CL 215 Waterbomber Crash Greece 25 July 2023

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Aug 2020 Crash: • CL 215 Water Bomber Cr...
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[@mddah01]

As a volunteer firefighter in Australia can I add my condolences and take a moment to remember the 3 US airmen who died fighting fires in Australia on Jan 23rd 2020 during our 'Black Summer'. They were Captain Ian McBeth, first officer Paul Clyde Hudson, and flight engineer Rick DeMorgan Jr. Their sacrifice has not been forgotten here.

[@robjohnson5872]

Classy.

[@JimMork]

Australia has had crazy fires. Big news.

[@patchmack4469]

i just watched a full documentary the other night about the Australian 'Black Summer' i cried so many times, such a dreadful mess and so many people perished, way too many, and many of them so young - i can't help but say it shouldn't happen its hard to imagine in this day and age with all our tech that not enough information was getting updated for people to see - i wish there was something i could do to help prevent these things going on, maybe one day

[@JimMork]

@@patchmack4469 Australia is one of the least populated land masses in the world. And yet the fires caused loss of life? Aren't Australians just sort of perched in a strip by the sea?

[@MrRem7600]

nice virtue signal sir - well played. Nothing classier riding off the back of someone elses death

[@darrylday30]

I built 415’s for 16 years. The aileron bell-cranks are located in the rear spar, midspan of the ailerons. This puts them a few feet inboard of the float attach points. The clearances between the bellcrank and the spar structure are rather close. If the impact twisted the rear spar enough, it’s possible the bellcrank became jammed. The 415 does have a rudder aileron interconnect system in which the rudder system provides some control input the aileron system. However, the aileron system does not provide input to rudder system. The 215 likely has a similar system.

[@blancolirio]

Thanks Darryl!

[@rumbecker5085]

Are the wing floats designed to sheer off? What type of load would be required to sheer of if it hits the water on a bad scoop attempt? Would it cause damage in that case to the ailerons?

[@darrylday30]

@@rumbecker5085 Primarily designed to shear from a lateral load but I don’t know the numbers.

[@Joey-JoJo-Jr.64]

I forgot to mention the mechanics, engineers, ground crews, tenders and support staff that keep these amazing machines on mission. ❤️

[@andrebello4191]

Based on that I would say its possible for the ailerons to become jammed but not the rudder.

[@athgt6630]

I live in Greece and this accident put a nation into mourning. We have been experiencing devastating wildfires for almost a month. More than 600 fires in the last 10 days. Almost 100 firefighting aircraft in constant operation from dawn to dusk. I can really understand the over zealous approach this crew took, unfortunately mistakes like that aren't forgiving.

[@JimMork]

Very reminiscent of the worst of the pandemic and impact on frontline medical people. My wife had to go to an ER and it was a madnouse.

[@HOWNDOG66]

They really need to look at overworking the crews. They not only lost 2 lives and a plane but started another fire.

[@JimMork]

@@HOWNDOG66 It seems like war. Nobody looks at workload in war. But the best way to control workload is preparation when the fires are not happening.

[@pizzaearthpancakesandother2549]

It is a sad situation, as are all accidental deaths, but out of curiosity, if a car crash kills 2 people in Greece does the country mourn?

[@ozcanertem4861]

So sad to see this happening, neighbour😢. RIP crew.

[@Subgunman]

These pilots were on duty for almost ten hours when this incident occurred, it was also their last scheduled drop for the day. Fatigue is also a prime factor in this accident. It will be interesting to see if investigators have the knowledge to determine if the engine on the affected side was damaged in this strike.

[@BrotherMaynard2112]

Curious about the right engine performance, it looked to me like the aircraft had lost power on the right side. Wings level pitch up to blue line .

[@reekinronald6776]

Good point. Not a pilot, but looking at the video the decent down to the fire just seemed too steep for the terrain. Fatigue and a bit of a rush to finish the day may have made the pilot take a slight risk in delivering the last payload?

[@micropower8]

I think this people there are all over-worked, they do not have enough breaks to rest and regenerate their mind. I do errors too if I am working to long on a row, but I can delete the file and can start new or fix the error at the next day. This people in their planes could possibly use drones in the future to make all the dangerous work.

[@antimimoniakos]

Actually was 3 hours from 11.45 to 14.50. This was the last drop before return to bace.

[@suomenpresidentti]

10 hours. Crazy.

