Classical Music Has a Toxicity Problem

SOURCES
(1) Is Classical Music Elitist? No, But You Might Be!: interlude.hk/classical-music-...
(2) Music and the Human Experience: alg.manifoldapp.org/read/musi... an instrument.-,THE PATRONAGE SYSTEM,it also had its drawbacks
(3) It’s Official: Many Orchestras Are Now Charities: www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/ar...
(4) What Does It Really Mean to Be a Patron?: interlude.hk/patrons-music-as...](interlude.hk/patrons-music-as...)
(5) The Elitism of Classical Music: • The Elitism of Classic...
(6) Lack of diversity in top orchestras remains a major challenge for musicians of color: www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...
(7) What would it take to change the way orchestras work?: / what-would-it-take-to-...
(8) Is Classical Music Elitist?: / is-classical-music-eli...
(9) The Culture of Music Education Lends Itself to Abuse: www.tes.com/magazine/archive/...
(10) Black Artists on How to Change Classical Music: www.nytimes.com/2020/07/16/ar...
(11) Classical music isn’t doing enough to support musicians’ mental health, survey reveals: www.classicfm.com/music-news/...
(12) I Left the Classical Music World and I Wouldn’t Go Back: / i-left-the-classical-m...
(13) What I’m really thinking: the orchestral musician: www.theguardian.com/lifeandst...
(14) What Does It Mean to End A Career in Classical Music: / what-does-it-mean-to-e...
(15) La musique médiéval: • La musique médiévale
(16) Napoleonic Wars: Battle of Waterloo 1815: • Napoleonic Wars: Battl...
0:00 - intro
5:40 - who owns classical music?
13:15 - the bubble of indoctrination
23:43 - toxic musicians
BACKGROUND STUFF
🎹 Piano
Hoffman, ~1930
C.Bechstein, Czech Republic
GET IN TOUCH:
I’d love to hear from you! I bucked socials a while ago so until I can afford a social media manager, leave a comment!

[@toscadonna]

My old teacher was a famous opera singer. He said the music industry was terrible, and it’s because most people aren’t okay in themselves. He said great singers like Joan Sutherland and Pavarotti were very solid as people, because they made it. They didn’t get in their own way to success. He told me to not get in my own way. Also, my grandfather used to tell me, “There’s always room at the top. It’s down on the bottom where it’s crowded. If you’re willing to work to be the best, there is always room.” Many people don’t want to be the best; they want to pretend to be the best. You should serve the music and not your personality disorder, and many people are using their powerful position to serve their own egos and personality disorders.

[@jeffpurtell5676]

Well said!

[@Benjamin-bq7tc]

It's crowded at the bottom SPECIFICALLY because there is NOT room at the top.

[@therealmerryjest]

The classical industry is so toxic. There's a reason I stopped actively pursuing an operatic career and instead do crazy operatic concerts in virtual platforms as a Cheshire Cat.

[@JediHangout]

This is what I did to the "authorities of classical music" if there is such a thing. I raised my middle finger and said "I'll do whatever the hell I want." Despite how the purists like classical music in the purists form 100% I went along and created an electric orchestra and now I have a following because of that. I went out of the box. Something that the stuffy instructors of the recent past don't know how to do. Musicians in classical music in the past went out of the box (they just "fail" to tell us this out of their own convenience). As I have told my students, if you like it and want to do something radical and different, then do it. No one is stopping you, I sure am not. I encourage you to do it. Simple as that, not always but it's all about don't listen to the nut cases. Something that one of my piano teachers in college told me.

[@gherrera-benavides]

Thanks for sharing your opinions! I came to study classical music in Europe from a popular latin-american background, so this idea of "western european classical music is the highest kind of music" I've been feeling it very strong ... and honestly it just one way of doing music, but that idea scary many people, especially conservatory teachers.

[@raveenaj7440]

@gherrera-benavides I come with a cultural background of Indian music so I feel you about conservatories putting western classical, "fine-art" music as the "best, cleanest" elitist form of music. Personally, as a composer i've been studying Renaissance folk music as the percussion used in those has similar usages to mridangams (drums) in Indian music! Anyway, I hope you're able to enjoy classical music the way you want :)

[@natasza.mroczek]

14:25 - I think it's worth mentioning that it doesn't apply to all countries. You are speaking about conditions in America, as I deduce. I'm from Europe and here in many countries, for example in Poland, where I'm from, music education in primary, secondary and higher music school are all free. As most young people are inclined to study something, continuation of musical education therefore mostly depends on the willingness and dedication of students and very rarely depends on economical conditions of the family.

[@natasza.mroczek]

And I must say that I agree with the toxicity of the classical music education, exactly as you describe it. It's a great relief for me to hear that I'm not alone in this stress, never being enough, not allowing myself to rest even for half an hour, because I always need to practice more and be better, since I'm never good enough. It's healing for me to hear that this musical thing is just like this for most of people and I'm not strange that I feel all this anxiety of musical study since the childhood. Thank you

[@filliiiii7]

@@natasza.mroczekyou are a musician in europe?

[@ericdew2021]

What you’re discussing in this video is what I call the “Meistersinger Syndrome”. Wagner’s Meistersinger succinctly (in 4.5 hours…succinct, right) describes what you’re discussing. And that attitude is imbued in every organization, from mom and pop stores to global mega-corps and governments.

[@thexenzone]

Holy crap this is incredibly true and I’m saying this coming from contemporary classical music where people believe themselves to be at the forefront of all musical exploration. Despite this I found it practically identical to classical music, but with inverted values. If you dare do anything that isn’t radical enough and within the accepted boundaries of experimentation you are cast out, humiliated and quite frankly demonized. There is always a reason to hate the people doing something differently and it’s always made out to be objectively verifiable. It normally involves a completely fictionalized version of someone being created and spread within the community to exile them. The average person considers what I do (writing for and playing microtonal guitars) to be experimental but in contemporary music it was largely scoffed at as irrelevant by either jealous performers who weren’t pushing any boundaries that weren’t already pushed in the 70’s and 80’s or composers who were jealous because they weren’t good instrumentalists. I think in the end these people were angered that I had the courage to do my own thing so they wanted to see me fail so that they could feel as though they were superior. In the end that’s the goal of classical and contemporary classical music: feeling superior.

[@CaitFrizzell]

Oh man, I’m so sorry that’s been your experience. 😣 I hope the industry can find a way to get better! I feel like it’s driving people away in droves, musicians and audience members alike. But I hope you’re still composing!

[@thexenzone]

@@CaitFrizzell haha it definitely won't, that's the nature of the beast. But that's fine, I'm doing my own thing now and loving it!

[@christopherpaul1810]

I'm one of the exceptions (I think). Despite growing up poor, I started on piano at the age of 4 and learned to read music notation, but gave up music after a couple years until I bought a cheap electric guitar at age 12. I figured out how to rig up a home made 2-track using a duel cassette boom box and a tape recorder (to bounce tracks down) and experimented with recording and eventually became a metal head. My studies of guitar scales and chords lured me to the land of music theory, and now I compose orchestral music. In more recent years my love for the piano has returned and I'm currently age 50 and studying Chopin on my own. I regret stopping childhood piano lessons, but enjoy learning and video performing. I'm having a great time, yet some of my (musician) friends tend to view me as an elitist.

