American McGee's Alice - Talent in Madness

[@AmericanMcGeeOfficial]

I promise the 3rd game will have the salsa but not the fish.

[@warden-commandercousland]

Can't wait to see it man.

[@princessmaly]

You putting snarks in the first one is what got me to read Hunting of the Snark. That and the boojum are such awesome deep cuts.

[@plagueofangel8694]

I love you, creator of American McGee's Alice, American McGee's. Can't wait for the 3rd game

[@ootdega]

Holy shit he's here Pin this beatiful man

[@alexjimenez9178]

Let me just say one thing king: TIM BURTON AINT SHIT

[@lakamokolaka]

EA: Why do people pirate games? *Makes it impossible to get this game normally* EA: I wonder what it could be?

[@richardbottom9843]

Yeah you can't get the nfs games that came out before undercover either and I'm pretty sure it would take them like 2 clicks to make digital copys

[@captainfunktastic2255]

Because they don't want you to own and play games they cant control. Modern games have DRM, micro-transactions, forced online, multiplayer, subscriptions, and a myriad of data collection codes they can sell. Right after EA stopped *Challenging Everything* (circa 2005), is when the company turned pure evil, and started culling their back catalog.

[@Karnickel93]

@@richardbottom9843 It would be pretty "easy" to upload to a store yes. Getting the licenses of cars, songs and other likelihoods in an acceptable timeframe without new conditions? Unlikely. Add to that, that EA doesn't want to spend money for renewing these licenses without knowing if they'd sell enough copies or get in a shitstorm because "of being lazy and just re-release the games from 10+ years ago, which don't even run out-of-the-box on modern systems". As much as I hate EA and want games to come back (legally), I can't see the reasons a publisher would do that in 2021.

[@CoralCopperHead]

@@captainfunktastic2255 You're adorable.

[@puremarblec]

Isn't this included with the sequal

[@HoloCatHead]

End Boss: " You cannot defeat me. I am all powerful!" Main Character: "I am going to defeat you through the power of believing in myself... And this gun I found."

[@ArcturusOTE]

Faith, trust, and very spicy dust

[@actung4044]

Just some self encouragement and some lead the way god intended

[@TheDoomerBlox]

Faith, trust, spicy dust? Words of self-encouragement, take the gun - blow your head off! Isn't that some good fun! Or are there other things you trust?

[@WastedScoundrel]

Literally the ending to the movie Wizards.

[@JojonathanOliveira]

As Alice would say: "Eat lead!"

[@matrix3509]

Watching Civvie is like watching a "Where are they now?" segment on the original Doom developers. I wonder when he'll do one on 4th dimensional being, John Carmack?

[@emetanti]

Not really many games Carmack got to do with directly, he´s more the guy providing the batshit engines than designing the games themself.

[@v8matey]

@@emetanti isn't he doing something to do with VR?

[@codyvangogh8111]

@@v8matey Consulting Chief Technical Officer of Oculus. And he plays a lot of Beat Saber.

[@karlgoodman9194]

@@codyvangogh8111 I suspect he’s planning to launch an augmented reality satellite into orbit so as to control the minds of the entire population of earth from his floating space fortress on Venus.

[@walternelson2687]

Selling your soul to Facebook is somehow worse than selling it to EA so I don't think it'll be happening any time soon.

[@sevenproxies4255]

Publisher demands that American McGee's name is used in the title of the game for marketing reasons. American McGee objects, because he acknowledge that making the game is a team effort of the staff and not just his invention. What a legend.

[@MiniMackeroni]

I actually never bought this game back when it first came out *because* his name was plastered in front of the title. "American McGee's Alice" made me think this was some shallow egotistical dime-a-dozen game when it was in fact the exact opposite.

[@Skullkan6]

It sucks that he keeps getting fucked over by fate.

[@sinko3811]

And then he thankfully got his wish with "Alice: Madness Returns"...but even then the game has still the subtitle "An American Mcgee game" on the bottom of the box.

[@ChibiKami]

when it came out I didn't know who American McGee was, so I thought it was something like how Todd McFarlane stuck his name on everything that's not Spawn and figured he was some indie comic creator I'd never heard of

[@WTFisTingispingis]

Chad.

[@RolandTheJabberwocky]

I highly appreciate the fact you killed the Jabberwock with the vorpal blade.

[@AliaImmortalis]

"One, two! One, two! And through and through The vorpal blade went snicker-snack! He left it dead, and with its head He went galumphing back."

[@Everik-ct6pg]

You know what they say, it's better to do it by the book

[@ZylonBane]

Sauce for the goose.

[@stirnersretrowave5094]

O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!

[@EmilyTestAccount]

Me in the year 2000: "Wow, a gun in a magic game? This sucks" Me in the year 2021: "Sometimes magic just isn't enough and what the witch character really needs is a .50"

[@cartooncritique6625]

That reminds me of an episode of "How It Should Have Ended". The one where they parodied "The Wizard of Oz" and just shot the fuckin' witch! XD

[@Slimurgical]

To be fair, The Asgard couldn't defeat the Replicators because they didn't have A GUN.

[@JeanMarceaux]

"OK, Nolla games, I like Noita, but you need to give the wizard a gun" - Vinny Vinesauce. Funny thing is, Noita has a gun now.

[@EmilyTestAccount]

@@JeanMarceaux floating dudes in ice caves had a sort of garbage cannon, and there were the weird mouse looking snipers, hopefully the guns are as ridiculously dangerous to you as the wands

[@JeanMarceaux]

@@EmilyTestAccount it's minigun, so you're at a perpetual threat of drowning in brass or dying to electric powder, which is created from brass and diamond.

[@captainfunktastic2255]

Civvie: Shows scenes from Strife but refuses to comment. Ross: *while tapping fingertips maniacally* Good. Good.

[@CoralCopperHead]

...The fuck is a Ross?

[@hudsonswarts7143]

@@CoralCopperHead Ross's game dungeon. The guy from Freeman's Mind, he reviewed Strife a long while ago.

[@Igniz_aeromozol]

I bet it's coz the abundance of sewers in strife.

