Lathe Electronic Leadscrew Part 6: First Test Cuts!

[@rpavlik1]

Man, with going from the mess of change gears, to just pressing buttons, I'd be jumping up and down, shouting "ship it!", And finding a way to mount the control box. Just awesome.

[@MrWebsie]

This is what KZbin and the internet is truly for, inspiration, learning and absolutely brilliant content!

[@JulieanGalak]

Wow. I know I'm late to this party, but what an amazing project. I'm also completely shocked the 3D printed pulleys held up under the load. I expected the one on the leadscrew shaft to come apart as soon as load was applied.

[@EverettsWorkshop]

The fact that with that many counts it was still registering accurately, and the threads you were cutting actually fit, is just awesome. The thought of 174000 counts per second is very impressive!

[@bobuk5722]

Hi James. I think I said this before, but I'll repeat it. Make a kit for the electronics available that can be ordered from the UK and I'll buy it. Incidentally I've forwarded the link to the code to my son who is into that sort of thing and asked if he could teach me how to compile it. The lathe I have, as I also think I said before, is very similar to yours so porting should be easy. One plea, because I can't remember if you've covered it, is that this really needs to cope with metric threads as well as US ones in order to maximise your market. Feed rates are not so important, nice to have both options though. Nearly all hobbyists over here are quite happy working in either measurement system - most steam loco builders will be using imperial of course, but some other things just have to be metric threads. Many, many thanks for all the good work you are putting in. It's a very valuable resource and addition to the hobby. BobUK.

[@sooty655]

I agree with all of that, and I'll certainly buy it as well, but PLEASE make it work with a metric feed screw.

[@iainwilliams6510]

Agreed. Im'm in the UK, too, and would happily buy one if it can do Imperial and Metric. Will probably end up with a bigger stepper/servo, though, cos I want to robotize a 16" Monarch BB with 6'6" between centers. Cos I can! Lol.

[@Clough42]

Not to worry...it will work with either metric or imperial lead screws, and it will also cut metric threads with an imperial lead screw and vice-versa. I am working on a PC board as well. The first prototype board is at the fab now.

[@schwellenzaehler4587]

If you want a well developed ELS-device with a lot of functions,........... give www.Rocketronics.de a try. Louis developed this for the hobby guys, and for his own lathe. I earn no money with this comment. 😉 Tere is existing a english forum, also a english manual, and a lot of interesting youtube videos. I think it is not necessary to reinvent the wheel.

[@windsoruk]

@@schwellenzaehler4587, there is of course also this: autoartisans.com/ELS/ but where's the fun in that? ;-)

[@adamthethird4753]

Man, this makes me so happy. I cannot even express it. Thank you for sharing this project and your triumphs with us!

[@Clough42]

You're welcome. I'm glad you're enjoying it.

[@lesthompson5907]

not e to . @@Clough42 yes i enjoy it to. But if i could get a answer to my question it wuld mean i can get on with developing my idea for driving my lath threading. it dose not have a led screw it masks ues of the Rack .will i need a encoder to keep the motor in step ?.

[@jasonruch3529]

That is awesome! Plus now you get to keep more power to just drive the chuck!

[@Litzwire]

Thats really impressive. I have been bouncing ideas around in my head for an age to come up with a straight forward electronic leadscrew along these lines and you have designed and proved a very practical method. Many thanks.

[@Clough42]

You're welcome. I've been bouncing ideas around for a while, too. :)

[@stephenjohnson6841]

I'm thoroughly impressed. For just prototyping and testing very impressive. Thanks again James.

[@andrewp4184]

Well done, I was sure you would get this to work from the time I saw the first videos. You are one clever person!

[@scottkennedy7741]

Incredible project, well worth the wait to see the demo

[@joell439]

The successes keep mounting. Obviously the result of deep thoughtful considerations and small steps and validations along the way. I’m very appreciative of you sharing this with the KZbin audience. I’ve learned a ton. All the best........ Joel

[@Clough42]

Thanks!

