Classic Mercedes Pagoda’s left unsold as auction prices struggle to meet reserve….w113 and w121.

[@marcosortolani3639]

Congratulations on the video. What an amazing workshop. Great work!

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

Thx. Yes TI Developments has an amazing set up and most of the people who work there are twice as old (not quite true) as the owner which is kind of what you want when it comes to mechanics, body shop and fabrication. Mike

[@TonyLiveTV]

Very enjoyable watch Mike. I love the thumbnail too.

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

Yes...Bing AI image creator...I'm experimenting. By the way - congrats on doubling your channel in 2024 and a very happy Christmas to you, your family...and the puppies if you still have them! Mike

[@TonyLiveTV]

@ thank you Mike. We were fostering the two puppies and we kept one of them. Speaking of my channel, in my next video I will be directing viewers to your master cylinder series you did. I believe you have two videos. One video explains the differences over the years and explains how it all works. The other video is on rebuilding one and bleeding the master cylinder. These are excellent videos. After my post engine break-in video I mentioned I had electrical issues and I had no rear breaks so I still have not driven the car. I solved the electrical problems and started on the brakes. My front breaks work great, but no rear brakes. No fluid will pull using an A/C vacuum pump, no fluid flow with a pressure tank on the reservoir and no fluid flow using the old school pump method. Right before I parked it 17 years ago I had done the brakes including a new master and rebuilt calipers. Today I’ll see where it is plugged or maybe I simply lost prime in the master cylinder. I just hope it’s not the ABS system restricting brake fluid flow.

[@andyjcb]

I thought i remembered seeing this in the gentleman! great vid mike!

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

Thanks....I wondered when I saw it whether it really wouldn't start or whether that was part of the film...because I know they had problems on account of a dodgy cold start relay which I subsequently did a video about. Have a good Christmas! Mike

[@lascm5237]

The demographic is shifting, people are chasing newer modern classics from the 80s through 2000s because they are the models they grew up with and couldn’t afford at the time. My guess is this is always going to be a rolling dilemma - enthusiast’s previously in a position to desire, buy, run and fix expensive cars like pagoda’s are simply dying out 🫡

[@MJR67]

Yep, The generation whose parents/uncle etc owned one are themselves passing away and their kids just want the money. Plus as you point out getting them repaired is harder and harder as the old mechanics retire and shop rates are getting more and more expensive. So unless prices for cars are high, restauration etc doesn’t make financial sense. Merry Xmas to all.

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

So true. Mike

[@ODTK268]

With Mercedes SLs and Porsches from the 50s and 60s, I can do all the work myself and often make a profit from my hobby. You can't make a profit on the more modern SLs and Porsches. In addition, you are at the mercy of spare parts dealers and workshops (and their prices). It's not worth it financially.

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

@@ODTK268 ....although having said that (all of which I agree with), there comes a time when prices get so low that the cycle restarts. Maybe we are getting close to that with the R129 and maybe even some R230 models. Maybe. Mike

[@ODTK268]

@@MikesMercsandothercars - I loved to drive R 129 & R 230, but never had any chance to get rid of them. I had the choice to keep them for the rest of my life or accept used car dealers offers. I always lost money on these SLs. Same with R 107. I never had such problems with the 190 SL and Pagoda.

[@Madeinlondon67]

I remember the Pagodas from The Long Good Friday

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

Wow...that inspired me to look up the film: www.imcdb.org/v028138.html You live and learn. Mikje

[@JML319van]

Hey Mike the classic car market has definitely cooled. Some great bargains to be had out there. Im keeping an eye out for a nice W114 or W115 to bid on but i guess ill be keeping the van for a while 😄

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

Good to hear from you. I often think about your van, the timing is just not quite right at the moment...but never say never. Hope you and the family have a lovely Christmas...can;t wait to catch a bit of Australia sun. Mike

[@JML319van]

Have a great time. We've just been for some winter sun in Portugal. Saw lots of old mercs on the roads. Merry Christmas to you guys!

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

@JML319van Portugal? Like I say..you are living the life. Mike

[@and4263]

W114 and W115's are incredible value currently, I have a 250CE and it's fab.

[@billsmith281]

The pool of people interested in these older models are literally dying out. How much interest is in a Model T anymore? .....not much!

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

Yes agreed....that's why I have bought my young daughter a poster of an old Merc for Christmas. You've got to start somewhere......Mike

[@dietmarspriesterbach6]

It would be interesting to see the nowadays prices for the aircooled Porsche 911!