[@justuspickle]

@@Igniz_aeromozol that seems exceptionally likely

[@davidabest7195]

@@Igniz_aeromozol - Ross damn near lost his mind during the massive sewer section in Strife lol

[@KeithBallardA]

Was that Alice with a gun animation synced to the drums of Judas Priest's Painkiller? lol

[@vidyajamesu]

That's how Civvie measures a gun's worth. If he can play Painkiller on it, it's good.

[@Naxell]

Oh wow, didn't expect to see you here Keith!

[@ryandlion6961]

good call! I'm a huge priest fan and don't think I would have pinned that,had I not seen your comment first.

[@thelordofthelostbraincells]

I assume yes

[@krullachief669]

It is a sacred ritual!

[@13lood13ath]

The decisions EA chooses to make really upsets me. I don't understand why they don't release the optimized game for purchase on Origin. I worked for EA from 2007-2012 and in one of the lobbys of their buildings they have life-sized statues of the original Alice and Cheshire cat. They were awesome and I kept asking people if I could buy them, but they would always decline.

[@thecandlemaker1329]

The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Comes with the territory of being a big evil corporation.

[@PlaylistGeneral]

If true, it's simple really. They probably have had one or two people propose this idea, but after crunching the numbers they likely found the potential sales revenue of an up-rez/remaster to be lower than the cost of doing the work.

[@monimoni-v6u]

EA is disgusting

[@vapor404]

How was working for them aside from that experience?

[@kevinmiles5857]

@@vapor404 I worked with them for a couple years on a project. Had a great time and we shipped a great game but, like with every big company, the answer to that question depends on the project, team and studio you work with/for within EA.

[@Kaigalinski]

Everybody is talking about American McGee's Alice and I can't complain at all

[@lilwyvern4]

Him and Gmanlives. Who else?

[@AquaShibby3000]

@@lilwyvern4 grimbeard

[@Raatokalle]

Yeah, noticed that too. What is this.

[@panelsofDOOM]

@@AquaShibby3000 love me some grimbeard. his video on madness returns is excellent.

[@RetroDeathReviews666]

@@lilwyvern4 I made a detailed review thing on it last year for Halloween

[@Laxhoop]

I was hoping Tim Burton’s Alice would be like this game. It was not.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Oh, and it could've been. Got all the weird spooky stuff he likes to put in his movies.

[@cartooncritique6625]

Considering it was a Disney production, I assume Disney kept the man on a short leash when it came to the weird creephow stuff.

[@Laxhoop]

@@cartooncritique6625 Except Disney were the ones who gave him free reign with other movies he’s made.

[@The_Crimson_Fucker]

@@Laxhoop Yes but I'm not so sure how well Disney would have taken a story which reflects some kind of mind-bending dissociative episode in response to intense childhood trauma. For fuck's sake, Madness Returns is about psychiatric child sexual abuse. That said, Burton ran out of steam decade ago and repeat viewings of many of his films have made me think that much of the fanfare around him is entirely due to them being "baby's first goth-thing".

[@Laneous14]

It was like a modern Tim Burton movie. Which is to say, really bad.

[@DetectivePoofPoof]

"This would have given me nightmares if I'd played it as a child." - Having played it as a child when it came out... Can confirm.

[@violenceisfun]

The wights in the floating castle traumatized me.

[@brpadington]

It gave me nightmares as an adult so I am not surprised.

[@finkamain1621]

Doom 64 was my childhood game and I'm shut off my bedroom lights and run up my bunk-bed ladder to not get eaten by a pinky

[@brpadington]

@@finkamain1621 Doom64 is an underrated classic. Great game. A lot of people thought it was just regular doom. Once I tried it I loved it.

[@TaoScribble]

**That moment when you already have dreams like this, and those are considered the good ones.** Then again, all my nightmares are always about mundane, everyday crap. Maybe I need drugs.

[@danielja1832]

Remember to Thank Katie for including music credits over the video. Games soundtrack deserves all the praise it gets.

[@thevgmlover]

Thank you, Katie. ^-^

[@acolytetojippity]

what was playing during the bathtub bit?

[@TrinityPayne]

Thanks Katie! (Chris Vrenna composed this soundtrack. He's the former keyboardist for Nine Inch Nails)

[@mr.crowley64]

@@acolytetojippity white rabbit by Jefferson airplane

[@hiddenshadow2105]

Thank you, Katie

[@siralcatraz9049]

Unfortunately, as of April 2023, American McGee has retired from game development to focus on his family. And EA decided to refuse McGee's offer for "Alice: Asylum". They're also keeping the copyright to the Alice series if you were on the fence about hating that absolute abomination of a game company.

[@RKroese]

EA must burn. Send in the indie devs!

[@JayHitcher]

At least the Plushie Dreadfuls company he runs with his wife nowadays is pretty sweet. Like Alice, it's a concept that seems corny at first, but they apply the effort, empathy, and attention to detail that makes it work.

[@BloodmoonKingdom]

Beautiful pirate bastard.

[@CrashHeadroom]

Proving once more its NOT about your talent, creativity or skill... its about taking orders and sticking to the script you are handed by those above. You are NEVER going to have games like that aanymore, all the minds that could have made them are gone.... and no one fought for them.

[@theninjamaster67]

@@CrashHeadroom What the hell do you think anyone could have possibly done to "fight for them" most of these talented developers decided to sell their soul to the devil (EA and Activision) as consumers there's nothing we could have possibly done especially because once EA or Activision devour something they turn it into a shell of it's former self like just look at what the Sims has become under EA. If anyone is to be blaimed it's these small talented developers thinking that "hey ya know what things will be smooth sailing if we sell the company to this publisher and we'll totallllyyyyyyy still have creative freedom". It's like every dev utters those words before being thrown into the Call of Duty mines or the Need for Speed dungeon to slave away at a creatively bankrupt shell of it's former self that used to be good on the PS2 (this could be said about both Need for Speed and Call of Duty) for the rest of their horrible working careers.

[@jcwalker722]

It’s weird seeing a sewer level without the count.

[@BitestheStuff]

We might have to start a swamp count. Just as long as Civvie avoids doing a video on Hunt.

[@donovanphillips6278]

I think it’s because of Redneck Rampage which broke the count with its sewer level.

[@Cyrielx2]

It's been weird for several videos now.

[@OhNoTheFace]

He tired of his joke

[@garygarypov5060]

@@OhNoTheFace He was tired of the joke in 2018.