[@jameseverett4976]

"elitist" is just another word tool of the crowd with no self-awareness, accusing others of what they're doing. It's Leftism in a nut shell, and they even have a handbook [ "Rules for Radicals" by Saul Alinsky] explaining the technique in detail, so those who want to do it more consciously & deliberately can do it even better.

[@lawrence18uk]

I think a lot of what you say must apply to any performance-based discipline, dance, ballet, (gymnastics?) - theatre perhaps to a lesser extent. Now, 25 years ago, when I had just graduated from music college, as I started meeting more people in the profession I began to recognise that I didn't want to spend all my time with these professional musicians, so I decided to work with amateurs instead (as a conductor) and I also became a music teacher, which I do to this day and which suits me. It would be interesting, don't you think, to do a video comparing amateur and professional music. Can either one live without the other? Most (numerically) of the most memorable performances that I remember (either as listener of performer) have been by amateur musicians. And that's what counts, doesn't it? Yet, OTOH, all my inspirational teachers have been professionals.

[@alanrobertson9790]

If your purpose is self-actualisation then being an orchestral player isn't for you. As a soloist or conductor you might stand a better chance but there is only so much creativity you can do before Tchaikovsky's Violin concerto stops being that.

[@saxysen]

Just want to encourage to keep creating. This was phenomenal😊

[@canalesworks1247]

You make some really good points in this video and I applaud you for doing. When I went to the university in 1981 I intended to go in order to become a commercial musician. While there were a few "music industry" schools such as Berklee School of Music, Dick Groves, etc, the vast majority of the universities available were indeed elitist about Western European Classical Music. Everything you have to say here rings true, but I believe you have just hit the peak of the iceberg as it were. Primarily the problem with so called "classical music" is that the industry itself killed its own ability to be commercial. You mention the 19th century, wherein for the first time ever musicians could operate as "small business people" rather than needing a specific patron or the church to make a living. Some were better at this than others of course. A very good example of a truly successful musician who lived what we would consider a "middle class" life style quite confortably without real patrons supporting him is Johannes Brahms. Another would be Giuseppe Verdi. By the same token, despite his revolutionary reputation, Beethoven was for the most part still supported by the aristocracy. It is even more ironic to consider that Wagner, the uber revolutionary, was supported by King Ludwig II of Bavaria. Indeed much of the musical elitism that has killed classical music since Wagner's death comes from the paradox that his demanding music creates. It must have deep pockets behind it to be performed, and yet the music itself challenges audiences as opposed to pleasing them. That's not to say that Wagner is "poor music" or "unpopular." Quite the opposite is true. It is indeed great music. It is also highly elitist music. It is possible to be great and eilitist simultaneously. Where did classical music go "after Wagner"? Therein lies the problem. A separation began wherein "light classical music" became second tier from an artistic standpoint according to those who taught or sponsored it, and "heavy" or "serious" classical music became "better" because it was thought to be "deeper' artistically speaking. We have one other highly important figure to consider in all of this, the Atonalist/Serial composer Arnold Schoenberg, who may have in fact been the greatist musical elitist who ever lived. Schoenberg knowingly created music that would not only be "challenging" to an audience but radically disturbing in its approach to harmony. Those of us who studied classical composition in the 1980s were told that only atonal composers could be taken seriously as truly artistic and innovative. Composers such as John Williams and Jerry Goldsmith, two highly successful film scorers, were mocked as 2nd rate hacks by the majority of academic composers in that era. Imangine that. Here are two highly successful neoromantic composers who achieved success in every measurable way beyond the bubble, and they were called "hacks"by the bubble. That was the world into where I stepped as a young pop song writer yet to be indoctrinated into the world of classical music. I was exposed to very little classical music as a child. I listened to either rock music, Mexican music (I am a Latino) or choral music I was exposed to through school. The real classical masterworks were unkown to me until I went to univesity. This music seduced me because objectively speaking, without consideration of any indoctrination at all, it is great music. That however does not mean that indoctrination didn't occur. It did, decidedly so. I was asked to kill any element of populism in myself when I studied composition because I had the ear and the talent to write in the so called "expressionist" styles (atonality, serialism etc) while simultaneously being able to compose beautiful musical phrases and create a sense of harmonic function that, while not tonal, made sense to listeners. By the time I left the scholastic system I was both a fully developed composer, and fully ruined from the standpoint of populism. I had to rebuild the confidence in myself to rethink populism and reconnect to it, so that those beyond the tiniest of bubbles (the avant garde music circle) would be able to get something out of what I compose. Things of course are very different now. We have cinematic softare programs and even very affordable orchestral samples that allow new composers to realize their music pennies to the dollar when compared to 40 years ago. I use these devices with great relish, because they allow me to create without worrying about "who is going to pay for it all". I write operas primarily, and of course there are still expenses involved, but my approach is to preserve my music very much the way pop music is preserved. If I am happy wiht the master recording, or better still, the master music video then I know that I have achieved something that lives up to my own standards. Once I create it I make it available to others so that they can hear and see it as well. People can decide for themselves whether they like, love or hate my music, but I create it regardless of those opinions. In a world with 7 billion people I assume that some tiny amount, perhaps 200, 000 or so will appreciate what I have to say. I can die with a smile on my face in respect to that number. I did find it ironic in the beginning of your video that you referenced right wing and MAGA politics through video clips while trying to draw a comparison to elitism found in the classical music world. Quite frankly that was the only "sour note" (sorry about that) I found in your video. You know very well that the vast majority of political thought within the classical music bubble is center left to extreme left, especially in the United States. Now I am not endorsing either political wing. You can cook the turkey any way you like. It is however dishonest to make a connection between MAGA and the cultural elitism of the classical musical bubble. In that way you are actually falling into the trap you're trying to call out. That one move cheapened an otherwise brilliant argument. I guarantee you that if the Trumpster were to beat Biden in the elections this fall he won't find any respectable classical singer or instrumentalist from the classical community to perform at his inaugural celebration. The truth of the matter is that any such person would be black balled, which is itself part of the "elitist" problem. Other than that however "brava"! (There's an elitist for ya)

[@TangoEightDelta]

I think it is worth noting that different demographics of people come from cultures that put less importance on "high art" like classical music. Or such, in the case of African Americans, often harbor a strong dislike for things like classical music, because taking part in it would be seen as "Acting white." This cultural dictate/dislike for things that are viewed as stuffy, privileged, or otherwise distasteful, probably has more to do with the lack of ethnic diversity in orchestra than any inherent toxicity or racism within the realms of classical music itself. After all, Asian Americans, and Asian culture at large, has a profound respect and appreciation for high arts, which is why they both take part, and greatly excel in them. So I have to wonder if it is exclusionary, or if the various cultural perspective of different groups doesn't play a larger part in forming the demographics of the classical music industry - if you will.

[@jawvees2585]

Very powerful video🍃🥀

[@helenamiller3952]

This was such a good video. I’ve wanted to be an opera singer since I was 14 and have started to study opera on the side two years ago while pursuing a graduate degree in something else. I personally love not going to a conservatory because the great opera singers of the past did not do that (e.g. Beverly Sills, Roberta Peters, and a bunch of others from the older generations). I didn’t know that the toxicity happens in the industry as well as the schools. I’m not someone who is taking the traditional conservatory route because my parents don’t want me to do that. So, I’ve been paying for my own lessons and taking free classes on the subjects needed to be an opera singer. I want to make opera for the masses in the way that Deanna Durbin did; but, it seems that the industry doesn’t want to go in that direction. Then, my other option is classical crossover, which I also love but is not my passion.

