Cleared Hot Episode 171 - Nic McKinley

As an Operative who served as a Country Chief for a Special Unit within the CIA, Nic witnessed not only the epidemic of child trafficking within illicit markets but also the unrealized opportunity to apply his understanding and training to influence this global crisis. When Nic began to work with experts to better understand the problem in the United States he found it impossible to turn a blind eye. As a result, DeliverFund was officially established as a 501c3 in October 2014 as a counter-human trafficking organization, focused on ending sex slavery in the United States.
Nic spent 11 years in US Special Operations as an Air Force Pararescueman prior to being recruited to the Central Intelligence Agency. Due to his highly specialized training and experience in both special and intelligence operations, Nic has a firm understanding of these illicit, illegal markets and has the highest levels of training to effectively combat them.
www.magicspoon...
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[@migolio]

0:00 - Athletic Greens 2:03 - Magic Spoon 3:40 - Feals 5:23 - Duke Cannon 7:07 - Nic McKinley Introduction 7:54 - Podcast Starts 8:13 - Zip codes matter in Montana 10:45 - How much has Montana changed since Nic grew up? 15:12 - Don't California My Montana 17:07 - Montana bypassed the NFA regarding suppressors several years ago 20:01 - Can America self-correct its polarized and divided state? 21:50 - Going to vs from big city living 23:02 - "The grass is greener..." 25:24 - Nic's life after moving from Montana 26:53 - Why the Air Force? 29:45 - The difference between PJs then and PJs now 31:40 - How the longest war in our history has led to growth from infantry to SOF 34:40 - The scope of PJ responsibilities and training 39:24 - How 9/11 changed Nic's medical training 40:40 - The roll of duct tape of shame (tangent) 44:36 - Medical concepts that didn't take off and the abundance of training available for civilians 47:58 - What made Nic transition out of the PJs? (leaving the AF, becoming a "private" PJ, joining the CIA) 56:00 - What was the nature of Nic's employment with the CIA (contractor, "loan", etc.)? 1:00:15 - What is the process of getting out of the CIA? 1:00:50 - How to spot a CIA "fraud" and there's good people in the CIA, FBI, and the ATF (I guess) 1:02:30 - Did Nic have a college degree when joining the CIA? Are degrees required? What are they looking for? 1:06:32 - Making a career out of the CIA 1:07:01 - Why did Nic leave the CIA? 1:10:10 - What got Nic interested in the topic of human trafficking? 1:14:30 - Nic found a human trafficker in Helmand Province, Afganistan 1:17:11 - Why doesn't law enforcement do anything about human trafficking? 1:19:33 - Human trafficking in the US 1:20:57 - The best resources NIc used to research human trafficking 1:23:10 - The need to go after human traffickers 1:25:06 - The ambiguity of terrorism contrasted with human trafficking & "minor-attracted persons" 1:27:14 - Bringing up tomorrow's warriors and the need to raise warriors against human trafficking 1:28:00 - Nic's organization DeliverFund 1:30:43 - Is human trafficking happening in plain sight and the online nature of this issue 1:33:10 - Law enforcement's slow adoption of DeliverFund and Nic's training, the need to fund 1:36:40 - The lack of a CTC equivalent for human trafficking and the creation of PATH 1:39:50 - The relatively light sentencing for human trafficking 1:40:20 - Women as human traffickers and how PATH helps find and convict traffickers 1:41:44 - How human trafficking differs from prostitution, smuggling, and the use of common transportation methods by traffickers 1:43:24 - Why don't victims just not get on the plane, bus, etc.? 1:44:36 - The general framework/timeline of a human trafficking victim 1:50:25 - What happens to pedophiles/traffickers in prison and the difficulty of prosecuting adult traffickers 1:54:58 - How do traffickers recruit, maintain, and advertise victims? 1:59:07 - What is the scale of human trafficking in the US? 2:01:06 - What is the average age of a victim? Mostly female? 2:01:28 - How big of a dent have recent operations against human traffickers made in their trafficking efforts? 2:03:30 - The lack of manpower and prosecutors to combat traffickers 2:05:50 - The holistic approach of DeliverFund to combat traffickers 2:08:21 - Has any trafficker surprised Nic given their "day job"? 2:09:12 - What can someone do if they think they're witnessing human trafficking? 2:12:33 - Electing officials that will combat human trafficking 2:15:03 - Can human trafficking ever be eradicated? 2:17:04 - Are any states worse than others regarding human trafficking? 2:18:49 - What is the most common expression of human trafficking in Montana and illicit massage parlors 2:21:51 - Fundraising goals of DeliverFund 2:23:58 - DeliverFund's goal of giving former SOF guys a new righteous mission 2:27:30 - Conspiracy theories, the adoption of these theories by former SOF guys, and what they need 2:30:45 - The difficulty of recruiting SOF guys for DeliverFund and how this community could change the game 2:34:00 - How to donate to Deliverfund 2:35:50 - Thanks and closing 2:36:40 - Duke Cannon 2.0 2:37:24 - Outtro and how to spread Cleared Hot like redheads have to spread that SPF 100 just to get their mail in the summer Powerful podcast. Have an equally-powerful week my friends. Crush your goals and stuff. We finally got pinned last week. Now we need a new reason to throw phallic objects at Andy. If you've got any ideas shoot em this way.