[@richardcurtis556]

I came in the middle of this series and am now going back to catch up. I have to admit that the electronics escape me but the mechanics are crystal clear. These are immersive videos and totally entertaining and educational.

[@mickyc4003]

Pretty inspiring to be across so many areas of expertise and pull this project off. Some small companies would not be able to achieve what you have done on your own! WELL DONE! Electronic engineering, mechanical engineering, abstract math theory, software programming, debugging and testing, lathe and mill mastery, 3d printing, CAD. I would be jumping up and down doing cartwheels and you're like "well that worked out well." Once again, great job and cant wait for further updates and additional projects; TOT finally has some competition :).

[@Clough42]

Thanks!

[@jothain]

Congratulations on the project. Cool to see that it wasn't wasted effort

[@firecardenal]

Super, super, super cool. So far so good!!!!!!!!!!! I'm impressed with your development. I'm looking forward to the next video. Thanks for sharing.

[@Clough42]

You're welcome.

[@EDesigns_FL]

Spectacular results. I suspect that there will be a long line of small lathe owners who will want to install your electronic lead-screw. If your interested in running additional accuracy tests, I would suggest threading a longer specimen (~12") with a much finer thread (~60 TPI). It could be in any diameter. Then use some long calipers to verify distance between threads over entire length. In addition to verify accuracy, it would provide a larger sample area to see of there are any issues that may not have arisen with the shorter threading operations. In order to determine an appropriate size drive motor, some measurements of drive torque should be taken. A simple method would be to measure servo motor current draw and correlate the values with torque. A more accurate method would be to alter the mount for the drive motor so that it can freely rotate. Then attach an arm to the motor with a load cell to measure actual torque.

[@dimmaz88]

I've subscribed for every time you've not said PCB board 😁. Great work, loving the content.

[@Mecatronicgarage]

Congratulations on the project, this is a brilliant and functional idea.

[@Clough42]

Thanks!

[@DanielMecatronica]

Servos that may fit your needs are Clearpath, as already mentioned, but also DMM technologies. I made a video where I compare stepper motors to DMM servos on my G0704 and the servos are almost silent (you only hear the dovetails on the bed). Love your videos, the detail and editing is amazing.

[@splackism]

Clearpath seems like a good choice of servo

[@jerryquigg3497]

Excellent ... and .. demo switching to metric pitch threads.

[@Clough42]

Will do. Coming soon.

[@windsoruk]

@@Clough42 Very impressive - how will you synchronise position for the metric pitches though? Although you don't show it explicitly, in this video at least, you seem to be using a threading dial to re-engage your half nuts - don't think that will work for metric pitches on an imperial leadscrew (or vice-versa, in fact)... Would love to have a solution to that, as I have a metric lathe and want to be able to cut imperial threads on occasion, without having to make or find some exotic change gear combinations and worry about fitting them on the gearbox input....

[@Clough42]

@@windsoruk the short answer is that you have to leave the halfnut engaged and reverse the lathe, just like with gears. The software in the controller has all of the ratios for metric threads so at least you don't have to find your 127-tooth gear. The longer answer is that it would be possible to stop the servo, reverse the leadscrew and restart in sync, without stopping the spindle. I haven't tackled that problem yet.

[@1960fl]

@@Clough42 I think this is a great concept toward a Hybrid CNC threader if you added a linear encoder on the carriage and a rotary on the lead screw your application could set thread linear length then stop without having to put a gutter. You would use a start and/or re-sync button instead of half nut to run the process, thread then retract and return the carriage (by reversing the servo), set depth press a re-sync button the application re-orients position and begins threading again to the stop position.

[@henmich]

0:20 That smile at the beginning of the video says "It's working Well"

[@Clough42]

I hadn't thought about that, but I did shoot the intro last. :)

[@1607rosie]

I am really impressed. Those steppers do have a lot of torque!

[@bokkievatikaki5676]

It is a real easy conversion on a gear change lathe. I will go back and watch how you got there. Specifically your sensor on the spindle drive. Well done.