[@CaitFrizzell]

I love that direction for so many reasons! I think it’s totally possible to break into the industry that way through the competition route. You could be an “overnight” sensation, the black sheep - who is she and where did she come from? (I can dig some dramatic flair 😉) But more seriously, I think that kind of diversity would do the industry SO much good. Literally everyone has a conservatory degree (usually 2 or 3). But why? I actually think the classical music world might be more accepting of unorthodox talent than most other industries. An education will get you connections, but a talent will get you the career. I hope it works out for you!

[@helenamiller3952]

@@CaitFrizzell Thank you so much! I’m so glad that you think it’s possible to break into the industry without a degree. I would love to be successful without one! And I totally agree with you that this kind of diversity is what’s needed in opera. Most of the great opera singers of the past didn’t have conservatory educations because they couldn’t afford it (e.g. Beverly Sills and Risë Stevens). I hope the classical music industry is accepting of unorthodox talent cause there’s so much talent out there. Thank you! I hope it works out for me too!

[@rikjanvanschothorst1645]

This is a very good video. I like your way of presenting.

[@redstrat1234]

That was fascinating and a great subject for exploration.

[@niharikagottipati9421]

Man, so many comments on this video just prove your point! But young people with new ideas, critical of the old ones, have always been criticized and mocked. Keep being you!

[@TTFMjock]

Given the nature of the OP it’s possible that this comment is coming from herself under an alt. I really wouldn’t put it past her.

[@DrQuizzler]

Wow!! I think that explains my screaming oboe teacher (and a few other things)!! I just remember so often feeling like the "please pass the jelly" guy in the Grey Poupon commercial. I also remember the sense of relief when I returned to the waiting arms of Hall and Oates after years of five-hour practice room days chasing the Three Bs.

[@r.hagenau3541]

@ non-white classical music (performers): have a look at Vietnam. They are actually not bad. But one thing you should not forget: You cannot isolate the music from its background. Even white new-world performers sound slightly different than European performers, regardless whether they have Anglo or Latin roots.

[@gejost]

Here in Canada, some of the musicians from Asia perform at tgehe highest levels. I don't think you can always deduce the background of a musician from how they play? That sounds like a suspicious claim. I think it's different if you discuss composition.

[@moebarragan1681]

@@gejostyea I don’t understand his comment either. Sounds bazaar to me.

[@armucoartworks1732]

Most music genre are toxic and arrogant to other music genre. You find elitism in any kind of music.

[@jgrab1]

That's what I wish she would address-or if you don't in fact find elitism anywhere else (ha ha, but I know you do), please explain why. She didn't do this and that's why I mark her video an epic fail.

[@user-qb1sm3rk9r]

You find elitism in any human endeavor. Art, games, literature, cars and so on. There's even beer snobs.

[@jeffpurtell5676]

​@@jgrab1"...her video an epic fail." Hardly. Haven't you just proved her point?

[@btudor_06]

I do all of the stuff you said in the video (the indoctrination part more specifically) out of pure pleasure and don't see a problem with it. I practice 6-8 hours every day (or almost) and I don't feel like I am missing my life, mainly because I only talk to 2-3 people I know, mainly because I am very selective of whom I talk to. I go to recitals at least 2-3 times per month (I hate "clubs anyways), and I listen to classical music all the time (cuz I am not really into other genres), and this was out of my free will, not indoctrination, not because I was forced or other stuff like that (I am the only musician in my family). However, I agree with the part that it is difficult to make it unless you are from a rich background and/or be from a musical family, not to mention the connections you need to have (and most competitions in my country are rigged in favour of those people with those backgrounds I mentioned, just because of relations, and not by their playing overall. This is what I hate the most about this industry).

[@RamiHaxhi]

It's incredibly difficult to be successful in the classical music world. It's competitive to the max, and like those who wish to play on a professional sports team, the vast majority of musicians aspiring to earn a seat in a major symphony orchestra or opera house will fail. Nearly all of them, including composers whose music gets played, were prodigies. This is one of those cold hard facts that's not talked enough about, especially by teachers, who too often push their students to "follow their dream" or perpetuate the lie that you can overcome mediocre talent with sheer hard work. It's like saying you can become the center of a professional basketball team if you're five-foot-two simply by working harder than the seven-foot guy. Too many people competing for an infuriatingly small number of spots is the root of some of the toxicity. Unfortunately, I don't see that changing. If universities and teachers were honest with their students, it might help alleviate the numbers of frustrated and bitter musicians they send out into the world.

[@magiclover9346]

Have played and enjoyed playing classical music for most of my life. Albeit in a non professional setting because let's be real there's only so many seats in a state funded ensemble and even less dollars to go round and hours to practice. I like many others jump at the chance to play in a public setting even if the pay to time spent rehearsing doesnt add up. I am neither indoctrinated or brain washed as to not understand the value of other forms of music. I have been taught and had the pleasure of playing with some really outstanding musicians who have held chairs in large symphonies, taught at prestigious universities. Not once have i experienced any exclusionism or felt like an interloper. I guess what im trying to say is all types of music are for all people. I'm not sure where this agenda comes from. From where im sitting companies like Fever have been making strides in making classical music and dance more accessible. You can go experience Tchaikovsky, Beethoven, Dvorak, Chopin, Vivaldi and many more without the formal attire. Many if these events are actually cheaper making them more accessible than the big concerts performed by contemporary rock and pop musicians. Sincerely Trumpet musician for 23 years and active participant in non for profit community bands for just as long.

[@tfh5575]

this makes me appreciative of my city. our classical music scene is progressive.

[@markbratcher9095]

Thanks for the video. I really enjoy your videos and the topics you bring up. Only a couple of quick thoughts that this triggers in my mind about elitism... I know it seems to be in vogue to blame the church for this or that. But another perspective is that the fostering of music in "early times" by the church actually helped to advance it. J.S.Bach was born out of this environment. So good has come of it. As indicated in the video, it also became wealthy patrons who helped advance the musical art. Regarding the elitism itself and what it's rooted in... part of it is the nature of the music itself. Elitism occurs in other musical genres besides classical music. I know some fans of the Phish rock band. There's actually a subgroup of those fans who consider themselves true fans that are the ones who really understand the music, and they refer to the other fans as "posers" because, in their opinions, the posers only like the music superficially. I think, to some degree, because of the depth of the art in classical music, you can't remove the fact that there's going to be some esoteric aspect of it that is appreciated by, or at least interesting to, a subset of people. That in and of itself is going to lend to some elitism due to human nature. But the whole formal presentation I think enhances this effect. You'll find more causal attendees at the outdoor concert facilities than you do in the large, opulent concert halls. Maybe more classical concerts should be presented in less formal settings? And perhaps the performers should be allowed to wear comfortable clothing like blue jeans, etc? That might make it more approachable. Even though the current concert hall may allow anyone to attend who buys a ticket, the environment isn't "welcoming" for everyone. I don't think this is the fault of the building. I've been to the concert hall in London and observed a lot more casually clothed people than I do in the US. Making the experience more broadly inviting would help mitigate the elitism.

