Who's the Meanest? Therapists React to MEAN GIRLS with guest Dr. Stephanie Sarkis

[@sunshinedaydream22]

I love that there isn't a clear antagonist in this movie. How often in real life is one person wholly 'good' and another person is wholly 'bad'? People are more complicated than that.

[@elizabethgatchell4546]

There is a clear antagonist(Regina George) but there is no clear “bad guy” in this movie

[@Aisha_Luv]

@@elizabethgatchell4546 but half-way through the antagonist kid of becomes Cady...

[@Trigger__Happy]

Pretty sure IRL when a cop is arresting a child predator for soliciting minors, there is a very clear wholly ‘good’ and a very clear wholly ‘bad’

[@llunathelynx]

@@Trigger__Happy the op said how often not never, learn to read.

[@artifach]

@@Aisha_Luv only because Janis kind of manipulated her into it

[@needyverse]

There’s a reason Regina and Janis were best friends until they suddenly weren’t, and you see it throughout the power play of the movie. The two queens controlling the pieces in some way or another.

[@reikun86]

Good point.

[@PaulGuy]

They were friends until they had a power struggle. A tale as old as time.

[@charchar4276]

@@PaulGuy song as old as wine🎶🎶🎶🎶 beauty and the beast 🎵🎵🎵🎵🎶🎵🎵🎵🎶🎶🎶🎵

[@brookeevans0078]

@@charchar4276 i thought it was rhyme omg 😱

[@user-ib1is7ny7r]

i wish we could’ve seen how they were together. i bet they sat down to tear everyone apart 🤣

[@CocktailsConsoles]

"Janice acting like a mean girl while calling Cady a mean girl" I appreciate that they called this out. The "I'm bad but your worse" defense should never be a get-out-of-jail-free card for someone's actions. Victims can have victims too.

[@Emma-Maze]

That was very well said! And I love your name :o

[@LethalByChoice]

Absolutely, Janice was massively projecting and was the one who pulled all the strings and used Cady as a double agent to begin with.

[@allydef]

Fr because everyone acts as if Janis didn’t do anything wrong. She absolutely had a huge part in turning Cady into a mean girl. That’s not to say Regina is innocent because she’s clearly a terrible person, but Janis is a prime example of how victims can have victims of their own.

[@CocktailsConsoles]

@@allydef True! In some respects, Janis and Regina are two sides of the same coin, only one feels justified in destroying the other because she was wounded first

[@QuikVidGuy]

Hurt People hurt people

[@pmcatnip]

When Janis is yelling at Cady from the car and calling her out for being a mean girl, that’s the only time she pronounces Cady’s name correctly. It adds that much more emphasis that Janis isn’t playing around anymore.

[@t.n.7771]

Janis is a POS

[@Zubstep1315]

She’s also an a hole lol Damian giving comedic relief was necessary or else Janis’s character wouldn’t have been likable at all

[@summerrose8110]

@@Zubstep1315 I disagree, she's not a jerk to him.

[@Silver-kw7eq]

@@summerrose8110 she literally gave him a specific insult (too gay to function) and then basically decided she owns the rights to that and possessing it and not allowing anyone else to say it 😂

[@Panchouliii]

@@Silver-kw7eq The way I saw that is like an inside joke between friends. Like how we can call each other insults like sluts but get pissed at others when they call our friends that way. That's why she was like "it's only okay when I say it" when they saw it in the burn book, even Damian got angry when it was used outside of the friend group.

[@Zuyuri]

I never would have considered the “Janis is an antagonist” angle until recently, thus making her a parallel to Regina. It makes this seemingly silly film super complex.

[@phoeberaymond8781]

i had a friend in high school who was a lot like janis, and she was pretty mean :\

[@charmedlife1990]

It always made sense to me. Janis' reasoning was always to get back at Regina. They were friends as kids, Regina had a "glow up" moment and left Janis behind. Instead of dealing with it and moving on she let it fester until Caty came along. She was the perfect pawn to "pay" Regina back for abandoning the friendship. I just don't think Janis counted on it all going to Caty's head.

[@bee-zz6bf]

@@charmedlife1990 i know things are never black and white but honestly i would count janis as being MEANER than regina because shes so subtle about everything she does, instead of outright being horrible she hides it till she gets what she wants. unless of course.. it backfires, then she rushes RIGHT to the victim spot

[@ma.2089]

I mean she even says it. I don’t think ppl notice it enough, but Janis says that both her and Regina are mean girls, but at least they know they are. She spends a good chunk of the movie, alongside Damien, being very candid about their issues with the Plastics. The plastics are mean girls cuz they’re mean to everyone. Janis is mean too, trying to convince Cady to spill info on the plastics as a double agent, before Cady is hurt by Janis.

[@susanrobertson984]

This means that Regina took an interest in Cary only because Janis did first. Hmmmm….

[@cameronbennett8151]

One thing I just realized about Mean Girls is that Regina uses manipulation to make people think she is better than them, but Janice uses manipulation so that they think she's "one of them." Throughout the movie, we see Regina tearing people down by making them feel "less than." When Janice confesses everything in the trust fall scene, she knows that Regina has said and done things to everyone there to make them feel like crap, so she knows that they'll all rejoice by confessing the lengths she's gone to to bring Regina down. She makes them feel like she's just like them, but in fact, her and Regina are a lot alike; they're just using their manipulation skills differently.

[@ravenartistofficial]

It’s true

[@niaputri2094]

Well then in that case, Janis' manipulation skill is more dangerous than Regina

[@harls3337]

Janice kind of admits it though that’s the difference between her and Regina. Janice is more dangerous cause she knows she’s a bad person. Regina doesn’t necessarily know she’s a bad person manipulation is like eating and breathing to her it’s like her defense mechanism. Janice on the other hand enjoys manipulation and destroying people don’t get me wrong Regina seems like she enjoys it sometimes but not like Janice. Janice enjoys watching people’s pain listen to how she talks to cady after the party scene at cadys house. She enjoyed bringing cady down to her level, at some points I thought I saw a smile come across her face. That’s another good example of Janice being a bad person, she hides behind what’s called a “mask” she tries to blend in with other people by being like “y’all I hate Regina too!” But in reality it makes her stick out like a sore thumb. Both in my opinion have personality disorders, Janice most likely has ASPD (anti social personality disorder) and Regina most likely has NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) FYI I’m not diagnosing I was raised around someone with ASPD and I can see the traits in other people is all I’m saying.

[@speaktruth9989]

@@harls3337 agreed

[@sandymakesplans]

pick your poison

[@trinaq]

Mean Girls holds up so well, and really understands how teenagers operate. Regina is never outright mean at first, just subtly passive aggressive and manipulative. This is best shown when she compliments Cady, and then tries to make her question herself by saying "So you agree? You think you're really pretty?"

[@francissanchez5640]

true

[@tariqthomas9090]

Yeah, I love that line. Mean Girls really captures the 2000s high school aesthetic and allows characters to embody the funniest aspects of adolescence. I don’t think an iconic character like Regina George could exist at any other time.

[@lesbiangoddess290]

That line was so subtle and powerful.

[@summerrose8110]

Regina was looking for a weakness in Cady when she first met her.

[@friendlyneigborhoodbean]

@@tariqthomas9090 the sad thing is high schools still have a lot of the same negative things

[@BubblesBear17]

The fact that Janis is just as mean as Regina isn’t weird to me. She admitted herself that she is in that scene where she fights with Cady. Regina and Janis were friends first. So they did likely have a lot in common, including their toxic and manipulative behavior as you can see in the movie. Could you imagine what they would’ve been capable of if they were still friends 😳

[@raindownonme21]

Pretty sure we would have a different principal and no Ms Norberry if they never had their falling out :o

[@growingupwithdisney]

Janis didn’t really admit it in that scene cuz she doesn’t actually hold herself accountable for the mean girl she truly is. She never grew in the movie cuz she still saw herself as the victim, and all her bad traits she feels is just a part of her personality

[@summerrose8110]

@@growingupwithdisney YOU LITERALLY JUST WATCHED THE SCENE WHERE SHE ADMITTED IT AND YOU'RE CLAIMING SHE DIDN'T WHEN YOU WITNESSED IT?!🤦‍♀️

[@growingupwithdisney]

@@summerrose8110 she admitted it in an attempt to shut Cady up, in any other scenario, Janis would act like she was the victim and not the mean girl

[@Ilikefrogs..]

Political dictators of their own women only country 🤣

[@sorayatorchic]

Wow. “Homeschooled. That’s interesting” I never realized just how predatory she looked in that moment. I thought she was just being fake. Turns out she wasn’t. She was being a manipulative crazy. Then she turned right around and offered praise and compliments like love bombing.

[@tbow7785]

Ugh! I always hated that scene! If she (Regina) had said to me “I know what home school is I’m not retarded!.. So you’ve never been to a real school?” Me: Umm didn’t you just say you knew what home school was? And it’s customary to be polite and say thank you when someone compliments you Regina! I mean really! Cady wasn’t from Mars! I just think that scene could’ve been written better.