[@MrJohnnaz]

Grand slam you hit it out of the park! Two big thumbs up.

[@elgallodecente1472]

Thank’s for teaching us to make threads!!!

[@BEdmonson85]

Now you just need to program a mode that takes a distance as input and will stop/reverse the lathe at the end of the thread. No gutter needed then! :) I'm loving this series so far.

[@OmarElmasry1]

Your content is truly amazing, thank you for sharing this.

[@Clough42]

Thanks! You're welcome!

[@christopherleveck6835]

@@Clough42 did you ever get a servo? Just finding my way though the channel and know this was awhile ago but I have one I can send to you. Maybe we could horse trade for a kit? cwleveck at gmail dot you know

[@Barrysworkshop]

Excellent work sir. I've enjoyed watching this come from a basic concept to actually cutting threads. Congrats on the latest milestone.

[@googacct]

Just finished watching all parts of the series up to this point. Great work. Another area where I see this controller being useful is for a glass blowing lathe. For a glass blowing lathe there are two spindles that must turn in sync, otherwise the glass part being held will break. Normally the driving is done with a shaft, but this would eliminate the shaft and the additional mechanical complexity.

[@PatFarrellKTM]

This is such a cool project. Congrats. Big cuts you are making

[@pcrengnr1]

James you must be busting at the seams with joy. All that remains is to find the motor limits if one exists and packaging. Yippee almost done. Soon all the lathe mfrs will be using this method. Thx a lot for taking the time and sharing.

[@larrysmurthwaite773]

Very nice, great functionality and anxious to see the limits between the two motor types!

[@leeklemetti1887]

Excellent results. I haven't followed this build, but now I have to. My Logan 10" is change gears, so I would really like to convert this.

[@robertsanders1916]

really enjoyed you videos. i bought a wiess 11x30 lathe and i hate changing gears. mayba one day i can install units like you have on my lathe and get rid of the gear changing. outstanding

[@JasonDoege]

Two ideas: If you let the controller always keep an absolute position for the spindle then you would not have to use the thread dial (but you would have to use the stepper/servo for all your carriage moves or add a position sensor for the carriage.) If you let the controller offset the timing between passes, you would not have to use the compound while threading, just the cross-slide.

[@bexpi7100]

You would still use the compound, because one of the reasons you use the compound at an angle is to reduce the chip load. This old Tony has a video on threading and I'm pretty sure he talks about that.

[@Clough42]

Hmm...interesting idea. The controller would have to know how much you're feeding in on the cross-slide to offset the Z to move down the flank. At that point, you'd be best off with encoders on both X and Z and the line between manual lathe and CNC starts to blur.

[@curtislavoie2242]

@@Clough42 Awesome project! There is no need to feed with the compound with the modern threading insert like one you are using. Get a left hand one and feed away from the chuck. Joe Pie has a great video on the subject. This could make threading very fast and easy. Again, great work!

[@HM-Projects]

@@Clough42 you would only need that if the thread pitch is not a multiple of the leadscrew pitch or am I missing something ?

[@jon_raymond]

Congrats on hitting hitting 10k subscribers! This project has really been fun to follow. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and the journey.

[@Clough42]

You're welcome.

[@dws_damiansworkshop]

Awesome results, I like and appreciate your work! Have a look at JMC servos. The smallest one has about 180W and costs around 160€. They are fully configurable and come with integrated drivers. Best regards Damian

[@mrechbreger]

160EUR??? I paid 85$ including shipping.... to Taiwan.

[@tobiasripper4124]

amzing!! been waiting for these tests. i THINK i have a good idea. could you add a switch (maybe magnetic) to stop (pause?) the servo? an adjustable switch that you can set so when the carriage makes contact with it, the servo stops spinning. like, when you put an indicator to see how much you have advanced the carriage. now you don't need to cut gutters for threading or even pay attention to the carriage in order to stop in time. i don't know, feels like a good idea.

[@David_Best]

An electronic proximity stop like this one would be a good idea. flic.kr/p/TX56UL It could be used to stop a thread feeding operation, or even trigger a full stop via the VFD like mine does.

