Classical Composer Reacts to The Poet and the Pendulum (Nightwish) | The Daily Doug (Episode 66)

[@billattercliffe8655]

2005 was the year Tarja was fired/quit (it was both) and also the year of the vicious fan backlash that drove Tuomas to the point of suicide. Even the Prime Minister of Finland chimed in on the controversy. The original singer for this song was Anette Olzen on the album "Dark Passion Play", but the song had been written before she joined the band. Anette did not have the range for this song, hence the use of the boy soprano Guy Elliott and another boy for the spoken passages, whose name I have forgotten. When Floor replaced Anette mid-tour (another drama moment) she volunteered to sing all of these passages, as she had the range, but Tuomas opted to keep the boy soprano for the opening and the spoken parts in order to retain the sense of innocence. You comment about the musical inadequacy of "the blade keeps on descending" has more to do with who is speaking these words - the mother of Tuomas. It is a mother speaking to her son in his moment of torment, hence the simplicity. The reference to "infanticide" and "cut in half" has been thought to be a reference to the killing of the band, Tuomas' child. Good catch on the "second robber to the right of Christ". "The end" at the beginning and "the beginning" at the end, represents the closing of the Tarja era and the starting of a new chapter. One thing that is very important about understanding Nightwish: they all only do what the idea behind the song requires and nothing more. Whether that's the complexity of the music, the guitarist with no solo, or Floor sitting on the drum kit riser, they never do more than the idea requires. So yes, this could have been a more complex piece of music, but it didn't need to be.

[@markopem]

Excellent comment. One little remark, Anette's name is Olzon and she was also great. In fact I prefer the original studio version with her on vocals. She sings with less dramatization than Floor and she has more of a nasal timber with a certain charm and still very deep and emotional.

[@Nikioko]

It wasn't less that a state affair. But apart from that, it was also a hard personal decision as Tuomas and Tarja are friends since their childhood.

[@EriahSylverstone]

Another thing to point out is that Tuomas, whenever they play this song, asks the sound engineer to turn off the vocals in his in-ear monitors so he can't hear them while he's playing. Because he can't bear to hear them. And yeah, music that is needlessly complex tends to lose its value, because then it sounds like it's trying too hard. Or it's doing something just for the sake of filling in a gap that doesn't even need to be filled. Empuu playing guitar literally the entire song while "Floor is working" doesn't help things. And them performing isn't a job, it's literally just that. A performance. They do it to enjoy it. If some are playing and others aren't, then okay. And as you even said, there doesn't need to be lyrics the whole song. Floor was backstage drinking water and resting her voice for the time the instrumental solo was going on. Just like there doesn't need to be guitar the whole time. You do what you need to make it sound good. And Troy wasn't present at all during this song, because he wasn't in the band when it was written. So he was backstage resting too. But anyways, I would suggest The Greatest Show On Earth as a later song. Further down the road, after you have a better feel of the band and members. Do it as something to build up to, if you plan on doing more of Nightwish.

[@cedricwilson1593]

@@markopem her last name is Olsson, the Z is just for the stage. Same goes with Marko / Marco, most ppl aren't familiar with a K in the name.

[@MickaellyLeechhgcster]

"So yes, this could have been a more complex piece of music, but it didn't need to be." YEEEEEEEES!!!! And it's absolutely fantastic for this!

[@lenn741]

When you said Empuu was having a siesta, he's there to support and check on Tuomas because this is a really emotional piece for him. A bit later you see Marco by his side as well.

[@thetacochannel8817]

@@robertlinscott1551 Wel yeah he hadn’t known the band before

[@kurtball1228]

@@thetacochannel8817 In the same token of appreciation I felt the same way when I first heard of Nightwish 5 years ago. He's just doing a reaction as everyone does reactions to bands/groups that they never heard before.

[@wesleymahan5903]

Tuomas and Annette start crying during some Sydney footage of this song.

[@amygoodson-catlady]

I believe Tuomas has the vocal audio turned off in his monitors during this song. I use music as therapy for depression...and tho this song might hint at the opposite, it's actually very therapeutic for me. So much so, that I've taught myself to sing it (and yes... I can hit all the notes when I'm warmed up!). Sometimes I feel triumphant singing the words, but others, I just sob, tho in a cathartic way! I know Doug didn't understand the band members checking on Tuomas, and that's why we advised you research first. But its ok..Army, don't charge him! One note Doug...you called out a lyric as being not quite right...do remember, the composer is not a native English speaker!

[@GodEmperessEzzi]

not only that but he often does this when he has nothing to play, and I think it's pretty awesome of him to give support when he could just be standing there doing nothing like most guitarists do. I assume doug has never actually played in a rock band otherwise he might recognize that.

[@Mind-your-own-beeswax]

The opening vocal piece is a boy soprano Doug not Floor. 2005 is when Tarja got fired. The words three minutes and counting refer to that exact point in the song and 3 minutes later Tuomas dies in the song.

[@MartijnVos]

I came here to say this. Generally it's easy to tell whether it's Nightwish live, or the backing track: when the backing track plays, you don't see the band on stage. They're not pretending to sing the parts they don't sing. The boy soprano was a recording.

[@sarawussow3123]

Well said. I was hoping someone would point these exact things out.

[@phillee2814]

@@MartijnVos Floor did offer to sing that part as well as the later ones (which she did take over from the boy sopranos) though, but Tuomas preferred to keep that one as a boy soprano.

[@loulagro2315]

@@MartijnVos , Not entirely correct. The backing tracks play when the band is on stage as well. All of the orchestral parts, horns, strings, etc are playing all throughout the song and the band is playing along onstage with it. You said when the backing track plays the band is not onstage...... that is simply not the case. There are times, like the interlude on Ghost Love Score where the band leaves for a couple minutes, or this one in the beginning before they come out and the recorded boy soprano and orchestra plays, but on nearly every song they use backing tracks at the same time they're playing their live parts. The drummer has a click track as well so his timing is perfectly locked into the backing track. That's why they sound so consistent no matter what venue they're playing.

It's easy to be mistaken when it comes to Floor as her range is so wide.

