Closer To Truth - Big Questions in Free Will

[@RickDelmonico]

Freewill has a fractal quality to it. The choice you make now will affect the degrees of freedom for all future choices. There is a nested hierarchy of probabilities. Freewill is also determined by the nature of time. Inside of time it looks like freewill. Outside of time it looks like predestination. I have a set of possibilities before me, my perception of these possibilities is imprecise. I make a choice, my intention causes a course of action in the material world. This creates an expression that I experience, generating another set of imprecise possibilities. This continues ad infinitum.

[@graestarr]

ad nauseum

[@dalep.2508]

@@graestarr It sure can be

[@dalep.2508]

Tonya Leibach That's a personal problem

[@mmm-cs7tb]

Very true!

[@gazmasonik2411]

All depends on perspective The ego can make infinite points within finite space 'mumber can always be infinite Just add one more at the end of course not beginning?! Lol.

[@SRS-GAMES]

Fascinating, very well made, thanks for making it free to all.

[@dbizas]

PpppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppPpppPPpPpPpPppPppPPpPppPPppppppppPppPpPppppppPpppPpPpPppPpppppPpppPPppppPppPppppPppPpPppPpPppppPPppPpppppPpppPpppPpppPpppppppPppppppPppPppPppppppppPppppPpppppppPpppppppppPppppppppPPpppppPpppppPppppppPppPpPpppppPpppppppppppPpppPppPpppPpppPppPppPpPppppPpPpPpPppPppPpppppPppPPppPppppPPpPppPppPppPppppppppPpppPpPpppPpppppppPpppPpppppPPPppPPPppppPPpppppPPPpppPPPPpPpppppPppppPppppPppPpPpPpppPPpppppPpPppppppppPppppppPppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp

[@drew-shourd]

Would you say it was their ‘will’ to make it free?

[@Quazi-Moto]

I can't help but notice the most unimportant things, then become distracted by them. Like the fact that Mr. Mele doesn't blink. I'm 20 minutes in and I've had to rewind twice to hear what he said because I was only watching his eyes, waiting for something that never came.

[@NotReallyJon]

😂

[@myhksm3025]

Perhaps, him wearing eyeglasses has something to do with it 😂.

[@Quazi-Moto]

@@myhksm3025 Or glass eyes! Hey, you may be onto something lol

[@myhksm3025]

@@Quazi-Moto I gotta watch the stamp of the video on a loop too to make a fine conclusion that would resonate to him wearing one🤭

[@shaikafzalchem]

This was awesome. Thank you for putting this conference and video together :)

[@thesmokingburrito9097]

Who here jumped over to the Rush Channel to Jam out for a moment. " If you choose not to decide,🎶you still have made a choice!"🎵

[@UIgnorantprick]

Subdivisions 🎶🎶🎶

[@bigsmoke4592]

such a treat to listen to these philosophy professors. I really think at the end of the day free will is a logical problem not a neurological one. It's still nice to see so much interdisciplinary collaboration

[@EinsteinKnowedIt]

If you take logic to the nth degree then yes you have something. Cuase and effect are infinitely linked in thought. Cuase and effect simultaneously infinitely linked in motion and rest.

[@cliveadams7629]

It's just physics. The ball can only roll down hill

[@Peakfreud]

I like your word Selection, you said you "Think" which is humility. Too often these comments claim to "Know" which is an exercise in free will to lie to ones self.

[@LemonChecks]

agree. i think mind and biological brain or independent systems - where the mind is not originating from the brain - but nevertheless the 2 are connected. (somehow) look up compatiblism if you have a chance..

[@liamcarter7597]

@@LemonChecks I’m not going to assume it’s intentional, but that claim is very ignorant to the scientific evidence that we have. The ‘mind’ is completely based in physical processes. There is no ‘spiritual being’ inside you or similar if that’s your train of thought.

[@TriTo57]

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” ― Epicurus

[@damienrockstarthholyonofg3103]

you can only get to good by allowing evil to have free will, then after they do what they wanted to do, only then, can God convict them to do as he wills

[@theofficialness578]

What exactly gives “god” the right to create in the first place.

[@AMessengerofTruth]

I watched a debate between an atheist and a Christian. I am a Christian, but the atheist had one of my favorite quotes - "I say we have free will because we have no choice. You say we have free will because God said so." Truly, if I have "free will," it was forced upon me. I didn't choose it, and would prefer not to have it. As it is, I would prefer to have God's perfect will which is incapable of even thinking of doing evil. I'd rather act like Jesus than myself, because I have evil thoughts that I cannot control, which cause me to do evil sometimes.

[@gregeads6124]

Questions is the spice of life. I think its what makes us human. To question anything, especially yourself is the greatest thing you can do.

[@jeffforsythe9514]

We have free will. People forget that we have a soul, it is you, your soul that is reading this right now. The brain is just like the cockpit of an aircraft and the pilot is the soul.................falundafa

[@ruskinyruskiny1611]

The greatest think you can do is to relieve the suffering of others.

[@growgoodco]

Fantastic! Such a big question to cover in such a short space of time. It would be great to see this followed up with looking into other belief systems and religions. Also amazing to see the 3 disciplines working together.

[@CCShorts]

After reading your response I believe you would enjoy the Consistent Calvinism podcast. Have you heard it yet? consistentcalvinism.podbean.com/e/free-will-is-logically-impossible-for-us-calvinism-vs-arminianism/

[@growgoodco]

@@CCShorts thanks Josh. I’ll go and check that out.

[@CCShorts]

@@growgoodco Thank you for considering checking it out. It has been an eye opener for me. You can also find it on KZbin here... m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/o4W5ZJ2amrChjZI Also if you would like to see his real time interactions you can check him out on Twitter @CCalvinism

[@growgoodco]

@@CCShorts I’ve found it on Spotify and will check it out next week on my morning walks!

[@firstlast9312]

L

[@ClarenceCreekwater]

If you do something for me, I will pay you back if I can. If you do something TO me, I will pay you back if I can. Hail morality!

[@muhammedhizaboliyathvazhay8450]

My all-time favorite documentary.

[@septicwomb4394]

It’s very simple: 1) We know beyond doubt that the nature of conscious experience depends on the state of the physical brain. 2) The physical brain obeys the same physical laws as all other physical matter in the universe. 3) We have two working theories of the nature of matter: i) classical mechanics (deterministic) ii) quantum physics (random, stochastic) 4) Free will in terms of the physical brain is compatible with neither determinism nor quantum mechanical models of matter. 5) There is no logical nor evidential basis for a belief in free will. Free will is not even an illusion. It’s a misapprehension, like believing the world is flat.

[@jamespaternoster7354]

Very well said 👌👍 it saddens me reading the comments and so many people just don’t understand the non existence of free will or deeply just can’t accept that free isn’t possible

[@jamespaternoster7354]

Very well said 👌👍 it saddens me reading the comments and so many people just don’t understand the non existence of free will or deeply just can’t accept that free isn’t possible

[@tiffsaver]

Wow. This is the entire reason I so appreciate the internet. While it can be used to spread bullshit, lies, and half-truths, it can also be used to entertain, enlighten, and educate, which this podcast has accomplished so eloquently. THANK YOU.

[@John--]

Exactly. This is the kind of content that we need.

[@AmericanBrain]

tiffsaver - 1. Physics is not the underlying reality. 2. By far most scientists are correct within their narrow domain but incorrect about the construct of the reality (and science) they are using! For example: for many "love' is merely/exclusively chemical titillation; a mere game and the essential reality is the 'selfish gene' seeking to survive long enough to propagate. To the same scientists - Like illegal immigrants from South and Central America: the southern U.S. border is merely a "useful fiction" . These many scientists are practicing immorality, illegality of the mind. "Pretending" they have free will (as Dawkins himself claims) to skirt around the former scientific finding about "lack of free will corrupts ethics" so they pretend they have free will. _____________________________ So what is the truth? Metaphysics: what is actuality-reality? Existence. So the first branch is metaphysics that I have covered over and over and over again with Q.E.D. absolute whole complete truth: -> existence exists - but who do you know that? You can validate it by touching something or pointing to something. Main point: consciousness is the identification of existence. Therefore , consciousness is separate to existence (separate to the brain; a sui generis - unique so nothing can be analogized yet so many compare it to a computer that it is not). Consciousness is potent (it acts; perpetual first cause and the effect is thought or behavior). You make it act as a unified being : brain, body and mind. However the mind is "PROPERTY DUALISM" [but NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT and NOT substance dualism SO Descartes, Plato and Kant , amongst all other philosophers are wrong). The entire reality is existence but the mind is of existence yet separate to it (property dualism) with its own cause. So if one identity identifies another identity then it stands to reason there is truth: Aristotle's law of identity. And back to your question- how to know truth, identity of anything, know what is right; or what is "knowledge" ? The methods of reason and logic. In other words to use one of two faculties of mind : rationality [methods of reason and logic that must be learned practiced and mastered. Therefore you can turn a POTENT mind into a COMPETENT mind]. The other faculty of mind is emotions: "faith" (feeling of certainty). This is NOT the right faculty of mind to REACH VALID CONCLUSION. It is however the RIGHT faculty of mind to ENGAGE the conclusion with motivation zest, passion like nocturnal activity with loved one - animalistic-ally! The aim is NOT to be SPOCK but to be CAPT. KIRK ! _____ Epistemology: but how do you know any truth? Reason and logic. So how do you know what is right ? You use the methods of reason and logic. That is the second branch of philosophy (correct truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth - and only my philosophy) called epistemology. ___________________ Ethics: man's code for living. _____________________________ Man can chart out ethics with a thought experiment of being stranded on a desert island. What "actions" [virtues] must man enact to sustain his "values" [e.g. life itself]? You can see this on Discovery channels' "Naked and Afraid". Man must (in no particular order) exercise : rationality; productivity (ask yourself how on a desert island where you're stranded); honesty; integrity (live according to your values such as valuing life); pride in your achievements; independence (of mind: you are always responsible); sex; happiness; selfishness: seek your "rational" self interest at all times in all things. justice : you reap what you sow The fact man lives amongst others in society does not "change" ethics. Ethics is Objective: abstracted from the nature of existence. Side notes: when stranded on a desert island rationality is needed to know how to gain food; and you need to exercise productivity to make sure you meet your food needs; build shelter and be "honest" with yourself about your conditions. Many will act irrationality in a panic. Some or many will die in a mental state called "learned helplessness". There is no lack of real life stories of people today being stranded such as in jungle , ocean or desert (due to running out of fuel or other conditions). For example if you are to fish: it turns out to be extremely hard without rationality. To even stab the fish needs one to know about striking vertically in the water! And so many plants, fish and animal are poisonous. Man needs to exercise rationality such as 'cooking the fish'; prospectively 'testing' the food somehow using rationality to determine if one will get sick. Man is a distinct identity from other species. Whereas all other species come pre-adapted to the niche environment , man however must by his identity "invade the environment" and "create value' by re-organizing the environment. There is a difference between absolute primitive man (including other hominoids) and the first rational man that appears about 70,000 years ago with art (jewellery), rituals (e.g graves, burial) , tools (for hunting, for defence etc.) , discovering "fire" etc. So many of the 7 billion humans above have not overtly identified the contents of this post - including many Nobel and other scientists. Many yearn for a return to primitivism in fact such as the green (communist) movement of modern youth. _____________________________ Politics: why does man need a government and what kind? A democracy is to protect Sovereign man through the arms of government such as police, the law courts and the military. A pandemic is an example of top down government advisory or action. From man's right to life, comes man's right to property: to acquire, maintain, dispose or trade your services or property (e.g. hat, cat, mat). A trade is a meeting of mind between two people without fraud or force. The only evil is force or fraud. Evil is all too real and hence man needs a government. "Fiction" like deity or devil is not needed. So the only correct ethical method of economics is capitalism (not socialism). Finally aesthetics: man's mind needs art like man's body needs oxygen. Good art magnifies man's truthful perception of reality. Bad art evades, avoids or escapes from reality. Man CAN enjoy bad art like man can enjoy the evil of "non consensual" intercourse - but that does not "make it right". _____________________________ So there you go the entirety of actuality-reality: Metaphysics: existence Epistemology: reason Ethics: code for liberty Politics: democracy with capitalism Aesthetics: art of all kinds. The above is Objective philosophy. This means all other western philosophy is "mysticism with muscles" just like "if and when" science is inappropriately used to be "the philosophy" (even if it is not labeled that way) by many scientists. The contents of this post are the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The contents here are the "Holy Grail" [metaphor] and "Arc of the Covenant" [metaphor]. They are the complete truth of life, about life, and the meaning of life. Life is benevolence (not malevolent) because you can exercising free will to chart out your destiny (goals, values, dreams). There is no guarantee you will achieve all dreams: but one can guarantee the "process" using reason. _____________________________ Science is very good but does not exist in a vacuum. Science subjects are trees on the forest floor . The floor is philosophy at all times in all things - otherwise you can NOT even "Do" science, you can NOT even "assert" ANY truth. For example to "do" science needs one to perpetually assume there is "existence" and your mind is efficacious (with free will) that differentiates experiment from control; that is able to abduct, induct and deduct in order to generate hypothesis, conduct experiment reach valid conclusion. Otherwise it is inevitably "non science" [keyword: nonsense] and there is no lack of cranks out there. Right ? _____________________________ What is the mind again? Spirit belongs to the mind. The mind is "Sui generis" : a novel entity that is delimited , finite and potent. It belongs to you, is generated by you for your life and you have free will. How can we know that? You can identity existence if you are a rational man. The choice between existence and lack thereof, is the correct choice (unlike mental patients. This is not an insult - this is the literal truth). So the mind is real, of reality, of existence which is equivalent to reality as it "is". The verb "to be": is . It is not Shakespeare's "to be or not to be". Existence just "is" : a concept of infinity - it was , it is and it will be. Existence is an identity. So is the mind another identity. We can confirm Aristotle's law of identity. Man can therefore come know reality and precisely: using the methods of reason and logic. Therefore we have charted out an extremely large number of concepts codified by words in the dictionary. The dictionary gives a short hand definite tag or summary of any and all concepts. It is philosophy used correctly that must elaborate : integrate and associate using the rigor of reason and logic. __________________________ Physics means science. Science is about approximations: specifically about "practical explanation" of reality. Underlying science is philosophy. This is about "absolute" truth, not "practical explanation" . Moreover it's about complete truth throughout spacetime from the pre-quantum to the astronomical. There are many places that philosophy can not tread : it needs your physics. There are several places that physics can not tread it needs the "exclusivity' of philosophy. That said: in all things at all times physics is forever dependent upon philosophy. _____________________________

