Cliffe Knechtle Debates Atheist Matt Dillahunty | Is There Life After Death?

[@AbsolveAsGaad]

I actually like the fact Cliffe is debating a well known atheist instead of college students.

[@hunterhestekin7420]

It really helps the college students though!

[@chraosta]

Just proves that he’s down to tussle, reveals his faith even more tbh

[@reeves1001]

The college students have better takes honestly

[@RebelsaintPH]

Debating students actually has a chance of accepting the word and spreading the word through their conversations with Cliff. A well-known Atheist would probably stick with his ideals because he is famous for it.

[@WilbertRamos777]

Cliff doesn't debate students he goes to the university to preach the word of God & the students are the ones that come with questions & doubts he simply tells them what the Bible says & what Jesus preached

[@starlight-xt7po]

Listening to this debate I've come to one conclusion, the difference between the atheist and the Believers is gratitude. The Atheist sees a beautiful flower and thinks that's a beautiful flower. The believer sees a beautiful flower and thanks God for their eyes, thanks God for the sunlight, thanks God for this beautiful creation, thanks God for this life and the chance to experience this beautiful flower.

[@neojake9389]

And then goes next door to butcher his neighbor just because he believes the same thing but has a different God in mind, this is not to say that an atheist is better just to say that believers are no better, and most of the time even worse.

[@chokobirdwatsmyname]

Seeing the beauty in a flower as an atheist does not require gratitude towards an imaginary being. But gratitude for being alive and for having the life that you have or having gratitude for actual real people around you is not absent among atheists. Using a bad example where the only difference between your theist and atheist is the presupposition of a god proves nothing but the obvious fact that an atheist will not thank an imaginary being that he doesn’t believe exists. Tells you nothing about an atheists ability to show gratitude

[@ChuckBaxter-sv2tn]

Thanks God? which god? that's your difference between an atheist and a believer?!! are you kidding me😮😅.

[@Taifundonnerking]

@@neojake9389 ur mixing believers with non believers. A believer wouldnt hurt anyone. Just bc this happens doesnt mean one to believe will do it. Thats the same as saying bc some man killed a cat all men kill cats. Doesnt make sense. Someppl can act or even think they believe but action shows not thinking

[@Taifundonnerking]

@@chokobirdwatsmynameive been atheist and now christian i can say they were times i passed a beautiful sunset just by thinking its beautiful rather than thanking its there. And why should u. Being atheist is belieiving everything was created by chances and coincidences so why should u thamk anyone for the beautiful flower if no ones responsible. When i was atheist i like u and other used religion to deny it. Grwoing up was realizing this doesnt make sense. Either u believe in something throuly or u dont.

[@DrRGIII]

Why can't presidential debates be like this?

[@kingboo2981]

because America's government has become extremely corrupt, too corrupt to have a proper democracy or republic. We see that today especially in the campaigning of Donald Trump and Kamala Harris, they both try and use fear "if you don't vote for me America ends". No matter who is elected, it will cause more unrest

[@P_4BKM77]

@@ayyy2603 lmao

[@P_4BKM77]

@@ayyy2603 thats at some point Populism, kinda like what Hitler did

[@jerrebrasfield4231]

Because the news agencies are owned by foreign companies that wish to manipulate the usa and politicians into doing what their owners wish. The owners are the few but mega rich who want a one world order and announced their plans. You will own nothing and you will like it. The recent changes in the digital domain that make your purchases a purchase to use rather than own are just another step in the plan.

[@p_louis]

It used to be more like this, until...

[@Finsup2100]

Why did you cut so much out? The original debate was over 2 hours long. I wonder why…

[@walkerburks6920]

I know they have another video about this debate. They probably just split it up.

[@metal-z9p]

That's how they usually do it. Cut out huge chunks to make the nonbeliever sound uneducated and/or take things out of context to make it seem they agree with the believer.

[@walkerburks6920]

@metal-z9p I figure they likely just did it so they have more videos. I don't know much about KZbin's monetization, but it seems to me that if 1mil people watch one video, they make less than if 1mil people watch two.

[@Afrikoe]

Cliffe almost gets it.

[@ryandaripper9937]

Probably cause he got handled

[@freshfishbowl]

2 minutes in and he already says that he believes an objective morality, that morality doesn't exist just because he says so, but that morality exists because we assign value to things. That is a self-defeating argument. If things have value because we assign them value, that is not an objective value.

[@cldaniels7632]

​​​@bizbreakdown1You are incorrect....the meaning of objective, is that there is one truth regardless of how you feel that day. Murder is OBJECTIVELY wrong, Sex trafficking is OBJECTIVELY wrong, do you disagree?....you can play mental gymnasyics if you want, but no good parent is going to say "well that person that kidnapped my child is right in his/her own mind, so who am I to be saddened and angry about it? It's right to them so it's valid...." I mean come on...you could never truly live out a morally SUBJECTIVE lifestyle...because objective morality exists, and it exists because God put right and wrong discernment in us. You know it, no matter how you may spin it.

[@johnnybgood7442]

@@cldaniels7632is killing objectively wrong?? Is there no scenario in which killing someone is the most moral position you could take? Does this transfer to animals as well?

[@cldaniels7632]

@@johnnybgood7442 My apologies for saying killing instead of murder, but yea, I meant murder is objectively wrong as it can only be murder if it's out of malice, either way, it does require forgiveness.

[@johnnybgood7442]

@@cldaniels7632 I figured, honest mistake. Would you say owning other people as property is objectively wrong?

[@cldaniels7632]

@@johnnybgood7442 I would, but owning people and slavery took on different meanings in the biblical days. Slavery is objectively wrong though. No person should force/oppress another to do their bidding as we are made in the image of God and are already assigned very high value by God

[@PepasGarage]

To hear Matt say God could show me Himself tomorrow, and he still wouldn’t change who he is or what he believes. Tells you everything you need to know right there!!!

[@niblick616]

That is a straw man. How could anyone know your god had shown itself when you can't even describe it in any meaningful or rational manner.

[@PepasGarage]

@@niblick616 a straw man on who’s part? My claim is not solely based off my own interpretation. But my faculties help me infer that by what Matt says he wouldn’t believe in God even if the Lord did undeniably show Himself to Matt. And there was no denying it. Matt basically says even if God were to reveal Himself it wouldn’t change Matt at all. He’d still go on doing what he does. That tells me it’s not an intellectual issue. But a moral issue that Matt has with God.

[@EuclidFusionSupernova]

That god isn't real -- a figment of your imagination... nothing more!

[@mike8386]

Why would he change who he is even if god showed himself directly?

[@EuclidFusionSupernova]

@@PepasGarage Not at all -- even if we grant that that someone is convinced a god manifested to him or her, there's literally NO way anyone can be sure it wasn't a delusion! There's no way to measure or recreate miracles in a way that could EVER be studied. YOU believe faith is the only way -- that ALSO absurd because you can convince yourself of ANYTHING on the basis of faith.... so, faith is not remotely a pathway to truth. Either YOU coopted your gods' intentions and desires and YOU'RE wrong -- or your GOD created a sensibility trap that NO HONEST PERSON can escape... in that case, your god's not only a moral monster for the genocides, rapes and lies, but also an unsufferable idiot too!

[@coolguy5988]

So many comments attacking Matt rather than his arguments

[@drsprite8650]

His argument makes him look dumb

[@coolguy5988]

@@drsprite8650 and what does attacking his character accomplish?

[@drsprite8650]

Attack ? I ain’t seen bro get jumped sounds like someone’s sensitive to the truth regardless how you feel

[@DJ-Synth]

I have (3) letters that completely destroys any of Matt’s so-called arguments: 👉👉👉 D N A 👈👈👈

[@coolguy5988]

@@drsprite8650 what?

[@BodyBuildingWithAI]

Not gonna lie, that one point rocked my world. When he talked about how brain injuries are known for changing someone's whole personality... If you were an atheist & your new self becomes a Christian... Are you still the same person? How would God judge us? If today I was Matt, and tomorrow I got into a horrible car wreck that turned me into Josh. I'm not "Matt" anymore, but Josh believes... how are we judged? It doesn't necessarily make me question God's existence or anything, but it certainly brings into question how we will be held accountable.

[@wisetheman1950]

The bible has a simple anwer for this. Everyone will be judged fairly

[@fancypants5371]

@@wisetheman1950 yes but what is fair in this context

[@wisetheman1950]

@@fancypants5371 that is not for me to decide. God has the ultimate moral understanding

[@johnathanscott4187]

@@wisetheman1950so your original comment is a nonanswer. Solution, nobody knows and we’re all guessing

[@wisetheman1950]

@@johnathanscott4187 And? Are we suppost to know all about God and his judgement. I stated out the most important part, everyone is judged differendly and fairly.

[@Jehoi]

To all the Christians here, why do you reject other gods except yours? What makes your god real ans others fake?

[@christina8227]

our God has, I believe, more proof of existence, Jesus Christ actually rose from the dead and there is proof that he did so. Our God lives through the Holy Spirit, other "Gods" do not have that power. That is what I understand so far.

[@davidxxx711]

Other Gods believe you have to work to a standard or be a “good person” to go to heaven. Jesus says that we are all born sinner and always fall short of the glory of God so he died on that cross, lived a sinless life and defeated death because he rose up on the third day so that if we believe in what he did we can live in paradise with him.

[@elitezenkai9435]

The reliability of the advocates and figures representing. Jesus is the most reliable person based on the evidence.

