Jill Tarter & Douglas Vakoch - Where Are All Those Aliens?

[@karelvandervelden8819]

The vastness of space (time) isolates us from possible similar lifeforms like ours. Speed of light is a slow phenomenon on the scale of our surroundings.

[@kevinmcfarlane2752]

1 There is time dilation but it implies a one-way trip. 2 You assume there are no more laws of physics to discover. E.g., is warping spacetime possible or not? If it is possible are there constraints on that too. E.g., 10x speed of light is still cosmically slow, unless advanced civilisations are very common among the nearest stars.

[@karelvandervelden8819]

@@kevinmcfarlane2752 Yes, if other physics (wormholes, curved space) are applicable things will change the current reality. As a little boy my schoolteacher said; ¨if the sky falls down we will all have blue blouses.¨

[@Evolutiontweaked]

“I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.” Douglas Adams

[@hellboundrubber4448]

Without ignorance you won't gain understanding. You don't get smarter everyday, just less stupid.

[@RWin-fp5jn]

Thumbs up!! Jill and Douglas gave us a very intelligent overview of the aspect of potential colonization and you raised very well formulated comments and questions. Colonization is far less speculative then it sounds relative to the almost impossible event of life originating 100% autonomously (as per Drake formula). So a nice thing to add, may be the potential drive for colonization; Penrose and Hameroff present an excellent case for human consciousness being the result of quantum coherence and quantum effects in cell based microtubiles. Now IF this is the case, then this opens the door to entanglement which opens the door of spacetime independent connectivity of human consciousness. A lot of 'ifs' , but it would explain any strong drive to erect colonies at other spacetime places in order to magnify the potential of such instant shared human consciousness, relative to other species. And likely it also may establish some need to keep outpacing seeded civilizations in check as to not hurt the collective. Which may include injecting non-friendly self-destructive events locally from time to time as we are witnessing now. But then again. Maybe we ARE just alone...

[@JJJJ-gl2uf]

These episodes on the possibility of alien life are always too short. I could easily listen for hours to a continuation of the discussion with these scientists.

[@toreoft]

Aliens are probably to intelligent to want to do any of the things we consider fantastic.

[@herrrmike]

Once technology starts developing, it advances so fast that by the time a civilization is ready to explore the cosmos, it’s tech resembles nothing like what we currently expect. My suspicion is that a sufficiently advanced civilization becomes indistinguishable from the background noise of the universe.

[@sSunny__Jim]

These zoom ins are great..

[@Cognitiveleaper]

Jill and Vak have told me nothing.

[@Mentaculus42]

That is not totally the case. As someone who had a direct view inside of SETI V1.0 when it was under NASA, it appears that SETI is yet again trying to “reinvent” themselves to maintain pseudo-relevancy and thus a possible path to further funding.

[@bird401]

Who has told you something about this? What did they tell you? How reliable did you find what they told you?

[@rooryan]

I see why you might get that impression, but Jill makes a good point that our civilization has barely explored the solar system, let alone our galaxy. I know this channel is full of wild speculation, in a good way, but sometimes it’s better to take a step back and acknowledge how little we truly know about alien life and alien technology

[@louisbullard6135]

I agree and don’t want to sound negative but I think that the distances between the stars is just too great for anything meaningful to be discovered. Traveling at the speed of light and then coming in for a grand landing onto earth seems very unlikely. I know that I don’t know but wish I did know but I know that I probably will never know!!!!! Umm😢

[@niclasnyberg4173]

They said our tech is underdeveloped and we've barely looked. Considering the scale of space a few decades of looking is nothing. Edit, also the navy seems to see something so maybe seti is looking in the wrong place with the wrong equipment

[@MrSanford65]

One of the questions would be how would aliens from a distant galaxy share human consciousness ? If there are aliens from other planets, that proves that consciousness is universal and perhaps fundamental in the universe.

[@tschorsch]

It does not prove that consciousness is fundamental. It may prove that evolution can cause consciousness to emerge under certain circumstances, It seems more like a property only of very complex systems that can perform certain tasks.

[@MrSanford65]

@@tschorsch but if evolution did exist, it would have to be so precise that the chances that an alien would be conscious on another planet in a way close to ours is zero because not only would they have to be conscious, the consciousness would have to be synchronized to our consciousness for us to even know each other- plus the accompanying body plan would have be the same . There is evidence that a tree or plant is conscious in a certain way, but I doubt if a tree could fly itself to the moon. I don’t believe materialist can have it both ways and say that consciousness is a product of the planet earth, yet it could be exactly replicated on another planet.

[@lakevacm]

At the southern border. Oh, you mean extraterrestrials? The only ones that landed concluded that they wouldn’t be able to do anything to help us with our emotional problems and left. Who knows, they might come back. If they do, I hope they land at Farragut Square on a weekday around lunch hour long enough for the news trucks to cover them.