[@tiffsaver]

@@AmericanBrain I strongly suggest you put your next comments in a LARGE BOOK, not on You Tube. Jesus...

[@AmericanBrain]

@@tiffsaver Is it all quantum ? Feynman didn’t think so and he is a Nobel for quantum ! Then is it all mysticism or scientism ? Intellectual post warning ⚠️! Friends : Soon New Year - belated merry Christmas 🎄 ! I said to friends that “I am having fun arguments with scientists that demand proof . Never buy into neither mysticism ( anything goes ) nor mysticism with muscles like above . The only truth is what I’ve told you about life , mind and the cosmos. But others ask : “fine ! Proof ?” Enjoy 😉!!!! “ ref: Assertion vs Proof vs Validate . Assertion : any fool including me or you can assert anything - free speech . Proof : scientific concept of importance. But science is not your religion else it’s scientism . Science AND math is inevitable intrinsically dependent upon reason and logic such as but not limited to : interpretation of data . -> Otherwise string theory can mathematically prove manyworlds ( million you per second in a million universes as this satisfies Schroedinger’s cat dilemma cat 🐈‍⬛ in quantum physics ); or another theorem - multi dimensions beyond four ( there’s dimensions you can’t see - 10 or 24 dependent upon which mathematicians you talk to ) . But Harrry Potter is grammatically consistent and correct AS WELL like math ! ->>> It still does not make fictions into fact . Never buy into fiction of any type EVER again . You’re remain poor , decrepit , failed , forgotten then Dead 💀 and forgotten ! Instead grab life : navigate it using the correct map 🗺- this is the territory below 👇! ---- So there’s a third way and a reason for this . What? Validation ! How so? -> You can never proof metaphysics ! Why not ? You need antecedent evidence so it’s a logical contraction of infinite regress ! Equivalently MATRIX is out today in the movies leveraging Plato ( the beliefs of most scientists and all mathematicians and computer 🖥 universe ): simulation hypothesis like God or your religion of Scientism ends up in infinite regress - who is the creator of the creator? -> And their creator ? Infinite regress . Error in logic . So what alternative is there - and why ? You can touch or point to something and exclaim as an “ostensive” definition - you can grab a chair 🪑; you can “validate” something exists as opposed to nothing - an act of free will but only in rational human beings ( not mental patients not A.I nor Animals). ->> Consciousness is the identification of existence. Consciousness validates existence . So you have metaphysics ( reality ) that is validated and self consistent: existence , consciousness with free will and Aristotle’s law of identity . But the above therefore ( therefore) means the mind is separate: to existence , to your brain 🧠! Sui generis - unique ( no metaphor , no analogy works ; de novo ). What else is this way ? Life versus non life ( think of the difference between a recently deceased beetle and a living one 🪲!) A scientist can speculate a phase transition ; a strong emergence ; a unique level in the hierarchy like biology is dependent on physics indeed but physics has no equation to predict unfolding (exaption ) evolution. No concept of “entail” based causation ! Instead law of identity means de facto self evident - corollary - law of causation is part of metaphysics . So the mind is perpetual first cause . Please note scientists did away with the colloquial word “cause”. Layman use it to articulate things choosing arbitrary starting points / cut of lines . But in reality : existence exists as in existed , exists and will forever exist ( an infinite , steady state like concept ). But there is causation built into the fabric of the cosmos : law of identity. In order for man to logically discern pattterns at the broadest level such as how the mind works ( your important repetitive question ). Summary : you want to know causes and evidence ( but you incorrectly use the word proof ; thereby making yourself a cult religion of scientism . Science is great . Statues are art . Statues are not Deity as Indians make out . Science is not a religion but a methodology that must ultimately be interpreted by the set above 👆: twin methods of reason and logic. Computers can’t use reason but have blazing speed precise logic . ----- Sir Roger Penrose the Nobel 2020 says the mind is non algorithmic and non computational. The universe a infinite serial Big Bang . He invokes Goedel’s theorem as theory and Intuition used by mathematicians to break out of the algorithmic box 📦 and see a whole new pattern : that computers can NEVER do ( never ) but man can with expertise in math ( or chess ). Sir Roger is almost where I am ; far beyond your impossible CONTRADICTION in theory ( the opposite of any reason or logic ; you having myth and mysticism as your background philosophy but unlike a muslim you’re unaware of so doing ). ->> But Sir Roger is also wrong ! He is also deriving reality like you but from theoretical math . I told you math and science are subset of rationality ; not the superset ! He like you has the syntax wrong . Error ! Consciousness is the identification of existence. -> So existence first and primary . Consciousness is therefore an act of free will : potent ; separate to existence. Finite and delimited to your life ( but existence is infinite ). As one “identity identifies another identity” you have Aristotle’s law of identification. --- Metaphysics : existence , consciousness and identity . But how do you know the above identity and any truth ? Epistemology means the methods of reason and logic are man’s only way to reach truth . You use a potent mind in all your assertions to me . But you’re incompetent as you’re not fully scrupulously ; you are not correctly using rationality . You are prejudiced by feelings and /or incorrect concepts at the wrong level - the concept you call proof . A dog is not a cat even though both are mammals with mostly the same genes 🧬 as each other ( and you )! A gorilla 🦍 even more so like you ! But a wholly different identity nevertheless ! A wholly different concept : specifically a different IDENTITY! Boom 💥! Similarly proof is like validation but a new concept is needed at metaphysics . Validation is a concept wider than proof . There is no antecedent evidence at metaphysics to prove things - it’ll lead to GOD like infinite regress error ! Instead consciousness is the identification of existence. Existence exists . Consciousness Aristotle’s law of identity . The triad in this sequence is metaphysics . You can validate it in a consistent non-contraction using reason and logic . Any other thought , idea , way leads to error : try to say there’s no existence as no proof and/or because if you look at an atom you end up with nothing but a pattern , a bundle of mere energy so nothing reality exists ( austere metaphysicians incorrectly using science or philosophy do exactly that )! But wait ! They like you are stuck at the wrong concept : proof .

[@AmericanBrain]

@@tiffsaver Thanks . FRESH POST 106 ON CONSCIOUSNESS AND PHYSICS. Sabine and Sam Harris literally want you to believe you are a "mindless drone" . You are C3PO! What utter bunk. This post will show you the reasoning. One man just told me an Ancient Greek was going to punish his servant for theft arguing the servant had free will . The man told me the servant agreed and advocated the determinist argument . When I told him he is wrong explaining it in depth he replied : “ your aggressive word salad proves I am right “ ; about himself . I replied : “ 1. your logic is in contradiction . An aggressive response does not “therefore” mean it’s lacking in logical rigor . It does not therefore ( keyword : therefore) mean you are right . In fact you were absolutely wrong . You are not wrong because I say so as any nut job ( me?) can say anything . You are wrong “because” you are in logical error . How ? A slave that has free will uses the opposite argument - as if you are therefore right , a circular argument ; an error of logic . Write to ANY high ranking university in this earth ( 10 months by leagues in the USA 🇺🇸 or Oxford and Cambridge in 🇬🇧 UK ) and I’ll write you a million dollar check if you are right ( and we can go to the press for lifelong notation after that - I will destroy your reputation for life ). Circular logic is an error of logic . Therefore it is you - you - that spike “word salad” 🥗 for this expression itself means logical error particular pertaining to circular logic . Conclusion : both of your premises were wrong . Do you even undressed the meaning of the word “premise “? Have you ever even studied logic ? Never again come to a Gun fight armed with a simpleton’s knife 🔪. You just got slaughtered in public . These posts will remain here for your grandchildren to see . P.S. The slave exercised free will in a clever way ( logically and competently : reason AND logic ) to get out of a beating . Socrates FAILED to do that getting trapped like Spock in logic . Computers are great with blazing fast with logic but man has free will based consciousness including methods like induction that A.I /computers lack . Sam Harris , Sabine , you and others are writing about the mind . Sir Roger the NOBEL also asserts your mind is necessarily non algorithmic and non computational. Do you understand ? We ( Sir Roger and I) both reach the same conclusion using different lines of argument . My argument is the only consistent present and correct one , wholly . I like his argument using Goedel’s therorem . He is wrong because “Goedel applied to Goedel” implodes like Bertrand Russell’s “Liars paradox ( error)”. So only I am wholly absolutely completely consistently correct about your mind and "free will" in the history of humanity using logic ( not faith , not belief , not emotions , not your preexisting prejudices / bias to be seen as a mindless drone like Sam Harris has had you believe about yourself ) . _____ New readers : consciousness is the identification of existence. You can touch a chair and exclaim something exists. Therefore existence exists as opposed to no-thingness. But how do you know that again? I repeat: consciousness is the identification of existence. That means you exercise free will to distinguish and differentiate something from nothing reaching the correct conclusion only if you are a rational person because computers can NOT do that, nor can mental patients nor animals. So if one identity (consciousness) identifies (an act) the other identity (existence) then it means there is Aristotle's law of identity [truth]. So all this is true. Metaphysics [what is reality] is existence, consciousness (with free will) and identity. But how to know what is the identity of anything (like a cat is not a dog) , i.e to know truth? The twin methods of reason and logic. So you do have free will: your mind is potent not impotent like a computer. And your mind can be competent if you learn, use and practice the methods of reason and logic; like a chess aficionado practicing their game. Your game also has rules (of logic). Science is not the ground floor of existence. Science is merely a technique like karate is a technique - both VERY USEFUL. But to do science needs man to grasp , interpret and induct - all acts of mind. To use karate in self defence needs man to grasp it is all right by the law else the man is a brute that justifiably deserves criminal sentencing - right ? NEITHER SCIENCE NOR KARATE exist "a world apart" from reality but are tools of reality, of philosophy as subsets.

[@GUPTAYOGENDRA]

Looked at from outside(objectively) the will is causally determined, and that looked at from inside(subjectively)it is free.

[@thesavantart8480]

No it is not free. You can't have both.

[@muhali3]

@@thesavantart8480 he’s just saying that we have the experience of free will but whatever we end up doing is determined by physical causes that preceded our experience of free will.

