"Atheists need to prove the Bible" : Cliffe tackles atheist in BRUTAL debate

[@Eduardude]

A commenter below said, "If you base your morals on the Bible, then you are fine with owning another human being as property. " Not really. Even if one considers Christianity a pure tissue of fantasy, one can recognize that it is no accident that it was the Christian world, and the Christian world alone, that abolished slavery. Slavery has existed on all continents. All peoples, including sub-Saharan Africans, have been slave owners and slave traders. It was the Christian world alone that abolished slavery. Why did that happen? Because even if you can pick out a sentence here or there from the Bible that appears to endorse slavery, the overall paradigm represented by the central figure in the New Testament tends toward the destruction of slavery. Here are elements of the New Testament paradigm that tend to destroy slavery over time and explain why some early Christians said "there is neither slave nor free, neither Jew nor Gentile, neither male nor female, for you are all one in Jesus Christ": 1) The Bible claims we are all made in the image of God; true or not, this belief militates in the long term against slavery. Christians have generally read that as indicating that every human being has a sacred spark and cannot rightly be treated as a mere instrument of others; 2) The central teaching of the NT is love, even of your enemies. This belief militates over the long term against slavery; love is the one thing that cannot be compelled, because it comes from the very core of a person's being. Love in the true sense is inseparable from freedom; 3) Both the OT and the NT are conceived as covenants, or contracts, with God; even an atheist can agree that such a belief tends over the long term to destroy slavery; it was that belief, for example, that helped end serfdom, because the relation between lord and serf was conceived, in imitation of the OT and NT, as a contract, not an involuntary relation. The fact that it was abused and often made compulsory doesn't change the fact that it was conceived as a contract in imitation of, or inspired by, the OT and NT, and that contractual relation made it possible for Europe to evolve beyond serfdom; 4) In the NT, Jesus is portrayed as telling the disciples that he who would be greatest among them would not lord over them but would serve them and wash their feet, as Jesus washed the disciples' feet; belief that Jesus made that statement leads Christians over the long run to destroy slavery; 5) The OT and NT conceive God not as master, but as Father. Human beings are not God's slaves, but God's children, in the Jewish and Christian conceptions. The child of God, in the long run, cannot be a slave. 6) It wasn't just Wilberforce, driven by a Christian inspiration, who was the first to mount an ideological war against slavery and eventually bring about its abolition in large parts of the world; Christians had abolished slavery centuries before in some regions. No other culture has done that. That is no accident. The core of the Christian paradigm, even if a pure tissue of fantasy, was the main driving force of the tendency to abolish slavery.

[@SeekersOfChristus]

wow , thanks a lot for the detailed explanation man !

[@nickbranagan6897]

what a load of old bollocks.

[@catalinaserbanescu1687]

The level of lack of culture with these university students is astounding!

[@neo-d8y]

I guess my main question is...What would it really take to make an atheist believe in the existence of God??? I do believe most non-believers would not accept any evidence that is put in front of them. And while they are spending their eternity in h3ll...they still will most likely not believe because in that place, God is truly absent. There are things in life that are "self evident"...and people deny these things for various reasons. I pray that all who do not believe open their minds and hearts and accept Christ...before that opportunity expires...

[@Dan-wj9bi]

It would take solid evidence. But this is the problem. What makes solid evidence? There is a field of study dedicated to this called epistemology. Nothing is provable 100%. This gets into statistics. So, what would it take to convince me of a god. Demonstrate it. Replicate the demonstration. Stories of a god in the past do not prove God now. Stories of dragons in the past do not confirm the existence of dragons. Yet, cultures from around the world, that never would have interacted, believed in dragons. If anything, this is better historical evidence for dragons than God. Your/my personal experiences, emotions and beliefs are not good evidence for God. The best you can say is that your God existed. I could claim Zeus existed. You can't prove that he didn't. Can you prove your God now?

[@The77Voice]

Ask most any believer what convinced them. Everyone chose to believe at some point. If you want a previously practicing atheist you can find one and ask them. Mayne one will comment theur experience for you. Hope you find some compelling answers.

[@userL]

Why is he so angry?

[@neo-d8y]

Can't get enough of these types of vids...GOD is AWESOME!!!!

[@criticalthinker8007]

Moral relativism does mean nothing is significant

[@SeekersOfChristus]

what is significant and why?

[@ssarty1]

If you base your morals on the Bible, then you are fine with owning another human being as property. I judge that as evil. You can’t do that.

[@gwockamol]

You’ve misread the Bible if you gathered that from reading it. I assume you haven’t read it and are just going off of what someone else told you. I recommend you read the Bible. I am an atheist, just so you’re aware that this is not coming from a religious zealot. You don’t understand the points being made in Ephesians.

[@Fausto_Fauquer]

GUY AT THE END OF THE VIDEO IS ANGRY CAUSE CLIFFE IS MAKING HIM SEEM LIKE AN IDIOT WHEN ITS OBVIOUS TO THE ENTIRE WORLD THAT HE IS AN IDIOT....LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😅😅😅😅😅😆😆😆😆😁

[@invisible123-l9d]

I have yet to see any of these preachers show genuine respect towards WOMEN, or take advice, or direction, from WOMEN, or treat WOMEN as their EQUAL.