[@lordemed1]

Pretty simple...they checked us out from afar and said, 'no thanks.'

[@brothermine2292]

They haven't yet finished preparing the cookbook.

[@tschorsch]

Maybe we're already their factory farm and we don't even know it.

[@Mentaculus42]

Or the colonization utilization protocol!

[@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC]

*"They haven't yet finished preparing the cookbook."* ... Was that a _"To Serve Man"_ Twilight Zone reference?

[@brothermine2292]

@@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC : Yes. Unless it was a reference to the story "To Serve Man" by Damon Knight. Or to The Simpsons' "Treehouse of Horror" segment "Hungry Are The Damned."

[@brothermine2292]

@@dianneforit5409 : Do you mean "How to Cook for Forty Humans and Then Eat Them"? Those books ought to have dust jackets.

[@kylebowles9820]

lol Jill didnt interview too well here. She had one point and Robert struggled to get anything else out of her. The guy came in clutch at the end tho

[@jmanj3917]

I like her approach to this supposed paradox! Go Bluejays!!

[@tompowers7827]

Why assume that alien intelligence is like ours? What if they operate within time in a fundamentally different way than we do? Much faster, they would zoom by before we noticed. Would any civilization capable of interstellar travel recognize us as intelligent? I have very little concern or awareness of the insects in my backyard.

[@bowieupland6112]

That's because you lack curiosity.

[@tompowers7827]

@@bowieupland6112 Hahah! You know me so well!

[@bowieupland6112]

@@tompowers7827 The things you're write, tell me who you are.

[@tompowers7827]

@@bowieupland6112 Your grammar tells me something about you.

[@bowieupland6112]

@@tompowers7827 You've found a typo? Good for you, here's your medal 🎖

[@oregonsbragia]

Yes. I can say “they are not here.”

[@tschorsch]

Assuming there are some very advanced civilizations in the galaxy, there could be numerous reasons why we don't see them. 1. They know were here and they think we're way too primitive sociologically to contact. Humanity hasn't figured out how to live with itself. We have too many superstitious ideologies. We cannot live with each other without having war. Very few of our societies even try to create an equitable system so that everyone within that society has a decent life. We have the technology but due to selfishness we cannot solve our climate change fiasco. 2. Interstellar travel is probably really hard and expensive. Except for nearby stars, it could take lifetimes to achieve, such that interstellar travelers would never see anyone who wasn't traveling with them again. The psychological cost would be great. 3. Nobody is going to be dumb enough to broadcast their position without knowing a lot more about what is out there. They would send out vessels and probes with the primary intention of finding out what is out there before they decide to communicate. Assuming that they want to have contact with other species, they would still want to interact only with ones that were peaceful enough to coexist with them. Mankind is definitely not there yet. 4. Intelligent life is more rare than we thought. It took 4.5 billion years for earth to get there. Maybe the vast majority of planets where life evolves have some sort of cataclysmic event which life there before it can evolve far enough. Maybe 99% of the time it ends with single cellular life. Even here, had the asteroid that killed the non-avian dinosaurs been much bigger, intelligent life might have never evolved. 5. Maybe a large percentage of intelligent species cannot help but blow themselves up or destroy their ecosystem because they cannot figure out how to get along with each other. 6. Colonization is probably a lot slower and a lot harder than we think. There are probably no planets out there that we can just populate without terraforming them. Any planet that already has life is probably hostile to us, at least chemically. We would have to bring earth biology and ecosystem wherever we go. 7. Advanced societies may not be as driven to physically colonize as primitive ones. They may create paradises without poverty and population growth issues. They may do a lot of remote exploring, but are never driven to conquer the galaxy. Even when they do colonize, it may be slow and deliberate, valuing stability over growth. 8. Advanced societies may go virtual creating their own paradises that they can bounce around in.

[@simonhibbs887]

I think it's likely that interstellar travel is a lot, lot harder than many people appreciate. The distances and energies involved are so huge, they are very difficult for our minds to imagine or reason about.

[@Mentaculus42]

Or the usual progression is to evolve into something that is nonbiological and …

[@elonever.2.071]

*3. Nobody is going to be dumb enough to broadcast their position without knowing a lot more about what is out there.* Except us humans. We have been sending signals out into space for decades. If they have come to visit us they probably see that we are a warring planet that exploits and kills each other. We are also disease ridden so there may not be a good reason to chance an epidemic upon their vessel.

[@joaogrande8846]

@@simonhibbs887 Most people do not assume interstellar travel is easy... but it may only be "hard" from OUR point of view.

[@Rob_who]

Without SETI why don't we leave it up to all the critics to do the job and see how they go

[@Silverpintoo]

We can’t get away from our anthropomorphism.