[@Megatog615]

"these tentacles are somehow doin' this" 'deformVertexes bulge' is actually a standard feature of Quake 3's shader system. It's used in at least one of Quake 3's maps. It's just not used very often because it's CPU intensive.

[@johnsimon8457]

In the days before hardware geometry shaders…

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

What better than firing up your Voodoo card with a massively oversized CPU and doing all the quake 3 engine games.

[@Megatog615]

@@HappyBeezerStudios Carmack became dissolutioned by OpenGL in the late 90's because of vendors' terrible and inconsistent support for advanced features. Quake 3 uses only a base subset of OpenGL 1.4; its most important feature being multitexturing. Much of Quake 3's effects are software-driven, so a hefty CPU would actually be a great piece of hardware if you wanted to play it. You just needed an OpenGL-capable graphics card that could put frames on the screen really fast.

[@TehBurek]

@@johnsimon8457 This would probably be done in a vertex shader. Geometry shaders are used when GPU itself needs to emit new vertices from a shader program. If you're deforming existing ones, that's usually a good ol' vertex shader.

[@Crixer234]

@@Megatog615 That explains why probably developers preferred DirectX over OpenGL.

[@jasonmoyer]

"The problem with making a dark and disturbing version of Alice in Wonderland is that it's pretty dark and disturbing to begin with, which gives it little training wheels that help cultural firebrands ride it into geniusdom once every eighteen months or so. Masterminding a trippy reinterpretation of Lewis Carroll is like making a version of Crazy Traxi, only crazy!"

[@cartooncritique6625]

And yet there are some people who will still complain that we're taking a beloved children's story and making it dark. XD

[@AllardRT]

I dunno. I just reread it today and it's neither dark nor disturbing.

[@rancid7182]

@@cartooncritique6625 What company or studio do you work for? Also what type of media do you create, like are you taking these stories and turning them into a fucked up film?

[@Jakob_The_Stoic_Norseman]

@@rancid7182 Ssssh, that is behind-the-scenes talk

[@Everik-ct6pg]

This game does feel like a darker interpretation of those stories, but not too much darker. Hell, it even has a happy ending that feels straight out of a fairytale, which i think enhances the experience.

[@KnifeplayShawty]

So happy Civvie referenced John Romero's "Hi Sandy, hope you're doing well. This is actually incorrect." tweets. I don't know why they're so funny to me

[@Keleva]

Sandy getting dunked always makes me smile

[@SpielkindFR]

@@Keleva I stubled across Sandy's youtube channel the other day, and its like an incoherent trainwreck.

[@claudiolluberes111]

@@Keleva Why? What he do?

[@hodgepodge6579]

Sandy's youtube is certainly a rough watch but we do know that willits is a douche that many former id devs detests.

[@MyScorpion42]

@@claudiolluberes111 He's got very strong "angry old man" energy. He's not detestable, just kind of a bummer

[@Bigngreen]

EA: * shoots American McGee's Alice* EA: why would piracy do this?

[@LangstonDev]

Why y'all booin, I'm right

[@blizzardjakkal1716]

There is actually find Blunderbuss near Humpty Dumpty in Caterpillar's Plot revisit. If you found it here, before the end fight, it takes less rounds to kill the Red Queen.

[@xotl2780]

Like getting Zeros blaster in Mega Man X.

[@zigfaust]

@@xotl2780 Fuck Zero's Blaster, Hadouken is just as obscure to get but way more powerful and you can acquire it after only 2-4 stages.

[@hayato1886]

@@zigfaust Mate, hadouken can only be obtained by beating all 8 mavericks, getting all 4 armor upgrades, getting all 8 health upgrades and getting all 4 subtanks

[@nogoodgreen3274]

The rant about EAs sacrificial practices is the best thing ever put on KZbin. Thank you for not ever holding back Civvie.

[@expendableround6186]

Raycevick would be proud.

[@symbiote1982pk]

He went pretty easy on them considering how many great studios they nuked.

[@Rountree1985]

It was funny but it wasn’t that funny.

[@planescaped]

It was really just a statement of facts minus the ritual sadism.

[@DR3ADER1]

There's just one little problem though: Rouge was never part of the EA umbrella, they were independently operated. They collapsed after the game flopped commercially and were unable to secure a publisher for other projects (EA owned the Alice IP for several decades until McGee finagled the rights back, but not the studios who made the games).

[@Midgert89]

It's the kind of intresting, creative and stylistic game John Romero wishes he'd made. American McGee is probably the most underrated Id guy after maybe Sandy Petersen when it comes to leveldesign.

[@aldebaran2643]

Perhaps. Don't ask Sandy about his opinion on piracy though.

[@BSPNode]

@@aldebaran2643 but what is his opinion? I have to know now!

[@boomerkobold3943]

@@BSPNode same

[@pangoprime8674]

@@BSPNode its on Sandy’s channel, i dont know exactly which video but its one of the “Tales of the ID days” videos and its not so bad. Sandy seems like a very cool dude, chill and always up for a chat. Highly recommend his channel Sandy of Cthulu.

[@Kevin-jb2pv]

Idk if he's really underrated, his name is part of the damn title.

[@brianriff8550]

Man, I remember always thinking Alice looked REALLY edgy and try-hard every time I saw footage or screenshots of it, especially the "ooooh she's craAaAAAazy" angle, but looking at it now it's honestly kinda cool. It's a neat spin on Wonderland as an active mental safe space for Alice that gets turbo fucked-up after a traumatic experience, and it's neat to think that not even her silly fantasy world could be safe after something that scarring. To portray the game world as Alice actively taking back her mind and finding the strength to forgive herself is kinda cool. And like you said, while it should be cringy as hell in theory, the execution saves the concept and elevates it to a fun, horror twist on the original story that's FAR more Burton than the real Burton take on Alice in Wonderland. Kinda sad rlly how badly Tim fucked that up

[@noop9k]

The dialogue doesn't feel cringey if the game's good :)

[@Everik-ct6pg]

Yeah, it sucks that the superficial parts of the experience made people think Alice was one of _those_ crazy girls. You know, the ones who have voices in their heads and then lick up the blood on their knife. There's a lot more subtlety and cleverness to this game than people give it credit for.