[@DaniFilth87]

"The White Lands of Empathica" is a section in the last volume of Stephen King's Dark Tower series. Spoiler: there lives a creature called Dandelo which feeds on people's emotions. Following the events of Tarja's dismissal, Tuomas found himself covered on many yellow press headlines so that he basically locked himself in and living an escapist lifestyle (song 'Escapist' deals with that), reading and watching movies etc. The spoken words leading into the 'Dark Passion Play' part are partially taken from the Stephen King/Richard Bachman dystopian novel 'The Long Walk' which is about 100 17 years old participating in the eponymous walk competing against each other. If one stops, he dies. The spoken obituary at the end: the meaning of the year 2005 has already been covered in several comments. The symbolism behind the 1000 pages is a clean slate (as you already guessed). It's a continuation of the 'please no more words' from the second verse: he got rid of this burden so that he can die in peace (hence the smile). Tuomas stated in several interviews that this song was his musical suicide. He cherishes life too much to be able to commit a real one, but he needed to exorcise himself after all the things leading to and following Tarja's dismissal.

[@barbaravance6774]

Underrated comment.

[@marievie91]

Wow okay I just learned a couple new things from this comment I'd never heard before, thank you!

[@stch1976]

Thank you so much for this comment!

[@emilyrattini8462]

...wow

[@vsGoliath96]

This makes a lot of sense, considering the drastically different feel and tone of the next few albums. Tuomas killed old Nightwish with the very first song of Dark Passion Play and the hiring of Annette and nothing was quite the same afterwards, even when Floor took over after Annette.

[@terywoodsr.8690]

Okay, no Emppu was not taking a break! He was making sure Toumas was okay. The question he asked, 'So, how is she doing?' the answer... 'Fucking awesome!' This song, is/was his suicide letter to music. How the breakup affected him, since the 'Dark Passion Play was already written when the split happened. Also at the end, Marko and Emppu support him, since this song still has a major effect on him. The vocal track has been removed from his in ears by his request. The last section are quotes from his mother who helped him deal with the stress and depression enough to go on. Also please remember this was live, and in the middle of the set. The rest other's have commented on, so I don't have to.... Floor usually does a descending chromatic on the word descending. There is so much about this band. I'm a fan from the Tarja era. Met them and heard them while doing concert security during their Sleeping Sun/ Decades Tour. Wasn't a big fan of Annete, but huge fan of Floor. All of Toumas's music has a deeper meaning. You have to remember Tarja and Toumas were friends in school, if you look you can find them doing a school talent show together. Yes, he loves Minor 3rds, uses themes and variations often. To be honest, if you do research, Nightwish should be thought as a Super Group. Toumas Holopainen, is the main conductor, songwriter, band leader. Emmpu, is a guitar virtuoso. He has a talent for not over or underplaying his part. He can shred, when needed or support with a solid melody line. He doesn't have to prove he can play, because everyone knows he can play. Marko, the Bass player is a multi instrumentalist, singer/songwriter, and had two other successful groups before joining NW. Troy Donokley, plays pipes, reads, guitar, Ebow, tin whistles, and anything they put in his hand, also being a singer/songwriter for years. Floor Jansen, singer songwriter, multi-instrumentalist, has had two former groups After Forever and Revamp, has sang in Mayan, and has worked with producer composer Arjen Anthony Lucasson on many projects. Floor's sister is also a very talented singer. When ReVamp broke up, her guitar player with one of Floor's friends (Simone) created Epica, with Simone Simmons. Simone was once a back up singer for ReVamp. And Kai Hato, from Wintersun; replaced Jukka on drums... well, both are master players laying ghost notes under and over the main bass line. You have just stepped into a different realm in music... Welcome!

[@randyhenderson6166]

I consider this to be one of the top 10 greatest rock compositions in rock history. Right up there with Bohemian Rhapsody, Hotel California, Heaven and Hell, and American Pie.

[@xfortunesquex]

Some background info: 7:23 Emppu (guitarist) didn't have anything to play at that point. He's going over to Tuomas to check on him and see how he's doing. Tuomas admits that even many years later, this song hurts a lot, and has the sound guys turn off his in-ear monitors for some portions of the song. Emppu is the only remaining original member of the band, aside from Tuomas, the composer. You may catch some crap for that, but it's not like you knew what was going on 🤷‍♀️ Also as a sidenote, the beginning was done indeed done by a boy choir member. All the original parts that are sung that high were done by the same singer, but Floor was able to sing that high and do them. Tuomas wanted to at least keep the introduction as the original singer.

[@Doug.Helvering]

Wow. Thanks. Mea Culpa.

[@xfortunesquex]

@@Doug.Helvering No worries :) A lot of people first seeing this wonder what he's up to, so you're not the only one. And Emppu is known for being a ham on stage when he's not shredding the hell out of that guitar. I should add as well: 2005 was the year that they fired Tarja. Tuomas and Tarja were friends since childhood so it really was a very ugly split where both sides were immensely hurt and very not okay at all- hence this song. Tarja has songs of her own about it, too, but I can't recommend one offhand because I'm not as versed in her solo work. Excellent analysis of the theory btw; it's wonderful to hear about this stuff from someone who understands all the intricacies of it!

[@naphackDT]

@@xfortunesquex Off the top of my head, there is "I walk alone" which is more a tribute to her fan club that allowed her to pivot into her own personal career relatively smoothly after being fired from the band and "Until my last breath" from her second album where she protests about the fact that somehow the story had shifted to her being the villain and that nobody would even listen to her side of the story ("how can I still justify when you denied my voice?") There may be more tracks on her first album besides the aforementioned "I walk alone" but My Winterstorm really isn't a very memorable album. If there are more, I don't know of them.

[@toweri_li]

@@xfortunesquex The songs relating to the split up are: - Nightwish (lyrics Annette Olson) - Bye Bye Beautiful - Tarja Turunen - I Walk alone (kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZPIgomwjdunpc0) - and then this personal account by Tuomas. One can see the to-and-fro dicussion going on there...

[@cheeseisjar3058]

NERD

[@damonbryan7232]

To see Tuomas sing along with the last part. Guts me everytime. Knowing these are actually words his parents said to him. Being a fan through the "end of a era". Seeing all the hell that came from it. Knowing it damn near killed him.

[@adrammelech6323]

Doug: Major D, B flat. Me: tears and sadness.

[@Carol_65]

❤

[@korvkioskshelvete]

When the whispering voice says ”I’ve only have 3 minutes and counting” there is exactly 3 minutes until the blade beheads Tuomas...

[@jonathanfairchild]

I was wanting to go back and check that. Thanks for confirming that!