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

I don't really follow Porsche...although a friend of mine was the Chairman of the Porsche club UK and had a beautiful 911 air cooled Porsche. What's needed is an update to this article: classicsworld.co.uk/classic-car-price-guide/air-cooled-porsche-prices-market-trends/ Mike

[@Truthurts-s9t]

I wish I knew about TI Developments before my car was lashed up at DC Customs in Dudley.

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

Hi - I haven't come across DC Customs. What is your car and what did you have done...what did it cost and was it worth it? Often the best recommendations (and places/things to avoid) come from customer comments. Mike

[@petercollingwood522]

SL's are magnificent. But that auction was interesting. Perhaps greed has simply run its course and there are not enouh people left from the new generations with boomer money to pay ludcrious prices for a money pit.

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

Yep - spot on. I remember at the top of the last boom in classic cars, one particular Fund Management Group launched a fund specialising in classic cars...marking the top of the bull market. I think sometimes people forget that you can still have significant expenditure even if you pay top dollar for a car. Mike

[@dominicwood3750]

The younger generation either don’t have the money or lifestyle read property with garage to run such cars. Especially in areas where young professionals can earn well like central London. Also appalling traffic and 20 mph restrictions can make car ownership a chore.

[@petercollingwood522]

@@dominicwood3750 That's specific to London in England. But this is a global phenomenon. There has been a simiar phenomenon noticed here in the US with a lot of SL's - and other high end collector cars - not comeing anywhere near expectations.

[@TheoSmith249]

Beautiful Pagoda Mike. I enjoyed its reliability in The Gentlemen.

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

Ha...actually that film inspired me to do the video on the cold start mechanism because they had problems starting the car a few times. I'm intrigued to see it in The Girlfriend film next year because they used it quite a bit. Mike

[@lilmano9]

Wow I can’t believe the price of some of those pagodas! Makes me feel better about paying 18k for my R107 this June. A full service later, and 3 months in the shop totalling 10k spent its a solid solid beauty now, ready for next summer. Problem seems to be everyone is struggling with the current “cost of living”. Money is tight in all sectors and cars are a luxury let’s not forget! Classic cars are even more so, disposable money is drying out and fast! Secondly the generation who not only can afford but more importantly appreciate and facilitate these cars changing hands are dying off sadly! I’m 28 years old and honestly how many under 30’s do any of you guys reading this know who are bothered about classic cars(40+ years old classics I mean) and also can afford to keep one. As previous comments have suggested I also think 80’s cars will be hit lesser but I do worry about anything 70’s and before. Time will tell, fantastic video and very interesting bunch of blokes keeping the passion going

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

You must be one of the coolest 28yr olds if you drive a Pagoda….and maybe one of the shrewdest if you got one for 18k. What colour is it? Agree with everything you say. Mike

[@shabbos-goy9407]

@@MikesMercsandothercars Did you read what he said? He bought a 107 not a Pagoda

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

@@shabbos-goy9407 You are quite right!....once the eyesight starts going. Thought for a moment he had picked up the bargain of a lifetime. Mike

[@lilmano9]

@@MikesMercsandothercars haha yeah that would be a find of a lifetime! The fact pagodas are even below 50k amazes me! Very very pretty cars and thought they’d only go up in value! Ps it’s Dark grey, 1987, 420 r107.

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

@@lilmano9 420sl - nice car. I paid £6k for my silver R107 280SL and £14k for the Pagoda back in the day. Both cars quickly needed another £6k spending...Mike

[@chrispenn715]

These prices do seem to have cooled.... Personally, wouldn't want an LHD in the UK. Maybe they should have sold them on the continent instead?

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

Yes getting hold of a good RHD Pagoda in the right color is easier said than done. Many of these international auctions are viewed worldwide. Mike

[@jkoysza1]

Across the pond here we are in a drought for LHD good examples of Pagodas, Mark 5 Jaguars and Mark 6 Bentleys.

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

@@jkoysza1 Wow that surprises me. I always assumed that good rust free cars would be much cheaper and more plentiful in America. Mike

[@jkoysza1]

@@MikesMercsandothercars the sad part is our use of road salt. It degraded so many 190SL cars that they became scarce even for refurb. Pagodas as I recall had better rust proofing, but so many of these were owner by those who did not or could not maintain them.

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

@@jkoysza1 wise words indeed. Mike

[@ODTK268]

The classic car industry belongs to the consumer discretionary sector. The term describes things that people do not necessarily need to live and that are only consumed when people have excess wealth. European countries are currently developing in the other direction. Money worries and general lack of possessions are the new trends. If you want to get good prices, you have to have wealthy customers outside of Europe.

