Why Infamous 2's Ending Didn't Work

[@andyb6400]

Having to kill Zeke is still the hardest thing I've ever done in a game

[@AblonVtuber]

Same, Legit drove me to tears when I first played the Evil ending in IF2.

[@kujo4388]

Not me, I hated that bastard of a character

[@SiriusCygnus]

​@@kujo4388 you seem like a wonderful kid

[@Lastjustice]

@@kujo4388 Zeke was a selfish backstabbing jerk. Everything was about him. He was like you have save me from the plague...like dude I die to do that. He was willing let you die, but wasn't willing to reverse roles with you. He tried escape Empire city, but wasn't a good enough swimmer, so he was forced to come back. Otherwise you'd never seen him again. Cole always had to be the one to sacrifice in their friendship. He was total user. I had no trouble frying his ass. I would never be friends with someone as crappy as Zeke.

[@mataeholliman7462]

Me 2

[@BlackTheBerserker]

I don't think it's the fault of Infamous 2 that Second son retconned both endings. The issue here isn't 2's ending but that the fact that Second Son honestly probably shouldn't have been made from a story perspective.

[@mauricehopes9105]

I agree. Plus Delson just isn't as likeable as Cole. The game was fun, but I was never as invested in second son as I was in one and two. The only characters I cared about in second son was fetch. I loved her DLC and would honestly play a full game with her if they made it, but I'm ok if they leave Delson behind.

[@agord7591]

Cole is barely mentioned in second son. This man saved billions of people and no remembers him?

[@InvertedWIng]

Second Son should have been a spiritual successor, NOT a sequel. inFamous should have just been allowed to end with 2.

[@edsonsengo2684]

@@agord7591 If I recall only the people of New Marais remembers what he did. He was only revered as a hero there while the rest of the world didn't know of his sacrifice

[@godzillazfriction]

bruh just make Second Son a prequel to inFAMOUS 2 or set at the same time as inFAMOUS 2 or set in between cole recovering because of the battle against the beast

[@flozenen6468]

I think both endings were too "big": You either kill all conduits or kill all the normies. The only choice for a 3rd game is to make the bad ending canon and have you play as a human survivor, somehow gaining powers and going after Cole (kind of like prototype 2).

[@uchihabomber1296]

That would’ve been really cool to make it more interesting

[@group555_]

I have a theory that infamous second sons story is not too different from the original intention. Cole was just way too powerful to be a fun character to play without very obviously powering him down. so I think a new player character was already planned with Cole being the main antagonist or some form of major story element. The story beats would be largely the same and you'd end up facing cole.

[@Shoxic666]

A human who gains powers is literally just a conduit lmao

[@romerogamezjorgeluis4218]

You could still use Delsin for this, make Hank like a Cole's follower and he's attacking the Akomish, Delsin interferes and ends up absorbing Hank's power

[@پوریاصحبتزاده-ب3ب]

@@Shoxic666 Maybe a human who experimented on himself and forcefully shoved Conduit DNA (could be the tutorial mission) inside him. Like the beta conduits who didn't have the genes but thanks to a prime conduit have powers now. Except now without the prime conduit to siphon the power a little bit to make it bearable he's now on a time limit until he loses the powers or his body completely collapses from overuse. Ties into why a good man with good intentions would want to take the easy way out. If you pick the evil path you can save up the power and allow your body to get used to them. The good path is by nature harder, So you either use your powers and burn yourself out, Or you refrain from using it and now have to complete an even harder mission. Might solve the problem people have of the evil path not feeling satisfying when it's the worst choice.

[@jrad410]

Interesting take. I love infamous 2 and the endings were great. But the fact we didn’t get any follow up, especially with the evil ending is really dissapointing

[@acmiguens]

I agree. I think both endings are great. They're not the problem, what followed is.

[@squallthegriever]

Second Son was fine

[@goldenaries0860]

@@squallthegriever Agreed, although it still kills me that Second Son fits so - awkwardly into the timeline. With Cole saving literal cities, and both knowing what he’s done for both mortals and conduits - the inclusion DUP seems so off. No way that there wouldn’t be at least some conduit supporters after Cole blew up a Jet Jaguar magma kaiju and saved humanity from the conduit plague.

[@Jax1147]

​@@goldenaries0860 No the DUP makes perfect sense. Why would the mass majority be on board with them just because Cole stopped one monster? He's the entire reason there is a threat to stop. He's the entire reason there's a plague to stop. Cole didn't come out of no where and saved the day. He was the direct cause and was cleaning up his own mess. Without conduits there wouldn't be super humans running around with god like powers. There wouldn't be a virus that killed entire states. There wouldn't be a giant city killing monster. Of course people are going to be fearful of Conduits when their far more dangerous then a loaded gun.

[@tyreonbooker5304]

You can tell that they were bitter about the ending of infamous 2 because they copied the ending into second son

[@Danonino-yb5dh]

The problem is that Nate Fox took the finals trophies as if people were aware they were voting.

[@screeno42]

Honestly, I feel all they had to do to make the return of conduits for Second Sun work is turn the clock further forward and clarify that the conduit gene is recessive. Cole setting off the RFI killed everyone with a pair of conduit genes, but anyone with only one was unaffected, and if two of those people got together, then new fully active conduits could be born with the DUP coming together in response to prevent another Beast incident. Have the time between I2 and Second Sun be something like 2 or 3 decades instead of only 7 years, and it works.

