Why The U.S. Fell Behind In Phone Manufacturing

Made in China. It’s a common phrase known by many. Cell phones, TV screens and game consoles are just some of the millions of electronics manufactured and imported from China to the U.S. daily. China has controlled the smartphone manufacturing market for years. While some industries, like the semiconductor industry and the EV battery market, are scrambling to build new factories across the U.S., tech giants like Apple and Google are not making the same effort to do that. CNBC explores why tech giants produce phones abroad and whether it makes sense to move production to America. And CNBC visits one company, Purism, at its Carlsbad, California factory to take a look inside the only smartphone manufacturing facility in the U.S. to learn what it takes to build phones in America.
Produced by: Sydney Boyo
Supervising Producer: Jeniece Pettitt
Additional Camera: Andrew Evers, Katie Brigham
Editorial Support: Katie Tarasov
Graphics by: Josh Kalven
Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
1:12 Big Tech favors China
6:00 Challenges of reshoring
11:39 Is America ready?
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Why The U.S. Fell Behind In Phone Manufacturing

[@forbeginnersandbeyond6089]

I worked and managed manufacturing electronics and semiconductors for 30 years. I’ve visited China on manufacturing activities multiple times. I became management and can see the financial statements. In the 1990’s and early 2000’s, labor cost in Asia was the driver. This drove supply chain to go to Asia, even the most complex manufacturing and less labor intensive like chip manufacturing. So in 2000’s it’s supply chain as driver. In the end, it’s profit margin that is driving the companies to manufacture in Asia, particularly China. The US and Europe have given up even their low labor intensive manufacturing capability (chip foundries) and even design capability (engineers are cheaper in Asia). They could still make a profit by manufacturing in the US, but that profit may be only 10% compared to 30% if made in Asia (mostly China). So the root cause is profit MARGIN, not profit.

[@lordlee6473]

Entire supply chain for a vertical is located in one area in China, which makes the manufacturing process super efficient. US or Europe have nothing like that, not even close. That’s why the overall cost is cheaper in China, not the labor cost. Chinese labor’s ain’t cheap at all.

[@forbeginnersandbeyond6089]

@@lordlee6473 You misunderstand what I’m saying.

[@tooltalk]

@@lordlee6473 Not sure what you mean. Most of Apple iPhone's important components, eg, AP, display, memory/storage, camera sensors, etc, are all made outside China; then imported and brought to China for assembly. China's contribution to Apple iPhone's BOM for instance accounts for less than 10% -- that's not "entire supply-chain." Apple = Make China Great Again.

[@jeffruebens8355]

@@tooltalk Intel is building a new chip factory near Columbus Ohio, maybe it will change things for where the rest are made or assembled. Also higher fuel prices. It would change faster if Canada was not the only area with universal health insurance, and Mexico allows severe air and water pollution from a factory.

[@rond5936]

It's just that China has more graduates in Science Technology Engineering & Mathematics STEM than USA. US prefers to train more climate Activists and Women's Rights advocates, whiles China trains more Engineers and Scientists.

[@jascrandom9855]

Because China gives the best Skill-to-Cost ratio and a complete manufacturing ecosystem.

[@Samir12357]

Exactly what I thought. But you put it first

[@RicePho]

Skill? There is no skill if a person just sits there and repeat the same cycle of putting 1 part in the build then move it to the next person to repeat the cycle. They are just cheap labor and knowing Apple they rather not get the flake of people calling them out for slave labor so they source it out to Foxxxcon so they get the blame.

[@user-zf2se1he5h]

Yep

[@Anonymous-qb4vc]

And biggest consumer market.

[@Bamawagoner]

People like MSNBC praised the Chinese and US megacorps as our jobs left to Chinese slave labor. The Communist Party does not believe in love, peace, equality, and tolerance. In fact, they believe in their own cultural superiority, and revenge for a century of European humiliation. Our grandkids will know the pain of working for a xenophobic culture that hates them.

[@FirstLast-vr7es]

They say that labor costs are too high in the US, but never mention that it's still profitable. Companies like Apple are awash in cash from exploiting cheap labor. They just don't want to give that up, even if it hurts the country that birthed them to continue. To Tim Cook: Smartphones may have never been a big "made in USA" product, but consumer electronics ABSOLUTELY were. It all ended when companies started contracting the manufacturing side out to Asia (primarily) in the late '60s-early '70s. It was cheaper, everyone was doing it, and they all got addicted to the higher profit margins. What would happen when working-class wage averages started to plateau and drop wasn't their concern. Now we have inner-city blight, gang violence, political unrest, crime and rampant pessimism to show for it all. If something isn't done soon, we're going to have full-on class warfare. Because who has done exceptionally well because of all this? Companies like Apple, Alphabet, Amazon, Walmart etc. and the fabulously wealthy people that run them.

[@Victor-tl4dk]

They forgot to say that although the minimum wage is $7.25 it's long overdue for a doubling and no one is actually going to work for $7.25 in the US anymore anytime soon.

[@AgonxOC]

None of these jobs are paying 7.25. The fact you bring that up shows you have not a clue about manufacturing in the US.

[@J_Lag]

Another factor they left out or withheld is profits tied to labor costs. The stockholders want their profit gains and CEOs want their insane pay and bonuses.

[@TwiztedMannix87]

This, plus they don't want to admit that publicly traded companies won't allow this. This only works with private companies because it keeps the money within itself and doesn't give out to shareholders every quarter. Wall street is also speculation, news articles devalues companies not real company news and this is evident with hedgefund companies. Notice how all the ones that failed in the video are publicly traded.

[@walterwang2011]

Iphone sells 200 million phones per year, Tim cooks salery is 100 million. That's 50 cents per phone. The made in USA phone in the video costs $1000 more than an iphone with probably poorer quality.

[@-opus]

that is accurate, they love to market it as just higher prices for good though

[@VA-gu1jq]

No they didn’t leave it out 🤦‍♂️ What you think you stumbled upon here….was almost the entire point of the video. Lack of skilled manpower, and labor costs tied to profits. They mentioned it several times, with specific examples. What are you talking about??

[@-opus]

@@VA-gu1jq You missed their point entirely. Products are often made internationally due to greed, those at the top want more profits, at any cost. The products don't necessarily have to cost much more, the profit margins just need to be reduced to allow domestic manufacture. The US minimum wage quoted in this video was roughly double the Chinese minimum wage (both ridiculously low compared to actually developed countries). Americans really need to learn how to vote properly.

[@n7eet]

$2000 for a phone with specs of a less than $100 Android phone (Redmi 11a) shows that's it's a 20 to 1 cost of manufacturing electronics USA v China.

[@k9man163]

That's what i was thinking.

[@gkheng]

so it's time US to subsidy $1900 for a phone purchase from the Purism

[@k9man163]

@@gkheng ha. I like that one.

[@Saurabh-255]

Purism phone has lower standard than lava in India.

[@ochieng5685]

is it not 400usd?

[@stevensmiddlemass2072]

America as we know it is finished. All indications point to 2023 being a year of severe economic pain across the country. Put that money to work right away to make it grow. I knew I had to make an investment. I never imagined that a few thousand dollars per month would add up. However, it is. I've made around $600,000 since 2020.

[@KingDavid-jj7tk]

Congrats. The true financial unlock comes when you understand and know the technique required to manage your investment's overall risk profile and avoid permanent capital loss. It is critical to have a strategy in place to capitalize on profits when they occur.

[@biankabrodeur-yf3yl]

@Patricia Martin Exclusive information and data pathways that are not accessible to the general public are available to fiduciary-counselors. At the instruction of my Fiduciary-counselor "STACIE KRISTAL WEBER," I made over $560k between Q3 and Q4 of 2022. I anticipate more.

[@ConradGosling]

@@biankabrodeur-yf3yl How can I get in touch with Stacie? What are her offerings? Is she verifiable? Do you believe she can assist me? I am from Canada.

[@biankabrodeur-yf3yl]

@@ConradGosling you can look up her full name online and do your own research it should be a breeze finding her as she has an online presence

[@mattypants]

Can you imagine a cellphone made in the US? "I'd like the cheap base model please" "sure, that will be a $9800 down payment please and only $199/mo for 60mos"

[@ropro9817]

Wow, that made in USA Librem 5 with its 2005 looks (720p screen and chunky af) and specs costs $2000. 🤯🤯🤯 _That_ is why we don't have manufacturing in the US.