[@Ammeerah-j3i]

Allah is Satan, greatest of deceivers , black rock in Mecca started as Baal worship. Traditional Islam allows adultery, idol worship, and assaulting your wife. Al makarin. Jew is different from jew “ish” Jewish. Why are they known as a adjective and not a definite culture. Look up the khazarian god eaters. Synagogue of Satan. Christ is the only way.

[@Here_is_Waldo]

What evidence is there for Jesus? The Bible is a claim of what happened, but it's not actually evidence in itself.

[@jennamarsh6137]

I miss my grandmothers so much. I just needed to hear some words of encouragement from Cliffe.

[@Lux-Crucifix]

I'm so grateful for my grandma for leading me to Christ. I miss her.

[@Lux-Crucifix]

I'm so grateful for my grandma for leading me to Christ. I miss her.

[@blaketrent8548]

My grandparents are dead and gone. There is no piece of them left at all, even a version in the afterlife. I find so much comfort in believing that.

[@JohnVictor-dr7m]

@@blaketrent8548 I fear being forgotten, do you fear being forgotten?

[@blaketrent8548]

@@JohnVictor-dr7m Not at all. Nearly everyone you’ve ever known will be forgotten. Can you name your great great grandfather? He is, likely, completely forgotten. If not him, then his father for sure. I’ll be forgotten in two generations after my death, and that doesn’t bother me at all. I’m genuinely curious, why are you afraid of that?

[@gordon3186]

*_It's not a religion. It's a relationship!_* *Who'd want a relationship with anyone who told you it's **_the only way_** you can avoid having **_their representatives_** throw you into a burning furnace where you'll cry and be in extreme pain? Matthew 13:49, 50*

[@lexudary.]

⁴⁹ So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth,and sever the wicked from among the just, ⁵⁰ and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing an gnashing of teeth. :Mathew 13:49-50. I don't see what's wrong with this verse. The wicked shall be separated from the just into the furnace. What's wrong with that? Unless you are saying that the wicked shouldn't be separated? Is that what you are implying or not. Please elaborate

[@gordon3186]

@@lexudary. --- *Except the Bible says everyone is wicked so we're all going to hell. EXCEPT for those who are "saved."* *"Knock knock."* *"Who's there?"* *"It's me, Jesus... Let me in."* *"Let you in why?"* *"So I can save you."* *"Save me from what?"* *"From what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in.*

[@lexudary.]

@gordon3186 no its more like a judge and the judged. The judge gives the prisoner a chance to get out of jail if he follows the simple rules he implaces but if he chooses not to after hearing this then he will go to jail for life. "Knock knock" "Whos there" "Jesus, let me in" "Why should i let you in?" "Because i can save you" "Save me from what?" "Save you from the doom that awaits you due to the sins you have done"

[@gordon3186]

@@lexudary.--- The "doom that awaits you" is solely of your god's own making; it's he who created hell and he who damns people there. Civilized judges don't send people to jail for life for jaywalking. Much less to one in which inmates, "...will cry and be in extreme pain there." Matthew 13:50 GWT

[@Panzer-Toji]

​@@lexudary.Wicked for using the free will god gives us? What a horrid judge

[@datsko6339]

21:42 "If there is no God, when you die, you rot. When I die, I rot. End of story." Yes Cliffe, that is exactly what we have observed throughout all of human history

[@tatesorenson9766]

So you're saying you can see what happens when people die? Lol you haven't thought about this have you.

[@Maksie0]

@@tatesorenson9766 Human death can be observed, and it has been observed throughout human history.

[@sofiabravo1994]

Yes you observe it because you are alive the dead don’t speak to the living. God already told us what happens after physical death you just don’t care.

[@jkomodo]

"Do not test the Lord your God" Lest ye be tested. May he have mercy on your young soul.

[@datsko6339]

@@sofiabravo1994 because there's no proof that it's true

[@CJandEllie]

Cliff's discussion about love is interesting. A decision versus "something you fall into."

[@MountainLabsYT]

That is love, its rarely portrayed that way.

[@NataliaMejia-t5r]

I was recently reading about what and how different people define love. Nonbelievers say that love is a feeling we get, while followers of Christ believe it is a choice

[@highroller-jq3ix]

@@NataliaMejia-t5r Or at least dopey ones do.

[@dues_est]

That's why one must "Fight for their love" in a relationship. Love is a choice

[@highroller-jq3ix]

@@dues_est It's hilarious that Christians can''t even get the most basic thing riight.

[@jamesconner3056]

What do I live for? How do I know it's true? My atheist response. Friends, family and experiences. Yes, I go to work and make money in an effort to enjoy my time with friends/family and to have experiences that enrich my life but to say that I live for work and financial enrichment? No, I have left higher paying jobs because they interfered with my priorities. How do I know it's true? I suppose the question is really, how do I know that living for friends, family and experiences is the right way to live my life? So ofncourse what do I (or we) agree on is the "right way to live"? Typically I think this revolves around positive outcomes which of course needs the same definement. So a positive outcome i could describe is happiness. I am happier spending time with friends and family. I am happier when I experience something like visiting an interesting location, holidays, concerts, art, movies, television, etc (experiences). So I live my life spending time with the ones I love, doing the things I love. And that seems to me like a good way to live.

[@TheJoeschmoe777]

What if making you happy meant you wanted to live like Hitler? What would make that choice objectively worse?

[@jamesconner3056]

@TheJoeschmoe777 do you think that Hitler got a positive outcome?

[@cagedgandalf3472]

That question is for Christians and believers, what is the point of living? Why not 'poof' all babies? Won't they have a better life in heaven. Why do they get sad when people die? People should rejoice

[@DonivonPaul]

I like this take and I would like to say that if I was an atheist and I wanted to do what made me happy I would do molly and coke all day to feel good. I would do whatever made me happy and whatever felt good. And to me my positive outcome of this would be a constant feeling of euphoria. Something I like to ask atheist is what makes something good or bad. If I kill someone because they do something I don’t like, without a God I fail to see how this is wrong. Just because someone says it may be wrong someone may say it is the right thing to do. I believe the reason we feel right between wrong is because of a God given conscience. Without a God there is no argument for right or wrong, at that point we are simply intelligent animals.

[@jamesconner3056]

@DonivonPaul Have you ever spent any time considering the paradox of hedonism? Additionally, what are your thoughts on the Euthyphro dilemma?

[@JaysContentMachine]

Love to hear from both sides!Great debate!

[@jamesconner3056]

13 minutes in, highly recommend anyone interested to research the historicity of the new testament and to review the contradictions in the Bible. Bart Erhman's work is highly recommended and can really open up the door to other scholars and works, deep dive into what we know. I mean, Cliff states at the 12:50ish mark that we have over 5200 Greek manuscripts dated between the 2nd and 10th century A.D. I think a very valid skeptical thought would be, would i trust a source claiming a miraculous event over a hundred years after the event took place. I think Matt's earlier point about how there are people today that will talk about their alien abduction experience being better evidence really hits home.

[@bartduynstee1577]

when i heard Cliff talking about the 5200, he very cleverly left out the copies of the copies of the copies and the non-existance of originals. this is what apologetics do. they leave out certain things or add certain things, hoping that people wont notice and then claim that he did not change anything.

[@Smallyardguy]

Do you believe Abraham Lincoln existed? If so, why?

[@jamesconner3056]

@@Smallyardguy really what you want to get at his how to weigh historical evidence. I believe that you should take a look at the following and spend some time asking historians how they determine the historical accuracy of a claim. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_method Cut and Pasted the following from the above wiki Gilbert J. Garraghan and Jean Delanglez (1946) divide source criticism into six inquiries:[3] When was the source, written or unwritten, produced (date)? Where was it produced (localization)? By whom was it produced (authorship)? From what pre-existing material was it produced (analysis)? In what original form was it produced (integrity)? What is the evidential value of its contents (credibility)? The first four are known as higher criticism; the fifth, lower criticism; and, together, external criticism. The sixth and final inquiry about a source is called internal criticism. Together, this inquiry is known as source criticism.

[@bartduynstee1577]

@@Smallyardguy better question......do YOU believe he existed? and if not , why not?

[@jamesconner3056]

@Smallyardguy I'm not sure if my original reply posted or not so if this populated twice, I apologize. I cannot accept that you genuinely want to compare historical evidence between Jesus and Abraham Lincoln so i assume that what is really troubling you is how to determine the historical accuracy of a claim. I recommend doing your own research but I have copied a helpful tidbit to hopefully get you started. Gilbert J. Garraghan and Jean Delanglez (1946) divide source criticism into six inquiries: When was the source, written or unwritten, produced (date)? Where was it produced (localization)? By whom was it produced (authorship)? From what pre-existing material was it produced (analysis)? In what original form was it produced (integrity)? What is the evidential value of its contents (credibility)? The first four are known as higher criticism; the fifth, lower criticism; and, together, external criticism. The sixth and final inquiry about a source is called internal criticism. Together, this inquiry is known as source criticism.

[@rileyfreeman4096]

he says do good things because it’s “the right thing to do” but what necessarily makes it the “right thing” to do

[@pussyhammer6969]

Reduction of harm and promotion of wellbeing. What is moral is dictated by physics and biology once we agree on promoting wellbeing as a goal.

[@russellmiller5609]

The consequences

[@tylerloop6448]

Are you saying it’s wrong to murder only because of consequences?

[@rileyfreeman4096]

@@russellmiller5609 so if you weren’t jailed for murder. it would be just completely okay to murder people?

[@DyingAstrix]

@@tylerloop6448 yes if murdering someone didn't hurt them or cause any harm or damage to anyone it wouldn't be crime . actions are bad because of what they cause.