[@Sgt_Glory]

I was in grade school when the game came out and I thought the exact same thing from looking at the box art. My Dad promised to buy me one game that day and I chose something else. What's telling is that I don't remember what we actually bought that day, just me standing in the aisle at Future Shop looking at the box art lol.

[@lukaszzylik4437]

I pretty much wrote off Alice for the same reason you did. Since then I've heard nothing but good things about both games.

[@JillLulamoon]

I agree and thank you for putting my feelings into words lol. I really, really love the two Alice games. I think the ending is really inspiring, where Alice is released from the asylum and ready to live again. Admittedly the sequel dims it a bit cause she lives in industrial London but shes still living at least. The Jabberwocky boss fight is one of my favorites. I love how he's supposed to represent her guilt about the fire, even if it really wasnt her fault, she still feels it is. I really enjoy the personality they give Alice. She's got a bitter, deadpan sense of humor which I really appreciate that helps keep it from being too edgy. And I appreciate how her casual indifference to the suffering of others is a bit of a plot point in the sequel. I love those two games a ton if that's not obvious lol.

[@TheMC1102]

It's alright Civvie, I also felt sick when I had to install Origin just to play Titanfall 2.

[@DigitalFulcrum]

Can that game even be played anymore? You join a match and instant DDoS

[@darkomihajlovski3135]

@ZeroClimatic there working on apex legends

[@SahiPie]

@ZeroClimatic lol haven’t really heard a “Respawn bad” take before

[@lutherheggs451]

Why cause your one of those special people that gets butthurt over what launcher you have to open.....Its a launcher....

[@wingedfish1175]

@@lutherheggs451 look man I'm apt to agree I was never fussed by the whole epic launcher debacle the issue is origin is just a bad launcher with a relatively small list of exclusives making it's necessity annoying

[@GeekMasterGames]

A masterpiece of design and style. Was wondering if you'd tackle this one.

[@danielja1832]

@thx your mom

[@ziscer7570]

mommy

[@pearljaime2]

It is and... mommy?

[@Demilich23]

No you weren't?

[@HrvojeGrahovac]

I was thinking about this game as well

[@ADreamingTraveler]

It's amazing how good this game still looks for something from the year 2000. Art style and design go a long way

[@Ribbons0121R121]

"bad map design ideas?" -john carmac, holding his power back in 1998 to not evicerate that man

[@Beanibirb]

4th dimensional breaching death scion John Carmack could see McGee in the future creating this game, and dared not snuff his work out before it was started.

[@Collin255]

Civvie, in all seriousness you've been my favorite KZbinr since I discovered you over a year and a half ago, and I just want to say thanks for all the entertainment and here's to many more years of it. Cheers buddy!

[@InkBleedsDeeper]

ECHO! fkn love this content and the dude seems wholesome af. so many of his episodes are burnt into my mind now >< lol

[@lambda-m1676]

I discovered him 2 years ago. Thanks Civ.

[@ruffusgoodman4137]

He never ceases to amuse me on unexpected ways, everytime finding out just EXACTLY what I wanted before I did. I mean, can you believe this con-fella made a video about my most fav chaos of game during MY BIRTHDAY? I was like "Oh shit, 2021, no b-day party, barely no one will send me regards..." and then BAM! Redneck Rampage full saga + OST bands stories (which I couldn't know at the time I played the game) + references. I mean, how come he can do this, the prison must have one of those time travelling machines from Terminator or something...

[@Lyn685]

R.I.P. Alice. May we see you again one day. And fuck EA.

[@wittletheguy]

"An I had to install origin". This man is the hero none of us deserve.

[@hazukichanx408]

Ah, Origin. Once upon a time they made Ultima... and now, their skin has been peeled off and stretched across a crappy Steam clone nobody asked for, or wanted, or in many cases even allows to exist on their computer if they can help it... Just another vomit-inspiring tale of EA's Ramsey Bolton-esque shenanigans.

[@AlwaysSullied]

"It's all in the reflexes" - Jack Burton *Moments after yeeting a knife*

[@johnnycruelty5195]

reminded me of caleb from blood

[@FlashTheSnowman1]

Had to go back and watch that movie. So damn good!

[@FlawedFabrications]

Seeing this is kinda making me hope Civvie does the Legacy of Kain series.

[@callumpnewland1538]

God kain is so good, it’s been to long

[@callumpnewland1538]

@Charles Hastings VAE VICTIS 🙏👌

[@taltra9922]

Yeah, I would finally get a kick I need to finish it

[@themrfives]

Here's hoping he references Mandalore Gaming if he does the first game.

[@doge-of-venice]

@Charles Hastings Just replying to let you know your comment auto-translates to "good food".

[@JarusDexter]

I am sure that blunderbuss can be found before the fight with the queen, it is somewhat hidden in the beginning of the last level if I remember correctly

[@MOJ1OKO]

It's right after first fight with jabberwock

[@АлександрМиранович-п9с]

I do remember it's somewhere near the Humpty Dumpty. There is a pushable brick in the wall, which will open a dor to the blunderbuss.

[@uhrguhrguhrg]

What. bruh...

[@Jisawbam]

@@АлександрМиранович-п9с Humpty Dumpty will actually point at the wall you can open. It's the only reason I found it.

[@SilencerGDA]

I was beginning to write. Civvie where is Blunderbuss, but yeah I forgot you can get one during final boss fight. Still felt disapointed about it

[@gabrielloko30000]

Watching Civvie having fun and smiling at his reactions Is so wholesome. I mean fucking hell, ir's a game made by an experienced and talented team, and the soundtrack is made by one of the members of NIN WHAT not to like in this game??

[@Madman-bi5bf]

Well it does seem like a difficult game to play

[@huleyn135]

The platforming. General jankiness of its era. Not saying the game isnt good but perfection doesnt exist

[@peppermillers8361]

NiN members? Trent was the only member of his band before Atticus unless that's a joke.

[@thecandlemaker1329]

The maze levels. Fuck them.

[@SpaghettyLuvsU]

@@peppermillers8361 Chris Vrenna played drums for NIN live from 1989-1997, he was part of the "band" in that sense.