[@ShujaRafi]

It's a pure GNU Linux phone (Debian with GNOME).

[@ropro9817]

@@ShujaRafi And the average user would care about this because why? 🤔

[@youarereadingmyname]

@@ShujaRafi It's a niche market, it has very specific target, your average person doesn't care or know about this phone.

[@ropro9817]

@@youarereadingmyname I'm in the tech industry and I hadn't heard of it til I saw this video. Don't get me wrong, as an engineer, I _love_ that there's a company doing this, but it's probably not sustainable if it doesn't make financial sense.

[@DD-fs7pg]

@@ropro9817 And you're right, just look up the recent Purism and Librem refund scandals. Customers are not getting orders from 4-5 years ago and have not been able to get refunds, strung along and/or ignored. I would not be surprised if they're near insolvency.

[@RayMak]

It's really too costly for everything in America. I remember when I was traveling to US right before the pandemic. I had to spend USD 60 for a 1gb internet sim card, slow speed and unshareable hotspot too, and I had to sign some weird documents. The same year I was in Laos, so called 3rd world by US, internet was high speed, cost 1/10th the price, unlimited internet, shareable, no document.

[@Saurabh-255]

Hahaha 😆 Ray you have to visit India someday high speed internet is almost free here and India has indigenously made 5G India is also world cheapest internet provider and you love UPI Ecosystem.

[@ziggyai]

Why are u everywhere lol

[@annaicamillatheresa7275]

@@ziggyai he is paid by KZbin for comments

[@jacksableng4775]

1Gb is 10-50 cent in Indonesia for 4G network😂 whew

[@fangames032]

@@annaicamillatheresa7275 nice conspiracy theory

[@ya00007]

If Tim cook announced that apple is going to manufacture in the US, the stock price would plummet and he'd have to resign.

[@ya00007]

@@larry6601 I didn't know this. Please provide the links/evidence. I find it bizzare that any company would do this.

[@REAL-UNKNOWN-SHINOBI]

@@larry6601 AKA source is... Trust me bro

[@rocketomega11]

@@larry6601 then take out China battery and TSMC and Sony, the only component left that is made in America is the Apple logo.

[@tooltalk]

These are key technical, high-value suppliers in smartphones (in the order of importance/value): - AP: Qualcomm (US), Apple (US), Mediatek (Taiwan, mid-range phones) - cell/radio chips: Qualcomm (US), Mediatek (Taiwan) - displays: Samsung (South Korea), LG (South Korea), BOE (China, < 10%) - memory/NAND storage: Samsung (South Korea), SK Hynix (South Korea), Micron (US) - camera sensors: Sony (Japan), Samsung (South Korea) - batteries: CATL (China), LG (South Korea), Samsung (South Korea) - glass: Corning (US) * top US Apple, Qualcomm chip makers are fabless: no manufacturing; just IC designing. * TSMC is a pure-foundry; Samsung is both custom foundry, IDM (they make chips they design): fabless chip makers use them for "manufacturing." * Micron is the only US semi company that "manufactures" smartphone components in the US. * China's main contribution is in labor (assembly/packaging/testing), screws/rubber seals and other low-vaue, low-tech components. * China manufactures less than 15% of chips produced globally; in 2021, it imported to the tune of $400B worth of chips. * When Tim Apple defends Apple's indefensible oversea outsourcing, Tim Apple claims the "whole supply-chain is in China" -- he's talking about the low-value, low-tech supply-chain which accounts for less than 10% of their BOM -- ie, he's full of BS. * Contrary to Tim Apple's "highly skilled" Chinese labor claim, the average age of Foxconn workers putting together iPhones is only 23 -- most of them are very young, unskilled, cheap laborers from rural China. * Apple has been aggressively investing in China and, if Tim Apple gets his way, China could, one day, make most high-value, high-tech components.

[@EmmaNguyen-mg5xq]

@@tooltalk 👎👎👎👎👎

[@youcube2207]

Labor cost in America is ridiculously high compared to China or other industrious developing countries, your Iphone could cost as high as 5000 dollars per unit if it is manufactured in the US.

[@maxpro751]

@@larry6601 Tell me how America does better than China in automation? These multi billion dollar businesses of course have automation to make all of these units so your completely wrong on your part. Elon Musk built a Tesla automated plant in China and tell me how Americas automation plant is better? Your completely a fool for thinking America is better at everything.

[@dongningprc]

US labor doesn't work, face it.

[@JaceFalcon]

Based on what data

[@rocketomega11]

Chinese population over 50 year of age are mostly uneducated. However, younger Chinese population is very well educated. China produces 8x more engineers than the US every year. US used to be the world magnet for talents. Going back 20 years ago, 80% of Chinese PHD students stayed and worked in the US. Now less than 20% is doing that. China is #1 is intellectual property now and the US is #2. China research fund is $550 billion a year while the US is $610 billion a year, only slightly more. US promote people based on their race, gender not merit. In the US, if you are black women, you will get a special treatment and promotion. US High labor cost, high environmental cost, high litigation cost + social politic make America uncompetitive in manufacturing and will never be able to compete with China.

[@rocketomega11]

@@larry6601 China: 7.2% of workforce committed to agriculture. I fixed for you with real fact.

[@Lena-vw6ye]

Thank you CNBC. I sourced many of my products from the Canton Fair, Shenzhen Technology fair, and Hong Kong Technology Fair from China. I've been all across China, and plan on visiting Xinjiang and Tibet these coming years with covid lockdowns are relieved. While at that, I've been to Thailand, Vietnam and India's Trade/manufacturing shows. One thing that I found very special about China was their manufacturing infrastructure, no matter what you needed, a neighboring factory company could supply the piece or the expertise. When I went to India, Vietnam and Thailand in 2019, I found that TWS earphones and other daily manufactured goods were not available or the manufacturing standard was not up to par. They were specialized in very low level manufacturing of goods that just were not competitive in North America's markets. China doesn't have the lowest labor cost, they have the best expertise, and the amount of infrastructure is astonishing to make sure you can create everything all within China. The critics truly don't understand the landscape of manufacturing and how complex the chain can be when they're just looking at simple diagrams. Corporate knowledge.

[@vivekanandan5093]

We are stepping up our technology constraints and developing the infrastructure for high end tech gadgets to be made in India. We have now Swadeshi (indigenous) 5G. iphones have been assembled here, maybe in near future manufactured, also Samsung has established world's largest factory in India. Everything is about to change as now we are heading towards Semiconductor manufacturing ❣️🇮🇳

[@ST-jy7qm]

Wise knowledge and observation, but since the geopolitics has been changing the global landscape, our observations can no longer be permanent.

[@SolomonSunder]

@@vivekanandan5093 I am really doubtful how helpful it would be in the overall picture. India is way too focused on phone manufacturing alone. I did my Masters in Embededed Systems in the UK and when I came back to India, I was surprised that some the basic components for robotic movements like servo motors with medium precision simply have no manufacturers in India. These motors cost just 10 GBP for a packet of 6. However, in India, you could not import them due to customs etc. I just gave up and went back to my old job. Personally, I think India should make it easier for Chinese nationals to come to India and ask China for a youth exchange programme for Indian nationals to work in China. My relative chose China for post doctorate over Canada, Germany and Australia because you can create prototypes way faster in China. Youth exchange programmes create more exchange of ideas and technology than any official technology transfer agreements.

[@prashanthb6521]

The most accurate comment of all !

[@prashanthb6521]

@@vivekanandan5093 China has finished Post-Doc and is now designing syllabus whereas India is just now getting admission into nursery ! Keep thumping your pseudo nationalistic chest if you are a fan of this govt. I built my home office datacenter, I had to import so many things. Forget manufacturing, the baniyas & marwadis selling here dont even stock any important stuff. They are all short term profit oriented.

[@AshtonCoolman]

An American man working at a factory used to be enough to buy a house and raise a family on that single income. Nowadays a husband and wife both working better paying jobs can barely afford to make ends meet, let alone with children.

