Therapist Reacts to THE LITTLE MERMAID

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

Click here www.helixsleep.com/cinematherapy for up to $200 off your Helix Sleep mattress plus two free pillows! I've been sleeping like a Disney princess for weeks! #helixsleep

[@Ashleymfranklin1990]

Is plastic surgery body dismorfofobia

[@WhitneyDahlin]

@@Ashleymfranklin1990 I don't think so. I think it can be a sign of dysmorphia but I also think we all have insecurities and sometimes plastic surgery can help boot confidence and self love. For example if you hate your nose you can get nose job to fix that and feel better and more attractive. But for someone with body dysmorphia the plastic surgery doesn't fix their insecurity because the problem isn't with their body. It's with their mind. Look at Ferrara Abrams from teen Mom. SHE has body dysmorphia. Look how much plastic surgery she's gotten. And she's just going to keep getting more and more plastic surgery until she gets mental health help. Plastic surgery can for sure become an addiction and a sign of body dysmorphia. But for most of the time and for most people I don't believe it is. I think everyone has one or two things they would love to get fixed with plastic surgery if they could afford it. But most people wouldn't have 60 plastic surgeries.

[@WhitneyDahlin]

4:55 interesting! I didn't realize people were hoarding to hold on to the past. I've never heard that before, it definitely makes sense. I would love for you to elaborate on that some time. But that makes me very sad for them. But I have the opposite problem. My past was so terrible I don't want to think about it at all. I want no reminders. I cut out every single person in my life who I knew back then and who is to blame for what happened. I have no possessions from that time period, no clothing, I won't listen to songs from those years. I wonder. Is it better to have a past so wonderful you want to go back to it, or a past so terrible you're haunted by it for the rest of your life?

[@EyeLean5280]

Love at first sight... This is part of the way fairy tales work. They have their own logic that comes out of the medieval world, a world very, very different from ours, a world that believed in magic. (Though we can point out to our kids that "love at first sight" is a magical idea and that in real life, we recognize a difference between infatuation and love.) Giving up the voice... Remember, in the original Hans Christian Andersen story, she does NOT get her heart's desire by giving up her voice and not only that, she loses her life. I think that is actually an important message that can be taken from the real story. Disney, of course, is always gonna Disney - though I admit the impalement murder at the end really startled me when I first saw the film. Struck me as * rather * anti-Disney, but a lot more like the gruesomeness found in Grimm's Fairy Tales.

[@amandasnider2644]

Is it weird that I have NEVER identified with teen characters who have a whole rebellious streak because "they're not kids anymore "? Like as a kid I could recognize that the parents usually were in the wrong or reacted badly but I rarely ever agreed with the main characters because I would look at them like..." Uh, No....you're definitely still a kid." At 27 now that hasn't changed and I often say, the older I get, the younger people are to me. Both the people who are younger and people who are older than me.

[@antiformsora]

My interpretation: Eric was a justification for Ariel for wanting to be with the humans, but she always wanted to (Part of Your World was before she ever laid eyes on him). She latched on to him for that reason, but it wasn't her fixation on him that lead her to making that deal. It was her father's actions that pushed her away and toward Ursula. From then, she worked to keep her legs. Kissing the prince was just the mechanism by which she'd keep her legs.

[@princessangel821]

- Me with a megaphone- THANK YOU!!

[@cutecats1657]

I think so too

[@Gadsooks]

I agree and note that it's the Villain who makes it all about getting a man in a purely physical way. Ursula tries to make it much more shallow by taking away Ariel's voice, but because of her sincere eagerness to learn and her grit, Ariel's personality shines through regardless.

[@BeckyMa9482]

This, exactly. Ariel is NOT totally passive.

[@Chubbasaurus]

Exactly this!!! Her father absolutely raged out and destroyed all of her prized possessions she spent y e a r s collecting. That's straight up abuse. She was curious about the human world before, but after seeing that destructive rage? She wanted to escape.

[@TheLadyFool]

You could probably do a whole thesis on Ariel's voice - when it's celebrated and when she's silenced. Something to consider might be how Ariel's singing voice is prized by everyone, but not what she says or does or wants - her value is in her voice, but only in specific, controlled circumstances. If Ariel's been measured by two things her entire life - her voice and her fins before Ursula gives her an opportunity to not only pursue her crush, but also to strip away the two external factors holding up her identity and to explore who she is without them.

[@jameswest6232]

Oh, interesting read. I'd only push back in that taking her singing away, but leaving her able to talk would avoid the criticism of "Eric never bothers to figure out a way to communicate beyond playing 20 questions" - I do like the idea of stripping away the only two things that Ariel thinks she's measured by is interesting and fits with the logic of an impulsive teenager.

[@RWAsur]

Damn, this is the most interesting comment in here. Absolutely strong metaphors

[@wettailtimberwolf1996]

I like the musicals portrayal of eric because it solves that. He teaches her that dance is an expression and she uses it in the competition to tell him she wants to be with him. He honestly almost goes with her until ursula crashes the competition.

[@shadowrose914]

I truly appreciate this comment. Thank you for the awesome perspective

[@burpingcricket]

I really like this read. Thank you!

[@corpupine3505]

One thing I find really interesting about a lot of these arguments is this: everyone seems to assume that if Ariel got the prince to kiss her, she would get her voice back. But if you listen to the song, that''s *explicitly not the deal.* Ursula only says she'll get to *keep the legs* if the prince kisses her. The voice is the *payment.* The only reason Ariel gets her voice back at all is because Ursula's necklace breaks--something that wasn't part of the plan. This means that in Poor Unfortunate Souls, Ariel is okay with giving up her voice *forever* for the chance to live on land. I don't have any additional things to add, but some people have been using this logic in their arguments and I just wanted to point out that this is a flawed read.

[@mikailagray]

Her voice is collateral for a deal that Ursula is expecting to fail so she would be able to keep her voice and her soul if she fails to get the kiss in enough time. That’s why Ursula goes through the lengths the sabotage her because if Ariel accomplished the goal Ursula would get nothing. It was a bet not a straight forward transaction as I saw it.

[@thedappermagician6905]

Got a read the fine print on your Deals of Sorcery. Esp with Sea-Hags. They'll getcha. Oh they'll getcha.

[@rhaenyralikesyoutube6289]

Well...In the real Andersen story, the mermaid, (not sure if she had a name), the seawitch literally cuts out her tongue with a knife; so even if the mermaid got the Prince, she would be mute forever. I kind of wish that Ariel didn't get the Prince in Disney's version to give more of a homage to the original story.

[@ToriGachaGirl]

@@rhaenyralikesyoutube6289 I believe it was Littlest Mermaid but yeah she would've remained mute if she succeeded cause like you mentioned her toung be gone, and I would've also liked if she didn't get the prince but eh to late now unfortunately

[@cairrean2412]

@@rhaenyralikesyoutube6289 eh, Disney is all about Happily Ever After even if it goes against what already exists. Just look at Hercules.

[@luanavasconcelos1497]

I think people dismiss the fact that she wanted to leave the ocean long before she met Eric. He wasn’t even the catalyst for her going to Ursula, in my reading. It was because Triton destroyed her collection. This betrayal was the main motivator for her to leave. And Ursula was the one who made Eric the focus. I think Ariel would’ve been more focused on experimenting life as a human than chasing Eric otherwise.

[@SilvX610]

I agree. I believe that if Triton didn't make a scene out of it, this phase of her crushing over Eric would have passed, just like most phases teenagers have.

[@nicolelussier1129]

Couldn't have said it better myself. I've always wondered how different Ariel would be if her mother was still alive.

[@kecym.4808]

Ursula the greatest villain not only tricked Ariel but the audience as well

[@victoriarissland1569]

I am disappointed they never showed how he destroyed everything that mattered to her. My mother used to do this and the pain is still so deep that I remember it as it was yesterday. Shortly after that I cut al connections to her. I am a mother now and could never do such a horrible thing to my child 😢

[@PsycHoOone]

Feel hugged if you want

[@jessiec668]

A line from Ariel's song that I think is important: "Betcha on land they understand. Bet they don't reprimand their daughters. Bright young women, sick of swimming, ready to stand..." I think Ariel isn't obsessed with the human world just because it's exotic and taboo. She sees the human world as a place with more freedom than her life under her father's rule.

[@AnotherJennifer-a183]

I was thinking the same thing, I don't know how many times I 've heard that song and just now noticed that lyric

[@emmabunch-benson4795]

Period

[@VioletEmerald]

Such an important detail!

[@RainAngel111]

Little did she know. It's hard to place a date for when the movie takes place, but it certainly seems like the age when women were supposed to be demure. Victorian era maybe. They'd never walk out alone like Ariel does all the time. Never mind talking back to your Dad. It was still legal to beat your wife. Of course Disney wasn't going to portray any of that, but I think we all knew what it was like having a father like Triton.

[@msk-qp6fn]

Funny thing is the human world was probably just as oppressive and disparaging towards women.

[@brandiarmstrong2902]

She's 16, so on the one hand, she's looking for some autonomy. She knows what a fish hook looks like, she knows what a net is, and she knows how to avoid them. On the other hand, she's 16 and boy-crazy over Eric. More appropriately, over what he represents. This tunnel vision can cause her to overlook viable options, instead choosing something more dangerous that's not a sure thing, for the chance at getting what she believes will satisfy her. This is where it would pay to talk to her father, and that is where her relationship with him is a major obstacle. They could really use a bit of help from an experienced mediator with a neutral stance, like a family therapist. This is not Sebastian's strong suit.

[@breanawilhelm3420]

Also, teenagers are not known for having the best judgement. So the more dangerous situations always seem more appealing.

[@shelbyallen246]

Yeah, because our frontal lobes are the size of shriveled raisins until approx. 25yo...

[@Zeldafan1ify]

@@shelbyallen246 does it still take awhile to grow in some 25 y.o's? Because I'm 5 months away from turning 27 and my life is still a mess lol

[@janedoex1398]

@@Zeldafan1ify The actions and experiences in your life can literally shave your neurological pathways. As an extreme example: someone who was ab*** in any way in their childhood - the brain will try literally everything to find ways to protect itself and it's hoast ( the person via ..... let's say dissociation, anxiety , PTSD, OCD , not remembering some years of your life at all etc.) So the person can go on with their life , BUT somehow the trauma will make itself known , even if it's 30 years later. It's like supressed , but NOT forgotten! Even if you can't acess these memories atm... Your brain knows it, but cuts you off - " thinking" it's the best for you. And that's often times it makes it worse, because you don't know what suddenly " "*triggers* you" a aka makes you want to run or cry or fight or freeze completely- and have NO ( in some cases) or just have a very vague idea of why you suddenly feel a certain way....in a negative way, frightened, ready to punch, freak out, freeze, loose memories for a certain amount of time etc.... Even less severe things like ( Please don't come after me I just tried to give a non overall triggering example, I KNOW HOW BULLIES WORK, I had one narcissistic one I loved like a sister in my home from 3 to 12....) being bullied in 1 st grade, can shape the way you communicate or approach people and that way you unconciously influence how people react to you and you wonder : " WTH did I do wrong? WHY ARE THEY SO MEAN? - Because you alteady learned to behave like an easy target/ victim. People who have been r***** are likely to be r**** again after the first time. It's in studies, it's ( not only but also ) in their subconcious body language ....for predators to breathe in ! Because your behaviour was shaped that way based on- often very early - even way too early to remember- experience.

[@adrianghandtchi1562]

Eric does represent and add to the growing desire she had to one day be part of the worlds that she yearned to be in. The destruction of the grotto what is the destruction of the only thing that kept her down in the sea, try Tinley effectively catapulted her into the direction he did not want her to go in.

[@memyselfandi7782]

Ursula is such a business woman that she convinced the AUDIENCE that Ariel left the sea for a man when really her Princess song was about nearly everything but a man. It was about her infactuation with the land specifically and how much she wanted to be a part of it. She just preyed on the young FIRST crush she had to seal the deal to her voice. Otherwise, Ariel wouldn't have signed out of anger towards her father for smashing the statue and what he had done to her collection.

[@Asharra12]

Yes! Thank you! It was never really about Eric, he was just a side quest. Legs were the goal. I also find the play very interesting with an emphasis om the importance of a woman's voice. Most of the disney plays add extra to the movie and when they remake them, they often just take material from the play (like extra songs). The movie doesn't actually have to be changed much to be relevant, just developing that theme they already got going in the play

[@memyselfandi7782]

@@Asharra12 yeah. Even when Ursula said and you'll have your man, even Ariel wasn't convinced until she preyed on her feelings

[@papabearlives9995]

Ursala was the one who made it about Eric but now I'm starting to wonder was the contract specifically about him could she have simply had another man kiss her . why do I have so many questions about the little mermaid.

[@Account-py9su]

she gaslit, she gatekept, and she IS a girlboss.

[@MARYWTHER]

Heh, the story itself made it about Eric. Ariel made it about Eric. She never went to Ursula before she fell "in love" with Eric, and her only interractions with the human world once she becomes human are Eric and around Eric. As said, she doesn't fight to keep her legs once she finds out that Eric will marry another woman, she fights for Eric once she finds out it's Ursula controlling him. The narrative DID make it about Eric. Even if we have to count the second movie. Does Ariel have friends on earth? Nop. Does Ariel even seem to leave the castle? Nopity nop. It's not about wanting to see the world anymore, it's all about the dude she saw, the storyline made it to be. The ending of the movie isn't Ariel going to see the world, it's Ariel getting married. It's all about the Prince.

[@katerinaps99]

Let’s also keep in mind that Triton’s parenting and the not letting his daughters go to the surface thing is also a result of his possible PTSD because of how tragically his wife died (shown in the little mermaid prequel)

[@emilybixler3166]

Ehhh yes, but that doesn't excuse actual abuse. You kinda have to work your own stuff out, not use your kids as punching bags. Especially when it's directly analogous to real life racism and discrimination, when a parent can say "a member of X group hurt me, therefore I won't let my child interact with that group." My dad had anger issues my whole childhood and took it out on me and my sister, because my mom told him she'd divorce him if he yelled at her. They use the excuse of him having had a rough childhood, but it is your job to work on your baggage before you have kids, not pass it on to them.

[@katerinaps99]

@@emilybixler3166 yes I 100% agree on this! Just mentioned it as the source/context :)

[@mcwyman7928]

I don't think you can claim that since that was a prequel that came out like 20 years after the original. They surely didn't have that plot point in mind when they initially wrote this movie, and if they did, it isn't in the text.

[@Furienna]

@@emilybixler3166 To be fair to Triton though, it is clear that he feels remorse after he has destroyed Ariel's collection. Yes, he was truly wrong to do that, but in the end, he thought he had to do it to protect Ariel, until he could see that it only made things worse.

[@chancewill6910]

I mean I was a child when I watched little mermaid and I thought he was the worst. I didn't see the prequel until later so I guess I thought she magically spawned because I had no idea there was a mom. He was extremely mean to her all the time and I'm not sure the mother's death can be the reason because he was just like "Ariel, Ariel, Ariel" never "Ariel I'm just trying to keep you safe" and hated everything she loved for no apparent reason

[@dianaaguilar3813]

As a former kid raised into an extremely protected enviroment, this movie is a fair reflection of my relationship with my dad until well into my 20's. You can't ground, yell, manipulate or intimidate a person into thinking how you think. Similar to Ariel, I grew up feeling invalidated to take my own decisions and feeling guilty for yearning independence, which kept me from enjoying a great deal of my teenage years. I spent the most turbulent years of my life unable to share any of my growing experiences with the very same people who love me for fear of getting even more controlled or admitting mistakes that would prove my incompetence. 0/10 would not recommend to project your fears onto your kids.

[@zuzkapavlovicova2779]

I was also growing up in very protective environment and only now am telling my parents about my life and experiences, because I moved for college. I am not used to talk about my life in general, so no one really gets me, besides my sister. I hope I will not raise my future children to be as quiet as I am.

[@hallaloth3112]

Uhg, this hits home just a bit. I love my parents, I share their beliefs. My parents were very much 'what I say goes' and despite that I would still say they were very loving and caring. However because of that very hard. . .I never found them approachable. Making a mistake meant (admittedly usually fair) punishment. There wasn't much celebration of doing something well. My parents were also incredibly sheltering. . .and honestly a bit neglectful. I never got 'the talk' with my parents. Admittedly I was a very shy, quiet kid in school and mostly stayed absorbed in books and would have said quite plainly if ever asked (no one ever did) that I didn't really have any friends at all. I wasn't outright attracted to anyone until my last year of highschool. . .and that person was already seeing someone else. . .so I guess because I never was the typical girl becoming boy obsessed my parents never felt the need to sit down and lay out any sort of boundaries. Which led me to hiding my first relationship from them for years (probably not well. . .but again. . .they never asked or really questioned it) and we've still never really talked about things even though my wedding (with that same person) is this fall. I love my parents, I know they love me. . . but I still feel like there are aspects they definitely dropped the ball when it came to parenting.

[@kinaocasio527]

Ayyy 22 and still living in said environment, wasn't till I was like 17-19 that I realized my living situation *wasnt* "normal" or healthy. Working on saving up money and trying to gain more independence little by little till I hopefully move out

[@ccclarissa]

@@kinaocasio527 Same. I know that my parents love me, but I was so over protected and forbiden to do anything that I have to move out just to have a life.

[@SunaStarr]

Damn felt this, as a teenager rn. My parents projected their fears onto me from a young age. Far too young to understand as a toddler. Growing up I literally never interacted with anyone and still don’t. I never told my feelings till eventually my late teenager years to my past friends. Though moving on, my life right now is chaos and not stable in short explanation

[@eternyti]

I'm not sure if the Internet Dads watched the sequels or not, but in the 3rd one, it gives a lot of extra weight to Triton's tough parenting: he's a single parent who has had to raise 7 little mermaids on his own because he saw his own wife killed by humans. Ariel is the youngest and also the only one who looks IDENTICAL to her deceased mother (and also had a love of humans herself), so on top of being a constant reminder of the love he lost and how he lost her, she's also most likely her father's favorite, and being the youngest sibling, likely going to be babied and overprotected. Triton's actions, while still not excusable, are at least much easier to sympathize with and understand knowing this.

[@kdcbattlecreek]

did not know there were sequels! will have to check with my daughter.

[@DeanneM1726]

The movie about the mother was a prequel to the existing movie. Would prequels be a way to fix mistakes in the already existing movie?

[@efulmer8675]

I would argue that sequels don't fix problems in the originals unless they were actually breadcrumbs to something. If book/movie 1 says X and then the sequel says Y in place of X, you've only retconned the continuity in the sequel, not fixed the problem in the original. Similarly for a prequel, book/movie 1 still says X and if the prequel says Z about X, then maybe X is more understandable (Triton has PTSD that is triggered by seeing the humans rather than just being a difficult parent) but X is still the case - the problem isn't fixed.

[@fnaffangirl123]

As the baby of my family I can confirm that parents babying us is true and it's stiffling

[@sarahgrandy7074]

Along with the prequel of Little mermaid and the father being traumatized by his wife's death. It's also interesting in Little mermaid two. That Ariel's daughter Melody wants to live in the ocean because she finds her mother stifling to her. That she wants to explore the ocean it feels like a fish out of water.

[@RPGLover87]

something interesting in Poor Unfortunate Souls is Ariel's many emotions as she signs the contract, cycling through fear and anxiety but finally settling on something very telling - her expression as she grabs the quill is nothing more than fury. She is signing her voice away not just to get to Land, but also as a resounding FUCK YOU to her father. The next expression is back to fear of what she's just done, showing that she's fully aware that she's made a bad decision, but it wasn't made out of stupidity, it was made out of spite. Triton and Ariels negative emotions had fallen into a feedback loop so severe that Ariel ended it explosively, ending her relationship with her father metaphorically and entering one with Ursula, his mortal enemy, purely to get back at him.