[@adamsawyer1763]

@@muhali3 I don't know about you but I have the absolute certainty that I have conscious causal power over my mind and body. If there's a problem it's with scientific models and the interpretation thereof that assume only deterministic or random causes exist. Our most basic experience of existence as conscious entities pokes an enormous hole in our most cherished objective theories of the universe.

[@chewyjello1]

It annoys me when people confuse a lack of free will for fatalism. They are not the same thing. Just because you are your brain and therefore don't have free will, it does not mean your actions don't have consequences in the world. You are also part of the world. It's all one big system. There are consequences for thinking "I don't have free will so I might as well not do anything" just the same as there are diffrent consequences for thinking "I may not have free will, but that doesn't mean I shouldnt do anything." Not having free will does not mean you don't have a will at all! The illusion is the "you" that creates your will...not the will itself.

[@-TroyStory-]

This is exactly why I let my magic conch shell make all my decisions for me.

[@heaven4247]

That's gonna itch.

[@ilikethisnamebetter]

Contact The Templeton Foundation, perhaps they'll shell out some money.

[@KimDrewTheLine]

😂😂😂

[@goalking7778]

I use a magic 8 ball

[@kensurrency2564]

Isn’t it funny how profound Spongebob Squarepants can be sometimes...

[@polychoron]

Thank you for doing such an amazing project! I'm so proud of humanity 💜

[@brianmcnellis5512]

Freewill is a vehicle through which predestined event's take place.

[@jcoats1203]

Brian McNellis Interesting. This concept seems to cause several different ideas I have to fall into a logical order. Thanks for your input.

[@philphilby7777]

Brian you nailed it. Very profound, so profound these words feel like they came from your consciousness and not your mind.

[@brianmcnellis5512]

@@philphilby7777 interesting that you should say that Phil, it did come to me during a “dark dream” without any visual component..

[@prissanamorrison6062]

You will feel free and you can gain happiness.

[@mariaandreaspashi1931]

Good to see people of all backgrounds giving importance for this research, sure many of us are grateful for these documentaries

[@firstlast9312]

Mllllll .l

[@firstlast9312]

Ll.lmm.l L..l lm.mlll.lM

[@jeffforsythe9514]

We have free will. People forget that we have a soul, it is you, your soul that is reading this right now. The brain is just like the cockpit of an aircraft and the pilot is the soul.................falundafa

[@el6178]

These conversations are all awesome and everyone has amazing houses..

[@el6178]

@DecrepitOrigin888 money for all.

[@bluebee5266]

Scientific Academia is big business.

[@georgebernstein12]

Penrose’s interview was clearly in a library or some other public building

[@rasanmar18]

Great documentary!!! I think one of the best I have ever watched. I would like to pose an idea. Which is more phylosophical than scientific, although I hold a PhD degree in Industrial Engineering. For me, one of the most clear piece of evidence of the existence of freewill is the process of learning and improve our results in complex situations. Humans are able to analyze the factors involved in past decisions and decide to make changes in similar situations to improve the outcome of our decisions. In my view, the simple experiments shown in the documentary are too irrelevant and simple to conclude that freewill does not exist. The process of conscious learning to improve our skills is another story. Sometimes we fail and need to change several times our decisions in a chain of conscious iterations until we get a satisfactory result. That is freewill. We have to distinguish between complex decisions where many factors are involved and quick decisions. Maybe different personalities are also involved in the amount of decisions different people make quickly or considering several factors involved, thus through freewill. This could be a subject of future research. I have to tell that I am writing this without having finish to watch the video. I needed to write it to clearly convey the whole idea before forgetting any detail. Now I am going to finish it.

[@burakdemirci9334]

First i thought the same with you. Then i saw your comment and it give me chance to look from outside to my idea. I agree with you about the experiments shown in the video are too simple to analyse the free will. But on the other hand you are mentioning about concious learning to improve our skills (to think / to make a decision ) which is seems to give us freewill. On this point, i think it's an illusion to think that adding more information to our process of decision making gives us freewill. First of all the information (be it a self experience or external information) you'll add to your process will be limited with two constraints: 1. Your decision of which information(s) will be added up to process will not be independent. It will depend your past experiences and to your background. 2. Even if you decide to add all the informations in the universe to your process, this time there will be limitation of computation power. So i'm concluding that, if the decision process limited with information type and quantitiy, than we can't say we have or haven't freewill. We have limited degree of freewill intervals for different kind of decisions.

[@rasanmar18]

@@burakdemirci9334 Good point. Nevertheless, the complexity I have described does not only involves more information, but iterations. In this iterations, we are capable of changing the amount of information, the nature and number of variables, and we are even capable of changing the way we think about the problems we face, thus using a creative process that can last for even years. Think about the greatest advances in science and technology of our history. If it were only a matter of the amount of information, I would agree with you.

[@burakdemirci9334]

@@rasanmar18 ı see your point but why iterations wouldn't be just a parameter of the simulation? Of course there will be iterations in your mind if you designed as an intelligent agent in the simulation.

[@juvetb1]

an example is machine learning or AI. Each time they go through an experience, they get better. So does the machine or AI have free will? Second, are we really responsible for the learning? we know that actually, a lot of learning takes place when we are asleep. We think of ideas, make connections, and find meaning when we are not consciously aware of it. This might suggest that unconscious neural processing is at work. I broadly agree that we probably do not know enough about this to find a definitive answer at this moment (though I am convinced that the answer, as with all difficult problems, will emerge from science - because that's where evidence is tested and understanding is forged).

[@tusharkaul6904]

@@burakdemirci9334 You have Free Will. You are a true scientist. As a true scientist, not believing in Free Will, you have already given up to your Inner Mind, believing that no difference will be there by your conscious interference. Your Inner Mind is already in control. Your Inner Free Will is activated. Remember, as a true scientist, you have no choice but to give in to your Inner Mind, now. This instant. The transfer is complete. Henceforth, you would not be activating your Conscious Mind's Free Will. This is how it would be, henceforth. Back to Reality, you have Free Will, and that leads you to God, If you have Free Will, everything has Free Will. If everything has Free Will, everything has Consciousness. Like there is the Collective Consciousness of your body, there is the Collective Consciousness of the Universe. God is the Whole. Otherwise , you have already stopped consciously interfering.

[@DanijelDrnic]

P. P. S. I mean common sense is the best example of free will. End of story ❤️💪

[@sharonsass1941]

Thank you so much really enjoyed this 🙏🏽✨💛✨

[@hannas4486]

Dear Closer To Truth: Can you please activate the checkbox of the CC (close caption) for all your uploaded and uploading videos? That would help many including those with English as second language and those with reading/accessibility needs. Thanks!

[@thesmokingburrito9097]

I believe you are giving a certain amount of choices that are determined by your past choices so it's a little bit of both life is determined by your choices made in the past and you can choose to follow a different path even though you've been on one for so long.

[@AchievingLife]

I agree yet remain full of questions. Genetics seem to show why we may be more or less prone to like chocolate, have eating habits, etc. Genetics & History/Anthropology/etc seem to point that if our ancestors experienced famine that descendants are more prone to certain heath events. Getting some bad food, say chicken, and getting sick from it can change our preference for chicken. Even when we choose to live differently the question of Why... to which there is usually a reason. One question (of many) can be part of the mind/body problem --- does matter or mind have a greater role in the reasons (the causes) be it "free will" or if determinism in making the decision.

[@moldybreaddd]

Change what you don't want to what you want and that'll be proof that you have choice. If you can't do that, you have no choice.

[@Petre66CA]

Excellent documentary. Thank you for making it free

[@TuringMachine001]

Closer To Truth - Big Questions in Free Videos

[@gidmanone]

it is't free. you spent an hour+ of your life to watch it.

[@ec1385]

Well, they really didn’t have a choice...

[@josephrossomando4528]

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. Who's work are they inquiring about? God's! What then is God's work? Belief on Him? What is belief, but FAITH. So it is not my choice to come to faith But God's work in me that I should beleive on Him!

[@josephrossomando4528]

NO, PLEASE READ UNTIL YOU SEE! John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. Who's work are they inquiring about? God's! What then is God's work? Belief on Him? What is belief, but FAITH. So it is not my choice to come to faith But God's work in me that I should believe on Him!@JC​

[@just_bee9482]

Having struggled with addiction for 30 years, I have gained significant insight into this question from first hand experience. I am a Christian too. In the middle of my addiction and depression, it seemed that I had no freewill whatsoever. At the beginning, we are all free but when we choose to go down the wrong path, it entices us. Once we stimulate an appetite, there are neural pathways that are created in the brain, 🧠 causing us to go down that path over and over again. In that sense, I sympathise with those who may thing that we are not as free as we may think. However, to break an addiction, it is essential to believe that we have the freedom to do so. Breaking an addiction is hard. Very hard. Without the awareness of freewill, we have nothing to appeal to. Self-control is key and built on freewill. There must be something that you can do, as small as it is, to improve your condition. I was myself a compatibilist for many years. It is damning. I found it more beneficial to believe that I am free to choose to improve my conditions from where I am or free not to bother about things that I have no control over.

[@liamcarter7597]

Based on your story I don’t expect to be able to change your mind in any way, but none of the things you said as ‘evidence’ for free will actually made any sense. Even in a free will world view, free will is impeded by things like addiction, needing to use the bathroom, to simply being hungry. But free will is extremely illusory. Free will does not exist really to any degree. Every thought that you have that you believe grants you free will was given to you through a deterministic system. If you are suffering from addiction and you feel that you want to break addiction, it’s because your mind unconsciously controls you into wanting to break it. Your brain still thinks and would like to preserve itself. Your brain ultimately is what is addicted to the substance, not your ego. Even though it seems like you have a conscious craving for your substance, but that’s because your unconscious mind is telling you I need this I need this. You may even have withdrawal and your physical body tells you I need this I need this. I can elaborate on more if you’d like me to.

[@just_bee9482]

@@liamcarter7597 hahaha. I hope you don't expect me to buy into this. Have you ever considered the consequences of what you are saying on society? I get the naturalistic angle that you are coming from but I humbly beg to differ.

[@liamcarter7597]

@@just_bee9482 it’s actually proven that this mindset is more positive for society because in the tests where communities lived under the assumption that free will doesn’t exist finds that people tend to be more forgiving of others. I agree it is a slippery slope though when it comes to implementing ideas like that to the criminal justice system. Clearly I don’t think all people are COMPLETELY faultless for everything. But people are a product of their environment. You are an amalgamation of every experience you’ve had, every idea you’ve been exposed to, every relationship that you have had. And your brain, unbeknownst to you, manifests behaviors COMPLETELY based on the your previous experiences. You cannot escape our deterministic universe no matter how much you deny it to be true. You watched the video, you saw how there’s far more evidence in support of no free will. Almost all the people that maintained their position were just coping with the cognitive dissonance. Although I will say we still know so little about consciousness and other various brain processes; so the ambiguity of it does make it so I can’t really say these people’s opinions are unfounded. Because consciousness seems intuitive. But there’s just so much data that proves free will is an illusion.

[@just_bee9482]

@@liamcarter7597 don't get me wrong. I truly believe that you are an intelligent guy and very capable even though I still disagree with you. Granted, the state of our minds in this life is intrinsically linked to our brains, however, there is more to ourselves than just our brains as important as the brain is. Knowing this subtle difference is essential if one wants to beat a severe addiction. I don't believe that we are necessarily the result of our past experiences. The very same family experience can affect differently two kids in the same home. One can be completely shattered while the other is not phased by it at all. What distinguishes us humans, first and foremost, is our ability to choose, as I have indicated in my previous post. Of course, this ability to choose comes under threat when we have already awakened certain fleshy appetites. But even then, we can choose either to get help, whatever that means, or not.