[@grumpy3543]

Look at that yaw to the right Juan. The spray off the belly really shows the angle of yaw. And you can actually see a bit of right rudder as well. I think that you’re right that the controls are jammed.

[@crnkin2]

Maybe jammed, maybe the PIC moved in his seat?

[@blancolirio]

Yep...

[@ricardokowalski1579]

Consider the wind moving the smoke uphill, right to left. The right wing drops into the turn, the wind cuts the AoA, and then the impact throws the entire airframe into a spin. Not enough speed, not enough altitude, not enough reaction time to recover? Respectfully, your thoughts?

[@donstor1]

I’m sure the crew’s instincts were to try and get those wings back to level. I don’t know how, but it seems that the controls were indeed jammed and no time or altitude to try to overcome. Yea, very sad.

[@MetroplexAerials]

But what would have jammed the rudder? At least one of them needed to stomp the rudder hard left. Don't know what kind of training they go through over there, but too many people flying here in the US are extremely unfamiliar with proper rudder work. I see this frequently teaching tailwheel.

[@jamesmoros1274]

As an Ex Airman in the Greek military airforce 1986(used to re fuel them), my heart bleeds looking at this accident. Routinely the CL215 is used in extremely low altitudes, mistakes happen and lives are lost, it’s one thing being on the ground and commenting and a very different situation flying for hours on end, knowing that what you do is saving lives and in the process your life is in danger. 🇬🇷🇦🇺❤️

[@gerhardlesch3615]

Analysis of accident cause is important.

[@user-nv1gm2zj7y]

id really say this is about experience and fatigue.

[@jeanlapointe8016]

There is absolutely no need to fly at such a low altitude to drop water on any fire. And as said in this video it was a cowboy approach and a poor technique to achieve his work.

[@vyruss000]

RIP - This one hit really close to home because I was stationed at that air base with the firefighting aircraft during the 2007 Greek forest fires, when we lost two more pilots. Greece's terrain is very vertically challenging and forests are so close to inhabited areas that pilots regularly dive down to 30-40 feet to make the drops effective, fearing loss of life if the fire is uncontrolled.

[@petermarsh5762]

Flew both 215 & 415’s for 35 years Juan your analysis is spot on. The 215 impacts the ground 5 seconds after the float gets bashed off. 5 seconds attention was not focused on flying the aircraft. My condolences to their family friends & colleagues.

[@theHDRflightdeck]

How about the aileron to rudder interconnect that Juan is talking about? Could that have played a factor in the absent control inputs?

[@petermarsh5762]

@@theHDRflightdeck in this case I don’t believe so. The 215 doesn’t have hydraulically powered flight controls like the 415 or 215T.

[@rolandcanacolo6870]

it does appear that the leading edge ahead of the aileron looks heavily damaged Thus loss of airflow over the aileron Which I dont think it would matter at this time during the event they only had a couple of seconds they were in a bad situation

[@shanebrennan4657]

Do you think possibly that the crew were looking at the wing/ back to see the damage to the aircraft? 5 seconds doesn't seem a long time when looking for damage and assessing, but 5 seconds in this situation is all it took for them to loose focus of their flight path and crash?

[@rolandcanacolo6870]

@@shanebrennan4657 hitting a tree in a Gully with rising ground all around them is a disaster in the making if they would of released the load on target they probably would of had a chance they dumped the load too late a mere 1/2 a second would of made a difference in a 5 second event, obvious theses pilots are not professional like WRC Rally car drivers that do the same speeds as a CL215 water bomber the crew knew it was there last bomb run after punching there bomb load too late we in Canada dont operate these machines like the Euros we have a safety system in place You do not drop a load without Authority from a spotter Plane the Air attack officer in the Bird dog gives you permission and they have done a real simulation practice with there aircraft before you go in to drop the load this is done with Military Precision and of course it is not military in Canada that performs water Bombing

[@Blowinshiddup]

I've seen too many clips of tanker pilots seemingly "Hotdogging", flying too low, banking too hard and taking wild chances. It catches up to you eventually. "There are old pilots and bold pilots, but not many old bold pilots"

[@Smannellites]

Thank you Juan for a very clear and very respectful explanation of this tragedy. Condolences to the crew who were killed trying to protect their homeland.

[@daftDAFdriver]

This is a terrible tragedy, Juan, u critically analyzed this crash with such professionalism, RIP to the family’s of those pilots who’s efforts will be always remembered. Hindsight is 20/20 vision

[@zyrrhos]

Can you name one tragedy that isn't terrible?

