CLASS SKILL TIER LIST 2! Maddening

#fireemblem #fireemblemengage #feengage
After 500 hours in Maddening here is my class skill tier list for Fire Emblem Engage.
If you think something is too high or too low you can change my mind with a solid argument : ^ )

[@Neucher]

you can never have too many tier lists 😎 pure upside

[@wingofshu]

A priest healing then self will heal more then vulnerary and even an elixir and yes the item compression can help a lot considering priest has both tomes and staffs, which each have a lot of options

[@declanm810]

I’m pretty sure it also adds to the engage meter, so that’s a plus over using a vulnerary instead

[@Aqalex]

You can't tell me sage's skill is good when you almost never make use of it and that extra damage never maters. Once again lobbying for Veyne's skill btw. More engage skills = crazy good.

[@migu6528]

it could be useful if you pair it up with Soren's bolting but otherwise its pretty bad

[@IcedCoffeeGaming]

How do you know I never make use of it? 95% of my gameplay isn't online

[@jhon1406]

22:29 love how distracted you got while reviewing No Distractions lol

[@brianwinters2285]

I like high priest's skill because it frees up inventory slots for more staves.

[@0ceanking]

Same. I like that my high priest can hold 1 tome and 4 staves without having to hug Alear the whole map. Although it could have been better still. Imagine if it was just a slot-free heal staff that could be used on self, so you don't even have to carry a healing staff. More room for all the cool utility staves!

[@SPZ-gv2on]

I think you undersold veyle's skill a lot. The turn engage ends, the start of that turn veyle gets +1 engage bar. That means it has -1 charge, the same as alear. If you don't recharge engage in a single turn, it's now twice as strong as alear's. Veyle is also already in a fairy strong class while alear often wants other options like flying classes. I don't see why veyle's would ever be weaker.

[@Traestaree]

I agree with this, outside of any strategy that would allow you to reengage the same turn you lose engage, the veyle skill should have the same value as Alear's.

[@grampaseri]

This is true, but he didn't examine the skills in a vacuum but also with respect to the class. Veyle's default class hurts her stats a lot so it drives down the value of getting the skill.

[@IcedCoffeeGaming]

I feel like we are playing different games because Ch23, 24, 25, 26 are all fast paced maps with little down time if any so building 1 extra meter per turn isn't exactly expedient and Alear can actually make use of Divine Dragon having 1 off the meter in earlier chapters while the late game chapters favor highly aggressive play and as few turns as possible due to infinite reinforcements or literal turn limits.

[@SeleccionMakili]

You are absolutely right, Fell Child's will be at worst the same as Alear and at best absolutely superior, the game doesn't allow you to engage and disengage multiple times in a single turn not even with Edelgard so Alear will never be able to generate more engage with their passive. And well Veyle even if you don't invest on her you can always slot her in with an Emblem with support skills like Corrin, Byleth, Veronica, Micaiah and abuse Dragon Type bonuses with her, I think it doesn't hurts you bringing her at all.

[@pketr5]

​​@@SeleccionMakili if we're including DLC, don't forget Soren for Veyle. Who can give her double Crit rate while engaged while using a tome, as she's the only unit that can use tomes and is a dragon (Alear's magic stat is bad). Cataclysm also sets terrain on fire when used by a dragon. Also for 400 bond* you can just get Starsphere from Tiki off the bat, since she's the last unit to join.

[@Blood_Ronin]

This is one of the few videos where I agreed with pretty much everything you said. Good stuff. Just subbed.

[@MiniatureRose.]

bro, veyle’s skill is objectively at least as good as alear’s but probably more, like mathematically. Everything you said about veyle’s skill applies to alear’s. On top of that, say your engage ends. Reducing engage steps required by one is the same as getting an engage step. But veyle’s skill procs at the start of every turn and isn’t just a flat one-time bonus like alear’s.

[@IcedCoffeeGaming]

Ok they are both B then :)

[@MiniatureRose.]

@@IcedCoffeeGaming ❤️

[@NPC_Algernon]

I don't think Grasping Void should be any higher than where you put Sol, since both classes have the issues with low Spd and Dex. If you're bringing Emblem Rings into the picture for Ivy, then you could apply the same logic to fixing Diamant's Spd and Dex and say that he can become invincible pairing Sol procs with Hold Out. Realistically both units don't have reliable trigger rates because of low Dex, and quad-attacking with Nova isn't really an option until Chapter 24, since you get your first one in chapter 23.

[@SPZ-gv2on]

The difference is that healing is less useful than damage. Ivy is very good for chip damage and also for one rounding or nearly one rounding enemies. Grasping void is a nice bonus to sometimes get more chip or finish off enemies. If you are at low health with diamant you can't rely on sol to save him and if he's at high health it's not useful for it to proc.

[@AspieForeigner]

Royal Knight's reforge in C tier? This is a skill that I actively want to remove as if you remove a break and take 10 damage... that is a potential kill for the enemy.