[@drunknnirish]

You sir make Mondays suck less

[@mikedudley9975]

Morning buddy. High five.

[@migolio]

@@mikedudley9975 Five High!

[@migolio]

@Ali Welcome as always!

[@migolio]

@@drunknnirish Likewise!

[@austinalexander9086]

Andy call Joe we need to get this out to a few more million. I know I'm doing nothing in it so the word we is completely irrelevant. but I feel like Joe and have a great time picking this guy's brain excellent podcast in general yeah I'm going to donate a bit. Might slap one of their stickers on my bumper. Major problem that needs to be resolved.

[@ironclad0331]

This was a little tough to read, but once I understood wtf you saying... I agree. The more ears the better. Do your part to turn ears on to things you believe in.

[@WW5RM]

@@ironclad0331 so did he leave out a bunch of punctuation? Only thing I can come up with to make it make sense.

[@zixuanchun5273]

Andy stumpf is really crushing it with the guests!!

[@asymmetricvalue]

Awesome cast, Andy. If possible, Pat McNamara would be a fantastic guest. Would love to hear you too hit it off.

[@michaelbrady4208]

Pat Mac is a legend! Andy and Pat would be awesome on one together.

[@dill316TV]

Second that!

[@MrRolled1]

Yeah for sure. Andy and pat would blend super well

[@whereisevan]

Love Pat Mac, but personally, if he’s going to have another CAG guy on the podcast, I would vote for John McPhee. He’s been very open about his contempt for SEALs due to what he deems as a culture of recklessness, and I would love to see him and Andy hash out those issues.

[@EditingWithPopPop]

@@michaelbrady4208 Pat was cool, and shared a lot on Jocko. Andy and Pat being straight forward guys and laidback would make for a good talk. Plus, Andy's ability to make people feel relaxed and laugh would be great with Pat.

[@andrewmoran627]

Unbelievable podcast. So hard to listen to things like this but so thankful for guys like Nic and others that are actively combating against this horrendous community of evil. Thank you Andy for having such incredible guests each week and allowing these great men and women to share their efforts and hopefully get even more support.

[@Dizz00005]

This is a guy that should go on JRE it's an important issue that is very important and ignored, JRE has a huge platform that this message should be broadcasted on.

[@JenniferJayneJ]

Could NOT agree any more! And as previous episodes have touched on, JR is equally as passionate about keeping children safe. I can’t imagine him not helping and making connections or financially contribute as needed. Andy’s reach has been fantastic also. He knows so many different people who know different people, who know different people. I pray that this episode reaches as many people as humanly possible.

[@aaronjohnson8840]

this, so much this.

[@volcomfreak111]

Cleared Hot Gang rise up

[@shammy3138]

Awesome dude, we need more people like him.