[@Jonnygurudesigns]

First! Also, firstly we need to ask ourselves with what tools we would be able to see so called aliens out in the abyss...??

[@simonhibbs887]

We could detect electromagnetic radiation such as radio frequency emissions, laser transmissions, gamma and x-ray bursts, etc. We might observe star occlusions by megastructures. There are potential means. The most plausible is good old radio emissions.

[@William393rd]

I enjoyed Jill’s thoughts on the value of looking for evidence of ETI in our own astronomical backyard. However, both guests are in denial about the growing mound of data from the military and from civilian aviation of objects in our atmosphere performing in ways that cannot be explained by any human technology. These objects are seen in broad daylight by highly trained pilots, are tracked on radar, visualized by infrared targeting pods, and picked up on satellite imaging systems. At a minimum, this fact should pique the curiosity of any scientist. The “distances are too great for interstellar travel” argument is bunk. The proper motion of the sun through the galaxy means that thousands of other star systems have passed within 1 or 2 light years, or less, of ours since the formation of our solar system. Our scientific community’s willful blindness on the UAP issue is stunning. I am a scientist by training and am baffled by this state of affairs.

[@tatendamusesengwa5261]

It baffles me how people have discussions like this and dismiss the UFO phenomenon. We literally have members of the DOD admitting that UFOs are a real phenomenon. Truly baffling

[@bobcabot]

i heard a rumor there is supposed to be a galaxy with better humans somewhere...

[@simonhibbs887]

Apparently it was long ago, and far, far away.

[@edelgyn2699]

😉 Shangri-La

[@dwoopie]

Maybe aliens care about there planet and they are not multiplying and multiplying and multiplying and multiplying and multiplying...like the simple humans do....

[@tschorsch]

And maybe when humanity grows up, it won't be so obsessed with it either.

[@Mentaculus42]

@@tschorsch U think so ¿¡?!

[@miniverse2002]

That's more a life thing. If they were products of evolution we would expect them to reproduce. If they didn't they wouldn't be there.

[@jazzunit8234]

It’s due to our immense limitations in understanding and bias towards thinking we know even an infinitesimal. But what exactly to hypothesise in a universe that predicts almost anything, other than our own immediate, clouded potential.

[@nyttag7830]

They are here homies 🤗

[@henriktroselius6776]

Would be fantastic to hear an interview with Dr Steven Greer

[@edelgyn2699]

'Fantastic' being the operative word.

[@maillardsbearcat]

What if the next closest intelligent conscious being to us is not by distance, but by size. And our planets are just the molecules that make an an entirely alien organism.

[@fjgiie]

B S, that's Jesus talk.

[@chem7553]

I don't believe aliens are here, but this interview still has me annoyed

[@glennsimonsen8421]

Jill Tartar-- Nanotechnology of the Gaps

[@hn5460]

Dr. Jill Tater published her first paper in 1971 and obtained her Ph.D. in 1975, that means she is now 75+ yrs old. How can she still look that young?

[@redshiftdrift]

She's an alien form of life 🤣

[@joaogrande8846]

May have something to do with the money she gets from denying certains things.

[@redshiftdrift]

The "too small to detect" argument does not really work. Atoms and molecules have the same size everywhere in the universe, and a certain number of them is required for any complex system. Independently of technology, small living entities lack the complexity required for intelligence. Large systems are required for survival over large distances, but large systems take more time to develop. That growth is eventually limited by the age of the star that provides the energy for its development. We already see that our computing power no longer grows by Moore's law and our technology is reaching limits. Civilizations end because of limited resources. Life is a rare thing. To develop, our civilization has taken a long time that is a significant fraction of our sun's lifetime. The sun won't last forever. Traveling and surviving across interstellar distances is extremely difficult for both biology and machines, if not simply imposible. Life is very likely out there, but we have to accept that life, like stars, have their limits too.

[@edelgyn2699]

She was referring to alien technology not the aliens themselves!

[@stevedshurley]

Maybe we are giants and aliens are super microscopic

[@docsoulman9352]

They are here and most likely have been for a long time…the truth will out soon enough through disclosure and more…brace yourselves, oh yee skeptics😅

[@DemoDick1]

These people have NO idea.

[@Just-Jakes]

👍 I love seeing people try to talk about this topic who haven't put in the research. 🤦‍♂️

[@joaogrande8846]

@@DemoDick1 Some of them DO have an ideia but deny it. Denial is a very common trait in human psychology.

[@joaogrande8846]

Absolutely.

[@oregonsbragia]

If they are here, then why is it that I have never seen them? Not one single image, video, bone, fossil, relic!! Nothing. Zero evidence.

[@hellboundrubber4448]

I remember the Astronauts commenting on how they were on the Moon's surface looking out into the vastness of Space thinking there's no way we are the only life. Like being on a Desert Island shoreline wondering if there's anyone else on this planet. Impossible.