[@Mia_M]

I think it's a perfect example of why parents should be careful about what they do and say to their children because those things stick. Triton being heavy handed with Ariel isolated his daughter and then on top of that, he destroyed something that meant a lot to her. He crushed her dreams and instead of sitting down to talk with her, he let his anger take the driver seat, which in turn devastated her, but also fueled her anger at her father. You're right. Her quick signing of the contract was to spite him because Ursula was offering something he never would, and she saw a way out and to prove him wrong.

[@memyselfandi7782]

EXACTLY

[@tomsawyerpiper9412]

All of this is completely true. That fact notwithstanding, what she does is still extremely stupid.

[@noemiepace9020]

Yes. This is it.

[@vivijensenforchhammer4353]

My thoughts when they at the end of the video talk about therapy between Triton and Ariel, and how he doesn't listen is taking away her voice, goes so well with this comment. Ariel might be thinking, "I can either give up my voice to have a shot at getting the life I want, or remain here and have no voice anyway."

[@angelinacamacho8575]

I like how Eric had no idea what was going on but was still willing to help arial out. As if he was saying "I don't understand but at the same time I don't need to,"

[@edwintovar1505]

I love you and I dont care how you look I just love you

[@akiumzeno]

@@edwintovar1505 Also Eric: *Pulls away from Ariel when she tries to kiss him and pines over another woman (who he doesn't know is actually Ariel)*

[@SilverLetomi]

OK, so I had this thought as you guys were going through the end of the film. I think this may, in a very subversive way, be kind of inspiring. Think about Ariel's relationship with her friends and family under the sea-they all hyper fixate on her singing ability and her voice. "The most wonderous voice, the most beautiful voice"-- they never bring up any of her other attributes because they don't care. Then her voice is taken away when she gets up to the surface and she's trying to woo Prince Eric without the one thing that she has been told her whole life that she's good for. And Eric, to his credit, takes her seriously and appreciates her, goes out into town with her, watches for her reactions to make sure she's having a good time, and is very possibly falling in love with her and it's *not because of her voice.* But then, when she finds out that he is marrying Ursula in disguise, and I think if I remember correctly she does notice that it's her voice by this point, she comes to the conclusion that she wasn't good enough after all. That she isn't enough without her voice. But the ultimate point is that she is! That Eric was falling in love with her for who she is even without this magical perfect voice that everyone has always told her she has. She was so good that Ursula had to steal that voice and craft it into a spell to keep Eric away from her. By taking away her voice, it gave Eric a chance to not fawn over her voice (the way he was initially), and also gave Ariel a chance to see that she really is more than just what her family praised her for. Just a thought!

[@DerpDevilDD]

That's not actually true. No one is fixated - hyper or otherwise - on Ariel's voice or singing ability. Ariel's voice being beautiful is only mentioned once between Sebastian and Triton and only because his daughters (who are all accomplished singers) are literally about to have a concert (and it's mentioned in the song, since the song is about Ariel's musical debut - as in the FIRST time she's singing to an audience ever). Eric mentions the voice of the girl who saved him is beautiful once and only fixates on it because he doesn't remember what she looks like - the only thing he remembers is her voice. Those are the only time the beauty of her voice is brought up and it's never called wondrous by anyone. Her identity and value are never tied to her voice. Maybe you're pulling stuff from the cartoon series in here, but none of that happens in the movie.

[@songe85]

Mermaids kinda pull mythically from Sirens. The voice is what sirens used to lure sailors (also prophecies but still) and for Ariel to not have that seductive power lends to Eric actually caring about *her* but Vanessa very much does use the seductive power to lure him away.

[@jteosms]

Love this. That’s what I see too. AND, when people say giving up your voice is just too far… if she was upset that her voice was the only thing people paid attention to it t would have been easier for her to give it up to prove there is more to her reality… but it is a bad story line and that possibility isn’t shown so I am not saying Ariel ever showed dissatisfaction with people praising her voice.

[@saribeepo.o5111]

@@jteosms yeah, you guys might want to check what's in the water you're drinking. Like others previously pointed out, at NO point is her voice really made a big deal about. She's singing to an audience, that's the only time anyone other than Eric cares. Eric only cares because it's the only thing he remembers because he was half drowned and barely conscious for the few seconds he saw her. Her voice is the only way for him to find her. .. Her friends aren't upset because she was giving up her voice specifically, but because she was making a deal with the Sea Witch. Did you not see all the transformed Merfolk when she was swimming into her lair? Were you guys paying attention to how the contract was rigged because losing her voice made it hard for her to fill the terms, then she was actively thwarted, and finally used that voice as part of her magic to ensnare Eric to make sure she didn't fulfill the contract. It has nothing to do with because her voice is especially pretty. Ursula could have asked for anything, and they would have been alarmed that she was considering it.

[@justalittleturtle5600]

I actually always thought it was so he wouldn’t recognize her. You know, she saves him and he remembers her voice? Well then he’s not falling love with her, he’s confusing love and gratitude towards his hero, ultimately fracturing what love they may have had. By removing her voice as a factor, he gets to fall in love with her, and not some image he may have of her as a hero. But I really like your view of it too! A great explanation.

[@GinervaWeasleyPotter]

Here’s why I think the “your pretty face” argument is wrong. I think the film actively proves Ursula wrong, and rightly so as she is the villain and it’s incredibly wrong. To start of though, I will acknowledge both Eric and Ariel are probably some of the most beautifully designed people in the Disney pantheon. They’re both very attractive so it’s easy to argue it was just about the beauty. However, I believe it is more than that. When Ariel first sees Eric, we see him sea-faring, playing with his dog, playing the flute, and talking about his romantic tendencies - already she and the audience know a lot about him. Later on we see him try to save his servant rather than his own life, further proving he is a decent guy, and Ariel has every right to fall head over heels for this guy. When Eric first sees Ariel, it’s after she literally saved his life. She pulled him out of flaming ship wreckage in a storming sea and back to land. But that’s not all he gets fixated on. He loves the sound of her voice and how she sings to him, so much so that after he meets Ariel again and he finds out she can’t speak he loses all interest in her. He cares about the talented singer who saved his life and ran away before he could talk to her. Despite his disinterest, he agrees to take Ariel in, look after her, clothe and feed her, and even take her on tours around the city and the lagoons. They go riding in carriages, shopping at markets, dancing in the square, and he takes her to his favourite spot. They spend real time with one another and get to know one another. They find each other funny and charming and fun to be around. Eric realises he likes Ariel so much, he throws alway his flute into the ocean, symbolically giving up on the singing mystery girl so he can pursue his feelings for Ariel. Unfortunately this is where Ursula shows up and enchants him - something she only has to do because they see they’re genuinely falling for each other. Remember, Ursula specified it had to be a kiss of “true love”. She probably thought that as lovesick teenagers, it wouldn’t be true, especially as they couldn’t communicate properly, but they find a way to do so anyway and actually get to know one another. Ursula only has to step in because they’re getting close to really being in love. However, they never actually do the kiss to see if their love is true as Ariel runs out of time, and I’d argue it wouldn’t break the curse as they’re not quite there yet, but they’re well on their way. Are they both attractive? Yes. Is this the thing that motivates them to fall in love? Absolutely not.

[@coco_1002]

I absolutely agree with you! At first, it might seem like "love at first sight" but if you take a closer look you´ll see that there is way more going on. She didn´t just fall for his looks (even though he´s undeniably handsome) but for his caring personality and selfless acts. Moreover, she was even more attracted by the fact that he was different (a human with two legs instead of a tail, in other words, "something" that she isn´t really familiar with but was still seeking for her whole life). Some might call this just curiosity and not love and to be honest I´d agree with that. I believe love is something that develops with time. It´s true that the first impression has quite a huge impact on the way you´re thinking about a person but that´s not all...by spending time together and gradually getting to know each other, you might see the person in a way that is completely different from your first impression. On the other hand, how do you expect them to fall in love if there wasn´t any "curiosity" or attraction in the first place? I mean, if you´re not interested in someone, then you obviously can´t fall in love with him/her. People mistakenly consider, what happened between both protagonists in the movie, as "love at first sight", whereas in reality, it´s rather "attraction" that leads to love and that´s exactly why their bond was so strong. If it was just attraction because of their looks, then their bond wouldn´t have been as strong as it was portrayed in the end.

[@harlequinade2709]

I had a Disney class where we watched this film. I couldn't believe the number of people who thought that Ariel was a horrible character who only gave up her voice for a guy she just met. I also noted him throwing away the flute that symbolically represented the unattainable mystery girl and instead CHOOSING Ariel. It was a pretty consistent theme throughout all lectures that (I believe) no one had ever read a fairy tale before. Or at least didn't understand the rules governing them. Magic, by it's amorphous and nebulous nature in fairy tales, MUST be infallible. Ursula can't change the rules of the True Love's Kiss goal, or take back her deal. Same kinda problem comes up in Beauty and the Beast. The relationship simply cannot be Stockholm Syndrome because the magic MUST be infallible and therefore, because it recognizes the Beast and Belle as truly in love, then it MUST be true. My point is, a lot of the complaints about fairy tales simply come from people not understanding that they work on different, more simplistic rules. It's not the same as a science fiction movie, where everything has to follow logic and have an explanation. Sometimes you just have to take the sincerity of the characters/story by faith. It's just going to ruin the experience for you if you nit pick it.

[@Nemamka]

You said everything I wanted to. Thank you so much. This movie has nothing to do with her being voiceless and just pretty. They don't communicate? Did we watch the same movie? They do everything together physically that is not yet sexual - eating, traveling, dancing, laughing and trusting each other in the process... (Eric literally gives her the rails and then lays back in his seat after he knows they are okay, COME ON.) Okay, no serious life plans yet, but what the hell. Not every relationship has to start like that, laying out all the checkpoints before we even start. Not every relationship has to start out like 'we need to be SO compatible and SO on the same page about communication and future plans that we either last forever from here, or it's goodbye'. Not every relationship has to start TO BE the be all end all! And I think THAT is equally important to teach to kids, besides toxic relationships and communication mistakes, that please, you can just DATE people. You can have a spark that lasts 6 months and that's okay!!! You don't have to be super committed and super irrevocably-in-love with every person you meet and are attracted to! It's equally as toxic to teach children that they should never ever act on any flirtatious adventure because it's not true love. Fuck that. True love can last 4 months, or hell, one night, if the two (or more) people in it care about each other. I think we should talk about THAT, not always just perfect marriages and already long as heck relationships. And there's absolutely zero truth in Eric being one-dimensional. WHERE is a character one-dimensional who we literally get to know 5 core things about in 5 minutes?! Yeah they are both young, and he says he imagines love striking like lightning, oh my god, so what, we all talk like that. And then if you notice, it didn't happen like that to him (he fell slowly for Ariel) but he was totally fine with that! He threw away the flute, he admitted it to himself that he likes Ariel that much to go up to her and talk about a future together. And then they say they didn't communicate.... Hell yes they did, they were just interrupted :') And for Alan to miss that reference and beautiful metaphorical moviemaking... I mean, ugh, they both missed the epicly layered storytelling in there - Ariel is 'obsessed' with another culture, she goes 'too' close to it - it is bad luck to have a woman on board of a sailing ship - Ariel was there, they just didn't know - the storm arrived - the storm that was actually first in Ariel's mind and soul - the storm that was caused by humans in her soul - those humans who have also conquered the sea - and Ariel saved them/him from that very sea, so that HER own turmoil, her family, her sea, her storm does not disrupt the lives of that other culture - it's all connected in a beautiful circle, how did we not even get an appreciative nod from Alan, please. Also... I understand that there is a distinction between dismorphia and transgenderism, and that's fine, however, I do think it was taken out of context and it was a little tone deaf, I don't know when exactly that master's was written but definitely could have done more research. Ariel's I want song was written by a gay man imagining a world where he _passes_ for 'normal'. That's what Ariel's story was inspired by and losing her voice and her family are representations of how much you would have to sacrifice to _pass_ as normal, to not be seen as 'other', as a 'freak' - and you can interpret that for either just gay people or trans ones. Losing your voice is a MASSIVE part of that subtext, as LGBT+ people - AND women AND non-white people - are most often told like okay, be yourself, but keep a low profile, yeah? Don't be loud, don't demand any rights, use your voice only for exactly what we want you to use it for. Did Ariel ever say she likes to perform? No! For god's sakes, she forgets the concert because it's so little of a priority on her mind. She likes to sing but on her own accord. Half on that note: Ursula and queer coding in disney has a long history too, and it is not the way they think it is - queercoding in media is so prevalent because for a long time that was the ONLY way queer people could be represented. About what this means, I would recommend other youtuber's videos, they are a lot more eloquent than me, but honestly, it's not with the negative intention that many would think. Triton though is basically racist, like, his lines all but spoon feed it to you, no need to explain, but how was that wishi-washed over in this commentary, I'm not sure and I'm not a fan. Sorry for the rant, I could talk about this for hours :'DDD I think The Little Mermaid is THE tightest told story next to Mulan, and I WILL defend it til the day I die.

[@Nemamka]

@@harlequinade2709 !!! omg thank you for saying that, I need to remember that for future arguments :DD magic is infallible in fairy tales, I needed to hear this for my own sake too because toooooo many superhero movies have drilled into me the idea that in their fictional science (magic) there is actual logic...

[@tygerchickchibi]

Wow this thread was so refreshing to read.

[@yzzy7267]

I love how Hans Christan Andersen (according to some historians) wrote the little mermaid as inspiration for his own failed love life. He wrote many love letters to his friend named Collin, but only sent a few. Collin rejected him and was pressured to marry by family. Around the event of the wedding, Hans escaped to the Island of Fyn to write the little mermaid that mirrored his experience with Collin and would later send the story to his friend. I always found the original story so painful, and when I read about its inspiration, it just made my heart ache a lot more

[@hosurosh4846]

Yea, and in the original she dies becomingone withthe sea. It is a tragic tale for a tragic time. (Yet I'm not clear if they were cousin?)

[@KalinTheZola]

I too watched Lindsay Ellis lol

[@mirandamay668]

Agree! Also the live action needs to be openly gay to honor the history behind the story/Hans Christian Andersen

[@TimeFrost]

Yeaa, AbitFrank talked about it with her cool animation. Made me emotional.

[@JaneAxon123]

Hmm so being a mermaid is an allegory for being gay?

[@susilopez3305]

My own dad was always similar to Triton. He, to this date, was always overprotective, and I'm 28. He devoted his life to keep us safe and unharm that he never gave us the space to explore and choose who we wanted to be, which unfortunately affected us while growing up. When Triton destroyed Ariel's collection, I cried, because my dad did something similar. I love drawing to this date. And one day when we were arguing, he took my sketches and tore them apart in front of me. Instead of getting angry, I felt heartbroken. The only reason I was able to forgive him, is because my sister told me he felt so much regret for what he did to me, he even search in the trash trying to find them. I never doubted that my dad loved me. But if love is about growing closer, it's also about letting go.

[@muurrarium9460]

I am 53, my mother of 80-ish, still is like that. Anything I like or anything I do that does not resonate with her, will not get her 'mark of approval'. And she will gleefully rub that in if I happen to fail at anything. I am still always half-sneaking behind her back just to have some joy in life.

[@Ash__1991]

Your dad destroying your art, isn't the same as triton destroying Ariel's possessions. he did his to try and wake her up out of her obsessions' of humans. he seem them as a danger, due to how his wife died. your dad destroyed your things to HURT you, because he could. it had nothing to do with protecting you. he wanted to hurt you. Unless he actually apologizes for it, i wouldn't have forgiven him.

[@muurrarium9460]

Watch the dr. Ramani vids about narcistic parents. You will be shocked! (We share the same age, as well as mothers who behave like crap, judging by what you wrote here). I sooo get the "sneaking around, triyng to have some fun" (and I always get "found out" because I have been drilled to answer all questions).

[@Janary08]

Dropping an unwelcome opinion: I wouldn't be as forgiving as you are in that situation unless the dad made it up to me by apologizing and buying a new sketchbook lol

[@Puppy_Puppington]

@@Janary08 what the heck you guys are dumb. You guys don’t know anything about her situation and the father … and she’s 28 now by then she would forgive a stupid sketchbook when she was a little kid .. that’s such a privilege brat close minded way to look at things if you don’t forgive your father for that.. your father, your parents give you everything else you need to survive. They work hard for you and you’re just gonna pretend they don’t give you like the whole world literally because of a dumb notebook come on dude you guys don’t know what you’re talking about. And we have no idea why he got that upset. We don’t know his side of the story. They were arguing and we don’t know why or who’s in the wrong or if both are

[@mayhelenaplumb7002]

Re: "be pretty and you'll get get the guy" - I found it funny that you started talking about how problematic that is while showing the scene of Ariel jumping the carriage over the gully, which is one the things that actually redeems it a bit for me. The tour-of-the-kingdom montage shows Ariel being super curious, adventurous, and generally engaged with the world, and I see that as what makes Eric grow affection towards her (it's very similar to the festival montage in Tangled!) And to a certain extent, they are finding a way to communicate. This doesn't completely counteract the problematic messaging, but it improves it for me.

[@FioreCiliegia]

I think an even better example is between Jane and Tarzan in the “Strangers like me” sequence. You can learn love someone because they help you see things you never noticed before in a new way. Eric doesn’t have much character development and he also gets brain controlled so that doesn’t help, but what we do know is that he wants to learn things by doing and experiencing them first hand. He doesn’t want to live vicariously through others (like Ariel was forced to do to experience half the world she was born into) So he is attracted to someone who is the same way. Not an encouraged trait in a refined courtly lady.

[@WhitneyDahlin]

I defend this movie because Ariel didn't give up her voice for Eric. She always wanted to live on land. Eric just symbolized that for her. It wasn't That she wanted to be human only because she was "in love" with eric. She wanted to be human and have legs way before she ever met eric! She's been collecting human stuff for her whole life. Her whole life she wanted legs to be able to dance, to be able to live on land. And she was willing to risk everything to for the chance to have it. Eric was just a very small part of why she made the decision to risk it all. If she never wanted to be human before and then she saw Eric and decided she would risk it all that would be stupid and indefensible. But that isnt what happened, that would be a totally different movie and a totally different conversation. She gave up her voice for the chance to live her dream and be able to have legs and live on land permanently, not because she just wanted to be with Eric. I'm sure she could have just asked her dad to give Eric fins and make him a merman if she truly just wanted to be with him But that isn't what she wanted.

[@brigidtheirish]

I mostly remember Eric looking justifiably terrified for his life and realizing that Ariel is a *horrible* friend to Flounder. I mean, she pretty much bullied him into going with her to the shipwreck and nearly got him *killed.*

[@animehuntress9018]

I think a lot of people forget how New Asl and other sign languages are as we know them. They have existed in many different forms throughout many cultures but were usually isolated to a region, or even to family depending on the use. I can appreciate what they are saying but at the same time it wasn't very logical for Ariel's situation. Your right that they were communicating in more then just hormones during this montage. It goes hand in hand with people stating that Ariel should have written things out. I also loved how Ariel tried to convey things with her hands when they initially meet. I think there was a lot showing she wasn't just being driven by hormones. There is stuff wrong with the movie and I'm glad they came at this legitimately. I think they missed there mark on some thing and on others "Nailed it to the floor", lol. My biggest cheer is the fact they aren't saying Ariel traded her voice for Eric.