[@mlayton1904]

Exodus 21:16 KJV - And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death." The bible forbids slavery.

[@mickynick9888]

No it Dosemt. A servent was a slave. It's just that a servant was usually treated as part of the family.

[@leonardooberdadealmeidamon2305]

@@mickynick9888 Yes, but in that time slavery was more of a job, in fact you could be payed or get promoted to a higher position from been a slave for a period of time, and also if you have a debt with someone you could pay it by working over 7 years has a slave. And of course, the where people that tried their slaves has actual humans, others not. However, you have to remember two things: To separate the servants from the mistreated slaves; and to separate the theocratical/old law from the moral law. The old law was simplely a way God used to keep Israel from doing more wrong while he worked in a way to free then from the control of sin, while the moral law and Jesus condemn slavery, and in many times like Genesis, Exodus and Philemon has Cliffe stated were slavery is treated has a punishment or something bad. So the right would be saying "God condemns evil" rather then "the bible condemns evil", has in the end without God the bible is just a book.

[@mlayton1904]

@mickynick9888 Two different things. So jews were servants in Israel, not slaves? Just work until their indepentured servitude was up and it would have been all good. God jumped the gun. Angry for nothing. I guess thsts one way NOT to look at it.

[@Yahshuaismyeverything]

Amen

[@russell6011]

What are you living for? - To become the best version of myself as I understand that to be. What evidence do you have that is true? - BS question because The Goal is not "True". The Goal is asserted as a personal value of the individual. So in that capacity it is an "Accurate" statement of the individual's goal to the question you asked, "What are you living for?". The actual correctly worded 2nd question is, "What makes you think that is the goal you should value to work towards?" Because, again, its a personal goal to each individual. As we learn and grow as individuals and as a person that impacts others in society, we may completely throw out that goal or just refine it to be more precise. All Cliffe is getting at for that 2nd question is, "How do you know your current goal for what you are living for is the actual ultimate goal you should be working towards?". Well once you discover an understanding as to why your answer to that question is wrong, then you should update your answer. If you dont, like how religious people refuse to update their understanding of reality, then you're picking your ideology over reality. You're living in a world of Wishful thinking. Adults dont do this. We may pick goals that we may never reach, like the ideal version of ourselves, but that doesnt mean that goal is unobtainable or not based in reality at all. This is all what Cliffe does. He uses language in ways that most people dont use these terms for or creates questions that are not actual accurate questions to the topic. Its all just Equivocation fallacies over word use just so that he can sound insightful and "spiritual" guru BS. Notice how Cliffe uses common everyday occurrences that we all experience as an equivalent experience of lots of people claiming to experience a supernatural event. Sorry but 100s of people claiming to explain an experience via magic is not at all equivalent to everyone describing an experience within the known properties of reality. Everyone getting in a car crash is not the same as everyone experiencing a magical event. Oh yeah drinking a Dr Pepper is just as common place as as casting a level 3 healing spell as a cleric of your favorite deity. Those experiences are the same right?

[@drsiege3434]

Using Mother Theresa as an example of love shows a terrible ignorance of the awful things she did.

[@Jujujgd]

What awful things did she do which disqualify her from being an example of love?

[@DoofyMusic69]

@Jujujgd , she had a belief in a subgroup of Catholicism that believed that unfortunate people are destined to suffer throughout their lives because God chose that for them so that they could be saved when they died, so for these kind of people, she only provided them with the least, so that they could basically suffer “in comfort” until they died. A study was conducted on her and her beliefs to confirm this.

[@drsiege3434]

@@Jujujgd @doofymusic69 has given a good synopsis. She was taking huge donations in millions of dollars and funnelling it to the church rather than its intended use to provide succour to the poor and suffering whom she treated terribly. There are whole documentaries about this.

[@afinsunny4757]

​@@DoofyMusic69 your subgroup theory was a " MYTH'". actually the criticizes of mother Teresa I mean specially the Christopher hitchens he He deliberately mislead the people. To believe in his conspiracy theories. Mostly the Western readers... I will tell you why He deliberately ignored the ground realities and the challenges faced by charity organizations in India due to the laws in place at that time. Specifically in the palliative care.. you will definitely hear about the pain management of her charitable organization... And the "theory" Say's she refuse to give Adequate Pain Relief medicine deliberately to patients to make them suffer maximum. Am i right ? And why I saying it's not true.. The answer is NDPS ACT on 1985 in India.. It's impact on pain management, and palliative care.. The Act classifies narcotic drugs, including various opioids like morphine, codeine, and heroin. And strictly regulates it's use... Christopher suspiciously never mentioned about this act in his book or anywhere.. He attempted to place the entire blame on a single person, attributing all the fault on mother Teresa including the one she have nothing to do with... As a indian i will clearly Recommend you to look up into this act deeply ... And the challenge face by her and other charitable organizations in India at that time... Self research is the key... And i am aware of the study you mention.. The specific study you are referring to regarding Mother Teresa in 2013 may not be universally recognized, as many academic.. Because this study was considered as a biased one...This study is considered invalid because it lacks a mention of the beneficiaries of her. By not including the perspectives and experiences of those who received care from Mother Teresa's organizations, the study fails to provide a comprehensive and balanced understanding of her impact. The absence of this crucial group limits the validity of the findings and reduces the study's ability to engage with the complexities of her legacy. Valid research should include diverse voices to ensure a well-rounded analysis... Not just that it is biased because it's Selective Focus, Neglect of Ground Reality, Influence of Preconceived Notions.. The NDPS Act (Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances Act) was amended in 2014 to address several issues related to drug law enforcement and to improve access to narcotic drugs for medical and scientific purposes.

[@randomdude5950]

​@@DoofyMusic69suffering can bring people closer to God. Its just the matter of the heart. To say God caused it just shows ignorance.

[@Ioulou66]

Matt came to debate. Cliff could only preach.

[@AcksgoOnReptiles]

Explain please? Because Clint does in game in answering questions ontop of the debate he’s not just preaching the word

[@mexdrago3009]

Exactly

[@Ioulou66]

@@AcksgoOnReptiles You weren’t listening. 👂

[@jefjaeger]

@@Ioulou66 I disagree. I thought Cliff was pretty clear on what his beliefs are based on. A person who simply doesn't want to even consider God's existence and the implications of that will simply dismiss any explanation or reason...

[@AOH2008]

Cliffe knows that debates don't win people with logic; they win people with emotion. Matt just wasn't as good. That's what really gets you, isn't it?

[@vladmakowski]

I really would like to watch a conversation between Cliffe and Alex O'Connor

[@seanyfaulkner7106]

I was just thinking that as scrolling the comments, I hope Alex can one accept Jesus

[@AgnosticThinker]

​@@seanyfaulkner7106 he probably will down the line

[@erikirl01]

@@AgnosticThinker you're deluded in more ways than one

[@Eggnog417]

100% Alex is probably my favorite atheist skeptic because he is clearly intrigued, we just gotta see if theres any amount of evidence that is plausible which would convince him

[@dotenks]

@@seanyfaulkner7106I hope you can get past your delusion, bud.

[@ryanphan5828]

If extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, why do we accept ancient stories as proof of God while dismissing similar claims from other religions or modern events? What makes one belief true and another ‘deceived thinking

[@rojofish504]

My man said “how many people believe in aliens? Not me. “ 👀 Congress believe in Aliens now though 🤷🏻‍♂️ 😂

[@dirkjensen969]

Exactly dude. Literally aliens are real the usaf believes

[@lineridergod]

No they don't...

[@rojofish504]

@ You must have missed it the hearing 😂

[@stevenna2918]

God is the answer you give when your out of answers.

[@velzun8075]

You're*

[@davidwatkins2171]

Look around you........the evidence of God is everywhere. How did NOTHING create everything?????? Please think about this..........May God Bless You..........

[@virz_z]

@@davidwatkins2171 Fr, like they say before the big bang there was nothing but science says matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, so howd it happen?

[@Epicurus48]

@@davidwatkins2171How did nothing create God? “God always existed” Yeah, that follows. fucking dense

[@javonte356]

@@virz_zit can only change aka big bang was a huge burst of energy from a single tiny point

[@NickHawaii]

For me a butterfly proves design 🦋 The metamorphosis process has too much evidence because you have to know where you are going to end up even before you get started. Think about that. 🤔

[@MrCrazySmurf]

It's no different to a lizard getting a new tail , or your body healing after a cut, all cells have a process of where they're going or what they turn into. Metamorphosis also evolved into what it is today. It's a process not a pre-ordained design

[@NickHawaii]

@ Yes all of it is amazing and requires not chance and random changes but sophisticated code. Do you know of any code in the universe that doesn’t have intelligence behind it?

[@MrCrazySmurf]

@@NickHawaiiyes , ultimately the entire universe is mathematical but that doesn't prove an intelligence mind, that's just an inference of the little intelligence that humans have but it's prove. All theist people who believe in God don't actually know if there is a god, they all try to calculate it by looking at the world and they will all say it's their believe but they don't know for sure. We are bacteria on a flying rock in space among billions of other flying rocks that inhabitable , how can we possibly figure out a god who created all this. Since the dawn of man philosophers, prophets, shamans have all been looking at the sky trying figure out God and in a 1000 years we will look like people who didn't know anything.

[@RaulLynx187]

Atheism is the lack of belief without evidence. Faith is belief in spite of lack of evidence. Atheism is the more honest and truth seeking view so I followed where the evidence took me, not where the stories told me to go.

[@saiyanrivals1612]

true belief does require evidence. blind belief doesn’t.