[@sorayatorchic]

@@tbow7785 kids really are like that though. I remember the stares when they found out I was from a single parent family 🙄. If you really think about the power dynamics of that situation, she was hardcore flipping the tables on Cady. Treating someone like that out the gate immediately gives you and your colleagues a sense of superiority and alienates the victim. I mean the sucky part is that it was VERY well written, and even had Cady been socially capable of defending herself, she would have been manipulated, gaslit, and/or ostracized. Power dynamics do NOT follow logic. All that matters is that the people around play the game, and with Regina in charge, they most certainly will.

[@tbow7785]

Sarana Tari Well in my opinion it wasn’t written “VERY” Well! It was an overplay of Regina’s caricature & the hierarchy of her social status in the group dynamic. Maybe kids were like that at your school, not in mine. I grew up in a major city and though there were popular pretty girls there was also popular smart girls, popular funny girls, and so forth.. My friends & I had no issues calling out stupidity or pulling a chic down from her high horse if need be! And oddly enough my daughter got looks & stares because she came from a two parent family?! Imagine how sad that is?!

[@sorayatorchic]

@@tbow7785 yeah I grew up in a small town. People LIVED by stereotypes. Unfortunately a lot of the popular kids were kids with money and some degree of social status. I agree they don’t have to be like that, but it does happen in some places. Unfortunately once a power dynamic like that starts, it’s difficult to root out

[@yuuri9064]

And she keeps saying "shut up" as an interjection like "wow", but her version specifically claims power over the other person

[@melinaaguirre8040]

I've always understood that Janis was the original leader of The Plastics. I mean, the jingle bell dance was coreograhped by her and the truth is, the leader picks the coreography. That's like... a rule. There are a lot of hints that tell you that Janis was on top around middle school but then gets overthrown by Regina. So yeah, Janis could be an even meaner girl, she's just lost her position when Cady shows up. Love you, guys! I wasn't expecting a react video of this movie, it made my day :)

[@JH-ti3lr]

Very interesting! I never caught that but it sounds pretty spot on.

[@spectre9340]

My sister theorized that Janis probably looked very similarly to Regina so when Regina spread that rumor about her being a lesbian, she drastically changed her appearance in order to look nothing like Regina (and thereby, disassociating herself from her ex-friend)

[@Crazael]

That makes sense. New school, new opportunities.

[@Hypothisos]

@@spectre9340 janis is Lebanese, so regina spread the rumour she's lesbian because she either misheard Lebanese - lesbian or she knew the difference but knew others wouldn't.

[@MovableNu]

Oh dang! That makes perfect sense! 💚🖤💚

[@camillaclay5422]

My favorite thing about this movie is that even though it’s about high school and it has the basic characters like the popular girls and the nerds and the jocks, every character actually has a real personality. In most movies with the stereotypes of the popular girls and the nerds, everyone is just a one demential plank of wood with no emotional depth. I think that’s why this movie was such a hit.

[@hannahchapman3656]

I completely agree. It's so interesting to have a film show the three main characters being round. They all have nuance and character arcs.

[@USSAnimeNCC-]

@@hannahchapman3656 I agreed human being are complex not simple

[@funnytime1111]

I mean the mathlete team lead thinks he’s a ladies man who love to rap 😂

[@nathpi8410]

I think it is because the movie made all the "stereotypes" mainstream, so the movies that came after tried to replicate it without understanding the complexity in the characters.

[@camillaclay5422]

@@nathpi8410 yes, I agree

[@cuteladybug8622]

Something they didn't address when discussing what's at the root of the mean girl dynamic is that girls are socialized to be nice and it's not "nice" to have a physical fight, like guys often do. So feelings of jealousy, resentment etc that come between girls and women come out in more subtle ways. Instead of having a face-to-face discussion about what's going on; girls ostracize each other without explanation, get other people to hate the girl because of the issue that isn't being directly addressed between them.

[@yahyaL0V3]

Well said

[@wormgif]

thats something addressed in the mean girl’s musical which is neat. it’s during janice’s song “i’d rather be me” where she says “we’re supposed to all be ladies … is that really fair? boys get to fight we have to share.”

[@2degucitas]

So glad high school was 44 years ago.

[@drewm6119]

Yes! It's called relational aggression and there's been loads of studies exploring it between women. It's sad af but affirming to know it's a legit thing

[@LordofFullmetal]

This is a huge factor that I think a lot of people miss. Women are consistently socialised not to kick up a fuss. We're told not to rock the boat, not to stand up for ourselves. That's why you see this behaviour where girls often go about more manipulative and less direct ways of problem solving. They're told from birth that they CANNOT solve problems directly, because "that's not how a young lady acts". It's not just men who are told they can't act on their emotions - women are pretty directly told they are weaker for having them. It's very likely that the Plastics themselves are victims of this conditioning. They're not evil, they're just children trying to stay afloat and find their places in a world that doesn't really accept them - in whatever way they socially can. They became manipulators because that's how they survive.

[@whatever7117]

i'm a bit disapointed they did not talk about the scene where Regina writes herself in the burn book and then presents herself as a victim, i would love to hear their take on that

[@bex9158]

gabbie hanna be like

[@chloereed2434]

Definite npd

[@TwinsBigLikeTia]

@@bex9158 Any KZbinr or beauty guru be like*

[@preguicadetu]

@@chloereed2434 what is npd ?

[@whatever7117]

@@preguicadetu narcissist personality disorder

[@Paolamusic]

The name change is also meant to sound like a “golfer’s assistant” or a caddie, a person who has to follow others around. It’s incredibly clever!

[@emaankohari6794]

wow! never knew about that! thanks for letting us know ;)

[@sophiaredwood5825]

OH MY GOODNESS THIS IS HUGE I NEVER REALIZED Thank you so much for this!!!

[@marinamsie1885]

reminded me of catty as in cattiness

[@grayonthewater]

I don’t think it was meant to sound that way

[@hansserafim8336]

👍👍👍👍👍👍.

[@varivivid8031]

Victims are at risk of becoming like their aggressors because they spend too much time studying what hurt them.

[@f_in_sknees6677]

Omg that is a great quote

[@artemis754]

this is true, victims (especially long term ones and from young ages) pick up similar behaviors as their abusers/aggressors. this is very common. so yes, victims can definitely become aggressors as well if they don't find a healthy way to deal with the trauma

[@ahstiasummers5583]

Sometimes due to unresolved trauma, sometimes due to falling back on the path of least resistance and mimicking themselves based on what they know

[@Ana-rb7ws]

This comment right here! As the saying, if you stare too long into the abyss, the abyss stares back at you.

[@artemis754]

@@ahstiasummers5583 exactly!

[@slightlydistressedslug6627]

When I saw this film as a kid, I assumed Janice and Regina were _both_ portrayed as mean? I mean Janice literally says “At least me and Regina know we’re mean”. Did not everyone see it that way?

[@malakaif.6061]

I think they mean that it's not as initially obvious. In the beginning, we get here's how Regina treats people, and we see her as the typical popular girl with everyone under her thumb. Meanwhile, Janice is portrayed as the outcast - she only hangs out with one person, everyone either ignores her or makes fun of her, and she mentions that Regina ruined her life. By setting these stark contrasts and having them as enemies, even if it's one-sided, most initially translate that to good versus evil. But by the point where Janice's yelling at Cady, we've realized that despite those outward contrasts, they're the same person on the inside

[@teejay5432]

Janice was mean I didn't like how mocked Cady for wearing perfume and said she smelled like a baby prostitute. She was bitter and scary to me when I watched this at 10.

[@Mku-JJ1if]

Ikr! Just when they start planning on taking Regina down it was clear that she is one of them and she even confesses! But the confession is overshadowed by the whole "you are in love with me" cady line and their reaction....I think its cause her being mean was seen more as taking revenge and being mean to cady and Regina was just mean to everyone.. janice was also shown in the victim light....also regina has more power here and influence so she was perceived more of a mean girl and janice was not

[@Mku-JJ1if]

@@maomi1852 well said! Thats how they are portrayed.. and thats why Janice doesnt appear as one of the mean girls... she remains low and in shadow.

[@sophiejones3554]

I realized that too, but most people didn't. The fact that Janice doesn't pronounce Cady's name correctly was the tip off to me. Janice clearly wants to be in Regina's place, not actually change the system. Hence Cady being separate from both of them by the end.

[@starrsmith3810]

One of the best things about it honestly is that it shows everyone can be mean, not just the popular kids That’s some smart writing

[@taliw7736]

True

[@jumafaro]

I also noticed one day that Regina realized Cady was a new girl, guys started hitting on her...and that meant that Cady was a possible threat. So, she took Machiavel's advice: "keep your friends close and your enemies closer". That is why she invited her to be part of the plastics.

[@kzisnbkosplay3346]

The book that Mean Girls was based on, "Queen Bees and Wannabees" was written by a woman who had spent years researching the dynamics of teenage girls. It was actually a book to help parents help daughters get through their teenage years.

[@Lisa05-qd7sk]

is it worth reading this book?

[@kzisnbkosplay3346]

@@Lisa05-qd7sk I have not read it, but I think it would be helpful for someone who desks with teenage girls.