[@jameseverett4976]

Everyone is "elitist" in their own way. The style and subject of what they call "elitist" is the only difference between their 'elitism' and the other's 'elitism'. This generation unfortunately was programmed to see anything they aren't fully jiving with as an affront to their own personal "dignity" and identity, so it's not going to matter what you or anyone else does - if they are not the center of whatever it is, or being honored for whatever they're doing or critiquing, then it offends them and must be elitist, racist, _phobic, or any of the other Bourgeoisie snooties of exclusionary or refined society. So anything that requires training, or doing something differently from how they want to do it, is going to be seen as "elitist", because what else can it be? You see, everyone should be "individuals" as long as they include them and anything they want to add or replace your individualism with, so it includes, accommodates and honors them at their present level of understanding and skill. There is no room for "mastering" something anymore, because it would mean temporarily not being 'good' enough, which they equate with moral rejection and thus personal oppression, due only to bigotry. It's Marx's gift to modern society.

[@Souls_p_]

I don't get how there's something inherently wrong about a type of music primarily being made up by a certain race, anyone's free to enjoy classical music. No-one's upset that the vast majority of Traditional Chinese music is enjoyed, founded, and played by Chinese people and that their ensembles have only people of one race? Also, if I wished to attend a performance of traditional music, there's nothing stopping me. Yes, women historically had a tough time making it in the classical field, which is a big loss, but we do have both women and non-white composers, many of whom are fairly popular (but not one of the giants). You can't change the past, but classical music is not much different from any traditional music. I can't fathom how the blanket diversity of an ensemble matters, considering how nowadays anyone can choose to be part of one if they know their instrument well enough. Classical music can be enjoyed and played by anyone, regardless of race.

[@jgrab1]

People like to whine. The victim industry is America's biggest import. UK too.

[@jameseverett4976]

Marxism, and it's grandchild - wokeness - ruins literally everything, especially the arts. Everything is 'oppressive' now. Anything that doesn't make me immediately successful, the center of the world, or rich and famous NOW is due to elitism, racism, _phobia, or other -ism. Everything considered 'good' is a conspiracy of stuffy white people who only want to oppress this generation of already thoroughly oppressed young people.

[@waltuh2.3bviews3secondsago3]

Yeah I’ve not seen a single person say that a genre of music can’t be enjoyed by a race or group of people, don’t know why people complain about that problem that doesn’t exist

[@olganesterowicz2112]

True. It seems they think they are better than other musicians and on top of that, classical music fans are ageist.

[@myfreakyvalentine]

"The Classical Music Industry Has a Toxicity Problem". There, fixed it for you.

[@jeffpurtell5676]

I remember when I first discovered this trove of KZbin opera recordings about 2012-13. Suddenly I could listen to (and compare) voices, technique, recordings going back more than a hundred years. Initially it was just tenors, then I remembered Mom's faves Deanna Durbin and Eileen Farrell and I rediscovered them. Callas, and Anna Moffo was a cautionary tale. But the comments... Some astonished me with the spite and venom. Yes, there is elitism everywhere. However it is sharper, more refined, more than toxic, outright poisonous in the opera world.

[@Yowassup860]

Apparently I missed the open audition for the symphony band in college by one person. I was disappointed at the time by the the band director was mad abusive so I dodged a bullet with that one.

[@paddiowilson]

Conservatism vs. progressivism have always been the two forces shaping music. You can find this same argument happening back in 19th century Germany with the Wagner and the conservatives battling Brahms and the progressives. I'm sure if you go back another hundred years you'll find people making the same argument in Bach's time, you'll find people arguing for and against the transition to the formal mode of music notation system we use today. It's tempting to always side with the progressive camp, but the issue really isn't that simple. You need people pushing the boundaries, but you also need people judging these propositions against the classics. That's how you really grow the music tradition in a thoughtful, organized way. You can't accept just ANYTHING. But just like everything, you need the proper balance. Yin-yang. It sounds like the classical community is leaning too far in the conservative direction these days. We need to nudge it in the other direction, but not TOO hard.

[@sorryusernametaken66]

I get something else: I like to think of myself as a musician and composer, but, not having any piece of paper that certifies this and not being part of "the community", there is no way any of my music can be performed or listened to. No matter how much the "ignoramuses" say they like what I write, not a single "serious" musician will touch any of my stuff with the end a barge-pole, because, as I am not a member of the club already, I probably do not deserve to be let in anyway. "No: I do not need to listen to your music! I know already it cannot possibly be good!"

[@thexenzone]

You are so right. That is precisely how the hegemony works. It really is a complete joke the way they defensively scoff at anyone who is outside of the institutions. I have a master's from the Paris Conservatory and decided to quit that whole community to make music independently because of how miserable it made me and now guess what? Even though I'm way happier with the music I'm writing now and get a much better response from a broader public, the people I knew from the conservatories wouldn't even acknowledge its existence because it isn't linked to their institutions. Learn how to make electronic music, that way you will be able to make exactly the music that you want and you won't need to join their sick club :)

[@caeruleusbritannus]

There are a number of points where you use the term "eurocentric" when I think you really just mean "European" - there is an implied criticism with the term "eurocentric" which I'm not sure is relevant or even intentional every time you use it. I can see why from an American perspective you could begin to use the words interchangeably - but when you are speaking in a historical context of historical trends within Europe in e.g. the eighteenth century, I'm not sure it's exactly what you meant. (Just something to consider for future videos!)

[@mathildehb0076]

Insecurity differences between sopranos and mezzo-sopranos: An insecure soprano pushes their own insecurity unto other singers, especially those who are newer to the “cult”, while an insecure mezzo just doesn’t sing. A soprano with lots of self esteem is usually really sweet and you would often misinterpret them as a mezzo 😂 As a classical singer, studying musicology, I can confirm. I was first a percussionist, then a young chorus girl, then 15 years old me, started taking voice lessons. First, I wanted to do musical theatre, then I wanted to be more of a pop singer, but then I started singing more classical and I felt this was my home. Then I came to my first professional operetta role and I became a victim of elite-taught sopranos. NowI miss the musical theatre 😂

[@jeffpurtell5676]

I just spent the last hour reading back over entries. I think Ms. Cait struck a nerve.

[@caramelastic]

I hate how people judge singers these days. As someone just getting into it, it is scary to watch performances on youtube which sound amazing since the people singing are trained professionals, only to read comments beneath that state how terrible singer xy is and how much better some dead singer has been. It is highly disturbing to me and kinda makes me scared getting into it, since somehow you will never get good enough? Which is bizzare because i changed from violin to singing because I thought it was more individual and free, well whoops

[@raveenaj7440]

@Cait this was an AMAZING video. Thank you so much! I have seen a bit of the elitist and ab-censored relationship between teacher and student in classical music myself -- from being yelled at continuously in violin class (and me crying), to hearing about how composers need to have an elite understanding of scores (old classical and contemporary music). I never went to conservatory at the college level (I did a pre-college music program in high school) and it was such a f*cking pressure cooker. I opted to study composition because 1) I liked making music I wanted to hear, and 2) I could kinda avoid the pressures of being a music performer. But even in the composition world, there's elitism. I felt like I couldn't bring my musical background of rock music (from listening to my dad's tapes when I was little) or my Indian music background. Composition to me isn't about following rules, it's about understanding SOUND, and THEMES, and creating music you personally like -- not trying to follow elite composers just because you have to, or because it's the "in thing" for contemporary classical music. I felt pressured to poop out 8-minute pieces every couple of weeks for my teacher/composers-recital -- you know how hard it is to compose a fully original 8-minute piece?? Anyway, loved this video, and the previous video you did on classical music dying -- it hits a lot of themes in this one. Thanks so much!!