[@IcedCoffeeGaming]

Depends on the use case, you would use it in a safe position to remove break from a main tank that isn't a general.

[@harrisonwhaley7872]

Self heal is good for my Jean that can basically go stand by himself and just eat enemies for breakfast lol. He has the additional stat bonus inherited from tiki so his stats are all just ungodly and he gets the extra XP gains inherited from Edelgard which was what made him into a monster despite being a mage healer who can’t even use S tomes

[@Liam-du1fn]

In what world is grasping void giving you more than one extra damage? Most physical enemies have no magic? Way less useful than ignis

[@Liam-du1fn]

I think self heal is useful because 5 inventory slots is limited and being able to use an extra staff over having to hold a vulnerary is nice, even though they shouldn’t be taking damage in the first place

[@OriginalRaisins]

I agree with most of your top tier. Swap being so low is underrating it I feel. I know you get reposition pretty quick but it's still a fine piece of tech

[@kcsupersonic1]

I would argue that the Ancient Well definitely makes Brave Assist S Tier. Getting SP Books is not too hard and it makes getting Dual Assist+ from Lucina fairly easy. In addition, I think Brave Assist is one of the better class skills in terms of stacking multiples of the class. Having 2 or more Heroes means a substantial increase to potential Chain Attack damage to the point where even if a unit might have been 12 or so points away from scoring a kill, they can now reliably kill a target with say 2 Heroes each triggering Brave Assist with each successful hit chipping of 4 or more HP, especially when factoring in chain attacks from other Backups like Warrior, Picket, Successeur, or a Lucina wielder.

[@Requinix17]

Luna and Sandstorm basically give you the equivalent of a +40 crit on all the unit's weapons by endgame, they belong in S tier. I think air raid should be lower, it's too situational. Most of the time enemies are not close to flier-only tiles, and even when they are, the +5 speed only applies to player phase. And it does not work at all on enemy fliers. I also think you're giving Pass too much credit, I would put it in D tier as I don't think I have ever found a reason to use it in a battle. They should have made Pass an emblem inheritable skill, because it *might* have some use on tanky units, but not thieves.

[@chrislowes870]

I can understand where you're coming from with some of these placements, but you're not really ranking the "skills" as much as ranking the classes with the skills attached. For example with Grasping void and Pincer attack you focused more on the strengths and weaknesses of Lindwurm and Halberdier instead of just judging the skills for what they are, which leads to absurb placements like grasping void a whole tier over luna of all things which is much stronger.

[@grampaseri]

This honestly exposes the flaw of a tier list like this. It's possible to rank the skills separate from their class, but that's not how they exist in the game so it's a bit of a pointless exercise.

[@IcedCoffeeGaming]

Ranking the skill in a vacuum is useless, the skill is actually used in context so I am ranking them in context of how they will be used in gameplay.

[@Havic101-atc]

I make use of Veyle's class skill simply because I don't want to change her class. Nobody else can use Celica's Echo skill to fire off 1-4 range Thorons at two enemies per turn, sticking Draconic Hex on both of them since Veyle starts off with enough SP to inherit that skill from Corrin. And I rather like my dodge-tank Berserker smashing enemies for free since enemies can't land a hit, thank you very much. With Marth's Avoid boosting passives inherited and an Avoid boosting engraving on a greataxe, enemies attacking you first on player phase tends to be a lot less of an issue. I've actually found myself really liking Smash weapons. Being able to break enemies, including Generals, for your allies regardless of weapon type is nice on its own, (especially with Warriors around.) But since my only Smash weapon users are either face tanks or dodge tanks, I really like using the forced movement to isolate enemies away from my other allies, forcing them to engage my tank again on enemy phase. Or waste time and movement ignoring and going around them. If they can do damage and try fighting again, it kills them, since most unit types can't take two hits from a Smash weapon and live. I also like shoving an enemy away and having an ally jump right into a space the enemy slid off of in order to attack from there. Especially if it's a unit who gets support bonuses. My Alear also happens to be a dodge tank and carries around an engraved Silver Blade. So when I have her attack like this, she both supports with everybody in the cast and gives Divinely Inspiring to whichever unit I have follow up.

[@darkmentalmaster]

The problem with Brave assist that keeps it from S tier is that if you level up health you lose the bonus until your unit gets healed again

[@Tr1p93]

I like pass with Sigurd and Draconic hex. I equipped merrin with it and being able to go behind a big collumn of enemies. Then overriding all of them and getting away for free, is a nice way to setup a lot of kills. Usually a big override is tricky to pull off and stay alive after but this way its actually quite easy to get away safely.