[@samwilsoncaptainamerica233]

Yeah I've heard that alot and I agree fix the time skip and show more world building then Second sons would have been perfect

[@papawedge7396]

Facts, it should have been decades into the future that way they could justify more crazy technology, too, it would end up for the better both in story and aesthetic. They can still include the Zeke convos just with a far older Zeke.

[@darkweeman133]

My man, the good ending literally mentioned the world DID NOT know cole was their saviour. He was only celebrated in new marais. Go rewatch the good ending again.

[@mrking1785]

You never heard of word of mouth.

[@darkweeman133]

@@mrking1785 Word of mouth doesn't spread far. There's a reason why delsin doesn't know who cole is.

[@InvertedWIng]

The endings worked just fine. The "problem" is neither one is sequel-friendly. The good ending removes both the protagonist and the conduits as a whole, and with them, the whole point of the series (as in getting superpowers and choosing to use them for good or evil). Meanwhile, the evil ending dooms humanity and makes way for the rise of the conduits, which makes the idea of becoming a superhero or a supervillain redundant. Both endings left a definitive note of finality to them, which is fine IMO. Too many series get dragged on when I would prefer they just come to a conclusive end, and inFamous 2 brought the series to a very poetic end in two ways. But that's not good enough for publishers, who insist on making endless sequels. Which is why we got Second Sons and the mess it turned the story into. Seriously, Sucker Punch should have just made a spiritual successor. One that could have even fit better with the writer's original vision for the next game. We didn't need another inFamous.

[@squallthegriever]

Mess? What mess? Many in world theories are given just like it works in real life.

[@godzillazfriction]

Second Son its writing is still much better than the full of messy fumble jumbles of a story/writing that inFAMOUS 2 is.

[@johnreidmusic]

I played both sides, but honestly, Bad powers were more fun. I'd always play good first though to get my own personal "canonical" ending before doing a "What If" haha

[@beauty_of_115]

me to man

[@acmiguens]

I'm just surprised more people didn't play both paths. I mean... That's one of the main things to do in the game.

[@squallthegriever]

I'm sure it's cause not many wanted to br bad people.

[@Lastjustice]

I always play both. Infamous I played the evil ending first, but I still saw the good ending. When I played infamous 2, I played the good ending first, but I still replayed both paths. Like what weirdos only experienced half of the game? I assume they were factoring who beat what path first, but never playing as a villian at all? Just odd as not like any game in this series takes a terribly long time to complete both playthrus with.

[@ryanhowe5753]

The problem with 2’s ending is how it raises a question of will or will the RFI not actually eradicate the plague, so firing the RFI is a leap of faith at best and a gamble on the entire population at worst, while John’s method is prove to work. But then it basically makes the choice for you immediately after that scene, which almost implies “even if the RFI fails at eradicating the plague and everyone dies, this is still then right thing to do” which is just a slap in the face

[@icedshadow5789]

For real. They should have reversed the ending. The good ending where you become the beast to save as many as you can. Sacrificing your brother life, something Kesler would be proud of. The greater good. The evil ending where you selfishly risk everyone life on a gamble to save your brother life. Risking the fate of humanity itself for one person you care about. Would have be more interesting.

[@Lastjustice]

For me, my knee jerk reaction was to side with the Beast. If I was viewing from in universe, the beast's plan is proven and works as a way of 100% ensuring some part of humanity will survive this plague while Cole has ZERO knowledge if the RFI will do anything other than kill them and all the conduits near it. The idea will cure the plague worldwide and resolve everything in a neat bow is pure hopium as there's a much greater chance it just kills everyone in the area of influence who's a conduit and the plague still rages on killing off all the humans. This seriously needed more testing on a smaller scale before just trusting the plan and hoping for the best. Using the RFI is bad science on paper, only because the game plot demands it works out accordingly that it does, but there's absolutely no reason Cole and company should just assume it would and frankly should be far more skeptical to something that will potentially kill them and ultimately achieve nothing else useful. The flip side is what if the conduit genes then became erased from humanity for good then? If humans never realize their full potential, that almost far worse than humanity dying off and conduits replacing them. Second sun has Conduits return for...REASONS..but in universe at the time of the RFI going off, this could have easily been the reality. Having a race of humans that have super powers is way better than world where that never happens. I can hardly label either of these ends good or ending, as that's not truthfully how it plays out. merely good or bad for who be on the receiving end of the death as this is a zero sum game. There's no second place medal here, it's either life or death. Far too much death to call the "good" ending a good thing. The world in the "evil" ending could easily turned into a far better place in a short time with all remaining population being powered, but the game doesn't remotely entertain the longterm impact of it's choices beyond the bodycount. It just labels them in the simpest terms when this all far more complicated than that or a simple numbers games which comes off as terribly naive.

[@creatorsfreedom6734]

you are to be food for plant's nothing more

[@godzillazfriction]

​@@icedshadow5789ok that's just doesn't work in concept.... 1st of all, i don't think kessler would be proud considering hoe much he has done for cole and probably a bunch of other coles to destroy the beast but in the evil ending, he poetically becomes the beast he was swore to destroy.... the endings of inFAMOUS 2 work really well in concept and how its a matter of perspective but the problem lies with how the game portrays the decisions even before the characters were making it seem like it was a grey choice but the devs were like fck moral greyness...let's word it out like it's black and white... 2nd, is how the sudden characters or motivations shift so weirdly, i get zekes doing but i don't get why Nix acts the way she does and how morally right she becomes where she ridicules cole from right and wrong all of the sudden... Kuo on the other wouldve had so much potential considering how here quote foreshadows herself ''people do strange things when they're afraid" - but problem lies with how underutilised Kuo was used in that aspect and how the thing that got her powers made her instantly switch to give her powers to Cole which again just comes out of nowhere... there was no development whatsoever with Kuo in this aspect... inFAMOUS 2 has great concepts but fail in its execution.