[@henrytate857]

@@saiyanrivals1612and Christianity is blind belief.

[@gamecrusher2024]

An Atheist says, "There's no proof of God. A Christian says, "I believe there is a God." Believing that something exists, is not proof.

[@Hmmjfifif]

Yup. Believing without evidence can be a blind belief. But if God directs prophets such as Isaiah, Micah, Zechariah, Daniel, David etc etc to prophesy that after hundreds of years a Messiah will come, will live a certain life and die by crucifixion hundreds of years before crucifixion was even a invented, and rise on the third day AND exactly like that hundreds of years later Jesus comes and live exactly as predicted, and die exactly as prophesied on the Cross and resurrects on the third day, I believe my faith is based on true evidence from the divine and my belief is not blind.

[@RaulLynx187]

@Hmmjfifif what God? You use a premise with no substance or proof of existence and demand all logic begins with your assumed conclusion. How are you blatantly this inept? You are instantly made obvious as a blind follower, if you can't discern fact from opinion, it's no wonder people demean your view point.

[@CarlRojas-y9r]

How many people would give up their lives in defense of their claim to have been abducted by aliens?

[@vladtheemailer3223]

Or for Allah.

[@pussyhammer6969]

People give up their lives for dumb stuff all the time

[@les1brown939]

A book of unknown authors is not evidence. The claim is the bible. The evidence is outside of that. It's not Rocket science

[@christianalvarez9635]

How do we know that ancient egypt existed?

[@AOH2008]

According to whom specifically?

[@jinthefifth980]

The author is god

[@henrytate857]

@@christianalvarez9635​​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠nice red herring fallacy! These two things are kind of similar but are definitely very differing. We don’t have a big book of in detail stories about ancient Egypt, we have some of what we think to be pretty historically accurate evidences. Like mummified remains, indicating a part of their culture. Then we made inferences. Which is why, in history books, phrases like “it’s believed” will get used a lot. The stakes are also lower. If we aren’t correct on a lot of the information about ancient Egypt, it’s not that big of a deal. With religion, wars have been fought, and many many many people have died. The evidence in regards to Christianity is essentially nonexistent. And as opposed to taking the source material with a grain of salt, Christians often use the Bible as this end all be all “evidence.”

[@UltimateKyuubiFox]

@@christianalvarez9635We literally have the pyramids, my guy.

[@Starchaser63]

I don't know who or what created life, and neither does anyone else.

[@idallas4964]

Have you read the bible? Maybe start there and see if God speaks to you.

[@Starchaser63]

@idallas4964 the bible was written by various humans over centuries....its simply a book 📖 written by people, and there's debate today about who wrote what ...

[@henrytate857]

@@idallas4964quit acting brash by acting like you’re certain of something that no one can know for sure.

[@Reignor99]

@@idallas4964 I read Matthew and it was very good, but no deity greeted me during reading.

[@jduke367duke8]

@@Starchaser63do you believe the history books that are taught in schools? Do you believe in evolution? Do you believe that the earth is 100 billion years old? If so, what’s different about those? Because all of those things are written by human beings as well. What makes history books, and theories of earth’s origin more “factual” or believable than the Bible? Honestly it doesn’t matter who wrote the Bible, if it is truth and the inspired word of God like the Bible says then honestly it doesn’t really matter who wrote it.

[@SouthernScratcherGirl]

Im a Christian who was raised catholic, and as a former catholic I can say that is one thing I have to agree with Matt on. Catholics think that we are supposed to suffer and that suffering brings us closer to God. I have never agreed with or liker that idea, among many other things the catholic church teaches and believes.

[@brooklynloutheskeptic]

I feel I have much more meaning in my life as an Atheist. My mind is clear and not confused. I see reality better and have no need to think magically. More stable minded and definitely more FREE.

[@Eman-wj8gq]

That's good. I'm not atheist but closer to agnostic. I will say this the Christian belief in god is so asinine it baffles me how dumb they sound sometime.

[@samuelzapata4151]

But isn’t the most rational position in regards to freedom for the atheist determinism? Which is literally in itself the OPPOSITE of freedom? Interested to hear your thoughts

[@brooklynloutheskeptic]

@@samuelzapata4151 An Atheist can have all different philosophies they may or may not agree with. My thinking does not align with determinism in any rigid way, although I do think there is some aspects of life that are determined from things in the past. There are things we cannot control. I do not think about determinism at all, in fact this is the first time even chatting about it. My emphasis is on mental wellbeing and having a stable rational mind as best I can, given my personal situations. I used to be Christian and used to give up control of my life to an ideology and a God that I thought ruled over the whole world. I wanted to make decisions based on what I thought a God wanted me to do. Now as an atheist, I trust my own thoughts and am free to explore different ideas and feel I have much more control over my own life and brain. No demons or angels or other invisible undetectable entities trying to jump into my mind. I am not frightened by anything anymore and I really mean anything. I focus on things I do have some control over and do not wonder what a God may or may not be doing, so my mind is clearer. I trust my thought processes more. No guilt or shame. I feel more grounded to reality. I feel whole. My life is better. I treat other people better because I see them as human beings rather than through the lens of a God BELIEF.

[@ibrahimelmasry-z3k]

@@Eman-wj8gq عربي؟

[@Eman-wj8gq]

@@ibrahimelmasry-z3k fnnsjsdjcbe

[@jisvischreuder8340]

Cliff is a master of circular reasoning. "It is so because the bible says so....". No evidence, no logical reasoning. Start with the facts.

[@SammichLS]

Can you point out what part of the discussion youre referring to? Cliff did bring up the argument on the scriptures reliability, but they never went to far with it because they were trying to cover a lot of topics in a short amount of time

[@BornofFire117]

You must be deaf. Matt has not presented any evidence supporting his ‘disbelief’.

[@SammichLS]

@@BornofFire117 Matt doesnt need to prove Cliffs beliefs false, they are his claims to prove true. If Matt wants to offer a different claim, he has to prove that. The discussion in general was based more of logical deductions from either sides general beliefs rather than full on debating the evidences and facts.

[@klopau3113]

When did Cliff ever claim that anything is because it is? Cliff also never said anything about anything being true because the Bible says so. You are as intellectually dishonest as Matt. Seek Jesus. Shalom 🙏✝️❤️

[@klopau3113]

​@SammichLS That is literally what @BornofFire117 was addressing. Matt never gave any evidence to support his beliefs or "unbeliefs". Cliff gave clear evidence for his beliefs. Seek Jesus. Shalom 🙏✝️❤️

[@danielwarton5343]

Matt’s point is that we have meaning if someone else loves us. So if someone isn’t lovable they have no meaning?

[@A_Stereotypical_Heretic]

No value, meaning and value are different things.

[@danielwarton5343]

@ does my point still stand if you replace meaning for value?

[@A_Stereotypical_Heretic]

@@danielwarton5343 not sure if you're point remains valid, maybe it does, but it does change the significance.

[@danielwarton5343]

@@A_Stereotypical_Heretic you’re right. I should have said value and not meaning, Matt did say meaning. In the sense that we have value as a person isn’t dependent on wether we’re loved or not. Either value is intrinsic or it is assigned. If someone isn’t lovable then do they have less value than someone who is? a what makes someone lovable? Many people loved and admired Charles Manson. I’m not saying that he had less value than Elvis, a well loved contemporary. Either they were valuable as people in their intrinsic value or they weren’t

[@A_Stereotypical_Heretic]

@@danielwarton5343 honestly, I don't know what makes a person valuable. Id like to say positive contribution to their surroundings, but value is so subjective who knows? 🤷 Meaning is definitely something a person grants to themselves, and it should be that no one can give nor take that away from them. It's unfortunate we live in a time when so many depend on others to feel meaningful.

[@diegom8]

The majority of his friends (he said it) work for Wall Street, that isn’t the majority of people. We live for many reasons not one. I live for life - THAT is true and the evidence is that you and I are conscious to think that. The purpose of life is life - period.

[@zyzzyx459]

Physical evidence to me would be stuff like the ground I'm standing on and the intricacy of How It's All atoms and molecules down to the grains of sand as well as the water in the sea or the water we drink and how all the medicine that we've ever needed to survive Humanity up until this very Point has either been discovered or yet to be discovered but it's already here. The immense intricacy of our DNA, the origin story of how I literally breathe, the origin of how gravity is here and how it was created, how all of our feelings as human beings are the same emotions just in different ways due to us being individuals. In my humble opinion my God has made himself known blatantly to my face even if I can't see him physically I think about Thomas and how Jesus told him blessed are the ones who haven't seen and still believe. Stuff like how it describes a covenant of a book that was written over 2000 years ago that describes a rainbow in the sky that we see to this very day. How we have discovered things that have been true that have been from a book that was written that long ago. Regardless if it's been handed down as a game of telephone, it is literally the best and most accurate game of telephone that's ever been recorded. How can we understand Heavenly things if we already don't understand the Earthly things? How we dream, the smells on the planet, how everything has life, literally. He is my Lord and Savior and if anyone has any questions I would love to answer as best as I could. But if you also ask questions that I cannot answer nor can you there shouldn't be blame that I believe that it becomes Divine knowledge. While we can explain what things are that does not mean that we have the origin of how things can be made. If you don't understand that then break it down into the very most minute thing that you can think of and it just comes back to atoms and molecules and how bacteria works and basically the most basic form of quantum mechanics. While we understand little about quantum mechanics that does not mean we understand the origin stories of how every single thing that we have on this planet got here. I, for myself, believe that was my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ that created all of the entire universe and everything within it.