[@PinkManGuy]

I cannot imagine how scary John Carmack was when he was firing people out of anger

[@PinkManGuy]

No, really. Smart people are usually really articulate and know how to put in the exact right words just how much contempt they have for you at any moment. Imagine getting verbally destroyed by your boss for sucking at your job, except your boss was eating dictionaries at the age most of us were eating paste.

[@casual_villain]

Legend has it, the room shook and the lights flickered...

[@orxy5316]

Carnal seems like a weird nerd, doubtful he has an spine to do that

[@kamikaze4172]

​@Pink Man He's smart, but according to Civvie, he's also a temporal monster holding the fabric of space and time down with his pinky while he thumbs through code and thos dictionaries. Of course, I can imagine that this is, in part, because the company hit a rough patch at this point. Could take it as it wasn't just him getting chewed out

[@sebastiangorka200]

@@orxy5316 i mean he literally started working out in the hallway to keep an eye on the devs so they keep working and later even tore down the cubicle walls so nobody could hide from him seems like he can be scary if he wants to

[@Skyrilla]

I really miss the pre-mesh era of games. When they went all out, it showed, and it was great.

[@powerfulaura5166]

Can someone please elaborate on the difference between a pre-mesh & mesh polygonal game?

[@Skyrilla]

@@powerfulaura5166 Certainly.

[@crack4184]

@@Skyrilla And......?

[@RandomStuff-fp3gb]

@@Skyrilla as helpful as expected from someone so superficial

[@Skyrilla]

@@RandomStuff-fp3gb Sorry I was just busy, but honestly in all this time one would assume to have done searches on their own...

[@aaronjolley362]

Man I loved this game growing up. My Dad would watch me play and just laugh at the weird creepy characters. It kinda scared me because I was so young but I loved that it connected my Dad and I. Such amazing atmosphere, level designs, and just outright spooky! Love it!

[@johndiaz8905]

I want to say thank you for reminding me of all the times my Dad would play video games he loved and would let me watch and play with him. It reminded me of all the happiness I had being with him. I am man enough to say that it made my eyes water a little. I haven't felt this emotion in nearly 5 or 10 year.

[@aaronjolley362]

@@johndiaz8905 your Dad sounds awesome buddy! Much love.

[@funworldtonight]

The soundtrack for this game is burned into my mind, its awesome. Composed by Chris Vrenna, who was a drummer for NIN as well as working on music for Doom Eternal DLC. This game has a soundtrack like nothing else. Definitely listen to the OST.

[@Grease-Goblin]

29:25 Nice try, Civvie, but you're not sneaking Painkiller past me.

[@garrt8949]

I heard that too lol

[@ccda3324]

I knew that sounded familiar

[@fuze7885]

I thought it sounded familiar, i listened to it again, and recognized it immediately 2nd time around

[@seal7144]

Indeed

[@avatarded5573]

its a rule civvie has with guns specifically dual wield guns if you cant shoot the rythm of pain killer with dual wield guns then they are bad dual wield guns

[@GameplayandTalk]

There were so many great PC games released around this time. Very stiff competition. Alice got somewhat overlooked among the other heavy-hitters, but it's definitely a worthy game from this era.

[@lightninstriker10]

"I feel really stupid giving EA money for a game they don't even wanna acknowledge exists." Well boy doesn't that one sting a little harder now.

[@WhoLover]

What are you referencing?

[@lightninstriker10]

@@WhoLover A couple months ago EA formally denied the greenlight for American McGee to develop the third Alice game, but refuses to sell or otherwise license the IP, citing that it's "very important" to them, somehow.

[@Born...]

@@lightninstriker10 That makes me sick. Once the mongoloids stop buying the awful madden and fifa games, maybe EA will finally be bought out, demolished and absorbed... Just as they have done with so many small studios. The justice will be sweet and Devine.

[@amusingmoose9924]

@@lightninstriker10What makes it worse is that it soured American so much that he’s not interested in doing any more Alice projects even if something does get off the ground.

[@zombieking6611]

Well, theres a lot of game I thought you'd cover. Alice was not one of them. Ever. Well done, Civvie. I love both of the Alice games, even with all their jank.

[@codyvangogh8111]

​@@BaldingSasquatch I like how Civvie can actually teach me something about this game without resorting to awful cutaway gags or discussing every female characters outfit in creepy detail.

[@TheSoulHarvester]

@@BaldingSasquatch I love the idea that Civvie saw Gman's garbage vid & made an entire, much better vid from scratch in the intervening time.

[@christopherstathis4419]

@@codyvangogh8111 You mean,you aren't a fan of random meme references and juvenile "your mom" jokes 😉 Also don't forget, overemphasizing a female character's bust size in the thumbnail!

[@mikeangelo2886]

@@christopherstathis4419 Gman channel is old, like much, MUCH older than Civvies. It was great back in the day and you still can see a shadow of it.

[@christopherstathis4419]

@@mikeangelo2886 Yeah I used to watch him from his early days. His production values have certainly gotten better,but his personality and ego are another story. Though even in his older videos,some of his cringe views would pop out ( couldn't hide his misogyny in the Mirror's Edge review he did).

[@ShamanEffect]

One line I always remember from the Cheshire Cat isn't even in the game itself, but is still recorded in the files, "I can't know everything, pretend you're an ophan. That was rude, you are!" The delivery of that line, Jesus! That was cold!

[@revenile]

One of my favorite touches in the game are the idle animations. Every weapon in the game has at least 3 idle animations that play after a while (She'll put her hand to her waist first). Some of the ones I remember clearly are: Vorpal Blade: Tests the edge, gives a few practice slashes or spins the blade on her fingertip, flips it in the air and catches it. Cards: Does a magic trick by pulling a card from the deck and makes it vanish and reappear, or throws a card in the air where it will either land back in the deck or in her head and she pulls it out. Ice Wand: She'll place it under her arm to check her nails and it will go off behind her (not wasting will), she'll freeze the ground directly in front of her, and test the spot, falling down on her rear. As said I remember there being at least 3 per weapon, and they're really slick. The blunderbuss could have less, I'm not sure, should check into that. Also the demo for the game has an intro exclusive to it, and the trailer that plays at the end is kickass.

[@NickiRusin]

This was one of my favourite games growing up. Pirated it off some shady website, as you do in a post-soviet country, and played it for months (and the sequel as well!). Great to see a video on it!