[@CaitFrizzell]

I’m so sorry you had to experience that. 🙏 It shouldn’t be that way, and I totally agree. I hope whatever path you decide to follow brings you health and happiness (and music)! 🤍 (also holy moly yes, I had a composition friend or two and I’ll tell ya, I did not envy them 😅)

[@RechtmanDon]

My inabliity to deal with the avant garde-styled politics of the music industry in the 1970s in music school ultimately led me to develop a new definition of music, based on the modern advancements of museolinguistics and neuropsychology. You may see my abridged TEDx presentation of the definition and the process leading up to it and its significance at kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXinfWNupbV5rck Music: What's Your Definition?

[@daviddavenport9350]

But..Kate...shouldnt we all strive to be upper class as far as aesthetics goes?

[@AsianAnticsOfficial]

I would like to disagree, only coming from my experience. From my specific expereince of being in an orchestra, yes, some kids were forced and abused to do violin and stuff, but everybody, even my conductors, loved all kinds of music, and never thought of classical music as being the highest. I am actually a metalhead, and I love classical music as being metal's supportive grandad. Sure, im not saying nobodys snobbish, but i feel like the idea of classical music being the "establishment" is most likely just artificial just because of our connotation to the delicateness and precision that style must have, and how it relates to old aristocracy. But music styles for different peoples change.

[@topologyrob]

I wonder if this is more pronounced in the USA than Europe or other places

[@timbuktu8069]

A big part of listening to classical music is being pretentious. And as they say: "An ounce of pretention is worth a pound of manure."

[@jeffpurtell5676]

Thank you for that. We must never forget that approached with a little levity, any situation is more well managed. (Lol)

[@timbuktu8069]

@@jeffpurtell5676 Besides, without classical music we would never have had "What's Opera Doc?" (Kill de Wabbit! Ki-il de WABBIT!)

[@jazzforpeace]

Hi Cait, we'd love to have you as a guest on the Jazz for Peace podcast with host Rick DellaRatta if you would be interested?

[@orlandosanchez3605]

Curious, I grew up in Cuba, my family liked classical music and took me to concerts, ballets, operas, zarzuelas, all artists been paid by the government. It was not a massive event but the Grand Theatre Lorca In Havana will fill out, as will other theaters and later on Churches turn into concert halls in Havana. Not everybody has the sensitivity and exposure necessary to like this music. Training musicians to be able to perform this music is' not cheap either, it takes money from the government or from the person to do this. The racial disparities were there as well, no matter how much the government tried to help.

[@niemand7811]

I highly believe that a lot of this toxicity comes form ill guided people that think of themselves as the high regarded classical music consumers. They think they are special by any means just for listening to anything from Bach to Beethoven yet without any real meaning other then fully diving into elitism on their own. It's this "classical music fans and heavy metal fans are birds of the same feather" nonsense that drives the wedge further down the flesh of reality, dividing people even more. That means music journalists spreading such unfounded ideas are just as guilty. At one point I found my way into the world of classical music (whatever this terms means to anyone). Started some listening sessions here and some over there. Eventually found my niches I love to reside when listening to such old musical compositions. But always with the mind of a person that loves movie scores, video game soundtracks and more. I'm following recommendations all over the place. At some point in my life I felt the urge to listen to something that tickles my inner child and also caters to my progressing self as well as to anything in between representing remotely me from the past to the now. Popular music genres could only take me thus far. And I have many nostalgia trips every now and then. But only the vast world of classical music, lots of jazz recordings and also more traditional leaning musicand song styles keep me fascinated in listening to music as such. Music that has a touch of humanity despite the bad things happening in the industry as a whole. The music itself is innocent. And when people get driven out and far away, what will become of all of that? Many people claiming elitism in classical music will not perform as musicians otherwise, maybe creating some awesome tango recordings or some fascinating salsa manifestos. Fusions of musical styles incorporating accoustic instruments and different lyrical/vocal styles from all over the world aren't knew. We have no excuses to cling to the old elitism commentary while ignoring the already existing ideas making things more diverse and humane. Maybe it'd help a lot if we just let the elitists dwell in their own echo chambers?

[@smb123211]

The dirty little secret is this new music so "opposed" by the music world is EXTREMELY unpopular. Oh sure, we'll squirm through a premiere of screeches, yelps, moans and squeaks but inwardly we're making a shopping list while reading the program and checking the time. They blame everyone - racism, sexism, the "system" (how original). No, its audiences who are secret nationalists. No wait, it's wealth, privilege, anything but the music. And why just music? Few IT guys had childhoods not wrapped up with games, programming, electronics and immersion in the "system". The real question, can the artistry of a Wang, Malofeev, Trifonov or Van Cliburn be attained with a "holistic" approach or is the lifestyle so criticized here necessary? I left the classical world and decades later that decision seems so right. Stop blaming others for the way your life turned out!

[@lorrainelager852]

One of the things I question is how much classical musicians ACTUALLY enjoy the music itself. When one attends a concert, it feels like a museum presentation, and a way to get "validation" from colleagues rather than them getting a genuine, spontaneous reaction from the music.

[@straightfiremetalstraightfirem]

Have you tried actually asking people who play classical music instead of just questioning yourself. And any live performance of any music genre for an audience is either gonna be for a paycheck or for some kind of validation, if it was just '' genuine, spontaneous reaction from the music.'' they could might as well just have stayed home.

[@lorrainelager852]

Lots of classical musicians I’ve spoken to express boredom by classical concerts. When I was in conservatory, most students around me would just text in performance class- that can’t be a sign of enjoyment. Also the number of musicians who express frustration or even quit at least shows that the love of music can’t be strong enough to compensate the burden. You’re right, a merely spontaneous performance from the player without the urge to “succeed” won’t do in a high profile gig. It’s just not realistic.

[@MJ-zh4el]

You're right. Back when I was a working classical musician, I enjoyed many of my gigs/performances, but sometimes it's just a job. As for sitting in the audience, I was never shy about leaving at intermission if I was tired or bored 😂

[@judithmayaabegg4086]

I sang plenty of classical music I did not enjoy at first and learned to appreciate whilst studying them. There is true value in exposing yourself to something that isn’t instantly catching you. However, almost all modern classical pieces I have come across were horrible to learn, to perform and to listen to. I never got to appreciate them and now would absolutely refuse to perform because they make me feel physically uneasy, like a scratchy jumper that makes your skin break out in hives for weeks! But I felt unsafe expressing that back when I sang on a competitive level. I recently saw an opera written in 2023 and in the program the composer was described as: “…is not afraid to write what might be heard as ‘accessibly’ appealing music.” The way I understand this quote is, “pretty music is vulgar and uneducated and if a composer dares to write something enjoyable these days it is a very brave thing to do”. My interpretation could be confirmation bias, because I have always felt that in the classical music world one is not allowed to criticise modern classical music for being “not enjoyable or not pretty” because if you don’t enjoy that particular piece, surely you are not smart enough to appreciate the intellectual genius behind it. Imposter syndrome kicks in and nobody dares to say anything that could even remotely imply a lack of intellect. This was always just implied in conversation though. To see it written in black and white where “‘accessibly’ appealing” is used as something that is unusual or brave made me very angry and then super sad. Nothing short of The Emperor’s Cloths. Now that I am no longer inside this bubble I feel very free to say: I love and listen to certain forms of classical music, end of the story. I no longer try to explain or hide that I avoid unpleasant music. Because exposing myself to uncomfortable things because they are unfamiliar and things that are uncomfortable because they have no intention to connect with the audience are two VERY different things! Connecting with an audience isn’t automatically selling out.