[@Lisa05-qd7sk]

@@kzisnbkosplay3346 ok, thank u)

[@doctoreggman7308]

24:56 "[Women] have to work 5 times as hard as everyone else" Get that leftist bullshit outta here. "Who's the Meanest? Therapists React to MEAN GIRLS with guest Dr. Stephanie Sarkis" kzbin.info/www/bejne/n52zn2lviMZmla8

[@mildlifecrysis]

I heard it's also inspired from the Heather's movie

[@tweetthang96]

I think the manipulation from Janice and Damian is more obvious in the musical. A whole number from them called "Where do you belong?" that ends with them telling Cady they'll be good friends to her after dissing every other group....Anyway, this will always be in my top ten movies I think. Just really well done, and funny no matter how many times I watch it

[@engagingathena9965]

another musical fan!

[@jamingrythm584]

That's interesting, cause for me I never really saw that song as manipulation. For me it was more like Cady really was clueless and they were helping her know what she would get out which clique she associated herself with, and ultimately they took her in since no clique came without negatives.

[@leah3801]

The musical does such a good job of pointing out the toxic connections and behaviors. It's so good, I love it

[@jamingrythm584]

@@leah3801 True, I love how the musical expands on each character and the plot.

[@alex0589]

A musical is obvious? Well i never…

[@katelynwhitmore9298]

I love that Alan said that everyone in Cady's life was trying to program her into the kind of person they wanted because that is so true. She's like a blank slate at the start of the movie and everyone wants her to be something else! It's so sad

[@PolarBear-rc4ks]

Less of a blank slate, and more a person that they aren't used to. Especially with their narrow perceptions of how people should be, and how people fit into neat packages.

[@jessicaanand8615]

I was a bit surprised they didn't mention her parents/teachers when they said that.

[@fikrijuanda6321]

Not really, Janice actually likes & wants to becomes friends with cady at first because she know the struggle of outcast, Its just the moment she got recruited by regina Janice becomes mean girls

[@akarin97]

OMG! I didn't notice that the dress caddy is wearing in her bee queen party is black and pink! Regina&Janis's colors! Caddy is the baby monster of those two! 😱

[@alfy1890]

Its also an inversion of the colors of the dress that Regina wore to the spring fling

[@EmyN]

Omggg

[@Ta_Sa_]

I never noticed the parallel but Janice’s “your mom’s chest hair” mirrors Regina’s dismissal of the guy who tried to hit on Caddie to impress her.

[@Mku-JJ1if]

Interesting! They were best friends once.. they are the same

[@samaraisnt]

I literally just think it was funny. I couldn't have written that unless I was as brilliant as Tina Fey, and they write like 10 jokes for each scene so both those "burns" most likely played the best to the audience...as well they should, they're hilarious!

[@katherinehaig4660]

Yep. It makes a lot of sense that they would be best friends and get along well (until they didn't).

[@Cassxowary]

It's like Katie, C-a-d-y

[@timewastermohanty]

Imagine being so iconic a movie that years later psychologists study you to understand a demographic. I don't think any movie can match what mean girls has achieved in its life.

[@-postapokalypso-7289]

theres always this comment somewhere that for some reason wants to make a movie like that more than it is. Its an okay movie with some interesting themes, thats all.

[@samaraisnt]

@@-postapokalypso-7289 The film was actually based on a book about the researched psychology of teen girls, written by a psychologist but you don't know shit so go awf.

[@-postapokalypso-7289]

@Ks well what if i think differently? thats just how it is.

[@nonignorantsatis]

@Ks i agree with the comment above, it's not just their opinion. there are many wonderful iconic movies that don't receive as much attention, and while i don't disagree this is a good one, i don't think it necessarily has to be on this pedestal of "this is the greatest movie of ALL TIME".

[@xLiLlyx98]

​@@nonignorantsatis no one said it was the greatest of all time, only that it was iconic in displaying the dynamics of a demographic. Which is accurate.

[@thandondlovu5392]

I'm so glad you guys point out that Janis is just as much of Mean Girl as Regina so many people forget that.

[@angelazayn4878]

Agreed I feel like if she was punished by the story like Regina it would have been more effective.

[@Pink_pr1ncess]

@@angelazayn4878 Agreed, if Cady and Regina had to suffer then Janis should’ve as well

[@neshwhat702]

There ya go...this is what I have been telling

[@growingupwithdisney]

@@angelazayn4878 it’s realistic for a girl like Janis to not be held accountable for her actions

[@summerrose8110]

If I had did have to choose had any of these were actual real people to befriend, I'd be friends with Janis and Damian.

[@Sthuthukile]

You can literally see the shift in Regina after Cady says she's from Africa. It's like she was scoping her out for strengths and weaknesses, she's immediately intimidated by that and starts being passive aggressive.

[@Hollyberrystreats]

Totally agree. She already was vaguely interested in befriending the shiny new girl but then she found out had a different story than everyone she knew and could be another status symbol. She has to acquire Cady but needs to keep her in line.

[@cgarcia3614]

Really? I got the sense more that she saw Cady as someone gullible and malleable because she had no clue about the American high school/teenage experience, someone she could use like her other two cronies. But your take could be true, too.

[@theuniverseisme432]

@@cgarcia3614 exactly. She was scoping her out for weaknesses and found one: she was homeschooled and from a different country so that made her gullible and maybe “weird”. She even says in the later part of the movie “you’re a homeschooled jungle freak that’s a less hot version of me”

[@blondeepartygirl]

Great observation

[@elisabethheiman2104]

22:43 When Stephanie said, “I think saying I’m disappointed in you is harder on teenagers than saying that you’re mad at them. I was just thinking that I was a teenager not that long ago (I’m now in my early to mid twenties) and I could totally say that every time an adult said to me “I’m not angry, I’m disappointed”, I felt really terrible and tremendously guilty.

[@astrocake584]

Well, when someone is angry at you, you can always be mad back. But when someone’s disappointed in you, it’s a bit harder to be disappointed back.

[@winner78222]

Teenagers' number #1 priority is validation. Anger hurts but disappointment is direct invalidation.

[@AP-pk9gw]

to be honest, it used to be a trigger on my teen years, as @winner78222 points out, but you know, i think it also reflects how we're taught to fulfill someones standars in order to feel good no matter your age. i kinda hate that, so i ry not to overthink when people say that. like "i'm dissapointed at you" well, "im not here to meet your expectations but my own" and somtimes i gotta accept they might be right, but also gotta remind myself not to beat me so harsh for mistakes, since no one has a clean record nor it's bad, you learn from shit that happens in your life.

[@Hadeshy]

My parents never told me they were disapointed, they're more into anger. All they ever achieve is making me angry at them. But when I see a scene like that in a movie or a book, everything I feel my heart sank. I feel like it would've been way more efficiant that shouting insults.

[@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat]

That never really worked for me, my inherent reaction was always “I accept that.”

[@elinfelicia382]

A lot of movies nowadays tend to romanticize anti-social behaviours and the “I’m different from everyone” mentality. Everyone wants to play the victim for being different, and I feel like it’s been mirrored into society now, and people see “basic” people as unoriginal and shame them for it (which is counter-intuitive).

[@t.n.7771]

Agree 100%

[@asenseofyarning5614]

I'd say counter-productive more than counter-intuitive, but yeah, spot on! Most of my friends are hobbits, and so am I. We like our creature comforts and find joy in what Hollywood would call mundane. Gotta say, though, there's a lot of power in getting excited about little, mundane things!

[@arusu1806]

It’s quite funny because the normal people are the unique people.

[@monabohamad2242]

@@arusu1806 lol

[@annabeinglazy5580]

I was with you until the "Play the victim" card since it brushes off a whole butt ton of people with legitimate criticisms. Romanticing anti-social behavior and mental health is a big problem and leads to people desensitized or having really warped expectations of what anti-social looks like. But "Not Like other Girls/Guys/people" is Not a new phenomenon, the early 2000s movies thrived on it and were relentless against "Basic bitches". Music was chock full of it. Ya novels of the past 20 years were full of characters who are "quirky" because theyre not like the evil normies, i grew up with those. Doesnt really have much to do with "nowadays" unless nowadays includes the past 20 years.

[@helena2037]

i just love that this is based a book about the psychology of teenage girls and bullying. obviously, it's a comedy and there are overdramatized parts but the way girls interact with each other is grounded in reality. girls are often taught to not be outwardly aggressive and there is no place for female aggression in the world.

[@mldiluna969]

It's one of the reasons why I love girls' sports and other competitive endeavors. It teaches girls about healthy competition and aggressiveness. Surveys show that the majority of female executives played sports as girls, so let's hear it for girls' sports teaching healthy competitiveness and aggression.

[@cdorothy444]

Lol not every executive is good some executives are mean

[@mldiluna969]

@@cdorothy444 some are, true. But by and large, sports is a fairly good thing to have for girls.

[@SynthApprentice]

Is it based on a book? I heard Tina Fey based it on her own experiences as a mean girl.