[@TAWPTool]

I would call that a resounding success! Congratulations! I'm anxious to see the end result. Thanks for bringing us along!

[@michaellinahan7740]

James, Watching this in continued awe at the development stages you have gone through made me think of another project I have always thought about; a taper attachment. However, now that you already have a feed from the ucontroller this could be used to drive a lead screw moving a spring loaded copy arm (mounted to another of those rotary encoders) along a template. If it is not tied to the cross slide then it could be mounted vertically near the end of the lathe by the tailstock and a drive signal fed to a cross slide drive. Just in case you were twiddling your thumbs when this project is mastered. Mike

[@thaumaturgicresearchcounci4180]

Congratulations on a well engineered project James! I've been following your series with interest - I have a small Harrison lathe with no threading capability, and this will be a good project for those long winter months! Thank you!

[@lucianobellebono9748]

Stupendo!!! Semplicemente meraviglioso! Grazie James.

[@mr1enrollment]

Nice work. One idea for turning not threading: A mode for advance that included a "advance for one spindle rotation" followed by "no advance for on rotation", would be interesting with an eye for chip break.

[@routercnc9517]

Nice idea and could help with bird-nesting on aluminium. The stepper might sound a bit noisy with the rapid starting and stopping, but worth trying.

[@ettumama]

So good. I'm enjoying this series, very much. I can hardly wait to see what's next.

[@slarti42uk]

Just have to say thank you for such an excellent series of videos for this project. I think this is something I would love to add to may lathe as I'm also put off threading with all the change gear setup. Thanks

[@link12552]

Nice work! As far as I know, a "hybrid stepper" is just a stepper with an encoder. The hybrid driver can then pick up any missed steps. As far as cheap AC servos go, I think DYN4 has a nice reasonably priced drive. Additionally, they are based in Canada, their drives come with excellent documentation, and you can call them up if you have questions.

[@kevinault9419]

James this is a very cool setup. Use your encoder to engage the feed on threads. So you can put in a push button when your ready to make a pass on a thread. No need for split nut or thread chasing dial.

[@BrilliantDesignOnline]

New viewer here. Super impressed. I have a Grizzly G4000 9x19. Now I am going to have to back-watch your channel :-) Nice hi-res filming and great editing and sound.

[@kenburdges4177]

Very nice set of videos. I think you can use the extra motor to make a polygon turning live spindle on the tool post.

[@nigelport9862]

Brilliant, practical mod. I'm up for a kit if the come. Thanks

[@fredbloggs4829]

This has probably already been suggested, but a moveable limit switch could be used to sense when the treading tool is inside the gutter and stop. Maybe even no need for a gutter at all. But what would be really cool, is to start a forward pass, stop. Switch the spindle direction and then do a reverse pass (you need an index marker on the spindle as well) No need to engage and disengage the lead screw nuts. One system I saw had two speeds as well; slow to do the forward cut and faster to return.

[@jmtx.]

Wow, that was awesome speed threading! Great to see electronic augmentations like this.

[@chrislamb4723]

I'm thoroughly inspired! Thank you! Most of my parts have arrived. I'll be starting my build in July.

[@charleskwan2005]

Been subscribed since I saw your channel, and James, I am sold to your ELS product/project. Got the shorter, but similiar transmission, lathe which is HF 44859 8X12(14). Once I put this ELS in, all the things I don't like about that lathe will be gone! Thank you James for the effort! Please let us know when the ELS product out for sale.

[@adamengland2519]

Such an amazing result. You really know your electronics. For the cost it makes me wonder if manufacturers would take this up.

[@RRINTHESHOP]

Great progress. Very nice job. Did you consider replacing the gear drive to the encoder with a timing belt drive from the spindle? No backlash to the encoder. But then again you rpm reading is spot on.

[@CraigLYoung]

Randy Richard In The Shop : So you've been watching this too. Glad to see someone is trying to update old lathe technology.