[@SwoozPlaysMC]

Perfectly said brother

[@josephelliott4117]

@@SwoozPlaysMC Or sister?

[@zyzzyx459]

@SwoozPlaysMC definitely, brother 😆

[@JinnyFallon]

There’s a fallacy there though, or at least you’re missing the point. Evidence that there is a ground and trees and atoms supports the idea that there are grounds, trees, and atoms. You can’t infer further to say that there must have been a being that created all of this. We don’t know if there was a being that created all of this. But if you start from the conclusion that a being created all of this, you will find mountains and mountains of “evidence” that actually don’t mean anything.

[@jccreations13]

I really liked what Matt Dillahunty had to say, and how he said it. Great explanations for the most part, with sound reasoning!

[@FollowerOfChrist365]

You mean deceived thinking

[@highroller-jq3ix]

@@FollowerOfChrist365 You have been deceived through absence of thinking.

[@Azul901]

Why should we care what you think? You're nothing, but fertilizer 😂

[@wicked1rish]

too bad hes wrong

[@highroller-jq3ix]

@@FollowerOfChrist365 Well, actual thinking as opposed to gullible, gawd-damaged delusions.

[@SalvadorOchoa-p9k]

All you guys have to do now, is prove that your God exists.

[@mpcrelaxmusic]

All you have to do is accept the proof when given. Oh but you would t do that even if proof were given it’s a choice.

[@drivebysnapshots]

All you have to do is realize everything exploding out of nothing is ridiculous.

[@SalvadorOchoa-p9k]

@@drivebysnapshots When did I make that claim?

[@SalvadorOchoa-p9k]

@@mpcrelaxmusic You never gave any proof at all.

[@SalvadorOchoa-p9k]

Well that was easy.

[@FrankWaites]

If mosquitos only came into being after the fall... who created mosquitos? And why? Do mosquitos have a redemption plan? And if not, what is their purpose?

[@cittoj_xyz]

Matt is the only one making solid points. Cliff is just preaching, which most christains will just eat up.

[@strawhatobi4845]

No he isn't, he stated there is no free will and claimed there is only absolute morality when he stated that humans "give" morality to others. I'd rather watch other atheist then this guy because Matt is all about what ifs and maybe this and that. Never a good argument. Cliff is respectful not much of a debetar which I agree but that doesnt make his claims wrong.

[@johnnybgood7442]

@@strawhatobi4845 you need to look up his definition of absolute morality, because I guarantee it’s not the same thing that you’re thinking of. Matt could’ve done a better job at explaining his definition, but he has said many times that his definition is esoteric.

[@Liliana-of7ji]

@@strawhatobi4845I agree. This atheist is just stumbling around in the dark and it is so obvious.

[@jduke367duke8]

He isn’t preaching at all. Have you ever been to church and listened to a preacher? Most of Matt’s point were just opinion and had no weight or substance to them. His argument about his mom can’t go to heaven because if he went to hell how could she be happy in heaven knowing her son went to hell. That argument is a fallacy. You see that happen all the time. No one wants to lose a loved one. No one wants to see their mom or dad die, yet many people say they are happy they have finally passed away because they are no longer suffering with cancer. Does that mean that they aren’t the same person because they are happy that their mom/dad has passed away? To say that there obviously can’t be a heaven because Christians believe there is no more sorrow in heaven is just ridiculous. How many times have you been extremely angry or agitated, but someone or something comes along and soothes you and you no longer have those negative feelings? Heaven could be much the same way, no sorrow their because we are being soothed by the presence of God, or we no longer have to live in a fallen world. There are many explanations of the lack of sorrow in heaven. The one he made just falls flat.

[@johnnybgood7442]

@ you clearly don’t know what a fallacy is. If I’m wrong, please name the exact fallacy that he’s committing there. Secondly, his point makes complete sense. YOUR point doesn’t make any sense. Some people are “happy” that their parents pass because they believe that their loved one is NOT suffering anymore. Would they feel the same way if they knew their parents were suffering ETERNALLY??? I think not. Lastly, Cliffe never demonstrated even one time (nor has anyone in history) that heaven is even a real place. Until you do that, you can’t possibly tell me that things like “sorrow” don’t exist. So, please point out the specific fallacy he committed and then how you know heaven is real.

[@ManImTheVoid]

Here is a quick answer: No one knows of there is an afterlife, nothing to prove or disprove an afterlife. All we can agree that is it irrelevant arguing about it's existence or non existence. Just live your life

[@cellypish]

exactly. there is no concrete evidence to prove the existence of an afterlife all those stories and videos where people claim to have seen "heaven" or "hell" are almost certainly fabrications or exaggerated accounts meant to garner attention or comfort others

[@sofiabravo1994]

Depressing no thanks

[@timkutz7042]

“I mean come on” lol is “just believe me bro” energy

[@hamb0ne]

i think it means “how have we fallen into this much denial” but go off

[@MannyBaut06]

Nope big bang can’t be proven

[@neazs5045]

Idk about that champ

[@haggismcbaggis9485]

Isn't money reliable and true? I am not sure what Cliff's point is.

[@mufasa1979]

I'm a God believer, but the atheist won.

[@alicehodges9964]

I'm An Atheist

[@davidwatkins2171]

God GAVE mankind the moral laws/objective laws. God is the Judge/Jury/executioner......FACTS!! The 10 commandments are THE timeless and TRUE laws used by the VAST majority of CIVILIZED societies!! The ten commandments are carved into the Supreme court of the US building!! Look around you........the evidence of God is everywhere. How did NOTHING create everything?????? Please think about this..........May God Bless You.........

[@holdenwillis6281]

Well there is a difference in you knowing or believing God and God knowing you. To say you are a God believer and then say that...

[@alicehodges9964]

@@holdenwillis6281 I Don't Believe In God I just Hate Thr Young Earth Creationists Nonsense Ok? THE Planets Were Created in Millions of Years Not 6 Days

[@alicehodges9964]

@@holdenwillis6281 I Hate The 6 Day Creation Nonsense

[@AgroAaronFpv]

Christian's anti-slave argument doesn't hold any water. Paul had mercy on one guy he never once said free the slaves. Jesus didn't say Free the slaves either. Meanwhile Leviticus makes it very clear that you could buy and own human beings for life, as long as they weren't Hebrew.

[@Eman-wj8gq]

Yea, it really doesn't. I work with a guy who is a preacher and I will qoute Christ, in an attempt for a better peaceful world and he'll qoite Paul. Paul is just writing from inspiration he isn't the word of god.

[@domcruise274]

Every theologian in history who has studied the Bible disagrees but good thing you came here to prove them all wrong! Just by glancing over some verses too that’s impressive

[@JesusIsKing_OohMoises]

People that actually believe the bible dosent hold argument for anti slavery is amazing. Just show you haven’t even studied such views and still came into the internet throw your opinion, which is fine. The internet wouldn’t be such a bad influence if people actually looked up things before saying, which could make a blank minded person pick that up, and also starting to throw arguments with no base what so.

[@AgroAaronFpv]

@@JesusIsKing_OohMoises I studied the Bible for over 20 years. Try again dude.

[@chatzigeorgiougeorge885]

If the Bible was so clear about anti-slavery, why did it took the Christian world more than 1400 years to abolish it? And the argument of Wilberforce is weak, the slave owners were also Christians and they justified their policy on the Bible too. In the British Parliament everyone was Christian and it took many years for Wilberforce to pass his law. The Aglican church released a statement on 2020 admitting that some Christians at that time were against the abolition of slavery (which was a diplomatic way to say that the majority was against).

[@IBelieve777-m1u]

Let’s pray for him

[@DividerLP]

Not really gonna change anything. He already addressed that even if your god is somehow real, he disagrees with his morals.

[@IBelieve777-m1u]

@ God Bless You I will pray for you also

[@DividerLP]

@IBelieve777-m1u No thank you.

[@IBelieve777-m1u]

@ I will still pray

[@DividerLP]

@IBelieve777-m1u Okay, I don’t respect your religion and the ideology you follow, but you are human like me. Do what makes you happy.

[@mikeygarcia8271]

Even the most ardent atheists had near death experience that made them change their mind about God and the after life. You see-- if you were right that there is no God, then we both have nothing to lose..but if we were right that God exist, then we have a lot to gain and you have got a lot to lose--your one and only soul. So why would you risk your soul, your eternal life for something you are not sure about? As it is written: "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment." Hebrews 9:27

[@Maksie0]

Pascal's Wager again? Really dude?

[@mikeygarcia8271]

@@Maksie0Hell awaits. Humility is what will lift the veil off your eyes, sparing your soul from eternal damnation in hell.Jesus is the only path to life, my friend.Seek God and you will find Him.

[@Maksie0]

@@mikeygarcia8271 You're talking a bunch of complete nonsense.

[@mikeygarcia8271]

@Maksie0 Until you see the spirit realm like I did..which you will witness by the way. It's just a matter of time.I hope you're no longer an atheist before that day comes.

[@mikeygarcia8271]

@@Maksie0 One day, you yourself will witness what other former atheists discovered that made them believe in God and the afterlife.I hope it will not be too late for you..because time is ticking away...

[@Mr_Meyers]

Why cant people just stop arguing and just learn to love eachother. Its a simple solution because it appeals to both religeous views.

[@weridaccount]

They’re not even arguing, both are respectful and both are learning each other views. That’s why it’s called a debate, they were letting each other talk, it’s rare for debates like this, most are disrespectful.

[@flux5836]

I love Matt. I totally get what he's trying to convey everytime.