[@helena2037]

@@SynthApprentice mmhm!! queen bees and wannabes is the title. im sure fey's own experiences did influence it though :)

[@markbeck8384]

I think Mean Girls is really a rare movie: a comedy with complexity, and characters that are not just pure stereotypes. It's funny without being weakly acted or wildly untrue. Also, I think the costume department just did miracles in following the arc of the characters.

[@ventusheart5733]

Yeah i thought it was a very cliché movie but i recently realised how complex the scenario was.

[@fikrijuanda6321]

​@@ventusheart5733 the movies is based on actual real life psychology book wrote from someone studying students behavior so Its makes sense to be complex

[@air-iq]

This episode makes me crave a breakdown of Easy A both as an adaptation of the scarlet letter and how it describes it in a closer adaptation to our lives. There's a lot of really interesting threads of people going through their own journeys and problems all revolving around Olive. I'm not sure how I would look at it through a therapeutic lens though it has a lot of very classic themes of toxicity as well.

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

Great suggestion, and lots of interesting things in that movie to dissect. We'll add it to our list for potential future episodes! (No promises how soon we'll get to it - that list just keeps growing!)

[@MrDrProfessorSir962]

I’ve got a pocket got a pocketful of sunshine

[@na1ani218]

Yes would love to see Easy A done!

[@gabiluch87]

That movie is so underestimated

[@Miss_Myth]

One of the things I love about Easy A is the contrast between the influence of two forms of media on Olive: the book The Scarlet Letter, which she's not very familiar with, but bases her actions on; vs John Hughes movies, which she knows very well, and which she secretly wants her life to follow.

[@fazbearfanatic4358]

I feel like movies like Mean Girls and Princess Diaries get written off as “chick flicks” too soon and people can’t see past all the pink and beauty talk to see the compelling story and narrative underneath.

[@chillsahoy2640]

I'm still kicking myself for looking over Mean Girls and dismissing it as a dumb high school chick flick for years. In the last couple of years I actually sat down to watch it and it proved me oh so wrong.

[@SynthApprentice]

Yeah, that's how I thought it would be for the longest time, but it's really very well done.

[@asenseofyarning5614]

@@chillsahoy2640 I held off watching it for almost a decade for this very reason! Bot, was I missing out. Rom-coms are also seriously underrated. They are so much more likely to show healthy family dynamics.

[@annalindgren2946]

I had a best friend that really resembled Janice and it took me years to realize how much she took advantage of me. Simple things like Janice mispronouncing Cady’s name shows a lack of respect for her wishes, which in turn could spill over into other areas. As much as Janice felt that she may have been helping Cady, she didn’t really give her a choice.

[@thegreenmanofnorwich]

I always found that calling Karen and Gretchen an "army of skanks" was interesting. Neither of them is particularly mean or unpleasant.

[@sammeh769]

Realizing neither Karen nor Gretchen were genuinely mean honestly made a lot of sense. Gretchen is incredibly rich while Karen is pretty, and thus both were 'threats' to Regina. She used Gretchen's desperation for attachment against her, as well as Karen's "dumb"-ness.

[@MsJubjubbird]

@@sammeh769 yup and Gretchen has information. She's like the lieutenant that goes and conducts surveillance. But their friendship is cute and Gretchen genuinely looks out for Karen. Karen is a really nice person as well.

[@raydromeda3777]

@@sammeh769 Karen and Gretchen are more of a representation of what Cady will become if she gets wrapped up in Regina's web.

[@shaybelle8495]

As a kid, I always felt weird because I thought I was supposed to dislike them, but I never really thought they did anything wrong. I thought I was missing something.

[@Moonlitwatersofaqua]

Karen isn't mean but Gretchen is. Shes the one who enforces all of Regina's rules. She's the one who spreads all of the nasty gossip. and after the group breaks up Cady says that she goes on just to serve another group of mean girls.

[@kathiemihindukulasuriya1538]

I went to a weeklong summer camp when I was 16. There was one boy who kept trying to touch girls inappropriately - brushing up against us etc. One girl called everyone but him - guys and girls -over and said, basically we all know what he's doing, so none of us lets him near any of the girls. Whenever he is near one girl, someone else come over and protect them. The rest of the week, we isolated him and protected each other and it was so empowering. I wish more people had her level of wisdom.

[@vikki8699]

You girls ROCK!!! Well done for sticking together and isolating that trashy guy!

[@ailene_e]

I love that scene in the gym where Tina Fey says to raise your hand if you ever talked about a friend behind her back, and all the girls raised their hands. I think the point of this movie is to show the way ALL girls are socialized to be catty and mean, to varying degrees, regardless of your social group. It’s totally true to real life, as I think any woman who went to school with other girls can attest to lol.

[@yamataichul]

I wasn't able to talk behind someone's back even when it could temporary save my skin in front of my entire class at some point (I was pressured by other girls to lie about someone, maybe out of sympathy for me?). I don't know, is really a matter of will and adapt to be rude to someone even if they may or may not in no way find out

[@pixienaeeeee]

duh 😂❤

[@kakyointhemilfhunter4273]

Guys do this all the time too. Had a lot of friends tell me other guys in the group talked shit about me and my appearance like every other day

[@NguyenHuong-lm2ij]

​​​@@kakyointhemilfhunter4273I'm sorry to hear you have to experience that, I know a lot of boys can be like that too. My highschool teen boys were as bad as the girls, to an extend I think they were even scarier than the girls. They just knew how to inluence the whole class and became wannabes for the girls.

[@socialgh0st]

15:00 "I think we're positioned, maybe in life, to justify behaviour that is inappropriate because the person was a victim or mistreated, so we're actually rooting for them" I LOVE THIS I've been in a few arguments recently over Snape's behaviour in the HP series, and often his fans will forgive all his horrible behaviour because he was bullied as a kid/had a bad childhood.

[@jenniferhiemstra5228]

TTTHHIIIISSSSSSSS. He's a complex character for sure, but over time I began to be less forgiving of his treatment of too many students. He's a clear cut case of "Sees only what he wants to see" with most people he comes in contact with. He can't separate Harry from his father, he refuses to adjust his teaching style even an inch for Neville (and I imagine a few other students) so Neville goes through a lot of life thinking he's an idiot when he just needs proper support, plays favorites more than any Hogwarts teacher, I could go on. As someone who was bullied quite a lot herself, I relate to him in that respect but his feelings get in the way of rational logic way too much.

[@maychorian]

Same with Damian in the Batman fandom. A lot of people excuse his horrible behavior because he had a bad childhood. It's an explanation, not an excuse.

[@lucyandecember2843]

i don't have anything to add, i just wanna be able to find this thread again

[@annabanana7659]

It's incredibly frustrating especially from Snape apologists that they can dismiss his abusive behavior towards kids and say, 'Oh but he was bullied when he was a kid and even Lily left him!' as if it gives him an excuse to act out like that. Yes, Snape is a good _character_ because of his morality (though it's more self-serving in my eyes rather than real redemption) but he is not a good person as other people claim. I will never forgive him for terrorizing poor Neville and other students.

[@annabanana7659]

@@WrathofFenrir99 I had a 'terror teacher' as well, she had the mentality of 'If I'm having a hard life, I'm gonna take it out on all of you!' and it got so bad that almost all of us marched right out in the middle of her class to complain to the principal. And it's annoying how some people actually shamed Lily for going out with James instead of Snape as if she's obligated to return his feelings.

[@savannahwozny9753]

I feel like we all should have seen the manipulator label being a thing with Janis via her name: Greek god of two faces. Even if you're not intensely familiar with Greek mythology and it's pantheon, Rick Riordan covered that and everything in popular media with Percy Jackson years ago.

[@scarletsage6267]

Oh yes he’s also specifically the Roman God of duality, transitions, time, and passages and always has one of his faces try to convince someone the other is lying

[@candidlyopinionated19]

I thought it was Janus?

[@averyscott9467]

@@candidlyopinionated19 same pronunciation

[@candidlyopinionated19]

@@averyscott9467 yeah, like the point still stands and all, I was just wondering if I remembered correctly.

[@Pink_pr1ncess]

And Regina is Italian for “Queen” so that’s why she acts like that

[@emilyhedrick2851]

Regina: Manipulative dictator. Janis: Slightly more likable with manipulative dictator tendencies Cady: Easy to manipulative, to the point where she becomes her manipulators. Gretchen: Easy to manipulate, could manipulate someone else if told to and know what she's doing, very insecure, psychologically abused, but not really all that mean. Primary target because she's emotionally vulnerable. Karen: Easy to manipulate but not quite smart enough to manipulate someone back, not really all that mean. Not a main target of Regina, more of an afterthought because she's not that bright and not as exciting to push around because it's so easy.

[@fikrijuanda6321]

Janice is supposed to be the same side of coin with regina. The difference Its just comes from different background

[@ladydiamond6611]

Also I really love how THE STEPHANIE pointed out the costume changes in Mean Girls, its so incredible to notice the nuances of it all, and how much care was brought into it. (there are really helpful videos online where people break this down further that id highly recommend!! xx)

[@jeaniecox6575]

Yes, @moderngurlz has a great one!