[@alanrobertson9790]

I don't see how you get this from listening at a classical music concert. Aren't you just overlaying your own narrative? You trot out the same clichés. Do you actually like classical music or do you wish it was like something you do like?

[@michaelrollo6518]

If you don't mind me asklng what do you intend to do now that you left the industry?

[@alexandermashin5515]

An eager girl.

[@sheilaclemett4353]

I was shocked to the core at the MeToo revelations from and about famous opera professionals. This level of talent is so rare that it should not be wasted. I am also furious at the degradation of public schools in the US who do not teach appreciation of this music to the degree that the imbalance of revenues has gotten worse than one would imagine. Having said that... ...I am a very aggressive "shusher" toward people whose conversations and cell phone activity don't stop when the conductor raises the baton. This is not the 18th century when spoken theatre and opera had very little competition as public entertainment compared to today. We are now in huge opera houses that seat more than a thousand people at a time whose noise would drown everything out if they all conversed, played cards, or did anything else that happened in Mozart's time. It's rude to ruin other people's music/theatre experience with ticket prices being what they are now.

[@jgrab1]

Could you explain why this is a problem only with classical musicians and if it's not, why did you only single out classical musicians?

[@CaitFrizzell]

I believe it's the grooming. Like religion, the indoctrination starts very young for classical musicians. There are no other genres I know of that actively discourage children from pursuing music in general at the risk of damaging their future career. Other comparable disciplines would be ballet, highly-skilled athletes, anything where you're isolated from other kids, told you're special/different than them, and if you do anything else, you'll lost what makes you special.

[@niemand7811]

@@CaitFrizzell And it did not ring true within you that many people come to "classical music" because they like it? I don't know. In my opinion this sounds like some parenting issues existed when you were a kid. But please stop this projection of your own ideas onto others.

[@ThesaurusToblerone]

Yes, my classical piano teacher even discouraged me from playing other types of music and other instruments. She looked down on me for being in the school's brass band, hahaha.

[@shelbytrevor4101]

@@CaitFrizzell Just to raise a question or two... How does this comparison to religious indoctrination account for people who adopt religion later in life? Also, on the contrary, I know someone (a viola student of mine for nearly 10 years) who was born into strict conservative religious indoctrination, grew up going to church, and then made the decision to leave the church and sought out a new cultural identity before he was mid-aged... I think he's a great person and should be free to pursue what resonates with him on his life path, and I would only offer the same to an individual who may decide to seek spiritual or religious ideals later in their life. I'm attempting to turn a light on here and simply say that I've learned it's important to be careful making assumptions and generalizations about people and their beliefs... The world is a jungle, try not to take what you believe in too seriously! Wishing you the best.

[@TTFMjock]

@@shelbytrevor4101This woman’s self-presentation is that of an acute narcissist. She is not interested in conversing with you; she likes her own half-baked boilerplate and believes it to be revelatory. She is not interested in thinking anything through any farther and Your function is not to contribute but to adulate.

[@davidjooste5788]

If you think CM is toxic what about the rap and pop industries. People who are looking for safe spaces should stay in bed, This is so pathetic.

[@filliiiii7]

CM are very egocentric and arrogant no?

[@TTFMjock]

@@filliiiii7Really? I think the Basic B. who made this vid is far more arrogant than most CM I’ve met.

[@yotrakzproductions7324]

the elitist milieux of classical music will never be eliminated until it and all music is just termed…music.

[@Tolstoy111]

We shouldn’t make any distinctions in an art form?

[@vrai3078]

I have autism. Music, and music theory are rather an obession of mine and from a early age I posed very fundemental questions about how music worked and led to me teaching myself basic music theory by the age of 9 years old(informally). I joined my middle school band program thinking that I would learn to read music more proficiently and would spend time learning about music in a more holistic manner and was met with quite the opposite. To say that I was mentally abused is an understatement. Put it simply, my director was a complete piece of shit. He scorned and yelled at a kid that when to go see his sick mother instead of staying for a sectional saying that he could've "done that later" and continued to berate him for weeks. He would single me out for my autism and always had something negative to say about me. The first year I was scared and indoctrinated(I had to stay in the program forcibly btw) The second year I had enough and began to start going against the lessons that were given to me by learning about experimental 21th century music, even developing a complex notation system and new musical practice as a rejection of the musical ideas being taught to me. Needless to say they were furious with me and regarded my radical new musical concept as a delusion and complete "nonsense coming from a child". I never quit and to this day I am still developing this system. I am currently in college studying composition and I plan to just get a simple gig in music education because I know I can do better that the jackoffs in my middle school band. Of course on the side I am constantly working on my new theoretical practice of music, while studying foreign music aswell working on both tonal and non-tonal borderline sound-art compositions. I aspire to be a sort of harry partch type figure, a man completly free from the vices of western musical practices. Doesn't have too much to do with the video but I hope I could at least inspire others a bit.

[@gejost]

Your story saddens me. I don't have autism. Almost opposite.. I can't get music. I would expect a teacher to encourage your talent and allow students to go to life eve

[@vrai3078]

@@gejost my story isn't mean to sadden you. I simply want to the make the point that I turned lemons into lemonade. I have hyperdeveloped a new paradigm of musical expression and theory out of pure spite and will, and from being forced to stay in the incredibly small box of western practice. You will find all kinds of internalized politics in the little world of music academia. I would've never had my incredibly original thoughts if it wasn't for my aspergers it is the reason I have a purpose in life, the reason that I have this eternal fire in my soul to pursue music, not for liesure or recreation, but for a higher motive, to gain a very holistic understanding of how we as humans relate to it in all different cultures, social contexts, just... everything.... its beautiful. The day that I cannot pursue music anymore is the day I die , the day I lose all purpose and meaning in life, it is something I can't explain, it has just always been there. I do not ask for pity. Fuck the world, I decided a long time ago that I was going to head the direction in my art that felt right no matter how obscure or unpopular it may be. I write for myself, if others like it too that it simply a byproduct. Don't mold yourself for others, do not become who others want you to be. Do you, be you.

[@zeenohaquo7970]

Oh yes the sense sore sheep in yt

[@jirikytka9701]

"Euro-centric" music of the 10th century...😆You lost me there.

[@EricLehner]

The Google Thought Police Algorithm is suddenly feeding me unending anti-White narrative of “problematic” Classical music. So obviously manipulative.