[@DocNo27]

@@zyrrhos Did that make you feel good? Was that dopamine hit worth being an ass?

[@perwestermark8920]

​@@zyrrhosI can at least mention one post not being meaningful...

[@zyrrhos]

@@perwestermark8920 Make that two, three if you count this one.

[@daftDAFdriver]

@@zyrrhos what’s your point mate

[@xray111xxx]

I am so saddened of the loss of the crew fighting this fire. Mistakes were made sure, but for the cause, they are heroes. I am sure many will skewer them. Not me. Tragic. My condolences to their families. Thanks as always for your professional reporting Juan.

[@MichaelOfRohan]

I bet their families wish theyd just stayed home and let the world burn.. the sacrefice at this point isnt for the fire its for accident prevention. If nobody dies nobody listens.

[@Breznak]

Couldn't have said it better!

[@thurin84]

any mistakes they may have made have certainly already been payed for. lets remember what they were trying to do; put a fire out and save peoples homes and lives.

[@Rutherford_Inchworm_III]

"I am sure many will skewer them. Not me." Not sure I understand your tone. Nobody's trying to "skewer" anybody. Ruthless post-fatality analysis is how you save lives in the future. Tears don't bring back the dead.

[@bendietrees]

@@MichaelOfRohanthey will come to understand in time we all must die

[@johnnorth9355]

I can remember driving cars like this when I was young until an incident proved to me that I was not smart or invincible.

[@therefused1]

modern cars today give a false sense of security, sitting at 140mph feels like 70 in an older car, untill a tyre blows out and your in the central reservation, hindsight is a funny thing

[@Relkond]

I can remember getting rear-ended by someone who drove like this when I was younger. Can even confirm - the driver was neither smart nor invincible.

[@tissuepaper9962]

​@@therefused1TBF, suspension, brakes, and general stability of a modern car are like a spaceship compared to those older cars.

[@Firestorm637]

Good point about dropping in rising terrain

[@AndyFromBeaverton]

He's flying like he lost sight of his drop spot. There's no reason to drop the water over a football field late on the advancing fire.

[@renataavgeri1132]

Again thank you so much for the update. It was devastating news for us

[@MKINDYR107]

So sad. I have been awaiting your expert view on this and your insights are very interesting. Watching the video in real time a few times over shows the sudden change of state/attitude of the aircraft after the tree impact, possibly supporting the aileron- rudder interconnection. We must all be thankfull for these brave pilots who risk their lives in order to save others.

[@PuFFerTV98368]

It’s hard to put a like on a video where two people die. However Juan’s concise and educational explanations are always spot on. I don’t even fly, I got interested in this channel from the destroyed spillway videos and never left. Thanks for the video and I hope the families of the two pilots have the support they need. ✌️💚🖖Everyone

[@andrewmacdonald4833]

Heartbreaking to watch...we're witnessing the end of two men's lives..and they were brave men too.

[@zosoachilles]

Best part about this channel is having widely experienced analysis that asks pertinent questions (some I didn't think of) & solicits input from folks who fly the equipment. This while showing frustration at the outcome, yet does not presuppose to know the actual causal factor.

[@keithnorris6348]

My condolences to the friends and family and thanks again to you Mr Browne for enlightening me as to how such an unhappy situation can come to pass.

[@Fred-rv2tu]

This past Monday a helicopter N482TJ crashed while doing part 133 operations. I used to fly that aircraft and would be interested in what happened. The people I know there are being tight lipped. Pilot survived with serious injuries.

[@yanniskouretas8688]

Hey Juan, thank you for the time invested to present this accident. Furthermore I must say you are the first person (to my knowledge) that touches the matter of the approach and final drop run which in my opinion is a huge contribution to the fatal tree strike. Plus one of the few that noticed the structural damage of the right leading edge possibly causing further damage and jamming the aileron on full deflection. Right now there is much debate in the Hellenic Air Force (HAF) community regarding all the above plus the human factor contribute and weather prevailing (the area of operations is notorious for is high/gusting winds and heavy turbulence. Oh anb by the way I'm active duty HAF warrant officer (tech) and single engine PPL holder... Thanx again....

[@TrondBrgeKrokli]

Thank you for another excellent walk-through of the accident. It is always sad when lives are lost, but doubly so when the ones we lose are fighting fires to save lives, properties, and areas of value.