[@ladydiamond6611]

@@jeaniecox6575 we love a fashion geek xx

[@chillsahoy2640]

Something else I noticed was that the more "Plastic" Cady behaves, the more shots there are where we see her in a mirror. Whereas when she's just being herself, the shots are more straightforward.

[@ladydiamond6611]

@@chillsahoy2640 oooh good noticing!!!

[@samanthagrace2168]

I liked that too! To me it shows how someone can lose their identity by wearing many different clothes, not knowing who to be.

[@ChantalOfTheNorth]

The concept of toxic femininity is fascinating. I can definitely see how those parts of feminine socialization would manifest in a toxic way. So interesting. Must learn more.

[@42billybob]

I think there's a tendency for people to downplay, excuse, or redirect blame for it when they get very entrenched into the premise of "patriarchal society" being this ever-present cause of most of life's problems. Most often I see it re-branded as "internalized misogyny" or dismissed as stereotyping. Like, the whole "there's only so many seats at the table for women" tangent... that's true even you expand into the man's world. There aren't enough high-status seats for everyone who aspires to have one because that's just the nature of relative status. Resources are finite, people want what they don't have, and fighting over it & tearing down competitors is quicker and easier than creating new resources if you don't have a lot of confidence in your abilities or trust in the people around you. Whether or not men are overrepresented in executive power positions doesn't really change that base reality. And I think assertions about "male dominated society" actually reinforces this sort of sense that tearing people down is the path of least resistance by maintaining a sense that "the world is rigged against me." Or even rationalize that certain targets of toxic behaviour deserve it due to being part of an oppressor category. Personally, I'd lean towards the "toxic behaviour is toxic behaviour" position. But certain ways that manifests are more common in either men or women depending on how it plays to their particular strengths, to the point that one could almost consider it "characteristic" of one gender or the other. (Eg. Threatening to beat someone up if they don't fall in line will generally be considered masculine as most women won't be physically capable of backing up a threat like that often enough to make a habbit of it without specific circumstances.) But this logic starts to break down and devolve into bigotry, stereotyping, and conspiracy theories when it gets applied too universally or veering too hard into biological determinism / social constructivism.

[@oc5297]

I agree and it’s definitely much more complex since it’s no so outward like toxic masculinity since it’s more of a social order

[@klaudinegarcia8932]

Yeah!!! Also, toxic femininity can hurt men too not just women only!

[@voi3077]

@@klaudinegarcia8932 Um, toxic masculinity also hurts men a lot. A lot of men can't be themselves because of the toxic standards around them and a lot of men get mental health issues because they have internalized the toxic traits like "don't show emotion" so much. So, gender stereotypes, especially prescriptive (how men and women should be) ones, just hurt everyone although of course women are statistically worse of.

[@amazinggrapes3045]

Go to a female homeless shelter in Philadelphia. I learned LOTS there.

[@emsitdown9141]

I will say as a queer person, I don't think the 'too gay to function' as an inside joke between friends is a sign of marginalization. I would let my straight friend say that and find it funny, and then get offended if someone I dislike said it to me. Other than that, this is a great take

[@Yasumi_Hoshikawa]

it's also actually true sometimes lol....to feel too gay to function in a heteronormative world (and keep your authenticity)

[@Crazael]

Other people: "But toxicity isn't connected to gender!" Me: "Sure. But toxicity manifests differently in masculine and feminine social groups."

[@bluegirl278]

@Crazael as the reactors mentioned, that’s mostly because of the way different people are socialized and the different position they are put in by society.

[@Pink_pr1ncess]

Toxicity Masculinity vs. Toxic Femininity or sometimes cattiness

[@bluegirl278]

@@Pink_pr1ncess yup

[@DigiDestined13]

I've actually seen a woman on Twitter suggest tossing all the men into concentration camps and forcing them into slavery to allow women to essential rule over the entire planet. Now THAT'S toxic femininity.

[@wmpratt2010]

'Toxicity' is a buzzword created to do what this movie is about (according to the hosts) to manipulate and control. Unfortunately its used for politics and is used to attack. Calling out traits that aren't toxic in the name of social justice. Much of what people today consider negative kept our cavemen..sorry cave person alive.

[@certainlysunny7851]

I think for girls there is a pressure to be more feminine but also be ‘not like other girls’ or else you will be boring. In mean girls Cady is pushed by Regina to be more feminine were as Janis pushes her to be less feminine and therefore more ‘unique’ You just can’t win

[@peachypanda57]

yay expectations for women 🥳🥳

[@kuroinokitsune]

And the most sad thing here (for me at least) that "not like others girls" just do not exist in reality, since women are so different that the average makes as many sense as "other people", instead it's actually "I am not stereotype" but so poorly worded for themselves those separating and damaging.

[@jbtfp]

definitely. i think the only way to overcome the pressure is to really take the time to find yourself and then be confident about it, but ofc that’s easier said than done.

[@MidnightEkaki]

Yes. One group will look down on you for not being feminine enough and the other will put you down for being too girly. Both are a result of a patriarchy; either be desirable for men, or be like a man to get power in the world. They blame each other but never the internalised misogyny and patriarchy.

[@FabalociousDee]

This right here! Nailed it!

[@MsBlue68]

There is a mean girl culture in some workplaces too. Very toxic. No one pulls women down more than other women. Jealousy, competition, power struggles etc. It's a real thing and very damaging

[@jonatikaWwe]

I’been on a few of them and places where all or most people are females are the absolute WORST

[@Ninguin]

@juliab3326 That is wild to me. Overwhelmingly, the women are far more often rude or cold while the men tend to try to help and be friendly. That isn't to say I haven't known men who were assholes, it just seems to me like I've encountered far more women who are just out to be "Queen Bitch" to keep it in line with Mean Girls.

[@NguyenHuong-lm2ij]

In such toxic environment will surprise you about how boys can become bitches as well:)) My highschool teen boys were as bad as the girls, to an extend I think they were even scarier. They just knew how to inluence the whole class, I personally think mean girls are scary, but those boys are just as scary as them :( a lot of the bullying game or talking bad things about others were initiated by them. In my class, we had about 41 students, 36 of them were girls while only 5 of them were boys, however their presence just made bullying got worse and scarier then ever. There were few of the students in my class acted like queen bees and kings, and 3 years of my highschool life were just power playing and topics about bullying, talking ills about others. They were all mentally ill kids, now when I looked back into the past

[@Widdekuu91]

I have noticed that if men are mean, they are physical, women play psychologically. That is why in the workplace, I have been ordered by men to continue working under bad conditions or metooed, while women would usually play nice, but then tell me that I was just so unfit and they pitied me, but there was nothing they could do, the team demanded it, I had to be fired. And then later, you realise théy made that decision and the women in the team cry about you leaving.

[@teesh871]

I did never notice Janis as a mean girl initaly either but when I think about it...before Regina turned on her they were friends. They means they must have had some of their own overlapping character traits. I believe...and I think its mentioned on this channel before...you can't hate someone if you didn't initially have some love for them. Like...people can annoy you but the hurt really comes from betrayal from someone you cared for...Janis really hates Regina which suggests that maybe she really connected with her at some point. Maybe I'm looking into it too much?

[@forestgrump4723]

No you’re right. They were close friends or Regina wouldn’t have been able to convince everyone she was a lesbian.

[@ahstiasummers5583]

Hate is not the opposite of love. Hate implies you still care about them in some degree. Apathy is the true opposite of love and hate

[@kaykeunil]

@@ahstiasummers5583 yes but this comment wasn’t implying that hate was the opposite of love, rather that it often is the product of loving someone/something first. Therefore of course there is still investment in the whole Janis revenge plot, she clearly still cares about Regina just no longer in a positive manner.

[@Jespidi]

If I recall well, Janis tells Cady what happened between her and Regina which felt like a betrayal to Janis and so, all the revenge started. That's one thing that explains how we are not allowed as girls to solve conflicts. This movie aged so well!

[@sexyhehe]

I definitely agree with that angle as in hate certainly does come from initially having some initial form of love for them, especially through betrayal

[@Dan-B]

The character analysis of characters in the film is fascinating enough, so a psychological analysis is even more fascinating!

[@felixhenson9926]

I think the thing you overlooked in your discussion after Janice pulls up on Kady after the art show thing is that Janice openly said "At least me and Regina know we're mean", like she never pretended to be anything else.

[@pbower4378]

No, Janice says ‘at least Regina knows she’s mean.’ Janice doesn’t own up to any of her own manipulative or mean behavior

[@visix.o]

@@pbower4378 She definitely says "at least me and Regina know we're mean", however I believe that's the last we hear of her owning up to anything.

[@KAye633]

@@pbower4378did you watch the film? She said me and Regina know were mean…

[@GosterMonster526]

Something I thought about after you guys pointed out the consistency in Gretchen's and Janice's outfits, versus the flux in Cady's outfits: in most animated/musical movies, the villains usually have "I Am" songs, showing a direct consistency in their desires, while heroes usually have "I Want" songs, showing the capability and desire for change.

[@occasionalfan-content4771]

The “I am” and “I want” song dichotomy is really interesting because in writing, the purpose of a hero is to ask questions and the purpose of a villain is to provide answers.