[@adamdriverlatinoamerica8836]

Ok ok ok ok!!!! SHOEMAKER HAS to be the next one please!!! (some research needed for that one too)

[@lucreziatrevellyan5499]

Yes!!

[@GustafB]

Better to start off the new tracks properly with Music before taking on Shoemaker (look up backstory on this).

[@MaHa-py4ys]

Like Gustaf I would go for Music first. The idea of the personification of Music talking to mankind is mind-boggling to me. The sheer thought is already a masterstroke and Tuomas masters the marriage between lyrics and composition like not many. I hesitate to say "like none", but that is because I know I have not heard everything that is out there.

[@matsv201]

Shoemaker pushed every other nightwish song down a peg for me. And its still normal length

[@pfeuhpfeuh4447]

Shoemaker is one of the most touching track ever.

[@rekakovacs5275]

It would be nice to see you listen to an actual studio recording, where the symphonic parts are even more crisp and noticeable. Maybe "Shoemaker" from their latest album? Tuomas also has an almost purely instrumental solo album called "The Life and Times of Scrooge" that showcases his symphonic talents. My personal favorite is the "Into the West" track. Thanks for your videos, super interesting for someone who studies music!

[@k.l.7788]

And Human Nature cd two is a masterpiece!

[@bjornseine2342]

I'd also recommend "Shoemaker" (research Eugene Shoemaker before that; the song is based on him). The "Life and Times of Scrooge" songs are also very good, and I have not seen many people react to them (if any). I don't know which song would be my favourite, though I don't think it would be "Into the West" (Maybe "Cold Hearth of the Klondike" or "Go Slowly Now, Sands of Time"?). That would be nice to see as well!

[@marcoheinrich9518]

Goodbye papa - such a treasure.

[@richardgoddard37]

@@bjornseine2342 The Last Sled for me, it's gorgeous.

[@TheMateriaalkunde]

@@k.l.7788 Indeed. "Music" and "Pan" are good seconds. Real joy for composers, I guess.

[@brianwillson9567]

One of the greatest Nightwish songs (if not the best) brought about by fall out with singer 1, but needed singer 3 to do it full justice. Floor does not just sing this, she lives it and draws everyone in to the emotion.

[@DrumsAndGadgets]

The guitarist going to keyboardist has actual heartbreaking backstory. When the song was new it was quite hard to Tuomas (keyboard, songwriter) to perform this song. The huge backslash from firing Tarja and yellow press + fans giving him hard time was wearing Tuomas out badly. And Tuomas was in a very dark places in his mind. So during concerts guys in the band, especially Emppu (guitarist) went to check him and see that he is "surviving" the song trough. Tuomas usually at the time asked sound guy to kill the singers sound from in-ears just to avoid the lyrics. A few years back Tuomas has said that the case is not that anymore and that he is not the same person as back then. He has handeled the issue and while the song has its painful history, it is a song among others.

[@MrBvhawk12]

Also as a side note, when Annette Olzon joined the group, she would have a hard time getting through to the end of the song without breaking down. There are several videos where Marco, the bass player would fill in for her. Of course Annette was going through her own rough spell in her life as well. Be well Marco, see ya soon!!

[@IsaacCoverstone]

The guitarist that's taking a break is Emppu, he's famous for pulling practical jokes on the other members as well walking around the stage and doing little arm touches for moral, I suppose. The comic relief of the band.

[@DzeiEidz]

Unplugging Floor's ear monitor in the middle of the song for example :D Not in this song though.

[@richardwest6358]

And is now the only other original member of the band.

[@galadballcrusher8182]

here though he wasn't making jokes so much as checking on Tuomas who has always a couple issues with this song (as it represents a very dark moment in his past ) to the point he prefers to keep the in ear monitors muted at some parts. So Emmpu here was trying check if he is ok and to keep it lightened up

[@janneboman8573]

Indeed, especially when he is standing next to Floor

[@annukkas]

@@galadballcrusher8182 Thanks for mentioning that. ❤️

[@franshinlopen2166]

"He's like, taking a siesta?" Emppu does this often when Tuomas has given him nothing to do in a certain part. He will just throw up his hands and emote "What am I doing here?". Emppu is a joker, and has by far the most interaction with the audience. He will acknowledge you if you get his attention, and he throws lots of personalized guitar picks every concert.

[@Nikioko]

Emppu and Tuomas are the remaining two original band members...

[@jklas4591]

@@Nikioko Well, they are best friends and been together the longest.

[@duikmans]

@@Nikioko But at the time of this recording Marko was also still in the band.

[@Nikioko]

@@duikmans Marko is no original Nightwish member.

[@duikmans]

@@Nikioko I know that in the very beginning it was Tuomas, Emppu and Tarja, but that's 25 years ago.

[@somedude5414]

Love your on-the-fly theoretical analysis, instead of the usual "Oo, ahh" of most reacters. Damn good ears, too.

[@NickBR57]

Rewatching as I love your reactions and analysis so much. I laughed anew at the phrase "Nigjtwish tune" 😀 Tune! Rather more than that I think.

[@rusty3964]

This performance is a true masterpiece!

[@one42chrisp]

2005 was the year that Tarja was fired and the whole world, or so it seemed, dumped on Tuomas and drove him into depression. This song is his virtual suicide, so he didn’t have to do it for real. By the way, if you type “Tarja” into google translate as Finnish and press the speaker, it will give you the correct pronunciation, the “j” is pronounced as a “y”. I really enjoyed your insights into this song.

[@galadballcrusher8182]

and incidentaly same goes for the J in Floor Jansen

[@Nrde]

Or correct pronunciation of all the members of the band kzbin.info/www/bejne/eqHEoaGjjdR8kM0

[@one42chrisp]

@Tuntemattomin That’s a great video, thanks for the link!

[@Nikioko]

Not just in Finnish. In literally every European language including Latin, Italian, French, German, Dutch, Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, Polish, Czech... ;-)

[@MrJef06]

@@Nikioko not in French...

[@Medieval_Arpad_cooks]

Emppu is checking in on Tuomas who sometimes is so touched by this that he is not having the vocals in his in-ears. I think this song is the main reason Tuomas is still with us. He had a massive crush on Tarja. I would suggest their version of the Phantom of the Opera, also showcasing Marko

[@xfortunesquex]

Seconding the Phantom of the Opera from The End of an Era. It showcases what Marko can really do, and it is peak Tarja in Nightwish. Highly recommended! Edit: did not see the added comment about a crush until now. While there is evidence for and against it, the only one who really knows is Tuomas, and he is very happily married now.