[@icedshadow5789]

@@godzillazfriction I mean nyx wasnt even good at the end she just wanted the best dead even if it killed her. And you are right Kessler wouldn't be proud. Kesler wanted Cole to kill the beast, because it killed everyone he loved. So he forced Cole to become a hero, a hero who would save for the many even at the cost of those close to him. A hero that choose to save the most people even at the cost of the few. A hero like that wouldn't risk the sphere if there was a chance it doesn't cure the plague and only kill the conduits. Meanwhile Jhon had a plan that worked. It would kill all human but save every conduit. Between everyone dying and only humans dying the choice is easy to make to save the most people's. Good Cole would side with the beast. Like in the cinematic for the "evil" ending. They put the good Cole for that ending. Clearly showing it wasn't suposed to be a good vs evil choice but a gray one at best.

[@jakemcmanus5387]

I'm a die hard fan of infamous 1 + 2. They mean a lot to me. This was a very well made video but I think u are placing the problem on the wrong game. Both endings of infamous 2 are amazing, the problem is second son.

[@guilhermehank4938]

They had to come up with a better setup or reason for the conduit gene to be back. There were very easy ways around that

[@GuscioRosso]

100% agree.

[@AshPrimeDCFC]

I would've loved a third game where Cole was the villain because of the actions in the second game. I was hoping for a similar premise in Resistance 3, if you know what I mean...

[@katrez.]

It really really really would've been a great game, and a far more wild closing of the infamous trilogy. Just seeing Delsin fight evil Cole on a Kratos vs Baldur/Thor type of fight is but a dream

[@Netherwolf6100]

This oddly enough shows that despite the ability to be a horrible person without consequence, the average gamer are honestly good and decent people who will do the right thing, even at the cost of their own personal desires and victories. Seems many game developers who write good and evil endings seem to never take this aspect of gamers into account.

[@godzillazfriction]

ok that's just not true... many ppl are conditioned to do good 1st then bad in the 2nd playthrough... just because ppl played good 1st doesn't make ppl all of the sudden as 'honestly good' or 'decent ppl' like wtf is that... you do realise that Public Opinion can sway the ppls perception of the game and how they need to play the 'intended' path.... just look at Red Dead Redemption 2, it's the prime example of my argument

[@Netherwolf6100]

@@godzillazfriction I do love how the concept of your "proof" undermines itself and you don't see it. The idea that people innately choose Morally Just and Good Options as their first choice on impulse and later pick the opposite out of curiosity in a consequence-free situation and scenario doesn't discredit their original intent on the subject of their decency. Not sure where you get the idea that someone can only be a good person if they strictly choose good options and only the good options in a fictional scenario and that picking the evil option to give full weight and context to their prior decision doesn't erase the motivation and instinctive desire for a positive outcome but that mentality is more corrupt than being intentionally evil for the sake of it.

[@godzillazfriction]

@@Netherwolf6100 why tf are you bringing ppls morals into them being a decent person just because they picked the good karma 1st.... i dont think you truly comprehend what i am saying.... you never even explained why my supposed proof undermines itself... how does that even make sense... the RDR2 community is so fcking fixated on ppls playthrough to be 'high honor' which ppl count that as the good version of the character even though that's not the case for since originally the honor system wasn't supposed to be a morality system but Rockstar screwed it up by making it a morality system in the 2nd game but anyways, ppl are so conditioned to playing a 'Good Arthur Morgan' that ppl will attack others who dont play the way the majority of the community sees as 'intended' if you ever seen xQc's RDR2 stream, he was low honor the whole way through and got the low honor going back for the money ending but ppl too so much of an issue with that and one person said that he should k111 himself because he got the low honor ending... i am not surprised ppl acted like that because of how the RDR2 community.... which is why just because you pick the 'good option' 1st doesn't mean that ppl are decent or genuinely good

[@godzillazfriction]

@@Netherwolf6100 plus you're the one who thinks that choosing good options makes ppl genuinely good hearted or decent ppl.... are you sped or something.... im going to take your logic and apply to someone who chooses the evil option 1st.... so let me ask you this... are they a genuinely good hearted or decent people based on choosing evil 1st?

[@TheSoCalledZoner1]

@@Netherwolf6100 why do you support the deaths of millions

[@WarrenValion]

I don't really have a problem with Conduits surviving the RFI (at least from a logistical standpoint, from a narative and character standpoint, it still kinda annoys me). Most of everything that happened was entirely theoritcal and IIRC the last Dead Drop in 2 had Wolfe saying something like, "God, I hope this works", so the idea that it didn't kill every Conduit isn't the real problem. My issue stems with how there are active Conduits in the world of Second Son. The Conduit gene within certain people is only activated in InFamous 1 and 2 by Ray Sphere Energy by having a Ray Sphere blow up in their fucking face. The only two exceptions to this are Conduits that had their gene activated via the Beast's power and Kuo. In one of the Dead Drops Wolfe mentions to Bertrand that he has found an alternate way to activate the Conduit gene and it's likely this method was used on her, "the God knows what" they put inside of her. But in Second Son, the world is more akin to X-Men or My Hero Academia where people who are Conduits are born with powers and then activate over usually emotional tramua. That's not how that worked and it just doesn't fit within the same universe. That's what really bothers me about the world that Second Son creates, and nothing in the Cole's Legacy DLC goes to explain that.