[@MegaKhelditia]

This makes the combo punch of, "What's Wrong with Me," and its reprise, that much more smarting. Those two songs, in conjunction, tell me of generational trauma bonds to narcissistic abusers. Which can help explain some villains' motivations! It also helps me see Aaron's and Janis's character developments from previous victimhood/mentality in the better light than *ONLY* seeing Janis as an ostracized Mean Girl; she's on a bumpy path of recovery that took steps back, into a "Revenge Party," before finding another landing forward, at "Rather Be Me." I recommend the soundtrack.

[@MegaKhelditia]

And that's saying nothing of Cady's songful character arc! It's reflected in the lyrics, which I must now rescan...

[@GosterMonster526]

@@MegaKhelditia is this from the musical? Cool!

[@MegaKhelditia]

@@GosterMonster526 Yes! As soon as I got Spotify, I downloaded the soundtrack. It's maybe not an instant classic, but because the movie was, and because the musical takes all of the psychology and bumps it into the social media age, the musical stands alone without its predecessor, but I think it stands tallest with all the context.

[@m3rrys0ngstr3ss]

I hadn't seen this movie in years, I forgot what a charm offensive Regina pulls at the beginning!

[@joshuadavis1547]

Janice gives off serious “not like other girls” energy

[@sylviasammon-burns6021]

Fun fact: In my English class we were talking about Gaslighting in "Othello" and how Iago is a gaslighter. My teacher said we would be using an article from Psychology Today, that lists signs and tactics used by gaslighters. We were given a tactic and asked to show where he does it. It was her article, and I asked my teacher before we go the article if it was the one by Dr. Stephanie Sarkis. He said he had no idea but when I got it I immediately identified it, because of your video. I also got very excited because I knew it, because it is by THE Dr Stephanie Sarkis, and because already used this article to help understand the play. It was such a helpful article, I used it for many assignments both prior to and after this assignment.

[@Evqureg96]

I always thought Janice was manipulative in a more “covert” way whereas Regina is blatantly manipulative. I love how Dr. Sarkis pointed out the concept of women all sitting at a table and we only have so many seats so we feel if we lift another woman up, we may lose our chance. I had a friendship where we were unfortunately compared to each other within our church congregation due to our musical abilities and the other person eventually saw me as a threat/competition and it ruined the friendship. There was covert manipulation on their side to keep me in my “place” so ultimately it was best for both of us that the relationship dissolved. I’m not making excuses for the toxic and manipulative behavior I endured, but it does help me to understand that the other person was doing it as a defense mechanism due to lack of self-confidence. I think when we can see the humanity behind it, it helps us to heal and not harbor negative feelings towards someone. It stems from the socialization of fear of loss of connection (if she is prettier, more talented, etc. other people will connect with her and I will be left alone).

[@Jaxmusicgal23]

We had similar issues at our former church. It felt like hen pecking without a rooster to keep them from bullying one another. They really acted like mean girls and like if you didnt fall in line in thought and act that somehow you would ruin their little power bubble. It wasnt even about stuff in the Bible but social and political based stuff that mature people should be able to agree to disagree. I tried to get along and ignore being myself but it wasnt enough and as I got more capable to speak the truth calmly and peacefully I got more hate and nagging via texts and social messaging to “change”. Hubby and I decided we didnt like the social structure as the woman seemed to really run the church. All the kindness and the “help” was there if you did whst you liked but once you disagree all that went away fast!!! We visited a lot of churches and the one we decided to attend at the women dont feel the need to keep woman in line or that they need to protect their status or position because we all just want to serve and care for each other and its real. You can disagree and still get along with others at the church we now attend. It takes alot to fix toxic groups unless you are the one on the inside….. its sad.

[@Evqureg96]

@@Jaxmusicgal23 It is really sad. I'm so glad you were able to find a group that didn't have that toxic environment. It really makes all the difference to not feel like you have to walk on eggshells, especially in a setting where there should be strengthening and support of one another.

[@morningglory3644]

This is a good assessment...because I don't always think the media or society pit women against each other. I recall a situation where I was friends with a guy I worked with. I met his wife for the first time in a self-development program. She was initially friendly with me at first, but the moment she found out that her husband was the one who introduced me to the program...all her defenses went up. She even bursted into tears & immediately felt threatened by me. I don't know why. It was a self-improvement program that we were all enrolled in & he was helping me as a coach so we corresponded every now & then, but it was all innocent. I know we didn't do anything wrong, but I guess she was afraid that she may lose connection with him, and felt the need to protect her man. I chose to distance myself from them because I recognized that she was somewhat possessive of him, and there was no room for me in order for them to repair their relationship after I heard they had a falling out prior to when I first entered the program.

[@jenynz5334]

@@morningglory3644 I'm sorry you went through that. Not knowing anything other than what you wrote, it seems they had fidelity issues well before she met you. Probably either he has been unfaithful in the past or has acted very suspicious. Or maybe she had had those issues in a former relationship. But then again there are people who are extremely paranoid or manipulative for no concrete reason. Either way, I think it is good that you were sensitive enough to remove yourself. Many wouldn't have, and not cared what she thought about it. I hope you are doing well today 🙂

[@broEye1]

"Disappointed" is definitely far worse than "mad" for a kid, or even for an adult from someone you admire. I remember when I was younger there was a comic in the newspaper that had something like that. A little girl talked to a friend who'd just gotten a lecture and asked if they grounded her or yelled at her, and she responded "Worse, they're disappointed in me" and the first girl clearly responded as if that was the harshest punishment she could imagine.

[@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat]

I don’t even know how to voice how quickly I would accept being told that

[@ReReNotMe]

Now we've done Mean Girls what about Heathers? The movie that paved the way for movies like this to exist. I think there's a lot to analyse in characters like Veronica and especially JD

[@Anonymous_Gambito]

Oh yeah that'd be cool

[@ZyxiaYrah]

Oh, definitely

[@Jaypupp]

Honestly JD is a perfect representation for how guilt controls relationships, a lot of the reasons Veronica stays with JD is because he "needs" her. Its a super interesting dynamic that has a lot of lessons in it

[@Mku-JJ1if]

Oh yes they need to discuss that..

[@daisylovesnoodles2166]

Yes JD is such a fascinating character

[@holly5026]

I've always had a problem with the scene after the party with Janice driving next to cady, and I never knew what it was that bugged me about it. I just realised that it's because Janice is talking to her in the same kinda tone that you would use with a dog. when she calls cady a mean girl she sounds like she's talking to a dog that's stolen a bag from a stranger or something along those lines.

[@pixiebells]

She's admonishing her like a pet that did something wrong, as opposed to another human being who is turning into another person but at the same time this only happened because Janice manipulated her into it in the first place.

[@allydef]

@@pixiebells I always haaaated the gaslighting Janis does to Cady in this scene where Cady called her out for using her as a puppet for revenge on Regina, but Janis is like “but Regina and I know that we’re mean but you try to act like you’re so innocent!”

[@sagenebula]

"The only protagonist of the film is Tina Fey." No, the protagonist is Cady. The protagonist of a story is the character who moves the plot along, who the story centers around. Tina Fey is the only HEROIC character, but she's not the protagonist because the film is not about her. Protagonists don't have a morality; they can be heroic, neutral, or villainous. For instance, Walter White is the protagonist of Breaking Bad, but he is also most decidedly the villain.

[@shoyuramenoff]

I'm pretty sure he was joking lol

[@tatianesantiago639]

it was a joke

[@GPS_DS]

I would say Don Cheadle was also one of the few consistently good people, he just wants to help the teenagers, even with absurd resorts, like fire alarming them into the gym.

[@SusanBurchettComedy]

No, he wasn’t. Because Don Cheadle wasn’t in Mean Girls.

[@GPS_DS]

@@SusanBurchettComedy he’s the principal, Mr. Duvall.

[@purcascade]

I recognized Janice as a villain immediately. The alternakids were my group. I knew that girl. I was that girl. That might be why I've always found Regina to be a much more sympathetic character.

[@summerrose8110]

I CALL A BULLSHIT!

[@purcascade]

@@summerrose8110 Sweetie, I just admitted on the open internet that I was a massive bitch in high school, so perhaps -just perhaps- I picked up on something you didn't based on my own personal experiences. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night. Bye now. Good luck with all that. 🙄

[@chloereed2434]

@@summerrose8110 weird comment to make considering nobody has a reason to lie

[@summerrose8110]

@@chloereed2434 I don't justify Janis's actions and decisions, but she's not the only one accountable. That's what I'm saying.

[@summerrose8110]

@@purcascade Well, I don't know you or who were you were in your younger years, but I have a different opinion from yours in this classic film. So don't insult me.

[@charmedlife1990]

Of course it'd be the Mean Girls episode I'd be early to lol. This movie basically set up my friend group's teen years lol. We learned some positive messages that follow us to this day.

[@tiffanypersaud3518]

Wonderful!