[@petermenningen338]

Good work We just recieved a little Taig lathe at our Makerspace Maui Makers and I am intrested in upgrading it like this. I will goo back to your previous videos in this series before asking other questions. I just became a subscriber to your channel

[@Core3DTech]

I've ordered all the items I need and look forward to trying this. A 1940s 6" atlas will give me a little less room to work with, but hopefully I'll figure it out

[@SlamminGraham]

All coming together... nice!!!

[@randysmith9715]

I've often considered adding this to my 9x20 lathe, but not so far. Very Nice work,

[@bexpi7100]

I'm certainly not an expert at PCB design, but I am an electrical engineering major and my current job is doing some PCB design, so if you want i would love to help with the creation of the circuit board.

[@clearlake2112]

James you have done an amazing job from design concept to implementation. I wanted to to something similar years ago but never got to it. Great work!

[@bostedtap8399]

Excellent design and implementation, much more potential. Thanks for sharing.

[@TheAyrCaveShop]

Awesome...Congratulations! All that research and testing has paid off nicely. Great series!

[@joemcgarry1106]

Great job James. Thank you for what you are doing.

[@chrisj4570g]

Totally awesome. 👍

[@cncmetalworks]

Great Job with this project, it will be my next conversion project for my lathe

[@Alphakilo84]

game changer, brilliant work

[@afriedli]

Very interesting video series on a great project! I'm sure the work you've done will be very useful and inspiring for many others.

[@kingofhearts3703]

Congrats on a project well done! Excellent work

[@Kei22]

Very nice machine , good job sir.

[@Clough42]

Thanks!

[@JohnJones1987]

Great video as always! The only thing that would make this lathe better is a minimalist coat of paint, now all that technical debt has been removed. Maybe change the motor for a reluctance motor so your VFD can have two knobs - speed and torque :) It never ends! :D

[@MrPatdeeee]

Brilliant! It doth NOT get any better than this. Thanks kind Sir!

[@44mod]

Great job I get so excited when I watch the progress of a project. I am interested in the code and working with the Ti controller. Would love to see some videos on how you made the code and installed on Ti F280049C controller. You talked about it on one of your earlier videos and i downloaded the file. I know enough about code to kind of read what is going on but would like to see how it all cake about. Just food for thought. Thanks and great job!!!!

[@holz_ps]

This is basically exactly what i want on my lathe, but could you add a electrical swich that you can slide on the lathe bed and if the carriage presses it, it acts like a carriage stop. That way you could stop the carriage pretty fast at the end of the tread and wouldn't have the problem of overtraveling into the stock. That would be a pretty nice feature. Hope you understand me, i'm from germany. If you have questions about this idea feel free to ask me.

[@fuzzy1dk]

it might be useful as a safety but it you stop the leadscrew and not the spindle you lose synchronization so it won't work for threading

[@holz_ps]

@@fuzzy1dk I hoped someone would ask that. You could program the computer so it knows at which angle the leadscrew should be and when the butten is unpressed the half nuts are disengaged (because you just moved the cariage) and the screw can quickly turn to the position it schould be.

[@nfdf]

Nice work, congratulations, on your next project please try to put a vfd on an air compressor

[@airgunningyup]

man i wish i had this on my grizzly g4000... I avoid certain thread pitches because i dont feel like changing the gears and chasing c-clips (-' Excellent work. I cannot even think of a way to improve the setup you have ..

[@randysmith9715]

I modded the clip shaft to use the same kind of "U" nut the banjo uses.

[@airgunningyup]

@@randysmith9715that makes sense .. ill have to look at it.

[@randysmith9715]

@@airgunningyup Check out www.coleman-family.org/Files/Retaining_Clip_Mod.pdf

[@jasonhovey815]

Would love this set up for my lathe

[@krisnewman3202]

Simply awesome! Thank you for sharing this project.

[@peterashford7364]

Excellent, can you show how you start the thread cut and how you ensure subsequent cuts stay synchronised.