[@NotThatGuy_YepThatGuy]

Well said

[@godzillazfriction]

well Second Som still has better writing in its story/plot and the character of Delsin and how evil karma is much better written than Delsins good karma.... the good karma paths aren't really that written well in general... the only one that makes it decent is the 1st inFAMOUS game although it still stems of the issues somewhat like in the later games.... take the train scene for example, Cole by saving ppl and saving ppls families has lead to Cole being appreciated by the crowd for saving the ppl inside the train but the problem lies with how the evil karma also has cole help innocent ppl and save families... if you're playing by the games narrative then it makes no sense for Cole to kill innocent ppl willingly yet still in return gets stoned and Coles turning point starts when he decides to blast someone in the crowd so he wouldn'tve been crossed... the whole Evil Karma path shows way more nuance than the good karma cole... you can still do bad choices while you still have the good karma and unrealistically, you'd be treated like the Messiah in that train scene whereas thr evil karma makes the most sense since its still way too early to even appreciate cole from majority of the public like Cole was already stoned by the public and both decisions still resulted in the same outcome as it should since doing a good deed isn't going to magically heal everyone's suffering... plus inFAMOUS 1 is written in a way like how you don't have to stick to one karma decisions through the whole game... you can give ppl the food but still go into the evil karma and where you'll get the evil karma train scene which pays off well... you can make Cole be entirely dependent on how Trish views him and do good things in front of her but a decision like firing a bolt in the crowd against the police show your true intentions.... inFAMOUS 1 is the only inFAMOUS game that has the story written like this with your own interpretation whereas inFAMOUS 2 is a straightforward mess.

[@GuscioRosso]

True.

[@Garcian_Smith]

Just a slight correction to the title of video should be: Why Infamous 2's CANONICAL ending didn't work. Funny enough everyone ended up liking the non-canon ending WAY better. Sucker Punch wrote themselves into a corner story wise and couldn't get free of it.

[@ki700]

I kinda disagree with your thesis here. You seem to really enjoy inFAMOUS 2’s endings which goes against your claim that they “don’t work”. Your problem is with how the developers chose to follow up on those endings, not with inFAMOUS 2.

[@Demsky83]

I wanted to see the continuation of the bad ending. It would have made for an interesting premise.

[@mauricehopes9105]

Having to kill zeke after bonding with him over two games was gut wrenching. The evil powers were interesting, but if you liked the characters at all finishing the evil play through was rough. Plus you're dooming tons of regular humans to death. Way more than the few conduits that will die in the good ending. I'm not surprised almost 80% choose good over evil.

[@johannesseyfried7933]

"Few".... Yes, but only in comparison to humanity in general. According to Zeke, many people were dropping dead all around the world.

[@Demsky83]

I did both. Chose the good ending first.

[@Lastjustice]

I hated zeke, so fry that jerk.

[@Erengoon]

And that's why we got infamous second son I choose the evil path first in both game cause I knew what was up

[@Catspirit123]

They should have just made a game after the evil end anyways. Branching timelines are fun to explore and the evil end is far more interesting. I do find it funny how often devs are surprised when players overwhelmingly choose to be good in games though. It’s just natural for most people to want to be the hero imo

[@TheKueiJin]

... as someone that will never purchase another piece of shit plastic cunt, i'd be happy if they actually remaster/remake/re-anything to PC. Second Son is not an infamous game.

[@jackkain7141]

Reminds me of the Metro games. The canonical ending to Metro: 2033, as seen in Metro: Last Light, was the bad ending.

[@Phrogly]

I loved Infamous 2 and even played the hero because I liked the powers, but i hated that good ending. Zeke peer pressures you into killing yourself and thousands of others, and then the world celebrates that all the different people are dead.

[@MILDMONSTER1234]

So like your typical X-men comic

[@Horacio_Poggi]

Yeah, that was my problem with the good ending that other people needed to be sacrificed and not just Cole. If it was just Cole, I would have been fine with it.

[@MILDMONSTER1234]

@@Horacio_Poggi what’s wrong with it? Needs of the many vs needs of the few is a very common thing in stories

[@Lastjustice]

@@MILDMONSTER1234 Making this purely a numbers games just turning this into the Trolly problem. There's alot more factors to this than just what saves most people. For me, my knee jerk reaction was to side with the Beast. If I was viewing from in universe, the beast's plan is proven and works as a way of 100% ensuring some part of humanity will survive this plague while Cole has ZERO knowledge if the RFI will do anything other than kill them and all the conduits near it. The idea will cure the plague worldwide and resolve everything in a neat bow is pure hopium as there's a much greater chance it just kills everyone in the area of influence who's a conduit and the plague still rages on killing off all the humans. This seriously needed more testing on a smaller scale before just trusting the plan and hoping for the best. Using the RFI is bad science on paper, only because the game plot demands it works out accordingly that it does, but there's absolutely no reason Cole and company should just assume it would and frankly should be far more skeptical to something that will potentially kill them and ultimately achieve nothing else useful. The flip side is what if the conduit genes then became erased from humanity for good then? If humans never realize their full potential, that almost far worse than humanity dying off and conduits replacing them. Second sun has Conduits return for...REASONS..but in universe at the time of the RFI going off, this could have easily been the reality. Having a race of humans that have super powers is way better than world where that never happens. Sorry be a darwinist here but just through lens of what is a better long term potential I am going side with the Beast. Simply going well more people live or die based off this decision feels like really poor way to weight out this situation.