[@Eman-wj8gq]

Guy makes some amazing points. I saw another debate with him and cliffe and boy does he really go at him.

[@domcruise274]

@@Eman-wj8gqyou may be bias for one party. Similar to politics

[@InTheMannerOfLove]

yet it does require faith to believe that God does not exist. An agnostic is not an atheist.

[@intergalacticdreamer]

You're misrepresenting the definition of atheism. Theism is a belief in a god or gods. Atheism is the lack of belief in a god or gods. Agnosticism is that you're not convinced of either. An honest atheist will say they're agnostic and atheist because just like no one prove the existence of God, it is also impossible to prove a god does not exist. How do you prove nothing if there is nothing? Hope that helps.

[@unleavened7]

@@intergalacticdreamer Atheism translates to ‘no god or gods’, and thus denotes a belief that there is/are no god/gods. Theism is a believe in a god or gods. One who simply does not believe one way or the other is defined by a different term other than atheism. An agnostic acknowledges that they do not know one way or the other. I do reckon that you are misunderstanding, and thereby misrepresenting, the definition of an atheist. How does one prove there is nothing is there is nothing? By proving that there is nothing, of course. I agree that it is impossible to prove that God does not exist, because he does. Yet, if you have some proof to offer that there is no god or gods, i am ready and willing to consider any alleged evidence. Hope that helps.

[@vladtheemailer3223]

No, not at all.

[@jopadulla7482]

My philosophy professor once said.. “no matter reflects upon itself.”

[@elitezenkai9435]

This is such a beautiful statement. I'm stealing this.

[@tzenophile]

this just demonstrates that philosophy professors are not smarter than anyone else

[@jopadulla7482]

@@tzenophile that's a good point. Whoever this person who is smarter than anyone else, I'd be stoked to meet them..

[@highroller-jq3ix]

And you thought that was profound? Such an obvious, tautological deepity? Really?

[@jopadulla7482]

@@highroller-jq3ix yup. My guilty pleasure. I do find profound things in the mundane. I find joy in my own naïveté

[@ivanesparza9473]

- “We’re not special, this planet is not special Also -“There are no aliens, all of the testimonies in history are all false” I’m so glad Atheists are the smartest people 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂Xd

[@Samuel-lg2tz]

Why does Cliffe go on saying I can assure you, I can promise you on and on? We don't need your assurance. Just give evidence Cliffe.

[@justinalvarado1788]

Are u deaf? He said go seek for yourself bruh. How can u trust what he says? By going and seeing for yourself🤯🤯🤯🤯 wow

[@antonioonthego7300]

Seek for yourself

[@Samuel-lg2tz]

@@justinalvarado1788 Seek what, how and where? Inside your head?

[@Hedonite]

​@@Samuel-lg2tzjust live your life and ignore em dude. You can't reason with unreasonable people

[@domcruise274]

@@Samuel-lg2tzhe says read the gospels as historical narrative and decide if Jesus is reliable or not

[@j.whisper2379]

Just because you don't like or fear the truth, doesn't mean it's not true.

[@mindofmayhem.]

God is bigger then the worlds religions. God isn't a book. There is nothing but God.

[@VoidEmergentFox]

God is a man made concept part of religions. There are thousands of God's made up. What does "there is nothing but god" even mean? Are you saying everything is god?

[@mindofmayhem.]

@@VoidEmergentFox Yes, that which forces everything to exist and exchange energy until reaching equilibrium.

[@VoidEmergentFox]

@@mindofmayhem. Then you've just reduced god to nothing. Congratulations. I thought I would have to argue against some weird outside and space and time nonsense but god just being everything makes it easy. Why even call it god? It's like when people say the universe is god....no, the universe is the universe. We already have a word that describes the thing we live in, it's called the universe. You're just adding on this extra, pointless word. You're also assuming everything was forced to exist. How do you know it didn't just always exist.and didn't need created?

[@mindofmayhem.]

@@VoidEmergentFox The Universe is forced to exist and exchange energy until it reaches equilibrium too. I don't care the name it's given. I don't care if it's a ball of light or a bag of feces floating in a plastic bag. I'm addressing the very first "problems" that lead to there being something else involved.... The one where people think it's created to begin with. I never said reality was created. I'm saying there is no creation. Only God.

[@awoj51]

There is everything but god.

[@CarlMatos-rx3wz]

I serve God the creator, the author an I serve our lord an savior yeshua ❤

[@yourguard4]

But why?

[@alicehodges9964]

​@@yourguard4I Don't I Have Freedom

[@alicehodges9964]

Well I Don't I Serve Customers in A Cafa Not God

[@alicehodges9964]

​@@yourguard4I Don't Because I Have Freedom Not To Serve God

[@alicehodges9964]

​@@yourguard4I Don't Serve God

[@FrankieIpp]

You know Cliffe isn't as humble as he should he since his view on what happens after death is either A or B. No possiblity of anything beside A or B, he's close minded and its so obvious.

[@medicisounds1384]

Ok then you come with other possibilities of after death and give use the evidence of how you came to that conclusion 😂 "After death you turn into a star" Ok well where is the evidence of C?

[@hewad378]

​@@medicisounds1384You missed the point. It's okay to not know what happens after death. Why can't we just say that we don't know what happens after death because we dont have any evidence? Cliff lays out his belief of what happens after death but isn'topen to any other ideas. Atleast this is what I interpreted the original comment as.

[@medicisounds1384]

@ He literally says constantly that he doesn't know. No one knows. But he claims that the evidence according to Jesus (God) is that there is an afterlife. He says constantly he is open to other possibilities, but the evidence is never quite superior to the evidence of afterlife and eternal life. Just going around saying idk and idc what happens is a scary way to live. Because what if there is an afterlife wouldn't you want eternal life? I daydream everyday of living for eternity. Immortality! Would be amazing. So if there's a chance at that i am going to look for that.

[@botolinguini1757]

You should watch more of his videos. You wouldnt have typed this if you did.

[@zachstremmel7717]

It’s called being convinced of something. And being convinced of something is okay. He’s not closed minded, he’s sticking to what he’s seen to be true. And what he believes. You can’t believe in God AND believe that nothing happens if you die. You got to pick something.

[@andrewschafer8986]

Best debate in seen in a while. 👍👍

[@Bible_Alive]

Posting another debate video between Matt and Cliffe tmr 🙌

[@Bungaloo]

Do you see how Cliffe is in preacher mode whilst Matt is explaining his position. It is important with preachers that they put on a performance so that the audience is emotionally stirred up. If they were to explain without the theatricals people might realise how absurd they really are.

[@jacobmason4225]

cliffe is speaking in front of an audience like he knows how… who are you to say he is preaching when he is clearly in a debate? what theatricals are you insinuating??

[@jamesskinner5625]

You are the prime example of "emotions rather than logical thinking"

[@jamesskinner5625]

​@jacobmason4225 don't listen to this clown, either hes a troll or a bot

[@juann-nada]

Well brotha all a Christian can do is present the gospel of salvation out of love and consideration for the hearer, none of us have authority or power to convince a non believer. That power and decision is left to God alone. You can criticize to your fill. God is just making sure ALL folks have heard the message before judgement day. God bless

[@jacobmason4225]

@@juann-nada amen brother, spoken like a true believer ❤️

[@plipplopblop1679]

Someone get Cliffe to debate Alex O'Connor!!! I love them both and think it would be a very productive conversation

[@DividerLP]

There was a debate? He was just preaching.

[@SR-ry6hs]

Great more appeal to emotion. Most preachers love that one. Play the emotional music, start chanting, FEEL the god inside you. Awesome, more cult behavior. Works on the indoctrinated and those who do not use critical thinking.

[@Eman-wj8gq]

They really do huh play some soft music in the back ground to influence one. Lol

[@Seeker7891]

Even if there is a god, or a spiritual world with spiritual beings, that does not necessitate that humans have a life after death. Did humans have a life before birth?

[@biggentallen]

Im surprised matt would waste his time on cliffe. Cliffe does not use or have the snallest inkling of logic in regards to his world view. I doubt he understands what logic is. He clearly demonstrates he struggles with understanding, at the very least.

[@iwilloffendsimps]

You will die one day and realize you’re a fool

[@rejinc]

One person was preaching the other speaking logic

[@theomargames6330]

Tell me how believing in objective morality is logical? Under the premise that there is no god

[@ReadingRambo152]

@@theomargames6330 It's logical because it's beneficial to the survival of the species. If you care about others and they care about you it's beneficial for everyone.

[@drrickmarshall1191]

​@@theomargames6330You'd have to establish that objective morality exists.

[@banardadams8776]

@@ReadingRambo152why is the survival of species beneficial though? If we’re all going to turn to dirt what does survival have to do with anything and how does caring even affect survival? You can survive and not be cared for. what exactly does it mean to be caring?

[@ReadingRambo152]

@@banardadams8776 Well your first question is a bit open ended. On a universal scale the survival of any given species isn't beneficial or important. The earth could be wiped out tomorrow and the universe wouldn't notice or care. That being said, the survival of a species by definition is beneficial to that species. And strictly based off of observation it seems like all animals prefer to live rather than die. You might ask why animals want to live, and the only answer I can give to that is that all animals alive today descended from animals that want to live. I know you might not find that answer to be satisfactory, but admittedly I don't really know if there is a satisfactory answers to that question. To answer your second question, why does survival matter if we're all going to turn to dirt? It doesn't. Survival also doesn't matter if there's an after life. After you die, survival ceases to be an issue. And to answer your last question; adult humans may be able to survive if they're not cared for. But children are far less likely to survive, and toddlers and infants certainly won't. Imagine if mothers weren't genetically predisposed to care for their babies, and immediately after birth they just abandoned them; their babies would die and they wouldn't pass down their genes to future generations. So it makes sense that we are genetically predisposed to care for our young because those genes are more likely to get passed down. In short, caring is something that we are genetically predisposed to because it helps us live longer. It helps us survive, and regardless of what happens to us after we die, all animals want to live.