[@katielee7897]

@@animehuntress9018 there’s an episode from the little mermaid series where a deaf mermaid communicates with ASL to Ariel

[@jonathanmcdevitt2140]

On the subject of body language there's actually an interesting inversion. From her body language, Ursula's intention is implied to be sexual, but Ariel's body language _is_ a large part of how she communicates with Eric; it's just through a different facet. Her facial expressions, her energetic movements, all of it serves to communicate her passion and drive and energy, and ultimately that's a large part of what endears her to Eric. Ariel doesn't have a story arc in the same way that Eric and Triton do; she actually changes very little if at all by the end of the film, but she does help progress Eric's arc from "I want pretty-voiced lady" to "I need someone with the passion to actively engage me". Ursula is very clearly indicating that Ariel should seduce Eric, but Ariel operates on a complete subversion of that, so I think your assertion that "the film doesn't do anything to negate that" (kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5nOkqSih61pmKM) misses the subtlety of the character. Her body language plays an active role in shaping her story and Eric's story arc, because it's the only means she has to communicate with Eric at all. Honestly I could write an entire thesis on the various aspects of this film and how it fits within larger film theory, but you should check out Lindsay Ellis' video on the subject. I won't link it here (feels like bad manners?), but it goes over a lot of other points on Ariel, her role in the story of the film, and some of the other ways the film fits in film theory.

[@elanorthefair1091]

I think the problem is that the film doesn't clearly address that that is what is happening. If two grown men, a therapist and a filmmaker, miss that and instead pick up on the lack of communication and the "just be pretty" message, then what hope do little children have to get any different message from it?

[@ThatQatPerson]

That was beautifully said! I want to add that even in relationships where both partners have common languages available for communication it is also the actions of our partners that we grow to love. The things they do, not just say. Ultimately it may be more difficult without words but it isn't impossible.

[@DiamondsRexpensive]

Don't write, make a KZbin video

[@DiamondsRexpensive]

Also what's the title of the video you've link? Cuz it doesn't work

[@ariannebrodeur]

I mean I agree body language is a way of communicating for sure and I think it's great that yes clearly Ariel doesn't go for seduction, the entire scene of them going out is really wholesome and lovely out of context bc it does show how people can enjoy each other's company even without communicating. But I think the point others made and also what Jonathan and Alan made is that the Context of the story is what really ruins that scene. Yes Ariel doesn't explicitly act sexual but nothing really negates the idea of the physical attraction, that kind of thing is not always sexual, and what Ursula says kinda covers both kinds. That and the fact that it is a 3 day time limit and she's supposed to be making this man fall in love with her and they DO ultimately marry on the 3rd/4th day of knowing each other altogether contextualizes an otherwise sweet scene of slowly getting to know someone into justifying that this is all you need for a relationship with someone, specifically romantic and that really is not a safe or healthy message because relationships are much more than enjoying each other's company and finding things you like in each other. It's a decent part of it, a great first step to it, but ultimately falls under the category of infatuation. So I have to agree with the other person who replied to this comment, the overall message is not really sound, especially for a child audience lmao

[@MichaelJones-cr7tv]

As a lawyer, I really just want to do a deep dive on all of the issues with the contract between Ariel and Ursula (and later Triton). It is so ridiculously unenforceable, Ariel could've scored a shitload of thingamabobs recovering from Ursula if she just had some decent fish representation.

[@Johnny_Socko]

I would love to see Ariel's tort lawyer being a literal shark...

[@elizabethjennings231]

That and also no one read the contract BEFORE signing! 🤣🤣🤣

[@MichaelJones-cr7tv]

@@elizabethjennings231 She’s a minor, it’s negotiating an illegal term (slavery), it’s against public policy, Ursula actively impedes Ariel’s ability to fulfill the contract, Triton is made to sign under duress… so many aspects render it unenforceable

[@molotov11235813]

See, the problem I think we're having here is that it's not a *legal* contract at all. It's a *magic* contract. Whole different ballgame.

[@metired01]

As a law student, I totally support that statement.

[@akkiko]

i kind've always interpreted triton's enthusiasm for ariel's romance to be because it meant she'll focus on her place in the ocean. hence the "who the lucky *mer*man."

[@loganu4664]

It's also kind of a metaphor for assuming your child is one sexuality when they actually are another. Like how Triton thinks Ariel's in love with a merman when she's actually in love with a human, some parents think their children are straight and push the heteronormative narrative onto them when in actuality their child could be gay, bi, pan, aro, ace, or anything in between. That's how my mind interprets it anyway (as a token straight chaotic ally friend)

[@Tremere]

@@loganu4664 Yeah its so crazy parents assume they're kids are straight when 95%+ of the population is straight. Absurd really

[@toxicwisteria1547]

Something I'm really surprised they didn't talk about: Triton's absolute tantrum he throws when he finds Ariel's grotto. He acts like a big child, screams, scares her, breaks her stuff... I don't care if he's trying to protect her. How is doing that anything but abuse? And Ariel doesn't decide to leave until after Triton does all that. To me that just screams like a young person trying to get out of an abusive situation because she's scared. And as far as her hiding things from her father... Um...yeah. You don't come out to abusive parents because you don't want to get disowned or worse. We as an audience know Triton loves her because we see scenes of him caring. But Ariel doesn't. And she only goes to Ursula right after his outburst. She's afraid. I'd want out too.

[@annabourbon]

This! Personally as a kid, Triton was really scary. I mean if you pay attention, even Sebastian was scared of him and you can see how bad he treats everyone when he's mad. And coming back to The Little mermaid 3 you can see Triton doesn't even want to talk about music or stuff which in context puts him in a bad place, even if he's not all bad. There is definitely little space for Ariel to talk about her likes or dislikes. Another thing I realized about him while rewatching the movie last night is that he could perfectly be a yandere. He has all the traits that describe a yandere. Violent, controlling, scary, sudden outbursts if you talk about things he doesn't like or want to hear about. Etc. He even has power, lots of it. So it definitely makes sense Ariel's not gonna ask for help to her dad. The irony's that he could have turned her into human and turned himself into human, walk around the town, make sure she realized how dangerous they are. And how they don't care about fish or sea at all. Let her know that humans killed her mom and that alone would have settled her curiosity plus make her angry and careful towards them. That's a better outcome than him destroying her collection.

[@scandisnowgirl3696]

Ugh this is so true. Triton really reminds me of my own father. I think he does love me and is well meaning but it always comes out in cold/angry/abusive and loud ways instead of in a caring and accepting way. I responded EXACTLY how they described and hid things from him and rebelled. I have had a horrible struggle through adulthood bc of it and my father says I only have myself to blame. And while I do accept that I take responsibility for my own decisions that led to this life path, he is wrong that only I am to blame, we both are. He weaponised love and support to the point that it completely eroded trust between us and I felt I had no choice but to leave and protect myself.

[@AndrewMcSkiah]

to us, humans living in the XXI century it's logical to avoid Triton's attitude and reaction because we have years of experience as "humanity". But then, merpeople living in the 1800 more or less, as they say who knows what rules they were living with. Is it wrong? According to our rules today, of course. According to the god of the sea around 300 years ago, Maybe not really.

[@Lina-lq7jm]

And if you were in Triton's position, and your wife died by the "hand" of humans, would you be really thrilled to see your daughter idolize the barbarians who killed her mother?

[@Miss_Camel]

@@Lina-lq7jm well, isn’t a fascination with death and morbidity and danger common with kids who lose a parent or sibling at a young age? I’m 100% basing this on television, mainly “Dead like me”. But when I was 12, my Big Major Crush was killed, and I became obsessed with cemeteries, so it seems accurate.

[@lacieparker11]

As a fellow therapist and someone who is queer, I love this movie. Ariel has always been my favorite Disney princess. This is why I will continue to defend Ariel: 1. When we first meet Ariel, she is exploring a sunken ship to collect more “human stuff.” She is so preoccupied with her love of the human world that she completely forgets about the concert. This right away establishes just how much Ariel is fascinated with the human world. 2. Ariel’s “I want” song, Part of Your World, comes up fairly early in the movie, before meeting Prince Eric. She wants to be human, to learn, to explore, to grow, to be free. This has nothing to do with romance, a man, or anyone else, but rather, her own desire to experience something else-something better. 3. Even after she meets Prince Eric, she has no intention of going to Ursula or trading her voice. Instead, she talks about meeting him outside his palace, splashing around to get his attention, i.e., being herself. 4. It is only after her father finds and destroys her statue of Prince Eric and her ENTIRE collection of human stuff (that she must have spent YEARS of hard work building) that she broke. Even when Flotsam and Jetsam (Ursula’s eels) initially tried to convince her to make a deal with Ursula, she refused. She finally changed her mind after they tossed the broken piece of the statue with Prince Eric’s face her way. 5. When she made the deal with Ursula, she was still very hesitant. She had to be manipulated in order to actually go through with it. 6. As you mentioned in the video, she was only 16. I imagine I would have done something similarly regrettable at that age, full of hormones, without a fully developed prefrontal cortex, after a deeply emotional fight with my parents. 7. When she is in the human world with Prince Eric, she still finds ways to express herself and be herself without speaking, from brushing her hair with the dinglehopper, to playing the snarfblat, to driving the carriage. 8. While Prince Eric is attracted to her and seemingly enamored by her (even without her voice), her wasn’t in love with her. That’s why he needed to be convinced by Grimsby to propose to Ariel. It’s only after Ariel got her voice back that she fell in love with him. 9. Ariel’s grief after finding out Prince Eric was engaged to another woman is understandable. I don’t think this makes her weak or complacent; instead, this is a normal, healthy reaction to finding out devastating news. And once she learned the truth, she took action by doing what she could to stop the wedding. 10. No, she is not the one who took down Ursula, but arguably, there was not a whole lot she could do. Again, I didn’t read this as her being weak or complacent, but rather her current circumstances, especially because she didn’t give up. As a child, I was obsessed with this movie; I watched it so often that I basically had it memorized. However, it never made me want to give up my voice, nor did it convince me that romance is based on appearance alone. Rather, one of the biggest influences it had on me is that I wanted to be a mermaid. As an adult, I can still appreciate Ariel’s tenacity and her determination to go after her dreams, despite making some mistakes in the process. Also, from a queer perspective, I think a lot of us can relate to Ariel feeling different, like she doesn’t belong in the world where she was placed and wanting more. Howard Ashman, one of the lyricists who worked on The Little Mermaid, was gay. His experience as a queer man comes through especially with Part of Your World, which is why this song tends to resonate so much with those of us who identify as LGBTQIA+. Okay, end of soapbox ;)

[@arielruby13]

Thank youuu!

[@nofacespacetasmr3008]

Thanks Friend your a life saver

[@janiceandthomas]

This was super refreshing to read. I definitely want to rewatch it now with these points in mind.

[@annyebei]

I also heard the original story was a queer one where the writer was speaking of his unrequited love for his male friend (who was getting married). And yes, I'm talking about the BE version where Ariel turns to foam. He couldn't write Ariel as a man, I presume, because of the times, but yeah. *sips tea*

[@anastasiastauber5332]

You are person after my own heart! Thank you for spending time on listing those points! I think The Little Mermaid suffers from the Mandela effect and people just accept the negative views of the movie when in actuality they haven’t seen the movie in a long time!

[@carolinemargolis9124]

In defense of the Ariel: Ariel was passionate about humans before Eric. Yes, giving up your voice is not the best idea. But Ursula is the one who puts the stipulation that she needed to get the man. I am not convinced Ariel would have put all her time and energy into getting him to like her without the time limit Ursula gave her. I think Ariel would have explored the human world without Eric and loved it. I never thought of it as body dysmorphia, I feel like it was more like being stuck in a small town and needing a ride to get to the city.

[@noemilibralato2052]

I agree with that: I don't see body dismorphia, I see someone who's trying to belong somewhere else.

[@soxngbfkdnfnx]

I like this!

[@LittleHobbit13]

Agreed, I don't think she's has body dysmorphia. If Triton had given her legs before she met Eric, she still would have gone on land. She didn't "give up her life for a man" like people like to claim.

[@samanthajeffers9339]

I feel the same way. I think this move definitely has small town girl vibes, and she’s basically interested in a new culture that’s super different from hers. And I disagree with the hoarding- because it’s not scattered everywhere. She takes time to collect and keep it, and she talks to her seagull friend to ask about their culture. As for Eric and the spell Ursula put on her- couldn’t we argue she’s being manipulated? Because she DOES realize she’ll never see her family again. But Ursula sees she’s a vulnerable 16 year old with hormones and also pushes Ariel’s desires on her and twists it to get what she wants

[@jasonblalock4429]

Yeah, Ariel is a human weeb. She was looking for any excuse to head for land. She just got lucky that Eric turned out to be a genuinely good guy.

[@RavenclawFtW3295]

"How long do fish last? A couple years?" Actually, yes. Most fish only live for about five years or less. My college professor said the oldest fish he ever aged was about 16 years old. The same age Ariel is in the movie.

[@tyrone6618]

oh no does that she'll never have kids? I NEED MY DIRECT TO VIDEO SEQUEL!!!

[@vickybell2806]

Take this with a pinch of salt, but I think the original mythology said that mermaids would live up to like 500 years. To base them off regular fish is not accurate.

[@muchanadziko6378]

Greenland Sharks can live up to 500 years actually

[@tyrone6618]

@@vickybell2806 oh. Welp hope she doesn't get attached to Eric then...although she did fall in love in like 30 seconds so she'll rebound fast

[@muurrarium9460]

Your college professor is an idiot. Yes tropical aquarium-fish usually do not live very long. My guppies got to at least 7 years old, like the the very small stuff, but go to the corydoras and L-number family (again the smaller ones people keep in the homes, not the ones in the zoos) to are already talking about 2 or more decades. Go the the sea where they catch and kill tuna that have been swimming for 180 years at least! (n wonder they are being fished to extinction by us)

[@srialekhyananduri7036]

I find Trition being happy that Ariel fell in love and he is excited to see who the lucky Merman is honestly surprising and sweet. Instead of him being like I know better and you marry the merman I choose. He was happy for his daughter here and wants to meet this guy who won his daughter's heart. That's nice.

[@fnaffangirl123]

Ya and then he finds out who it is and freaks out

[@SusanaCanales1]

@@fnaffangirl123 true. But I can kinda understand that tho. Choosing a human would mean choosing a more difficult life than if it were a merman.

[@fnaffangirl123]

@@SusanaCanales1 ya but I feel like most dads react like that when they don't approve of their daughters crush

[@SusanaCanales1]

@@fnaffangirl123 true, but I think that’s in normal circumstances. Theirs wasn’t normal considering Ariel and Triton are mermaids and Triton’s wife was killed by humans so his feelings towards her crush on Eric was understandable.

[@fnaffangirl123]

@@SusanaCanales1 true

[@playererror4044]

My argument on this film that didn't get addressed here is: Ariel did not get a chance to really think through her decision; she's just been scared by her father who just broke all her stuff and clearly has anger issues which I'm sure makes her not want to go back, especially when it's a fresh experience. Ursula is also pressuring her to make a choice, it's not like Ariel got any time to process it exactly, she was offered what she really wanted (IE: Legs and a chance to be human, something she wants long before she see's Eric) and something she wants right now (IE: Eric), A perfect escape Ursula is pushing her towards... and remember she's 16; she's being taken advantage of and makes a bad decision while emotionally vulnerable being offered to her by someone who does want to hurt her. Point is I feel the girl deserves a lot more slack then she usually gets (Though you were a lot kinder to her then most are)

[@themoo_spl]

This is a really good point! I think its overlooked because we can't hear anything from Ariel while she's mute, not even her inner voice. Perhaps in the remake, she might be questioning if it was the right choice with her inner voice that we could hear

[@InvdrDana]

@@themoo_spl You know, that never occurred to me as something that could've been done. Maybe because I've always been fine with the movie as is, but that would've been interesting to hear what was going on in her head even if she couldn't verbally express it.

[@ilovegod0106]

I agree

[@thelittlemerman1998]

Absolutely we need to cut her some slack I’m so sick and tired of people bad mouthing about her she’s 16 she was emotionally vulnerable and made a bad choice!

[@bemusedbandersnatch2069]

Honestly though, nobody likes to think that they're so stupid as to get swindled into ruining their own life. It happens allll the time but nobody likes to think it could happen to them. Easier to blame that person on being a rube than to admit that that's one slick fast-talking witch who probably could've convinced you too!

[@graceless000]

Ok but the thing is, she never saw Eric before, she’s been collecting human things for years. I think she thinks Eric is handsome but what she really wanted more than anything was to be apart of the human world. Maybe she thought of him as a path that would lead her closer to how she wanted to live. It’s kinda like the argument people have against Cinderella. She didn’t go to the ball hoping to marry the prince like every other girl there. She just wanted to have a fun night out for once. She didn’t even know he was the prince until her step sisters and step mother told her about it.

[@Wiiguy1606]

Also the key thing that convinced Ariel that Eric was worth saving was because he went back onto a burning ship to save his dog. she could have actually believe that humans are as her father put it "spineless harpoon fish eaters incapable of any feeling" but no Ariel actually saw Eric as a prime example against Triton's racist beliefs against humans. You are absolutely right about Cinderella she didn't know she was dancing with the prince. Heck the excuse for her to leave at midnight approaching was that she hasn't met the prince. In fact the real reason I think the prince was drawn to Cinderella at the ball was because everybody else was literally lined up to meet him because he's the prince but she was the one who was standing far in the back of the room away from the crowd

[@elizabeththequeen57]

That's true; and in Andersen's "Little Mermaid" it's even more explicit, as there the mermaids don't have souls and humans do, so his little mermaid's goal is to get a soul, meaning to be fully human. I didn't see this undertone in my childhood, when watching the Disney version, but it's actually there, it's good to rewatch it as an adult and finally see it.

[@Sophie_Pea]

@@Wiiguy1606 I hate the argument that cinderella was a weak protagonist who just relied on the prince to save her as well. Like it’s quite literally said by the narrator that she was abused, and her strength to get up and show a positive face and look for the good in things is something big in itself, but then we do see her try to go to the ball on her own as well and she’s stopped from going altogether BECAUSE of those same people who constantly abuse her. People tend to say she did nothing, but she made an attempt and was pushed down again and it’s only after that that the fairy godmother comes into the picture. Then there’s also the factors that you mentioned, she just wanted a nice night off for once and just happened to come across the Prince, who she didn’t even know was the prince.

[@Furienna]

@@Sophie_Pea However, it is true that marriage was Cinderella's only honorable way to escape her abusive stepmother. But it doesn't mean that she was a weak protagonist, since we have to blame that on the society around her and not on her.

[@PrincessMeggala0913]

@@Wiiguy1606I am so glad you included Eric saving Max! 😂 I definitely think that is part of her saving him. But I mean-she did think Eric was handsome too 😂

[@sydneyt7482]

The thing about saying “I am never to hear of you doing x” as a parent is it leaves the possibility of your kid hearing “as long as I don’t find out, you’re golden”

[@brooke9847]

I'm so glad I see so many comments of people having the same interpretation that I had when I watched this growing up. It wasn't about getting the guy for her it was about getting to experience the world she always dreamed of and Eric just happened to be apart of it. Eric fell in love with her for her personality in spite of not being able to communicate at first, not because of her not being able to talk; plus, she had to save him first so she wasn't the damsel in distress.

[@cairrean2412]

Eric was infatuated with the voice of the girl who saved him. He fell in love with the girl he saved(from his own dog).

[@sailormoonwannabe]

I just commented like the same thing. She gave up everything under the water for the life on land, Eric just pushed it to happen quicker.

[@sammyolson7664]

You guys should really look into the stage version of this story. Eric actually really enjoys Ariel's company and falls in love with the way she does communicate with him, without her voice, and he doesn't really know if he wants to find the girl with the voice because it means he'll lose Ariel. Ursula never shows up to steal Eric away from Ariel, it's just a story of them really falling in love and him choosing her

[@TippytoeZombie]

I saw a really good argument for how good the Little Mermaid is on Tumblr talking about how Ariel is an anthropologist and Ursula made it all about a man. Ariel wanted to experience the culture, Ursula forced her to focus on the romance.

[@carmengomez3748]

You can see this on the second day she spent on the surface. She is exploring the town, she wants to see everything, ride the carriage.... she is not focused on Eric at all!!

[@brandf.7691]

Yeah, I've always seen the romance as something Ariel took as a convenient tool to get what she wanted, which was a life on the land. She's been obsessed with that for her whole life, her teenage feelings for Eric are just a good push for her to actually do something about it.