[@WisdomKeeper11]

He did not have a crush on Tarja.... He was in love with Johanna Kurkela.

[@Nrde]

Tuomas having a "crush" on Tarja keeps coming up, but little or no evidence of that is ever presented. There might have been or might not, but Tarja was already married to Marcelo Cabuli, or had at least dated him several years at that time. It was more about losing a friend in bad terms than losing the target of your romantic feelings.

[@Medieval_Arpad_cooks]

@@Nrde That's interesting but makes sense. And Tuomas a bit less of a dick about the whole thing. Still bad choice about firing somebody directly after a concert and publicly, but we all eff up.

[@FrozenRose816]

@@Nrde And the breakup of a friendship that deep and long term can parallel the turmoil of a romantic breakup. Sometimes the end of a friendship can even be worse, especially in this situation when there was such a deep musical connection and synergy between them as well.

[@damienmaynard8892]

The boy soprano at the start was Guy Elliott from St Mary's Reigate Choir School. Also appearing on the backing track, arranged and conducted by Tuomas Holopainen and Pip Williams, were the London Symphony Orchestra & The London Metro Voices Choir....... around 7:01 Emppu checks to see if Tuomas is ok due to the massive emotional content of the song (refer to Bill Attercliffe's comment). Emppu usually plays lead & rythym throughout nearly every Nightwish song! ................. 11:35 "3 minutes and counting" - 16:45 (including your comments and replay) Tuomas "Cuts his head off"....check the timing without pausing!!!

[@talismanmia2537]

In a recent edition of Iron Maiden's fan club magazine, Steve Harris lists this as one of the three songs he would pick if stuck on a deserted island, or something along those lines. Early Genesis and Tull are the other 2 tracks.

[@NewBritainStation]

Yeah, I would love to see some reactions/analysis of early Genesis, Tull, Yes, and especially King Crimson. Crimson would be amazing. Starless, Red, Fracture, plus a Crimson improv or two. Oh, and Discipline and Thrak. So many choices...

[@westy1637]

I watched your initial reaction to Nightwish out of curiosity but your insight has me hooked. It's so refreshing and eye opening to listen to a perspecting like yours. Great reactions and analysis :)

[@aleksb8577]

there's a part in this song when there's a child saying only three minutes and counting, if you can playback and see what's gonna happen exactly three minutes after that(the death of the poet).. Nightwish are simply amazing! not just a regular band!

[@Doug.Helvering]

That's a cool factoid. Thanks for sharing.

[@adriannicholson3365]

But why three minutes? This section is suicidal ideation (how do I want to die and what will people feel about it etc). Following on from Pacific he breathes out and slips under the waves. Three minutes is how long we survive without oxygen.

[@CapitanDePlai]

@@adriannicholson3365 wow interesting

[@themajor743]

@@adriannicholson3365 Fascinating comment. Thanks Adrian!

[@janilohtander5808]

Emppu is quiet genious when hes not playing, those smiles and smirks :P

[@ExaltedDuck]

This song is Tuomas Holopainen magnum opus. So evocative, so painful and real, and yet so chillingly beautiful.

[@julianmorgan5994]

What a masterpiece this song is. I hadn't heard it for so long. The music in part 3 is just SO beautiful! such a treat for any true musician and all Nightwish fans. Incredible.

[@ferencercseyravasz7301]

This is what happens in truly great masterpieces. You catch a glimpse of an enormous yet very human and therefore very flawed soul in its absolute nakedness. I think true art needs that sort of inner nudity, that commitment to show yourself exactly as you are, in the full glory of your imperfections and weaknesses, without mitigation, without masks or veils. Which in turn means that you're vulnerable of course,. Many people will get it as intended, many will be touched and transformed by it (I've seen grown men cry when hearing this song for the first time and I also tear up sometimes as a 47 years old musicologist), it's cathartic and it makes you a better person. And of course some will have adverse reactions, some will find it pathetic. This is a world of 7.8 billion different worlds and if you want to leave an imprint on it, those are the prices and the risks. Tuomas often speaks about how he doesn't understand why people show devotion and admiration towards him. He understands that they love his music, but he says he's just a human being. I guess he's both right and wrong about that for the reasons I've mentioned before. We know more about his inner world than he thinks and far less than we think.

[@crabuki1273]

The final section, Mother and Father, represents him coming out of the period of darkness with the help of his friends and (you guessed it) his parents. In my mind, for all that's worth, this section is meant to represent something solid to hold onto, to steady yourself against so he could move on into the rest of his life. Solid, predictable, dependable.

[@FrozenRose816]

"The blade will keep descending/all you need is to feel my love": You'll always get negativity thrown your way, but at the end of the day remember the people that love and support you will always be there for you no matter what. "In the end I will always love you". My favorite part of the song.

[@bigg2988]

@@FrozenRose816 Simple. Powerful.

[@RÅNÇIÐ]

*Wintersun - Time live at Sonic Pump Studios Remaster* It's gotta happen. Their drummer is playing for Nightwith now btw.

[@MrFluKeKe]

I second

[@sovokentertainment1458]

Third

[@ArchjSM]

If dream theater has too much double bass drums for him, I don't see him getting away from wintersun alive

[@Babewatcherbob]

I fourth

[@danielwalz5111]

He wasn't just messing around when he was talking. This is a very emotional song and he was making sure his friend was alright.

[@eddiecreutzburg7375]

The last part is Tuomas mother and father talking to him, reassuring him, IMO.

[@Darth_Nycta_13]

It actually is. Some of the words are actually what his parents said to him.

[@Doug.Helvering]

I thought that might be the case. How brave of him to write such a personal and vulnerable piece.

[@barbaravance6774]

Yep! That's what his mother told him

[@talaniel]

@@Doug.Helvering Yeah, in some interview, Tuomas said he asks for vocals to be turned off in his monitor during this song.