[@internet_internet]

I love you guys. From, Texas. I’m a 7-8th generation Texan. (We lost count) Where I grew up used to be a pretty rural area outside of the Austin suburbs. It was mostly cattle ranches, with only a few county roads. Now, it is a super-suburb. I can barely recognize the place. I’m only 26. Almost every creek with fish, crawfish, & little shrimpy things that I played & explored in when I was a kid is long gone. Dried up, filled in, & turned into drainage runoff areas. Every single wooded trail that I scruffled around growing up is now dug up, & replaced with large bodies of either concrete, or asphalt. 95% + or our wildlife, which used to be so abundant that it was actually a bit of a problem, is now long dead & gone. They cut down almost all of the trees… Don’t let any of that happen to Montana.

[@BostonsF1nest]

No offense to anyone who lives there but Billings Montana is one of the biggest shit holes I’ve ever been to. I swear everyone was on meth. It was just a very bizarre atmosphere. Was gonna stay the night but had a feeling my car would be on cinderblocks when I woke up in the morning.

[@chrissheffield5468]

Nic is doing great things. When I was a LEO, we had just implemented Human Trafficking training. The impact of what trafficking does to young people is disturbing. I had a Call For Service at a safe house for trafficked children. When I spoke to the person running the place a female victim came to the door to see what was happening. She saw my uniform and practically shrank away: Someone had conditioned her to fear law enforcement.

[@justinkey11]

I agree, Joe Rogan needs to have Nic on!!!!

[@Sam12345632]

Rogan sold out. Andy is the real Rogan.

[@TacticalXRays]

D’Anthony Hollaway

[@Adam_Hebert]

I so badly want to be part of this man’s team

[@billt9687]

I do too, Adam

[@Jeremy-zj2jo]

Me too. So bummed I didn't go into the military now I'm older, no training. But I wanna rip that freaking apart

[@YourCouchsucks]

After roughly 20 years of working child exploitation crimes prior to retiring, in my experience, most law enforcement agencies are sadly and woefully untrained, underfunded, and unprepared to handle these types of crimes. Thank you Nick for stepping up.

[@mongo9034]

Thankfully finally there is federal funding and training along with a small task force for trafficking in the States.

[@davidgamino1106]

@@mongo9034 lknlj99jhu

[@redzen5149]

Same thing Mike Rutland said on Patrick Bet David’s podcast. Why are there so many missing kids but the government doesn’t do jack shit.

[@210corona]

STOP TALKING ABOUT MONTANA. I can relate being a native Texan dealing with the mass exodus of California and other states. Being a “secret”, maybe not. But honestly Montana hasn’t been overrun yet....let’s see what this convo looks like in 5 years....hopefully no different but I highly doubt it. It’s not the people, it’s the mindset they bring and that they are so unwilling to assimilate.

[@manga3040]

@Eric Sisler That is a big assumption and over generalization.

[@chars8772]

By far, the best podcast I’ve heard from Cleared Hot, so far. Disappointed you didn’t have more views or likes on this one. Nic was a fantastic guest with a great story. Thank you for bringing on such a competent guest to discuss the disease that is human trafficking. This was definitely worth the 2.5hrs of my day today. 👍 Keep up the good content.

[@kathyborthwick6738LakotaEmoji]

Agree-We need to know more to do more!

[@nj65367]

Waited all weekend for this

[@lemonshuh6340]

Please get Tony Eafrati on here. Would be a hilarious episode.

[@Saltyshorttimer]

I could listen to BTF Tony all day long.

[@Dizz00005]

Indeed

[@LtShivangPhilips416]

Dauba, get to tha choppa

[@markmickelson5884]

The most powerful podcast I've ever seen or heard. This needs to get to Joe's podcast ASAP

[@realRainz]

Nic should run DHS Dept. in our country

[@ghostscantkill]

It absolutely curdled my blood when hearing about the trafficker truck driver. I'm a truck driver, but I'm 100% not ok with all these scumbags in trucking. They're disgusting! If I didn't have wanderlust, and earn six figures from trucking I'd get out. But it is fun to smoke check these tards once in a while. It's on them. They always start it. Great show Andy!