[@JimMork]

@@buckwheathikes1261 Well, I don't know how wealthy Greeks were who died or were threatened. The pilots certainly were not. As for "areas of value", that could be some poor guy's only home. Speculation. Fire doesn't tend to focus on some economic class, it just burns where it chooses. And has to be put out if possible.

[@JimMork]

@@buckwheathikes1261 I get the point. But do we know anything about the most threatened by this spot fire? If it was mentioned, I missed it. I just assume there was no discussion of the influence of those threatened. Firefighters go fight when fires start. No rich people in my neighborhood, but the trucks come anyway.

[@JimMork]

@@buckwheathikes1261 I'm a believer in insuring my home. Never went without it. But the threats aren't really spot fires. They are hailstorms and falling trees. And rich is almost the diametric opposite of who I am. The home MADE me poor! Had to buy it to realize what a bad idea it can be.

[@JimMork]

@@buckwheathikes1261 Being a homeowner is like owning a car. It takes study to discover how not to be eaten alive by the costs. My brother in northern California got a place in the foothills which has been tolerable for decades. Not like "Paradise California" that was incinerated. No aircraft saved any part of that city.

[@rubenroybal2890]

My condolences to all affected, thanks for the coverage

[@drenk7]

Thank you Jaun for a great technical explanation of a tragic accident . Hopefully the rest of the CL-215 community can learn from this incident.

[@gcrauwels941]

It does look as if the controls weren't free. Curious as to what they'll find. RIP crew. 🙏

[@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity]

You are right on, the float went back and up into the aileron forcing it up more than it already was. It is attached to the last main rib where the outboard aileron hinge is located.

[@countrichardvoncoudenhovek8855]

Greetings from Ireland 🇮🇪,,, thank you for your analysis ,interesting observation about never bombing up hill and about the contents being stored around the centre of gravity a sad loss to all involved 🙏

[@tennesseered586]

As evidenced by the water trail, I see a large sideslip angle indicating a hard yaw to the right. From that alone I suspect the controls were jammed. That's a tough job. RIP, young guys.

[@MetroplexAerials]

Maybe jammed ailerons, but what would have jammed the rudder?

[@SethSutherland]

​@@MetroplexAerials relisten to 6:25 and onward.

[@jeffnelson1961]

Hit the tree….

[@lexluthor6906]

@@SethSutherland jammed opposite? left roll and right rudder

[@SteamCrane]

@@MetroplexAerials Aileron-rudder interconnect.

[@scomo6767]

Back in the 90s I was involved with a bird strike in a Cessna 182 where the bird entered and remained embedded in the leading edge of the right wing, only inches from the aileron cable pulley. If it would have hit where the pulley was located I have no doubt it would have jammed the controls and created an unrecoverable event. I wonder if this is a similar design and the leading edge impact could have compromised the aileron controls...or if the float structure still attached to the arcraft may have been bent back enough to interfere with the aileron...

[@captaintoyota3171]

Allmost bet $ on it

[@d.t.4523]

Thank you Juan. My condolences to the pilots families.

[@IamSteady1]

I agree Juan. All the points you made is what I thought of watching this. As well, another factor may be that Greece allows "lone wolfing", that is they don't utilize a birddog or a lead plane. So many things went wrong here. Rest in peace brothers.

[@moemanncann895]

Respect for the crew members, condolences to their families 😢

[@Soggytiri]

Sad loss of life. Thanks Juan for your explanation of this tragic event. Will be interesting to see the results of the investigation and whether fleet age and training comes under scrutiny. It’s difficult but essential for crew not to be caught up by the drama of the fire, and it could perhaps explain contributing factors.

[@415Bombardier]

Great analysis, Juan. I'm fully agree. Congratulations from Canadair Flight Safety Officer here in Spain, operator of 18 Canadairs. Best regards.

[@JonCox-fn3hn]

So Tragic! Prayers for the Families! RIP 😪😪🙏🙏🙏🙏 Thank you Juan for such a professional review, I do hope crews learn from this tragedy! 👍👍

[@markcoveryourassets]

Thank you for the analysis. Looks like the aircraft was right yawing near the end, too. May the families and friends of these men find peace in their loss. That looks like very difficult flying.