[@Shoxic666]

The Infamous games' story is just 1 and 2: Second Son, First Light and Festival of Blood are all just "What IF?" stories.

[@VongolaXZax]

Eh, for me the good ending being canon did work. I like the good ending, it gives a lot more weight to Cole's decision, while also showing his selflessness and humanity in the end. 78% really did beat the 22%. I'm looking forward to the next game in the series, after second son.

[@mrking1785]

There won’t be a next game because of Second Son.

[@akaliimaene2103]

even in good ending I still don't think Cole is dead I feel like that lightning bolt that struck him maybe resurrected him

[@MidnightWolfSDJ]

I absolutely loved both endings of Infamous 2. I thought it was the perfect sequel.

[@erickurquidez8944]

A KZbin channel that covered an indepth analysis about the lore problems and how the game falls short in story and characters is Zivalene who says how the good ending is bad cause there was no way to make a sequel out of it without breaking the story

[@DPowered2]

Watched a video that explained karma in games pretty well. Developers need to understand the question "Do you want to kick the puppy or not" isn't a deep moral question because hardly anyone would choose to do that. Choices need to me more nuanced and ask more questions than do you want to kill no one or everyone. Not everything needs to be gray but the way games do karma is dry and shallow.

[@KittanBachika]

I hated second son... The two first game are excellent and i can't believe that they dropped everything just because of an ending choice... There's so many games that followed with a sequel following a specific ending and it never was an issue

[@GuscioRosso]

Same

[@Corre569]

Why not make Cole the villain in Second son which will make a much compelling story. Yeah would be similar to prototype but thanks to the karmic feature it makes it more interesting.

[@Olderaccount17]

8:55 I don't think the risk had so much to do with implementing choices as it had to do with the creators making dumb, extreme narrative choices like killing your main character or wiping out either all of mankind or all the super-powered beings whom you need for your game. Essentially, the problem was falling back on old, played-out tropes to create a big, shocking ending without thinking about the consequences for the future of the saga.

[@dwest84]

This video actually made me kind of sad. I played each of the Infamous games twice so I could see the good and evil stories. People played 2 good, because that's just the default for most players. I wonder if going through with a 3rd game based on 2's bad ending wouldve been a bad marketing move, but it wouldve made for a far more compelling game that people wouldve likely remembered for longer than Second Son. Oh well. I just want the series to come back, or even a remaster of 1 &2. I loved these games.

[@CyrusCageSCWS]

The good ending works perfect for me because I never wanted to play another infamous game after it. It was a perfect ending.

[@roonkolos]

The funny thing about good and evil endings is that this isn't even exclusive to Infamous A LOT of people tend to do both sides. First run as good, second as having fun being a dick and the third (if they do one) tends to be the one the person enjoyed the most Being Good is rewarding but being Bad tends to be more fun

[@writerlairchannel2636]

Robbing banks is definitely fun in real life but most play for the good ending😂

[@Kasaix]

I always thought they were going to bring Cole back. That question mark-shaped bolt hit his coffin.

[@INikeAir]

Wwoooaaahh. Never even knew this. Never played second son. Kind of bums me out I didn’t chose the evil ending. They should definitely come out with Infamous 3 and make it a continuation to the evil ending

[@soulsofdeath2569]

The phrase the candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long means someone who exerts themselves the most tend to die young. So its fitting in that sense on both sides. No matter what Cole will have a short life least in the sense of what he was. He becomes the beast he gives into evil and is changed forever. He saves everyone he can and he dies doing it. Ether way he exerts what he wants and the cost is his life.

[@GoldLight73]

Honestly my biggest gripe is that it’s just universally accepted that Cole killing the conduits was a good thing. The needs of the many over the needs of the few is a morally grey decision at best; you might have saved MORE lives by wiping out the Conduit Gene, but thousands of people still died.

[@odiedodieuk]

I really liked the end of I2. Neither ending was “a good or easy choice” for me. I went for good and it was a tough choice to make. I thought it was satisfying.

[@tigersharksvt]

I played through both sides in all 3 games. It probably would be very expensive. But they should do a true 3rd sequel and do it for both sides. I desperately want Cole to come back.

[@erickurquidez8944]

Same, I would pay $70 for a ps5 exclusive infamous game with a bigger world and more powers

[@RyanxDunn]

Infamous 2's good ending is actually one of the few games I've felt emotional over.

[@jeremalice]

man i miss infamous i adored those games

[@DownWithBureaucracy]

It's less about the ending of Infamous 2 and more about the plot of Second Sun

[@anti-roxas850]

I COULD have!!!! It could be similar to Prototype 2. When you have to kill the monster you create. One Conduit vs. the thousands who follow Cole. I honestly would prefer that over Second Son

[@Quitt_Chan]

They provide a perfectly good reason as to why conduits exist in the game. The problem is that they don’t give you the reason in the opening cutscene where backstory is being given and it is not given plainly. So most players will simply it was ignored. Anyway the gist of it is the new conduits are second generation conduits. They are known as prime conduits. Your dup troops are more similar to last generation conduits. It’s highly implied that not only did the ray sphere kill the conduits but it actually awakened some people to be prime conduits. They really should have put all that information into the opening cutscene. The game still has its own issues though. It felt rushed and lacked the depth and meaning behind choices that the first two games had. I don’t mind that it was a short game, that’s not what I meant by rushed. I just feel like they didn’t put as much love into it. Feels rushed out the door as far as story goes.