[@lottaraatikainen3942]

I guess it's a twisted version of the original story: what the Little Mermaid actually wanted was to gain an immortal soul and through it salvation. But the only way she could do this was by having a man love her more than his parents, with his whole heart and soul, and marry her so she would get to share his soul. In the end of the original fairy tail one of the maidens of air even especially points this out: a mermaid's salvation depends on a man while the maidens of air can earn their salvation through service to humans in general.

[@_the_little_mermaid_]

@@brandf.7691 as a zodiac sign enthusiast, this is exactly why I categorize Ariel as a Leo ♌️ even though people just call her “selfish” or “attention seeker” there’s a lot of layers to her character.

[@fcv4616]

@@brandf.7691 To an extent, but I think that take also devalues the romance and the right for Ariel (and women in general) to be romantic. The fact that she fell in love with Eric doesn't undervalue her previous dream to explore the human world, nor viceversa, both dreams compliment each other. While I get annoyed with haters who say Ariel gave up her voice just for a man, it's also unfair to say that Ariel just "used" Eric or that he was merely an afterthought, because then we would be playing under the idea of modern Hollywood pop-feminism that a strong, feminist character mustn't prioritise romance in her life, which I think is actually more toxic than it is feminist or empowering. Ariel was a hopeless romantic and a bit boy-crazy, and that is okay, because she's young, inexperienced and eager to explore the human world and to grow up, and falling in love with Eric is a symbolism for her awakening sexuality and her desire to become independent from her father.

[@JLuvsWicked93JRL]

I have a couple points. 1: Ariel doesn’t really care about her voice, everyone else in the movie does. Yes there is a bit of a communication barrier there, but Sebastian also somewhat acts as an interpreter in “Kiss the Girl.” Eric is so hung up on the voice of the girl who saved him that Ursula is able to hypnotize him with it, when Grimsby has a point. Obviously he’s attracted to Ariel for her looks, personality and just fascination with things around her, so why be hung up on something as inconsequential (to Ariel at this point) as a voice. Though she doesn’t have a voice she’s not actively trying to seduce him, she’s enjoying her new self with him just tagging along and he finds her charming and endearing and she has found someone who’s accepting her for who she wants to be instead of controlling her or objectifying her for that hot ass voice. 2: Ursula gave Ariel an impossible task to begin with. One could see it as a ticking clock and it’s a fairy tale so “True Loves Kiss” is just a staple plot device, but I see it as her setting up Ariel to fail from the start. Not only being unable to effectively communicate, but in her mind it’s “yeah these kids are hot for each other but nothings gonna happen because they don’t know what they’re doing.” And when Ariel does almost get that smooch in Kiss the Girl, she has that moment of “huh, I underestimated these horny teenagers. Time to intervene!” Being a Disney villain modeled after a drag queen, she goes about it in the most ✨extra✨ way possible. And Ariel, even though she’s attracted to Eric and wants to stay human respects his decision even when it’s breaking her heart, which is why it doesn’t matter what she’s done on the third day. She’s mourning the loss of the life she’s always wanted, which included being with someone who respected her and loved her. 3: Ariel is the point of view character, her wants and desires are what drives the plot, but the character arc is actually about King Triton learning to let his daughter be who she wants to be and be a bit less racist. He sees that she’s not happy as a mermaid and gives her what she wanted most in the world because he loves her and regrets not listening to her and lashing out when he didn’t understand. A parallel to this is when trans kids come out to their parents and their parents don’t know what to do and some do lash out and some come around and respect the pronouns and person their child wants to be. When Ariel and Eric get married (which one could argue *didn’t* happen as soon as Ariel got legs, they had some time in-between to get to know each other, but it’s a 90 minute movie and we gotta wrap this shit up with a happily ever after) he’s there to embrace her and is happy that she’s found happiness, which can’t be said for many queer people (or characters). 4: yes I did steal a lot of these points from Lindsay Ellis, but they bear repeating. The Little Mermaid is more thought-out than people give it credit for, the lyricist, Howard Ashman who was a gay man who died of HIV complications during Beauty and the Beast, had so much influence on the film. From a condescending parent who thinks they know best but are just further closeting their kid, to a whirlwind romance that can end in tragedy or a happy ending, to a fabulous drag performer who’s really good at selling what she’s serving (even if it’s bullshit), to someone finally living the life they want despite the poor decisions they’ve made and the trials they’ve been through. This movie is a staple in the queer community for many reasons.

[@LittleAriel]

I ❤ your comment.🥺👏🏻👌🏻 Thanks for hopefully enlightening these guys. I mean, one of them wrote a thesis about gender roles in Disney films (or something to that effect), and still didn't know - or bother to refresh his memory - about Howard Ashman and his influence on the film... or about the fact that Ursula was an *homage* to Devine and drag queens, *not* negative queer coding... smh 😤

[@RoseVampireGirl4]

Yes and to add you can clearly tell they have a thirst for adventure same as eric.( her hunting for her human things ie. Treasure) and just plain enthusiasm for life. And i will die on that hill

[@Lialey22]

thanks for your comment! I was loosing it more and more .. this wasn't even remotely a good analysis of the film at all Its crucial that Triton is the one who has to make that heros journey and changing for the better. While Ariel was never the one in the story who had to learn something. She was right not prejudicing all the humans and just wanting to be herself. And thats why its totally valid to give up her voice to become who and what she wants. Which is not a bad lesson for your children wtf

[@LoraCoggins]

I interpret Ariel saying, "I'm 16 years old, I'm not a child anymore" as "I'm 16, I'm the oldest I've ever been so far, I've become much more knowledgeable and mature than I've ever been before, and yet I'm being treated like I have little to no knowledge or maturity at all. I want you to understand me and respect me on the same level that I understand and respect myself. I can't trust you as a parent if you won't trust me as an individual, not just your daughter." And that I can wholly relate to.

[@aestheticgcddess]

Same here and you said it ✨beautifully✨

[@VermisTerrae]

Man, if only I could have had that kind of conversation when I was a teenager! Took me about 10 more years to understand that's what I needed, haha. That sums it up perfectly.

[@eRoTiCCrEaTiOnS]

Well said! 👏 ✨

[@arielruby13]

exactly that!

[@manuelashka07]

Oh my god yes thank you for putting this into words

[@pizzalover1548]

I have to contend Alan's critique on Ariel, "What does she do with her last day as a human?". Ariel is rightly heartbroken when Eric declares he will marry Vanessa, but she is surprisingly emotionally mature to accept that Eric may be in love with someone else. As individuals, we have to accept we don't control other people's feelings, but that doesn't mean we're not allowed to have feelings. Crying doesn't make a woman a weak, passive character. But Ariel DOES intervene when Scuttle, the sea gull, tells her that Eric is being hypnotised, and that Ursula is cheating on their deal. Rather than just sit, overwhelmed and impotent, Ariel actively goes to the ship to stop the wedding. Sure, her animal friends made it possible for her to arrive in time, but Ariel wasn't passive as you imply, Alan. She was bold and tried to participate.

[@mulefeather6064]

Not only that. What does she do when Eric is held at trifork-point by Ursula? Right, she stops Ursula by pulling her hair, thus killing her pets.

[@beethovensfidelio]

Ariel just simply showed up. She didn’t intervene. She just stood there once she arrived to the boat. The animals did all the work.

[@beethovensfidelio]

@@mulefeather6064 Yeah, but afterwards she sits on a rock, which Ursula zaps causing Ariel to fall inside the vortex of water. Ariel then passively watches Eric kill Ursula.

[@mulefeather6064]

@@beethovensfidelio Give me an example of what she could have done in that situation. She had no weapons, no legs and no physical strength compared to mega-Ursula. What could she do but watch in horror?

[@mulefeather6064]

@@beethovensfidelio She had no idea what to do. She had no voice and no weapons, and no way to communiate. She didn't ask for the help. The animals were her friends and chose to help her. I don't see how that makes her passive. Had she been there alone she would've thought of something as we already know she's creative.

[@allisonbachmeier2750]

My argument for this movie is that she didn’t give up her voice and family for a man, she gave it up to pursue a passion of discovering and learning about a different culture. She was collecting human items way before Eric and had a deep desire to learn and be someone else in pursuit of that. Was it a good idea to leave your voice and family for that reason? Probably not. But you can argue that she had deeper and more understandable reasons for doing so than to get a pretty boy. And id also argue the only reason she then pursues Eric while as a human is that what she needs to stay on land where she wants to be, not that she wants to be with him necessarily

[@SusannahGraceMusic]

Also, it wouldn't have been hard for her to figure out that Eric was royalty. I feel like it wouldn't be too hard for her to "fall in love" with him once she knew he was a Prince. Even though she didn't care for her own status in her father's kingdom, she was desperate to leave the sea and maybe she wanted to continue living the same lifestyle, plus a prince would allow her access to almost anything she wanted or any place she wanted to go above land

[@DodirAnelaIntuitivnoOtvaranje]

That, but also, looking at original story, being with Eric gave her *soul* that she didn't have as a fish! I was so young when I read original, it broke my heart, but Disney gave her that happy ending so for that I loved this movie. Now I see that Hans's version is more like life

[@IONE_the_Enby]

I agree, Eric was simply the 'push' that made Ariel pursue her transformation

[@caitlyn189]

Is Ariel like.. Jane from Tarzan??

[@bridgetg6857]

Ariel is basically a weeb.

[@Lost_Quasar]

Ignoring the relationship issues, Ariel was my escape. My home life was terrible and I projected onto her. She tooks steps and 'escaped', and I used to dream that I could get away like she did. I eventually did, but when I was a little kid, she helped me.

[@lovethetry6127]

As someone who struggles with situational mutism, I found their ability to begin forming a relationship and connection really uplifting. Someone can still love me even when I am incapable of verbal speech and communication; it meant a lot to see that represented and to make me feel less like a burden and freak. That I am someone worth listening to even when what's being listened to isn't words. My facial expressions, and indeed, my body language are valid forms of communication. Someone just needs to accept that and pay attention. But also yeah no, for the most part F the messaging.

[@idesireahimbo]

I knew someone in school with situational mutism - just know that you aren't a freak and there will always be people out there who love you no matter what 💜

[@rellypat102]

100% agree, I was selective mute as a child and Ariel was my favorite Disney princess for that reason. I loved this movie but now watching it I'm like damn yeah this is not a good message lol

[@vanessarl8]

Guys lovethetry said situational mutism, not selective. We are trying to change it for that bc we don't choose not to speak, or/and either when, it's just in certain occasions(or always(?) that brings you anxiety for example. And certain people specially strangers(not necessarily and not all we are all different), but then with people you trust and are confortable like friends or family we may speak with them. That's why situational suits better! :)

[@idesireahimbo]

@@vanessarl8 Oop - my apologies. Thank you for educating me, I didn't know! I'll edit my comment :)

[@vanessarl8]

@@idesireahimbo Yw! It's ok I know most people don't know! And thanks for your first comment it's very sweet ☺️🧡

[@MythicalMutt]

It’s also important to remember that Queen Athena, Ariel’s mom, was killed after a run-in with a pirate ship that attacked the merpeople. Triton was able to save several of his daughters from the incident, but lost his wife. So it does make sense that he is adamantly against Ariel having anything to do with the surface world.

[@lyndsaybrown8471]

Was this explained in the movie?

[@xmiunax4385]

@@lyndsaybrown8471 in the prequel but not this one

[@Rikrobat]

This is a good point, but this fact was added afterwards, in a third-movie prequel. For this movie, it could be any reason you'd like, including the possibility of a merperson falling for a human.

[@MythicalMutt]

@@Rikrobat That's fair. I would argue that there seems to be a blanket rule against going to the surface that goes for all merpeople, or so I always assumed. At the very least, the reactions of both King Triton and Sebastian seem to indicate that going to the surface isn't something that is the norm for individuals in this kingdom. If the issue is just "we don't want merpeople falling in love with humans," banning going to the surface altogether doesn't seem like a terribly reasonable or effective response. It always seemed more based in fear of injury rather than "we don't want them being attracted to each other."

[@risachi6018]

@@Rikrobat True

[@angelwingkat]

Counter statement, if I may. In regards to Ariel being willing to give up her family and voice for Ursula's deal. In the context of the film it does make a lot of sense, because this is when Ariel is near her lowest point. Her father just had the biggest blow up and destroyed her entire grotto of trinkets that she had come to hold very dear. She was devastated. It felt like an impassable divide had formed between her and her father and on top of that, another family figure she had come to trust, Sebastian, had ratted her out to her father. You see this pain in her acid remark to Sebastian and she brushes him off when she decides to go to Ursula. She feels trapped, like things could never get better, and her father (and by extension her family) have become the source of all her pains and problems. Had she been given more time to cool down and think things through she may have chosen different but here it makes sense why an emotional teen would be so willing to give up everything in the off chance of finding a possible escape. Ursula knew this and that's why she jumped on the chance while Ariel's pain was still fresh and persuaded Ariel into believing that this is the only way. To me personally, it's a very realistically handled scene.

[@Capydapy]

omg thankyou ! Finally somebody gets it !!!!

[@bugsbunny3518]

Exactly! It's so obvious they're giving Ursula the benefit of the doubt here just because she's the villain. I'm not saying Ariel was totally in the right, however, Ursula manipulates her. It's right there in "Poor Unfortunate Souls." Not to mention, she illegally broke her own contract by going as Vanessa and hypnotizing Eric.

[@Kai-Xi]

Giving up her literal voice for legs may not seem like a big deal to her when she already feels like she doesn't have a figurative voice at home

[@angelwingkat]

@@Kai-Xi Well put! In fact it's apparent that Ariel takes her positive qualities, such as her amazing voice, for granted and doesn't find much joy in singing compared to the idea of having legs, which is why making it to the concert in the beginning was not a priority for her (and no we're not including the tv series or sequels in this discussion). She was focused on what she didn't have rather than what she did. Even when confronted with the idea of losing her voice, she was not upset by the idea of not being able to sing, simply how it would hinder her ability to communicate. It's ironic, but also kind of a nice message, that the qualities that made her who she is were what actually drew Eric to her (ie her lovely voice), rather than what she tried to pretend to be. Yeah it's simplified down to a really fast fairy tale love affair, but as a basic message I like it. Too bad it wasn't addressed further.

[@Capydapy]

@@Kai-Xi Now that you mention it...oof. Yeah. Poor Ariel.

[@itsbrimeeks]

One thing I love about being an adult is being able to look back on why this movie makes me nostalgic and think fondly of my childhood while also being able to look at it critically with my adult lens. Both are possible and it need not be a joyless process! :)

[@batgirl.with.glasses5281]

Ariel and Triton’s relationship reminds me of my older sister and my dad’s relationship. Unfortunately they still don’t get along great, but my dad is learning that she doesn’t want to be protected and she has a six year old so she is learning what it’s like to be a fearful parent.

[@nathancruz9172]

Sorry to hear that.

[@Martyn_Wolf]

Parenting is cyclical in nature always has been. You teach your kids what your parents taught you, plus the experiences you accrue too. Want to parent better, teach your kids the shit that your parents DID NOT teach you

[@oooh19]

@@Martyn_Wolf well perspective changes but yea it’s weird people don’t learn from their mistakes and others mistakes and they can learn from their experiences

[@Martyn_Wolf]

@@oooh19 They do indeed change, change is growth. Learning from mistakes requires talking accountability lol I'm guessing you're already aware that most people are adverse to holding themselves accountable foe their own actions.

[@Black-Swan-007]

In the sequel, Return to the Sea, Ariel gets to play the part of the fearful, over protective parent. She learned how to badly parent from her dad who had his own trauma revealed in the prequel Ariel's Beginning (human's killed Triton's Queen).

[@rellikai945]

I think it's really easy to look at just the surface and say, "omg eric was only into her cuz she couldn't talk or mouth off. he liked that she was docile and couldn't talk back or speak up for herself!" The reason I personally do not take issue with Ariel being voiceless is that Eric, despite being charmed and fascinated by her, is still holding out for his mystery savior woman. He hasn't fully given into whatever feelings he might be developing for Ariel because he's set his mind on finding the woman who rescued him. And it's not until the end that Eric realizes she was Ariel all along. In that sense, Eric didn't actually, fully fall in love with her until she regained her voice. I think it's also important to take into consideration that the only Disney princesses that had existed before Ariel were Snow White, Cinderella, and Aurora. To suddenly go from those 3, all of whom take actual, literal passive roles in their own stories, to leaping to Ariel who is rebellious, opinionated, independent, and a go-getter is absolutely bananas to me. Along with that, while the timeframe is still super condensed, Eric and Ariel DO actually take time to get to know each other, they go on a fun little date, they see the town, they ride in a carriage, go for a boat ride; is this all only surface level stuff? Absolutely. But again, compared to Snow, Cinderella, and Aurora, just even going on a single date or spending more than a single evening together was a revolution.

[@ThePuschkin1986]

Ariel is also an improvement in terms of agency for the male characters. The princes in Snow White and Cinderella are notoriously bland, have not even names, we nothing about them. Both spend only minutes with the protagonist girl, singing and dancing respectively. Cinderella's prince could not even be bothered to look for her himself, but send out the Grand Duke with the glass shoe instead (an indicator how little attention he paid to her face?). Sleeping Beauty is a different thing here, since prince Phillip (he has a name!) has a bigger role in the movie, we get to know him somewhat and, although he still spends just minutes with Aurora. Similar to Eric, he has to 'earn' the woman, if you will, by defeating the villain himself, unlike the other guys who just came in later to reap the benefits.

[@memyselfandi7782]

It was a start

[@CharleyPlayGames]

I wouldn't specify that it sealed the deal for Eric when Ariel got her voice back. There's a scene before where Eric's in the tower, ready to throw away his flute because he realized his feelings for Ariel. Then Ursula comes, disguised, on the beach and puts a spell on him.

[@brandonlyon730]

@@ThePuschkin1986 Both snow whites and Cinderella’s princes were originally going to have more screen time in the original movies, with snow whites having to he imprisoned by the Evil Queen in similar matter Phillip was with him trying to escape imprisonment before the dungeon flooded, and Cinderella’s prince had a scene with him hunting some deer and some time in the end to see Cinderella without her ball dress, but these were both the cut for budget and pacing reasons. I think I also heard somewhere that back then it was harder or more boring for animators to draw handsome men, with them preferring to draw animals, woman, and funny comedic men like the dwarfs and the King and Duke finding them a lot easier to draw and paint. I’ll definitely will give Cinderella 3 a lot of credit for giving the Prince a lot more screentime and a personality. And being voice by the same guy who also voiced Prince Eric no less.

[@trinaq]

Given how the original story was a lot darker (the Prince falls in love with someone else, the Mermaid refuses to kill him to turn back into a mermaid because she loves him, she turns into sea foam), it makes sense that they changed it for the Disney version.

[@the_UF365]

As Alan Menken said, "To tell a Hans Christen Anderson tale in the Disney style, we essentially had to pastiche Disney."

[@BeastRedAsh]

And don't forget the detail, that Ariel's legs not only came out at the price of her voice, but that every step would be akin to walking on the sharp knives. And she danced with that pain at some point in the book. Her sacrifice is beyond understandable and was truly unfair, making her a mortyr of the story

[@nctpti2073]

And then due to her refusal to kill the prince, is rewarded with purgatory, during which she can earn her way into heaven by doing good deeds for humans for 300 years. Yay?

[@AlexandraGamma]

@@nctpti2073 That last part is the worst of the whole story! I was quite shocked and angry when I read it for the first time.

[@amanichaabane6243]

do you know in the original story, how long have they known each other?