[@pete_lind]

@@Doug.Helvering Guitarist Emppu is there with Tuomas to make sure he is OK . Later both guitarist and bass player are there . City 2007 , Tuomas answer to question why this song is the one he likes the most right now . Short summary of that Finnish version . " Its therapeutic , In that song is all the bad feelings i had in 2005 , i love life and world is beautiful place , If i have as a compositor an possibility in a song to kill my self and share that feeling with people its therapeutic " In Finnish "Se vaan sattuu olemaan lempibiisini. Siinä kappaleessa musiikin terapeuttinen voima tulee selkeästi esille. Siihen biisiin kulminoituu kaikki se paha olo, jota tunsin vuonna 2005. Mie olen erittäin elämää rakastava ihminen. Maailma on mielestäni äärimmäisen kaunis paikka. Mutta jos minulla on biisintekijänä mahdollisuus konkreettisesti tappaa itseni biisissä, ja vielä jakaa se tunne maailman kanssa, niin onhan se äärimmäisen terapeuttista." The whole interview www.city.fi/ilmiot/tuomas+holopainen/2436 , people can try google translation , bet it will have some funny errors .

[@andreblaza]

Hey Doug, what a masterclass! Awesome explanation about the song's progression. I totally agree that it ended optimistically. Thanks for such great content. Cheers from Brazil!

[@joefish9300]

Not only the child soprano, but the lovely third act, where floor shifts into her high soprano voice, and along with the duet of Chello and violin, brings tears to my eyes every time. A true musical work of art. Props to all in the band. Outstanding.

[@puddlesplasher-inc]

i have never actually been able to listen to this song fully, only in breaks. Watching this video with you was wonerful because I got to take breaks and digest the enormity of its meaning. And the hope at the ed landed a LOT more when you explained it. Thank you for this reaction.

[@hackebeil20]

people able to tell the key of a song just from hearing it seem like wizards to me :) well done sir!

[@ulfcarlsson9083]

Thanks for a great reaction! Your reactions are rather unique in that you analysing the composition not the singing, and that makes extra fun to listen to. Please do more! Regads, Ulf

[@itomg]

"A hopeful ending", yeah. To me that's an interesting observation, given that this composition was meant to be an alternative to suicide. Now suicide is not actually seeking death. It's seeking relieve! It's seeking a face of non-pain. So in a way it's looking for a new beginning, hope beyond the pain. That's how I perceived it. At the very end after Floor sings this repetition of chords the instrumental melody slows down during a final 'drop'. It feels like letting go and I've noticed that I sigh in that moment. Letting go creates free space, giving rise to a new beginning.

[@GALiANTzGAMER]

Great reaction! A band very similar to Nightwish is Sonata Arctica. They have some really interesting songs to break down. Top picks would be Gravenimage, The Ruins of My Life, Wolf and Raven, Draw Me and White Pearl Black Oceans

[@GlennWH26]

I feel that the "thousand pages of erased text" refers to all the songs he would have written for Tarja to sing, which would now never exist.

[@Donna-C]

Or, everything that they have done together - their history together erased. Probably both! That’s the clever part of Tuomas’ writing - it’s open to interpret in your own way

[@goviki6124]

If you really want to see and hear something amazing then I would recommend Epica - Sancta Terra (with Floor Jansen). Live performance with orchestra.

[@horseshoe_nc]

That had to be an absolutely massive sound board. Microphones everywhere, drums, Floor, Simone, the choir and all those orchestral instruments. Absolutely mind boggling. That had to have a truly talented and experienced sound engineer.

[@TheGayRaven]

Not to mention the choir too!

[@vogel2280]

@@horseshoe_nc That was not a one-man job, simply because it would be impossible to keep track of all those mics and because the channels would be beyond that persons reach. Typically you would use one board for for the choir, one for the orchestra and one for the band.

[@horseshoe_nc]

@@vogel2280 I figured it would be a team of sound engineers, just wasn't 100% sure.

[@steveakhurst7845]

Great reaction, love the way you see each song in a composer way, and the way you can see the structure and talk about it. Like yourself I am relatively new to discovering nightwish and wish I had learnt about them earlier, but happy that I have found them as they are a great band ! Tuomas, in my humble opinion, is a great composer ! as well as being a great keyboardist !

[@jimmyggs91]

Oh yes, I'm glad you reacted to this song! It's very deep, especially to Tuomas (the keyboardist/composer). It's about how he felt after the band decided to fire Tarja Turunen, the first Nightwish vocalist, one of his closest friends from a long date. He said this song - and the whole "Dark Passion Play" album - saved his life. Yeah he was that depressed. I'm sure the Nightwish army can give more details on that. :)

[@shifty7629]

For a Tarja song I highly recommend The Phantom of the Opera (yes, the Andrew Lloyd Weber arrangement) from the End of an Era concert. That was the last concert she performed with the band, and even though she was sick all day, she absolutely nailed the performance. Marko really shows his vocal chops in that one too, playing the part of the phantom.

[@grrrexky]

Nightwish arrangement

[@bertbouwhuis]

"They Really are a great band"... got that right; very enjoyable and educational (!!) reaction. Loved it !

[@amherstburgerpicker5786]

Epica sancta terra live at the retrospect show featuring our Valkyrie Floor Jansen as a guest vocalist!!!

[@julianmorgan5994]

Oh and dear god Kai Hato is SUCH a good drummer, what an absolute powerhouse! absolutely love it.

[@-maskedfigure-6665]

Been missing out....exactly how I feel. How did this band not pop up on my radar 15 years ago?.

[@Barah87]

I used to jam out to this in college and connected with some of the lyrics. Your comments on the last segment on the landing on the 5th d explains to me why this was always a hopeful song for me.

[@Thorgrim247]

Great reaction, analysis, and commentary on this very special composition. 2005 was one year after he dismissed Tarja from the band. The erased text I think refers to all of his poetry and lyrics being for naught, now that his dream of Nightwish was done. It ended badly and he felt this would tarnish his legacy as the writer for Nightwish. The ending represents the death of a part of Tuomas' soul and burying his mental anguish. This is what will allow him to start over with a new singer and musical inspiration. To me the ending is very much like a funeral dirge. this is why it sounds hopeful, yet sad for the past. The end of what Nightwish was, and then the beginning of a new Nightwish. This song is filled with metaphors and imagery. If you want to know more, check out the yt video "The Open Letter". In this you will see the actual letter that Tuomas and the boys gave to Tarja in 2004. It explains why she was dismissed from the band. It will also give you some insight into Tuomas' character and love for music. See link. Loved it my friend. Peace.🎶🎶🎶😊🤘👍✌ kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJPOoYCdptZrprc - The Open Letter to Tarja

[@kingcognito]

Wow, great timing! Just saw the first two Nightwish videos and hoped to see Poet and the Pendulum as well - and here it is, few hours later... :) Thank You!