[@Drawerofstuff00]

I'm one to argue that the return of Conduits could be explained away with a potential return of Kessler. To date he seems to be the only time traveler in the InFamous series.

[@Demsky83]

Kessler is Cole.

[@Lastjustice]

@@Demsky83 Which makes the whole thing a bigger mess. If Cole died in infamous 2..wouldn't Kessler be erased from ever rewriting the timeline? Timetravel is a messy thing, really should be avoided as Kessler ends up a time revenant as a result of either ending of Infamous 2.

[@thedocilefish]

​@@Lastjustice it could be a non-linear timeline. Kessler going back made a new timeline, since any changes he made in the first game, such as killing Trish, would have already changed time to effect him ever going back.

[@doctorqrow3452]

Cole goes from a bike messenger to electric Jesus in a barely two week span and I love it

[@avinashshaheed9597]

the story of the good ending... ended... Would make perfect sense to continue with the evil ending since that is left on a cliffhanger. This sht is what happens when people think they learned enough to know better than the person that lead/taught them (nate fox)

[@GamingTopTen]

I just had assumed that the reason conduits still existed is because a subset of conduits were immune to the RFI's effects through special genetics. I mean, if 1/1000 people could survive the plague, who's to say 1/1000 of *those* people (1/10 in the canon) couldn't survive the RFI? Also yes from a story perspective the Good Ending for inFAMOUS 2 is much more compelling.

[@amcheeze6782]

Actually it was 78% played the Good ending "first"...😒 Which means about 78% of people went on the play the evil ending without much promoting.

[@808Mark]

I hope they remaster the games and bring them to steam. Ive always wanted to play Infamous but didn't have a playstation growing up

[@agm5424]

The channel OverusedBruh did a fanmade story for a speculative infamous 3 game. In short the story is about Good Cole vs Evil Delsin.

[@mrking1785]

It should be evil Cole vs good Delsin

[@bobaorc7839]

Cole MacGrath in Infamous 2 is voiced by the same voice as Ellis from Left 4 Dead 2. Not related to the video but I always found that amusing. "This one time, my buddy Zeke-"

[@wander7812]

In my opinion, this could be solved if they make just 2 games of each ending. *- Infamous Second Son: RE* Remake the Second Son to not completly null the good ending of Infamous 2, fix all its narrative and world building problems. *- Infamous Alternate / Infamous 3: Alternate* This game, would showcase the sequel they planned after the Infamous 2 evil ending. I'm a writer for fun and Ik how painful must have been throwing all the amazing things they planned on trash like that! Like that, everyone is happy! Basically make it so Infamous-2 Both Edings actually equal to two split sequels, satisfying both parties and also giving them the opportunity to make even more money with that! Other games done similar before. Metal Gear basically did similar with Metal Gear Rising (MGR).

[@skat26onPSN]

Don't you realize that people played both endings and even those that played evil first still thought good ending was canon?

[@salas0727]

I never understood why they didn’t do multiple endings that just carry over to the sequel. Had so much potential but they did kind of write themselves into a corner

[@WhiteManOnCampus]

Second Son was the first game I returned in a long time. I bought it for PS4 release and was so disappointed. So few things were explained, conduits' abilities and origins were changed, the entire DUP thing was nonsense, and above all since Delsin gets people's memories when he copies their powers how did smoke-guy give him false memories in the first draining? So few types of enemies, a setting made for the developers to autofellate themselves rather than appeal to players, and so many development and story decisions made simply for plot convenience - without a throwaway line or explanation to justify those in-story. InFamous 1 and 2 are some of my favorite games, and Second Son just depressed me.

[@Jo_as_in_Joke]

before i started watching this video i thought "isn't it obvious? because second son exists!" and that was exactly what the video was about. inFamous 2 is one of the very few games I got the platinum trophy in, and one of my favourite games ever. Still, I like second son, but you gotta suspend a lot of your disbelief when getting into the game. Still, very interesting to know the evil ending was the canon one, lol

[@TheSoCalledZoner1]

you got copium people preferred the good ending

[@writerlairchannel2636]

Gamers: "why my choices doesn't matter?" also gamers: "I wish the evil option was cannon"😂

[@NotThatGuy_YepThatGuy]

This doesn't have to be the reasoning. They very slightly (but very intentionally) hinted that Cole could have survived/been resurrected with the lightening strike at the conclusion of the good ending cinematic. Using the logic that the vast majority of players chose the noble sacrifice of the good ending to justify Cole being gone, when they left that very obvious dangling thread AND having his sacrifice ultimately mean a lot less because conduits still exist was, for me at least dumb. And it definitely set Delsin up for failure before I even played 2nd Son. Fortunately his Chara ter didn't work for me anyway so I can dislike him on 2 fronts.

[@squallthegriever]

They never said it was 100% true. Was just a what's gonna happen next. It's not literal.