[@Requinix17]

Nice idea, I never thought to put Sigurd on a thief, I might have to try that out. Sounds like it could work really well if there's a chokepoint packed with enemies

[@someone999555]

I find it amusing you brought up air raid for its avoid bonus after the bit on swordmaster; i made a crit alacrity based wyvern for fun in a run... and because of air raid and the fact that crit builds obviously value speeds, i dropped alacrity since i was just dodging counter attacks on player phase anyway, freeing up a slot for another inherited skill. Air raid is great

[@kaelthas06]

I love running thieves from some reason lol, it's funny to see a burglar win a battle against a horse, trying a team of swordmaster and halberdier seems interesting as well

[@Ai-jr4ou]

Even if Ivy is a great unit the skill damage increase is +5 damage at most vs a majority of enemy units. Sure vs mages it is more but why attack the mage with 25+ res when you have physical characters. Sure it is still free damage so it is good but the damage spike is only decent and is tied to a mage who can't quad (to fish for procs) till the end of chapter 23 and onwards. Vs the other Dex = damage units who can have a brave bow (realistically) as soon as chapter 13 or a brave lance the chapter after joining, be it through forging silver weapons or well RNG. Place: mid-high A tier (free damage is free damage) Sandstorm is S, just way better then the Grasping Void, you said it yourself the it does more then her crits sometimes. But the main point of my argument for my above statement is that Timerra is a few things, Faster/lance unit (so quad fishing builds come online sooner, you get brave lance before Nova), higher dex both growth and base (class growths included so more average Sandstorm vs Grasping Void), more damage on skill proc. Not to say Timerra is better Ivy, Ivy is a flier with staff use and magic, but Sandstorm on the one unit that can get it is much better than Grasping Void on the one unit that can get it. Timerra might need Sandstorm to do damage but that is all the more reason the skill is in S tier. Luna, same argument for Sandstorm but less stupid damage. And hot take Sniper "No Distractions" is better than Grasping Void, for all intents and purposes (since most units have enough Dex to have a crit rate vs most to all enemy units) it may as well read 10% chance to do 3x damage but unlike the Dex = damage skills elsewhere (which Dex = crit so it is still Dex = damage), like Sandstorm and Luna, by giving the unit a killer weapon, engravings, and/or skills (or being Panette) you can increase the crit chance to near or actually 100% and that skill makes it easy. Killer bow+5 (40) Snpier skill (10) Engrave (20-30) wrath (10-30) so even with the Lyn engrave that only gives +20 you can get to 80 (90 Panette) crit before Dex is added (assuming you are only missing 10 HP for wrath) or with the Corrin engrave and missing health get to 110 (120 Panette) crit before Dex. Lastly, I don't think unit viability should be taken into account for the ranking of the personal classes if they don't have proc chances. So fell sprint is only mildly worse than the Alear version not a whole tier down. The only reason the unit should be taken into account for personal class skill is two things Dex stat/growth, how often it works, and for Sandstorm, because it is the only one that scales off the units stats, how high is Timerra's defense.

[@Mecht]

Brave assist with dual assist plus and canter is kinda broken, plus a ranged weapon and a tank line. It can be kinda fun Are you working on an inherited skill list as well? Your breakdowns have been nice and it would be much appreciated to get a better grasp on all of those in terms of priority/tier.

[@SeleccionMakili]

Grasping Void is not that good, first Ivy's Skill sucks so is unreliable, second it uses the enemy's Mag and enemies with high Mag tend to have good Res too so really shouldn't be engaging them with magical attacks in the first place you may be able to get one or two kills with it against high Res enemies but it is much easier to just attack them with a physical attack without the need to gamble, and lastly if you can quad anything with Nova it is most likely very fucking dead Grasping Void or not. You can crit engrave a tome and be much more impactful than Grasping Void will ever be. Merciless is S tier ... on hard, in Maddening not being able to break bosses makes this skill overkill 99% of the time. Air Raid is so awkward to proc, there is maps where you can't proc it period and in the maps you can you need to actually go out of your way to activate it, I can bet many people went a full playthrough without activating not even once, things like Self-Healing would have more impact on the game because at least you take advantage of it easily.

[@IcedCoffeeGaming]

Grasping is at worst random free damage. If you do literally nothing to enable it you randomly get extra damage, can't argue free average damage is bad when other units do not get this. Merciless is strong and it is on a good class, it can take weak damage and boost it, +50% DMG on ANY warrior vs broken foes is useful and this is underutilized by the community. Air Raid is very easy to proc. As someone who has run a ton of wyverns across 7 maddening runs, I can safely say this is easy to set up. YOU CONTROL where enemies fight you, and if you don't, you are doing it wrong. You can drop bond shields anywhere on the map or aggro enemies to where you are and therefore can set these up. You can manipulate AI to chase you and attack them from flyer only tiles pretty easily.