[@bobi200samatar6]

I read Triton's reaction to his daughter's passions and her decision to run away similarly to Romeo and Juliet. If the adults in the kids' lives had just backed off and been cool about their kids' interests, things wouldn't have escalated as far as they did. But Triton gets violent and destroys Ariel's collection, including the gift she just got from her friend, and then just leaves her sobbing. It's then when Floatsam and Jetsam, who have been stalking her all movie waiting for an opportunity to butt in, convince Ariel to seek Ursula. The villain only gets to Ariel when she's emotionally vulnerable and prone to make a rash decision.

[@noemiepace9020]

Honestly the voiceless storyline is not really problematic, as it was never framed as a good thing. When Ursula steals Ariel's voice, it's dark and scary. We know Ariel shouldn't have done that. The reason why she is still so happy later on, and why people might interpret it as Ariel losing her voice to be framed as a good thing, is because Ariel never cared about her voice to begin with. It was nothing beyond just a tool for her, and one that's pretty useless anyway. She misses the concert at the beginning of the movie, showing she doesn't care about singing above just the occasional song (musical numbers don't count). When she argues with Triton, she yells, "But if you would just listen !" -to her voice. But Triton doesn't listen, so it's even useless in this area. Finally, she thought her voice could be useful for charming Eric : "But without my voice, how can I-" only to be interrupted by Ursula, who tells her : "You'll have your looks." So her voice still feels completely useless to her, since she has other charming features anyway. Losing her voice was, to Ariel at the time, a small price to pay for legs and a prince. She didn't care about this tool, a tool which never seemed to serve her well. So when she hangs out with Eric, it's charming because she's happy. Not because she's done the right thing by becoming voiceless. Also I might add, they do make a point to show Ariel feeling the weight of her loss. When Eric recognizes her and asks her for her name, her mouth moves but no sound comes out. Her smile falls and she clutches her throat, feeling the impact of losing a tool which she realizes she had taken for granted. Of course, she still perseveres with her journey happily, because she works around it in her own way. Still, it once again frames Ariel selling her voice off as bad.

[@kaylakaterinazosa3729]

I love your take on this

[@ariana2384k9f]

i honestly love this interpretation; i haven't seen anything like it before

[@kecym.4808]

ohh

[@felixg5463]

Great write-up. The Little Mermaid is essentially a version of the Faust legend, with a protagonist sacrificing something that they value little (Ariel’s voice, Faust’s soul) in exchange for something they believe will bring more immediate happiness.

[@hannah27_99]

Nice one 👍🏼

[@kallista5194]

Here's why: As a child, I was read the Original stories by Hans Christian Anderson. This one was one of my favorites, even though it was heartbreaking. I could identify too easily with heartbreak. A few years later, the movie comes out. And I had...cathartic acceptance that maybe, there's alternate versions of our stories, where things might work out. That was why I loved this movie. I watched it as a form of third grade therapy. Decades later, as a parent of two sons and a daughter: Yeah--without the Hans Christian Anderson foundation, which clearly defines how this story is about making the wrong choice in the name of "love" or blatant infatuation, losing everything and suffering endlessly for it--without THAT--the cartoon version is not cathartic, but typical Disney rose-colored lenses. For my childhood, however, those lenses helped me through some really dark times. It's the pass Disney gets in this one respect.

[@RedRoseSeptember22]

I use Disney as my comfort movies ^_^ when I'm feeling down or just tired of lfie I watch a Disney princess movie and it helps me feel better. ♥

[@alexelion7084]

I‘ve heard the story that Hans Christian Anderson was bisexual and was in love with a man who was straight. He apparently wrote the little mermaid after this unhappy love as a metaphor that „a mermaid could never be with a human“ like he could never be with a man

[@sarahhelene9377]

Yes, I think you need to tie it back to the Andersen version to understand why Disney made the choices it made (let's be honest, the original would've given children nightmares haha) Also, the original version answers a lot of questions about why the movie lacks some inner structure (don't know how to describe it, but the fact remains that Disney had to make drastic changes in their adaptation, and some of the deeper meaning got lost in the translation): the tale is rooted in Christian ideas and homosexual desires. The fact that the little mermaid wants to have a soul (her prime purpose is not love but to be able to access eternal life after her death) and Andersen's own struggles with his sexuality (especially the danger to his soul that his beliefs told him it was, but also the unrequited love that leads to the little mermaid's doom). Honestly for me finding the original version, as heartbreaking as it is, helped me put more meaning in the story I knew from Disney.

[@nyonpa_999]

A pass for *you*. This movie has terrible messaging

[@reniefuwa]

I had the opposite transition. Nothing but happy endings, then I saw the ending of Cowboy Bebop, and it made me *rage*. So I had to work through the idea that there aren't always happy endings

[@ace_of_cakes]

I love the Little Mermaid, it's one of my favorite Disney films, but if I were to name a problem with it, it would not be the supposed lesson that girls should be pretty and quiet. First off, I think the fact that this is stated by the villain shows that the filmmakers meant to underscore its falseness. And while Eric does fall in love with Ariel while she has no voice, his arc contradicts Ursula's ideas of love. Eric is obsessed with this perfect dream girl, he thinks he'll know her instantly, and he's holding out for her. When he meets Ariel, he's disappointed that she doesn't live up to his dreams, but as he spends time with Ariel, he realizes he enjoys her company. He eventually learns that although Ariel might not meet the perfect vision in his head, he loves her. He throws away his flute, and with it his ideas of perfection. By taking away Ariel's voice, Ursula actually took away the one thing that Eric was obsessed with, and in order to win him back, Ariel has to spend time with him and get him to fall in love with her for who she is, not for her voice. If Ursula's argument is that you can reduce a woman down to one beautiful thing that boys will obsess over, Eric's arc shows that real love is about truly seeing the real people around you. My problem with the movie is that Ariel, like most Disney princesses, doesn't get a character arc in her own movie. The strongest arc in the movie goes to Triton, who has to learn to stop trying to control his daughter; the next strongest goes to Eric. But Ariel doesn't have an arc. She wants to be part of the human world, and though she has to overcome several obstacles, that's what she does. She wants to be with Eric, so that's what she does. She doesn't learn any lessons or grow as a person. Of course, not every character has to have a character arc in every movie, but it's concerning that Disney has a collection of movies aimed at young girls with nominal female protagonists, almost none of whom have arcs. But that's more of a problem with Disney princess movies as a whole than with this movie in particular, although this movie does play into that trend.

[@beethovensfidelio]

Had they kept the deleted alternate ending, it would have quelled some of the “Ariel hate”, since Ariel’s apology in the deleted scene is a lot more *sincere* (only after she regains consciousness does she tearfully say to her father, “Oh, Daddy. I’m so sorry. I didn’t mean to hurt you...”): kzbin.info/www/bejne/fHeTkH2BrrV2racm29s . According to the film’s audio commentary track, the alternate ending was cut because then-Disney chairman Jeffrey Katzenberg had just seen the 1988 action film “Die Hard”, and he told “The Little Mermaid” directors John Musker and Ron Clements to make the ending *”more like ‘Die Hard’” (“Guys, guys, I want to see more ‘Die Hard’!”).* YES, REALLY! In other words, Katzenberg wanted to make the climax more epic, which explains why Ursula becomes gigantic in the final film. Damn you, Katzenberg! 😤 Also, in the Broadway version, the beginning of the track “If Only (Reprise)” (kzbin.info/www/bejne/pou8dZ6VgK6Djbs ) has Ariel saying to King Triton, *”I’ve caused you so much trouble. Can you ever forgive me?”* I like that line because it shows what apologizing is all about: *Admitting you did something wrong,* which was what Ariel did!

[@thegardenofeden847]

Oh my gawd, yes. Yes to all of this. Disney princess movies like Mulan and onward do a much better job with this but you and cinema therapy are right. The early iterations of princesses are so passive in their own stories and don’t really get their own character arcs. Sure I love them as people. I love how passionate, adventurous, and outspoken Ariel is but she’s also naive and doesn’t think things through. It would have been nice for her to learn more caution and to be more considerate of others and her actions.

[@DerpDevilDD]

@@thegardenofeden847 Mulan isn't a great example of Disney doing a better job. She's given the opportunity to be an advisor to the Emperor and help change the shape of her country, but turns it down because, no, she has to go back home and be a good daughter and get married.

[@etypings9542]

@@DerpDevilDD Mulan didn't go back home and expect to be married, she went back home because she wants to see her family bc of homesickness (she was gone for a long time for training), she wants to make her family see that she's well and wants them to be proud of her. About the changing of the country thing, sure, it's a good idea to reform the way their country perceives women but at the same time, she wasn't there to be the hero in the first place, she was only there to prevent her father from dying in the war. Maybe she didn't want to take on the responsibility and that's perfectly okay, she shouldn't be shamed of something she didn't want to partake on when the emperor could've reformed the country in honor of her.

[@DerpDevilDD]

@@etypings9542 Of course she expected to be married. That's what was always expected of her.

[@golbatgirl]

one of my biggest pet peeves of this movie is that Ariel can obviously read and write (signs her name on the contract). Why didn't she just write Eric a letter saying that she was the one who saved him? Would have made things a little less oblivious

[@AnakhaSilver]

Because what she writes might not be a language he knows.

[@zer0w0lf94]

Oopsie! When you’re young and dumb and infatuated, you do not think straight 100% of the time! 🤣

[@beethovensfidelio]

@@AnakhaSilverYet Ariel seems to understand English when Eric talks to her. Plus, Ariel speaks English when she gets her voice back. Therefore, Ariel’s communication barriers make no sense since she could write her name on Ursula’s contract. “Splash” (1984), which predates “The Little Mermaid” by 5 years and was produced by Disney (albeit through the “Touchstone Pictures” banner), acknowledged the language barriers between humans and mermaids by having the mermaid Madison speak in high pitched dolphin squeaks only to then teach herself English from watching TV for six hours (just go with it!) so she can verbally communicate with her human boyfriend Allen.

[@cristinademartini1284]

Because when they really met, Ariel had lost her voice, and Eric knew that the person who had saved him had a voice, since she sang to him. Therefore, if Ariel wrote him what really happened, Eric logically wouldn't believe her, since, one he doesn't know that merpeople really exist: for him and his people they are only a fascinating legend; second, he could think she's trying to lie and take advantange of him in order to marry and him and become queen. Ariel knew all of this and instead opted to do nothing and let things happen: and this worked out.

[@lancethefilmguy9392]

​@cristinademartini1284 Exactly. You can not use real-world logic in a Disney film.

[@amymalo748]

to me, Ariel's character isn't about changing and leaving everything behind for a man. Ariel has always been fascinated by humans and their world, her collection makes me think of an anthropologist wanting to learn from the objects she finds. She is very passionate and has so much curiosity, she wants to live in the human world from the start of the film, Eric comes later I think her infatuation and "love" for him are based upon the fascination she has for humans in general (he represent the best the human world has to offer). Her father completely rejects and bans her interest, using force to show his authority to get her to comply, that destruction of everything she loves and has spent years collecting and researching, leaves her in a very emotionally vulnerable state, which Ursula takes advantage of. She wants to have legs and become human so she can explore and live in the place she cares about, Eric as the prince is a "means to an end" in order to get what she wants. So I don't interpret this movie as a love story about individuals at all, it's a love story between Ariel and the human world. When I watch this movie I see a young girl who has the desire to explore the unknown, learn, and discover everything she can, but her father does not support this at all, in fact, he totally rejects and breaks everything she cares about making he feel as if he's rejecting her, so in this very vulnerable situation, she gets taken advantage of by Ursula. If Triton had actually respected her and her interest, giving her freedom whilst also keeping her relatively safe (like going together to find human objects, planning a trip to the human world in a safe way, or even just listening to her as she presents all of her findings), she would not have taken such drastic and dangerous measures to pursue her passion, so to me, this story really is about parental failing and escaping (by less than ideal means) an environment that did not approve of her drive and life purpose.

[@princessangel821]

Thats a solid interpretation👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@Ari_Mondragon]

For me it was always about that: the curiousity and passion she felt for an unknown world to explore! As an introverted kid who wanted to be scientist, those characteristics and her aventurious personality full of life and joy were what made Ariel my favorite princess instead of Belle (for example) who was more likely a science woman than Ariel. Belle's a better character, but I related more to the voiceless girl with body dysmorphia (that was a trans enby signal and I didn't notice) who would give everything for the life she dreams about.

[@ashleymartin8093]

And as you mentioned, it probably took Ariel years to build up her collection so I definitely agree that she's more infatuated with the human world than with the prince. He just so happened to be the first human she interacted with :)

[@MJones-bg9gd]

No one ever questions why no one on land thought to give Ariel a frickin pen and paper! She signs an underwater contact, so we know she can at least write her name! Her bargain with Ursula had the biggest loophole and though Ariel completely missed it, she didn't "hold her tongue to get the man".she explored and engaged the world alongside Eric. Ursula, though trying to hinder her, was right about the importance of how much we communicate without words and Ariel "ran" with it. And I don't think she was completely useless in Eric's rescue, she aqua-manned up!

[@mulefeather6064]

Who says her written language underwater looks like English? We only see it in English so we as the audience can see it and understand it. There is no logical reason why merpeople would actually speak any human language.

[@asterabarrett8750]

@@mulefeather6064 actually its spanish because the location is spain! The language would be most likely mutual due to location

[@mulefeather6064]

@@asterabarrett8750 She doesn't live in Spain. She lives underwater. Her father discourages seeing humans, so how would she have learned Spanish?

[@MJones-bg9gd]

Illiterate or not she could have drawn. And if she didn't speak the language there wasn't much point of taking away her voice, she only had 3 days to learn a language

[@cairrean2412]

It's the era. The movie itself is hard to place and there's no clear evidence suggesting any one era, but we can draw clues from things like the architecture and clothing styles. So from those we can infer that the movie is set in an era in the past, where women weren't routinely educated. To have been taught her letters, a girl would have had to be born into a high class family. Plus, back in 1989 when the original was released(feel old yet?) there was severe stigma and stereotype of mute people. As of writing this it hasn't changed much, but back then someone who couldn't speak was seen as being intellectually inept. Stupid. The word "dumb" once was specific to people who didn't / couldn't speak. That's why the Bible mentions "the dumb" and "the lame". So among the humans Ariel would've been seen as lesser just because she couldn't speak. Seen as less intelligent.

[@katiesmindpalace]

i would've thought they'd show the scene that led to ariel making the deal in the first place. sebastian told triton by mistake and then triton lost it and destroyed all the comfort things that his youngest daughter has. sure she fell hard for eric but she wanted to be a human way before that. part of your world happens three minutes before she goes up to the surface after triton's first meltdown. as someone with mental illness i have a very strong connection to things that i find comfort in and if my parents had taken it away i would be devastated. i'm not saying that triton is worse than ursula. ursula already had her sights on ariel because she was able to observe that ariel had dreams that weren't in line with tritons.

[@daniellemusella1594]

Watching this again, I thought of another couple of things about Ariel and Triton's relationship. The FIRST thing is related to how chill Triton seemed at first about the idea of his daughter, having a boyfriend. Ariel is a princess, which means whoever she might take as a spouse would have to be under much more scrutiny, than someone in a different social class. One would assume that Triton would have more of a vetting process about that. The SECOND thing is that, despite the massively traumatic argument she'd just had with him, Ariel was still concerned about the chance that she'd never see her father again. This moment proved how much she truly loved him. (2/19/2023)

[@Scalesthelizardwizard]

I get you mean if my parents did what Triton did I'd cut them out of my life

[@Sunboi_Paladin]

A lot of people have made some great points, so there's only one thing I really want to add, which is about Eric "not learning to communicate" with Ariel. I feel like this would be a lot more of an issue if Ariel's "timeframe" was something like 3 months instead of 3 days, because what is Eric realistically supposed to do in that time? Even if he crammed a bunch of sign language books during that time, Ariel herself (presumably) wouldn't know it either! And she *definitely* didn't want to spend her 3 precious days cooped up studying. So they muddled through, communicating as best they could, and maybe somewhere down the line they would have put in the effort as Ariel became more of a fixture in Eric's life, but then the finale happens and it doesn't matter anymore.

[@beethovensfidelio]

Ariel could understand English through head nodding, so there’s no reason why Eric couldn’t ask “yes or no” questions. Also, if Ariel could write her name on Ursula’s contract why couldn’t she write her name to Eric? After all, writing is one form of nonverbal communication.

[@draco1811]

@@beethovensfidelio That was my thinking exactly. Ariel was totally literate. She could have written her whole narrative out for Eric to read.

[@novaexx6587]

@@draco1811 she is literate,but im her own merpeople lamguage and writing. Maybe they don't use same letters as humans. The letters are only portrayed the eay they are so that audience can understand context, but in reality, they are probably entirely different from the ones Eric has been taught his whole life. Though I do get yoir point, it was the first thing I thought of as well and it always irritated me 😂

[@beethovensfidelio]

@@novaexx6587Except Ariel is able to understand Eric when he talks to her, and Ariel speaks English to Eric when she gets her voice back. There’s no language barrier between humans and mermaids.

[@SurinaSlackArt]

Ok so you guys were asking for a take on Ariel's infatuation with Eric and here's mine: I think that in this story, falling in love with Eric is just a byproduct of Ariel pursuing her greater desire, which is to be human. In "Part of Your World" Ariel doesn't mention romance at all; she desires acceptance in a world where she feels she would fit better than her current one. She trades her voice and her home bc it's the only way she can get legs and become part of that world. Eric is the catalyst for that. And tbh, who knows if that relationship would ever work out longterm (I didn't see the sequels lol), I'm sure it wouldn't statistically... but think of a 16 year old queer kid entering a queer scene for the first time after a radically different, more conservative upbringing. I think it would be just as likely that in pursuit of a better community, they'd attach themselves to people in that scene out of novelty, especially if they felt like they finally had a place to fit in. And those novel relationships, they might be long-lasting, they might not, but to me, the point isn't that they have to be. It's that this person sees their tribe, actively seeks it out for their own betterment, and rides the waves (heh) of that choice in pursuit of their truth. Idk, I just think that ppl give Ariel grief for being dumb and blindly changing herself for a boy, when she wanted to change anyway. Eric just kinda... happened.

[@Rikrobat]

Totally agree with your analysis~ For the sequel, though, Eric and Ariel are married with a daughter. It's basically the same story but in reverse, as Melody is being walled off in the castle and desires to be in the sea.

[@AskaxXxTissaxXx]

I agree , the sequel is awesome I suggest you watch it! Thank you for your take.

[@ma.2089]

Eric was also the only person in her life with interest in the things she liked! She’s basically into cultural anthropology and Eric was a guy her age that she could engage with in regards to those interests. And yeah, 100% the LGBTA themeing in the story was there either intentionally or unintentionally if we consider who composed the music.

[@kellydepaz525]

I really love that you linked Ariel’s story with queerness. There’s a beautiful video essay that links The Little Mermaid with being trans, and I’m just really glad that there are more people than I anti who have made the connection. m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/fGfNiYF7Yrl0jpY

[@teamobi3327]

I'd seen the anthropology aspect come up in other arguments, and watching these guys rip into her collection a bit as a hoarding trait doesn't really, for lack of a better phrase "hold water". Ariel obviously takes good care of her collection, and tries to keep it neat and out of the way. She's curating. The only reason she hides it is because Triton and presumably others don't like her having this fixation on humans and their culture. And then on top of that, yes even though getting with the first human she sees isn't the best choice, the want to understand each other's culture was deeper than looks, at least for Ariel. Who knows about Eric, but presumably his feelings were also influenced by her saving him.

[@Nom56_]

I feel like one thing people overlook with their love story is that Eric was focused on this idea of this sillouetted lady and the only clear thing he remembers is that she had a beautiful voice. Through out the days he spends with Ariel he learns to forget that ideal lady (not knowing that it was Ariel he was thinking of) and he grows to care and like Ariel for who she is outside of her ever so precious voice. Also were not really sure how much time has passed between the defeat of Ursula and their wedding.