[@christinaalgate4899]

Tuomas the keyboardist writes 95 percent of the songs. He likes Poe and Metallica and sandman. Emppu went and asked Tuomas if he was okay. At the end its Marco and Emppu checking on Tuomas. I liked that Floor looks at Tuomas while she's sitting down. Dead boy's Poem from Buenos Aires or The greatest show on Earth. Emppu is the only original band member besides Tuomas. Marco was there when she got fired.

[@maimos1]

There are some things you got right but not all, I am sure the army will tell you more. I ll just note that the words in the last section are supposed to be said by his parents after his death. Also the band members are just checking on him because he is obviously very emotional when he plays this song, even after so many years.

[@hedwig8007]

In my understanding it is not after the death but actually almost paraphrasing what Tuomas's parents told him when he was deeply depressed

[@melgibsonfan9082]

So every show he plays this he needs the band to come make sure he's okay? Maybe they should bring him cookies because his own song scares him.

[@themajor743]

Good catch - there are two characters here - Toamas himself and his allegorical counterpart - "The Poet". He ascribes the words his parents said to him by way of consolation to the Poet's experience meeting his parents in the afterlife - having just died beneath the blade of EA Poe's diabolical machine.

[@TheIpadfanatic]

Apologies. But I believe it was a boy soprano who sang the intro. Love your reviews and analysis.

[@Doug.Helvering]

Ah...makes sense.

[@Mtaalas]

​@@Doug.Helvering Yes, They had Anette Olson as singer at the time who couldn't for the life of her go that high with the right tone, so Tuomas used boy soprano for the narrative parts and the pacific. But now that they have Floor, she sings some of the parts orignally written for the boys soprano since she can go that high with the right tone :)

[@bartoszko82]

@@Mtaalas I`m not gonna argue that Floor can go higher and overall is more capable than Anette, but stating that boy soprano was used because Anette was lacking, is a bit far fetched. It was Anette to start singing Pacific part on her own, so Floor added just the ending. All the others parts are untouched, so by your logic, Floor is not able to replace that boy as well... or, maybe more probable, it was just Tuomas idea to use something different.

[@mnewm21]

@shmadz my thoughts on this - Tarja wasn't in the band then as this is after she was sacked written about Tuomas' feelings etc of the situation the band found themselves in. It would have been written deliberately for a boy soprano. It isn't the high notes that you are necessarily chasing it is the purity of tone that they have. The sound is very different and if you got Floor or Tarja or any mature female to sing the same note the sound feels very different.

[@juanmendez3770]

@shmadz The song is about Tarja’s departure from Nightwish , not written for Tarja to perform.

[@horseshoe_nc]

Fantastic video. The elders of the Nightwish army has filled you in on most everything you didn't fully catch. I don't mean that in any negative way, the song is packed with deep meaning. I'm still learning about aspects of this song, mostly from videos like yours and the comments on them. Perfect example, I didn't know what made the ending feel so hopeful, now I do, by landing on the 5th, thanks to you.

[@ilhadi]

Gotta remind myself to open up the circle of fifths the next time I'm watching your vids. You schooled me dude 🤣🤣

[@Nikioko]

You are absolutely right about the G minor fifth. This passage is about his parants comforting him and giving him hope to move on after he was already close to end his life. A very powerful line.

[@jessejamieson7428]

Was a child soprano singing in the beginning. The song is hard for Thoumas to play or listen to. So Emppu and Mario go check to see if he is ok and how he is feeling.

[@MultiJejje]

Actually they come and show they support what happened with Tarja. Because they were with the band when band decided to fire Tarja. They do it to show it was their mutual agreement. Tuomas got all the blame by the fans and even Finnish prime minister had to comment about the situation. Marco later revealed he was the one who was the first one to say Tarja must leave.

[@johnlanham9057]

@@MultiJejje it is support, but more than that; they ARE checking on him. You can see him mouth the words "I’m OK" at one point.

[@taavihorila3726]

@@johnlanham9057 I doubt he said "I'm OK". Maybe just "OK" since that is used in Finland too. Tuomas, Marco and Emppu are all finns and speaks finnish with each other. Why would they speak english?

[@Honken55]

@@taavihorila3726 joo ok. Yes ok, in finnish OK is kind of international used in most language. Orginates from military 0k as in zero kills

[@TxFlyBoy1]

WoW! Wonderful reaction, analysis and breakdown of the different elements that make this performance so special. After watching this, I am convince that you may be one of the few who could react, analyze and breakdown Nightwish performing "Song of Myself" (Live at Wacken) and do justice to this most excellent performance. Thank you for your most excellent service to the music community.

[@grizdotcom812]

Re: “write that guy a part” Guarantee Empu was trying to keep him loose knowing how hard the song is for him to play.... precursor to he and Marko going to him at the end of the song for support...

[@Gibbetoo]

Emppu: "Kaikki hyvin?" ---> you good?, Tuomas: "Joo o.k." ---> yes o.k.

[@randyburrill2340]

Watching Doug and his perfect pitch is just so enjoyable.

[@Jurgen_Ibro]

This song explains everything for those who know what happened back in 2005 which culminated with the concert "End of an Era" which was also the last concert of their first vocalist Tarja Turunen. The dark passion play relates with the huge backlash that the band received after firing Tarja and the big uncertainty that followed. There were also rumours that it was the end of the band. The beginning relates with the arrival of the other vocalist Anette Olzon, where many of the old fans accused the band of turning into a pop band, but anyway many more new fans came for them, till Floor Jansen brought the awakening and made everyone happy. Sadly the male vocalist Marko Hietala left. He was the best vocalist for me and I would have loved it a lot if they had done more songs with him in lead vocals.

[@kristenk708]

I'm kinda new, why did Tarja leave/was fired?

[@Jurgen_Ibro]

@@kristenk708 She was fired because she was not a team player. Her husband played also a part.

[@ChrisBach1138]

Doug, you said that you needed to listen to this a few times more to really get a handle on the totality of the piece. I would be VERY interested to hear a breakdown of this piece, with the benefit of hindsight, multiple sessions, and knowledge of the band behind you. This song is absolutely incredible and I could listen to you talk about music all day.