[@elicaraballo8990]

Matt made more sense than Cliff.. but nice try🤷🏽‍♂️

[@peregrine1981]

Ultimately, it's a matter of locus of authority. Does man, either collectively or individually, determine truth, or is universal, objective truth able to be communicated to man from outside man's epistemological constraints?

[@rickknoedler6332]

1) You can't begin to accept religion/faith until you understand that nothing didn't create something. Once you understand that a designer created your very complex body, you will embrace the love that your creator has for you. 2) Only one religion can be true or all are false because they all contradict each other. (The law of non-contradiction) Default to these two truths often as you search for your creator. My advice is to read about the Gospel. There is no other story so beautiful given to mankind. I'll respect any choice you make but I will also pray that you look into this matter. God Bless!!

[@mexdrago3009]

So be a Muslim.

[@dvd1966]

Everyone knows there’s a God it’s fear and pride that won’t let them admit to it.

[@Simon-nv5zj]

I don't believe something came from nothing. I dont know the answer, which is the only intellectualy honest position to take.

[@ignaciomendez5669]

@@Simon-nv5zjso how do you denounce god if you really don’t know. Atheists claim to be smart but it’s 50-50 this was made by god or by coincidence. Most of the time there is a complex creation there is always a sentient being behind the creation . So evidence points that life was made by a higher power the complexity behind life itself is too much of coincidence to be “random”

[@Simon-nv5zj]

@ignaciomendez5669 i don't denounce god. I don't believe in your claim that a God exists. I would never say gods don't exist because you can't prove a negative. Also how do you know if it 50/50? How did you discount universe creating pixies?

[@noelpinto100]

Pray for Matt may God bring repentance and be get saved.

[@ReadingRambo152]

He needs saving like Christians need Vishnu, and I'm guessing you're not worried about your soul being stuck in a cycle of samsara right? The only people that need to worry about going to hell are the people that believe in it.

[@Yahshuaismyeverything]

Too late now

[@Yahshuaismyeverything]

He literally blashpeming the holy ghost there's no repetence of that

[@krazicjaxxon880]

The more cliffe speaks the less impress i get...hes explain absolutely nothing

[@Abridgelion]

Recently, I went through an experience when exploring the logical implications of death without life afterwards. It was a nihilism that I felt to my core. Terrified me greatly. I looked online to see how other people manage it, a few felt as I do: absolute terror. You're not "laid to rest." You do no resting. There is no "you" to rest. When you delete a character profile from a video game, are they at rest? Humans and pixels are different things, don't get them confused. I'm saying that functionally, the end result is identical. There is nothing - no one - there "to rest." It's not even accurate to say "You cease to exist." No. "There is no you to cease to exist." The unborn have the advantage of never having tasted life in the first place. Therefore, the comparison of experiences before and after life is improper, unrealistic, wrong, inaccurate, something like that. This is where the antinatalist camp gets its members. I, for one, don't want to suddenly stop thinking. I don't want to cease to exist, or rather, I don't want there to be no me to cease to exist. I don't want to stop experiencing life, thought, consciousness. The evangelical's cliche claim of "Where will you spend eternity?" sounds really dumb. It stopped sounding dumb after I had this experience. After we die, there is eternity. And eternity without my sense of being, identity, thoughts, consciousness, that plain terrifies me. I choose to believe in an afterlife, and "to cope with this terror of inbound oblivion" is the primary reason.

[@abilrai2544]

That's deep. But these pleasure loving and burnt - tongue people don't use their mind to such a level. I am glad you sensed that, I did too

[@docdisco42]

This is Buddhism 101

[@henrytate857]

@@abilrai2544nope. We are just emotionally mature enough to cope with the idea that one day, we will cease to exist, think, and experience anything. There’s nothing wrong with that. Just like there’s nothing inherently right or wrong with your beliefs.

[@Abridgelion]

@@henrytate857 Nuts. I'll never have the emotional maturity you do.

[@Niguido8]

I had to sit through so much garbage to wait for Cliffe to speak.

[@Niguido8]

This guy is so smug.

[@themartialartsapproach8786]

Honest question. Are theists capable of honestly representing atheism? Theist debaters and commenters CONSTANTLY take the basic concepts and twist them so they can dismiss them, apparently.

[@AOH2008]

Like who and how specifically?

[@themartialartsapproach8786]

@@AOH2008 honest question. Have you ever listened to any atheist call-in show or watched any debate between an atheist and a theist? Pick your poison. I don't think I've ever heard a theist that engaged honeatly. Commenters on the theist side of debates too. I think you'd be hard pressed to find theist who engage honestly with atheists. If you don't see it, maybe brush up on some elements of logic, and logical fallacies.

[@AOH2008]

@@themartialartsapproach8786 That's a fallacy of composition, and a non sequitur. First, it does not follow that theists engage dishonestly because they're theists. Second, your experience is limited by human limitations. You can't honestly say that a subset of the theist population represents all theists, everywhere, especially when we're all different in so many ways. I also have to wonder why I have to listen to any atheist call-in show. There's always one more thing you can say I should consider, regardless of the validity of my position, just like I could say there's always one more book, video, call-in show, etc., that you haven't considered. The arguments are the same, and have been refuted repeatedly over at least the past 2,000 years. Can you honestly say that you have a brand new argument that has never been encountered before, which can't be refuted? Of course, I have hope that you will be an honest interlocutor about this whole discussion...

[@themartialartsapproach8786]

@AOH2008 I didn't say theists don't engage honestly BECAUSE they're theists. It's that, after watching countless hours of debates and listening to hundreds of hours of call in shows, reading theist comments on their channels, talking with theists, and growing up in the church, I can't think of a single time one engaged honestly. Has it happened? Of course. Is it rare? It certainly seems to be. So your composition fallacy accusation is also false. And as a starter, a classic example of misrepresentation is, "you atheists think that something came from nothing." Or there's "I know you're mad at god, but that's no reason to lead others astray," or, "you guys can't have morality if it doesn't come from a higher power," or "you guys just wanna be able to do whatever you want and sin as much as you want. That's why you rebel against god." Maybe you don't want to listen to an atheist call-in show, but just pick your favorite theist channel talking about atheists and start checking my list.

[@AOH2008]

@themartialartsapproach8786 one thing I learned about communication is that the meaning of communication is the response you get. What about your communication would have given me that impression?

[@MarkusHeimy]

Matt is using sales tactics. Asking a bunch of agreeable questions to get to a desired response.

[@generyan2332]

We live because we live Cliffe. Reasons for our survival and our happiness is something else. Reasoning with your brain to eat and hydrate sustains one's existence. People have reasons for many things that stimulate and benefit the lives that they live. If the reason for you Cliffe, is the need for a God that gave you your life comforts you, then so be it. That doesn't make your God belief true. Hopefully you're just adding a reason among other reasons to live. It seems that your God belief is your ultimate belief to live, and you contaminated your son with that mentality, which can possibly inhibit critical thinking and rationality. Both of which are beneficial to the truth and decision making for survival.

[@nahkalahdeyoung6889]

This man needs prayer. I feel sorry for hum. But hey u never know, GOD could give him a change of heart. GOD please BLESS him and reveal ykutself to him please

[@WizardImp]

So why hasn't it?

[@Andrew-t3q7m]

No he doesn´t need it. You only THINK he does. That´s exactly the same like me saing: You need Satan. I feel sorry for you. You never know, Satan could give you a change of heart and make you realize that he's real and not that fake God. Satan, please BLESS Nahkalah and reval yourself to her please!

[@mike8386]

If you believe your god to be omnicient, your prayer is useless...

[@drsiege3434]

Not going to happen. If he existed, he would have revealed himself to those he claims to love - sinners.

[@TalentNduvheni]

Which god?

[@Ian-gj3xt]

The level of ignorance in the comments section blows my mind, then I remember Ive been in the position of holding on so tightly to a fantasy despite the strong feeling in my gut that I was wrong

[@pieterhaegeman3538]

Can you elaborate?

[@RBoas]

I should probably watch this, but Matt’s arguments are always the same. I might fast forward to Cliffs part.

[@gtbrannog95]

Cringe

[@drsiege3434]

Not very open minded of you

[@RBoas]

@@drsiege3434 his arguments are so played. Like most atheists it’s a strong appeal to emotions with some bad hermeneutics.

[@drsiege3434]

@@RBoas well, I think it's usually Theists that give the same answers from the same playbook. Mostly in the line of - "if we can't explain something, then it must be God". This removes the need for deep thought into alternative possible explanations.

[@JinnyFallon]

@@RBoas I get the exact opposite impression. Matt’s position/argument never uses emotional appeal. It’s always about evidence and sound epistemology.

[@Ajw214]

4:04 God never “sanctioned” slavery or genocide in the way that he is suggesting…where’d he get that from?

[@kevinumber7]

There is no evidence for religion period. My father is a pastor and i see guys like this enndocrined.

[@baronwaggoner3702]

There’s plenty you’re just not looking

[@DividerLP]

@@baronwaggoner3702 I’ve been looking my whole life. I’m begging to see actual proof. Christian’s only tell me hypotheticals, philosophy, or tell me about their experience they can’t explain that I can easily explain.