[@Idlewyld]

Buzz Aldrin said they saw another ship out there

[@bowieupland6112]

What someone thinks and feels is irrelevant. Until we know what the mathematical probability of life is, we're just guessing.

[@hellboundrubber4448]

@@bowieupland6112 Kind of a waste of Universes just for one Planet called Earth. That's what Planets are for right? Life. There are many Suns and they all propagate Life. Not Math, but Science.

[@bowieupland6112]

@@hellboundrubber4448 like I said, what someone feels or thinks is irrelevant. The universe does not have to conform to your wishes and desires.

[@hellboundrubber4448]

@@bowieupland6112 Earth is the only Planet to have life in all the Universes? It's a Sun's job to grow life and a Planet's job to support it. That's pretty evident. Anything else is just feeling and denial.

[@martinpollard8846]

We may be alone.

[@williamvanleuven414]

I have the impression that they did not get to the crux of the paradox. If advanced civilizations were using nanoprobes or the like for colonization or exploration, it's possible that they might use that for discrete observation. But only in a first phase. In a second phase you would want to perform real colonisation with macroscopic probes. Claiming the planet is the ultimate goal. Why else are you doing it for? If you don't do that, you might as well do nothing. That is exactly what the Fermi Paradox is about. There was plenty and plenty of time for that to happen. At least one civilisation would want to colonize, no ?Why haven't we detected any clear signs of such macroscopic probes or their presence yet?

[@garyfrancis6193]

I don’t think there are aliens in our universe. The big question then is why.

[@longcastle4863]

No doubt the aliens took one look at Christianity and Islam and they said, no way, they're a much too violent species.

[@PatchyJay]

Another Jack and Jill bedtime story .

[@Jaggerbush]

Im usually on the rare earth side of this argument but she brought up a good point in passing - there could be a ship the size of The Enterprise sitting out in the open out there near Saturn or Neptune and wed have no idea... even if they were inadvertently broadcasting themselves, I'm sure theyd have cloned or hidden their "air waves".

[@jankoszuta9835]

This conversation could be out of date very soon dependent on what happens in the US Congress. 😅

[@joaogrande8846]

Hahahah, for sure.

[@miroslavsebek3016]

They are in other realities. This reality is fine tuned to us.

[@elonever.2.071]

It could be they live in a different frequency. I have several poltergeists in my place. One moves things without my notice and the other makes noises like dragging something down the hallway. I cannot see them physically but I am aware of their presence.

[@PhilGandFriends]

First of all, I love this series and the job Robert Kuhn does. However, this episode shocked me by the utter stupidity of Jill Tarter's explanation of the Fermi paradox: "Aliens are here, but they are nano-scale."??? If this is the best argument SETI has to offer, better shut it down. (BTW, evolutionary biologist Stephen Jay Gould has written about why humans are the size they are and why we can't be nanoscale)

[@edelgyn2699]

I think you misheard what she said - she was suggesting alien technology might be nanoscale and that's why we hadn't detected it.

[@bivens3ify]

I have never heard Seti talk like this. This sounds serious.

[@msh8816]

1. Maybe they don't want to be detected by humans. 2. How do you know they intended to crash this last mile? Do you assert to know a intelligence greater than yourself, intentions?

[@dnee18]

Her theory isn’t falsifiable.

[@Mentaculus42]

I always wonder if the reason that Earthlings have not “discovered” communication from other “intelligent entities” strongly suggests that due to our theories of quantum mechanics and special relativity being INCOMPLETE (and providing some credence that they are significantly incomplete), that earthlings don’t understand the “rules of communication”. AND because of this, WE are not technologically competent enough to detect the signals! A kinda Star Trek variation on not establishing first contact unless “such and such threshold level of gating technology” has been attained. But in this case it is simply having the understanding of how to build the “higher dimensional brane” communication receiver, or some such “Oojamaflip Thingy”!

[@stevefrompolaca2403]

or maybe coming and seeing what a bunch of f***wits we are as a species they thought better of engaging with us

[@tschorsch]

I think it's more likely that they just don't want to communicate with us. It's naive to think that they would choose to communicate with us based on technological level. That's a meme that's been passed on in sci-fi because it's a lot easier than a real selection criteria, which would be sociological development. Are we mature enough to handle the knowledge of another intelligent species? How much disruption to our society would be caused? How well can we as a species and individually have another intelligent species as neighbor? Do we treat each other well enough to even think that interacting with another species would work? We could be very advance technologically, but still be as xenophobic (as a species, not individually) as we are today.