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

Agreed. Mike

[@NickForest999]

Too many LHD Pagodas flooding the U.K. hasn’t been the magic bullet some hoped would make the market more buoyant

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

Yes - these days, it is far more difficult getting hold of a decent RHD Pagoda. Happy Christmas. Mike

[@limyrob1383]

Pagodas are nice but they are not that special. There are better cars to drive, they are now 60 years old and the number of people who want to drive 60 year old cars is declining. I think the 190 is even more vulnerable as it was never especially fast. Its not just MB, Jaguars are going the same way, but later cars that look good like the Alfa's and BMWs are holding up. If you want an SL get an R129 for a fraction of the cost and drive it, they are great to drive and a good one is under 10k. Get a 90's 500LS with 300+ hp, a power hood and aircon and it will (within reason) drive like a modern car. I drive a 1970 Land Rover a lot of the time and its interesting to see the reaction of "young" people when they get in it. To a 30 something (ie born in 1990!!) its not a "classic" its a museum piece. How many people want to drive a car that was made 30 years before they were born?

[@ODTK268]

It's the same with houses. If someone owns a house from the 1960s with a large garden in a popular residential area, young people often cannot understand that. They say everything is old and unfashionable. Young people prefer modern apartments that are not too big, preferably new buildings, and they also prefer to rent.

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

It pains me to say it but I kind of agree. I originally bought that Pagoda because my then girl friend had seen it on the forecourt and liked it. At the time I didn't find it that attractive although I have since come to love it. Parked next to the Pagoda when I bought it was a silver 300sl roadster for £107,000. My dream car. It will be interesting to see how the R129 does over the years - it was the one SL shape that I never really warmed to. Mike

[@limyrob1383]

@MikesMercsandothercars I drive a '90 500SL and it definitely appeals to a younger demographic but that doesn't mean they want to own one and there are plenty about.

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

​@@limyrob1383 Is your 90 500SL a R129?

[@limyrob1383]

@MikesMercsandothercars yes. I had an R107 before.

[@jamesbarlow4474]

Perhaps you could give the engineer a chance to answer your questions?

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

You are right. Mike

[@vincenzocherubini2424]

And there's your problem! You say in your intro about your time in investment banking. It's a bloody car. However, over the past 20 years a lot of people with little sense & loadsa money have bought these (and other motors) as an "investment", leading to astronomical prices. My first 230sl cost me around 4k. When i married, my wife made me sell it (cow!). I later got a 280 sl imported from US, total cost incl tax, duty and shipping was around 6k. Both were used as everyday cars, going to work and travelling all over Europe in them. They were bought because of my dislike of modern cars, not as an investment. The same is true in property and also watches. when people started "investing" in property, that's when prices started going mental. In my day, you bought a house to live in, not as a speculative purchase for the purpose of "flipping". I have nothing but disgust for these vermin! Investment, my arse! It's a car. Buy it, drive it, enjoy it because it's what you like, not because some city toe-rag told you to buy it.

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

I agree. I remember back in 1989 a fund management group launching a Classic Car Fund right at the top of the last cycle and of course it all went horribly wrong. Same is happening to Commercial Property funds in USA at present. I just like driving my cars and if they up in value that's great. If you are clever enough to buy and sell cars or house for a living - then good luck to you.....but chances are that at these level many people will lose money on these investments. Happy Christmas. Mike

[@vincenzocherubini2424]

@@MikesMercsandothercars Thanks, Have a Happy Christmas too.

[@joemorgan636]

These are Left Hookers mate half the dough 😂😂

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

It used to be the case that left handed cars sold for more because its a much bigger market....but these days getting a RHD Pagoda in decent condition can be tricky. Mike

[@TheIneption]

We are simply in economic downturn. The free covid money has run its course. Inflation is persistent. The sentiment is very poor in UK atm. All classics and sports cars come down in prices. There is simply no luxury market atm. It will happen again but not yet

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

100% agree. Mike

[@philreynolds6018]

All the cars look like restored rust and replaced fender cars and Sorry green with red interior on the 300se is awful .