[@krystlevanroekel5937]

I've always thought that a big part of the reason she wanted legs so badly was the way she was forbidden from the surface. If her dad had let her explore the surface more, maybe she wouldn't have been so fixated on becoming HUMAN. To her, legs began to represent freedom.

[@stephaniejean7429]

I love when Eric finds Ariel on the beach and she can't speak, he says, "You're really been through something haven't you? Don't worry, I'll get you help" or something like that. It's just so... good. For her to be SEEN.

[@PrincessMeggala0913]

HE IS THE BEST! ❤ Even though he’s sad she’s not “the voice” he still wants to help her.

[@coin0matic]

So evidently I didn't see the voiceless plot the same as everyone else. I saw it as kind of a cautionary tale of sorts. Choosing to give up your voice aka your ability to speak for yourself is a bad choice, and it put her in a position where she had to be rescued. I think we've forgotten in the last 20-30 years that we're *not* supposed to like and agree with every action of the hero/protagonist. Ariel is *far* from a bad person, and she did know that Eric was a selfless guy (guy risked his life for his dog, decent display of character XD), but she gets pressured into bad decisions because she's deadset on what she wants to the detriment of her own wellbeing. And to her credit, when presented with her actual hopes and dreams, one of her very first thoughts is how it'd affect her relationship with her family. If we don't look at her as someone to emulate, but as a bit of a fable, "know what you want but be aware of consequences", The Little Mermaid stands pretty tall as a good story with good lessons.

[@TiredSnowBerry]

In response to "is Ariel halfway through her life, how long do fish live," in the original Hans Christian Andersen story, it's said that merpeople actually live much longer than humans, around 300 years. Sooooo kind of depressing when you realize that by turning into a human, Ariel is going to die much sooner than the rest of her family.

[@EstherHulst-Artist]

But humans get a soul (afterlife) and ariel would get one too as a human mermaids life 300 years and thats it no more existing

[@loganjackson675]

Eric, her legs, etc were all about freedom. She didn’t have body dysmorphia in the sense that she just felt abnormal with fins and desired legs, but the fact is that she wanted to explore by leaving the ocean and legs are a requirement to do that. Same with Eric, it wasn’t simply that she thought he was hot. He represented someone who could show her what the land is like and offer her that freedom, since he was already living the life that she wanted. I think there’s also just a naivety that she has as a teen, that the “grass is greener on the other side,” so to speak. One line in her song is “Betcha on land, they understand. Bet they don’t reprimand their daughters.” Obviously she doesn’t know it but all of the problems she’s having under the sea are also problems that exist on land for humans, but she doesn’t have the wisdom or experience to understand that. The story is perfectly relatable to something that every teen experiences; the tension between their desire for more freedom and independence and the need for authority and the passing on of wisdom to help them figure out the right decisions and teach them where they might be wrong. The movie has a pretty good lesson that there is a middle ground there. You had Triton, who wasn’t willing to let go enough of her freedom in an attempt to keep her safe, and Ariel, who so wanted freedom that she didn’t exercise good judgement and it almost cost her big time. In reality, the thing that could’ve saved them a lot of trouble and been “right” is for them both to have communicated their priorities and found a way for her to grow as an individual but also accept guidance and use it to make prudent decisions

[@MaddSlasher]

As an adult I saw Ariel’s forced mutism to be less about “being quiet and pretty means everything will work out” and more “if your going to try to learn about a culture keep your ears open and opinions to yourself until you actually learn”. Honestly she’s kinda like a weeb. She is obsessed with humanity even though she only has trinket’s and Skuttle’s horrible misinformation to learn from. Almost as soon as she’s in the human world she finds everything she thought she knew was wrong. Many people who have their idealized view of a culture ruined, just abandon it and refuse to see reality. She still searches to learn as much as she can. During the tour of the kingdom Eric takes her on she is far more enthused by her surroundings than her company. It’s actually her friends that keep trying to force them together. In fact I believe if she had never seen Eric she still would have made a deal with Ursula to get legs. Let’s face it, if Triton found her collection he would still have destroyed it. She would still be distraught that her life’s work, her only connection to the world she craves is destroyed. Ursula would make some other rigged deal to give her legs and Ariel would probably take it. Teenagers are dumb to begin with and adding rage and despair makes them even dumber. Also you’re wrong about what we know of Eric. We see him help the boat crew, love on his dog, and do things servants normally do like drive a carriage. He listens to those around him even if he doesn’t always take their advice or believe their stories. He is polite to his servants from what we see through his interactions with Grimsby and Carlotta. He risks his life to save his dog when the boat sinks and later saves Ariel twice from Ursula. From all this we know he’s hard working, caring, open minded, brave, and humble for a prince. He’s also a hopeless romantic. Now should he and Ariel have gotten married seemingly the day after the beat Ursula? Obviously no, but the movie also doesn’t say how quickly after that the wedding was. I like to think it was at least months giving Ariel and Eric time to actually learn about each other, but it’s Disney.

[@nataliamarcosvidal958]

I like that take. It's very real, and very useful. Good call!

[@rivenrime]

Hear hear!

[@arminaskitty3177]

I’ve read a lot of good comments about taking into context WHEN exactly Ariel makes her decision to be human. It’s in between being harshly bullied/emotionally abused by her father and being emotionally manipulated by Ursula. Two things I’d love to see in the remake is more time for Ariel and Eric to get to know one another and maybe introducing Ariel to drawing so she can communicate at least a little and maybe have Eric try and teach her to write or something. I totally buy them being infatuated with each other. I’d love to see them build it into beginning to fall in love with each other by getting to know each other.

[@avecesar28]

Mmm i dont thing it work because in that case she doesnt need to visit ursula also it would be less impacfull when she lost her voice. Her hero arc would be less interesting

[@rivenrime]

@@avecesar28 No, it could still happen after her visit to Ursula. It could take longer than 3 days, maybe. It's hard to get to know someone well enough in three days, imo.

[@lahlybird895]

I'm curious about the language under the sea like I'm assuming it's similar to the one above surface because it works when she gets her voice back but what I'm wondering is she can write since she signed her name at the very least she could have done that unless the languages are different which I could totally see like if they develop their language based on things they found in shipwrecks or something it might be a mix of one or more languages or something different but how would she know that unless she actually tried it and I didn't work she never tries it is the thing

[@Mockingdragon]

In the musical, Eric teaches her to dance in a number called "One Step Closer" that's all about how they can communicate by dancing together even when she can't speak. The stage show adds a singing contest for Eric to try and find the voice that's haunting him, during which Ariel does the dance he taught her and Eric realizes he's fallen in love with her, mysterious singing woman be damned.

[@chelbanna]

So, my read on Ariel's voice and it being removed is that it takes away any potential lies or justifications that Ariel could use, and also stripped away everything everyone valued about her. Ursula *though* that removing Ariel's voice would make her useless/ undesirable, because the entire ocean only values Ariel for her beautiful voice. That's all Sebastian cared about at first, there was a whole ocean-wide concert arranged just for Ariel to sing to them. No one cared about Ariel's passions or interests, just her performing for them. Eric had also fallen in love with a voice he didn't know, so the idea was that the initial thing that sparked his infatuation wouldn't be available to Ariel. Instead, Ariel was her true self. No performance, no building up off of preconceived notions or interests from when Eric heard her sing. Instead their relationship began with Ariel being her raw, true, curious self. She was reckless and unknowing of the world around her, but delighted in every minute of it, and Eric fell in love with a woman who was reckless, curious, thrilled to experience the world around her, and sometimes lacking in social graces. He wanted to kiss and be with a woman who defied his initial infatuation and also successfully avoided any psychological issues that would come from the fact that Eric was still dealing with a near-death experience and the fixation on the voice of the person who saved his life. It's also important to remember that we don't actually know if Eric would have dropped Ariel if Ursula hadn't used magic on the stolen voice. Like, yes, Ursula was able to bewitch Eric by singing, but she had also put a glamour on herself to look entirely different, and ALSO had bewitched the voice itself to hypnotize Eric. It's quite possible that, without that magical intervention, Eric would have chosen Ariel, the fiery ecstatic woman he had begun to get to know, over another pretty face with a pretty voice. I think this movie did a great job of showing Ariel subverting expectations- under the sea she was supposed to behave a certain way, and was literally supposed to perform for other people; be a good girl for her father, be a good singer for Sebastian and the people, and maybe be a pretty face in the mercourt. And yet, by having those qualities removed from her, Ariel was able to make a connection for the third time in her life (the fish and the seagull being the first two) based off of who she was and not merely what people commodified her for.

[@IfyouBelleve]

I love this take completely

[@driftingdruid]

wow, very good reasoning

[@mckenzie.latham91]

Yeah exactly, Kiss the girl and the stuff before and up to prove that Eric was more then willing to kiss Ariel without needing to hear what she sounded like because he liked her In fact it was such a possibility that Ursula literally freaks out (she even calls Ariel a little tramp) and literally cheats to ensure she will win, by changing her appearance and hypnotizing Eric using Ariel’s stolen voice

[@EilleenCarrion]

I'm the original, mermaids lived for a thousand years, stuck in their kingdom where nothing ever changed, nothing ever happened. Humans were described as always being in a hurry because of their short lives and Ariel becomes fascinated with them. She feels excitement for the first time whe she visits the surface, she had never felt excitement in all of her life. When she gives up her voice and receives excruciating painful legs, yes, she wants the prince to fall in love with her BUT she also wants to just experience a human life as much as possible AND there is no time limit. She gets to see the world, explore the kingdom, and experience things beyond her wildest dreams. When the prince announces he will marry someone else, he announces it first to her because she had become his best friend. In the end she has to make a decision: kill the prince and return to being a mermaid or let the prince live and die of a frozen heart. Many people say that she doesn't kill him because he loves him, but I think she doesn't kill him because she has lived the amazing exciting life that she wanted and being alive for a thousand years in a world were nothing moves, excites you, or doesn't allow you to be free would feel the same as dying. Obviously, this is a KZbin comment so I am cutting a lot, but this is my main idea.

[@adde9506]

Changed my mind, I'm going to refute the claim that Ariel has body dysmorphia, as well. We're never given any indication that Ariel hates her body. We are given every indication that, like most teenagers, Ariel hates her life. She fills her time collecting sea trash... because she has nothing but time to collect sea trash. Humans are exotic and doing things and interesting. Her life is boring over here and she wants that interesting life over there. She's just like many teens that want to go move to France or England the moment they graduate high school. And she might very well have been like most of them and wanted nothing more than to come home after the newness wore off and the culture shock set in. But the entire movie takes place over 3 days; the newness never has the chance to wear off, but her father has let her make a permanent decision now, instead him allowing her to experience human for a while and see if she liked it (and Eric).

[@msk-qp6fn]

Which is why I always said Ariel is just being a stupid teenager. I said that as 7 year old, I said that as a teen and will continue to say so.

[@MasamiPhoenix]

So Ariel was obsessed with the human world long before Eric, but he became a symbol of what she wanted. I would love a version, where she realizes that she doesn't love Eric, but does love the human world.

[@quinnsinclair7028]

I played that as a d&d character.

[@ChasehaWing]

Yeah but here's something neat to consider... Erik is awesome! Erik is a thrill seeking, dog loving prince who's not too into the politics side of his responsibility , but he manages it. He's respectful, kind, listen's to his subjects from all walks of life, is funny and he's willing to throw down witha giant sea monster and impale them with a broken ship to protect people! So they actually work REALLY well together. But I agree with instead of having them totally in love at first sight, that it would be nice to see thier chemistry grow together. Ariel did love the human world LONG before she saw Eric. But I don't think infatuation at first sight is a bad thing. (Especially on his end when you remember she saved his life and brought his home.). But in a less fairytale centered story, it would be nice to see them grow to love each other more naturally long term. Or just to see their relationship developed and them becoming the best friends there ever was.

[@MasamiPhoenix]

@@ChasehaWing thats good too. Or what if she tries to seduce him (for a lack of a better term) and he's not really into it, but when she forgets about wooing him and focuses on "OMG! THE HUMAN WORLD" that's when he starts falling for her craziness.

[@ReverieNightengale]

I would actually love a version where she becomes friends with Eric without the romantic storyline.

[@Anna-B]

I’d love a version where they fall in love, but not in 3 days

[@octo448]

I would push back on the idea that Ariel is about body dysmorphia. To me, she doesn't hate her fin, she hates how her fin LIMITS her. She wants to be able to explore on land, meet new people, dance, run, and live a kind of life that her father and her sisters have distain for. She loves swimming, she loves her family and friends and the life she's built still- that's why it's not a simple decision for her to leave it to explore new things. She voices her concerns to Ursula about it. I think as a queer person, that was what drew me to The Little Mermaid as a child. This idea of defying the harsh standards set forth for you by your parents because they are closed minded, dismissive, or bigoted and finding new life and freedom out from under their control was very appealing. Triton even demonstrates this- he makes assumptions about ALL humans based on his limited (perhaps, specific) experience with some humans. Some humans are dangerous, therefore, all interest in humans shall be forbidden. Some humans are bad, so all humans must be. The parallel to the way some parents treat wanting to date someone who is culturally different from you is obvious, or perhaps someone who is the same gender as you and might 'pull' you into another world they don't like, or fear. I think even children who can empathize with the story understand that Ariel not being able to speak is not good. That's why if she can succeed, she'll get her voice back in the end. If it was supposed to be 'good' that she was voiceless, it wouldn't have been something she had the potential of winning back. I do think she finds a way to communicate with Eric, if not with words, then with her emotions and creativity. They do fall in love, not out of shallow things, but deeply. It's kinda like suggesting that someone who has trouble communicating is unlovable, to insist that building real love without her being able to talk is impossible. (To me) As an adult I don't love how the loss of voice could be misconstrued, however, and I think that reading of the story is valid. As a tale about migrating from one way of life and culture into another, I think the way you ultimately come down on the Little Mermaid is often heavily impacted by how much you have personally felt the need to do that in your life. If you still exist now, as an adult, in the same cultural sphere that you were born into, you might not see it the same way that I do.

[@watercolorsofmidnight6373]

I agree completely!! It's about society trying to silence people who are outside of the norms. Trying to silence people who challenge their status quo by thinking or acting different. Ariel is considered teenage and stupid, because society don't understand her real motives, is not a girl going for a boy, is a girl going to explore outside society's paradigmas. Can't blame for questioning what her father thinks, she sees humans more than predators, she sees what they invent and they do, and her idea is more complete more wholesome. And yes!! I also seeing it as a metaphor for showing who you really are inside and being true to yourself inspite people trying to manipulate your real motives and speak on your behalf.🌷🌷🌺🌺💗

[@stella4152]

That was beautifully written. Thank you ☺️

[@watercolorsofmidnight6373]

@@stella4152 I know she did an amazing job !! 🌺🌺🌷🌷💗☕

[@ArmstrongEA]

I agree! Id also like to add my interpretation as a traveler: Even before she sees Eric, she is in a phase of idealizing this other culture. (What would I give to live life out of these waters) It's not that she hates her fins or life under the sea. But it's set up for her as either one or the other, and she is already quite familiar with the water, making it feel boring compared to her (poorly informed) idea of life in land. And this girl likes adventure & new things.

[@spoons_only]

YES EXACTLY, i watched this episode w/ my roommate and she pointed out that she NEVER thought of body dysmorphia and the claim that Jono makes that "she hates her fins" is completely wrong because Part of Your World doesn't have a single mention or suggestion that Ariel hates her fins, only that she's interested about adventuring life on land, and the upset face she makes when the silhouette of her with fins appears is because she literally just had that huge fight with her father and thry need to pay attention to the dialogue because the second her smile drops is when Ursula is saying "but if he doesn't" referring to if Eric kisses Ariel before the 3 days are up. I feel Jono and Alan have this whole movie wrong, the whole time I hoped Alan was going to chime in considering he knows who Howard Ashman is and what he did for Disney and the stunning human being he was, and on some of the layered metaphors the movie has ALL OVER IT

[@summerholt112]

I actually fell in love with my now husband at 16, I was in an abusive childhood home, I left home at 16 and moved in with other family till 18. I was sooooo lucky that things didn’t turn out badly! We are still together growing as humans every day 10 almost 11 years later. But looking back on it with a more mature mindset I realize how dangerous it could have been. But I’m living proof that strict, overbearing, controlling and abusive parenting will do nothing but run your children away from you.

[@erinelizabeth1410]

15:30 fun fact, Eric was designed to be a reinvention of Disney princes. The first three were sort of like statues in comparison to the princesses. Also the voice of Eric was 16 during recording lol Jodie Benson says some great things about Ariel in a q&a video somewhere. Look that up if you’re interested. Because I don’t agree with this video but I can’t articulate it as well as she can. I have trouble articulating what I mean sometimes, and you’re more qualified than me, so you’ve got me there. But I’ll say this as quickly as I can. I don’t appreciate the argument that all Ariel did is sit there and look pretty, or that her greatest achievement was the sexual awakening of many (although that is fair, and I know that’s not exactly what you’re saying, but still). I don’t appreciate the argument that the first three princesses aren’t as strong as the others who came after. I think it’s a little hurtful to say that girls who are quiet or shy, or girls who stay in a situation with grace, or girls who leave a situation in desperate circumstances aren’t as strong as those who are considered warriors or fighters. When I was little, I was horrendously shy and insecure, but I looked at Ariel and I saw someone who didnt have a voice and couldn’t (literally) speak up, because I was so shy I couldn’t talk, and Eric loved her anyway, without her voice. I saw Cinderella, and saw myself in her resilience in a tough home life. And Aurora and Snow White too. I don’t think all female role models have to be a warrior to be valid. Because sometimes, it’s okay to ask for help. Or to know your limits, or to stand by and wait for an opportunity. Not everyone can wield a sword. And I think that’s okay. I do absolutely love when a female character can slay her own dragons. But I think it’s also okay to be gentle.

[@hannahlynn8028]

I agree with everything you said.

[@rozbessel]

i like the examples of all the the good things you saw in the first three princesses and it's awesome that it helped you feel seen as a shy kid, but i think there's a difference between being shy and being passive. in my opinion, it's kinda harmful to represent shyness as total passiveness in your own life when everything happens because someone else made it happen. for me it seems more like a disservice, because when you're shy (unless it has a great effect on your life, in which case it's a serious issue that requires professional help) you still have your full autonomy as a person. not everyone need to know how to wield a sword, that's true, and the capacity to be gentle is a great quality or sometimes even a skill, but i think these characters are awfully close to the category of damsel in distress, and that fact has nothing to do with their ability to be gentle. everything needs a balance, which means you don't have to choose between being completely passive in your own story or Strong™ without having to do everything on your own without any help

[@cyndrift]

i think the argument was more that they dont have character arcs, they just exist to further others', not that they are incapable of violence. the complaint was that the movies arent really about their journey at all emotionally, its about the journeys of the characters around them. i do think in general there has been somewhat of a cultural overcorrection where people think that making a disney princess an active or dynamic character in their own stories necessitates that they be a totally independent warrior girlboss, but i dont think thats necessarily a bad thing either. im glad you were able to relate to the early princesses though, and im certain you werent alone in that.

[@Sophie_Pea]

Especially cinderella tbh, it’s mentioned that she’s abused and it’s not like she didn’t try at all to stick up for herself. She tried to go to the ball with her mother’s old dress and then that was just destroyed by those very people who constantly abuse her. It was only after that that the fairy godmother came in. And honestly I think her ability to wake up and show a good face every day considering the situation she’s in is very strong in itself.P, it’s just a different kind of strong. There’s also the factor that she didn’t even go to the ball looking for the prince or looking to get saved, she didn’t even know it was him that she’d been dancing with, they just happened to meet that night because he sought her out. Their circumstances in the regards that they didn’t know each other that well is another thing, but I’d say that’s expanded upon really well in the live action, and it’s great to see them have such a nice friendship before he tells her he’s the prince.