[@codelessunlimited7701]

You need to thank you the cheap USD dollar money that's being exported around the world.

[@Keepskatin]

@@naq211 Lies, from a privileged perspective.

[@DanielPennybaker]

@@naq211 Name me a low skilled factory job that pays me 70k a year.

[@bobjohnson6946]

Its that Capitalism you all brag about. Go get a useful degree or trade. The days of being brain dead and surviving are over.

[@Yandel21ableify]

Trickle down economics never worked in America

[@andyjohnson3790]

Because paying for healthcare, workers comp, employer match 401k savings, sick/vacation time, OSHA regulations etc. is expensive in the US and mostly non existent in places in China

[@erianpena2908]

Is important to add that: Most components on smartphones are not produced in the US because there is just not enough know-how on hardware manufacturing development, while Asian markets are better integrated. Samsung and LG are in Korea, they have a huge experience on electronics manufacturing and they’re also part of the supply chain. Foxxcon on Taiwan basically dominates the chip supply chain because American hardware developers like intel cannot compete anymore (they are stuck on 11nm chips while Samsung and Foxxcon are manufacturing 5nm chips which are more powerful and efficient). Even China has more competitive private companies manufacturing 7nm chips. And while Asia keeps developing itself and transforms into a high income region, the amount of electronic consumers increases as well and it just makes sense for international tech companies to manufacture close to their new economic epicenter.

[@BSPBuilder]

If US customers are OK with $4000 iPhone mini, then US can bring back phone manufacturing.

[@carpet8991]

I want mine from China 😂😅

[@KNByam]

What about the carribbean or south America.

[@brandonkim76]

@@KNByam their work ethic is horrible

[@businessmike2371]

@@KNByam QC would be terrible outsourcing to other regions with no dedication to the production principles for technical products. Asia specializes in the business principles to give reasons for outsourcing and investors prefer this.

[@VerryJerry90]

its only $4000 because they still wanna keep the profit margin they like making in Asia versus the levels they would get in North America

[@Kylelongwest]

people in the US don't even want to sell burger at McDonald , i can't imagine them sit at factories assembling phones

[@jiamiekori6575]

Google didn’t lose money selling Moto to Lenovo. They kept all the patents and trades, they sold the name. That was the entire idea of buying it in a first place. Same story repeats with HTC

[@kingcelebate1242]

How about USA stop being in debt to China and Japan?

[@stargazeronesixseven]

Vietnam , Thailand , India & Indonesia are other Good Options in Asia to manufacture & assemble products to reduce Supply-Chain interruption due to Global Pandemic or Political Stand-off! ...

[@capmidnite]

Young people in the West don't want to do tedious manufacturing work. Even Samsung phone factories in South Korea have to use labor imported from Southeast countries. South Korea in fact uses imported labor in industries such as shipbuilding, fisheries and farms. The South Koreans involved in such work are either supervisors or middle aged. Young South Koreans would rather be unemployed than do such work.

[@Cyberbronco]

Sounds familiar!

[@mikerichardson60]

Don't know where you gather such an opinion. Watched a piece on Samsung and a job there is highly coveted amongst native South Koreans. Thousands apply annually hoping to be among the small minority to be hired.

[@capmidnite]

@@mikerichardson60 Read my initial post carefully. The highly coveted Samsung jobs you hear about are white collar positions in marketing, management and engineering that require a university degree. Same for other Korean companies such as LG or Hyundai. The factory jobs are a different category. The senior blue collar positions are stable and pay well, but the entry-level jobs are increasingly being sub-contracted out as temporary positions with no job security. Young Koreans do NOT want to do such work.

[@parthapratimghose173]

@@mikerichardson60 duh that's not for Labour jobs

[@Starship007]

I remembered a few years ago BYD wanted to make electric cars. They hired 10,000 engineers and they lived across the street from the factory. Now BYD is the one of the largest EV companies in the world. Even Warren Buffett is involved

[@scienceisreligion5618]

Warren buffet is exiting BYD fyi.

[@tooltalk]

Buffet started investingin BYD eons ago, but is now gradually pulling out as the gepolitical tension increases. Let's not forget however what China did to protect BYD, CATL and other domestic companies from foreign competition in typical Chinese protectionism. I personally think the Korean battery giants, LG Chem, SK Innovation, and Sasmung SDI, would have swept the Chinese market back in 2015 and on without the Chinese gov't very willful efforts to block their licenses/subsidies.

[@QuietJagung]

@@tooltalk BYD and CATL battery technology are superior to LG, SK and Panasonic.

[@tooltalk]

@@QuietJagung : LFP batteries are not superior -- they are cheaper than NMC, NM+ other batteries dominated by the SK makers. That's why Tesla's non-performant vehicles use LFP whereas high-end models use NM+.

[@QuietJagung]

@@tooltalk LG battery self ignite in GM Bolt EV and had to be recalled. Another car make with LG battery is having the same problem. LG sued SK for IP theft. BYD and CATL also have other chemistries besides LFP. BYD blade battery is best form factor and is a production structural pack. NIO have hybrid battery (LFP and NCM).

[@steam_bigh8899]

When it comes to Apple: They even gave up repairments in the US

[@robinsattahip2376]

Everything about that company and their anti-repair practices is disgusting.

[@441meatloaf]

@@robinsattahip2376 You think its only Apple? Tesla is anti-repair.

[@robinsattahip2376]

@@441meatloaf Then write Tesla too instead of the lecture.

[@441meatloaf]

@@robinsattahip2376 How is this a lecture? A real lecture would be going into details as to why they are anti-competitive.

[@robinsattahip2376]

@@441meatloaf Nothing nicer than the sight of a burning Tesla.

[@chris2009xx]

Nokia phones were made in Finland, Hungary and Germany until 2012. Motorola phones were made in the USA, Ireland, Germany and the UK until the mid 2000s. Gigaset is the mobile phone made in Europe these days.

[@tooltalk]

It's not in Apple's interest to tell the world that their phones can be made outside China affordably. So the media just parrot Tim Apple's talking points.

[@Gunnychief]

I remember my brother would assemble Mac computers by hand in Colorado Springs back in 96. He loved that job.

[@reeboksboiz1266]

If we could that back in those days, we could it this year

[@masonkanterbury3007]

When people bragged about 100 mega byte computers. Now these devices are incredibly sensitive and advanced. In the nineties anybody could build one.

[@papastalin1543]

No developed country can compete cheap developing countries when it comes to manufacturing

[@PHlophe]

Yes we can. for starter if the device costs twice as much to produce in these shores then why not produce a piece that lasts 3 years instead of producing devices that have to be replaced 11 months later when the newer mobile phones comes out. what we are doing is exploiting cheaper labor overseas

[@papastalin1543]

@@PHlophe nah an apple or samsung phone which easily last 4 years are also manufactured in countries like China and India . So it won't make a difference you will lose with twice the price

[@tooltalk]

depends on what kind of manufacturing.. Nobody wants to bring back low-value, low-tech supply-chain (ie, assembly/testing/packaging jobs) back to the US.

[@hameedkhan9343]

Because developed countries use developing countries as slaves for manufacturing products for them on cheap rates.

[@meffendy27]

@@PHlophe good question. why arent people buying a more expensive but more durable goods? i still dont understand? any idea?

[@sahildua4659]

Whatever people said in this but HUGE RESPECT TO PURISM.I personally believe in Made in USA quality.Go ahead PURISM....LOVE FROM INDIA

[@theoneed2051]

Wow. So I heard someone talk about this in twitter the other day; China is no longer cheap, but Tim Cook just put it into perspective. The electronics manufacturing and prototyping is many years ahead of the US. This will crush some people, that still think that people don't build here because companies are just wanting to save money.

[@nickl5658]

Because the smartest people in China become engineers and scientist. While the smartest people in the US become financial analyst on wall street.

[@johnkoh5207]

China has pool of supporting industry and expertise which you can not find anywhere else.

[@tr7287]

i was just literally wondering about this today. thx cnbc.

[@elliottharris9015]

I wish we had a Smart phone manufacturing facility in the U.S. I would like the Learn how to build smart phones.

[@mistamaog]

It may not be impossible

[@jlin7724]

That’s easy. Start with a Qualcomm BSP then customize, customize, customize.