[@Maggie-ze7zj]

I'm going to assume everyone who dislikes this video is either a human trafficker...or gets a lot of "massages"

[@gravis00]

There’s tone of law enforcement resources...for years...regarding HT. Not sure what this guy is talking about. International and national symposiums and conferences going back a long time. Seems like an excellent human being, and he’s no doubt doing awesome work. But he’s very cavalier in “no one is investigating HT, there are no resources”

[@TinusTussenGas013]

C.O.C.K. OMG i cried form laughing

[@charliemike13]

Have a feeling he runs up against some serious roadblocks in his endeavors unfortunately. Budgets man... his mission set should most definitely have the budget-give him the Pakistani gender studies budget instead of giving it to Pakistan.

[@bcc4908]

to answer Nic McKinley's question about SOF guys combating trafficking... CRAIG SAWMAN SAWYER... former marine / SEAL / DEVGRU guy running V4CR (vets for child rescue)

[@jacobtuck6735]

Nic is fucking awesome, what a great guy with an amazing mission

[@internet_internet]

2nd or 3rd time listening. Came back after Kara, the kicker of asses. May God bless the organization of DeliverFund, and all those involved.

[@jimhartzell5092]

Very tough and hard topic !! I believe Craig Sawyer has an organization that works on this topic !! Great Stuff !! Stay Strong and Be Safe !!!!

[@bcc4908]

100

[@justinkey11]

Holy shit balls.... this was an incredible episode!

[@LordPerique]

Man that crushing evil shirt looked overzealous and a little douchey at first, totally at odds with Nic's personality; then I heard about his day job and everything makes sense again. Truly fitting tag-line!

[@connorhamilton6760]

Why would 10 people dislike this like Bruhh what’s wrong wit u

[@BostonsF1nest]

There was over 420,000 missing children in the United States last year

[@BostonsF1nest]

@@sydt7104 less than 400 a year? Uhhh negative. globalmissingkids.org/awareness/missing-children-statistics/

[@BostonsF1nest]

@@sydt7104 ok? And? That’s the case with most statistics. They give you a rough estimate. Obviously it’s not the exact number because the ppl are missing and in a lot of cases they don’t know that they’re missing but they wouldn’t report the number of missing children to be in the neighborhood of 420,000-460,000 when in reality it’s 400.

[@redzen5149]

This dude makes a huge point. All these missing kids from various ages but no new coverage of them.

[@isaiahrivera7407]

Better and better Andy! Thanks for putting in the time brother!👊🏼

[@datdapgotskip]

Ask Mr Mickinley about trafficking in regards to our own US Govt. Are they involved

[@danielleshapley6282]

PLEASE VIEW THE POSTS ON THE JANE DOW FACEBOOK PAGE THAT I CREATED TO PROVIDE YOU WITH THE EVIDENCE YOU NEED. #EDWARDSNOWDEN

[@bigsamdog1]

If you move to a new state(or country) you want to(and should) assimilate into that population and/or culture. Not bring along the baggage you are trying to get away from.

[@hughmac13]

If you say so…

[@richardksimpson800]

How do we support this organization? Is there a similar organization in Canada? If so, how do I support them? Thank you.

[@joehavin1]

Its awesome how many of our former élite Operators are choosing to get into the fight against human sex trafficking of kids. I just heard another ex CIA Ground Branch guy on a podcast Bazzel "Baz" talk about his private Operation in rescuing kids. Delta Force member " Geo Hand" is another one putting his skills and experience into the fight. I cant believe we dont have more Task Forces focused on this problem/mission specifically.

[@MellowYelloh]

God bless Nic. Dude is a true hero! Great podcast as always Andy👍🏻

[@texasgirl8674]

Certainly an eye opener. Great educational episode. Unfortunately, a very disturbing topic. Great guest and great host!

[@ironclad0331]

How do you know all of this and not do something?.... follow the lack of funding and you're likely to find the high level involved I would imagine. That subject makes me wanna come put together that race car.

[@brianboyadjian408]

"BUZZKILL" is the most important/impactful guest so far. His kindness represents how we feel about the topic yet has the beautiful combo of brilliant and badass that can actually make a differenceThank you for continually interviewing people who are cut from the same cloth as you, keep it up Andy.