[@Mentaculus42]

@@tschorsch Let us agree to disagree, as you have missed my point (not your fault) about the implications of a technological threshold criteria because I should not have connected it to a tacky Trekkie Trope that as you note can be misleading. So my fault! What I need to clarify is that it might not be possible to usefully communicate without a more complete unified theory! So it is not a matter of “choice” by any particular intelligent entity, but rather a FUNCTIONAL technology REQUIREMENT. Thank you for pointing out my poor representation of the KEY IDEA.

[@caricue]

I know that everyone wants to believe, but all the evidence says that the trajectory of life and evolution on Earth was an almost infinite series of one-off lucky chances. There's nothing wrong with keeping up the search, but there's also no point in getting our expectations up.

[@khaderlander2429]

An accidental specks of dust in cold and indifferent universe, we just happened to win the lottery, other things had to take a big L

[@dongshengdi773]

Research in quantum mechanics is usually geared toward technology. However, and somewhat surprisingly, there is increasing evidence that nature-an engineer with billions of years of practice-has learned how to use quantum mechanics to function optimally. If this is indeed true, it means that our understanding of biology is radically incomplete. It also means that we could possibly control physiological processes by using the quantum properties of biological matter .

[@abelincoln.2064]

Correction. There is zero evidence .. nature & natural processes can make, operate & improve the simple FUNCTION 13.7 or 4 billion years ago .. or ... quantum functions ... or .. atomic functions ... or molecular functions ... or .. space, time, Laws of Nature, matter or energy ... or .. the simplest function made by Man ( Intelligence). The Function, Intelligence, Mind & Information Categories .. proves ... only an intelligence makes functions because of the information every Function possesses .. especially ... PURPOSE. Only an intelligence .. makes things ... for & with a purpose(information). And only an Intelligence . can extract the purpose (information) ... from a Function made by an intelligence. The Science and fulfilled prophesies from the Jewish Bible ... about the the Jews rejecting the Messiah ... proves God is the Unnatural intelligence .. that made the Universe over 4 days less than 6 x 1000 years ago .... starting Day 1 with empty space (1st Heaven) & Earth .. and .. a very bright light (of energy & matter). By day 4 the bright light had formed all the Stars in the sky (apace) and only then were the Sun & moon made & earth put in its orbit. Time & the Laws of Nature ... began with the Fall of Man (Adam & Eve) less than 6 x 1000 years ago. God had a reason for 6 day creation & the 7th day belongs to him and 1 day is like a year or 1000 years depending on the Prophesy. The current Jewish year is .. 5783 ... but this is deliberately off by 210 years ... because Rabbis did not want a Jew call Yeshua ( Jesus) fulfilling Daniel & Jonah's prophecies that the Messiah will die 40 years before the Temple is destroyed. Jesus died 14 Nisan 30 AD.. The Temple was destroyed 70 AD. The Jews of Jerusalem ... had 40 years to repent their sins and accept God's "Salvation" or Messiah ... otherwise the city will be destroyed. Guess who's returning in the year 6 x 1000? There are no ET's out there. Man is the only intelligence .. in this huge Universe .... created by God knowing that it will only exist for 7 x 1000 years before being destroyed .. and a new Heaven & Earth is made. Smart Christians now know ... Jesus returns in the year 2030 ...or .. 2070. If it is the prior he the next 7 years are the END TIMES .. where over 2 billion will die .... by war, disasters, disease, famine .. & ... a one world government that hates the Jews & Christians and their God. So far so good. C'mon Putin. Prove this is End Times .. and blow up the Ukrainian nuclear power station.

[@caricue]

@@dongshengdi773 Thanks for that excellent addition to the discussion. I always point out to people that science declared life to be "just chemistry" almost two hundred years ago, based on the laboratory synthesis of Urea, and figured all that was needed was to fill in the details of each chemical reaction and life would be understood. Not only has this proved to be insanely complicated in itself, but everyone can see that there is something missing from this formulation. Quantum life is openly talked about now, as you say, and evolution has the incredible advantage over a human engineer in that it doesn't have to understand physics to use even the most subtle and ethereal effects to its own advantage. I also point out that there are 5 or 6 orders of magnitude between a cell and an atom, and we mostly have no access to these levels. I suspect that we humans are not so very smart in the big scheme of things, but since we have no one to compare ourselves to, we can flatter ourselves with how clever we are. An alien super intelligence could really help us get over the hump, or even a truly intelligent AI of our own making. Otherwise we will just have to slog through and do our best with our own limited brain power. Good luck with that!

[@markwrede8878]

I await peer review anywhere. The problem is, should there be an ET meeting or recovery event, the private market and its lobbying interests will obstruct from the public. This has already been certified through the 5412 Directive.

[@simoncardie9371]

Maybe we ARE the aliens.