[@scottstewart7159]

Thank you for getting right to the point of the very low and unstable drop. I believe your assessment of target fixation is spot on. Scoopers are capable of so many drops in a fuel cycle and a judgement drift can be very insidious when you are banging away on the same target for multiple drops. Add to that the state of emergency, the pressure they were under and a long duty day, they must have been exhausted. Such a tragedy to lose these aerial firefighters.

[@BobHannent]

There's also an issue that the ambient temperatures are very high, as I understand it, there are issues with the water evaporating too early and not being effective. There has been some discussion in Greece about how these Canadair aircraft aren't as useful as the AT-802 because of this.

[@ceedee9186]

During that day there where at least 3 major fires around here Greece. They took off just before sunrise. They where tired for sure because all the previous days before the incident aerial firefighters where getting redirected to multiple locations every day. It was chaos here all week. Local sources say that the controls where jammed after the aircraft struck the tree. I watched it live as it happened.

[@AvStevieStevenJamesDrums]

Peace, be still for the pilots, family and friends 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@andrewjackson5127]

They also looked like they were a little late on the drop too, so it was an unstable approach.

[@brenodomingues5179]

Fatigue

[@vladodomi8091]

That was my first tought when I saw video.

[@richardschindler8822]

So sad these two young men lost there lives trying to put out those fires. My condolences go out to the families of those two brave men. As usual Juan, your spot on, thank you.

[@grandpajim329]

THANKS JUAN for your coverage!!!! 😍😍😍😍😍

[@Whatsinanameanyway13]

Sad to see this kind of accident. Thank you for your detailed analysis, hopefully the lessons learned can prevent further crashes.

[@JBHRN]

I initially thought this to be an approach turn (accelerated) stall but agree that on closer inspect the surfaces were still flying. It seems that it would be easy to become too comfortable with a low approach like this, you do it a few times and get away with it until that one time arrives. I would like to know what the standardization process for these crews. Tragic loss and my condolences to the families and crews. Thank you for your professionalism Juan.

[@57Jimmy]

I was patiently waiting for Juan to get back home and provide his commentary. Thanks again Juan for explaining what possibly could have gone wrong. And as usual there is no reason for a perfectly operational aircraft to be flown into the ground other than due to ‘cowboy’ piloting.😢

[@NicolaW72]

Thank you very much for this very detailed and plausible analysis of another horrible accident of a Waterbomber. My Condolences to the Families and Friends of the Deceased.

[@jims6450]

It looks like he had the left aileron was up shortly following the collision and the right aileron was also up, most likely jammed in that position from the impact with the trees. Shadows also confirm the left aileron was still up just prior to final impact. Great report, Juan. Thanks again for your service!

[@fathertorque4504]

that's because to dump they use one notch of flaps and makes it look like both ailerons are up.

[@robertlafnear7034]

WOW..... You might have nailed it Juan....Tree strike Damage they could not overcome🤔... Prayers for them and their families, may they R.I.P.🙏

[@MrSlim1959]

You pointed out something that no news channel covered and that is that he hit the tree.

[@nicolad8822]

It was one of the first things they said?

[@northgateaviation]

Good morning Juan, another very sad loss. Thanks for the concise debrief.

[@danschreck834]

Always great coverage, I hope pilots pay attention, good job Juan!

[@2011blueman]

Every since I watched the show Ice Pilots and Buffalo was selling these old CL-215 waterbombers to Turkey I've worried about bombers in Europe. They don't seem to get nearly the amount of training necessary.

[@josephbuckley1574]

Seems that it may have damaged the starboard aileron on impact with the tree - there appears to be an inability to roll to port after the impact.

[@ralphjohnson4041]

Right aileron looked up throughout. Jammed?

[@merkin22]

Again, such great content, sir! Thank you. May the airmen rest in peace!

[@derekdee9592]

Best explanation of this accident on Rhodes island, gut feeling is fire crews & flyers are totally overwhelmed by these wildfires going on for so long. Rip to the Greek airforce crew.

[@Glidedon]

The plane is making the drop in the Lee of that rising terrain. They could have encountered sinking air hindering the climb out, causing the impact with the tree. RIP the brave pilots.

[@kittonsmitton]

Condolences to the family, friends and colleagues of these two brave heroes.

[@AndreasMake]

As usual, very informative and interesting learning for the rest of us. Thanks for sharing

[@jacopofbargellini4005]

Thank you for the explanation, at first glance on the news i thought it was a stall problem but now everything is clear

[@smark1180]

I would like to hear your take on the Allegiant Air A320 & Gulfstream "near-miss" incident. Upon viewing the radar tracks it doesn't seem so bad.