[@Zelda01Fan]

I think Tina Fey’s character is a good display of how high school doesn’t last forever, that being your own person and a grown up goes so much beyond whatever ‘power’ you had as a teenager

[@MaeAlessa]

If it were Wednesday they would be wearing pink

[@trinaq]

Precisely, they're just one day early! 😂

[@reddd3109]

PERCY JACKSON

[@giabertozzi2104]

PERCY JACKSON

[@giabertozzi2104]

@@reddd3109 YES

[@berylhu4828]

PERSASSY JACKSON

[@totallytusa2711]

I love everything about this. I’ve been in incredibly toxic friendships and there have definitely been narcissistic and emotional abuse after seeing this video. It’s been really hard for me to get out of this and often I let them back in. But this channel is really helping me so thank you so much 😊🙌

[@Citrine_Bee]

Omg same! While I was in these friendships, it always seemed like it was my fault. It’s actually really nice to know I’m not alone in this world :)

[@sydnipollard4920]

honestly tho...

[@SarahRichardsGraba]

I don't know your age, but just wanted to say that as a near 40 year old, I have finally learned to not engage in toxic friendships, even with those who I love dearly. Honestly, the stuff seen in Mean Girls happens across age, all the way until you are elderly... And I realized it only stops when I decide it stops. Finding a few friends who are genuinely trustworthy and loving and authentic--and investing in THOSE relationships rather than ones that depleted, limited, or straight up hurt me--made a HUGE impact on my mental health. I hope the same for you! 💚

[@totallytusa2711]

@Middleschool Boi If there’s one thing I learned, it’s that it’s not your fault. And you’re not alone, I’m here for you!

[@totallytusa2711]

@Sarah Richards Graba Thank you 💙

[@jessadelix7415]

I really enjoy seeing two guys talk about typically female films like twilight and mean girls. I don’t want to make this a “congratulate a man for shit he should already be doing” thing, but it’s just so refreshing and nice to see two blokes discuss it so respectfully, with obvious care for the teenage girl audience and not being condescending towards them. So many times we told we’re stupid for enjoying films like this by men. But you make effort to understand it, I appreciate it. And I love seeing you enjoy watching these films too!! :)

[@TheLuckyPurse]

Thank you for analyzing my childhood!!! I met a "Janis" once in my life! she's that "I'm not like the other barbies". At first I thought she was a misunderstood unique girl just to later became her venting toy! When someone called Janis a cool hero, I'll have try so hard not to cringe. She is definitely a Mean Girl too.

[@siggilinde5623]

Aaah from one ex-venting toy to another: I feel you xD I've seen this movie SO often and Janis always had seemed like someone I know... Thanks, now I know xD oh how I so not miss her!

[@TheLuckyPurse]

@@siggilinde5623 Same! Cheers to no more missing those wolves in sheep's clothing!!!

[@jbtfp]

yeah, janis was definitely the “i’m not like other girls” girl before the term even came to be.

[@applepieplays1684]

You just described my 6 year friendship I had to break off last year. It's wild.

[@TheLuckyPurse]

@@applepieplays1684 Glad you got out of that toxic friendship, wish you luck, and better friend!!!

[@staticprevails13]

What a perfect movie to do an episode on, considering it was largely inspired by the teen parenting book queen bees and wannabes, which broke down female clique culture in American highschools. Loved this so much and it’s so cool to come back to this movie multiple times and find new things. Like I never caught before what a subtle display of power Janice calling Cady by the wrong name was

[@forestgrump4723]

Yea I had a “friend” that I had told I don’t like Meg as a shortening of my name and she responded with “yea but I can call you Meg, right? Because we’re friends.” And I agreed because I didn’t want to not be friends. And I never realized at the time how manipulative and shitty that was.

[@EH23831]

Same- and the sword!

[@inferiorinferno8859]

Nothing has to do with this being set in America though. I can still actually relate to these movies from my own experrience and I'm literally from the Netherlands. Mean Girls is THE iconic girl movie because unlike movies such as Heathers, it transcends culture and is applicable to the social dynamics of teen girls worldwide.

[@FranciscanGypsy]

@@forestgrump4723 I hate it when people do that. I’ve had people tell me “I’m just going to call you ‘T’.” I eventually got to the point where I would say “no, you’re not. I like my name. And it’s not a letter.” I don’t mind nicknames that come from true affection, but telling a person you don’t know well that you’re going to call them something other than their name is kind of rude. It can set the tone of how everyone else in a new environment addresses you. And it implies that the person can’t be bothered to learn your name or to respect what you prefer to be called.

[@wiseforcommonsense]

I always knew that Janis was the secondary antagonist. she was almost worse then Regina in my mind cause she actually acted like a friend in the beginning and wouldn't admit that she was in the wrong for using someone.

[@egl12fen]

Hmm, she gave reason for wanting Cady to remain in the plastics, just not specifically. Also, Janice and Damien seemed to accept Cady into their group before Cady was invited to sit with the plastics. I believe the friendship was genuine and I like to imagine they would have remained friends if Cady had never made it in with Regina and Co. You'll note, as Cady hesitated when asked to sit by Regina, Janice was waving her over. I don't think she was a fake friend, she just saw an opportunity when Cady was invited into the plastics.

[@niteowel9052]

This reminded me how much I love Rachel McAdams, her performance is literally perfect

[@helenchelmicka3028]

Ikr! Took me couple mins in spotlight to realise omg she's not actually that person lol

[@danb6716]

I guess there was a reason why Regina and Janis were once best friends

[@Pink_pr1ncess]

There’s a quote that says “show me friends and I’ll tell you your personality” and that heavily applies to the this movie

[@glorialiedtke8931]

The ancient greeks had a similar saying about your enemies

[@fikrijuanda6321]

Is people are really that dumb not noticed that regina and janis is basically the same. They both are alpha woman trying to win leadership but one of them lose

[@Lee-qf9dz]

Can we please get a well made and written prequel to Mean Girls that shows Regina and Janis's friendship before Mean Girls?!

[@Case.Case.23]

I’ve always thought about this!

[@Blessed4infinity]

Only if it’s a short

[@Kazuki_0]

To late

[@Case.Case.23]

@@Kazuki_0 they could cast different girls, they were in middle school when it happened

[@radhiadeedou8286]

No

[@heleneeriksen7004]

I would love to see you guys discussing the siblings in Narnia - could be through all three movies, but especially the first one.

[@criss4457]

OMG YES

[@SophMcGoph27]

Yessss I would love to see a video specifically on Peter and Edmund’s relationship

[@Juli-ow5uc]

Yesssss

[@brianelson1481]

OH MY GOD YEAH!!!

[@Merlijn1994]

Oooh I like that idea, even though I'm not the biggest Narnia fan by a far stretch

[@justineprevost3398]

Your channel is the best kind of entertainment. Inclusive, funny, thoughtful, geeky, sensitive. Thank you thank you thank you!

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

Wow, thank you!

[@macyskaggs3772]

Mean girls to date is still one of the best movies that portrays teenagers. Nowadays I think directors focus too much on getting the culture of modern teens in their movies and because trends move on so fast now, it always dates the movie in a bad way.

[@fikrijuanda6321]

Because the movies is based on psychology book written from someone studying students behavior. I think no one bother to makes new psychology mean girls book 2024 edition makes filmmakers kinda clueless

[@tonyarawlings]

Did you ever consider that since Regina and Janice were once friends that Regina actually learned how to be a mean girl from Janice? So Janice is the original mean girl.

[@MissteriousMisstress]

You don't just get to fuck with my childhood like that!

[@SimsyHazel]

I think it would be more possible that they learnt from each other with it escalating every time

[@KrisBryant99]

@@SimsyHazel considering that Janis hid more behind her meaness it's like Regina learned from her

[@HelenM1994]

18:19 'They think everyone else has a problem, they don't' - lived this with a relative and it hits the nail on the head. It's really been good watching this as, having dealt with a narcissistic person, I can see the similarities when re-watching Mean Girls, and realise how bad *everyone* was treating her!

[@danaamram]

I think the stereotype that girls should be gentle, cute and socially submissive shows that the only way to vent aggression and show anger is in a passive-aggressive way

[@xkathygee]

The Stephanie has organised her books by height and it makes me so happy.

[@helenchelmicka3028]

🤣

[@esval3054]

Not such a good idea when you're looking for a title ir author

[@loushark6722]

My perfectionist brain is very satisfied too

[@cupofcait]

That split screen 4 way call with you guys in the middle cracked me up! So good!!

[@Tootsiepop201]

Every time someone would tell me "so and so said this" I would either disregard it as an obvious lie or immediately go to that person and say, "hey, I need you to be honest, did you say this? It's ok, I just want to understand." And I was subject to manipulation, but never that.

[@agnescjq]

wishing more people would be like you

[@SimsyHazel]

SAME. I had friends that would lie to me about this kinda shit. She told me that this creepy kid had a crush on me and wanted to kiss me. I definitely heard her lies and pretended to believe them but I never genuinely made anything from her lies. I still think about her whenever I see that guy tho

[@ashes_ol]

hell yeah, two therapists in one video, double therapy

[@Baldwin-iv445]

Double the therapy? Double the bill.