[@NickiRusin]

@Mialisus we really do be cracking those videogames

[@hkr667]

With stuff increasingly being pulled from platforms or simply (we-have-the-rights-but-we're-too-lazy-to-sell-it) ignored into oblivion, the (post-)soviets have saved my butt many times. If the apocalypse happens, civilization in a hundred years will find a full archive of even the most exotic games on some eastern european servers.

[@uria3679]

I can’t wait to find that comment that uses the “bad guys are actually the good guys and the good guys are actually the bad guys” logic to defend EA

[@CognizantCheddar]

@Mialisus Assuming you're North American or west European, you have much more than zero 'commonality' with east European.

[@ghoulbuster1]

Thanks based Russians for pirating everything so I can play these games!

[@jorgamund07]

Kind of ironic this game is hard to find now. When it was released, copies of it were around _everywhere_ in every game store, for years afterwards. It got to the point where I only picked it up because I figured "they keep selling it, so it has to be good". (it was)

[@Orzorn]

Its funny because I actually didn't buy it for precisely the same reason, but opposite logic. Basically, since it was everywhere, and due to the name "American McGee's Alice" (that someone else in these comments complained and said that putting his name in it actually drove them to avoid the game, thinking it was an egoists project), I thought it was some sort of shovelware game. I wasn't aware at the time that McGee was once part of iD.

[@nickpapatsos1476]

"Intelligent flak cannon" I've heard all I need. Civvie remains the best.

[@ClockworkPhoenix]

29:24 "Its not a gun unless you can pound out the opening of Painkiller with it" ~Civvie (probly not verbatim)

[@DLPChris]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who heard that.

[@dethronedemperor]

@@DLPChris there are dozens of us!

[@Tekh09]

I caught it as it was winding down and had to rewind that bit to make sure, got a nice chuckle out of that callback.

[@Andrix145]

C.R.A.A.S.A.S. Civvies' rule of awesome automatic and semi-automatic shooting

[@timtamthemememan5094]

I believe that was used as a test in the Postal 2 videos to see if your game's duel wielding doesn't suck.

[@ThatDjinn]

To me this game was Heretic 2.2 - has very similar feel to a lot of the gameplay. I love this game as much as H2. Love both very much.

[@adam1984pl]

Heretic 2 is much better.This game makes me bored.

[@BuhBaBiBeBo]

@@adam1984pl Oh well, each to their own lol

[@efxnews4776]

@@adam1984pl well isn't Heretic 2 the prototype for Jedi Knight? As far as know jedi knight has the best lightsaber combat of all star wars games, and it was based on Heretic.

[@ArcturusOTE]

@@efxnews4776 According to the dev that commented on the Heretic 2 vid, it sorta was a prototype for the Jedi Knight combat system

[@JacF6734]

I blame this game and the Coraline film for jumpstarting my love for horror at a young age, and I will always love them for that.

[@alexlindstrom9971]

I don't know why everyone, as a matter of simple decorum and good practice, doesn't list a music track when they begin to play it in a video. Kudos.

[@chadoftoons]

More people in the last 5-10 years on youtube have hired editors or marketing teams to help them create their content and they usually are not in direct contact with the fandom beyond trying to figure out what would get the most views reasonably. Civvie is probably in the unique position of getting to employ a friend who actually cares for these older games and either he or their editor just enjoys OSTs and was thinking the exact same thing you are. I imagine for the bad games this would be quite a bit harder though because people would just care less.

[@Midgert89]

The main track from the OST used in the video is : "American McGee's Alice - 02(28) - Village of the Doomed", you can find it on youtube.

[@Ferro748]

I find it interesting that the explosion sounds in this game are the same as the shooting sound for the .44 Handgun in Soldiers of Fortune made by raven software.

[@ArcturusOTE]

Guess they were sharing the stock sound library

[@dibberz-v1z]

yeah kinda reminds me of the same ambient sound of what sounds like a gun being fired played normal then in reverse in both solider of fortune and the leaked hl2 beta

[@Orzorn]

Wow, the graphics and visual design of this game actually blow me away. That underwater section with the lights coming through the broken ceiling, the bubble particles, etc is just awesome.

[@juliusc.8711]

You know this makes me think that i wouldn't mind seeing Civvie play the old 3D Castlevania games.

[@dalton2k538]

Uhhh, which old 3D Castlevania games? N64 or PS2? Neither are very similar to Alice. N64 ones are based on Tomb Raider, PS2 ones on Devil May Cry.

[@zigfaust]

@@dalton2k538 There are, but they ALL use Daz3D models. There is absolutely no one doing it from scratch and I wanna bank on that. also gives me better creative edge since I can edit my own models and simulate water/slime/etc. just have been on the edge about commiting to it till now

[@georgeoldsterd8994]

You just wanna see him suffer, don't you?

[@ChaFairchild]

The finally level is exactly like Half Life. Some eldrich horror, in a space void with floating platforms and having to circle around collecting health packs and ammo for your projectile based weapon to defeat it. Wow.

[@CheeseOfMasters]

Well that usually comes with the territory of eldritch horror

[@NickiRusin]

Scared the shit out of me as a kid.

[@orangeboi3387]

even down to the big fuckoff ghostbusters laser my god

[@CegeRoles]

I heard a story once that American McGee got chewed out by John Carmack because he praised Half Life while they were developing Quake 2.

[@thecandlemaker1329]

Sandy approves.

[@CorgiHorgi]

Just in case anyone missed the news, the 3rd Alice game's funding has been rejected by EA and they are not willing to sell or license it either.

[@-Raylight]

*"Katie find a picture of him without a whip so it isn't weird"* Katie : **puts on the picture of Master Igarashi with a whip anyway* What a gangsta lol 28:31 Yep this game could make any children cry non stop. It's perfect xD

[@ferdinand12390]

Katie is a madwoman alright

[@phantomspaceman]

It's because he's dressed like Dracula in all his other pictures.

[@redenginner]

Civvie knows about Romero passive aggressively trolling Sandy when he fucks up doom facts lmao!

[@Skios]

I played through this game once. In spite of the fact that I had a bug in the UI where the Sanity and Will bars were centred on the screen I still finished it. Which probably says quite a bit of how good it was.