[@ozcanertem4861]

Thanks Juan. I believe left aileron up is visible by its shadow when bank angle is around 90 degrees. While expecting a strong attachment to the wing, I'd think a permanent twist of the wing with float getting an impact load along the flight direction before detaching. If such a twist had happened the angle of incidence would have been dangerously decreased causing a great lift loss on the right. This may end up with a permanent roll that may have been beyond the aileron control power.

[@rolandcanacolo6870]

twist Not going to happen this is a 215 It was built to withstand unimaginable forces It is a Purpose built Waterbomber That went thru rigorus certification The Canadian / Provincial Goververnments of Canada were the the first to Aquire these Machines The 215 aircraft is built like a Tank Eg. Tanker With Mighty PW 2800 radial engines, The Sound Of Round engines doesn't get any better its a Beast

[@lowandslow3939]

Excellent analysis as usual. Thank you Juan.

[@robav8or]

Right after the aircraft collides with the tree it appears to have a significant right-yawing force. Look at the mist as it trails behind and to the right of the longitudinal axis. Asking about an aileron/rudder interconnect system is a reasonable question.

[@Ztbmrc1]

I did not think of the possibility of aileron and rudder jam. That is plausible. The investigators will find out.

[@Mgp-Rc]

There seems to be little or no left rudder input. Which does beg the question of was the Pilot able to give that to the control surface/s or was there something else going on. The approach was aggressive a bit more than usual but the result should not have been this.

[@Ztbmrc1]

@@Mgp-Rc yes, that is what Juan said in this video. A possible jamming up of the controls could indeed have been the cause of this tragic crash.

[@frisk151]

Very interesting questions Captain. I’d like to also know about one failure potentially causing a 2nd one by way of an interconnect.

[@ronaldgadget]

Once again - great analysis... Thank you Juan!

[@skyepilotte11]

Sad for the families of these pilots...rip You're right Juan...too low into rising terrain, clipping the tree and the surprise factor...possibly jammed controls...so sad

[@ronellis8312]

Extremely respectfully explained.

[@theflyingfool]

Very sad. Thanks for the considered and informative analysis Juan.

[@sanderruscigno]

Another well explained video that helps unexperienced pilots like me to better understand flying and also to fly safe... I missed you at EAA AirVenture, I was hoping I would find you there. Take care and keep the blue side up.

[@jarekkot9043]

Watching the whole movie carefully to the end (impossible due to YT policy, but you can find it on the net) you can see the impact of a broken float on blocking or breaking the cables to the right aileron. The right aileron is in the up position, adding a hit to the right wing and very low altitude in rough terrain, resulting in a right wing roll.

[@KennethShort-cl7up]

RIP both brave pilots.

[@gasdive]

Thanks for this. When I saw the video, even knowing the outcome I still felt like they were going to save it. Jammed controls makes so much sense.

[@mlliarm]

Thank you for this review and analysis. It's a real tragedy...

[@billybud9557]

Learn something....save a life, save a plane. As an old pilot I see several serious mistakes here......condolences to families....RIP, but let's all learn from this one. Good vid.

[@nancychace8619]

Thanks for sharing. Always gives pause when someone on the frontline of fighting these nasty fires is in an accident like this. Appreciate the review. Condolences to all family and friends. RIP.

[@bw162]

The outboard hinge of the aileron is directly behind the pylon that supports the float.

[@richb313]

Thanks for reporting this it is tragic when anyone loses their life but what can be learned from it.

[@tumakbaluk]

It looks like there is significant damage to the right outboard leading edge of the wing that becomes visible as the plane goes perpendicular to the camera. 😢

[@whytebearconcepts]

I watched part of Geoff Hunt's crash (Tanker 81) during the Dog Rock Fire near Yosemite in 2014, it was a similar situation where he descended into a steep canyon and struck an object, probably a tree. The impact seemed to cause a failure at the wing fold joint, and the wing was in the act of deforming when it passed out of my view. It impacted a few seconds later.

[@davidmerwin7763]

Thanks Juan. What a terrible loss.

[@CraigArndt]

God Bless their families, very sad.