[@SeleccionMakili]

@@IcedCoffeeGaming Random damage by itself is ok but unreliable tactics are bad, being able to predict the outcome of the fight is better than some unreliable and most often than not irrelevant damage I can't make an informed decision on, and comparing this skill with similar ones like Luna, Sandstorm or Ignis you not only get on average less damage the proc rate is worse, this a tierlist of skills and Grasping Void is not good, Lindwurm is a good class because is flying Sage not because you can get unrelaible free damage. The problem with Merciless is that is overkill, there is very little real situations in which Merciless makes a threeround a tworound, you should be aiming for getting onerounds and if your planning is good the more you advance into the game the easier it is to oneround everything and even if you can't you probably won't need the 50% dmg boost to finish someone off, there are two major exceptions Armored units and Bosses, both of which are very hard to break or totally immune, so this leaves Fracture as the only way of actually breaking a foe AND not making Merciless overkill but you will still be taking 2 actions for one single kill, is it worth it? maybe but very rarely. Then again Warrior is good class because of its stats and good weapon ranks not because of Merciless. If Air Raid worked on enemy phase you would be right saying that you can easily manipulate the enemy position by baiting them but if you bait the enemy and then the next turn you can use Air Raid do you REALLY need it to finish someone off?. This leaves Air Raid to activate on units that by coincidence are next to a fly only tile which are few because u can't fly over a lot of stuff in this game, so Air Raid is very map dependant things like Leif's or Camilla's paralogues, then there are maps that you can't activate it like Chapter 25, and also you know which units like to hang around fly only tiles? Fliers also immune to Air Raid, most of the time you can activate it is a decision between proc the skill or actually be in good position, of course if you have a bunch of fliers and Canto on everyone you can use it a little more but that is just full cope. Wyvern Knight is a good class because of it's stats, weapons and mobility not because some niche use of Air Raid. I don't fucking care how many times have you beaten the game on Maddening, that doesn't make you automatically right, that is not an argument, I mean it is great you go and test weird things but you can also be biased if you overestimate things like if it flies or not.

[@Blaze0070]

Clear the Way is underrated. When you're holding a choke point with Corrin's Flames, usually you need to run Flying units with Canter to not get hindered by the Fire. With Clear the Way, you can use Infantry or Horse units to go in, kill and get out. Also, allowing free pass through Forests and Chapter 16 is awesome.

[@AshenDust_]

You can just wait until the end of the turn to use Corrin’s fire and not have to deal with it on player phase

[@Blaze0070]

@AshenDust Heh... Easier said than done. Plus, it's fun especially with Camilla's Smoke debuff.

[@samkeiser9776]

I truly understand that self-heal isn’t that good, it’s really not going to impact your unit that much in terms of how they perform, but it’s also something you will actually use as a High priest, even if there’s really no good reason to use high priest in most cases, at best it’s really just one extra inventory slot of healing (they should’ve let you target yourself with warp to make warps into funny rewarps smh) All I’m saying though is that imo it’s bottom of C, not D, because it’s pretty likely someone will never use berserkers skill to any meaningful effect, while at least self-heal is free to use and is helpful for inventory management. It also triggers canter, but so does obstruct, or physic, or any other staff used on a proper target, but that’s a use case that isn’t almost non-existent.

[@enersha6979]

Could you make Jean a bonded shield monk? Would he get lots of exp healing multiple higher level units? And take advantage of his even growths with the monk class? Otherwise I want to make him a gryphon rider.

[@RenegadeVash]

I think it weould have been cooler for berserker smash where they negate 1 hit restriction of smash weapons making them potentially really deadly, or go along line of warrior where they follow up on broken enemies could call it savagery

[@Unyubaby]

I wonder if Bow Knight would be viable with DLC Veronica engraving since it'd basically cancel out her engrave's downside.

[@ShinyPuffHD]

alcryst + ericka + crit dex build is insane best archer in the game

[@neog8029]

Alcryst wants Lunar Brace for sure. Not sure he needs Eirika herseld per se. I prefer to slap Eirika on a cav unit for Twin Strike to have that extra 50% damage boost and hit like the force of the sun.

[@trevor749]

I can fracture wyrms‽! Fuck me, I never thought to try that. They aren’t the hardest enemies but that is definitely good information.

[@VaniG91]

It's interesting how you changed your perspective on tanking, I remember back then u said tanking is useless but now you seem to value it.

[@ayylmao633]

My boi is churning out content.

[@thelostician]

I think Cupido’s class skill, under the right circumstances and build can be really good, it shouldn’t be higher than okay, it’s in the right rank. But Postgame build idea(unfortunately requires DLC) Cupido Fogado with Reprisal+ and Wrath, equipped with Roy, gives you a safe way to activate this skill and make it powerful. This is unreasonable during a play through, but for post game, it’s a great idea.

[@vitor102]

For those of you with the dlc thinking about getting veronica's sp conversion, i just finished my well run, and i had enough books to buy the skills for the units with sp conversion, its a bond fragment trap! it seems bronken, but its not needed

[@freshness2569]

How long did you do the well run for?

[@vitor102]

@@freshness2569 what do you mean? i started a run with the well, and finished it today, did most of the paralogues too(i think i missed 3 of them) most characters spent around 6k sp and i had enough books left to buy all the skills of the units i had sp conversion on. By the end, bond fragments where the thing keeping me from buying stuff, and sp conversion needs a lot of that

[@MiniatureRose.]