[@MegaMya1000]

I was definietly disappointed with the story of infamous second son, infamous is my favourite series (here's hoping to a remastered edition) but starting second son with infamous 2 being ignored really took me out of the story and made it so much harder to connect compared to the first two

[@lordkai59]

My idea of second son. Have Delsin be the Luke Skywalker. Have him slowly realize his powers. Frank can be in a conduit militia with Cole and Kuo. Frank recuits Delsin and Cole takes him in and personally trains him. As he's doing Cole's work, he gets on a mission where he saves people and it leaves him conflicted. With the good karma, for every time he saves people or do a good thing, the more he resists Cole until the point where he's had enough to fight cole and either kill him or convert him back to a good guy. With the evil karma, he gets more greedy and power hungry until he becomes like Cole and fully joins his side or battles Cole and takes his power thus killing Cole in the process. In the good karma, you can make Cole or Kuo kill frank to make it more personal. With the evil karma, it can be a random akomish and it can be like the evil ending for second son. He visits betty who has the plague and he gets shunned and orbital drops the akomish. Everybody get out the way, I'm cookin here

[@tabletop6396]

imo this just shows how we are programmed at a young age to be the hero. All the superhero movies and cartoons we watched as a kid. I actually like the evil ending better now. And if you think about it the evil ending can be good because they really had no idea if the rfi would cure the plague. John's method was the only proof they had to cure the plague. All of the conduits could have died for nothing.

[@nuyabuisness7526]

Okay batshit insane idea but what if there was a way to make both endings canon? We already know that time travel is a possibility in the series. What if the cannon ending was Cole sacrifices himself while the rest of the Conduits survive, then the following game shows an evil cole winding up in the timeline of the good ending and wanting to take over. That way you get the best of all options. The world is relatively the same and still has conduits in which you can play with. The plot of the series is wrapped up without being hand wavy, and both groups of players get to point to "Their Cole" being cannon in the timeline. All without breaking the internal logic of the universe. Then you could have a young new Conduit inspired by Cole's sacrifice, and needing to fight to maintain his legacy against Cole himself.

[@KarmicCk]

It would have been more interesting ditching the morality system and having a coming of evil Cole story, some Darth Vader type stuff.

[@wow1371]

they could have easily changed the outcome a bit from "curing the people will kill conduits" to "we don't know" or "It will kill a lot of conduits" or something along those lines. It is the single worst part of infamous series and the reason I dropped second son early. The narrative that was built into the second game and I had accepted was so strong and alive in my head that I just couldn't enjoy second son.

[@TheGlogster]

The InFamous 2 ending works. The entire existence of Second Son doesn't work.

[@mrking1785]

It only works if you don’t have sequels in mind.

[@jumpingmoose5554]

They could've made a game that went off the evil ending, just like splinter cell conviction went off the ending where same killed lambert.

[@marklai6952]

Really want to see the evil ending game sequel of infamous 2. If there's ever going to be an actual infamous 3 title in the game.

[@cearlach32]

Thinking about it infamous second sun could have made both of 2s endings Canon, know hear me out evil Cole could have been tyrannical to the point were he gained the power to travel between timelines as that's not out of the question with the first games story, so evil Cole comes to invade the good endings timeline chasing some rebels/escapie conduites that fled to the good timeline to escape him and one of the ecapies is our main character

[@skat26onPSN]

I just want a ps5 upgrade for the Cole series

[@psionicdante3532]

I’m sad we never got a game baced on the evil ending 😥

[@travontewinston3244]

It would be nice if suckerpunch would let fans know on whether or not if they are completely don or not with this franchise and if unsure just let us know

[@laura_maria2542]

The first time I ever played Infamous was in Infamous 2, so I had no clue about the karma and good or evil ending. So, innocently, I ended up choosing the bad choices/missions because: I didn't rly give a fuck, the "evil" power were so much cooler, and I had a huge crush o Nyx (I mean, can u blame me?) Bro if I new what was coming.....

[@orelyosif5852]

We need a Second Son remake with evil ending as canon

[@rolay7730]

Honestly, I picked the side of the beast on a fully good playthrough. They said there was only a chance that sacrificing all the conduits would cure the new plague. It was entirely possible that Cole could have killed thousands of people, not curing anything, leaving the rest of humanity to die now that all of the people with natural immunity were killed. We know that isn't what happened in the good ending, but I like to make these decisions using in-universe information from the perspective of someone in that world, and from watching the conversation between the to sides, I don't think anyone was in the right. To me, it looked like the "good side" heard there was a small chance to survive by killing thousands of innocent people with natural immunity and took it instantly with no hesitation. No one was fighting to just wait and not kill anyone for a bit. So to me, neither side was inherently good. I would rather save the thousands that had natural immunity than slaughter them for a chance to save others. If there is a chance that they die for nothing and then everyone dies of sickness anyway. I disagree with him blatantly attacking cities to find people with immunity. That is just unnecessary. Honestly, if he had just explained to the world that he had a cure, but the majority of people die in the process, people would still flock to him. Millions are dying from sickness with no cure. They will flock to him for the slightest chance of survival. I don't want to go around attacking places, but I was mostly fighting against the side that I saw as trying to kill tons of innocent people while pretending it will be a noble sacrifice.

[@saarah0006]

I played as both good and evil in Infamous 1 and 2.

[@mohamedaanbdourahim4029]

I was kind of disapointed that infamous 2 followed the good path only. Man ! were you powerfull when you were Evil Too bad they didn't dig that part more. Second son felt too easy compared to the first and second to me. And the fact that you had 4 power in one felt weird. A dlc as "The Beast" would've been lit !

[@jakedewg.m4708]

I'm a big fan of the Infamous games but I got to ask I thought Infamous blood festival was a continuation or a sequel to the bad Cole ended I know Zeke is still alive in that game or was that just an aside game like FirstLight

[@WhiteManOnCampus]

I believe it was supposed to have happened during the events of InFamous 2, not afterward.