[@SuperVirus1978]

I agree with you. You can listen to this song for many times and you will discover something new every time. I discovered another interesting fact about the song: The whisper at the start of the song is played in reverse... It seems Tuomas is very good in hiding easter eggs in his songs.

[@athlonen]

If you notice through parts of the video behind the song, you'll see ravens... a nod to Poe again, with The Raven.

[@themajor743]

@@athlonen And of course the fading heartbeat - a nod to "The Telltale Heart"

[@discostoo]

Marko nailing that tough bass section when singing always impresses me.

[@vsGoliath96]

This is probably the most intense performance of this song I've seen.

[@MultiBadboy666]

Love your insights on the theory behind some parts and why they choose to play it like they did, hope to see more of that !

[@stevelux9854]

20:00 Concerning "the blade descending": I don't think anything extra needed to be added because visually and musically the descending blade becomes your everything. It's the focus of your entire attention as you're secured to the sacrificial altar - you're focused upon the mechanism which will violently and senselessly end you. The blade becomes your everything and your entire prior existence fades to nothing. Hopes, dreams, aspirations, loves and hatreds - all become meaningless in the face of your impending and certain doom.

[@paulmartin7241]

Excellent choice of song , Welcome to the Nightwish family !

[@eddyirons]

Suggestion: Iron Maiden "Seventh son of a seventh son " whole album go through. Would be curious about what you think of it

[@incrediblepony]

Didn't realize these uploads were so new - great to see music professionals in any genre reacting to Nightwish. Because, as you said; they're a great band. They're an amazing experience. No matter if it's live or just their albums. They take you through your paces.

[@katherinegibson8791]

I'd love to see Sancta Terra by Epica and Floor

[@MartijnVos]

Seconded. Sancta Terra with Floor is truly a spectacular performance. They've got a metal band with two excellent sopranos, orchestra, and a full choir. (If you watch it and wonder why Simone Simons' (the other soprano and singer of Epica) headbanging is a bit lackluster; she was very pregnant during that performance.)

[@alejandromoya7]

Simone Simons is not a vocal-range "soprano", is a amazing "mezzo-soprano".

[@wolframreactor74]

This is a better selection stabat mater dolorosa kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJnXgIKIjrl6rpo. There are too many versions of the Sancta Terra video with overdubbing of the album recording in the live video. I.e. Simone singing both parts...

[@stevegray1308]

You are right about the mixing. Not only is each member of the band excellent at their job but the "behind the scenes" members of the band - the sound crew, the stage and lighting technicians, the pyrotechnics people - are also excellent and all directed by Tuomas, the heart of the band.

[@bl4ckfl4g]

I’ve listened to hundreds of reactions to Nightwish and you’ve surpassed them all IMO. We hear so much about Floor and for good reason but I love your focus on the composition.

[@nine-dogs]

I like vocal coach reactions to Nightwish. I LOVE composer reactions. Keep it up.

[@VXGaming]

2005, Tuomas (the keyboardist and composer of all Nightwish Songs and Music) wrote this song after making the hard decision to fire Tarja (the original vocalists) from the band. He was so emotional about the whole situation that he had to kill himself in the song so he wouldn't do it in real life. The part when the kid vocals say "now I only have three minutes and counting" is the countdown for when Tuomas 'slices his neck' exactly three minutes after. It's an absolute emotional masterpiece. People often notice this song is also in reverse. If your looking for Tarja music I suggest Phantom of the opera.

[@zanetpieterse7933]

SUPERB musical/technical reaction, dude! Thank for making it so digestible for us non-composing folk! Now that you've done some of the big ones, I would love to see your reaction to their heavier stuff: Song of Myself, Master Passion Greed, Weak Fantasy, Yours is an Empty Hope, Slaying the Dreamer, Shudder Before the Beautiful, Ghost River, Devil and the Deep Dark Ocean, Wishmaster (Tarja), Romanticide... NW Army Namibia checking in! 🌌⛲⚔️🇳🇦🤘🏻

[@mikensonny1]

the or orchestral background music is the London philharmonic, they are used alot in their work.

[@Last_Dance]

The reason Emppu, Marco and Floor was sitting together at the end, was to remind Tuomas (the keyboardist and the writer) that they are a part of HIS family and needs him. And the reason Emppu and Marco stood close to him at the verry last part was to tell him "hey buddy! WE are here for you! cheer up! we got an new angel singin for us! Just look, there she is" AND why Marco (the guitarist) came up to Tuomas (at the beginning of the song) was to make shure Toumas was ok! (if you look closely he says "are you ok?" (he smiles, but look at Toumas face in the next picture of him.....) This song (and the event the lyrics are about) is incredibly emotional for him (For a long time he got the technicians to cut Floors vocals from his ear monitor ...)

[@Kekoapono]

I recommend “Shoemaker” for your next Nightwish reaction. It’s a tribute to planetary scientist Eugene Shoemaker. I think you’ll find it interesting and beautiful.

[@PAULSWorld131]

Hi Doug. Big complements for your classical composer's view and full dissection and analysis of this song. Which is not 'a song' to me, but an absolute symphonical masterpiece. To me personal, the best composition (and lyrics) Tuomas has ever written, and one of the best compositions of our time. And live played into absolute perfection, and, of course, as always, sung by Floor into perfection. I've heard this performance over a thousand times by now, and yes, each time you listen to it again, you discover new layers, and more meaning. It's a non stop journey, into Tuomas's soul, and your own soul, and you never get bored, it's endless. He is not called 'the modern Mozart' without reason. He IS. It is always a kind of magic to me, how musical professionals like you can hear every chord, exactly, major, or minor, flat, first, third, fifth, whatever, by ear. I have a musical conservatorium trained friend who can do that also, but it always stuns and amazes me. I would love to learn that myself, playing my guitar. The guitarist, Emppu, so now and then likes to take the role of the clown and the joker. He is quite a character in the band doing that, and it always brings a smile on my face, even when he does it on very deep and dark parts in the song. NW works with big classical symphonic studio orchestra's for their backingtracks, and also with big choirs, or choir solists. The boy you hear singing in this song is not Floor singing like a choir boy, but a true professional choir-boy singing, so you know. I just subscribed to your channel. I am a complete addict of Nightwish and Floor Jansen reactors, voice coaches etc. They all focus on different things. Some purely on the vocal techniques and abilities of the lead singer(s), some on the typical instruments, brands, and instrumental parts, or riffs etc, some focus on the deeper meaning of the lyrics (like you also did here), some mainly on the total emotional depths expressed, some focus on completely dissolving into the music and flip out completely, which i love, and you add a new layer into this by especially focussing on compositional chords and progressions. Thats a nice addition to my followed collection of reactors. Thank you for your lovely work, you will get much more subscribers soon, because you love what you do, and you are genuine, and add a lot of detailed expertise. That's how we like it! Keep up the good work, greetings from Holland, Paul