[@dennish5150]

Designing and engineering is different to manual labor and manufacturing. It is not FUN to be assumably worker. 😂

[@elliottharris9015]

@@dennish5150 True.

[@TheTransitmtl]

Why? What do you want to learn? You can become an electrical engineer in the US. I really don't understand your statement. You want to learn to build a smartphone. What does that even mean. Smartphones are computers. You can build a smartphone now with off the shelf components. Start with a logic board, camera, modem chip, sensors and touchscreens. Then iterate to make it smaller and fit in a portable case. Issue is you wont be allowed to have a cellular chip as bands are not public

[@giggsrayn5205]

China and many south asia factory employee working 12~16 hours a day, 6~7days a week. Most of them also live in factory accommodation. 4~8 worker per room share one bathroom without kitchen and living area. I doubt any American or developed countries people will accept this working conditions.

[@tooltalk]

how about all those underage kids assemblying iPhones to get required credits for graduation?

[@user-ix3yh8yt7r]

I wouldn't.

[@gaoda1581]

你说得完全没错😷

[@ch00226855]

that's the truth

[@nova8585]

There are a lot of people in the US who don't want to get a secondary education and would prefer to just go into work, do something repetitive, and go home. I'm talking call center workers, cashiers, etc. I wonder what their sentiment would be for working in a smartphone factory instead of those other jobs since they won't have to deal with rude customers. There could be a bigger demand for these types of jobs than people think.

[@embededfabrication4482]

They don't talk about environmental regulations, companies can dump waste right in the river in countries like this, it's much more than wages.

[@TheBooban]

These factory jobs are sht. Look at Foxxconn work conditions. The only way to manufacture in USA is by raising tariffs.

[@fatcrruise6508]

The cost of educations are expensive

[@LouisSubearth]

@Embeded Fabrication assembling smartphones doesn't represent major environmental damage. Chip making, maybe, but a new chip factory would have a state of the art water filtration system to avoid polluting water bodies.

[@crp5591]

It's not that people don't want to get a secondary education, it's that most CAN'T AFFORD it. For the US to increase worker capabilities long term, it would require significant investment in education access.

[@rubbis3742]

It's good that some companies are starting to manufacture in their own countries. The more competitions the better for the consumers.

[@gloriathomas3245]

You're speaking like a protectionist. And for the record Americans have benefited from our goods being made in other countries if you like the low prices your paying.

[@441meatloaf]

Americans don't want to work manufacturing jobs. Most developed economies has shifted to service based economies over manufacturing. Second. Americans demand much much higher salaries, less efficient, and unions, benefits, etc... all cost too many companies a lot of money to manufacture a single product. The only real manufacturing like vehicles are protected and subsidized heavily by the govt to keep it at home. But more and more domestic manufacturing has shifted to mexico because its just cheaper and the quality is about the same if it was made in USA or Canada.

[@theupscriber65]

@Gloria Thomas good point. Also, where would we get the workers? There aren't enough unemployed people to make everything here.

[@441meatloaf]

@@theupscriber65 Thats incorrect. There are enough workers in America. But the reality is americans do not want low end labour jobs.

[@cachet633]

@@441meatloaf How about fastfood chain? McDonalds, Taco Bells, Burger King, Walmart......Are they high end labour job? In reality they just want easy money and easy job and no skills

[@ChristoRJ876]

For many decades Asia been more smarter at tech than us as in the general population. They grow up in tech friendly environments and by the time they hit teenagers they are smart to write codes.

[@MASMIWA]

Keep in mind that large manufacturing companies in China provide housing and subsidize meals with their own cafeterias. For these workers, they have more net spendable than his/her US counterpart. Public transportation is also much cheaper in China whereas in the US, most workers own their own cars. Some businesses also run company buses to pick up employees to take them to work, and obviously the on-premise dorms for production workers has employees on site so no time is lost commuting.

[@bingosunnoon9341]

The cost of automobile ownership is a drain on our economy. Public transit is far more efficent. It's what you put in the denominator that counts when comparing one to the other.

[@MASMIWA]

@@denniswhite3487 Obviously you are not aware of their living conditions in the rural areas from which they came. They are free to get their own housing, but few can afford it. Living in company housing lets them save money so they quit after saving enough to head back home to start their own businesses or work for a local company.. BTW, why would I like to live in their dorm? I sweated out mortgage payments in the US while I worked in the US before I retired. During the cold war with Russia, the challenge for the US was to beat the Russians. We did that, working like the Chinese 60 to 80 hours a day. We won the day and so will the Chinese. Have you been to China? I have, for 20 years. My son-in-law's company rented apartments for employees to live because the company was not big enough to fund dorms. Two to three employees to an apartment paid by the company. They had medical insurance paid by the company and a year end bonus depending on the profitability of the company. It usually ranged about 2 to 3 months pay.

[@georgiagrace1805]

Do you know what happened recently at the Foxconn foundry in Zhengzhou?

[@clarissagafoor5222]

Plus lower tax!

[@AB-yu5pw]

@@denniswhite3487 Sounds like an entitled snowflake talk

[@Jason-kg3oc]

I’m surprised it wasn’t mentioned that phones were manufactured in the US by Western Electric for the Bell System for nearly a century. These were good union jobs and it all went away after deregulation and the migration to cell phones.

[@mikemoscato2995]

I.t.t. also manufactured phones plus several other smaller manufacturers

[@bryannonya9769]

The story is about how the us was left behind, not about the history of phone, the titles of things usually give away the ending.

[@fitybux4664]

Innovation by those companies was too slow.

[@vbg17]

I agree with Tim Cook for parts and more skilled workers at one place. But China doesn't have the skilled workers overnight. US too needs to identify the location with high population density and encourage skill development.

[@oeao2841]

They didn't fall behind...they simply found a cheaper country to make the products

[@roahnosh]

They did fall behind it's a consequence.

[@jimbrutan_senior]

Most "Made in America" is too expensive compared to China, Japan, India or Africa.

[@saulgoodman2018]

No it's not. Tat's a common misconception. Loot at some tools that are made in the US. They cost the same then if they were made in China.

[@ASK-ko9qx]

@@saulgoodman2018 See that's the problem . You only think of US market. But American companies are MNC, so they have to have high volume to achieve EOS thereby reducing cost and increasing productivity.

[@saulgoodman2018]

@@ASK-ko9qx What? They both cost the same amount. So China is not anymore cheaper.

[@ASK-ko9qx]

@@saulgoodman2018 No I am talking about the volume of manufacturing. America makes only for itself, which isn't profitable. Chinese factories manufacture for world. Although credit where credit is due. America does manufacture a lot of sophisticated things. Medical instruments, Automation tools, Chemical products, Chemical equipment etc. This is America stength.

[@BMWROYAL]

Kinda confused with Japan, what is made in Japan that is way cheaper than the US made item

[@k53847]

It's more complex than that. I knew a guy who was an early Compaq employee and he told me that when they sourced parts from Asia they came with strings, like doing assembly in Asia. And some technologies basically now only exist in Asia. For example, hard drives and LCDs. The designers might live in the US but there is no manufacturing of the components in the US.

[@GonzoTehGreat]

What you're saying is true, but it doesn't make it prohibitively expensive for companies with high margin products, like Apple, to relocate their manufacturing to North America (or Europe). If Apple was forced to do so (by either/both the Chinese and/or US governments), they'd make it happen, by using some of their huge cash reserves and profits to invest in building the necessary supply chains for factories and providing training for the skills needed. The reason Apple isn't doing this already is because they don't need to, as: (1) it's still cheaper and easier for them to employ skilled Chinese (or other SE Asian) workers (2) they've already set-up manufacturing supply chains to China/SE Asia, which represent a fixed sunk cost (3) they've already saturated developed consumer markets with their products, so future sales growth will come from currently industrializing countries with a growing middle class who can't yet afford their relatively expensive phones/tablets/laptops, but will soon be able to.

[@k53847]

@@GonzoTehGreat I've heard that Cisco is moving more manufacturing to Mexico. Which is an option for lower cost assembly operations. But until there are, for example, flat panel display plants outside of Asia (and Wiki lists dozens of plants with only 1 US, 1 German & 1 UK) then that can't fully happen.