[@rodolforodrigues4044]

Perfect! Congratulations!!! Can You please put some dark mask over the 7 segments display to make it easier to us to see the values displayed? Thanks. (I'm in Brazil, sorry for my "weak" english.)

[@Clough42]

I have some, and that will be part of the final assembly.

[@jasonm2477]

CONGRATS! this is really impressive.

[@TomChame]

Beautiful work, thanks for sharing.

[@minskmade]

whoa. to awesome. it has been so fun watching the progress. great stuff. this is really pretty amazing.

[@alanjackson4397]

Fantastic work

[@NathanielIten]

Hello. You've mentioned it is to befigured out if the stepper or the servo is performing better, but I can't see that in further videos. Have i missed anything?

[@gregghooper]

Clearpath. Might not be the cheapest option but might be the best!

[@GreatOldOne]

Watching avidly, as I hate changing the change gears on my Sieg SC4. Great progress so far!

[@damienmiller]

Have you checked out the Clearpath brushless DC servos? AFAIK they are strong for their size and very quiet. Congratulations on your progress - I can't wait to do something similar for my lathe.

[@31pkelly]

Great video

[@timbear3]

Hi, this project is fabulous, I have been following you all the way up to here, and I always wanted to do a conversion as this to my lathe (12"x36"). I wonder if with this conversion would be possible to cut a double or a quadruple start thread screw? Thank you.

[@hypnolobster]

Oh wow. This is such a good idea.

[@sblack48]

Incredible project. So many possibilities, synchronize with cross slide stepper for tapers or gcode, micro switch carriage stops etc etc. The possibilities are endless. Do you plan to remove the gearbox now that you have a prototype working? Congratulations and thank you for sharing.

[@jwest613]

I'm not sure if i missed this information but what belt pitch and width are the servo/lead screw pulleys ? (would like to be sure I am using the strongest set up I can) I pulled the project from another lathe I had a few years and am now installing it on another lathe but I do not have the pulleys from the lead screw and servo anymore. I know i was using the 3:1 24 and 72 tooth pulleys. Does the most updated software still reflect using the 3:1 ratio pulleys ? Thanks in advance !

[@timwoods9350]

This is awsome! Definitely a must do for my leath!

[@pravado81]

Excellent work. Love it.

[@thomaslamora1679]

second like... second comment - not that i am excited to see the next video in the series. Can't wait to see this come to fruition.

[@20samp]

Loving the project so far! How will this cope with metric threads? I'm guessing it's an imperial leadscrew, so I'm wondering if it's still possible to disengage and reengage at the same number and still stay synchronised? If not I imagine you could add some clever logic in software to allow you to reverse the leadscrew and then re-synchronise to make another cut. EDIT: I see you've mentioned doing hybrid threads as a possiblity in the GitHub project.

[@Clough42]

The software supports the ratios to cut metric threads with an imperial leadscrew (or vice-versa) but it doesn't change the reality that the threads don't line up on any interval, so you have to keep the halfnut closed and reverse the lathe. It would be possible to have the software automatically reverse the screw and resynchronize while leaving the spindle turning, but I'm starting simple. If I get bogged down in the UI and the software for that now, the project is likely to stall.

[@windrk_6754]

@@Clough42 Just a comment before I have finished with the series (and this may be addressed already elsewhere in comments!).. seems like to reverse the lead screw, to run the carriage back, without disengaging the half nut, you just need to somehow run it in reverse and effectively subtract whole revolutions of the spindle, so that is doesn't lose track of where it is for once you start turning the lead screw forward again. You are probably familiar with lead screw reverse, such as in a Hardinge HLV - where the lead screw only re-engages once per revolution of the spindle with a one-tooth clutch. This allows dispensing with a threading dial completely, and might be considered a more desirable benefit of an electronic lead screw than even metric threading, for many users, because thread cutting becomes so much quicker & easier. You can even trigger it with a microswitch allowing threading up to a shoulder (as they use the mechanical stop on the Hardinge) Thanks for an excellent series, looking forward to the rest of it...

[@raph151515]

use clearpath servos, they are wonderful