[@erinelizabeth1410]

@@Sophie_Pea yes! I just watched the 2015 one yesterday. I had forgotten how they made it more clear that the glass slipper shrunk or got bigger because it was meant for Ella, and it was the fairy godmother’s magic guiding her towards her destiny and her way out. A lot of people forget that and argue about it but it’s very clear she didn’t tell him her name and that the magic only worked for her.

[@sharksfan232]

I feel like you are leaving out the most important point of context when it comes to Ariel taking Ursula's deal and you also left out Triton's worst moment as a father: him destroying her collection. When he found out she was infatuated with a human, he completely overreacted, refused to listen to her and when she still didn't submit to him, he states "you leave me no choice" and destroys her entire collection, which is the equivalent of a parent intruding on their child's "safe zone" and destroying it "for their own good." He deeply regrets this later, saying "What have I done?" when he finds out Ariel went missing, but the damage was done at that point. So when she takes Ursula's deal, it's not just "I'm giving up my family for a boy" it's "My father will never listen to me and never let me find my own happiness, so maybe I can find happiness here." Ursula came to her at her most vulnerable and pretty much gaslit her into taking the deal. I also feel like you are leaving out important context when it comes to her relationship with Eric: her saving his life and his immaturity when it comes to love. He remembers "a girl with a beautiful voice" saving him, and decides that she is "the one" and that he will find her and marry her. When he finds Ariel without her voice, he says "So you aren't the one," but sees she needs help and takes her in out of kindness. This is important: he does not see her in a romantic light at this point in time because he is hung up on "the girl with the beautiful voice." Ironically, Ursula taking her voice is the best thing that could have happened for their relationship because of this, because it means Eric has to see Ariel as Ariel and not as "the girl with the beautiful voice." He is charmed by her curiosity, her quirks, her eagerness to learn about his kingdom and finds that he likes spending time with her. However, he still does not see her romantically, as shown when Ariel tries to kiss him the first time and he turns away. It is only after he learns her name by trying to guess it (and Sebastian giving it to him) that he starts to let his guard down around her and see her in a more romantic light, although that is more an "in the moment" kind of thing. Later when he is still playing his flute to find "the girl with the beautiful voice," Grimsley tells him that maybe he should stop trying to pine for "the one" and try to see what is right in front of him. He then throws away the flute and decides to go to Ariel, showing a growth from his immature outlook about "knowing who is 'the one'" and deciding to try and make what he has with Ariel work. Unfortunately, Ursula interferes by using Ariel's voice and magic to ensnare Eric to stop that progression and the rest of the movie goes from there. So that is my long winded take on the movie. I'd like to know what you think of it.

[@moste5921]

100 % right

[@elanafelberg1733]

Perfect I love it!! I think that boiling down The Little Mermaid to oh body dysmorphia and no voice is truly missing out on a great Disney animated feature. This is when Disney was at its prime and I miss it and I am not ashamed to say it. Also my opinion but I think this "Therapist Reacts" episode is a little too much psychoanalysis for a Disney cartoon/movie, and people watch these to be excited and enchanted and entertained. Why can't we all just enjoy one of the great Disney animated classics and appreciate it for what it is!!

[@noemilibralato2052]

True!

[@soxngbfkdnfnx]

Yep!!

[@bumblingbeezy]

Gonna also add that Ariel was hoarding/collecting? human things before she met Eric, and she still shows that interest in the world when she has legs and gets to play a snarfblat, drive a carriage, and dance in the streets. She is boy crazy for Eric, but I think it's unfair to claim that the only reason she took Ursula's deal was to be with Eric, since she showed so much interest in the human world.

[@sabinakoehoorn6657]

About the no voice thing: I think, from my experience watching this as a kid... I had a very clear understanding of who was the vilain in stories like these and who were to be trusted or not (disney very much educates you about right and wrong). The fact that Ursula asked for her voice (being the vilain) does give you a gut feeling that there's something wrong about it. It never made me come to the conclusion that all women should just be pretty and keep their mouths shut... It's clearly the opinion of someone who's not a very trustworthy person (the 'bad guy') so I think most children are able to put this into perspective (intuitively). Also it doesn't exactly work for her to just be pretty and silent...? Eric was never fully convinced until she got her voice back. So maybe that proves a point too.

[@bpsara]

Plus, Eric didn’t start considering Ariel until after he got to know her better. Her getting her voice back at the end was more of a confirmation to me

[@toothless3835]

Same girl same.

[@TheBusyHoneyBee]

Yeah, but that makes Eric completly full of shit with that speach that "when I meet her I will know, It will hit me like lightning..." He was with her for two days and did not know... Does that mean the only part of her he loves is her Voice? When Ursula has Ariel's Voice he is in love with Ursula... When Ariel has her Voice he loves her, when she has no Voice she means nothing to him, she gets her Voice back he loves her again...

[@Tzarina8472]

Two things. Even though Ariel didn't have a literal voice, almost everything Eric takes her to go do is something she wanted to learn about anyway or she passionately takes charge of the situation. I mean, she's pointing at stuff she wants to see or do, and even shoves her collection for the day in Eric's lap while she takes the reigns out of his hands and charges their horse to jump a gorge (search 'Tour of the Kingdom'). She gave up her literal voice, but she is not without agency in the relationship. About Eric... In the scene where he throws the flute into the ocean just before meeting Ursula, where Ursula very clearly bewitches him with Ariel's voice, he had just given up on finding the woman with the magical voice so that he could be with Ariel instead. He gave up his unrealistic fantasy for the thing that was already within reach.

[@juliemassam933]

Yeah, and Ursula pretty much thought that without her voice, Ariel wouldn't be able to make it work, especially in just three days.

[@j_the_kid]

I think a much better argument for her collecting being actually hoarding is that she literally puts herself in mortal danger to go hunting for trinkets, even putting her friend Flounder in danger as well.

[@Vincent.E.M.Thorn.Author]

So, I want to dispute the comments on the messaging regarding Ariel's voice: When Eric first falls for Ariel, it's her voice he falls in love with (that or the fact that she saved his life from a burning ship at sea, but it's her voice he identifies). Later, when she's given up her voice and they meet again, he's disappointed to discover she's mute, because it means she "can't" be the girl who rescued him, because the girl who rescued him sang a beautiful song before disappearing. Still, he takes her home because she's a pretty girl who clearly needs help (she's wearing a sail, for pity's sake). Over the 2.5 days, it seemed clear to me that while he's warming to her, he's still holding out for the girl with the beautiful voice who rescued him. Still, her sweetness and adventurousness (and pressure from his servant/advisor whose name I can't remember right now), start to batter his defenses. In the scene just before Ursula hypnotizes him, he is weighing the dream of the mystery girl with the beautiful voice and the reality of the sweet, adventurous (and beautiful) girl who he can be certain actually exists. And then BOOM, what does Ursula use to hypnotize him? Ariel's voice. So, Ariel giving up her voice is definitely a mistake, however, I feel like you're mistaken about Ursula being right. Ursula says use "Your looks", "your pretty face" and "BO-DAY LAN-GUAGE! HA!" But while Ariel certainly can't hide the first two, she doesn't use her body in the way Ursula implies. Instead, she overcomes her handicap by letting her personality shine through. She makes Eric laugh through her eccentricities, she is positive and upbeat and enjoying the experience of being human, and she takes him on a wild joyride in a carriage. And yes, in the end, it's still literally a 3 day romance, but fairytale's gotta fairytale, and the point is that by the end of that third day, when Ariel gets her voice back and Eric is unhypnotized, she has already overcome both the physical handicap and Eric's expectations for the mystery rescue woman, standing out for WHO SHE IS, which she managed to do despite being literally silenced. BONUS ARGUMENT: Alan: "Is Eric the hottest Disney Prince? Because that's all he's got going for him." First: No, Aladdin, Flynn Rider/Eugene Fitzherbert, and Naveen all exist. Second: Eric's a genuinely nice guy (not a "Nice GuyTM") who within minutes of learning that magic exists rammed a (sunken) ship through the body of what's essentially Cthulu with boobs with NO HESITATION whatsoever. I think that last part deserves some props.

[@debymello4756]

"Ctulu with boobs" made my day

[@AngelaMGarcia]

I agree completely in the body language part.

[@chizzieshark]

Completely agree! Also, Eric is one of the only Disney princes with personality - the moment Ursula kidnaps Ariel, he jumps into the ocean after her. He also took in Ariel when she was mute and dressed in nothing but a sail. That says a lot about his character!

[@AstraeaAntiope]

@@chizzieshark He also plays the flute, seems to be an explorer/adventurer like Ariel (based on his sailing), and has a great relationship with his very cute dog. Not to mention his dope dance moves.

[@kedandunn]

For one thing, her "i want" song, the song that tells the audience what we need to know about this character and their wants, desires, goals, motivations, to set up what will drive their actions throughout the whole story, it's not about a boy or love. Simple as that. And the time she does spend on the surface isn't completely focused on him either, she's curious and exploring and excited. She isn't defined by her romance with him

[@converseleigh]

Everyone always overlooks the one truely empowering moment in an admittedly problematic movie. Ariel pursues a romantic relationship and takes the lead in trying to establish it. I am not surprised that 2 men do not get what a huge deal this is. But even today women are encouraged to be passive and let the man be the pursuer. So good on Ariel for having the agency to go after what she wants even if it is totally the wrong way. That is what growing up is about.

[@TheShredworthy]

Your post really did help me get a more thorough and nuanced interpretation of this story. Being able to view the story with the context that your point of view has lent it, I feel that you are indeed correct. I, as well as many others, surely welcome and appreciate many women and girls who have learned to take a lead role in establishing a relationship. When I was in high school, 2002-2006, MANY guys as well as myself lamented how it was always expected for us to make the first move, and sometimes, actually, most times, it was far too intimidating or the fear of rejection, too intense. Later, in my life I did learn that several girls I was ultimately too timid to ask, or too unsure whether I should go for a kiss at the date's end, that I didn't, only later to find out from the girls in question were just waiting on me to do it, even though they reciprocated the feelings fully. It really bugged me that for whatever reason, the culture had set these gendered roles and responsibilities, but girls being inspired or empowered to know that it is, in fact fine, respected even, for them to exercise their confidence in asserting their feelings. Thanks for your enlightening position!

[@goosepudding2287]

I think the musical deals with the communication issues wonderfully with 'One Step Closer'. I love the little mermaid, but it's been a long time since I've seen the movie so I can't remember if this was done in the movie. In the musical, Eric teaches Ariel to dance and explains to her that dance is a sort of communication and through the process of teaching her they develop a connection.

[@anastasiastauber5332]

I’m surprised the scene with Triton destroying Ariel’s collection didn’t make the cut. That was a powerful scene and Ariel becomes distraught. And immediately afterwards, Ursula swoops in and takes advantage of a traumatized 16 year girl with a chance to fulfill her biggest dream. Ursula is the one that made it about “love” not Ariel. Also, Ariel did nothing? She saved Eric’s life after the ship went down, she also saved his life when Eric was being targeted by the trident when Ursula had it. They worked together to bring her down. And while infatuation don’t always turn into love, Ariel and Eric’s did. In the sequel, they’ve been married for over 12 years and Ariel is the only Disney Princess to have a child. So something worked and we just saw 3 days of their relationship. Btw why is Eric attractive? He wants a relationship that real, instead being married off to the Princess of Glowerhaven. He also risked his life to save his dog, Max from the burning ship so he’s a dog person which is attractive to me. Watch him interact with the ship’s crew, he works with them and does the hard work and parties with them. He doesn’t put himself above them because he’s a prince. I understand peoples feelings on the movie but I feel like people forget the pivotal moments, and forget what it’s like to be 16. Looking forward to the new live action movie!

[@arielruby13]

yesss

[@KimberlyByrdV]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@josepharmstrong1788]

I love this series. However, I have a massive pet peeve when discussing older Disney p movies and this overview hits that hard. That pet peeve is assuming this movie (as well as the other princess movies before and shortly after) is all about falling in love with the first guy you meet and be a good submissive housewife for the rest of your life. This happens whenever someone tries to summarize the events of these movies and ONLY highlight the times when the couple is on screen or when the movie talks about romance. This viewpoint is often reinforced by sub-par merchandise and toy commercials, but not the movies themselves. This destroys context. Context is everything, and this viewpoint always removes context. This, quite frankly, narrow and regressive viewpoint robs the nuance and that goes into visual storytelling, as well as the agency that the characters actually have. Anything can be taken out of context to paint a narrative counter to what the original story aiming for. For instance, I follow the line 'don't underestimate the importance of body language' as a note to pay attention to physical ques to notice if someone is or isn't comfortable, as well as advise for inspiring actors and animators. It's not what Ursula intended, but I don't care. Most folks in the comments point out Part of THAT World was placed before Ariel even knows Eric exists to show she's not in it for a man, and I'm thankful that's gained traction over the past few years. Also, I'm glad there are more and more people who point out that Triton was the one who pushed Ariel to making a deal with Ursula. There is an attention to details I'd like to point out that I don't see often. The shark in the shipwreck; that thing tried to eat Ariel and Flounder WITHOUT the influence of magic or any external influence. This illustrates that BOTH worlds have dangers, and how often people will ignore the dangers they know almost to a dangerous degree. I look forward to the replies.

[@mortaeus7274]

I agree with everything you said but I never thought of the shark like that. Vert well spotted, that's a well thought out argument regarding the very real dangers of both worlds, and our tendencies to be overly comfortable with what is familiar.

[@Asharra12]

Thank you for expressing my pet peeve as well. I was hoping cinema therapy would do better but 💁‍♀️ apparently, Ursula is so persuasive that she convinces everyone, even the audience, that it's all about the man. I almost can't blame them, since she is hands down, the best character (I might be biased because my sister recently played her in a musical 😂 I've never seen anyone own a stage so well, nor heard such good feedback from the audience for one of her roles).

[@annielovesu1]

This we also have to rember that Disney gave the male love interests no story or development they are simply just there so we are seeing their store in a one demensenal way

[@Cerebrum123]

@@annielovesu1 Eric did get development though. We see him go from dismissing Ariel because of his obsession with her voice, to him later falling for her for who she was as a person. Once snapped out of the brainwashing we get to see him jump into action to save the woman he loved. That's not the most developed character ever, but he does have some unlike the prince from say Snow White.

[@Cerebrum123]

@@ever.4.n I couldn't agree more. It's like people look at older works, see a surface level of traditional values(not always even that much), and immediately decide it's bad/wrong/problematic.

[@trish9006]

I'll argue this point since a lot of people seem to give little mermaid crap for the trope of "love at first sight" and "giving up your whole world for one guy". Now, I'm not a huge Ariel fan, even though I love the ocean, but some of the stuff she talks about and sings about really resonate with a lot of people for how badly they want to be seen for who they are and how badly they want their freedom. I think it's easy to assume that the love story is as far as Ariels story goes. So I'm honestly disappointed you two didn't pick it apart further. She has wanted to explore the human world before she ever met Eric, so to me, while yes, she was also crushing on him, she was willing to give up her life, her fins, her voice to go explore the dream she always wanted, to explore land. To me, she is a LOT like Rapunzel, though Rapunzel warmed up to Flynn over time versus Ariels puppy love right out the gate, they both felt very sheltered from the world and wanted to go and explore it, at any cost. While her view of the world above is romanticized, she wants that world where she can stand up and be who she wants to be, where she can be valued for more than her voice, her looks, for being royalty, but for being just HER. Eric didn't know she was a princess, and sure she has her looks still but Eric is a prince, I'm sure he has easy access to plenty of people with good looks and still was charmed by her. To me that speaks more to her energy and personality that shines through even without her voice. I do think it's a flaw of the film to not show them communicating more but you do see this in non-verbal cues and body language as Eric talks to her even though she can't answer very specifically. Like he genuinely wants to know more about her. I think that you kind of forgot that she had this as her goal long before Eric and when you are the daughter of the King of the Seas, where else would you be able to go to get your freedom and have people like you for you instead of being a princess when the whole ocean knows who you are and your father can basically have watch over you anywhere you go UNLESS you leave the ocean. Part of growing up is being able to leave home, stand on your own two feet and know that people like you for you, not just the titles that come with you, or whose kid you are, or what you sound or look like but who you are on the inside. I think it's also a tale of how actions can speak louder than words, especially when you cannot speak, your actions literally are the thing that defines you. So yes, Ariel is still a teenager, and I think she plays the best and worst parts of being a teen very well, but I also think a lot of people just see this as a bratty teen or similar to how Anna falls in love asap in Frozen, etc but I do think it hits home for a lot of reasons that are also part of this film if you take the time to dig a little deeper.

[@allisonruff8725]

Also the point where Ursula is like “you have your looks, your pretty face-“ the point is that she gave Ariel an impossible task. She’s not genuinely trying to help her! She’s trying to manipulate her and deliberately work the parameters of her spell so that Ariel winds up being one of her little crusty worm things

[@sallyjrwjrw6766]

Beautifully stated

[@paolabistre3960]

My thoughts exactly 👌👌👌

[@alexandramusilova8148]

I came here to say exactly that. The one who made it all about Eric was actually Ursula. Up till then, Ariel wanted to go on land to be free and to meet Eric, sure, but he was really just the last drop. It's Ursula who started pushing him as the sole goal for Ariel.

[@swirl..9727]

THANKYOUUU!! My thoughts exactly when I watch this movie when I was a kid, clearly in the beginning we can see that she's been collecting treasures from humans and is really fascinated by them even though she doesn't know what it is used for, heck her grotto is filled with paintings and things we normally used such as a fork. Ariel's song is about her dream to be part of the human world- not her simping for Eric, heck he was just the cherry on top of it and even if she didn't met him due to the shipwreck it wouldn't change the fact she wants to be on land. Ik some of you might get annoyed of how I'm rubbing the topic again and again with this comment but unfortunately some people might still dismiss this topic :(

[@PittsburghSportsFan43]

I love going back to older movies, ones I haven't seen since I was little and getting all the jokes/innuendos that just pole vaulted over my head as a kid. Not just disney movies but movies from the 90s, and before that I was just too young to fully understand.

[@nataliedunn5239]

Although there are definitely some questionable elements to the film, I think there are also good things. The way I personally see it, is that there is a message in the whole losing the voice thing. Ariel hates not being heard by her dad, and she's right, he does not listen to her, but she then willingly gives up the chance to be heard vocally by Eric, which sounds strange. However it's Eric, not Triton, who finds a way to listen to her first. For example Eric hands her the reigns of the horse because she looks interested in it, Eric tries to learn her name even though she can't say it out loud, picking up easily on her disgust at one name in particular. Also her voice is actually a powerful element in the film, it's her voice that Eric looks for after being rescued, it's her voice that Ursula uses to cast a spell on him and it's Eric hearing her voice coming from Ariel that breaks that spell. Ariel being heard is a powerful force in the film and her finally being heard properly is in fact the most powerful force, leading to the happy ending (albeit with a lot of help from Eric and Scuttle who do the actual fighting.) I totally get where other people are coming from with this film, and can see what they mean, this is just my personal opinion of the symbolism.

[@arielruby13]

thank you!

[@sweetietoothie]

Yes!!! I love The Little Mermaid- so happy this is being done. People view it as Ariel wanting to be human for Eric, that’s true but she wanted to become a human before she knew him, he was just an added bonus 😂 I mean, disregarding the deep journey analysis, what made it messed up- I wanted to be a MERMAID SO BAD 😭

[@nerdydivanikki]

I feel like Cinderella is the same. It's about an abuse victim whose motivation in the movie was never about the prince. She wanted to go to the ball. She wanted a night- just one night outside her abusive life. She doesn't realize charming is the prince until the next day, and again, he's just a perk at that point. Edit: she also has enough agency to fight for what she wants by getting the mice to grab Bruno so she can get out of her room. Live action Cinderella just sat there like "welp... I'm screwed." Which begs the question in my mind, does Disney's OG Cinderella have more agency?