[@kknn523]

Most of the money is made in the selling of the product, not in the manufacturing. So, the Chinese factory or global factory makes 10% of the retail price. The company selling the product makes 50% of the retain price.

[@k53847]

@@kknn523 It's not about making money in manufacturing. Cisco makes no money for 450 days after an order is placed when they have a 450 day lead time for a million dollar router due to a $3500 power supply that comes from a plant in Shanghai.

[@GonzoTehGreat]

@@k53847 I agree, but with the caveat that it's difficult, but possible, as stated in the video at 6:54. These US companies spent a decade moving their manufacturing abroad, so relocating it to the USA will require a similar period of sustained, long term investment and commitment, which is probably only worthwhile for certain high margin products whose manufacturing can be largely automated.

[@mxr572]

Apple pays slave fee to assemble. charges high price. pays little taxes in USA. moves profits offshore. etc.

[@9B17]

Not just cheap labor cost. The speed too. Go search “fast Chinese worker”. A Chinese worker is 10x speed faster than American. And they can work beyond 12 hours per day. If you want American labor work like them, they will sue the company and go on strike.😅

[@Akjugo]

Yeah it’s almost as if Americans don’t like being exploited 🤔🧐

[@jimjohns2017]

@@Akjugo But Americans don't mind buying cheap goods made under conditions they would consider exploitative if they had to work under those same conditions.

[@kekeshuoshuo]

It seems Elon is trying to force twitter workers to work like that. It’s not going well.

[@homelander746]

@@kekeshuoshuo well Twitter deserve that

[@citrustaco]

It’s all about labor costs. The skill comes second which is why they are pushing in India. The reasons electronics aren’t built in the US are the same reasons they aren’t built in Europe. Lots of skill there. Labor costs are too high.

[@Keepskatin]

@Brian Wrong❗It's Greed, labor cost are dirt cheap in China, so of course greed seizes that opportunity. Labor cost are too low in America.

[@se7enzee444]

China just has many young people who are very hungry. When China lifts all the restrictions, just go to Shenzhen, Shanghai and other major cities in China. You'll see what I'm saying.

[@se7enzee444]

@@Keepskatin The labor cost in China is low but not the lowest in Asia. Americans are just not hard working as Asians because they can't turn to their governments for handout.

[@Keepskatin]

@@se7enzee444 You're just a lying lazy immigrant who doesn't know what hard work is. People like you should be deported. It's always about money, manufacture and pay at the lowest price, sell at the highest.... Capitalism 101. Pick your feelings, the Truth hurts.

[@elfaranelasul6886]

and they can't complain unlike in murica, everyone complaining

[@franciscoa3978]

When demand for these e units be it smartphones, EVs, TVs become satiated in the states I see manufacturers returning to the USA for labor

[@too-oldforthischet8463]

I'd be retiring or working less in 5 years and I'm only curious how people split their pay, how much of it goes into savings, spendings or investments?? I earn around $165K per year but nothing to show for it yet

[@hobbs252]

I noticed, a lot of folks are making huge 6figure killings in this downtrend, only just that such technique are mostly successfully executed by folks with in-depth market knowledge.

[@kozovski6628]

@@piercejordan5335 Please can you leave the info of your investment advisor here? I’m in dire need for one.

[@Green-ed7wq]

@@piercejordan5335 thanks for sharing this, I googled the lady you mentioned and after going through her resume, I can tell she's a pro. I wrote her and I'm waiting on her reply.

[@1mezion]

First of all companies didn't just decide to move to China I remember when they first moved to Mexico and the primary reason listed was cheap labor cost. No matter what is said and done it comes back onto the customer you look at two basically identical items on the shelf and you decide to buy the cheaper one, that has an effect.

[@stevebabiak6997]

The Librem5 phone mentioned in this video is a great example. Made in USA version costs $2000 retail, made in China version costs $1300 retail - basically identical except for where it was manufactured. Most people are likely to keep that $700 in their pockets if they are just buying a phone; but I suspect this phone is being purchased by people who WANT a Made in USA product.

[@1mezion]

@@stevebabiak6997 Yes

[@99names16]

That’s why you need regulations. There Will always be a cheap country for labor. Profits have gone WAY up since the 80s . But wages have not. As it stands - companies like Walmart killed competitors by dodging taxes, pay employees so low that many are on government assistance , you and I are subsidizing their income..so companies don’t care about America. Or Americans.

[@neighborhoodsquirrel2504]

This issue about out sourcing manufacturing to foreign countries has been happening for over forty years. When Clinton was president, his secretary of education Robert Reich said we don’t need local manufacturing. We will be a service provider country. We will send everyone to college, and teach them to provide services. He said this on an ABC Sunday morning talk show!

[@poconopatriot567]

America last has been in the works for decades

[@GotoHere]

Let’s quote Clinton, bush 2, Obama, and sniffy Joe. “We’re going to retrain the American worker for the high tech jobs of the future”. Those are computer IT jobs. Jobs that go to h1b visa workers from India, Russia, Eastern Europeans and other countries. The rats sold out Americans.

[@grahamjones5400]

Environmental and worker safety rules, that's why. Large multinational corporations hate rules that make them clean up their mess and not abuse people. American workers would make an big scene in public every day, tarnishing the company's public reputation, and nowadays if the workplace sucks many employees would just stop showing up entirely, regardless of how much they got paid.

[@tomallen6073]

I’ve worked in U.S. manufacturing for 7years, finding skilled labor that actually wants to work is very difficult. Workers under 30 here simply don’t want to work and many don’t want to educate themselves. A company may want to manufacture here but finding the people to do so is difficult.

[@zkilerex9661]

Bcs no one wants to be stuck in the matrix working shi**y job for low pay chek working 12hours a Day for 1000$ in europa its the same no one wants to do that stuff for cents when the job is very annoying and bad for mental health

[@MoneyRemote]

it's not difficult to find workers when you're buying their labour instead of pretending America is replaceable in the name of bottom line. buy labour, get workers. it truly is that simple, but investors are a special kind of brain dead and only see numbers. That's why they pretend the Chinese are more skilled than Americans since they're the cheaper labour. It's not just skill, it's literally the wages and power trip managers like you lol. The moment you pin an age to your anecdote, you become a boomer. it's much more likely that people under 30 simply just won't tolerate your disrespect, which you think is "authority".

[@FinancialShinanigan]

Expensive phones would be more expensive if Made In USA

[@joejacko1587]

by about $50 to $70 the markup is so high on them it wouldn't make much of a dent the problem is the supply lines are no longer setup for here

[@tooltalk]

considering Apple's margin, it wouldn't make any difference. China's contribution to each iPhone is only about $10 -- you triple that, we are talking $20+ more per phone. Apple buys their phones from Foxconn wholesale at < $300 and flips for $800-$1,000. They could tolerate $20-$30 without going bankrupt, no problem. Apple = Make China Great Again.

[@TheBooban]

@@joejacko1587 you think China had supply lines back in the 80’s? Or Vietnam? They had nothing but dirt. American political stupidity gave them those supply lines. And they can move anywhere.

[@joejacko1587]

@@TheBooban yes MR make America great again opened China Ronald Reagan however companies in Korea and Japan gave them those when China started buying from them now adays everything has a computer chip back in the 80's it wasn't so the manufacturing of them didn't exist on a scale like it does today

[@danielch6662]

@@joejacko1587 you're expecting that if costs goes up $50-$70, then selling price would go up $50-$70? Anybody who's more than 12 would know from their own experience that this is not realistic. If the $50-$70 is 50% of the costs, then you can expect the selling price to go up by 50% as well. In a product with a high margin, this 50% would be a lot more than $50-$70.

[@jedinite241]

These things need to be explained better to the USA public They think ONE person elected or becoming super patriotic can fix the economy ... IT WONT. We have a serious IQ problem here in some areas

[@ZainKhan-sm8gr]

Those emojis are so cool! How'd you get them?

[@1mezion]

Will they listen, the English were warned about the consequences of brexit and they choose the ignorance of racism now they're paying a price higher than many other countries that simply had the effects of covid & Ukraine Russian war to deal with they crashed the economy with brexit and the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of workers that helped to support the economy.