[@Evilpacman234]

I remember when I was little my brother got this and Clive Barker's Undying in a dual package. I didn't make it too far in Undying but I played a TON of this and watching this is bringing up lots of good memories :)

[@evangerthemediamogul1055]

Back when AAA developers could put multiple classic auteurist horror games in a two-pack. Won't see Activision doing this anytime soon.

[@quint3ssent1a]

Undying is also a blast to play.

[@ScrubMyTub]

I loved both of these. Fuckin got both as a kid

[@kylecrofts8740]

I thought Jericho was the only game Clive Barker made.

[@ScrubMyTub]

@@kylecrofts8740 nope. Jericho and undying :)

[@shodancat1000]

That Big Trouble in Little China reference complete with custom-made subtitle was on point.

[@TheFacelessStoryMaker]

I played this back in like 2002=03 when I was 7-8 years old. The idea of a dark gothic twisted version of Alice in Wonderland amazed me as a kid and still does. Chesire Cat has my favorite VA of the game by far.

[@Chozo_Ghost]

Alice: "I'll-tempered, smokes too much, disagreeable smell" Civvie: "I feel attacked!"

[@TheDeadmandillon]

It's hard to believe how Cheshire Cat sounds pretty close to Garrett from the OG Thief game you did a pro series on... do correct me if I'm wrong though, I won't hate anybody for it.

[@joshuasears4566]

Sounds similar but Garrett is Stephen Russell who also does a bunch of Skyrim characters and Nick Valentine in FO4.

[@TheDeadmandillon]

Thanks a bunch for clarifying by the way.

[@ZacharyDietze]

"I can't wait to see Alice Asylum!" Yeah uh, about that...

[@TrinityPayne]

I'm so glad you liked this one Civvie. Honestly it's an underrated gem.

[@PhotriusPyrelus]

"True words and logic rarely defeat evil intent." Timeless words.

[@quillclock]

what is that from?

[@PhotriusPyrelus]

@@quillclock 25:54

[@quillclock]

hmm I see. I strongly disagree with that message glad civ didn't say it. I wonder what the griffin represented when he wrote that.

[@awakeandwatching953]

@@quillclocknaa i agree with the statement, more often than not it requires action

[@quillclock]

@@awakeandwatching953 that's cool I just respectfully disagree. evil intent and evil action are 2 completely different things. they both require intervention. words for words or thoughts. And action for actions. but thats like just my opinion man.

[@linkeffect82]

Amazing! This is the only crazy game I know where I can seriously state that I'll be killing an "Eldritch Guilt Cancer" inside of my character's head and have it be true. Great review as always Civvie!

[@aionarkhe5260]

It's amazing what we took for granted back then. Back then, this was honestly just another game. Who knew that things would get so samey and boring in the future that we'd be looking back on games and movies from this era as masterpieces.

[@christopherstathis4419]

That era before big budget videos games became obsessed with realistic graphics. Bless the indie scene for keeping this style alive.

[@finkamain1621]

@@christopherstathis4419 Minus the walking simulators and visual novels

[@hoodedman6579]

What are you talking about, there were always great games and plenty of overly samey derivative garbage; I don't see how anything has really changed overall, aside from there being more games.

[@hoodedman6579]

@@christopherstathis4419 And what are you talking about? What indie game looks like this?

[@badfourlife]

@@hoodedman6579 dusk

[@mischiefjackal7115]

I'm glad this game is getting more attention this and madness are just a joy to experience!

[@captainhands3558]

Alice was packaged with Clive barker's undying, which was also a great game. Hours and hours of fun with both of those games. Ridiculously underrated. I even have a tattoo of the Cheshire cat from American McGee's Alice because of my fond memories of it.

[@kiros2032]

25:36 "It's all in the reflexes" Gotta love a Kurt Russel reference

[@valerijmorozov3621]

MDK, American McGee's Alice, Rune, this is my "Bible" of third person games. Heavy Metal F.A.K.K. 2 flew under my radar, is it any good? I believe it is.

[@WinterElectro]

heavy metal fakk 2 is a great game but the platforming isn't so great, i still heavily recommend it if you can get ahold of a copy of the game (just pirate it)

[@emulation2369]

Blade of darkness was my sht

[@valerijmorozov3621]

@@emulation2369 Yeah. Completed Severance back in the day with all characters, the game is an endurance test for the nerves, fucking Hardcore. Loved it.

[@Annokh]

@@emulation2369 Yeah, I remember that one. It was pretty unusual for me to get into its controls after years of playing other games (which used mouse-look instead), but it was pretty fun. This is probably the game which made me challenge myself more when it comes to gaming :P

[@Buli0n]

Drakan?

[@begottenbaker]

Honestly, the only weapons I really used while playing this game were the knife, ice wand, and eye staff. Once you get the ice wand, you're pretty much overpowered enough to make quick work of most enemies. I'd still tend to use the knife when dealing with enemies that were further away, since it could handle most within 1-2 hits. The eye staff was basically a stronger long-ranged ice wand, which made it pretty much pointless to use anything else once I obtained it. I played the game on normal difficulty though, so can't say if this is a good way to play on a higher difficulty level.

[@ashdoglsu]

"Throw a knife in their face" If any game could be a great remaster or a remake this is it.

[@LordLicoriceDerp]

This was way too good and wholesome (almost directly in contrast to the tone of the game). I'm going to have to go back and watch The Mudbuttening to compensate.

[@expendableround6186]

"Mudbuttening" Quality joke.

[@bronyhub]

Now that you've made the mention of Psychonauts, I really hope you do a review/pro playthrough at some point; still one of my all-time favorites.

[@GuyXVIII]

2 decades had to pass just for me to realize how unique, twisted, and full of charm this was. Levels and dialog lines that stuck with me until now, and a take on mental illness you can only get as an adult. Glad you reminded me of it!

[@Alpha___00]

One of best games ever and best reimagining of the story (or at least classical stories in gaming) ever. I still have Cheshire screensaver for my desktop.

[@AxiomofDiscord]

He is my sign in screen

[@ravenoferin500]

The amount of times the sound track of this game has kept me alert and awake during a night shift gives me eternal gratitude to the creators. Madness Returns as well.