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

You could be right. The one thing I learned from walking around TI Developments is that the cost of doing a restoration properly is 10's of thousands and yet the end product may look very similar to a patched up car. The 300se is just such a great looking car and I have always toyed with the idea of having one as our family drive around....I did like the green colour scheme...but it probably wouldn't be what I would choose were I buying a car from new. Mike

[@joemorgan636]

Hold on why is everybody running into the SL shop they are Johnny come latelies okay. I have owned Pagodas from way back in the day do not have to go there. Go to original SL men for instance ROGER Edwards, and many others you need proper Benz mechanics who work on these every day as long as it’s 50s - 60s Engineering they will 100% know these inside out they are in in West - East and South London just little outskirts theirs nuff off them I know who do them piss easy. SL shop take your dough mate skin you alive that’s for people are not clued up

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

I knew Roger Edwards before he died - they did my Pagoda when I first got it. Still speak to the son. Mike

[@donjohnson4368]

Very poor sound quality Mike

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

Yes - it’s atrocious for which I apologise. Mike

[@andrewwmacfadyen6958]

Classic and exotic car prices have historically been very volatile. The likely world economic instability caused by the election of Donald Trump will see investors moving to safer places to invest

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

Agreed. Mike

[@billturner6564]

Trump 😅😅 Hysterical..... Not Makron Sunak Sir Kia BIDEN ..... No Trump 😅😅😅

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

@@billturner6564 Not sure I quite understand your drift. Mike

[@joemorgan636]

you will not buy an SL for 30 grand No way, not right hand drive. No no chance that’s a bag of bits in right hand dry form crazy brother.

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

What did you pay for your 3?

[@joemorgan636]

@ I had my 1st which was a 230 SL witch my dad bought for me at 18 years old I then had that for 6 years then got 68 280 in Red then 3-4 years later got 70 H 280 🤣. Bruv I am the man when it comes too Them takes a good man to know more about them than me. I am that confident on them nothing nothing I don’t know about them . I knew exactly specialist, where around London and outskirts and new way to get everything fixed they are a piece of piss people get scared, but you know what I understand a lot of people own these cars are extremely wealthy. They are not for the average man because when you was £5600 in the 1960s, that’s two houses 🤣 a Etype Jag was £1900 - right so you know where I’m coming from pagoda 280SE 3.5 coupe - and ultra Rare convertibles or even more money then the 105 chassis 250-280SE family salons were proper dough back late 60s, early 70s but they’re all the same running gear. This is what I’m trying to say doesn’t have to be a Pagoda specialist good 1960s 70s Mercedes-Benz mechanics, they all run the same just different bodies but mechanically they are identical. 40 years experience in these. No one can’t tell me about them. I know they run sound of them. Had a gearbox changes on them. Had a mechanical fuel injection pump. Works how to set up the injection system how to set up the gearbox properly clunk when traffic I know about them I just think it’s so funny .

[@joemorgan636]

@ The SL shop oh please rip merchants I know proper classic Merc Garages piss all over them. I’ve been around For 30-40 years old boys that were around and fixing them in dealerships back in a day they gave me with their knowledge when I was just a little kid. Remember, I was driving Pagoda was 18 years old then had my second mid 20s 🤣🤣 I’ve had 911 coupe and convertibles The best best MERCEDES 300 SL last one on G Reg 22,000 miles from new 1 owner I owned it for seven months, the soft top, the soft top had never come out of his hatch 🤣 like brand-new if I had this car today at an 80 grand car when I say, mint mint out the box, not like the crap you see today I’ve got bored with it I sold it. It was Grey with blue leather so mint that Car I tried to replace my 280, but it was never the same. Car drove better, but didn’t get the looks of the Pagoda. They are completely different Car, but there was a lot of shit about on the road. If you want to buy a proper right and drive, 280 Pagoda in proper condition £120 + easy don’t get it confused with American left hand drives because few mates have had them and they cheap to buy . Right hand 280 different gravy 🤣

[@gracemaggiescott]

That car is perfectly fine

[@joemorgan636]

@ 🤣🤣🤣

[@joemorgan636]

Midnight blue, 230 SL is completely rough I mean rough I know what good one of those are and that’s far off it. It is embarrassing need a proper few quid thrown at it you tight ass. If cannot afford to run one as should do not buy it mate I wanna stick the CHROME on with a bit of mastic oh my god make me Cringe seriously embarrassing also 230-250 are nowhere nowhere now the money as a 280 completely different dough totally especially in Right hand drive.

never call them pagodas. not cool. tacky. i've known them all from 230 on. never callled them pagoda.

[@MikesMercsandothercars]

Yes you are probably right...half the people wouldn't know what a Pagoda is. Mike

[@joemorgan636]

So would you call him then? Tell me

[@joemorgan636]

I owned 3 off them