[@Cyberbronco]

@@1mezionwe’ll see.

[@Cyberbronco]

Actually you are wrong. China is where it is today because the government subsidized and invested heavily to put their country on the map. You don’t go from a 90% agricultural population to 80% industrial in 25 years just by being cheap labor. Trillions of dollars in government investment made China what it is today. Communism is amazing at this. If any country wanted to do what China did it would start at the government level and yes, a pro-American president is the only thing that could get that started.

[@jedinite241]

@@Cyberbronco Actually you are wrong. This isn't an absolute Monarch being taken over by its own people. We already have Trillions invested by people all over the World and neighboring allies and THEY didn't sign-up for the lil Non-democratic picture you just painted. You're not talking about making this country better with a pro-American president, you're talking about ending the one we have now 😝

[@mitchasris3267]

The fact that they can move making iPhones to India, means it’s more about having lots of cheap labour vs actually wanting skill and talent lol

[@justanotherperson2576]

What do you think your iPhone's gonna be costing if the labour comes into the factory by a 4 cylinder car, using the same apple product, paying atleast 600 dollars in rent while all he's doing is putting screens on a smartphone all day?!!

[@jghifiversveiws8729]

@@justanotherperson2576 The Iphone will retail for the same amount it'll just eat into apples profit margins a little that's it.

[@gauravdey4163]

India is the second largest manufacturer of smartphones in the world. India produces equal number of STEM graduates as china and thus the skill level is very high in India too.

[@AB-zl4nh]

And that's why you're not an executive of a multinational company. India has 1+ billion people. More STEM graduates than the USA, cheap labour & more democratic than China. Several positive factors.

[@mitchasris3267]

@@AB-zl4nh stop pretending like quality of stem education isn’t important and then you’ll realize it’s always about money literally nothing else!

[@ctbt1832]

The price is as being paid for the smart phones are the same prices that would be technically charge if they were made in America but because it’s me outside of America cheaper, the owners want to keep all the money

[@bryannonya9769]

Had you simply said "greed" it would have actually made more sense than what you wrote.

[@Exyvia]

You don't blame the manufacturer (Unless of course its a scam), its fundamental economics people want the best bang for you're buck. China makes everything from High cost to the cheapest, with the economics of scale and connections to supply chain. Obviously customer is king, so the public buyers are not buying American made products due to people not thinking it's worth the extra for American made. Also why I think Chips will fail ultimately due to supply chain and high skill laborers.

[@julioduan7130]

TSMC has decided to send 300 engineers to the USA in the next week. All these 300 engineers will be given US Green Card immediately.

[@TheBooban]

Ffs you just raise tariffs and not allow imports like China does to everyone else. Its not rocket science. USA gave all their tech to China and let them import everything while China doesn’t do stupid sht like that.

[@raycomeau6866]

@@julioduan7130 Wonder how many will stay in the US once they see what things costs, the hostility towards Chinese people, the violence, the crimes, the use of drugs and the infrastructure?

[@cinpeace353]

@@julioduan7130 If US subsidies phone industry like they did in chip industry, yes, it could happen. It will depend on how many voters willing to subsidie profitable business.

[@bingosunnoon9341]

I buy custom PCBs from China in quantities less than ten. These boards cost less than ten percent of those made in the USA. The quality is excellent. The myth of economies of scale is just that, a myth.

[@007ismi]

Don’t believe Tim Cook saying cost isn’t low in china. The core objective of any company is to manufacture its products at the cheapest cost.

[@John_Smith_86]

He is saying that that is not the most important factor. That supply chain logistics can be even more important.

[@tooltalk]

@@John_Smith_86 : and you know that's a pure bull crap. Tim Apple said the same thing (and a bit more) 10 years ago -- the company has invested well over $270+B in China to train local workforce and build supply-chain in China. Apple can do the same here in the US. Apple = Make China Great Again.

[@John_Smith_86]

@@tooltalk And who is going to pay for all that? The US government? I don't think so

[@tooltalk]

@@John_Smith_86 : Apple has plenty of money in their offshore tax-heaven. Also we are not asking for donation from Apple like the CCP did -- they will get their return on investment and guaranteed access to the US market. Apple = Make China Great Again

[@John_Smith_86]

@@tooltalk Yea, right. You want Apple to spend its own resources to deliberately build up a tech manufacturing eco-system in the US, for the benefit of the US and other tech giants, but without the same State support as from China. Does that sound good to Apple?

[@MOBMJ]

I'm a huge Apple Fan and love my country, Purism is the Perfect example of manufacturing in the USA. I'm a Capitalist too Though, and I understand that you need your cost low to make a profit and have a competitive price to cater to people with a wide variety of incomes. Also need the company to make profits to pay its employees and the company to still survive. We NEED to get out of China though, and stop relying on them. to make our products. a lot of People don't quite understand this but China needs us more then we need them. Think about it, Chinas economy is built off of cheep labor. We meaning out economy is built on so much more. Finance, Technology, Movies and Films, and much more.

[@Drhomelander]

Hahahaha china doesnt need usa now. China is more interested in other countries. China already has all the power necessary to succeed, that is why the US is scared 😂😂😂

[@CausticLemons7]

I'm glad the video eventually asked 'why'. I support more jobs, more business, more investment in America but why specifically do we need smartphone manufacturing? I think improving our digital security and strengthening our privacy laws can reduce much of the risk associated with smartphones.

[@aniym21000]

The biggest employers in America are Walmart and McDonalds. In China it's Foxconn and China Natl Petroleum. Consumption vs production, doesn't bode well for the US if relations get worse.

[@dekyne3227]

You got to look at the pollution that comes with manufacturing, lots of citizens in the US are going to rightfully complain while more developing countries don't really have a choice if they want to grow

[@sonnyjs15]

Exactly. Why dump in OUR yard or drill OUR oil when they'll do it? I don't like it....but I'd do it. Like Neegan.

[@kjrchannel1480]

The USA supposedly leaned not to pollute while manufacturing. Most other countries have not, but that pollution comes back to bite everyone in the world. My solution is stop buying so much electronic junk to satisfy the investment leaches.

[@kknn523]

Air pollution, and water pollution only is an issue where it's near excessively compact manufacturing regions. America won't have that issue if manufacturing is ramped up. The fact is, America is uncompetitive in low to mid end manufacturing. It will lose to China, India, Vietnam, Africa, Mexico, and so on.

[@kknn523]

No matter where you manufacture it ends up in the earth's oceans and into the earths atmosphere. Don't be cringe.

[@kknn523]

@@karltyler586 Remarkably racist. And, remarkably inaccurate. Canada is more authoritarian (Canada is forcing mentally or physically disabled to assisted suicide. And, pushing lgbtq and radical liberalism). The expertise, and workforce in China for that field is superior to the many of the neighbouring nations, and USA. It's a competition, and in that specific competition China is superior.

[@hometechUK]

Same reason most tech is not made In the UK & Europe, wages are to high, the companies would have to reduce their profit percentage or increas prices.

[@njonjokibera9587]

Or they can even outsource those jobs to Latin America or Africa instead of China. Mexico and African countries the labor cost is really cheap. You can even improve their economies

[@SolomonSunder]

@@njonjokibera9587 Brazil does do some manufacturing. Africa is simply too disintegrated politically. Ethiopia, Kenya, Ghana and South Africa are the only ones with some human resource skills. Even amongst these, there are tribes which are oppressed but have enough power to bring these countries down. I am from India and even here, not many companies will invest in our North which is volatile and has religious riots. But we are a political unit and hence migrants from volatile areas become a source of cheap labour in richer areas instead of ending up in refugee camps in their own regions..

[@WongTanabaNg]

Thank You. Informative, short message

[@bingosunnoon9341]

I worked for an American company designing phones. I saw it happen in real time. We fell behind in phones for the same reasons we fell behind in every other area of manufacturing except guns and other weapons.

[@nnnnnn3647]

The problem is with the scaling of production. There are months when Apple needs a million more people, and then their work is redundant. Imagine employing a million people in the USA. They have to pay all year round. Even if they don't do anything.

[@mentalizatelo]

The US even fell behind guns and weapons too.