[@sweetietoothie]

@@nerdydivanikki lol we have to remind ourselves that these stories were made when we could’ve gotten married at 14 to a 70 year old man ☠️☠️

[@nerdydivanikki]

@@sweetietoothie lol, true. Products of their time indeed

[@franzessie9697]

Have you seen the second one? I loved that one for that exact reason 😍

[@peacefulhealer2838]

Same. I've been loving Little Mermaid since I was a kid. Then growing up I realized that I think I just loved her because she was a mermaid since I grew up in an island. And while I definitely prefer the more modern Disney stories, I love Ariel out of nostalgia.

[@tiffanycantrell9316]

I've always loved and identified with the Litte Mermaid as someone who grew up in an environment where I felt like I didn't belong (conservative, rural America), wanting to move somewhere where I felt like I could belong (literally any city), and had controlling parents who explicitly told me all cities were dangerous and that I would be unalived if I lived in one. Now, I am very fortunate to have been born in the 90s and able to make the choice to go to college in order to escape my situation. However, Ariel was alive in the 17th or 18th century and didn't have that option. She also wouldn't have had the option to make a career for herself to escape and live her life on her own terms either. Also, for what it's worth, I've also metaphorically traded my voice in order to gain access to the life I wanted. I didn't fight with my mom and stepdad, I bit my tongue, and compromised on what I wanted so I could get away. It took years to get my voice back, but I don't regret it for a second because I know I would've drowned in my environment if I had stayed. I don't view the Little Mermaid as a love story. I view it as the story of a desperate young woman taking a gamble on the only path forward presented to her. Because realistically, marriage or stay with her father (who just destroyed everything she held dear) were her only options. With marrying Eric, even though she didn't know him, she'd at least be in the environment she wanted to be in. I definitely wish she was older when making these decisions, and I wish she didn't have to make them following her dad acting pretty horribly towards her. However, viewing her infatuation with Eric as Ariel's sole motivation undermines everything we learn about her before she meets him. To the point, that I genuinely believe Ariel would've taken some version of Usula's deal even without Eric or another man being part of the equation.

[@heathermcfarland6317]

Voice theory- her losing her voice added an extra level of difficulty to this task of making him fall in love with her. Ursula knew that she might get him to like her or lust for her but it would be pretty hard for him to fall truly in love with her without being able to communicate. She was betting on that to win Ariel soul. And also giving Ursula a way to win him over immediately at the end of the movie. This was multifaceted. I think it’s also Hard for small children to understand the concept of losing your soul. So, having her give up her voice and her family for just the opportunity to fall in love shows her state of mind at the time. I also think that in love stories there’s always that one thing that makes you feel like OK because of this they’re not gonna fall in love and then somehow they overcoming that thing. I feel like the voice was that thing. They must truly be in love and be soulmates because they were able to fall in love when she couldn’t even talk to him. I could literally go on and on. Now I don’t know if any of these theories are why they were actually thinking in the creations movie but it is fun to theorize the possibilities.

[@MasumiSeike]

As a kid I always felt with Ariel and Hercules.. they just.. didn't felt at home while being home. They knew it was their place but they longed for what was feeling right to them. Now years older I understand why as a Transmasc still searching my place in this world.

[@bessieburnet9816]

Little advice: Don't let anyone's outdated stereotypes of women bring you down. Whatever you act like, what ever you enjoy, you are still as valid a woman as anyone else. There is no right way to be a woman. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I pray you find peace and learn to accept yourself and your womanhood. You go, girl!

[@MasumiSeike]

@@bessieburnet9816 I think you missunderstood something here, but that's okay 🥰

[@nathancruz9172]

Me too.

[@branthony8055]

@@bessieburnet9816 I think you misunderstood. They said transmasc, which means transmasculine.

[@geoisacat]

I wish you the best of luck on your journey, and that you can find that place that does feel right for you

[@Venslor]

I am so glad a section on queer coding and the Disney villains was included in this video. As a queer man, Ursela is one of my favorite characters in all of film and I am aware of queer coding and all the harmful things that it does, but that's because I'm tuned into it because I'm queer. How many of your viewers had never heard of Divine before today? Thank you for taking the time to include that section.

[@sorshae.elsbernd6132]

I hadn't ever heard the term Queer Coding or of Divine before today. Thanks for including it, guys.

[@theflickchick9850]

I hated this movie until Lindsey Ellis' video on the queer-coding in it and how Triton is technically the main character. Made it way more interesting.

[@takealilpill347]

In her defense, her "I want" song about having legs came before she ever laid eyes on the prince. This isn't just about him at all, he's the icing on the cake, what she really wants is the dream world on land. It was mostly ursula who made it about the man. This is not "giving up your voice for a man" it is "a 16 year old thinking her only option is to take the extreme route of giving up something of great value to get her ideal life"

[@takealilpill347]

though it does come out as "giving up your voice for a man" so it is definitely dodgy in that way

[@StonedTotheBones0000]

You know what's weird. As a trans person myself I was thinking about the whole body dysmorphia thing and wondering if they would bring up the difference between the two AND THEY DID. I am so glad that was clarified.

[@Sophie_Pea]

I’m honestly so glad they brought it up too because it’s something I’d never even really thought to pair with it before. It really changes the story/her character when you look at it through that lense as well tbh, it gives her sooo much more depth imo. Not necessarily “good” depth, but it’s definitely something that the remake could explore and build upon

[@darrelgreene7094]

I'd honestly argue Ariel is more trans-species than having body dysmorphia. She wants to become a human and the thought of that identity gives her euphoria. So much so, that she's willing to lose her family to achieve that identity (like we trans people have to prepare ourselves to do too when we transition). I feel like body dysmorphia would be trying to change the shape of her fin or wanting to remove it entirely, not necessarily wanting to change it for an identity sake. I remember being a child and wanting to become Prince Eric. I wanted to wear suits and father children. I dreamed of life as a man, and didn't know girls typically didn't do that. So maybe I liked The Little Mermaid because it told me I could become whatever identity I truly wanted.

[@actuallyimnotreallysureyet6360]

That’s why is kind of has a bad message to me. It’s justifying the resentment she had for her own body. Ursula even brings up previous merpeople she’s tricked. “That one longing to be thinner, that one wants to get the girl, and do I help them? Yes indeed.” All of these are issues where someone hates their natural body. Not just about getting in shape but literally hating perfectly fine parts you were born with.

[@p.voorhees3032]

I was thinking something similar while I watched this Cinema Therapy. Ariel's obsession with collecting human things, her singing about wanting to be where the people are and being part of that world. It did seem more like identity to me. I never saw the movie as her "hating her fin" and more that she wants to be a human and humans don't have fins. I would think it would be more body dysmorphia if she wanted legs instead of fins, but still wanted to live in the ocean and participate in Mer culture, but she wants to live on land and be part of human culture.

[@thewomenwiththepearlearrin4127]

ACTUALLY. Theres a program that is dedicated to supporting trans people and its called like the title mermaid program or something because so many trans people felt represented by this movie!!!

[@janaviselva2476]

I really hope you guys do Wreck it Ralph I love the theme the movie has about Ralph accepting that he's the bad guy. Learning to accept yourself and what you do even when no one else appreciates what you do. Ralph is not the only one learning a lesson but also the people around him who were constantly judging him because he's a "Bad Guy". This film deserves more appreciation.

[@geniegoodson5829]

Yes!

[@SuperGirl-uj5lq]

I love that movie! I really wish there was some recognition from the Nice Landers that Ralph is essential to the game 😭

[@Langley_Ackerman19]

Yes absolutely. Not to mention it's an homage to 80's 90's video games, my childhood!!! 😊

[@jimballard1186]

I was downright positive they did a Wreck-It Ralph episode, but I must be making that up.

[@Merlijn1994]

@@jimballard1186 They talked about the relationship between Felix and Sergeant Calhoun in the 'Disney relationships' episode, so you're probably thinking of that

[@lhorn7115]

I played Ariel in a play in high school, so my interpretation is now biased by that version. There are several differences but still very similar. In the Broadway version, Ariel’s mother was killed by humans (later we learn it was framed by Ursula…anyway) so Triton has always warned Ariel from the surface and that only sparked curiosity, which was further fueled because she found items from wreckages. I never saw it as body dysmorphia but rather curiosity, an escape from the world her father keeps her locked away in. Also in the Broadway version, we learn way more about Eric an Ariel. Eric’s keeps looking for the voice of the girl who saved him but slowly becomes friends and falls in love with Ariel. At the end there is a singing contest, and Ariel can’t sing but rather she completes a dance that Eric taught her. This was a very sweet moment because once they first meet, Eric teaches Ariel that communication is not just in words but in actions, and in dance. He gives her a voice. Then at the contest, Eric decides that he would rather forget about the mystery voice and be with Ariel. It’s a lot less superficial in the stage adaptation and like I said they characters are a lot deeper. I hope the new adaptation takes some lessons from the Broadway version.

[@beethovensfidelio]

I hope so too, but I doubt it, since they won’t use songs from the stage musical, but rather include new songs co-written by Lin-Manuel Miranda.

[@graceless000]

I love the Broadway version. I was also in The Little Mermaid in High school. I played Flotsam (one of Ursula’s eels) and it was really amazing.

[@finnisqueer]

My oldest friend suffered from body dysmorphia, and I didn't quite get it until I sat down with her for a day and just observed all of her little behaviours - She was extremely fixated in particular on her nose. She would spend hours scrolling through Instagram, looking at photos, zooming in on peoples noses and then posing herself to take similar photos, to compare them - And it made her so depressed.. She'd ask me to take photos of her nose, ask me how I thought it looked, and was never happy.. this drove her to get a nose job. Afterwards though, the negative feelings eventually came back. Nowadays, she has a great therapist to help her manage. I wish I could have shown her how there's nothing wrong with her nose at all, but it doesn't work that way - It would fall on deaf ears. Thankfully now, she's a lot more comfortable and seemingly happy with herself. :)

[@twichmcvey6065]

I feel she also is drawn to what was hidden from her and withheld from her. She feels alone in her own family and wants to fill that feeling inside that feels empty. A hole left by the death a mother and the distant father who leans away from her. She looks like her mom and sounds like her too. His pain and anger and fear from her death due to a human ship broke him and he took it out on EVERYONE but mostly on her as very young child. He wants to protect her sure but he also wants to control her like so many adults do

[@Snics-yv1fw]

I will say, Eric is someone I would want to be with based on the end part of the movie. The girl I like is the girl I’ve been spending my time with? Perfect! She’s half fish? Weird but ok. I almost married a sea witch and she’s now going after my girlfriend? Alright, time to fight. Said sea witch is big now? I’m gonna run her threw. This is all way above my level? Doesn’t matter, I’m not leaving Ariel alone. Say what you want about the rest of the movie, but Eric is loyal and really does care about Ariel.

[@punic4045]

he also used a whole ass ship as a spear, which is amazingly badass

[@Cerebrum123]

They also both saved each other's lives twice.

[@monedameow]

And... 11 years older than her XD

[@Cerebrum123]

@@monedameow Um, where are you getting that? The official novel released that is based on the movie(not the original book), he had just turned 18, not 27.

[@monedameow]

@@Cerebrum123 the official Disney princesses site XD

[@Haze-xr9rc]

1) As a trans person, I was damn near sobbing from how respectfully both of you brought up the queer coding and ensuring that we understood that our identity is inherently not a disorder, you guys are awesome internet dads 2) Alan's "B O D Y L A N G U A G E , H A H" will haunt me forever

[@laner.845]

Hell YES! ..... to both points

[@MrGBH]

I've had a bad day today, and their brief, but respectful and heartfelt, discussion helped me a lot

[@proudatheist2042]

It's odd to me that you brought up queer coding and being trans in the same sentence. Being gay or lesbian and being trans are two totally different things. In The Madness of Crowds, Douglas Murray says that many minors who thought they were trans and seeking treatment were actually gay. Dr. Jordan Peterson recently stated that this happened to many young people at the Tavistock clinic. As you learn who you are, I hope you don't make serious, biologically based choices like cross sex hormones, puberty blockers, or surgeries because you, or others, think you are "trans." I hope you find healthy, well balanced social support in your life.

[@UltimateKyuubiFox]

@Proud Atheist It’s called LGBT for a reason, which is what queerness refers to. Also, your random fear-mongering on this post is soundly unwelcome.

[@MrGBH]

@@proudatheist2042 both the people you mentioned are utter trash, and you should feel shame for following them

[@thecratfywonderworld6910]

A thing about hoarding is that all the devices we have might be giving hoarding a new "playing field". I'd say keeping a lot of unnecessary things impulsively, knowing you'd never look at them again and they would "crowd" your device, but still having the urge to save them is still hoarding - I've heard of a case when a person tries keeps pictures of certain things (ex:cute illustrations or something) that are of no use to them and they do realise that this behavior is not right, but despite their efforts to stop, they just can't and the desperation and distressbut it causes leave no obvious trace in their home as it all happens digitally. I'd like to hear your opinion about this, is this a manifestation of hoarding or something else and how do you think one could cope with it?

[@mor3gan285]

Closing tabs

[@lenascholz]

[Disclaimer: Not a psychiatrist, therapist or medical professional of any kind; not at all qualified beyond 'I read stuff on the internet a lot'] I think what this would really come down to is what impact that kind of "digital hoarding" would have on the persons life. Usually the diagnosis of any mental issue requires the patient to suffer from the behavior they have. If that person is leading a functioning, reasonably happy life and doesn't get impacted beyond a few gigabytes of disk space being wasted then I don't think there really is an issue. If it actually causes distress (for example if obsessively searching for that kind of content becomes more important than work or social gatherings) then the question is different and it would probably be similar to any non-substance addiction people can have. But part of me wonders if the distress here might be stemming more from the outside pressure to stop saving illustrations or whatever rather than from the actual behavior being an issue. There's plenty of people out there with more books than they will ever read and more games saved than they will ever play that are perfectly fine. Just accumulating a few superfluous things in your life isn't an issue in and of itself, it becomes one once these things cause suffering.

[@aestheticgcddess]

Unfortunately this is me so definitely going to ask my therapist 😂😓

[@nessidoe8080]

@@mor3gan285 oh no, me 2. Currently open:51 tabs. Some very old. Could be worse though... *Cringe*

[@VioletEmerald]

This is a fascinating take... Never thought of this possibility before!

[@Chlo-ee]

The ultimate lesson: never sign a contract when you’re 16.

[@doraerdosi6568]

I love how most of us summarized and vocalized every piece of my thoughts on the little mermaid. It really comes to this simple thing, people judge this movie based on the surface or what they remember of it while many of us who rewatched it several times as a child and know it by heart are utterly disappointed in the majority of the people. This movie is full of subtle and obvious hints that Ariel and Eric's relationship is truly born from genuine interest, spending time together and learning about each other. I especially loved Eric, a gentle, kind soul, who found a person, helped her, and the reason why he fell in love with mermaid Ariel is because she saved him. Maybe he's naive but he wanted to marry for love and he was willing to wait for the right person, he tried to find the woman with the beautiful voice, but in the end, chose mute Ariel for her charming personality. One more thing I want to confess, I always roll my eyes whenever Eric is said to be a one-dimensional character. Like you only have a personality if you throw a snarky comment every five minutes or shout out every thought. Ursula had one thing right DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE IMPORTANCE OF BODY LANGUAGE. Ariel and Eric did not. They found common ground through observing each other. I am also calling out Frozen. Just because a movie shouts in your face the obvious, it does not mean it's superior.

[@bpsara]

I agree! It’s kind of ironic to me how people complain or critique about a story being superficial when in reality they only went through a single layer of what the story actually is. To add to the simple ≠ one-dimensional argument: just because Eric is more agreeable, nice, or doesn’t have a lot of grey morality doesn’t automatically make him one dimensional. The fact is that he has inner conflict (idealistic love at first sight vs grounded developing love), shows growth, has more than one personality trait, and has driving action/motivation in the story, makes him a complete character in my book. He’s not an overly complicated one, but he doesn’t need to be one, he’s what this specific story call for.

[@doraerdosi6568]

@@bpsara Right? Kind of sad.

[@victoriagr8938]

it reminds me on the essay "stop blaming the victim" about cinderella fro "the take". Arielle and Frozen are possibly also mentioned in the same way ;) I think frozen is just disney shouting "LOOK WE ARE FEMINIST NOW" and proceeding enforcing gender binaries.

[@RoseBaggins]

Agree!!

[@doraerdosi6568]

@@victoriagr8938 I absolutely agree about frozen and I also have a faint memory of that essay.

[@the_UF365]

There's this saying from John Green in Crash Course World History that perfectly encapsulates the Dunning Creuger Affect: "Oh me from the past, you'll find as you grow up that it is best not to act like you are an expert until you actually are an expert on a subject."

[@ApequH]

Except if you are a Mongol?

[@solarvoid777]

Criticisms of this movie that boil down to "she's 16 and she's making stupid decisions over a boy she doesn't even know" always frustrated me. It often feels like people disregard that she wanted to be a human before she even saw Eric. It reminds me of having my own goals dismissed as a teen because I was young and stupid and a girl. Yes, she does make bad decisions, as any teen, but boiling it down to happening because of some boy feels dismissive. Eric is the catalyst, not the cause.

[@Basilissa_Sunight]

I think the main point of that "she's 16 and she's making stupid decisions over a boy she doesn't even know" is actually unsaid: she gets away with it. She takes the most ruthless, dangerous, illegal way to achieve what she wants, the guy and the seagull fix the mess and everyone lives happily ever after. It's a Disney movie, so ofc there is a happy ending but I still hope that, ad the internetDads said, I hope for more nuances in the live action (like "yeah, I fell in love with the pretty prince, got my legs for him but... oh no! He's just a pretty face! Well, I still like my legs so lets fix this sea witch mess and just try to talk with my dad about me having legs now that I have proved that I can take care of myself")

[@solarvoid777]

@@Basilissa_Sunight see, I wouldn't have as much frustration if that was the spoken criticism of the movie! That's a totally valid and understandable thing to criticize about the story, but the internetdads are the only people I've heard who take the criticism in that direction, which is my issue. People stop short of asking for nuance and just focus on trashing a teen girl who's brain isn't even fully developed yet.

[@Basilissa_Sunight]

I may be too optimistic as in hoping that most people actually think that but do not elaborate because they do not deem a "child movie" worth of that much though 😅. But yes, as Red has recently shown, many "grownups" have A LOT of problems with teen rapresentation

[@ma.2089]

@@Basilissa_Sunight “illegal” way. Lol that’s really funny. Why do people need to listen to the government all the time? They have no agency or control over their own body. This reminds me of the abortion laws overturned in the US, where women have no agency over their own body and must be forced to bear children by the government if they commit the sin of becoming pregnant. Their body no longer belongs to them, and the only way to take it back is by going to illegal places to get an illegal abortion. Ariel got an illegal body modification not approved by the government. She’s not allowed any agency whatsoever, by the government or her dad. She’s not allowed to do or like things. Forget exploring one’s interests in safety, better force the kids into the deep end cuz dad fails as a parent. As for Eric, why deny Ariel the only person in her life with whom she could share her interests? Flounder is too afraid, and even tho he’s a wonderful friend, she still deserves someone who knows about the human world. The story serves as a cautionary tale to both Ariel and Triton. And while Ariel made a huge mistake and risked her own safety, should the dad or her new friend/potential boyfriend leave her to die? Should we punish our kids for trying to take control of their own lives and seek happiness? Teen girls are blamed for what bad ppl to do them, let’s be real here.

[@Basilissa_Sunight]

@@ma.2089 Wait, wait, calm down, I meant "illegal" referring to Ursula. Triton was sad for lashing out on her, we don't know if he would have apologized to her if she hadn't run away, we couldn't have known if her "zing" with Eric was actual love or just a fling! I know, what's happening in the US sucks and you should fight to get your rights back BUT just saying "government" (as an abstract entity) is evil and we should just ignore them, run away and do as we please is a receipt for chaos!