[@phunkym8]

wow everyone mentioning gman but nobody gives grim beard some love even though he dove the deepest into these games

[@arthurbarros5189]

This comment section Is the First Time In ever Heard about him. You're the Third comment I saw

[@jakejutras5420]

Because Gman is for the plebs and Grim is for the enlightened goth gamer nation damnit.

[@christopherstathis4419]

I've never heard of him! So I guess gotta give his stuff a watch now.

[@-Zakhiel-]

Grim is great. Also Noah caldwell gervais made a long video on both Alice games.

[@travistotle]

@@jakejutras5420 Gman's videos are pretty entertaining in all honesty, but once you realize he says "kinda" like every other sentence you just can't un-hear it.

[@FarmedRice]

Hey Civvie, idk if you will ever see this but PLEASE do a video on Monolith's Tron 2.0. One of my favourite games growing up and you rarely see anyone talk about it.

[@zigfaust]

OMFG. Tron 2.0 is SO UNDERRATED. I still remember the goosebumps and anxiety I felt during the "System Reboot" level seeing the world slowly turn red and progs getting derezzed as you try to escape it. And the upgrade system was so damn ahead of it's time. Civvie 100% MUST do that game at some point.

[@Smoke39]

Tron 2.0 is a real gem. It made such full and creative use of its setting. Monolith was so great back then, I miss them. ):

[@reviewyourownadventure2083]

I swear, every single old school game I absolutely loved always had Looking Glass employees involved somehow. Also, the amount of talent and creativity that went into this game is amazing.

[@aorbjakes]

Crazy how you and GMan had videos on this so close together! This game rules

[@ganjaman59650]

@thx Nobody care about your delusion.

[@zakmccracken]

Maybe they`re in the same Network.

[@raresmacovei8382]

Eh, they both missed the 20 year anniversary opportunity, so they're doing it now. Especially with rumours of Alice 3 AND how another famous game author is releasing the long awaited sequel to the original cult favorite, Psychonauts, this month. Seems appropriate really

[@lukegonzalez4893]

Same with GrimBeard Diaries. So, kinda strange to see this game pop up 3 times out of nowhere. Now I just need to see MandaloreGaming do it for 4 in a row.

[@simondaniel4028]

@@lukegonzalez4893 Ayooooo Grim Beard!

[@UnrealPerson]

I wonder if The Forges from _Amid Evil_ has been inspired by this game. Even the soundtrack of one of the levels sounds like Chris Vrenna's work in this.

[@HueyStinkFinger]

I genuinely loved this game when I was a kid. I'm glad it's getting more exposure because you can tell it was made with a ton of passion.

[@dentonas2173]

One of my favorite games, very unique, and the soundtrack is so creepy and calming at the same time.

[@AragarVarnus]

I love it how my favorite Shooter KZbinrs (Civvie 11, Icarusliv3s and GmanLives) often comment about the same games nowadays, I like seeing the take of each one of them. Nostalgia trip times three.

[@simondaniel4028]

Grim Beard has left the chat

[@AragarVarnus]

@@simondaniel4028 I don't know that one but now I'm curious, I also forgot to mention Ross from Accursed Farms! Shame on me xD

[@poloski44]

I was going to comment something like that when saw your post, have my upvote instead

[@FuzzyFiend]

​@@AragarVarnus ​ If you decide to check him out try not to switch off immediately - for some reason Grim Beard loves to make his intros shitty on purpose.

[@Tekisasubakani]

It's all a vast conspiracy...to provide fantastic entertainment.

[@wsnt]

Man, I remember playing this as a kid and the ending was satisfying and straight to the point. Gameplay and style itself freaked me the hell out and still does, that one scene where Chester gets killed made me scared as a kid lol. Great seeing Alice is still being talked about especially knowing there’s a new one coming soon :)

[@-Raylight]

*"After EA did an EA"* You mean like being a *disEAse,* Civvie? This game still looks really pretty after 21 years. Are you sure this is being made in 2000? Where did games like this go. Is this EA's fault :(

[@CoralCopperHead]

They didn't 'go' anywhere, there's just more crap piled on top of them these days.

[@uria3679]

I can’t wait to find that comment that uses the “bad guys are actually the good guys and the good guys are actually the bad guys” logic to defend EA

[@CognizantCheddar]

@@uria3679 I can't wait to see the third time you've copy-pasted that without it happening.

[@TanukiHime]

I remember having a pirated CD of this game. A cheaply made Russian voiceover made it 10 times more creepier for a little lass like me

[@GreebusBleeb]

berbleeshus!

[@blewrei1366]

Do you have any footage of it? Sounds cool

[@FireTalon24]

Chie is a good choice in PFP. Also Russian makes almost anything creepier. Or goofier.

[@TanukiHime]

@@FireTalon24 there is a good voice overs in Russia, but it's all made by professional teams that were created much later. Back there there were almost zero teams who could do a good voice acting so it all been made "in-house" by the same people who pirated those games. It was especially prominent on PS-1 games. Ps. Chie is THE best girl

[@TanukiHime]

@@blewrei1366 you can check it in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZoHGZqWppLuWlZY The one that I had was made by "Триада"

[@Jack_in_the_Nox]

watching this in April 2023 knowing Alice Asylum will never be... well it hurts.

[@Shiratto]

@Big_BoxNot for EA…

[@Halden.]

Part of me wants “Actionable pun detected” to be written on my tombstone.

[@IUKC]

One of my favourite games of all time - I even bought the Chris Vrenna soundtrack. Thanks for reviewing it Civvie!

[@Murdo_of_Astora]

I appreciate that lil' thing at 29:25 Even if that weapon fires an alarmingly slow bullet. The screams in the game are deff terrifying though.

[@pffpffovich2398]

That's a nice reminder that Judas Priest made Painkiller song.

[@MDK-fo7jw]

Finally, a piece of my childhood has a place in the archives.

[@inkmime]

Having a mentally unstable Alice use weapons that are as a whole generally tricky, kinda impractical, but immensely powerful is honestly pretty fitting and cool

[@cookie842]

Would love Gore Verbinski to do a movie of Alice; Sounds like a match made in heaven.

[@phatdookie4207]

Never played this game but I always thought that box art looked awesome.