[@robertamcguffin3446]

What were those reasons?

[@ahotdj07]

Pretty interesting. I always assumed products were made in China because of low labor costs. Granted that is still a factor, it is a small factor, as I just learned. China has the skilled employees to do the work. So only makes sense.

[@joejacko1587]

when it comes to skilled employees in electronics America has the best that's why airplane electronics are made here despite what they say its the cost and since the cost have gotten high in China companies are now moving their factors to India on of the real problems are the supply lines here the parts to assemble to get here would be longer and cost more no country just makes a cell phone all the parts are made from many different countries it wouldn't be economical to make the whole thing that requires 100 s of parts in one country

[@ShUisREAL]

Thats just what Tim Cook and the other CEO's want you to believe. At the end of the day the real motivation for all of these Corps is dollar bills. So they can dress it up however they want. If they came back to the US and there was the potential for 10,000 new manufacturing jobs the American work force would train and be just as skilled as need be.

[@kineticstar]

@omni okay CCP bot. World class infrastructure included the nets to catch the suicide victims at Foxxcon?

[@MA-go7ee]

@omni It is absolutely because of lower costs. Not only for labour (a worker in the US at literally *ANY* level is significantly more expensive than one in China) but what you can do with that labour. When a company I worked with made a last minute revision to a component in their product, their manufacturer who had staff living on site woke them up and had them working double shifts to fulfill the order. Not to point out the obvious but that would be impossible in the US or anywhere in the developed world. They also have fewer regulations for safety, labour, process etc and the regulations they do have often aren't enforced. This makes for FAR less costly manufacturing. You're delusional if you think it is anything else. BTW manufacturing is not moving to India for similar reasons - they have extremely unfriendly business regulations. But manufacturing IS moving to Vietnam though.

[@DZ477]

That's what Tim Cook says on the surface, but deep down he knows that $3/h is better for him than $15/h.

[@deehitem]

It’s simple, it costs too much money. Shareholders of Corporations aren’t taking a loss.

[@BureaucracyWorld]

I have been working in the US manufacturers for the most of my life. You will lose money when you are manufacturing products here in America. The attitude of employees here are to take advantage of employers as much as posible. They take too many time off and holidays, take more breaks, smokers even have more breaks. They are lazy, and finger pointers. They sue employers for any working rights. Jobs not done in time. Americans fingers are too big can not handle small parts. Americans eyes are blurry when looking at small parts or items for long time. And employers are hiring employees from Asia or local minority. So what is different making here or overseas, when your labor force are still depending on immigrants.

[@c.rutherford]

Your views are puzzling, as America is the only country I know of that doesn't guarantee any sick leave or paid time off by law. As an American in tech when I worked as a 'subcontractor' for IBM our European clients would take off for Christmas a week earlier, stay on vacation a week later, and called us workaholics while we were ordered to hold the fort every time. In fact we didn't even get paid for the 6 days a year that were holidays, just got docked. Also you could schedule a week's vacation once a year but you got docked for that too so a lot of people just did a few days and tacked them on weekends. I always told them we don't do it by choice, we just want to keep our jobs! I remember one Christmas year they emailed me a "Happy Holidays", and I couldn't resist and replied back, "Even Ebenezer Scrooge paid his employee for Christmas day." They never sent me a holiday email after that, heh.

[@SpiritsBB]

Good news piece. All of them actually know what they're talking about.

[@Firestorm637]

Remember everything made in Japan60-70’s. If not for China most middle class could not afford much

[@TheBooban]

Because your middle class lost all their manufacturing jobs. Duh.

[@sonnyjs15]

@@TheBooban 😂😂😂😂

[@sonnyjs15]

@@TheBooban 😂😂😂😂

[@giridharkatikapalli9894]

Hourly rate is not the only factor, the productivity is more important.

[@msbrownbeast]

The level of productivity is higher in Asian than it is in America. Workers in America are spoiled by the 40 hours (or less) work week, union protection, fringe benefits and they F...fing complain. . Workers in Asia mostly work 6 days a day.

[@sgallegos702]

@@msbrownbeast it takes 4 Asians to make up the productivity of 1 American.

[@atlien1988]

@@msbrownbeast Luxembourg has the highest productivity in the world by a wide margin & they also have a 40-hr work week & better employee benefit/rights. Y'all literally get on the internet & type nonsense.

[@msbrownbeast]

@@atlien1988 And yet Apple, Nike and Gang are manufactured in Asia.

[@msbrownbeast]

@@atlien1988 Yeah, but would they work for about $4.00 per hour assembly iPhones? $4.00 can't even buy you a decent coffee in Luxembourg.

[@DiarrheaBubbles]

why? 1) Investors demand sustained annual growth. 2) Executives who can't drive growth through improvements to production cut labor costs by outsourcing labor.

[@xcmskim4]

Companies will constantly move their factories to developing countries for cheap wages. For example, Samsung used to manufacture all their flip phones in Korea. The first few Galaxy line smartphones were also made in Korea. Samsung started to move their plants to China and now all their phones are manufactured in Vietnam. LG's last smartphone was also made in Vietnam. No Samsung product sold in the US is made in Korea anymore. However, due to washing machine tariffs from the Trump era, all Korean brand washing machines (LG, Samsung) are now made in America. The answer seems to lie in tariffs. However, this will cause price increases for a consumer looking to buy a washer.

[@geraldmaxwell3277]

Tariffs have worked very well for the EU. The reason why Germany is still heavily industrialized is largely because it imposes tariffs of between 25%(minimum) to 100%(in the case of Chinese steel) on all non-EU products with the exception of products from Least Developed Countries(those products are not from manufacturing, mostly things like tea, coffee and flowers)and nations the EU has trade agreements like the US. In short, Germany and to a lesser extent France and even the UK to a small extent before Brexit had established a closed market for their goods because even if Chinese goods are cheaper, the tariffs would raise their costs to parity with European made goods.

[@xcmskim4]

@Jk I hope they do. Its ashamed that even Jin Ramen sold in the US is made in Vietnam. I hope conservative president Yoon keeps manufacturing in Korea.

[@deafea4867]

@@xcmskim4 they will never come back to their homeland unless Korean people agreed to decrease their salary by 3 4 times

[@amazon4716]

China is one of the nation Exporting talents around the world. Tech and science.

[@theolich4384]

And the US doesn't want them because...national security! Oh how ironic.

[@amazon4716]

@@theolich4384 🤣 you do know that the nuclear fusion Is a collaboration between Russia, China, US. Etc.

[@beniceandhappy]

How do you protect it from your own gov agencies. Do you provide backdoor in hardware or you use the software they are comfortable?

[@pasta-eo5mt]

The main reason I bought a Moto X back in the day was because they were made in the USA. Unfortunately, most consumers didn't care. I was hopeful that Google would continue to build phones here. Turns out that they primarily wanted Motorola's patents.

[@easyxpress]

The so called "Made" in the USA for Moto X was actually "Assembled" in the USA. All the parts were shipped to Texas for assembly. Even so, there were too many problems of the factory. Google wrote off this as a big loss after a few months.

[@pauldavis221]

@@easyxpress Quite right... All internal components (capacitors, semi conductor substrates etc.) were made in; Taiwan, Thailand, China or Indonesia, and occasionally; Japan. As you say, just because its assembled somewhere, that doesn't mean its made there... Big distinction!

[@tooltalk]

@@easyxpress : Yes, just the same way iPhones are "assembled" in China. China still to this date only provides low-value, low-tech components and labor for iPhones. Most important high-value chips come from either South Korea, Japan, Taiwan or the US (mostly IC designs). China imported over $400B in semiconductors last year in fact despite Apple's huge efforts to develop China's own domestic chip industry -- to the detriment of the US chip industry.

[@teranova5566]

Yes you are right, the China does not have high skill workers to produce advanced high value IC. These are produced in Taiwan, Korea, Japan, USA. China only collects all these elements with the low level elements and assembles them into final product. So Tim Cook is wrong, it is not the problem of lack of high skill workers in USA. The wage difference is also not that big USA 7.25$ and China 3$. So what is the reason that similar product in China costs 100$ and the same assembled in USA 2000$ that is 20 times more, as presented in the video ?