[@sinchanaacharya2975]

Honestly, the level of insight we got about our society from (a) just watching the movie, and (b) watching these three amazing humans dissecting it is so wonderful. As a high schooler myself, I havent gone through these kinds of experiences yet, but what we learn about the world is enough to confirm that Mean Girls is truly showing us how we are conditioned to be, and why we should break out of it. And I'm glad that as a society we truly do seem to be growing, learning and making this world a better place. Thank you so much Jonathan, Alan, and THE Stephanie Sarkis🤗

[@kuroinokitsune]

Oh.. I hope you're do not go through something like this in your young age (and hopefully never in life, but let's settle for young age). That is terrible

[@casebycase_904]

Janice is the worst. Resentful of the plastics but she wants to become one, but she cannot. So she manipulated the new and hot girl who is vulnerable and new to the whole school and what not to get her revenge? Does Janice ever really own up to anything? Saying jt infront of a bunch of girls lightly and getting cheers while Cady was blamed and hated. Watching it again as a grown up, I am horrified

[@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat]

I never understood the desire for strangers attention, when you’re never going to think about them after 5 years of real life

[@XxdextriousxX]

@@UCannotDefeatMyShmeatat that age you just want to fit in and be accepted so the opinions of others especially those your own age matters a lot more than it should. Until you mature of course

[@Widdekuu91]

Janice did not initially want this, she waved Cady over to her table, she saw the potential when Cady sat down at Regina's table.

[@casebycase_904]

@Widdekuu91 ya i lowkey think if janice had the looks, she would have made a bigger and even more ruthless queen bee than whichever Rachel McAdams' character was called -i even forgot that character's name!

[@seyeruoynepotsuj]

Seeing Dr Decker cracking jokes to make Dr Sarkis laugh all the time is so sweet. He really appreciates she's there and looks up to her, and wants her to feel comfortable in his show!! :)

[@BeckyMa9482]

Omg. I'm so excited to watch this! This takes me back to college. I went to a women's college, and the toxicity was intense sometimes. I was also the victim of a narcissist. Sadly, that whole thing wasn't neatly tired up like this was. That person is still wreaking havoc as far as I know.

[@l.tc.5032]

Janis honestly reminds me of one of the worst people I ever met. She pretend to be my friend and tried to gaslight me into disliking a genuinely nice person because she didn't like her.

[@Cwronaga216]

You guys should do a psychology of a Hero on Peter Quill (star lord). Might be a tough one but his backstory is tragic yet he masks it with a childlike humor that is very relatable. He gets alot of flack for his actions but he actually acts like alot of real people would when faced with loss.

[@jeremybrummel3254]

Hmmm. I mean, I love the part of the movie where they say "no one is a complete dick". I am not a super dark hero person, aside from Batman because he relatively keeps his feelings in check and stays objective, like Tony Stark it is enjoyable to watch relatively more flawed people grow into steadily less flawed heroes. I do not know if Starlord is selfish enough to be narcissist, but I would like to think even Ebenezer Scrooge would save a planet of lives if he could even before his Christmas enlightenment.

[@renoirrr]

oh yes this is a good one. also I dont think this has much to do with this but he usually gets blamed for infinity war ending with half the universe disintegrating and yeah at first I was like "ayo, STOP WYD-" and it was too late, but now that i'm older and can watch movies and see past their surface, there is so much bottled up emotions shown from the two GotG movies that it was inevitable (someone once pointed out that he is one of the more fucked up characters the mcu has produced, along with wanda and someone else that cant rmb, and its been in my head to this date). dr strange did his search into the future before the scene where they tried taking off the gauntlet and there was only 1 which means even if he didnt end up waking thanos from mantis' slumber they wouldve still lost. idk if this is more commonly accepted as the movies have been around for a couple years but I saw ppl do movie commentaries recently and still unironically blame him lol

[@BantheBans]

OMG Karen, you can't just ask people why they're white

[@susanpumphrey354]

LOL my daughter was on a Mean Girls kick back a few years ago when she was a young teen. We were all playing a board game one night and my husband said something about some of the meeples being brown when their part of the board was a different color. I said in a Mean Girls' voice "OMG honey, you can't just ask people why they're brown!" and I legit thought my daughter was going to pee herself laughing.

[@BantheBans]

@@susanpumphrey354 that's awesome! 🤣 one of my daughters gave me a t-shirt for mothers day that says "I'm not a regular mom, I'm a cool mom". I wear it every year!

[@hydrolito]

People wear clown makeup to be white how hard is that to figure out?

[@BantheBans]

@@hydrolito are you ok? 🤣

[@leosmith7511]

Oh my gosh I'm so glad they touch on the name thing. Its so freakin important to say people's names right and call them what THEY allow you to call them. I'm the kind of person who likes to give nicknames, but I only do so with the person's consent. What you call a person gives you power over a part of their being.

[@jenniferhiemstra5228]

I think we all knew this movie was full of stuff to learn, but MAN I never even thought about half the things discussed here! Never even considered the hot take that Janis is an antagonist of her own kind, but now I stand in full agreement with it. Just a sidenote for Jonathan-Top shelf high five for (lack of a better phrase) gender switched roles in relationships! Because same here :)

[@jeremybrummel3254]

Pretty much.

[@hydrolito]

I knew Janis was an antagonist first thing in watching the movie. It was obvious.

[@mackenziediaz8780]

It's interesting how everyone is evil in a way because is shows how no one is perfect or has perfect morals. Makes the characters feel raw. A lot of media doesn't have strong personality flaws for their main characters.

[@hannahberlinpetry450]

Yes, thank you for mentioning that brains really aren’t that different, but that men and women are socialized differently!

[@bravehome4276]

Unless socialization affects blood flow in brains, there is a difference. Blood flow studies of male/female brains show that the flow mainly concentrates in the left hemisphere for males, whereas it flows more evenly between left/right hemispheres in most females. Also studies have shown that most men dream in black&white, whereas most females dream in color. Of course there are exceptions (such as Jonathan, I'll bet he has equal distribution. I also dream in vivid color, but didn't know this was 'unusual' until this was pointed out by a psych teacher in college) but most subjects show this pattern.

[@kristenlandon1538]

Thank you for bringing this study to the table! Agreed. 💯

[@CatharticCreation]

Most men do not dream in black and white. Where did you get that from?

[@bravehome4276]

@@CatharticCreation A sociologist from UCLA told me that after a study he had done.

[@MissteriousMisstress]

.

[@Zeiko501]

Oh my god. THE Dr. Stephanie Sarkis! I knew the moment I saw her, this is going to be my favorite video from Cinema Therapy... And it is! Thank you so much for pointing out so many things we viewers might have missed while simply enjoying the fun of the iconic movie that is Mean Girls. I never realize Janet was basically manipulating Cady the same way Regina did. And I love how you brought up how women are taught to socialize the certain ways to be accepted. Honestly, bring her back whenever you can, please. The chemistry between the three of you are that good.

[@jjcymbolic]

I love how this channel helps me to look at myself. Where can I be better, where could I have hurt someone, what have I done that's been good.

[@KattWithAnAtSign]

I love that she points out that manipulation, while often used to harm, isn’t in and of itself inherently bad, too!

[@ellenfilms9971]

I read the book that this movie is based on, it’s basically a self help book to understand teenagers and to help your teenagers. There is a wonderful part of the book which was so cleverly represented when Cady meets The Plastics. Regina saw that Cady was a threat when Jason hits on her, she also saw that Cady was vulnerable. Regina being “nice” to Cady and all the questions was her trying to learn Cady and gain her trust and be her friend so that Cady knew that Regina is the boss. Regina is dominating and trying to make sure she is not over thrown. It’s so clever and something I love about this movie is the brilliant adaptation of the advice and Queen Bee manipulation tactics in the book. ❤️xxx

[@muskaan3711]

I was just rewatching this the other day. One of the most iconic teen movies imo.

[@aki_4191]

I watched Mean girls in middle school and I’ve never realized that Janice is an antagonist too. And the messages, the psychological behaviors,...I guess I was just too young but this video made me saw that.

[@teawitch785]

I think you'd love to look into The Umbrella Academy. It dives deep into trauma and how it affects us.

[@quietvalerie1]

Yes! Love this movie. As a homeschooled freak myself I couldn't help but empathize.

[@tiamarie6719]

This is a good movie, not only because of it's funny jokes and it's nostalgic factor; but also because, it has a good anti-bullying message. Also, these guys brought up some good points about how girls are expected to be in order to fit in. I find that relatable, especially as an autistic person struggling to fit in growing up.

[@PolymorphicPenguin]

Thank you for inviting Dr. Sarkis for this episode. One, having another perspective in general is always good. Two, when the topic involves young women's social struggles, someone who has been through those struggles herself can offer a lot more wisdom. A bunch of men talking about women's experiences always has its limitations, so I'm glad you avoided that situation here.

[@nonamejenkins3293]

I was a bit disappointed by some of her opinions, though, especially the ones related to gender. A lot of what she said was not up to date (regarding research) and can be quite harmful when perpetuated by someone who's viewed as an authority on the subject. But I did like the Idea to have someone who's personally affected to speak on the portrayed issues.