[@kb41]

How about you link the full debate video instead of blatantly stealing it from the original channel. Its from Science Debate btw.

[@12darkside12]

The only thing that makes sense, is that if God does in fact exist, he no longer cares about us. It’s the only way to explain the bad things that are allowed to happen. He either doesn’t exist, or He does, just just doesn’t care.

[@nanireyess]

God does care about us so much that he gives us free will to chose how we live our own lives He loves us unconditionally but isn’t going to force us to love him back we have to chose to live a faithful life loving him people are sinful and make this world sinful but if we put our trust in God at the end of it we will have enteral life with him peacefully

[@MaxFeng-c2x]

@@nanireyess but.... according to bible if we don't do what he want we will end up in hell screaming in pain forever.... how's that unconditionally love? also according to bible, if a dude is gay we rock him to death, but apparently no one does that anymore. So does that mean that all Christians who see homosexuality and do not throw rock at him will go to hell?(since they didn't follow what god said)

[@nanireyess]

@@MaxFeng-c2x i hear u and the bible is something that may be confusing for us at first and we won’t fully understand Gods will until we put our trust and faith in Him just because you are gay doesn’t mean God doesn’t unconditionally love you and he doesn’t WANT any of us to end up in hell he wants us to be with Him in heaven but God says to trust his word and follow his commands and we will have eternal life and peaceful doing it’s about faith at the end of the day if u trust fully and have faith in his path and understanding u will see eternal peace

[@o.y.d6681]

The amount of arrogance needed to say someone could enjoy HEAVEN without you being there is astronomical 😂😂 my guy really think he's his mother's life and joy lol that's a good mama but please believe baby boy if it's you or Jesus, your mom is picking Jesus 10 out of 10 times🤷🏽‍♂️🙏🏽

[@robertdewhurst9031]

You left out the part of him suffering in hell for eternity. How could anyone have complete bliss when there loved one is suffering for eternity

[@jerrebrasfield4231]

​@@robertdewhurst9031by leaving your history behind when you move on. No one said that the end of the Bible is the end of the story. Eternity is a long time and there will be alot to do. One more thing so many forget, hell gets destroyed when the war is over.

[@jamesboone3678]

Hey, yes, I definitely will because you made your choice, and I made mine.

[@o.y.d6681]

@robertdewhurst9031 same way a child can enjoy their dessert while their sibling gets punished. You know what you did and had the option to meet me up here, AND I told you multiple times what you needed to do but instead you wanted to do your own thing, so now you get to for eternity 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@marlon8597]

​@@robertdewhurst9031when you are a part of Gods plan, thats all that matters. The creator of the universe, supercedes everything. God made it very clear in the bible, if you choose to live in your sins and not repent or seperate yourself from God. You put yourself in hell, and there is no one to blame but yourself. Also the bible even mentions how to avoid all that, so fairness should not be a conflict if everyone has access to a bible.

[@Bashento]

You start the video very good thank you very much for your work!

[@datsko6339]

Matt came to debate, Cliffe came to preach

[@geoffharris1661]

Cliff as well as being the most unconvincing apologist of all, is also the most annoying. And it seems he has managed to indoctrinate his so as well, who is also a pastor. He failed miserably in this debate, and should have known better than debate Dillahunty, he had no chance.

[@zachstremmel7717]

No chance? This was a debate. Not a competition. No chance to what? Win? There was never a win or lose. It’s to exchange ideas. Cliffe wasn’t trying to convince him of anything. He was answering the questions in response to Matt. He was very respectful. If you were annoyed, then you likely arnt being open minded.

[@UltimateKyuubiFox]

@@zachstremmel7717 A debate is, in fact, about winning. That’s why it’s not a discussion.

[@NewyorkRicanSoulPodcast]

The design of the cosmos and the designs of our bodies screams that there is a designer. Not happenstance. I pray for the unbelievers. 🙏

[@shookreeseeree4]

If there is a designer God..then he is a very bad designer..many babies borned have illnesses, deformed lips..hole in the hearts..etc..many young children have poor eyesight etc..

[@jordanbruce3721]

cant win an arguement? No problem, just edit it out! id recommend watching the full 2hr version if you want to hear the full arguments. Or just watch this and keep existing in a safe little bubble.

[@Jimwade-qi6py]

Matt destroys cliff and cliff has God on his side,and still can't win.... it's so funny

[@shore-cityfilms]

Exactly how did he destroy him?

[@RCR740]

Absolute clown

[@Jimwade-qi6py]

@@shore-cityfilms if there was a God in the first place,y would cliff even show up..... it's all about the money..... God would never aloud atheist better christian..... y because there is no God......cliff can never win

[@shore-cityfilms]

@@Jimwade-qi6py that doesn’t make any sense. What is God suppose to come down from heaven and strike Matt down with lightning?

[@FollowJesus777-KING]

​​@@Jimwade-qi6pythats under assumptions about God. Doesnt make any sense to say "God doesnt exist because he hasnt revealed himself in xyz manner" cliffee could have totally done this just solely for money(which i completely disagree with). Doesnt really change whether or not God exists

[@Jesuschristiskingfromexmuslim]

Cliff respect ✊

[@kaleodos]

If Jesus ressurected What he did afterwards? He just retired? Where did he died his second death? Did he flew away?

[@ianyoung6706]

1:34 “ it’s a strawman to claim that I think slavery is bad just because I say so” - Proceeds to say people are valuable because another person says so.

[@DividerLP]

Religion: Murder is bad because god said so. Him: “Murder is bad because I value human life, and I didn’t need another person or higher power to convince me of that. I even disagree on the morality of your higher power, since he was okay with slavery and genocide in his teachings, and I am against it.” You completely missed the point he was making.

[@ianyoung6706]

@ buddy, you’re saying that as a product of modern human culture, probably western culture, and probably from a position of relative comfort, at least without real daily desperation. Cultures that believe what you “just know” have been totally infused with ideas like that by religion after thousands of years of “might makes right.” Even in western nations all one needs to do is see what happens when society begins to break down just a little bit and lots of people start justifying murder (I know a lot of people justifying a guy named Luigi who shot a CEO in the back, for example, and non of them are religious). The POINT, as you say, is that these ideas need to be religious so that they are not jettisoned at the first sign that “the chips are down.” It’s nice for you that you’re privileged and safe enough to “just know” that murder is wrong, as if you came up with that in a vacuum, but there are plenty of people in American inner cities and plenty of cultures around the world who believe that the right to kill comes with having power. C’mon man.

[@mikelombard21]

All ancient manuscripts agreeing to an infinitesimal degree is a bold claim. The gospels cannot even tell the same resurrection story and you want to to say they are in infinitesimal agreement? No chance.

[@vincentcross9148]

The proof Cliff speaks about is non existent. The gospels were written in Greek in another part of the world by people that never met Jesus 40-60 years after he died. Jesus was a Palestinian Jew who spoke Aramaic not Greek. The people who wrote the gospels used the Septuagint which was written in Greek which were a direct translation from Hebrew, the word virgin was mistranslated from the word for young girl. “The Bible was written by sand strewn women and men who thought the earth was flat and a wheel barrow would be ground breaking emergent technology” Sam Harris

[@Dean_Bradley]

The thing that stops me from being a Christian is the wizardry and magic in the Bible. It's too far-fetched for me.

[@tomdonald2495]

What the hell is cliffe talking about. He says stuff that seems to make sense but as he keeps talking it makes no sense. He just begging the question over and over

[@petrilling]

Matt is basing is responses on intellect while Cliffe is playing the emotion card.

[@henrytate857]

Religion is very heavily rooted in emotion. When a pastor tells a naive person that if they don’t worship the lord they’ll burn for all of eternity, they’re trying to evoking an emotional response of fear in order to get them to follow their beliefs. If they tried to preach using facts, they would never start talking because there are none.

[@niklaswikstrom78]

As usual, the Christian speaker is disingenuous, and speaks as though he is speaking to children. No critically thinking person thinks Cliff is making any good points whatsoever.

[@jamesmarks4361]

How do you explain centuries and centuries of people coming to the Lord and Jesus changing their lifes even up to this present time

[@vladtheemailer3223]

Ask the same question while inserting ever other religion.

[@DividerLP]

You explain it by giving a more logical rephrasing to the question. “How do you explain centuries of people believing in a cause and purpose passed down through centuries of word of mouth and writings and using what they learned to come to the conclusion and attempt to fill the gaps of to things they couldn’t understand or explain somehow had to be a result of the things they learned about because that’s what they were taught and they can’t imagine thinking any different now, even today?”

[@eeman1335]

There are no Atheists. Only deniers. How can you know this for sure? _"For since the creation of the world God's invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools."_ -Romans 1:20-22

[@zimmothyd1266]

You're assuming your position is correct. You would need to prove the bible before you can use it as evidence. Until then, it's only a baseless claim.

[@eeman1335]

@@zimmothyd1266 Nonsense. I don't need to prove 2+2=4. It's already correct whether you believe it or not. The Word of God is truth whether you believe it or not.

[@Maksie0]

"My book says you're wrong! Checkmate, atheist!" Such a classic.

[@eeman1335]

@@Maksie0 From dust you came and dust you shall return. But the judgement comes after. But then again you already know that.

[@awoj51]

@@eeman1335 Not many is true in your statement. You came from semen and egg, Your flesh will rot (or will be burned to dust, in crematory, yes this part seems true) You will be judged by your descendants and friends and enemies, nobody else.

[@Obito-917]

Sounds like cliffe needs better friends