[@bowieupland6112]

Oooooh, edgy. 😂

[@Carfeu]

“I don’t think” is not a scientific argument

[@doloresabernathy9809]

Unusually good points on the Fermi paradox!. But the comment that aliens wouldn’t crash was flippant … our probes have crashed into Mars and elsewhere. Humans are still killed by wild animals and insects. Advance tech doesn’t make you infallible or invulnerable. But the basic point is we have no idea how to find aliens, only how to find people like us.

[@edelgyn2699]

The comment about aliens crashing isn't flippant. Our probes are stretching the limit of our technical abilities - space exploration is something very new to us.

[@jenniferarnold3960]

It’s too bad most of us will probably not be here any longer, therefore will not be able to experience all this wonderful technology. It would be kind of cool though.

[@jimloth6091]

We can equally say - "where is all that dark matter?" One theory is endorsed - the other, for now, is not.

[@mickeybrumfield764]

It seems rather easy to understand why we have not discovered life elsewhere. We are simply infants just beginning to have the capabilities to reach out and discover other intelligent beings. The real question we should be asking is, why have not other more intelligent and advanced life forms, that surely must exist, not discovered us. They should want to share and reach out to us like one would assume a more advanced and intelligent being would want to do. Like we behave with the other intelligent creatures on our world. Simply, why is no one reaching out to us.

[@sevenlayer8780]

You’re asking the same question, just inverted. They both have the same answer.

[@bozo5632]

There would have to be a motive for colonizing a whole galaxy. I've never heard one proposed that made sense to me. For instance, I dont think humans will ever have a motive to do it.

[@elonever.2.071]

Humans are wasteful in their use of resources and search for technological advances. I see a time where the earth becomes untenable for life either through resource exhaustion or byproduct pollution. It will be a select few that get to colonize off planet and their progeny will continue the effort through genetic adaptation...epigenetics. I do not see a mass emigration of humanity to other planets.

[@jsar5409]

Survival lol. More bases, more spread out, means a greater chance of survival of the species.

[@bozo5632]

@@jsar5409 If survival is the purpose, then colonizing a galaxy is about 200 billion x overkill. That one doesn't make sense to me either. Perhaps because I have thought about it.

[@jsar5409]

@bozo5632 The reason we do anything is survival and the natural human desire to explore.

[@bozo5632]

@@jsar5409 There are millions of things we could do but don't do in the name of survival and exploration. I bet populating the galaxy will be one of them. I bet we will probably eventually attempt an interstellar colony or two. Mostly for the "fun" of it, like climbing Mt. Everest. But the logic that motivates one or two colonies doesn't extend to hundreds let alone hundreds of billions. Imho there can be no economic nor any political model for any large interstellar civilization, earthling, alien, AI or otherwise. Because lightspeed is too slow. (I'll change my mind if FTL happens.) Instead we will populate this solar system, which has effectively unlimited resources. It could sustain quintillions of humans. (But I doubt we'll want quintillions of humans.) And I think 99% of them will live in or near Earth orbit, where internet latency is acceptably low. (Imagine the lag on Mars, let alone the other side of the galaxy.) Once we can live in space without depending on earth's resources, we're pretty safe. A second star wouldn't improve the odds much, but it would introduce new risks - we'd be creating a technological peer ET neighbor that might stop being our friend. That's far more likely to be dangerous than gamma ray bursts. Earthlings concerned with survival might be wise to not permit such a project at all. In a million galaxies, we'd never find a better planet than this one (not because it's so wonderful but because we evolved here). We'll never find a resource in the stars that's worth hauling back home. It's nothing like how humans expanded on Earth. The familiar models and motives do no apply.

[@Loom-works]

Sitting right next to you!

[@andrewmoonbeam321]

Maybe they did come, but it was the worst holiday they ever had.

[@chophop99]

Aliens are quantum in nature. When we attempt to observe them, they do a quantum collapse.

[@dongshengdi773]

Quantum beings are invisible. You have to be a spiritual being to be able to see them ( not with your eyes , of course) but with your consciousness. Even physicists believe that our universe exists in so many dimensions.

[@renko9067]

Did these people not see the news of the congressional hearings?

[@bowieupland6112]

You trust the media and congress? 😅😂😂🤣

[@renko9067]

@@bowieupland6112 Yes, I’m clever enough to navigate it all and I’m not a conspiracy theorist 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@bowieupland6112]

@@renko9067 Conspiracy theorists are winning. 😎 Congressional ufo hearings are an intelligence test, you failed. 😅😂🤣😅😂🤡

[@helisoma]

talk about the navy sightings and the spherical probes seen all over the place

[@gregbrown5020]

They are right here

[@phonetxting101]

Gobbledygook.

[@vaccaphd]

They could hop on rogue planets or big asteroids to find new homes . For instance, to escape supernovas, gamma ray bursts, magnetars, etc, close to their solar system. And, for sure, I wouldn't broadcast my position when I am traveling.