@@vitor102 so you’re saying that bond fragments became more of a bottleneck than sp did? were you on maddening? regardless the well is fucked

[@vitor102]

@@MiniatureRose. yes, bond fragments were the bottleneck, it was on maddening

[@freshness2569]

@@vitor102 ah ok. I was confused on by well run. So you just did ,4/5 stars and did the paraogues? I thought you just ment you did the outer real trick. So if you do a skirmish or para you get better items from it then the out realm trick ?

[@MasterStacona]

air raid works for 1 range and 2 range weapons, it is just almost impossible to use on 1 range weapons

[@MasterStacona]

Anna is the only good bow knight in the game since it gives her 70% dex, 70% speed and 60% luck; strength doesn't matter since she only cares about magic with her radiant bow, she gets the extra movement and can make use of claude's ring for 2-3 range radiant bow which is insanely underrated

[@SuperSoyajin]

Bow knight has 0 magic growth unfortunately. Why not just play Mage Knight and use Elwind/Excalibur and pop Byleth when you need the extra range?

[@brandondodson2954]

​@Stern Huang byleth doesn't give extra range on mage knight :/ only mystics get it

[@SuperSoyajin]

@@brandondodson2954 right my bad. I guess you'd have to choose between range and mobility.

[@MasterStacona]

@@SuperSoyajin radiant bow one shots every flier, has insane base might, easier to 2x as a bow knight and you get way more dex, and radiant bow anna still fulfills all of the roles of a mage, but with better growths Claude's ring is also 100% uptime, so you always have 2-3 range radiant bow and 2-4 long bow; anna's strength is so bad she does like no damage with long bow, but chip damage is better than no damage Give Alear byleth and an upgraded levin sword, dragon dance and dragon instruct is so much better and byleth is best to use for the utility and support aspect than to get 4 range bolgonone and 5 range thoron for 3 turns

[@RaidenKaiser]

Break defense is C tier for me, it's good but it is useless against bosses lol

[@variareaver4658]

Now this is amusing and not amazing but you can use a smash weapon with Back At You and it can trigger. The problem with back at you is that it’s overly nerfed vengeance but it’s funny.

[@ino_mation]

The only thing making High Priest "bad" is that it's inaccessible by anyone other than Framme, Jean, and Pandreo before you get Byleth for teaching Arts, or DLC (Tiki). Truly 100% believe Self Healing is better than Spell Harmony. I don't want to carry a vuln/elixir on anybody capable of healing other than Citrinne, since she can possibly heal up to 4 other units at the same time by using a healing item, although even that sucks because I don't want Citrinne to ever be hit anyways, maybe there's a tanky Citrinne build out there so she can actually make use of her personal skill, but right now it's literally use a healing item on a glass cannon who probably is going to die if they get hit anyways, making it pretty bad. Meanwhile, Sage's Spell Harmony, even with balling up your tome users... how frequently does this really *matter*? Assuming doubling, it's a maximum of +8 damage, which requires being at the center of a + shape formation of mages. It's also magic damage against resistance, and like, do you really need +8? If you need anything up to +6, just stand next to Alear, if Alear is also using a tome, you could get +14, but again, do you really need +14 when hitting res? Maybe there'll be some times where +3 will get you a kill on the first hit and prevent retaliation, that could be good, though again, Alear performs the same function as 3 mages in a mage ball. Realistically, +1 or +2 is all you're getting from Spell Harmony most of the time, and there may be a few moments on a weaker Sage where it actually matters, but mostly it won't. Sage as a class, also just isn't as good as Mage Knight, or the unique tome classes. I'm not saying High Priest is either, but High Priest is the second worst Adv. Mage class imo, with Sage being the worst, and the only real difference between the two is that High Priest has Self Healing and Sage has Spell Harmony (Yea High Priest has Arts but that's not good). Sage does have S Tome Nova available, but Nova isn't that great anyways, unless you're rolling w/ mage Alear in a mage ball to get +28 damage on Nova, which yeah that actually is wild, but is it good or necessary? No. If the High Priest has tome innate proficiency, they've got A rank tomes and that's good enough, and Lindon doesn't even want S/A rank weapons anyways, so he's also better as a High Priest than as a Sage. Most people are still going to be better as a Mage Knight than a Sage or High Priest anyway though. But, Spell Harmony still sucks, and Self Healing is still good.

[@Keykey70]

Good way to take advantage of Citrinne's personal is through the resonance skill inherit on Celica. Whenever she attacks with a tome, she loses 1HP, letting you then use a vulnerary to heal adjacents. Put Celine nearby, and you've got 22 heals on vulneraries and 45 on elixirs. Great way to mitigate the loss of Micaiah.