[@gatesurfer]

Well, as usual this screed ignores Asians and Asian Americans, who I dare say are far over represented in music schools in this country, and would be in orchestras too if they didn’t decide to become doctors instead. I am Asian American myself, btw. My dad was a very good musician who played in the local symphony as a college student but then became a doctor. His brother, however, became a jazz and pop musician and played in nightclubs. I get what you mean about classical music being seen as elitist, but I think it has more to do with people who don’t enjoy classical music using that as an excuse for not going to concerts. Most of them have never been to a concert past maybe age 12, remembering only that they got “dragged” to a concert by their parents after being forced to dress their Sunday best. They don’t realize that that isn’t really necessary any more. So I reject the elitist charge. Sometimes you just close your mind to certain kinds of music. I certainly barely take notice of modern pop music. It’s so fake,,with all the autotune and “producing” that takes place now. But I think it’s sad when people can’t bring themselves to go to the occasional orchestra concert or piano recital to hear works that, after hundreds of years and thousands of performances, still continue to fascinate and challenge the musicians who perform it and dedicate their lives to it. The quality of musician in a decent regional orchestra is very high these days. It might benefit people if they learn to appreciate that as is, rather than thinking it would be “better” if it was dressed up like a Taylor Swift production.

[@mariobukna984]

Must be white, well educated, middle class , female who is ranting about racism, toxic this and that in something and so on . :(

[@randylazer2894]

You have literally no idea of the gravity of your errors. Let's take "the aged folks who occasionally turn to physical violence to shut up the uninitiated". Nope, I have been going to concerts and performing for nearly 60 years and never saw that. To share my background, I had a music scholarship at Duke, studied with the former concertmaster of Toscanini's NBC Symphony Orchestra who had a Guarneri del Jesu, performed in symphony and chamber orchestras for decades, along with jazz all over Las Vegas. I have a jazz violin cd coming out later this year, and also some recordings for jazz piano. My uncle won the Queen Elizabeth competition, and was one of the great violinists of the 20th century, Berl Senofsky, and my aunt taught with Pablo Casals and studied with Piatigorsky, and soloed all over the world and was the principal cellist of the Houston Symphony. Another uncle escaped the Holocaust and was a composer and conductor, who along with his wife, who was a pianist, taught at Indiana University. My mother was a concert pianist in her early days, and performed for Eleanor Roosevelt, and she was related to Arthur Rubinstein, who used to come over to hear her play piano. My father was the President of a symphony and my family is well acquainted with some of the greatest musicians this world has known. In all of my years, never have I or my family members witnessed what you wrote of, of aged folks turning to physical violence to shut up the uninitiated. What I have heard of is that sometimes students venture off in a direction, that can be a huge waste of time and energy, and there are serious criticisms of their music. If things were as you stated, then there really wouldn't be contemporary music, we would simply just be listening to others who wrote in a style similar to Beethoven, Brahms, or Tchaikovsky. But, that isn't the case, as new ideas come into being, and music evolves, in deference to your video. Yet, rejection, whether rightfully or wrongfully is a part of life, whether it be Michael Jordan not making his varsity basketball team, or Tchaikovsky not having his violin concerto being well received, or for that matter Schubert's 9th symphony or other works of Beethoven and Brahms getting panned. Sometimes with criticism a student can take something that he or she learned and make it better, and travel down a better path. You then demonstrate zero cognizance per your remark that "Far Right Nationalists complain when immigrants enter their country". First you have no understanding of nationalism, which has meant placing a top priority of the interests of the citizens of one country, such as securing the safety for the citizens of the US by not having murderers, cartel and gang members, and sex traffickers coming across our border illegally, for which people are being murdered, raped, and we had about 268,000 opioid deaths in 3 years. You see those who are common sense people, desire legal immigration. What you attribute to far right is basically common sense, like having low inflation, low gas prices, a secure border, no war in the Ukraine, no war in Israel, and for legal immigration to have a wonderful flow. Nationalism really references uplifting all in a country, of prosperity for all. I would encourage you to learn instead of making false proclamations out of a lack of understanding. Then when you wrote of "other cultures have something to offer", inferring that those horrific right wing extremists (oops, normal people who simply desire a good economy for all, legal immigration, and peace in the world) don't recognize that....well, you are wrong. In my upcoming violin cd that will be out later this year, I wrote one piece based on Spanish culture, another on Latin culture, and others that are blues, that came from African culture. Even Kapustin and Gershwin wrote some jazzy music which came from African culture. My uncle wrote an Indian Symphony, from his time in India, along with what is kind of the national song of India, that has been waking people up in that country since 1936. All of that is in deference to what you claimed. I am going to give you some life advice......if you want to perpetuate false narratives of stereotypes and hate against older generations, or now for more than half of the country that sees the train wreck of the last three years of a liberal and radical administration.....then if you don't get hired by MSNBC or CNN, I don't know that your energies are going to realize great monetary rewards. Lastly, you talk about diversity in orchestras. First, the focus is on the best players, as opposed to diversity, albeit there should be great emphasis in music education for every student who would like to play an instrument or sing to have that opportunity. However, I don't see you complaining about diversity in the NBA or NFL that are dominated by blacks, or in the music industry that is dominated by blacks and Latinos. There are more Asians in orchestras than their percentage of the US population, along with a fair amount of Russian's and Eastern Europeans....oops, I guess they are white people. All of this from the first 5 minutes and change of your video. Just crazy Your dialogue reminds me of the words of the famed economist Thomas Sowell, whom you likely have no idea of, and for which he happened to be black, and was truly prolific. Sowell would describe you as "seeking to enjoy a sense of moral superiority out of your ignorance". I really hope that you will learn, as you seem to be very intelligent, but brainwashed, and unable to really see the world as it is. Another life lesson, speak of what you know, and not of what you don't, but learn of what you don't know before you make wrongful judgments and stereotype large groups of people. Sterotypical generalizations often are the basis for racism, prejudice, and hate, for which engaging in such would make you a hypocrite if you do stand against hate.

[@TTFMjock]

I read your comment. She’s not intelligent. Narcissists like to project an image but everything she says is either obvious or stupid.

[@mrseaweed88]

Music is a completely subjective art form as well, so claiming a certain type of music is superior just because you think so and that it's super complex is ridiculous. It's all ego stroking at the end of the day. I'll stick to my death metal thanks (video was really interesting)

[@TTFMjock]

Anytime I hear “Completely subjective” I know someone is not interested in following their thoughts even to intermediate conclusions.

[@yesand5536]

I'm from the rest of the world, but I grew up with parents who believed in be-bop jazz to the point of religion. It's never ebbed with them, they died with it. So, this idea that the purest and most important form of music is jazz which is really ONLY performed by about 100 musos between 1959 and 1969 (NOT 1970, because Miles Davis became a TRRRAAAAIIIITTTTOOORRRR and went jazz-fusion), this elitism is rife pretty much everywhere. I became interested in indie rock about 1991 and same there: they are the coolest and most important people, bow down to their importance. I mean, I regurgitated all of that, and only realised it maybe I don't know, a decade ago. Here's another: circus people are the ones who are more amazing than other artists; New Circus people are more important than regular animal-circus people; (it gets more granular). e.g. circus artists > classical musicians (who have to s.i.t. down and do nothing interesting, b.o.r.i.n.g). So, I left that social world and didn't try to make it in any of them, for I'd have to battle them just to get a gig. And you can imagine, this is the lot of those in the 20s. And hey, they all aren't like that, just ones who have eyes that are cold and distant, saying "you have to earn our attention". However, the classical world sound like the next level up. Which isn't surprising since it came from people who believed THEY were the ones who could access God. Hard to come down from that. Though if we all find out that God REAAALY preferred Nirvana over Beethoven and the second coming of Christ was Kurt Cobain, then everything is up for discussion.