[@creativechristinaa]

@@just_bee9482 Two children from the same home can have vastly different experiences not because their ability to choose, but because their inherent uniqueness. Even if they were twins, they still were not born at the same time, and they might be treated differently by their parents. Even if they are always together, they cannot physically be in the exact same place at the same time, the closest they can get is being next to each other, so even if they both experience something, they can never have the EXACT same experience, they will have different perspectives on the same experience. Over time, these small differences in their lives build up and give their brains different information on how to react and survive in the world, which is why twins can often have vastly different interests and personalities. Their choices are different not because they are both “freely” making choices, but rather because their brains are different, because of their different experiences. Neuroscience explains that we have “default-mode” processes and then we have the prefrontal cortex which is logical and rational. Usually we are in the “default mode”, but when our rational part of our brain takes over in active thinking, my theory is that it FEELS LIKE we are using our free will, because it feels like our mind is no longer stuck in our body. But I think the feeling of free will is actually just us feeling our brain move between these modes of thinking. I am like you, except for me it was realizing that I probably don’t have free will which helped me get over my addictions. I like to think that my “consciousness” is the front of my brain, which is smart and helps me quit smoking, whereas my “subconscious” is the rest of my brain, which is the part that makes me want to smoke in the first place, because it makes me feel like a slave to bad memories, social anxiety, trauma, etc. I think the important player here is information: when the front of my brain gets new information, it helps pull me out of bad cycles in the back of the brain. To me, it’s not scary to think that our feeling of “free will” is just our brain. In fact, it’s helped me feel like my problems are not the weight of the world. Not having free will, to me, means I dot have to walk around with shame and guilt, because though my problems are my responsibility, they are not my “fault”. Even the things that have been done to me were not truly the “fault” of others, but rather the way the world was supposed to work, because of the way the world affects all of our brains. (To be clear, this doesn’t mean I think we should have no consequences for bad behavior, I just believe our definition of “fault” is misleading.) This helps me empathize with the whole world, including myself, and has allowed me more healing than “free will” has ever offered me. I feel more connected with the world, and others, than ever before. The information that free will might not be real, has released me from negative cycles in my brain, and allows my rational brain to build new paths and build me a better life. To me, not having free will is NOT about having no control. To me, not having free will means everything has a reason, which means I can understand myself, others, and the world much deeper. Not trying to knock down your experience. Just wanted to put my perspective here so that you can see how others might see things or be affected differently. I think this just shows that it doesn’t really matter, to some degree, if free will is real or not, it only matters what we make of our experiences. As a compete amateur though, I do think that believing we have free will was helpful to humans evolutionarily.

[@alsindtube]

As usual, great stuff. My one criticism is that whenever you bring theology into the conversation it’s always western theology. The interesting thing is that eastern traditions mesh very well with the findings of quantum physics, along with the study of consciousness. I think it’s a disservice not to factor them in to the conversation. Narrowing theology to Judaism and Christianity misses the richness of not only eastern thought, but excludes Islam and its esoteric form of Sufism. I believe that including these ideas in the conversation will get us yet even closer to truth. 😜

[@creativechristinaa]

This is a great point!!

[@autumn111155551]

He does explore eastern religions in some of the episodes

[@XenomorphTerror]

Religion. For soft-minded individuals, afraid of non-existence. Ego death is nothing to mourn, nothing to fear, nothing to center your lifetime around a fairytale. What was it like before your birth? What will it be like after your death? Those questions are one and the same; Irrelevant. How many religions are there? Don't answer that, there are too many, and they're all false. There is nothing, aside from physics, which came from nothing, and heads towards nothing. Our civilization will collapse long before our natural extinction event, because of our hubris and hypocrisies. So many governments, so many cultures, so many conflicting ideals with which human beings will slaughter each other over. The outlook is bleak. I don't believe our species is capable of focusing on science above all. It's just simple to have nations of sheep 🐑 people. Everything our culture does is to mitigate the heavy existential crises that occurs when an intelligent individual has enough introspection to understand the lack of value, morality, etc. In a non-baised material universe. There are no Devine judgements. The moment our species figures this out, we can rip that band-aid off, and move forward in strides by striving for actual truth.

[@mitrabuddhi]

Moving Beyond Free Will to Wise Will The conventional notion of “free will” as choices totally uncaused and free of constraints does not align with reality. All choices appear shaped by internal and external factors. While some degree of self-determination within constraints seems possible, questions remain about how truly independent choice could arise within causally determined systems. Considering causation at different “scales” suggests that while the microscopic realm behaves probabilistically, macroscale structures exhibit behaviors that appear “free” despite deterministic underpinnings. This illustrates how volition could emerge from probabilistic frameworks. Yet uncertainties endure regarding the compatibility of determinism and “free” choice. Traditionally, philosophers have debated whether free will exists unconditionally. But a reconsideration of human choice suggests a more useful reframing: rather than simply trying to prove or disprove free will, we ought instead to cultivate wiser volition within constraints. Instead of fixating on “free will,” we should move beyond this notion altogether and focus on developing a “wise will” through deep understanding, discernment, and empathy. There likely exists no will that is truly “free” from all causal influences. But within constraints, a wise and informed perspective can cultivate a will that chooses optimally to minimize suffering and maximize well-being. This points to the need to replace the very notion of free will with that of wise will - volition based on insight into reality and benevolence for all beings. Wise will chooses skillfully within constraints in accordance with reality, arising from a clear and balanced perspective rather than craving or aversion. While philosophical mysteries remain around determinism and free agency, the cultivation of wise will through insight offers a path aligned with the world as it is. Examining how wisdom allows for optimal choice within bounds may reveal how to manifest volition that truly matters. In the pursuit of wise will, it is essential to recognize the interconnectedness of all beings and the importance of making choices that benefit not only oneself but also others. Developing a wise will involves fostering a deep understanding of ethical principles, as well as cultivating empathy and compassion for all sentient beings. Moreover, the cultivation of wise will transcends cultural and religious boundaries, as it is a universal principle that can be embraced by people of diverse backgrounds and belief systems. By promoting wise will, we can foster a sense of global responsibility and interconnectedness, encouraging individuals to make choices that contribute to the greater good. To further explore the concept of wise will, philosophers and researchers may investigate the neurological and psychological underpinnings of decision-making, seeking to understand how various cognitive processes intersect to produce choices that align with wisdom and compassion. This interdisciplinary approach could yield valuable insights into the nature of human volition and its potential to be guided by wisdom and insight. In conclusion, as we move beyond the traditional notion of free will, the cultivation of wise will offers a more meaningful and practical approach to understanding human agency. By focusing on fostering wisdom, discernment, and compassion, we can encourage individuals to make choices that align with a deeper understanding of reality and contribute to the well-being of all. As a result, we may move closer to a world in which our collective decisions are guided by wisdom and benevolence, rather than by craving or aversion. drmora.ir/2023/06/30/moving-beyond-free-will-to-wise-will/

[@pzolsky]

Free Willy

[@angelinarobert622]

Good one. That actually made me laugh. You win a gold star for the day. Peace bro.

[@primovid]

That's the bigger issue that even Kuhn doesn't dare discuss

[@alexhoffman8652]

Profound.

[@dirkbastardrelief]

Are you offering? Because frankly I’m kind of lonely and I… Wait - how old are you?

[@jodo6329]

@@dirkbastardrelief you sad, sad man

[@thetruthseeker.hereisthetr5502]

The Basis of Free Will is Formed by THE POWER OF HUMAN SPEACH & THOUGHT...

[@bruced8893]

I think in the quantum world, the subconscious helps your conscious self once it knows your intention. Your free will is still intact.

[@kirstinstrand6292]

Knowing our intention evolves as we continuously evolve into greater Consciousness. And I concur that Free Will is in play.

[@truerealrationalist]

P1) We have a will (wants/desires). P2) Our wants and desires are formed by external stimuli (prior causes). C) Causality is required for a will (of any kind) to exist. Therein lies the problem with applying acausality as a prerequisite for the existence of _free_ will; it entails the commision of the logical fallacy of asking too much, as doing so necessarily negates the possibility of the existence of _any_ will.

[@mitchkahle314]

Which is more likely: 1) the mind changes the universe; or 2) the universe changes the mind?

[@Bix12]

The answer to that is "YES"

[@LemonChecks]

i've always felt an aura of predetermined timelines & events where i'm just a spectator here - simply going.experiencing the motions 🤷🏽

[@constructivecritique5191]

Yes, and you probably choose to sit back and observe for a reason. So you could better understand and give full attention to things happening around you without being distracted by what you were doing.

[@michaelbruns449]

Thats probably dejavu remnants of reincarnation memories...

[@constructivecritique5191]

@@michaelbruns449 or he is just doing nothing but observing how things work without him. Supervisors do it best. Then they go and tell everyone the great work they did. Amazing, lol

[@Peakfreud]

That's a shared experience for many. Some even have it as a personality trait, not saying this applies to you at all, but Disassociative Personalities feel this way consistently. Thanks for sharing you experience And thoughts

[@LemonChecks]

@@trafficjon400 huh ？..

[@EvenStarLoveAnanda]

I am aware of my intuition sending me Information about a third of a second before I make decision, from a higher level, but I also have the free will to go against my intuition. And that is when things go wrong. So it is best to be spontanious and go with the Intuition every time. The Mind is an alien decice overlay that hyjacs my free will.

[@MrLaTEchno]

.....so follow your heart

[@ryanmodom]

When you “go against your intuition” nothing goes wrong. it’s just an update to your previous intuition.

[@paulpease1788]

I couldn't have said that better myself....unless I hadn't thought about saying this before I think I finished reading the post before I really thought about it.

[@paulgarduno3127]

We are free beings, within our pre-determined boundaries. (By our Creator's FREE WILL.)

[@chewyjello1]

Letting go of the idea of free will had the opposite effect on me than it did on the people in the study. I was able to let go of long carried shame and started setting up environmental systems and removing barriers to help me accomplish my goals....instead of depending on "will power" and failing again and again. I also became more forgiving of myself (and others) and more resilient. Of course I have ADHD so the areas of my brain that are used for executive functioning (as in will power, decision making, and initiative) are under developed. I would have liked to hear more about how these studies pertain to neuro-diverse people.

[@paulheinrichdietrich9518]

Spinoza would say that by understanding the causes of our actions and how everything is determined we became more free since we let go of irrational passions such as hatred, fear or hope, and by means of this understanding become more "free".

[@nicholaswion846]

In what way does exerting deliberate control over ones environment, as opposed to primarily relying on exerting energy to overcome resistance in the moment, equal an abandonment of the concept of Free Will? it sounds to me more like you have discarded a false expectation that Will POWER, is somehow supposed to be effortless, and recognized that you can produce much better results, by employing your Free Will much earlier.

[@jameseverett9037]

@@nicholaswion846 - yes, and ironically, he had to employ free will to even suppose he COULD "let go" of the idea of free will. Whether or not I even CAN "let go" of an idea, would depend on whether I had free will or not. Then on top of that, use free will to decide to manage his environment for a better outcome. There is so much free will in his statement that it begs the question what he thought free will was.

[@nicholaswion846]

@@jameseverett9037 Like I said, it seems to me that they were expecting that if ones Will were Free, that Willpower should be effortless: but its one thing to assert that making different choices is possible, quite another to suggest that it should be easy.

[@jameseverett9037]

@@nicholaswion846 - right -another crucial point. People question free will as if we are either always using it or else it doesn't exist. It may be that having it isn't the same thing as using it, and that it's quite possible that most people never use it at all, but go through life as automatons. Even having a sense of free will doesn't mean one is really using it, but just sensing it, being too afraid to use it.

[@T.image79]

Will can never be free. I have him locked in my basement.

[@easywind4044]

I hope it is not Will Smith. I want him to make more movies.

[@jarde1989]

@@easywind4044 naw, we need fresh blood in Hollywood every 10 years or so Otherwise you get more Weinsteins

[@humanbeing5396]

That was determined to happen.

[@johnstjohn4705]

You made the best comment.

[@mrolesen604]

😁

[@ericbird9078]

Decent documentary. I'm certainly glad it's out there. This is an issue largely ignored by prevailing culture, and even encounters violent opposition because it makes people afraid that without everyone being judged and feeling guilty and ashamed of their actions they're all gonna be murderers, which just isn't true. If we acknowledged that we lack this agency, we could look at the actual causes of negative behaviors, instead of making it a moral issue. And that's why it is important that we both ask and answer this question vocally, and why I'm glad that this doc exists. Thanks to the participants, even the detractors. Though I feel your viewpoint is greatly in error, I also believe that the most important and fundamental pillar of a free society is a spirit of open and honest debate.

[@roberthutchins4297]

I´m sure the people who made this, and other, documentaries will be delighted that an " Eric Bird" considers that they did a decent job. I hope he might find time in his crowded schedule to explain the meaning of "gonna". Is it a medical term? I believe that there is no such thing as "free will". Our apparent some-time ability to choose depends entirely on our brain and heredity. Others may not know what we´ll choose, but it will always be the same in any given circumstances. It must be so, because the alternative would be randomness.