[@depbugg]

Love it!!! Another good one. Ok, had your PJ's now how about an even lesser known Medic. Get a SARC or SOIDC!

[@nikkisims8656]

Awesome podcast Andy. I'd just like to say, thank god for people like yourselves. Thank you gentlemen. Cheers. 👍🇦🇺

[@phantomopera5525]

I’m surprised about the lack of resources. The UN has several programs on human trafficking (UNICEF and UN WOMEN come to mind, the World Migration Organization) and Europol has an entire division, I’d be surprised if Interpol didn’t.

[@HardcountsAdventures]

Once again excellent podcast and a real eye opener. I will be sharing urging people to watch the whole thing and will be having a conversation with my kids so they know how to protect themselves by being aware. Thank you Nic McKinley for all that you are doing, you are a true hero and thank you Andy for providing a forum for this information to be heard.

[@Reddgie512]

this guy sounds just like Jack Carr

[@ZondaF355]

Pat Mac and Andy are my two favorite Spec Ops dudes. Think those two along with Mike Glover are on my A Team. Such humble yet serious badasses who have kicked major ass for America. Much respect for their heroism and humbleness.

[@GG-tw1qw]

Wow man heavy episode. Fuck I wish I could do something about this problem too. But where should I begin ?

[@TraddSlayton]

One of your best interviews to date! Wish you would put your guest social media and/or their companies sites in the description. Nic is a great dude! Ok ok Andy is ok also! Haha, love your stuff!

[@marinawolf]

That was a hard one to listen to. I was hoping the apprehension/conviction of consumers would be addressed, maybe next time.

[@Thelstern7]

Andy, Tim Ballard would be another great guest to continue this conversation and spread awareness of human trafficking. He's a former Special Agent at DHS and is the founder and CEO of Operation Underground Railroad.

[@JW-28]

Get Mike Ritland on. He is electric.

[@MrRolled1]

YESSS ANOTHER PJ fuck yes

[@luciussulla987]

Dude is an actual legit keyboard commando... fucking awesome.

[@ericbuckley6636]

Why don’t you ask one of your PJ buddies about William Pittsburgher

[@northeastohio5150]

I have a 1978 jeep cj-7, still have the original straight 6. Its being rebuilt. We stuck a Chevy 350 in it until my straight 6 is done, bad idea. Lol

[@alabama_dawg7396]

I use to have a '78 CJ5, recently started looking for another one and I'm pretty shocked at the prices.

[@hughmac13]

@@alabama_dawg7396 Me too. I've wanted one since high school, in the mid nineties, and the prices are up there now. Don't even look at FJ-40 prices. They were expensive back then, and now…

[@bmxnc22]

I've watched this twice. Thank you Andy & Thank you Nic. You guys are doing good stuff.

[@papabear328]

I knew of this being an issue in less developed countries but it is mindblowing. This model needs to be taught and replicated in other countries too.

[@corygodfrey7881]

Amazing podcast. Thanks for facilitating this Andy and bringing Nic in. Makes my heart happy to hear the work he is doing

[@BGrunty]

Get someone from CIA SAD

[@earlyprimate]

When I did AF basic in late 1988 PJ was offered to everyone who wanted to volunteer for it within the first week of basic.

[@markbrouk7857]

This guys awesome, wish I could work for him.

[@WilliamBrownGuitar]

Brilliant. Nic is an awesome individual with a huge heart. Doing immense good.

[@imm0rtalitypassi0n]

Stellar episode. Thank you both for coming together and putting this episode out there. Child trafficking is a big part of my heart's biggest fight in this world. So grateful for people like this stepping up to pick up the slack. (I'd love to see Tim Ballard, of O.U.R. on here at some point- it'd be a nice way to cover the out of country part of this fight as well.)

[@MichaelPCarr10]

Better than Joe Rogan Best out of Santa Cruz

[@scottquigley2627]

At about 1:03 Nic mentions a 20yr old girl who was kidnapped in Cabo San Lucas - what happened to her?????????????