[@Drogers8675]

My understanding is they are already here

[@glennsimonsen8421]

Do tell.

[@Dumprune]

Is Establishment science so blind it doesn't know an alien presence has been here for thousands of years? I guess so.

[@dare-er7sw]

UFOs...

[@khaderlander2429]

Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proofs

[@dare-er7sw]

@@khaderlander2429 No need to ponder on proofs. The UFO phenomena is well known and who are we to judge proof when the universe is so vast and big? There may be advanced life out there, who knows. Even our galaxy is too big for us to comprehend the vast distances between alien civilizations if they are out there.

[@Dumprune]

@@khaderlander2429 The 75 year "truth embargo" is ending. Discloser is on the way.

[@yomommaahotoo264]

We can't even go to the moon without faking it.

[@curious_atoms]

The more they speak using "high-tech" innovation manifested by the internet, the more I realize that technology does not necessarily equate to intelligence. To paraphrase Ghandi: "Intelligent technologically saavy life in the universe? That would be novel."

[@lc2c177]

The fermi paradox suffers from homocentric bias. Would it apply to plasma life forms? Sometimes the rational scientists sounds as whacky as the ideas that fall outside it’s box.

[@miniverse2002]

Sorta has to. I remember hearing that actually silicon based life would just look like a strange arrangement of crystals with processes that take millions of years to complete. Even our life is at very core, a bunch of chemical reactions. Each civilization's definitions of life will vary based on their chemistry.

[@bbbb98765]

The "inevitable progress of technology" is not at all inevitable. Moore's law only held while it was POSSIBLE to shrink transistors. We're nearly at the point where we'll hit physical limitations, not ingenuity limitations

[@browngreen933]

I think we're already reaching the limits.

[@ritalewis1021]

Excellent podcast

[@fjgiie]

What are Artifacts?

[@SophiaAnderson777]

They're ruining economy , our lives also

[@Evolutiontweaked]

The universe is so vast maybe they just haven’t found us yet, or they are on there way.. maybe once we become intelligent we kill each other off so no one’s around long enough to explore the universe. Maybe they are here and we don’t know what to look for.

[@dongshengdi773]

David Icke said that they are disguised as our world leaders . They are actually reptilian aliens

[@tunahelpa5433]

I know the answer - they all invented AGI machine superintelligence

[@oskarngo9138]

Space and time is just too big... that Civilizations just miss each other... Contradictory to Belief; life is dependent on a Planets biome... This “Star Trek” Thinking that life/humans can life and conquer space is Garbage....!

[@PatchyJay]

We earthling may be the dumb aliens cast out from a super intelligent planet

[@limolnar]

🚨This conversation needs to be: We know they exist and that they're here, so now what? Agreed that everyone should be angry that we've wasted trillions on activities that are behind where we should be, given that the technology already exists past where we're performing...that technology is trickled as to maximise profit rather than to benefit humankind. Let's have THAT conversation.

[@bowieupland6112]

"We know that they exist and that they are here"... Really now? Please do tell how "we know".

[@limolnar]

@@bowieupland6112 The government acknowledging it isn't good enough for you?

[@bowieupland6112]

@@limolnar "The government acknowledging" 🤣😂 My god, are you eight? Your naiveté would be adorable, if you were a child or an imbecile.

[@gerry4b]

Yes, there could be many forms of intelligence. Too bad we see none on display here.

[@jamesconner8275]

Remember, the Tarters are members of the Flat Earth Society.

[@888jackflash]

I find these people to be smugly dismissive of the growing mountain of evidence of Non-Human technology that has either been seen... or found on Earth. Granted, the DoD has not fully released much... but they don't address this subject at all

[@jago76]

They don't seem to have open minds. On the other hand, Michio Kaku is a scientist who has not closed his mind to the real possibility that we are being visited and evidence exists.

[@tonyatkinson2210]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

[@jago76]

@@tonyatkinson2210 True, but I find that many who dismiss the extraterrestrial hypothesis have not even looked into the background and history of ufos/uaps. For instance, have you read probably the most respected book on the subject, Leslie Kean's book? If not, your opinion is not not of high value.

[@dongshengdi773]

​@@tonyatkinson2210Research in quantum mechanics is usually geared toward technology. However, and somewhat surprisingly, there is increasing evidence that nature-an engineer with billions of years of practice-has learned how to use quantum mechanics to function optimally. If this is indeed true, it means that our understanding of biology is radically incomplete. It also means that we could possibly control physiological processes by using the quantum properties of biological matter .

[@888jackflash]

@@tonyatkinson2210 It's extraordinary that an extraordinary number of extraordinary people have testified to an extraordinary array of extraordinary events. Suggest viewing the documentary- 'The Phenomenon"

[@mrddcass6540]

They're hiding at Bigfoots house.