[@ericbird9078]

@@roberthutchins4297 Thanks? You've never heard the word "Gonna"? It's pretty common. We "Eric Birds" are known for our insight. I gotta ask (there's another one for you) were you trying to argue against what I said, or just to indicate that you think I should be aware that my opinion is not important to the film makers?

[@roberthutchins4297]

@@ericbird9078 No - I was just in a bad mood. Of course, all our opinions are of supreme relevance and importance. To ourselves. Usage of "gotta", "gonna" etc in a piece of text is debatable. Certainly, most purists would find it irritating. The introduction of childishness into an otherwise interesting topic. I do find argument about free will strange. To me, it seems obvious that it does not exist in any meaningful sense.

[@ericbird9078]

@@roberthutchins4297 you're right. I forget how formal this format is. My apologies.

[@ericbird9078]

@@roberthutchins4297 again. We seem to be in agreement about free will. I disagree, however, that it's a settled matter. Our entire society is based on an idea of personal responsibility that is incorrect. Should we not address this?

[@cmvamerica9011]

There is only one future; because there is only one past.

[@musthaveblues]

My free will lead me to watch this video. It was fascinating. Human beings are very special no matter how or why we can to be on this big rock.

[@bitegoatie]

We are animals, and we make decisions like other animals and other beasts do. If we are free, every being that makes decisions is free is the same sense - or not. We are dominant, not different.

[@Peakfreud]

That's interesting, not sure I agree But it's a fair perspective.

[@tommyvictorbuch6960]

"I believe I have free will - I have no choice." - Christopher Hitchens.

[@jakecostanza802]

Tommy Victor Buch He robbed Sartre.

[@gerardmoloney9979]

That about wraps up Hitchens' understanding and logic. He was a very intelligent and articulate man so much so that he drew his conclusions very fast and in my mind too fast. He always seemed to show his delight in his own GOD GIVEN GIFTS to be able articulate his fast thinking mind and wit without stopping to analyse the reasons for information supplied in the bible. For someone with his ability to read and find fault that supported his convictions in the bible, he never seemed to not take time to understand the not so obvious underlying meaning of the scripture. The bible actually has a statement in it, if I remember correctly, which warns about those who think themselves wise as being fools. God have mercy on him and grant him eternal rest in peace Amen.

[@tommyvictorbuch6960]

He was a naughty boy.

[@jakecostanza802]

Tommy Victor Buch my favorite

[@markmarino5053]

Christopher who ?

[@evaadam3635]

Free Will is the power of the aware soul which is separate from physical brain's processes but temporarily dwelling inside the brain for a chance to choose to have faith for its salvation.

[@levicrossdechantel]

Hawthorn effect. People tend to change their behaviors when the subjects know that they are being watched. They should have included that in their studies. Great documentary either way.

[@markfuller]

This was one of the most thought-provoking videos I've seen in awhile. For a few years lately, I've been thinking how Benjamin Libet's discovery (our choices/decisions occur 2/10ths of a second before our conscious mind think it made the choice/decision) in terms of mindfulness. That's the practice of detecting thought entering your mind, exercising a veto power (if only to not think about it *this moment*, not worrying that it will reemerge in the next moment. Not worrying about the next moment. Just _now_, "there's a thought. I don't need to think about that right this moment."). Mindfulness could put us at that brink of 2/10ths of a second. The gap. The edge of subconcious. The point of emergence. It's interesting to think about our conscious mind being only 10% of our mind, and we feel like it's *monumental* to be able to exist (momentarily) at that point of emergence (from the 90%). It's weird, isn't it? We have a continuous self-talk narration of our "schmere" of moments, and that's just more of the 90% driving us in an unseen way. We practice putting ourselves at that brink of emergence (however briefly), and that's "enlightenment" (the 10% enlightened over the 90%?). It's humbling when you put it in perspective. I think this also ties into mental illness. The oft-stated definition "doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result." If someone's subconscious is fractured (dis-integrated) due to trauma as a child, etc., that's acted out in ways the person doesn't see. Those decisions/narratives emerge from the subconscious just like they do for "normal" people. It just doesn't emerge from the same turmoil of buried shame, anger, etc. Mindfulness is often helpful to the mentally disturbed, to be more aware of how this turmoil emerges within them (the "dark passenger" as Dexter referred to it). That leads to greater stress because that pattern of habituated narration is soothing, fills a purpose (a distraction). The person essentially disarms it with their observation. They have to replace a maladaptive coping mechanism (that ran on autopilot) with more "in the moment" (aware) ways of existing. Kurzweil and others have long-suggested we'll have brain implants to use google maps, and buy stuff on Amazon (even upload ourselves -- thought processes, memories -- to a quantum ai-enabled superintelligence. Someone's going to obviously design an implant to squelch the emergent (irrational) self. Will that be good? or bad? What would that be like to make decisions without the "backseat driver?" Would it be bewildering to knowingly make "rational" choices without the subconscious's contribution? Or, a relief? (I think that kind of existence is what mindfulness brings a person close to. Less blind trust & faith, more humility that we operate mostly on auto-pilot.). Regarding free-will & the young lady with the side of her head wired up (so her challenger had an advantage, seeing her subconcious choice before her conscious expression of it): I wonder what that would look like if she was informed that this is how it works. Could she "fake out" the challenger? Could she pledge to do the opposite of whatever she decides to do? What would that look like to the challenger? I feel like we don't have free will until we practice mindfulness. Then we exercise observation and a veto power over what we observe (watching the thinker inside us). That's made me wonder if this isn't related to quantum mechanics? If we don't observe our thoughts, we go along believing our lies and it either works out fine or not. It's just a random pattern that has more to do witht he past and how the past impacted us (what we became). If we observe it, then we have the power to chose which "slit" the choice goes through? The 10% of our mind can control the 90% just through observation. It's no longer just a random mess, but predictable and explainable?

[@I_Am_Become_Light]

I think Libet's experiments reveal that the brain is indeed a receiver of consciousness, as opposed to a producer of consciousness. The body is an "avatar" that is being "played" by a unit of consciousness that does not exist in this reality frame.

[@markfuller]

@@I_Am_Become_Light Dr. David Vago has studied this too. There is a Tedx video which I thought was very good.[1] "From birth to the present day, our self, *our experience of being someone* - our wants, our desires, our hopes, our values, our expectations, our whole self-identity - *is continually constructed by a string of moment-to-moment processes of selfing.* These moments can be further broken down into processes of *perception, sensory awareness & evaluation* - all of which happen on a time-scale of half-a-second (500ms)." Western academia discouraged him from studying mindfulness (being aware of the gap between construction of consciousness and experiencing it). Ten years later, the Dali Lama practically commanded him to continue his work as "the most important thing being done on earth." Lots of good points in that video. He divides the 500ms into 250ms spent on perception & sense awareness, and 250ms spent on evaluation. The latter half is where we tend to get stuck and continue the evaluation in the conscious mind (ruminating, narrating, self-talking). His studies showed that the more attention (presence) given to the first half (perception/awareness), the less hung up people were in the latter half (less prone to ruminating; letting "evaluation" continue on autopilot). From my own experience awakening, I really feel this 1/2 second gap between subconscious and conscious is huge. Everyone's walking around believing "I'm manufacturing or concluding my experience of reality" (when in fact they're watching a movie in their heads. Something that was largely concluded for them slightly beyond their control. The only control they have is to be aware of that, and exercise a veto power over the autopilot nature of the subconscious emerging our conscious mind. It's not really out of our control that way.). I think it's very interesting. 1/4 second doesn't sound like a long time. But, install VLC Player and play any video. Use the "j" & "k" keys to add 300ms delay between audio/video, and it's that's how out of sync we are with the subconscious mind. It's substantial (enough to know that we aren't experiencing reality consciously.). A ghost in the machine. (Then consider how the subconcious mind is 95% of the brain, conscious mind is only 5%. And then, we're typically distracted half the time. So, our conscious mind is typically only 2% of the brain.). It's bizarre how we walk around with an unstated belief/certitude/hubris that "I'm actively experiencing reality as it is." (Then consider how 95% of the universe's matter is unaccounted for. We can only see 5%. And then consider how a map of the universe looks a lot like a brain, with synapse connections. It makes me wonder if reality is recursive like a fractal. Maybe the universe is a brain, and our brain is a universe for infinite consciousness. A conversation better had over a bong. :) ). [1] Video title: _Self-Transformation Through Mindfulness | Dr. David Vago | TEDxNashville_

[@jeffforsythe9514]

We have free will. People forget that we have a soul, it is you, your soul that is reading this right now. The brain is just like the cockpit of an aircraft and the pilot is the soul.................falundafa

[@Irtechie]

Doesn't mean there wasn't decision at that point. So I am confused on what this was suppose to prove.

[@ItsTaylorFrench]

At 2:20 he pushes and then realizes it’s a pull door 😂😂😂

[@jillevers4710]

Yes LOL!

[@lighthousecharlie6712]

Free will to push

[@jillevers4710]

Guess I shouldn't laugh...but all doors for public buildings are supposed to be made to push out. This is because it allows quick exit in the event of fire, etc. Sadly, they made it a law when there was a Fire in a crowded auditorium. Everyone rushed the doors but, because they opened inward, the first people to the door were jammed up against it by those behind them pushing to get out preventing many from escaping. now, every time I enter a building, I note if it is made to open out. Especially in older buildings.

[@Garian9]

You'd think they'd do another take.

[@stefanandersen7726]

@@jillevers4710 wow thanks for info thats nice

[@darkwillow57]

Even if there is quantum randomness and determinism isn't true it doesn't mean we have any free will.

[@mdbosley]

From the Buddhist perspective anything we would call "Will" would arise dependent on conditions. Furthermore, freedom from suffering is realized by abandoning Dependence on Conditioned things. Take from this what you will.

[@sweeptheleg1683]

Why did you capitalize Dependence and Conditioned?

[@peterwelsh1932]

!EVERYTHING! is dependent on conditions. That is why there is no “freedom from suffering”. There is only to embrace the suffering. Take from this what will arise dependent on conditions.

[@caricue]

@@peterwelsh1932 You can eliminate mental and emotional suffering by eliminating desire. Desire and want is what leads to suffering in the mind. Physical suffering is a different animal.

[@peterwelsh1932]

@@caricue but after a lifetime and lifetime of desiring to be free from desire, it may occur to you that you have this all consuming desire to be free from desire. One of those old "gotcha!" "CATCH 22s" that The Ancients threw in there to F--- with us.

[@peterwelsh1932]

@@caricue butt yeah, still aim for that. Its an awesome noble goal. If we all made a tiny but of progress that way, it'd probably be enough to change everything

[@shocfacter]

Free will and just ONE being in the universe who knows everything that we'll do, cannot exist at the same time. Its either one or the other.

[@paulheinrichdietrich9518]

It is funny how it was Augustine who discovered this.

[@nicholaswion846]

However, that rests primarily upon the assumption that the classical perception of Time, is in any way a valid concept. The biblical "Prophets" are not presented as individuals gifted with precognition, but instead recipients of communication. It hardly requires an all knowing supreme being, to find humans to be laughably predictable, nor would such a being require certain knowledge of all future events and choices, in order to express its own intended actions. Not even God could be expected to be able to perceive something, if it does not actually exist in the first place.

[@FR-yr2lo]

nope. no free will. simply illogical.

[@ryanpford77]

it's Both and .......

[@futuraguysuntzuphilosophy7181]

Then how do we grow? How do we find per pose in a world that see’s man as an accident or made by God? They are equal and the same! Their isn’t good or evil, just actions and Circumstances!

[@jasoncharles8651]

Ahhhh, my brain is going to explode! I love this!

[@ameralbadry6825]

Marvellous man, appreciate a lot all of his work and his great mind. Thanks Mr. Khun.

[@muhammadmohsin1021]

It would be great if they included a quantum physicist like Henry Stapp in this project,

[@loturzelrestaurant]

Forrest Valkai made a good video about Gender and the stuff Science writes Books about here.