[@lilybunn423]

self healing sucks over any other class skill if you have more than one healer on the team, and honestly in all of my runs I’ve had at least 4. Griffin knights, sages, ivy & hortensia all have stave access, and griffin has amazing growths so you usually run at least one anyway, sage anna is the best mage in the game so it’s easy to have at least one sage, and the two Elusia sisters are both super solid units… I’ve just never needed my healer to heal themself. There’s so many other good classes with staves- even seadall with quality time can become a potent healer.

[@InternetMonster1]

I had no idea that you could fracture a Wyrm. That is huge with Warrior.

[@kiretan8599]

Just run panette 😂 you don’t need to break worms 😂 she one shots worms in maddening with crit axe on my run. But fracture is useful for other units who can’t one shot worms.

[@AshenDust_]

@@kiretan8599 how? My strongest physical units did like 20% to them at most without a Crit. Her strength can’t be that much higher.

[@kiretan8599]

@@AshenDust_ that’s probably because your strongest physical unit isn’t named panette 🤣 honestly I don’t know, she just does. This is on maddening fixed growths btw, she is one warrior, honestly if you leave her barbarian she would have more str growth too. She also has ike ring but thats about it. And her SI didnt affect it either since i only got vantage and dual assist on her. I think theres also vids on youtube showing her one shotting wyrms. Edit: actually it i remembered ike doesnt matter cause on chap 22 she was my wyrm killer and she one rounds all the wyrms there.

[@AshenDust_]

@@kiretan8599 I needed Erika’s engage attack to one-round them :(

[@MiniatureRose.]

@@AshenDust_ he’s right, panette is the strongest character in the game and is begging for a crit build

[@ljthompson3011]

I can send yunaka out on her own to solo one side of the map steel dagger +3-5 with dawn engrave spd+ and speedtaker she slaughters everything don’t need an emblem

[@kiretan8599]

I found that yunakas damage falls off in fixed growth at least, in my runs she couldnt slaughter enemies aside from the early maps and i gave her +5 steel dagger and a +4 silver dagger, how are you making her slaughter in maddening? Esp with dawn engrave it lessens the mt of the weapon. I just use her for blocking tiles in later maps with corrin fog.

[@ljthompson3011]

@@kiretan8599 dawn engrave and using the chrom emblem for brute force so I guess I’m using an emblem but just for a passive I gave her 1 energy drop early on but she’s been pretty strength blessed this run since I’m playing on random growths

[@ljthompson3011]

@@kiretan8599 she would literally dodge 80% of the enemies and not even be on an avoid tile most enemies would run past her with the stealth attack from chroma ring equipped just keep her in the forest and take out enemies as they ran past it was pretty nuts but like I said she was very strength blessed in my run I gave alear 2 energy drops and yunaka 1 and they had the same base strength endgame

[@kiretan8599]

@@ljthompson3011 ah alright, im just on vanilla but maybe ill buy the dlc once wave 4 comes out ! Ty for the info, late game she just does chip damage on my runs.

[@MasterStacona]

the maddening AI wont attack 0% hit units

[@spindrift6464]

good list :)

[@shadowdragun]

Its funny how in the point for pincer attack's placw in a tier you didnt give any reasons why it wa sup there just saud ehy the class it was on was bad whoch dorsnt sell me on it at all

[@IcedCoffeeGaming]

Pincer attack is good because you can double things despite speed as long as something is on the other side.

[@shadowdragun]

@@IcedCoffeeGaming ah that ecplains how that halberdier fabrication was able to double (and crit) mauvier on chapter 19

[@marcoasturias8520]

Both the dragon abilities are worthless. Combat capable units with combat capable emblems can enemy phase to get their charges. At best, it'll take them 2 combats, that can be achieved with clever positioning. For the rest, you should prioritize the shining spots for them and I feel there's more than enough of them to not rely on extremely slow abilities.

[@gameplayerone3917]

Pass helps Yunaka and Zelkov become a magic damage sponge. Since enemy mystics will be the only ones who can target them, with high enough res/pure water they agro them long enough for you to deal with everyone else. Yeah Fire Corrin is useful, but 3 Generals accomplish the same thing, all without having to worry about their low res.

[@Zorualex]

I crave for FE Awakening’s power levels so I give Ivy Lightning from DLC Camilla (which is like a mini nova) and Nova to my Sage Byleth wielder for that omnipotent feeling.

[@mithos789]

hero skill is broken. you can use corrins skill to keep them at max health.

[@0bskureference]

Careful aim should have been the opposite, increasing aim after movement, which synergizes with cav mobility since ya know, it isn’t that great in this game

[@brandon3059]

I got Diamant on Successeur to high level in my Maddening playthrough and he REALLY never pops off. I don't know how to fix this guy. But I started using Kagetsu late and leaving Kagetsu on Swordmaster, he was better than Diamant even 10 levels lower than Diamant. I don't know why Diamant sucks so much but he's terrible. Maybe he is fixed on other classes or something but boy.

[@MegaScytheman]

I'm using him on wyvern and if you give him a few speed skills from lyn can let him deal a lot of damage, especially with his personal increasing reliability

[@SeleccionMakili]

@@MegaScytheman You can literally use anybody with some decent physical stats and do good on wyvern. His personal also makes him take more damage because avoiding becomes very hard.