[@roamingcatholic]

What bothered me about the good ending was that in my opinion it wasn’t exactly morally good, imo. Yes, you saved more people than in the evil ending, but you still condemned many innocent people and yourself to death. Especially Zeke’s reaction to the evil ending bothered me alot. He’s your best friend, a brother to you, and he pressures you into choosing your own death to save himself and the majority of humanity. In the end the morality of the game comes down to just a ratio of humans killed vs humans saved. And that isn’t exactly what I consider “good”.

[@ghoullyman]

They should’ve did something that connected to it to second son like if that was coles son or sum but I still like the ending

[@nickbh15]

I don’t understand why they can’t just make another sequel now for the bad side?? Continue with coles story and everybody is gonna play that shit regardless of what karma they chose

[@luizgba957]

I tink the sperm bank saves the conduit gene because if its frozen it was bring back to life

[@comboy1786]

honestly it wouldn't be hard for them to use both endings make it Canon and possibly tell a good story with it an idea I've always kicked around and I won't be surprised if somebody people have thought about it too good ending timeline and the bad ending timeline were two converge what I mean is like say one day Delsin minding his own business and this conduits comes out of nowhere losing control and next thing he knows he ends up in the bad ending timeline evil cole in charge everything is gone to heck I'd be curious to see how that kind of situation would play out

[@Hunk1676]

tbh cole feels like a anti-hero then a villain specially in 2 he just prioritized his own kin (conduits) over normal humans put it this way you need to make a choice eighter humans will go extinct or apes witch one would you choose ? that was the case with cole

[@emerby83]

Insanely disappointing to hear that the intended sequel never happened. I feel fairly confident in saying that I'm sure most people played through AT LEAST a second time to get the other ending. And that would render the reason for canning the would-be sequel irrelevant. But what do I know, I was one of the ones that completed it with each ending several times apiece.

[@zipjacketgamer1097]

It would be great if they can bring all of the infamous games to steam you can call it the infamous PC collection🤔😁

[@writerlairchannel2636]

Still waiting for a pc port (at least for a Second Son)👴

[@blvdes]

same

[@saaaaaaaaalt838]

Sucks too because the bad ending is realistically the more logical decision. The beast had proven his methods effective and wolf had proven himself to be untrustworthy. It was a very real possibility that the RFI would kill all conduits without curing the plague. Effectively letting all of humanity die to the plague after wiping out the only people who were immune. The good ending sees Cole gambling the lives of every human on earth.

[@lostonegrey1555]

Thats what i hate the most is that the evil ending really is a realistic and most compelling choice but people past it off as just the bad ending. It goes much further when you think about coles life aswell. He was molded since birth by kessler to do what was necessary to save the WORLD. Cole hated kessler and it would be no surprise that kessler created a monster due to his actions of making cole make moral choices. When kessler and wolfe created the rfi they knew it would kill cole and all conduits. Why would cole still follow the destiny his worse enemy had made for him only to die with a 50/50 chance of the plague being cured. And prehaps the selfish reason of simply would you be truly be willing to sacrifice yourself?

[@ryanhowe5753]

You have no idea how happy I am to see that I’m not the only one who sees the problem

[@lovethepandainyou]

So... Infamous 2 has good endings and they worked fine, but Infamous' Second Son had bad beginnings?

[@Kiran-ye7ix]

I miss the inFamous series

[@mr_indie_fan]

I forgot infamous 2 was a thing and i saw the title and was like "don't you mean second son?"

[@TeoReviews]

Loved this fuckin' game so much, still in my top 5 even after Red Dead, Bloodborne, MHW, and Elden Ring. ahahah just an awesome fuckin' game and story. Loved the endings too.

[@McDuckee69]

I hate how you had to tell me in a simple, understandable, easily comprehensible way that my favourite franchise will never come back.

[@PapaMidnite__]

I still say half as long, twice as bright because of this game

[@tek87]

Most people chose the good path because they believed it would be cannon. It was a self fulfilling prophecy. They should have good with the original plan.

[@ryanhowe5753]

It also makes more sense for canon Cole

[@TheSoCalledZoner1]

you guys got a lot of innocents killed very thoughtful

[@popcornfilms1]

Them changing their creative direction for a sequel after 2 due to player data is honestly pathetic.

[@uploadupgrade]

Bro idk what anyone is talking about cole is alive the lighting shocked him to life he is just laying low.

[@TheSoCalledZoner1]

liar

[@cjbladesworth8049]

@@TheSoCalledZoner1he’s not lying. Festival of Blood was canon before the Second Son Retcon and he was alive there, the NPC’s dialogue confirms its after the good ending

[@dragonwren1893]

Well I know I'm in the minority because I always do evil playthrough whenever I'm playing infamous in general being good in this game series is so generic and boring evil is far more interesting and fun in my humble opinion

[@nightxblaze8384]

i bought the ps3 JUST BECAUSE of the first Infamous

[@spideyfan300]

The Good Ending works pretty good imo and is technically the canon ending according to Second Son... but that bad ending was a joke. The only redeemable part about it was the fight with Zeke. Might have been super sad and gut wrenching, but what followed after that is just so so lazy and laughable.

[@TheSoCalledZoner1]

but you get to save millions by being evil heck good ending killed a lot of innocents

[@TheSoCalledZoner1]

the writing is super unique