[@martinarreguy2210]

Conscientious remains unexplained and unknown, these theories are formed by the same minds that created the theories in the first place; therefore leaving them or the ideas as significant failures and none sequitur arguments. You cannot fix the problem with the same minds that created it. Albert Einstien

[@damienrockstarthholyonofg3103]

consciousness on the other hand is explained and very known

[@williamdehner3968]

That seems very Logical!😇🌜🌝🌛😁 This also explains a lot of other Subjects 🙏🕵️🙋👉😎👈🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@AbCDef-zs6uj]

lol @ 6:58 Q: So do you see a lot of cross-pollination among these three areas of research [science, philosophy, theology]? A: Oh for sure, scientists and philosophers meet at several conferences each year, and both these two groups respect and value each other's research. Theologians: "Am I nothing to you?!"

[@HASHHASSIN]

fuq theologians :D

[@robshaw7282]

I noticed that too.

[@AchievingLife]

At least some good Comparative Religion Scholars and some Buddhist Scholars on Consciousness would be quite beneficial. So many of these question are/were/started/became part of the beliefs of many religious and spiritual traditions around the world.

[@lukewade9953]

How we work is of the most cleaver way. We do things that it seems like we are doing them by a freewill. In actuality it's our emotions making our decisions for us. Now what's cleaver about us is that we have a thinking brain that can rationalize things which can change what we do. It does not change our emotions it just produces another emotion that can change what we do by adding a stronger emotion or a new factor to the equation.

[@jabber3303]

To this view free will is nothing more than a form of conscious intelligence, i agree

[@ddandrews6472]

Robert Kuhn never stops to amaze me with his ability to compartmentalize his critical thinking and keep bringing in the subject of theology, aka purposely complicated superstition, into the debate and exploration of deeper questions of human existence with the existence of the world around us. Somebody who's claiming to have done a PhD in neuroscience(even though long time ago) is seemingly unable to come to the terms that these organized religious ideas and systems are nothing more than superstition gradually expanding into an organized system with cultural elements integrated into it. And not to mention the clear evidence of neuroscience that indicates the biological role these organized religions play in our collective and individual behavior. This troubles me to the point of losing some confidence on myself and questioning my own critical thinking ability and investigate whether I suffer from self delusions like Robert Kuhn by compartmentalizing my own critical thinking into areas where I rationalize abundantly clear evidence to find some emotional satisfaction by burying my critical thinking in selected compartmentalized areas.

[@michaeljordan750]

So, is the state of "Quanta" a "Superstition"? The FACT that a Quantum collapse is attributed to the very moment of observation. The State of Quanta knows ‘no’ distance, time, amount, boundaries; a sub-atomic particle is not even bound to event horizon (travels beyond the speed of light) in fact, duality is instantaneous. It was abundantly clear that Quantum Physics was going to create serious issues for those who are "too smart for God" … The Irony… Science has made the biggest case for a God or "Creator" scenario by providing unmistakable proof that we have no idea. Is Religion part of my argument? …No. Religion is an organized view on something that cannot be organized. Superstition is an irrational belief system based on zero logic. Placing a belief in the possibility that we have a “Creator" is no more irrational than the Science of creating a Human fetus within an artificial womb which is now "possible" according to Science and yes it is very real; If we can create Humans with nothing more than a copy of DNA, it isn’t exactly reaching when visiting the possibility that we were not "First"… Maybe we think we are "Smart" until someone smarter walks us to the front door 🚪 of "Answers" and our ego won’t allow us to admit we don’t always have the ANSWER.

[@ddandrews6472]

@@michaeljordan750 It is not clear to me from the above whether you're trying to make a point here or what that point is, if that is the case. "The Irony… Science has made the biggest case for a God or "Creator" Science had done NO such thing. So, not sure what you're getting at here. Quantum mechanics has never claimed to support the notion of creation by a higher being. It opened up our minds to the idea of the illusion of the reality, at least in sub-atomic world. It is inevitable we bump into bizarre behavior like double slit experiment once we break down the physical matter(as we experience it) into smallest possible part and discover they don't behave the way we experience the observable macro world. Atom is our assumption nd theory. When it got to the point of not behaving like the macro world objects, we had to create quantum physics to deal with it. It has been a better option so far, than having to abandon the physical model of electrons, protons ,neutrons and plethora of other sub-atomic particles. You're confusing the totally superstitious idea of creation out of nothing by a higher entity that resides outside our reality has created us with the ideas of science(modern) has been doing with stem cells. I'm not sure what you are getting at by saying "If we can create Humans with nothing more than a copy of DNA". Stem cells, embryos, etc are much more than a copy of DNA. "No. Religion is an organized view on something that cannot be organized." How did that happen that the religion is organized view of something that cannot be organized? What is that "something" that you're referring to? Existential crisis??!! There are many other things that human mind has been grappling for ages that cannot be organized either, but we don't call them religion(s). Try this for a definition of religion(s) that has no complications. "Religion is nothing more than organized superstition or irrational belief systems that provide us a fantasy for the existential question as well as comforting part of cultural unity." Now, is that science that came out of judeo-christian tradition the same as irrational belief system of judeo-christianity? I am afraid not quite. Judeo-christianity has given the foundation of the world view to modern science that apparently started in the Middle Ages. But, science has this 'magic' where it can make reasonably accurate predictions as oppose to the superstitious stories of the judeo-christianity that have been hopeless with predictions of the natural world or human existence. No argument the judeo-christian story and view of the world and us, gives us some comfort in this difficult existence of life(at most times). But, not comfortable enough for some of us who happens to have inquisitive and critical minds. If you were trying to convince me the judeo-christian god is real, and as real as the physical model of the basic building blocks of the matter, you have not convinced me. However, do not get me wrong to think I believe in the atom and sub-atomic particles are real and they exist, because I am already aware it is theoretical model that we've created and it has been serving us well with our predictions of the behavior of physical matter. I am well aware that our physics is a result of dissecting the physical matter into smallest possible building blocks in our heads. The reality may be far more different and ultimately may not be knowable with our limited awareness of the world as we see it. (I am happy to admit to ignorance and happy to park it right there for now).

[@hecticnarcoleptic3160]

@@michaeljordan750 Quantum collapse is attributed to the moment of measurement, not observation. You got that bit wrong and woo woo mambo jumbo word salad followed...

[@georgebernstein12]

It’s always fascinates me when someone tells other people they are completely wrong when we know sooo soo very little. Until there is proof, you can only say somethjng is more or less likely. you cannot speak in definitives when talking about the machinations of the universe

[@georgebernstein12]

What allowed gravity to exist and start the Big Bang ?

[@clubadv]

The hypnosis segment is hard to swallow. I always see hypnosis as consciously derived for motivated reasons, sometimes for attention on stage.

[@vivi-fe5rj]

Yeah. Looks to me like she was listening and conscious the whole time, and the results are from two identical sessions, being that she was conscious both times. Whether that consciousness played a role in the decision can't be determined through something as questionable as hypnosis.

[@marycunningham6231]

I have a hard time excepting Hypno sis, but I have tried twice and never been able to become hypnotized. At this point I can’t even say that it is real, for me it is not real. For others perhaps it may be real.

[@silverbell6160]

And in the squeezing when she wants part is biased as the subject also received the order to squeeze, she could pick when but she received an order nonetheless, that could affect the results

[@dulcemoutinho1903]

Not always.

[@dulcemoutinho1903]

@@marycunningham6231 only a 1% of the world population are hipnoticabel

[@LeeGee]

I very much appreciate your posts - many thanks!

[@R.L.Thomas]

Freewill is not about action. It's about "choice". Once you have chosen then you act, or not then you have made another choice. That's freewill.

[@ANYTNSharp]

Exactly, they have misinterpreted the evidence

[@mindscraped]

The simple way of looking at this is how you define free will. If you define free will as the ability to make choices then yes it appears we have free will. How ever when it comes to decision making do we really have free will? or the question is . do we make wrong choices? Rarely do we deliberately make wrong decisions on purpose. Our emotions dictate what choices we make the majority of times. Every decision is about a reward. the best decision is dictated by the best reward. And even when we make decisions that might postpone a reward it is still to achieve a greater reward. No one makes a decision that does not result in some reward. So due to this one would reject the idea of free will . One might argue that at times there are choices that are equal. But the person may still be more invested emotionally to one outcome.. That said any one can make a greater effort to become more aware of their feelings and desires so that they become aware that of their emotions that might drive their decision. Becoming aware of how our feelings effect our decisions cn give us the ability to have true free will. Especially when we realize that our emotions are not objective.

[@dulcemoutinho1903]

We make decisions based on information that we already possess.

[@jesperbllefr719]

the problem of free will is like most other problems in philosphy, its limited by your perspective. if you dig to deeply into the fabrics of the universe, you wil find it all to be illustions, even a physical table (wich most people think of as a "thing") is also something that happens and the configuatation its in at the moment is such that we label it as a table.

[@AchievingLife]

And then we can ask what is a table - it is different things to different people. Caves of forms and particulars, or the Yogacara and Three Natures. Is it then the mind/body question or the question of what is matter? Whether we call it free will or determinism what are all the "things" that are making the decision (being the cause) that is having an effect?

[@ramaraksha01]

But the table IS physical, to us! The being that we are made of flesh and blood, the table is very real - that view gets lost sometimes

[@jesperbllefr719]

@@ramaraksha01 yes, lets not get lost in the wouu here, both you and the table are real physical objects. but physicality is also an emergent phenomenon

[@technomage6736]

I argue that it's worth noting that the very idea of an "illusion" is only a concept. A mind can perceive something that other minds, or even itself, might consider abnormal (illusion), but THAT this mind percieved what it perceived actually happened, and was a result of the natural universe doing it's thing. When a high enough percentage of minds agree on perceptions, we call this "real", and when small percentage percieve something, we call it illusion. Useful for all practical purposes, but worth understanding that it's a human concept.

[@Peakfreud]

@@technomage6736 "When a enough agree it becomes real "- Techno Mage Well said my friend.

[@chrismaupin]

Over time, I've learned there are a handful of topics that are so very deeply held for most people. These topics are so sensitive that even questioning them will trigger most people. (1) Freewill - the idea that you might not really be in control of yourself, your thoughts or your choices (2) Being unique and distinct from other humans. People are strongly resistant to overwhelming evidence that they are, largely, predictable and non-mysterious. (3) Self-agency. People get really triggered by the idea that they might not actually know what is best for themselves. Wonder if other people have noticed these along the way.

[@kabirchoudhary1359]

bro this is THE EGO

[@danielharris9403]

Determinism is a choice while free will is determined; to successfully decipher the two is to differentiate imagination from perception, which are both ultimately the same.

[@gstylez0107]

Free will doesn't exist. We are cogs. Environmental factors determine every choice we make. The universe is a series of cause and effect. This comment I'm writing was already determined once a specific arrangement of atoms flung in a specific direction towards a specific well of gravity at the very first moments of the universe..

[@danielharris9403]

@@gstylez0107 So it is predetermined that Nothing is the Something that comes from Nothing? I'd rather think electromagnetism has the Free-Will to make that choice.

[@gstylez0107]

@@danielharris9403 What are you talking about? Electromagnetism? Nobody is arguing whether natural forces have free will.. You're talking about the free will of god/the universe, that is not the classic argument of determinism. The argument is whether or not concious beings posess free will. Not whether god himself or the universe has it.. We don't even know god exists, we only know that we exist and our own conciousness is the only thing we can be certain of. We either have free will to change the course of our reality OR we do not and our choices are influenced by the environmental forces imposed upon us.. THAT is the arguement. So whatever gibberish you're on about sounds like nonsense to me..

[@markberman6708]

Looks fascinating. Free will is what makes the probabilities real. Real for all sentient beings across our universe.

[@kevinswan4418]

God is chained to his word

[@trishasuttles]

This is just my opinion, but I feel like they're making "free will" too much of a HUMAN entity. We're NOT human beings with a soul, or spirit, but we're spiritual beings with a human body. "free will" is not a humanistic right to make a choice, it's a "spiritual choice". This is why the person isn't aware of the choice until after brain activity, because our spiritual selves are the ones who control the "free will" not the human ego.

[@Itsnotthatserious2023]

Yes, that is the truth.

[@barbarafitzpatrick]

Agree god gave us free will so choice then makes our decisions good or bad

[@toddhouck9041]

Cool. Prove it.

[@zzzpqd]

Todd Houck prove the existence of Spiritual life. The entire point is that we are more than the sum of our parts. Scientific proof is not necessary in spiritual reality.