[@saggsman]

That is unfortunate. There are ways to latching him up though. Like giving him Hector Emblem for the quick riposte (assuming dlc). Weapons with hit/crit + engraving, things like that. He could also benefit from Ike/Roy/Marth/Lyn emblems. Lyn especially for speedtaker or Marth for unyielding ++ if you want for the late game. Just examples to bring up.

[@freshness2569]

I just wish his dexr cap was a bit higher. Then he could be more reliable. His brother carried me in tikis para with Luna. Then I just keep him in for chip damage.

[@saggsman]

@@freshness2569 I hear you on that one. Just a FYI passives like Dex +4 or if you have DLC Speed/Dex +4 from Chrom/Robin can go beyond the stat cap. Along with other emblem rings you might choose for him and stat tonics. Rallies too

[@leoerus]

Wyvern is the best class so it's class skill has to be the best !

[@IcedCoffeeGaming]

I mean +5 SPD is pretty hype tbh

[@MasterStacona]

Speed doesn't always matter for mages when you can just use thoron, high magic and low speed mage makes for a better thoron poker

[@plentyofpaper]

I had a huge disagreement about World Tree with somebody else .They insisted it was a fantastic ability, I insisted it was basically worthless. I'll use an estimated 30% activation rate. Hortensia starts with 21 dex, caps at 36 I think. From an economics standpoint, this is 30% off staffs purchased for Hortensia. Rescue and Warp are 2000 at 5 uses, so 400 gold per use. Hortensia using one of these saves 120 gold on average, which is about as valuable as it gets. Rewarp 72 gold per use..Mend and obstruct save about 15 gold per use. On a typical map, I'd say you're looking at saving maybe 500G per map, depending on play style. I'd say you can realistically get World tree around chapter 19. So, maybe 6-7000 gold saved by the end of the game. Also, this gain only materializes if the staff's she's saving uses on are still available in the shop. I'd personally buy both Rescue staffs, even if it's just so I can have them available on multiple different units. This means Hortensia can't save money while using Rescue, regardless of how often World Tree activates. But she could theoretically make it so I don't run out, which doesn't tend to be an issue for me. Over the course of the game, the shop gives 2 each of Warp, Rewarp and Rescue (5 uses a piece.) Pandreo comes with a Warp. You can get a Rescue from a chest in chapter 20. I think you may get a rewarp somewhere, but I can't recall. So that's 40-45 teleports throughout the course of the game. +30% on any that Hortensia uses after level 5 promoted. I'd argue most of them should be used chapter 20 and later when you have Micaiah, as warping a single unit 5 spaces is only occasionally useful (although Rescue can still be a lifesaver.) When you have Micaiah, Warp and Rewarp are functionally interchangeable. Rescue can be used similarly by advancing forward, then rescuing. In a pinch, you could have a unit warp Micaiah to an ally in trouble, and have Micaiah Warp/rewarp them back for a rescue replacement. So the staffs are fairly interchangeable. No teleports are available until chapter 9. World Tree can realistically be gotten around chapter 19 or so. Additionally, to keep options available, I'd keep rescue and warp on multiple staff users in case they're needed in different areas. This increases versatility substantially, but decreases the amount that World Tree can activate. Micaiah would be my main staff user, and I put her on a unit that can't normally use staffs, since any unit can use warp/rescue/rewarp/obstruct/great sacrifice with equal effectiveness just, but they now have additional utility. This allows me to either run an extra stuff unit, or replace a staff unit with one that's better at combat. The tradeoff is I'm using World Tree less, which again, I'm thoroughly unimpressed by. I also naturally engage in staff rationing, making sure I have enough teleport staffs available for late game. This basically means, Hortensia or not, if I've got only 4 rescues left on chapter 22, I'm going to be very hesitant to use them if I don't have to. I can't rely on a World Tree activation. If one pops up, nice. It adds to my safety net. But I can't fundamentally play the game differently. Add to that, you don't really get to realize the effects of the skill until you would otherwise run be at the point where you would be out of or start heavily rationing teleport staffs. If World Tree activates on chapter 20, and I start running short on staffs chapter 23, chapters 20, 21, and 22 are unchanged. I don't generally run Hortensia as a staple unit (she tends to make an appearance late game, hen I replace my weak combat units with very weak staff units, since stats barely matter for staffs.) and I don't run out of staffs I need. I don't play limited turn count, but still complete almost all chapters within 15 turns. Most 10-12. Some 6 or less. The game gives you plenty of staffs imo. Ultimately, I'm unimpressed with the economics of world tree, and don't run out of staffs, so their limited availability isn't super important. Hortensia's mobility and +1 staff range are handy, but honestly, I could reclass Vander to a Martial Master, put Sigurd on him, give him Recover, Warp, Rescue, Obstruct and Physic, and he'd be a better staff user than Hortensia without Sigurd or Micaiah. No flying, +4 movement while engaged, probably heals more, doesn't get +1 staff range, but can still retreat 2 tiles to safety after healing. And he can chain guard.