[@throwaway692]

Turn on absolutely ANY television channel you care to. Now recognize that the information on that channel is escaping into space. Now explain too me why any intelligent life would alert us to their presence?

[@simonhibbs887]

Our signals are so weak, and have only propagated such a tiny relative distance. In cosmic terms any aliens that could have detected us so far would have to be practically right on top of us already, in one of a handful of nearby systems.

[@ALEXLOPEZ-eq9qf]

Time travelers obviously

[@rrussell9731]

There are senses we don't have or maybe the senses we do have aren't sensitive enough to detect them. I'm sure there's something out there, but we may not even recognize it if it came here.

[@khaderlander2429]

Like angles and demons right

[@simonhibbs887]

I presume you're including technological senses like the full range of electromagnetic spectrum telescopes, and even gravity wave detectors we have now as senses.

[@factchecker2090]

If we understand that the primary unit of life is the Cell Then cellular life could exist elsewhere in the universe. How far it has evolved into intelligent species in other locations in space is the question? The probability of life in other locations in space is clear. The question is when will we hit that lottery.

[@kylebushnell2601]

Fermis paradox is not a paradox if take into consideration the facts and data then evident reality that, other intelligences are already “visiting”. These kinds of scientists and their opinions zero research is actually such a slap in the face to people who do diligence on the topic as well as experiences of otherworldly phenomena. I actually pity :)

[@catherinemira75]

Hummm.. What would this discovery, if successful, give to our understanding of life? 🤔It would increase our confusion about the universe, that's about all imo

[@MagnumInnominandum]

Intelligent...hmm, why would they come here?

[@alexanthony6259]

lol they are talking about publicly available technology 😂 we haven’t found them because interstellar travel doesn’t take place at the speed of light or sound but through vibrations or inter dimensional travel. Every point in space and time is connected.

[@jasonfairbanks4714]

I like Jill’s comment: Aliens probably aren’t going to travel across the galaxy to end up crashing in the desert (near Area 51).

[@redshiftdrift]

But they are also not going to travel across the galaxy to remain hidden among us! Jill's other agrument fails.

[@joaogrande8846]

The technology that they use to get here may be different/independent from what they use to fly around earth... and yes accidents can happen even in high engineering. Jill's comments are very silly (not only because of that).

[@joaogrande8846]

@@redshiftdrift First of all, we don't know if they'd "fly" here in a linear mode... but they certainly could come here and don't want to chat with us. We wouldn't have much to offer them.

[@andreteixeira5635]

So much nonsense and futile speculation, especially from the lady.

[@bowieupland6112]

She's no "lady".

[@Mimilamims]

Stating that there are no artifacts is the first lie

[@Bill..N]

Jill and her husband are doing good work worthy of applause.. At least this fine couple realizes the probability is high that contemporary alien cultures exist within our Galaxy.. Unstable and ever changing environments likely ensure the number of these contemporaries remains quite low, AND some will thrive longer than others. Just a few long-lived super civilizations could explore the galaxy, and WE stand out like an advertising beacon in the darkness. Academia has been conditioned to turn a blind eye to earthly ufo phenomenon, ignoring the information that doesn't fit into their hardened assumptions.. There absolutely IS a measure of EVIDENCE that non-human technology is currently interacting with our planet.One thing I can say with confidence is that human technology is nowhere close to what we are observing in our skys.. Peace..

[@nyttag7830]

Ariel school Rhodesia 🤗

[@DonovanWert]

Cool beans.

[@Dion_Mustard]

UFOs.....

[@bozo5632]

The great silence may just be a great deafness. We don't have much ability to detect ET if they're not already trying to get our attention. That should improve pretty fast though.

[@dt6653]

Excuses and more excuses from the SETI people.

[@todrichards1105]

What if a distant advanced civilization in the past managed to create super-intelligent AGI. Image that AI with an equivalent IQ of 2000……20,000……2,000,000…..? What would such an entity be capable of? Is it inconceivable that it could send out a “signal” (probably not EM) that could manipulate distant minds to…..wait for it…..develop super intelligent AI? Makes ya think.

[@dongshengdi773]

Research in quantum mechanics is usually geared toward technology. However, and somewhat surprisingly, there is increasing evidence that nature-an engineer with billions of years of practice-has learned how to use quantum mechanics to function optimally. If this is indeed true, it means that our understanding of biology is radically incomplete. It also means that we could possibly control physiological processes by using the quantum properties of biological matter .

[@dongshengdi773]

Everything that exists is evidence of a Creator. I know that everyone wants to believe, but all the evidence says that the trajectory of life and evolution on Earth was an almost infinite series of one-off lucky chances. There's nothing wrong with keeping up the search, but there's also no point in getting our expectations up. ... Accidental specks of dust in a cold and indifferent universe, we just happened to win the lottery, other things had to take a big Leap.