[@Djamieson713]

"my sources on sex trafficking are to professors at Harvard" andy: "how do they get their info on it?" "they study slavery" me: XD

[@cory9306]

This was amazing information, thanks for your efforts Andy and Nic, this topic needs a national platform!

[@dawnstewart9995]

Andy, best podcast yet.Nic is an amazing soul.

[@lorrispratt7696]

Hi. This vid is so educational! I've been trying to find for an informative vid similar to yours that explains everything in this KZbin video. 👨‍⚕️Your lesson actually is like the vids of Dr. Ethan! His videos are totally informative and he actually helped me a lot on diet. He is an insightful health enthusiast on KZbin and he talks about medical school and medical school. I suggest you see his KZbin out and give the Dr a like! 👉 #DrEthanTips

[@FINEST-uz9ek]

“Divided states of America “ I Could not agree more I have been saying same to my family and friends.... red or blue state pick one that governs and culturally aligns with your principles and move there... I’m a conservative life long NYer and will be making that decision to move very soon, possibly Florida . If anyone knows of great places in Montana please post.

[@wilsonwray]

Anybody else here wish that they were part of the "off air" discussions?

[@joesavant5490]

Marine infantry here. Live in NM. You need help with the human trafficking problem, I’m here brother. HMU. I’d love to get involved and continue to serve the people of my country.

[@XXNerdzillaXX]

James Madison - The means of defence against foreign danger have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people.

[@7846NEWCO]

Thank you Nic for the amazing job you do !

[@tegli4]

What baffles me is that the US is having existential crisis because of slavery happening 150 years ago and at the same time, ignoring the slavery that is happening right now.

[@jackhammer0925]

I remember seeing guys get stuffed between 2 mattresses, taped together like a sandwich and thrown off of the 3rd floors of the barracks lol. I honestly don’t know how any of us lived

[@jackhammer0925]

@@sydt7104 oh yeah, I know lol. Back when it was acceptable

[@stephenbeach6700]

Going to donate after hearing this. Thanks Andy

[@STMVO]

Great episode, sir. If you ever have him back, I'd love to hear how he and his teams cope with the environment they're in. You hear stories about how hard it is on the people who deal with this stuff. Nic is an amazing guy and I'm glad he's fighting this fight. Sounds like, based on some of his comments, he just might be a Christian as well. ;-)

[@hughmac13]

I hope not. There's no room for superstition in that very serious and important business.

[@trader8CTA]

Love the pretention free format and the facial expression when you talk about what you'd like to see happen to human traffickers!

[@Ok-551]

That’s tough work seeing that everyday. Good man.

[@helloharry1418]

I lmao🤣🤣 when andy said " i miss social cues, but i can tell you how to murder every one in the room" Sarcasm is his primary weapon system 😆🤣

[@mikewinter7697]

God bless Nic and his boys for doing this for the kids!! Those people should be put down like the animals they are!!

[@mr.tall-man1573]

"What kind of sick bitch takes the ice cube trays out of the freezer?!" -Tom Arnold

[@alexpuertoop7750]

Fucking great content and unbelievable knowledge🇺🇸🤙🏼

[@corywatterson7560]

Maybe they need to focus on trafficking instead of frivolous bullshit

[@MathiasLaakkonen]

Nic is an amazing guy!

[@gh8066]

when andy asked how nic got his data/information at about the 1:21:00 mark, i don't think it was answered satisfactorily

[@mascasa7502]

Great episode. Thanks for bringing this problem to light!

[@francescaperalta4764]

Katejoseen on Instagram has great resources and info about human trafficking

[@maxchristensen4742]

In ur intro dude calls out red smoke I've always wondered if different colors mean different things or does it matter

[@findmurdock]

Black out the screen, and all of a sudden Andy's guest is George Clooney. 😉

[@andershaggstrom3945]

I´m jaded by nature I guess, but this made me burn with rage. Needed to hit pause and go punch the bag.

[@jackdowdell6684]

Holy fucking advertisements in the beginning dude

[@bmcantrell619]

Undesignated Seaman checking in.

[@nemesisbreakz]

Human traffickers should be viewed the same as serial killers.