[@toddhouck9041]

I don't have to prove anything. The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. If you make the claim that we have a "spiritual self" than the burden of proof is on you to support that claim. And since the scientific method is the only reliable means we as humans have to distinguish fact from fiction it must be used. Furthermore, if the scientific method cant be used, then my friend, your claim is bullshit.

[@foxyrage4304]

This has always been a struggle for me finding a middle ground in theology with free will.

[@Peakfreud]

Like wise. I'm always skeptical and distrustful Of those who claim to know the unknown.

[@justincredible.]

A "god" who knows everything, even before you know it and made a devine plan (long before we all existed) leaves *NO* space for a free will!

[@MrFlameRad]

@@justincredible. not necessarily. If you break out of a linear understanding of time, and a material understanding of consciousness, it's possible for free will and determinism to coexist. I'll explain if someone replies with such a request. Something I've thought about for some time.

[@hansdampf4120]

If you asume god is all-knowing and timeless, free will and theology can easily coexist. There is only a problem if you asume you are the only one who knows your thoughts or god is restricted by time.

[@youaresomeone3413]

There absolutely 100% is no such thing as free will in this life, if we had free will there would be no rules no laws no regulations and no punishments, we wouldn't be trapped in the body bound to earth if there was free will. We ONLY have choices, do we have free will to choose? Sure but even the free will in choosing is limited because the choices are presented to us.

[@thestruggleisreal9626]

Choices are by dent of prior causes but choices themselves can be causes in neurological change... well yea... but that just shifts the problem over by one event. The reason why this seems like an issue at all is all in the way we're using the word "I" or "you." We tend to be very good at not realizing that our minds are also part of the causal stream. There's no "you," the observer, that can step outside of determinism... as even your understanding and critical thinking surrounding the nature of determinism or consciousness is indeed deterministic. The answer to why free will seems so backwards at the level of our intuition will ultimately come down to breaking through this seeming "hard problem" of consciousness realizing that our confusion is entirely a natural recursive error of self-awareness's awareness of self. Consciousness is simply what it's like to be this particular deterministic force of nature, and the universe doesn't much care what we feel ourselves to be...

[@star_1_man214]

Each of us has a "decision maker", know as free will, which makes us responsible for each decision, good or bad! Hopefully learning to make better choices with each choice!

[@dannyvalastro2974]

There is no fucking free will do you have a choice who you are born of you were born Hitler you would have made the same choices he made and killed 6 million people

[@jasonreidinger4574]

That's a pretty emotional response I would think an intelligent creator wouldn't feel that way about himself. Assuming he's in the driver's seat. If it's not you then who could it be better yet why

[@jasonreidinger4574]

Oh and Free Will is given once born just like Adolf Hitler wasn't born a dictator either

[@star_1_man214]

@@dannyvalastro2974 I can't believe you are making an excuse for Hitler's atrocities? Oh, the devil made me do it! No, that sick f#ck did make a decision to kill 6 million people! To blame anything or anyone else is just ignorant!

[@star_1_man214]

@@jasonreidinger4574 Was he was born with a shitty mustache and just decided to keep it? Did you you decide to write this stupidity or were you just born this way?

[@dosomething3]

3:47 - “Why spend years studying free will”? Answer : shut up and take the money 💰.

[@blanketsfordogs6358]

scientists are paid to be clever not right

[@hollylynnoverin6126]

Yes, especially for the reptillian part of our brains.

[@blaineellifritz1630]

@fynes leigh €

[@futuraguysuntzuphilosophy7181]

It’s nice to see some people are already bought and paid for! #sarcasm

[@thomasridley8675]

@@blanketsfordogs6358 They are paid to do both.

[@yoginipatrice7992]

"Free Will' is a human construct in this 3D reality. In higher dimensions there is no time.

[@stormysampson1257]

What has created your hypothesis, Yogini? There is no time in 'higher dimensions'?

[@yoginipatrice7992]

@@stormysampson1257 Yes, time as we know it (linear) does not exist outside this dimension. I learned this from my OBE in 2013 and have since confirmed it with my research and studies. Quantum physicists support this notion. It's rather mind-boggling!

[@stormysampson1257]

@@yoginipatrice7992 O=? B=? E=? Overcome by Events? PTSD? We humans only are able to exist in 3-D. I don't think nature wasted any resources for humans to be able to imagine or see or know another dimension. I am glad you think it is all rather mind-boggling because I do as well!

[@stormysampson1257]

Do you know about time dilation from Earth to Space and Distance? Time slows as we LEAVE EARTH. So very many hard fiction novels deal with this FACT. Fascinating stuff. You leave you come back to earth looking no older than you looked when you left and all your friends, family look 20 or 30 years OLDER and/or DEAD. One is able to SEE the clocks slow down the further one gets from this planet.

[@yoginipatrice7992]

@@stormysampson1257 OBE= Out of Body Experience. Yes, our human bodies can only exist in 3-D but we are only humans temporarily. We are spirit beings (electromagnetic plasma) and that is our real self. We (our spirit) never dies.

[@Nasreddiin]

Free will? Yes! Free intention instead. But not freely acting and realizing. The real world is full of constraints...

[@cmvamerica9011]

I always like how people are so sure about their assumptions.

[@johnmason6106]

My problem with some of these researchers exactly

[@secullenable]

Especially the theologians, LOL

[@leocarbaugh5074]

I wish I could like it.

[@garycohen2347]

By def of the very word assumption , wouldn’t one #have to Be sure??, …else what would an Assumption be ?? How ya gonna Writhe and wiggle out of that one ??

[@nonprogrediestregredi1711]

@@garycohen2347 Well, in this context, there's the caveat to the definition of "assumption", which is that the belief is accepted without demonstrable evidence or proof. I believe the initial commenter was attempting to say that people will conflate assumptions with knowledge; I do not assert knowledge of their comment, however this is my assumption.

[@cyrusmuduroglu5114]

The Self is an illusion, therefore so is free will. What we are is actually the entire universe, the whole universe is one variable, not seperate entities. When we realize everything is one, we stop suffering, the illusion of the ego is what creates our feeling of free will, but if you within yourself, you can see that you don't even control your thoughts, everything is happening effortlesley and you are that effortless awareness. Awareness if not making choices it is just one big flowing happening. Does a river have free will? Anyways, once we figure out who Will is and how to free him everything should be alright.

[@trishasuttles]

Makes sense, I feel you put it in even better perspective than I have.

[@luciferchrist8587]

@Expose the cult of church of christ I like your moniker...I belong to the Church Of Verification, so once it's verified well believe it. However Cyrus Muduroglu typed in pretend knowledge...you know liken...I don't have the solution and must have one or I'm gonna go crazy...so they make it up...gibberish complete gibberish.

[@steveschwartz6450]

{9}oao>ík>o>

[@recyclespinning9839]

So when a person makes a decision to kill, is that just the universe flowing? When a jumbo jets pulls up and fuels up with 35,000 gallons of fuel and spews out tons of pollution that's just all natural flow of the universe an we shouldn't worry about it??

[@cyrusmuduroglu5114]

@@recyclespinning9839 Yes, it is the just the universe harming itself, if we realized we were all the universe, none of these problems would occur in the first place. We would not need more, there would only be compassion.

[@geneshimandle1]

Free will and destiny much like the chase of yin following yang around a circle of this human experience seeking our spiritual oneness, we will find the I that is we when we arrive at the beginning and know it for the first time. Love the journey.

[@UIgnorantprick]

Allan wats would have a thing or two to say about it 😂😂😂

[@tiffsaver]

P.S. I can't very well leave any site without leaving a comment... it's in my DNA. So at the tender age of 74, here's my take on the discussion. First, I've studied just about every philosophy from Christianity to Buddhism to even Scientology (yes, I'll try practically anything to get at the truth). But the ONE THING I've taken away from every religion and philosophy is this: People will always gravitate to the one they feel has the most revelance to them, regardless of the consequences. But the only ones that I feel are truly powerless are the ones born into certain religious groups, who have no real ability to simply decide for themselves, like myself. That's why I believe that Buddhism may come closer to this ideal than any other I have explored, reason being the one provided in this exquisite podcast - they simply believe that if something has worth it should be shared, but not forced or mandatory. For example, in the Christian tradition I was raised in, there is absolutely no room for any other religion or philosophy whatsoever. It's either, "my way, or the highway." Using Jesus as their icon of choice, if you don't believe in Him, you're going to spend eternity in a very hot place, which leaves quite a lot of humanity, ironically, out in the cold. I have found the use of this high-handed belief system to be the exact antithesis of "Free Will," and in fact, the death of anything resembling it. This is the precise definition of "Religious Superiority," which I cannot countenance under any circumstance. Also endemic in the practice of Abrahamic religions, like Islam and Christianity, is that active "conversion of the masses" is not only welcomed but encouraged, and as history serves, often at the end of a sword or rifle butt. In my estimation, this kind of behavior is unexcuseable, which is why I left all organized religion to follow my own path. Anyhow, that's my Two Cents. Anyone else care to share their thoughts?

[@bikeboy6674]

Re: the hypnosis section - It's extremely dubious to draw scientific conclusions based upon the behaviour of test subjects who are ASSUMED to be under a state of hypnosis. That's just not good scientific practice. Same with those ice-water tests. There are too many variables to control for which could strongly influence the pain-resistance of the test subjects and give very different results.

[@johnlombardo7816]

I was thinking the same thing although it made for a good section of the video..but it shows how one sided some people's minds are. They actually think that when they manipulate someone that that has some other causal effect than mind control!

[@williepearl1412]

W E

[@williepearl1412]

John Lombardo I am

[@frankmoser6251]

Well first off you'd have to be compliant and cooperative to be "hypnotized" ( it WON'T work on unwilling subjects).... Those old movies that show people "controlling" other people's minds are just fiction.... Second once IN the "hypnotic" state one basically becomes a completely "malleable" consciousness ...meaning they are completely susceptible to outside manipulation( ever see those shows where the hypnotist actually makes people act like a dog or crow like a rooster,etc) apparently an effective tool for curbing habits suvh as smoking..drinking....lying...stealing....etc..... But it would have no other cause and effect than ANY other possibility within either ( hypnotized and hypnotist) actual range of possible outcomes...it would STILL be "fate" not to mention the hypnotized will NEVER become a dog in reality so far ONLY the perception of their reality would be changed ( NOT their reality itself)..... It WILL be inevitably apparent in the future as time reveals ALL TRUTH....however we will NEVER have "FREE WILL" and NOT EVEN freedom of choice because everything has a predetermined number of possible outcomes for EVERY single "experience" within their existence....this number is based upon a myriad of variables that certainly COULD be calculated by a stronger intelligence because it WILL ALWAYS be a limited number therefore "contained" within a predetermined parameter of THIS reality...... Even the "BIG g bang" was a REACTION from the one BEFORE it ....the ever expanding universe supports this theory....at the point its mass ( weight) become to great for it's infrastructure the universe( theoretically) will stop expanding and actually begin imploding into itself and the "contraction" phase would begin. ...all the way until everything within THIS universe is smashed together into a PERFECT molecule of singularity...at that very instant of perfection it CANNOT be maintained and BaNg it ALL starts over AGAIN lol....NOTHING CAN happen by chance...everything is constantly reacting to ANOTHER REACTION lol....even the universe we came FROM and exist within is NOT free....so how can anything within claim to be?...lol

[@NotAPacifist825]

@@frankmoser6251 and here i thought hypnosis was completely fake.

[@Irisphotojournal]

Can't make my mind up about this.!

[@sarahsimmons76]

Like you had a choice 🤣

[@thesavantart8480]

@Thomas Annulis Determinism rules!

[@tomsawyer4776]

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of truth. 2 Titus 3:7

[@ProphecyOfAlice]

Because each person holds their own true story, which is not the same as truth

[@yourkingdomcomeyourwillbedone]

It’s actually 2 Timothy 3:7

[@brandonbagwell7676]

I love this channel. I would love nothing more than to drink whiskey with Robert Kuhn and talk about theological misotheism after watching this episode.

[@Elazar40]

"Choice," is only relative to choosing. Choice, in terms of spirit & Consciousness, is not a consumer option between two brands. This type of choosing, is the false choice - an incorrect reference point for understanding true choice. The true Choice, is to Choose Life over death - the blessing over the curse. It is in Man's failure to choose, entropy, chaos & death ensue. The "experiment" is us. The complexity of argument over this topic, has obfuscated the simplicity by which spiritual concepts may be known & understood.