[@kevinsellsit5584]

It does appear that he wss trying to completely extinguish the fire in one drop. A better plan would be to make drops on the up-hill side and the direction the wind is blowing. There must be more video because the footage shown live TV at the time was different and the wing strike was not clear. Regardless *way to low* Juan, wondering if you were going to discuss Mike Patey's event on the way to Oshkosh. The butter smooth landing speaks volumes but would still like to hear your thoughts.

[@terrallputnam7979]

This crew was doing their job and trying to do it right and what a shame. RIP to the pilots, condolences to the families.

[@deansawich6250]

Thanks. RIP to the pilots, and condolences to their familes. 😢

[@tombolin7168]

Thank you Juan.

[@arshad8170]

Thank you, Juan, for your simple explanation. Rest in peace, both of the deceased pilots. May the Almighty give strength to the families to bear this tragic loss. Both were so young.

[@antimimoniakos]

27 and 34 years old. The first was from Thessaloniki and the second from Chania Crete. The second pilot's wife will deliver their child in six months. Greek parliament "adopted" it which means will provide 15.000 euros per year in next 25 years. Airforce promoted the two fallen pilots in the higher rank of general (antipterarchos in greek).

[@larumpole]

Thanks again for your insight, Juan. I saw the video shortly after this terribly sad event, and thought “Too low, too slow,” but I now realize I was only half right. The absence of any movement in the control surfaces can only mean pilot incapacitation, which is unlikely, or loss of control due to failures in control surface activation, which appears more likely. The cause of this accident was, as you say, an unstable approach to an unsafe altitude. Thoughts and prayers to the families of the aircrew, let’s hope their loss resonates with the other pilots fighting this disaster and maybe saves a few lives.

[@deanpodolsky]

Hey Juan, if you use the < and > keys on your keyboard, you can rewind and fast forward 5 seconds at a time on KZbin. This will be easier than using a mouse in some cases to find the part of the video you want.

[@mikerepairsstuff]

Super coverage Juan. Learned from this video that the aircraft was super vintage and the engines were the radial type... RIP to the Greek fire crew and condolences to their friends and family.

[@em945]

So sad and humbling. Blessings to their families and friends.

[@carlosalbertogarciamartine4150]

Descansen en paz los dos pilotos. Quien da la vida por proteger el legado de las siguientes generaciones es un heroe, en la mejor expresión del termino.

[@markbowles2382]

Amen to that mr.carlos, a truth well said.

[@carlosalbertogarciamartine4150]

@@markbowles2382 Thank you, sir. They were compatriots.

[@CFITOMAHAWK]

@@carlosalbertogarciamartine4150 Eran Griegos, no Espanoles. Duhh. He said the names on the video.

[@alexandernev24]

The piston version has a rudder aileron interconnect on the rh aileron. May explain the rudder deflection. I'm certain they will look into it.

[@MGB-learning]

Great video and presentation.

[@joshridderhoff2050]

Hey Juan! Did you see that the AIB Report for the Oct 2022 F-35A crash at Hill AFB came out this week? Fascinating look at wake turbulence procedures, thought you’d be interested to see it if you hadn’t yet.

[@blancolirio]

Link?

[@Frank-uq1wl]

Thanks for your analysis. We came to the same conclusion but didn'n noticed the damage on the leading edge of the wing. But what we also thought was, that the pilot was menthally "behind" the plane. The late waterdrop is a strong sign to that.

[@austinformedude]

May these Heroes always have blue skies. Another reminder of how unforgiving aviation is. Thanks for the analysis.

[@Turner9090]

I see hard right aileron deflection from before during and after impact with the trees…it looks like to me it never changes?

[@pugle1]

Such a sad loss, though the CL-215 has been replaced by the CL-415, it's sad to lose such a venerable aircraft and its crew. This aircraft is so invaluable at what it does, the loss of it and its crew is such a big blow to Greece's fire fighting capacity. I know many countries including Turkey use the 215, countries that used it's younger brother the 415 do so well with it. Here in Canada, especially with the current fire season we have this year, we need more of them. Prayers go out to the family of that brave Greek crew.

[@scottmccambley764]

Yeah, I haven't heard of any Cdn federal orders for the new 515 water bomber either. The first 25 are going overseas. I guess when they aren't built in Quebec anymore there is no desire to pander for election votes regardless if the country is going up in smoke or not. The provinces current CL fleets should be bought out and sold off by the feds and replaced with double the amount of 515s. But our fed government couldn't act if their lives depended upon it.