

[@jtothet9693]

Hot off the press! Thank you! We all know there's nothing wrong with Rounders, but looking forward to some sins.

[@MrGarycharters]

The narration is insane!

[@Draqson]

Every pokerplayer knows that Teddy had Aces at the end.

[@neilgodfrey2669]

Exaggerated slow roll = the nuts

[@tysoncurtis2646]

that princess bride reference was immaculate

[@jdorffer]

You never touch another players chips, unless the dealer says it's ok.

[@Zzzzzz-ns7lg]

What’s funny is I watched the happy Gilmore video 2 days ago and that’s when he brought up the “time” scene from rounders which made me look up to see if cinemasins did a video on rounder which didn’t exist till literally 2 days later lol

[@KevinGannets]

One disagreement I have with this video is that Mikey could’ve folded the A9 hand. You’re playing against supposedly one of the best poker players and he’s not calling you with nothing. If you really think about it the way he played AA was masterful he trapped the opponent and got a full double up/all in. It’s definitely not common and goes against the odds but once in a very rare while you can fold A9 there if the action happened like the way it did in this movie

[@RFKFREAK]

If I'm playing $1/$2 live, sure, bc almost no one raises on the river without the nuts, but in a game like this, with so much high level thinking and metaplaying, i don't think it's ever right to fold.

[@KevinGannets]

@@RFKFREAK Pretty sure mikey raised the river teddy just placed a bet on the river. Placing a bet on the river insures that the pot gets some money into it kind of pointless the check there with basically the nuts (99 still the nuts of course) It would be insane to check the river as teddy cause if mikey checks back he gets no more money in the pot which proved my point even more that he has AA here

[@KevinGannets]

@Fugp Basis You’re talking about the wrong hand here. Mike went all in and then teddy says “You’re right I don’t have the spades” and makes the call.