[@jonathanfrancis109]

Well said. The elegance of both you and Pete's comments are paired perfectly with your handles.

[@soubhikmukherjee6871]

RLK is an amazing person ❤. Much respect 👏🙏

[@TheFos88]

Great discussion. Thanks for having it in here.

[@loturzelrestaurant]

Have you seen 'The Fall of Doctor Who' by Jay Exci? Even if your not a D.Who-Fan, you should give i t a try, cause it talks about Writing Techniques and Logic and more stuff.

[@TheFos88]

@@loturzelrestaurant er... I mean I am a fan of The Doctor, but what I'm the world does this have to with what I commented? Lol

[@loturzelrestaurant]

@@TheFos88 Randomness makes Life Spicey, i say.

[@TheFos88]

@@loturzelrestaurant I can't argue with that. Can I have a menu?

[@loturzelrestaurant]

@@TheFos88 Sure! But without knowing your preferances (you may tell me) i can only make 'generally good' Recommendations. Stuff that many enjoy but in all cases are not the 'Rank 1' (cause recommending the literally most known thing of each Genre would be redundant).

[@ddandrews6472]

Robert said(I somewhat paraphrase), "This means our brain is making the decision, not us". That statement only makes sense Robert believes in(or self convinced) a self outside the brain. If the brain is you, then there is no you other than the feeling of you outside the body. This takes back to the consciousness question(whether it is an illusion or the subject you is real). Basically, freewill debate or exploration can wind up as the question of consciousness in the end. If the consciousness exists, then we may have to accept that the freewill exists as a blanket statement or some level or instances of freewill exists.

[@alchemicalheart248]

The experiment at 45:00 instructs the client to intend one way and change to the opposite at the specified time. I wish that instead they had told them to have an intention until the last split second where they may or may not receive a cue to decide whether to change your mind (and after indicate whether they had changed her mind or not).

[@danniealexander4131]

I was also thinking that was a weird phase of the experiment that I didnt quite get. They're just telling them to change their mind but it wasn't a mind change if it's a prior plan.

[@frankmoser6251]

At the very instant you'd agree to ANY "experiment" your (presumed) "FREE WILL" would be completely compromised anyhow....you'd be doing someone else's "WILL" to achieve a measurable and desirable result.....but even THAT TOO would be the reactionary result from ANOTHER predetermined "action" that led to the question at hand in the first place....so NO "FREE WILL" could EVER exist within THIS reality....for EVEN the universe itself is STILL "reacting" to the big bang" ( original event) that brought THIS reality into existence....the FACT that it is STILL expanding supports this FACT ( but even if it were contracting instead it would STILL be the inevitable result of the original "bang")..... And thus therefore EVERYTHING within it CANNOT" act" outside of this event....meaning ALL actions are just REACTIONS to the original "event" ( presumably big bang).... However the "big bang" itself was ALSO a REACTION to another predetermined and inevitable occurrence of so much mass that equalled so much weight of t actually couldn't support itself further and so began to collapse and implode into itself .....as it got smaller it gained momentum and thus gravity itsekf....eventually becoming a "singularity" or molecule that would be almost microscopic BUT contain everything within the universe ...at which point it could contract NO further and BaNG...it ALL starts over until the universe expands to the point it can NO longer support it's mass ( weight) at which point it will begin to implode and contract....NOW WHAT was the original "act"?..... Who knows.... Chicken or egg....either way ONE will ALWAYS" cause" the OTHER.....therefore NO FREE action WILL EVER BE within THIS reality of existence PERIOD....

[@Dismythed]

I noticed that after Robert's interview with Thalia, when the two scientists were interviewed together, Thalia really wanted to dominate the discussion and Peter was choosing to hold back to keep the peace because he chooses peace. I found it very interesting that Thalia does not believe in free will and coincidentally lacks self-control and tries to control others while, inversely, Peter controls himself and makes conscious decisions that allows her choices to matter, as well as his own when his choices are being limited by her carelessness. He chooses not to let it control his feelings or decisions. after interviewing Thalia and Thalia and Peter together, Peter then exercised his free will to answer Robert's questions apart from Thalia's controlling influence.

[@jamespaternoster7354]

Being more forthright of her opinion doesn’t mean she lacks self control and even if she lacks self control it’s all biochemical ultimately! His desire to not have conflict is just his manner which itself is his biology interacting with environmental determinism.

[@Dismythed]

And that ^^^, ladies and gentlemen, is how you recontextualize to maintain a delusion.

[@jamespaternoster7354]

@@Dismythed not sure what your getting at here politely but. The deterministic nature of the world is so painfully obvious, the evidence that the working of our brain are also determined is also vast. Indeterminism aka randomness isn’t control or freedom. Our environment is broadly deterministic on every level. Contra causal free will makes no contact with empirical and scientific evidence or reality. Free will is just an elaborate illusion. Even the basic fact that our brain structure and genetic factors are determined is just one example, that shows the power and reach of deterministic forces on everything and everyone.

[@jamespaternoster7354]

@@Dismythed not sure what your getting at here politely but. The deterministic nature of the world is so painfully obvious, the evidence that the working of our brain are also determined is also vast. Indeterminism aka randomness isn’t control or freedom. Our environment is broadly deterministic on every level. Contra causal free will makes no contact with empirical and scientific evidence or reality. Free will is just an elaborate illusion. Even the basic fact that our brain structure and genetic factors are determined is just one example, that shows the power and reach of deterministic forces on everything and everyone.

[@jackdolah2031]

"TIME IS A FLAT CIRCLE"

[@m_christine1070]

Our reality is two dimensional. WE are flat.

[@playpaltalk]

Obviously that questioning free will reinforce the facts that free will is very powerful and real.

[@redriver6541]

I've always thought that if the universe is mathematically quantifiable from the singularity forward.....there is no such thing as free will. The universe is evolving according to the rules set about from the beginning. Maybe I'm wrong, but if you can do the math (no matter how ridiculously difficult or complex) then it is all unfolding in a predetermined manner.

[@sopanmcfadden276]

I agree with you that fate would have to go back to singularity but it's more mathematics than could be recorded by mankind. Is something material if we can't calculate it?

[@DCronk-qc6sn]

So, we can enjoy the ride or invent gawd. I like the ride - take the pressure off and it is quite pleasant.

[@georgebernstein12]

But what allowed gravity to kick start the Big Bang?

[@DCronk-qc6sn]

@@georgebernstein12 Agency may not be required.

[@SiEmG]

welcome to determinism

[@Brian.001]

I need to remind myself that when Americans call someone an 'associate professor', what they really mean is not much more than a teaching assistant.

[@cjsligojones5101]

10:22 there's no way this guy has free will...that would mean that he actually chose to wear that shirt.

[@jonchappel7763]

That is God damn funny

[@crisbycris4012]

He sounds french

[@Brian.001]

@@crisbycris4012 German!!! :-D

[@allistairneil8968]

Excellent comment, however he is German, so he doesn't have too much free will.

[@RIMJANESSOHMALOOG]

Cristina Sonia isRAeli

[@deepshikhabanerji9732]

Free will is the key to consciousness and the mind body problem. Unraveling free will might give us the answer.

[@primovid]

Maybe you should try to tackle simpler questions first, like whether an entry door is pushed or pulled open (2:27)

[@tagaway6173]

Good catch!

[@lighthousecharlie6712]

😂

[@primovid]

@- GREENCREEPR ​Is it really an entry door that needs to be pulled from the outside or an exit door that needs to be pushed from the inside? That's a deep philosophical question

[@orlandopammit6216]

A very NOVEL DEVELOPMENT not only in UNDERSTANDING REALITY AS A WHOLE but more ESPECIALLY IN UNDERSTANDING our VERY OWN EXISTENCE as HUMANS through combining the capacities of both SCIENCE and PHILOSOPHY.

[@stillclouds]

@@primovid I think as humans we are the hinges that limit the potential of the doors to be revolving and only want it to be one way or the other and cannot grasp the infinity amount of options that could be.

[@gunterstrubinsky9452]

Have you considered Parallel multiverses? That solves the question since every action is taken simultaneously, we are just in the universe that followed a certain path up to the current situation, while there are many other universes, one in which we took 2 years ago a right turn instead of a left turn and came to a store where we bought a lottery ticket and we won, etc. But that's a different branch which the current I was not part of. IOW. we do have free will since the current position in the multiverse is the result of everything that happened prior although there exist infinite future universes from here on. The path from the big bang to right now is carved in stone since we are here, the future already contains all possible outcomes and of current single I there exist infinite future s in which we made different decission and places this single I in the next universe (although there exists simultaneously one in which we acted the opposite) . as an example: take 10,000 people, each tosses a coin. Those who tossed head stay, those who tossed tail go away. There is a statistical probability that there are after the 10th toss still people left. Each of them tossed 10 consecutive times head. Does that mean, they had the capabilities to toss 10 times head? No, they are in their position because they tossed 10 times head or they were out. Even though the probability is 1/(2~10), it's not the special person but the person is the result of past tosses that 'chose' him/her. So the past marks their current position. If the player tosses another time the chances for the future are still open as 1/2. Nothing changed.

[@rimckd825]

fringethought?

[@andresvillarreal9271]

This whole interpretation of the lag in the signal of the EEG, compared with the time when a signal is detected in the muscle, is a red herring. As an electrical engineer, I can tell you that there are a gazillion explanations for this lag that have nothing to do with consciousness or free will. The simplest of these explanations is that we just don't have the technology or understanding to be able to place the electrodes in the right place, so we are by necessity measuring the last of a chain of events, which produces a measurable electrical current on the outside of the skull, and not the very clump of neurons that make the "decision" to move the muscle. This is like when you try to find a water leak. You know when the ugly stains appeared on your wall, but you have no idea of when or where the pipe broke.

[@erickarsch6743]

Exactly. All the delay measures is the time it takes for a conscious, free will decision to process through biometrics.

[@thomasrebotier1741]

You got the delay wrong. The peak predates conscious report, so if there is an even earlier cause it will predate conscious report by an even larger delay.

[@andresvillarreal9271]

@@thomasrebotier1741 The brain is not a digital computer, in which you can clearly see a signal going from 0 to 1 or viceversa. You see a voltage that increases gradually until it is enough to be discerned from the background noise. You don't know how far inside the brain the real signal came from, and you don't have a wire transmitting the signal you want all the way from the place it is produced to your electrocardiograph. Those who want to use these studies to do some philosophy like to pretend that the measurements in the EEG are perfect in both specificity and precision but what they do not say is that they are far from perfect. I can bet with you that in the actual data there is no perfect change of voltage that is so clear that any neurosurgeon can see the EEG and show the place with a finger. Those graphs are an incredibly simplistic measurement of one of the most complicated things in the known universe. And even if they get better measurements in the new experiments, with no skull between the brain and the electrodes, the basic problem persists: you are trying to measure the nuance of a fine painting with a ruler.

[@thomasrebotier1741]

​@@andresvillarreal9271 Try a bit harder :) The detectable signal from the EEG starts about 550 ms before movement. The subject indicates his earliest awareness of deciding the movement at 250 ms before movement. We conclude that the detectable signal starts 300 ms before awareness. You say correctly that the actual neural activity could have been anterior to the EEG. That would only increase the 300 ms. If you want to question that experiment result you should rather say that the reporting of awareness cannot be instantaneous. Now, keep in mind that the design tries to eliminate that issue by asking the subject to compare two inner states : (1) his awareness of deciding the movement, with (2) his awareness of the position of the hands on the clock. Presumably, this should prevent any error in identifying the time at which the decision is made.

[@andresvillarreal9271]

@@thomasrebotier1741 Exactly where did you find the signal-to-noise ratio in that signal? Exactly where did you find the reliability measures for the 550 ms measurement? Did you read the actual published article, instead of the non-scientific reports on the press? Have you actually seen the output of an EEG? Do you know the electrical modeling of the signal that is supposed to be the signal sent to the muscle or any signal that may be associated with consciousness? What you will see is that in reality, the signal that might show a signal to the muscle or a signal of conscious thought are a twitch in the Fast Fourier Transform graph of the electrical signal or the combination of several measurements that will sometimes show a signal and sometimes not. This is not even close to a slam dunk, like something that I might see in a computer, where some signals are totally, absolutely relatable to a clear conclusion.

[@godthecreatoryhvh681]

Freewill it's just Great.