[@phillee2814]

Emppu is asking if Tuomas is ok, as this is such a tough song on him emotionally to perform - he even has the vocal part cut from his in-ears for the later part. This is Nightwish being a family and caring for each other. The video direcor makes a good job of not showing it, but Floor also stops her windmilling after a hard look from Marco, and doesn't repeat it. It is the only time I have ever seen her lose empathy with the song she is singing. At the end, both Emppu and Marco (the other members who were in the band at the time of Tarja's firing) go and stand around Tuomas in support. The second robber to the right of Christ cannot be the crucifixion as there was only one to his right. Think instead of paintings of the last supper, and who is that 2nd to the right of Christ? Oh yes, Judas. NOW it makes sense! Remember the part about living long enough to see your friends betray you? The 3 minutes and counting iis exactly before Tuomas mimes beheading himself, which is followed by the fading hearbeat. 2005 is the year that Tuomas was made to realise that if they did not fire Tarja, there wouldn't be a band to fire her from. He was the last in the band to agree, yet he was the one the press and Taja's fans turned on viciously (with Tarja's husband Marcelo gleefully pouring gas on the fire) and blamed for it. That last section that Tuomas has the vocals cut from his in-ears are his mother's words to him.

[@duikmans]

Followed by 4 years of flame wars, when Nightwish fans turned on each other: the Tarja vs Annette camp...

[@TurnFullCircle]

Wow really enjoyed and appreciated your educated take on the superb nightwish. It is so satisfying to find an intelligent mind in this chaotic world. Cheers

[@RaffaPed]

I'm about as musically tone deaf as you can get but I find your deconstruction and analysis of music fascinating. Brilliant work!.

[@kimfabritiusdetengnagel2038]

This was the best analysis of that song ever. A few things. At the speaking "3 minutes and counting" - and until Tuomas cuts his throught, exactly 3 minutes. The use of instruments and the complexity, during the different chapters, reflect the cascades of thoughts, running through his mind during the depression. Other people / reactors instantly recognize this if they have been there themselves (I haven't, so I didn't recognize it). The placing of the band during the chapters also reflects the incidents from 2005 - after Tarja left and everybody blamed Tuomas alone (it was a band decision) - he felt isolated - illustrated by Tuomas alone on piano and all the others sitting in the other end by the drums. Just details to show how well this is performed. Again - great analysis from you👍 Next Nightwish song: 1. How is the Heart from Human Nature album. 2. How is the Heart, from Planet Rock Radio - acoustic version done by Floor and Troy during a promotion tour 👍👌💪🤘🤘🤘👏

[@Ohhelmno]

Obviously by now you know that Floor was not the voice in the opening, but I think it speaks volumes to Floors ability that people think she could’ve been singing and would not have been shocked.

[@mattheweddy2546]

Its really great hearing the fresh perspective breaking down the musical composition so eloquently. I still remember your comment your first time listening when you said "all these rock bands use the same chord progression" I thought...."oh boy, you have no idea"

[@goranelez9956]

This is how professionals do reactions. Respect! "1000 pages" is reference to the fact that Tuomas writes music that's ideal for the singer. He had many ideas for her voice but after firing her all of that is scrapped.

[@buffmaloney]

I loved this song when I first heard it. Then I heard Floor sing it. I was blown away with how she brought out all the emotions of the song.

[@sabinebruhns6632]

As you noticed, this song is a really dramatic one for the composer = Tuomas. He most of the time turns down the vocals, so he does not have to hear them. Emppu = the guitar player just comforts him. At the end he does it again with the bass player, making sure, Tuomas is good. In and with this song Tuomas commits suicide, so he does not have to do it in real life. The erased pages of text will be referred to in their song "Bye Bye Beautiful", also about the leaving/termination of Tarja. In this song they ask "Did you ever read, what I wrote you?".

[@lawrence1389u]

Wow. Doug, your reactions truly are a gift for fans. In turn, you have made me a fan of yours. I am now one of your new subscribers. Thank you!

[@paulmdevenney]

"Mother and Father" tears me up every time. Watch Tarja (tar-ya) do Phantom of the Opera from the End of an Era gig. Then watch Marko sing High Hopes from the same gig. Both are magical

[@dietersmit6639]

Mother and father as well as pacific. To me not because of lyrics but the musical masterpiece thereof.

[@VanjaSpirin]

Very good reaction. It brings us some very useful inight into a harmonic structure of a song. Good job, sir.

[@yourwinefamily1939]

Opening Section : Lead boy soprano: Guy Elliott; later on spoken part about Tuomas erased text: is 2nd boy soprano: Tom Williams, both courtesy of the Reigate St Mary's Choir School

[@KP-wi9sm]

Man, Your ear is impeccable sir! I hope you don't catch too much crap over not knowing the story before listening to this one. Personally I love to hear someone come in blind and get an unmitigated perspective. You are on point on so much of the feelings. In the end that is what the music does to us, or should. It should make us feel what our ears are hearing and our mind is attempting to comprehend. Couple that with your musical aptitude and this is an awesome, Awesome reaction. Keep up the good work sir!

[@heirantala]

If ya want to hear more of Tuomas’s classical composing you should check out their latest album human nature and the nature-side. Full half an hour pure love and Classical music. My fav is moors and those uillean pipes makes me cry.

[@Athinira]

Of all the reactions I've seen to Nightwish songs, yours are simply a class above. I realise that most reactions are by vocal coaches, where you are an actual composer, and those are two different things. But some of the details you catch are simply amazing, like the part at the end about that "Hopeful D" - that simply blew me away.

[@AlvenmodFoto]

My interpretation of 1000 pages of erased text are all the songs he had written/planned for Tarja which now was erased

[@Kullioking]

actually most of the old songs from Tuomas are hidden love letters to Tarja. with this part in the song he most likely trys to tell he is over her.

[@peterichards3261]

I was at this show. Wembley Arena 2016. Incredible performance