[@Tolstoy111]

“Western, Eurocentric”. What does that combination even mean? Would you describe Chinese music as “Sinocentric”? All systems are “exclusionary” to some degree, otherwise they aren't systems. What do you mean by elitism and why is that bad? You used that word like 500 times. Major Orchestras are drawn from a worldwide talent pool so expecting them to represent the “city they serve” is absurd. Besides why should they be representative of the city as opposed to their patrons? The people who actually care and buy the tickets. Who cares if a profession draws a certain ethnic group. Would you complain about pro sports in the same way? Jane Austen’s characters are a shade away from poverty; that’s why the women are seeking husbands. There’s nothing “warped” about the classical musicians I know. And I know many. They are very well adjusted. At least not worse than some other high performance profession.

[@ljuboizsiska5448]

Not just "Western, Eurocentric" but "Western, Eurocentric white". Wokism is strong in this one.

[@ilya5327]

And why would one want to listen to Taylor Swift anyway?

[@daviddavenport9350]

But...cannot your criticisms be applicable to any highly demanding vocation? the professional or big time university athlete, gymnasts....dancers of course? Playing music at a really really high level is damned difficult...and I think you know that.....I once heard Rostropovich drilling and drilling a passage of the Tchaikovsky Rococo Variations just before he was to perform it......and not getting it every time at that! So I am not buying your criticisms.....even worse is that you fault Classical music for being born in Europe.....or being too "white".....those things arent deliberate, they just are!

[@sabahyassin-ky1po]

What are you saying mean sound of music or other sound have a natural basi as water and will renew as a sun. with other word you say earth and sky is one being and it known as uinivers

[@sedeslav]

You still have an American mindset when you call classical music an"industry". That word is absolutely wrong in that context. Americans don't "lost" sensibility for a deeper art forms. they never truly developed it.

[@ljuboizsiska5448]

The more I watch this girl's channel, the clearer it is to me that she should have spent more time on her own musical education and less on the social subjects with which they poison the youth at colleges. I am afraid that if she wants to become a relevant and contributing member of society, she will have to undergo an extensive deconstruction of her own views and detoxification from cultural Marxism.

[@jelsner5077]

Ugh.

[@rodger7029]

lol, no to most of this

[@daviddavenport9350]

You seem to have an intrinsic problem with the terms Elite or Elitism and High Art...that I cannot really fathom.....If by elitist, you mean someone educated enough in the Arts to really know something about it, then do you feel the same about the wine connoisseur who really knows his stuff about great wines? and, I just read where the Cincinnati Symphony is embracing all sorts of Pop artist collaborations within their series.....they have rather become the "Ed Sullivan" Show of ther 21st Century. forgive me, but I rather like the exclusiveness of some things...great wines, persian rugs, pedigreed dogs, and great music....unsullied....

[@hauthot287]

I mean, there’s a reason I hate Toscanini

[@ianng9915]

Why? He wasn't toxic, he was just a genuine musician who wanted his music to be great, and truth is many worked well with him

[@ianng9915]

To be fair, the only guy he couldn't work with was a certain Wilhelm Furtwangler...

[@jixer1956]

@@ianng9915 He was. Have you heard the audio recording of his absolutely losing it at a musician in his orchestra? The only reason people put up with Toscanini's behavior was that he was Toscanini and so famous.

[@johnrupert5606]

@@ianng9915I really hope that you'll eventually learn to recognize toxic behaviour

[@ljuboizsiska5448]

@@johnrupert5606 I really hope you grow up and grow a pair. I also hope that the word "toxic" will quickly end up in the dustbin of history and that behind it will only be a warning about the phenomenon of mass hypnosis, the pathological sensitivity of an entire generation, the impossibility of dealing with real life and the will of other people that surrounds and is in usually stronger and evolutionarily correct.

[@christophmartin5381]

Good minded Mrs. Frizzell, but you fell in the same rabbit whole as many "white" ? elitist fell before. Criticising something you love until it is dead. Classical music is so far away from being elitist today then ever before. Look where the money is made, and no it is not the classic music industry. And to understand that, compare the education of a "elite" Solist with a Pop star, in most cases you will see a pattern. And it will not show you that the classical music domain is any elitist or has supremacy issues.

[@3941602]

This channel is toxic

[@rodrodriguez460]

Cait... just leave the institution/industry... you'll probably feel happier.

[@3941602]

Can you do a video slagging off the entire renaissance period. It was total toxic masculinity. Its overrated and we dont need it. This is sarcasm of course.

[@charlesreidy2765]

People who love classical music aren't elitists. They're music lovers who appreciate the ability of genius and talent to take them places they've never been, just like lovers of the finest literature and visual art are. Is a person who goes to a Picasso exhibit or reads a Dostoevsky novel elitists, or do they just want the best that art has to offer. I'm really sorry you aren't successful in the classical music world. I hope you'll keep working hard and that will change.

[@rodthom86]

elitist detected

[@johnrupert5606]

@@rodthom86Half of the comments here are from unreflected elitists themselves, it's so frustrating lol

[@GamerGeekThug]

She doesn't have to be in the classical world. She could have a fulfilling musical career and make great srt without being involved in classical music.

[@straightfiremetalstraightfirem]

​@@rodthom86 Maybe you're consistent and go ''ugh elitist :*s'' at anyone with a preference about what constitites ''the best art'', if not then you're a hypocritical elitist, just of an inverted-vanity kind. While conservatives are stuck in traditional elitism, it's largely liberal/leftist middle class dominating cultural commentary and criticism, and there there's a poptimist social climat full of inverted vanity elitism. People liftning up the superiority of say pop music as more immidiate and honest get the #YASSLSLAY treatment while people who lift up the superiority of classical music are elitists. It's complete cognitive dissonance. Both kinds of elitism are dumb if you pretend your preferences are objective, the problem is to know if people are speaking knowlingly subjectively or pseudo-objectively. People just tend to speak about their preferences in a very matter-of-fact way as if they're making some objective claim, but once you probe them the least they often say ''it's just my opinion of course''.

[@iamacat9265]

dude, she's already had a vocal hemorrhage trying to "work hard" :(

[@markrymanowski719]

Did you hear her say weapEn. It's pronounced weapn. There is no E in the word. There is a silent O. It's not queens English. It's just correct pronunciation. Not pronunciaSHEN, either. Grrrrr....

[@inotmark]

How is any of this different from any other corporate culture? Your history lesson was incomplete and inaccurate.

[@CaitFrizzell]

I suggest watching literally any part of the video. I spend 30 minutes going into excruciating detail about just that question. 😘

[@inotmark]

@@CaitFrizzell You spent 30 minutes playing with yourself. I have spent decades in the business. Your spiel is superficial and pointless. What's next? Auto-tune for the Opera? Get real. The issues are far outside your ability to comprehend, but I will put it in its most simple form: the entropy necerssary to drive creativity disappears in a collapsing universe.

[@niemand7811]

@@inotmark For saying as less as you did, you said too much for even that.

[@inotmark]

@@niemand7811 sorry it exceeded your capacity. reread it until you get it.

[@curiouscandour]

Look at this guy being exhibit A: @@inotmark

[@khap60]

"classical music" by definition is music from Europe created by white male composers. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_music. End of story. People of all color can perform this as shown by many Asian artists. But putting f. ex. tribal African music into the mix is NOT classical music by definition.

[@tfh5575]

there were also non white male composers though in europe. some women too. you’re applying today’s concept of whiteness to 18th century western europe. it’s giving “anti-woke”