[@IcedCoffeeGaming]

Vander Staff user is an interesting take haha

[@plentyofpaper]

@@IcedCoffeeGaming Yup. Staff user is a role that any unit can fill effectively. We toss Micaiah on Anna as a fighter to feed her exp. But you may have noticed this actually makes her the strongest member of your team at this point of the game, despite Anna herself contributing very little to the role. 5 tile obstruct, great sacrifice, team rewarp. All super powerful. Anybody could do this. A good staff user is a unit that can use a staff, and do more. Good mobility, good combat, chain guard, reposition, tank hits, debuff enemies, whatever. But a bad staff user is still very useful.

[@MiniatureRose.]

bro is verbose also i would make the point that the hypothetical value of a use of warp or rewarp being 400 gold as dictated by the game is arbitrary. I like doing LTC, and to me, I’d honestly pay like 5000 or even 10000 for a rewarp staff. So maybe on paper it isn’t super cost saving or whatever, but you need to look at the utility received by a staff use and not just the cost paid.

[@plentyofpaper]

​@@MiniatureRose. Oh, absolutely I'd pay drastically more for these staffs. But they are available at these prices, so that's what I'm paying. There are 2 ways to look at the skill. 1. Did the skill save me money by allowing me to not buy something I would otherwise buy? You evaluate this by looking at the price you can pay for the item. 400 per use. Although as I pointed out, if you're just going to buy them all regardless so they can be available on multiple units, it doesn't save a single gold. 2. Did the ability allow me to do something I otherwise could not do? This comes up if there are no more of the staffs available. This situation where you use the actual value of the staff to the player. 10000 for a rewarp staff? If that's the only way to get them, sounds fair to me. 2000 per use, we'll say Divine Tree gives 5 uses beyond what's otherwise possible, 10000 gold of value generated. Plus whatever you get from any other staffs. Naturally though, this value is only appropriate if you're at the point where you actually run out. So, do you run out of teleport staffs? If so, use 10,000 per rewarp staff as your value. Which transports to 600 gold every time Hortensia uses one. If not, you use the game's 2000 base value. 120 gold per time Hortensia uses one. Given how plentiful teleport staffs are, how limited warp and rewarp utility is without Micaiah, as well as the value of keeping rescue in reserve as a get out of jail free card, I strongly suspect the latter play style is more common. But hey, if you run out, and are actually using all of the staffs efficiently, you've got the right idea.

[@michaelpaul92]

moonis is cool 😎

[@erikbell1723]

Alfred is really not as bad as people make him out to be. Self Heal is for Anna to solo skirmishes more reliably

[@grampaseri]

Alfred's start is very painful but his growths are actually not bad. He suffers from just getting overridden by the excellent midgame units.

[@pearce9063]

This is for maddening, there's barely any skirmishes

[@MasterStacona]

Griffin Knight passive is a cursed effect, it takes away 1 movement from allies. It is a movement COST of 1, which means you are paying 1 movement for moving near or through your own griffin knight, it is penalty to off set the power of Griffin Knights otherwise the class would be too good.

[@Keykey70]

What are you talking about? It SETS the movement cost to 1, it doesn't add 1 to the movement cost. If the movement cost was 2, it is now 1. Can easily be tested by playing the class.

[@MasterStacona]

@@Keykey70 The wording is bad. I realize now that is is a niche boon when i was able to basically full move in water on the map you get eirika

[@MasterStacona]

Etie is significantly better Alcryst, she pops off immediately with Sigurd and then you reclass her later into warrior and give her Lyn and she hard carries the whole time. The higher strength just means you reliably kill fliers, alcryst needs rng to kill anything which is the opposite of reliable

[@grampaseri]

Etie with two of the best emblems in the game while Alcryst gets...? Also literally any unit with Lyn is instantly better, you can't use that as an argument for anything.

[@jimmybandme]

The Etie copium i keep seeing is so fucking weird. Have you seen her growths? Yes you can make her good with rings but any unit can be good with rings, she has a 10% strength growth lead over Alcryst with lower growths everywhere else, sometimes significantly lower.

[@qtpie1144]

She really isnt better though

[@MasterStacona]

@@jimmybandme The rings are literally the game's main gimmick that they also revolve the story around. The fact that she nukes everything the same way as panette with Lyn kind of showcases the game is balanced and that Etie is really good, and before Lyn she pops off with Sigurd ring. but you can only have one physical damage nuke per run because you only get one Lyn ring. You can decide between any of the high strength users like Louis, Amber, Etie, or Panette --- do not use anyone else, they are bad.

[@MasterStacona]

@@qtpie1144 if i put sigurd on alcryst he wont reliably kill fliers, if i put sigurd on etie she reliably kills fliers this means, Etie is straight up better