[@eudofia]

@@teranova5566 The simple answer? Greed. Well, it's volume. A factory in China can churn out millions of products, while one in the US can only make a few thousands. So a Chinese factory productivity is higher. So, they can afford to sell at a lower price point

[@jeffruebens8355]

For phones, you can buy a very good Samsung, Apple or Pixel for about $800, instead of a Made in Murica $2000 phone. I think all of them have Corning glass made in Kentucky.

[@crs50]

not only IPhone not made in US, ALL AMERICAN PRODUCTS LONG TIME AGO ARE MADE FROM INDIA, PAKISTAN, VIETNAM, BANGLADESH, CAMBODIA, INDONESIA, JAPAN, TAIWAN and CHINA!

[@apooh3051]

You have to ask Apple that but the answer is obvious. Unless the US starts to put in a VAT tax for imports, every imports will always be cheaper.

[@D4PPZ456]

It would be cheaper to make goods in the US if the cost of living was lower, but the state has consistently failed to respond to the inflating costs that they had a hand in creating. Often, they intervene too much in a market, or simply not enough in others, which leads to those CoL amounts which have crippled their new generation and market outputs.

[@brucekatkin5310]

Well, are you ready to work for $3.50/hour? This is what Chinese factory workers make in Bejing.

[@luiscuba9188]

@@brucekatkin5310 yes we could very well tax offshoring of jobs.

[@luiscuba9188]

@@brucekatkin5310 which used to be the norm back in the 30s all the way to 60s:)

[@ilyes.meriane]

I think Mexico would be a better place to manufacture electronics ,it has cheap labor low taxes and the advantage of being close to the us ,it will increase the dependency on us suppliers for electronic parts also decrease the price of the final product by decreasing logistics and shipping cost.

[@D4PPZ456]

@@brucekatkin5310 you realise that the number value of your wage doesnt determine what you can buy, correct? I'd rather make .20 cents an hour than what I make now if I could afford to buy anything I wanted.

[@harrywilliam8740]

In china and india lot of engineers working for foreign projects. Europeans and usa businessman says giving 1 person man power cost to their own people is so costly. In these cost they can give 10 people even more in china and india. Most of optic fibre route and fire and safety design for building in construction, software and hardware and lots of design products are design manufacturing and planning by Asian countries.

[@CalebDance]

Most clothes and shoes are not Made in China anymore due to high salary, phones are now making in India and Vietnam.

[@catbangs276]

15 years ago, I supplied the tape components that went into cell phones, visiting design centers in USA and manufacturing plants in Asia. The OEMS (Apple, Nokia, Motorola, Samsung etc) don't really manufacture in Asia or anywhere else, the bulk is done by contractors. The biggest being Foxconn. So if Foxconn doesn't want to build in the USA, it won't get built in the USA.

[@juanmigueloctaviano6736]

The real reason for the decline in US manufacturing is to decrease the number factory workers which is the support base of industrial Unions.

[@babagandu]

Yes and so people move to cities and vote democrat NWO

[@tooltalk]

unions overplayed their luck and drove out manufacturing jobs out of the country.

[@TheBooban]

@@tooltalk thats stupid. Globalists set it all up, dropped tariffs and moved factories abroad.

[@sm3675]

Blame Ronald Reagan

[@danielch6662]

@@tooltalk you and Juan are both right. Much is said about American workers being more productive. The truth is, they are not. To a capitalist, a worker is a worker. Yes, you can boost the productivity of American workers with automation. But you can do the same with workers in Vietnam and India as well.

[@johnnygoods1232]

A lot of skill for cheaper prices is what he should say

[@joejacko1587]

you can be icd 10 certified is less than a month and be way more skill than what they have hell even the Germans copied that standard and a lot of companies in electronic manufacturing pay to have their people take it its not the skill its the fact they will work them 12 hours and pay them nothing f the real problems are the supply lines here the parts to assemble to get here would be longer and cost more no country just makes a cell phone all the parts are made from many different countries it wouldn't be economical to make the whole thing that requires 100

[@danieldecides7894]

The Purism company looks good. The most powerful point made was regarding the machine versus machine as opposed to labour costs for employees. On the basis technological advances facilitate higher reliance on robotics as opposed to human beings - then i disagree with the sentiment by one of the guests who says the jobs or rather - manufacturing does not return to the US. If you wanted to have the manufacturing return - my point is that via technological advances - time for transition and a shared implicit objective of state and industry to secure or whatever narrative is being flogged - perhaps rebalancing the economy - but with a shared objective - the means and time the process is doable. On the other hand - you could just have some homemade stuff like the Purism folks highlighted and maybe go into even cheaper spheres for imports via the Indian sub continent. It is hard to imagine that fundamentally - whatever attempt of Tim Cook and others provide - the margins that took Apple to a trillion plus are inseparable from pitching up tent in China long ago. All that compounded growth has built up and well done to them - the idea that it is a skills issue primarily is pretty lame. The graph showed the Chinese go from 300 billion in exports to over 2 trillion before the turn of the century in just a decade and a half or so. That has nothing to do with skills shortages - it is staggering margins and effectively the business model replicated by others has amounted to less - phone or tangible 'things' being publicly traded on exchanges. But far more so - cash machines. The cash generated from a combination of brilliant design and ideas and engineering and slave labour going back many years - compounded by a desirable brand - well, that led to Americans and the developed world gorging on imports and the exporters internally rebalancing poverty and reconstructing their modern arranged societies. Meanwhile the developed states saw a significant uptick in unhealthy people and profound disparities and i think consumerism and debt. That is a simplification but it is sobering to consider that the very same people you now call a threat or menace are those to whom you have dined out on for a generation. It is a staggering computation - if people don't have a sense (an applied one, more often than not relative to humanity as a whole in terms of number) of loyalty with regard to fellow living things - namely people. Then it is most clear is it not? That countries have no remote applied sense by equal measure of friendship or loyalty or anything close to that - they simply have intetests that flip like a coin in seconds. If the state or power structures have such features most manifestly - then it reasonable to return to something i heard Max Keiser say - 'America is an idea - I can start that anywhere - anyone can' This from a guy who leaves his own country but might return. The point is that people are governed by stupid decisions that are often short sighted and so why on earth should people not act equally by prioritising their self-interest? In conclusion, I agree on balance that significant proportions of the main economy are probably imported still but to a lesser extent with regard to certain things and possibly even lesser still if technology alters the dynamics further in time. Please do a video on American citizens views on wages and disposable incomes and universal imcome conception. I would find that interesting and as well, the ordinary folks views on the ability of technology and bad people to implement discrimination and hardship on citizens no differently to past junctures that saw the same in America exacted by equally unpleasant folk albeit more overtly - namely, banning certain people from neighbourhoods with regard to prejudice versus modern day algorithms that achieve the same objective. You then extrapilate that theme to employment and education opportunities and whats the difference from the Soviet Union? Its a serious question - I think all of us would be enhanced if you devoted a show to exploring some of these issues. Thank you.

[@markiobook8639]

No, manufacturing was not exported from USA, it was from the actual source of the industrial revolution and steam technology- UK. Adam Ferguson on pin manufacture (subsequently Adam Smith on the division of labour): "by Every undertaker in manufacture finds, that the more he can subdivide the tasks of his workmen, and the more hands he can employ on separate articles, the more are his expences diminished, and his profits increased." Example 2: Joseph Whitworths standardisation of bolts and fixtures.

[@chriscross1737]

America also does not accept that China is now a magnet for skilled workers. Most of the skilled workers from different countries within the Asian region now works in China, and America is lagging far behind. Because companies focuses on returning investor investments, which drives profits, America will sink even further when it comes to manufacturing.

[@tofuyam7361]

Its not coming back because there are 4-5 BILLION people in Asia, the future customers of all products vs 400 million in North America

[@jetstreamdefalpha5411]

Total of five Ford F150's in our family. Three of those are made in America. One in Mexico and one in Canada. That's due to the trade deal with canda and Mexico, but ither way Outsourcing is #1

[@captainplatypus4328]

I like the purisim phone. Sounds like if we just move gradually the US can succeed in bringing manufacture back to the US. Kinda funny how the college professor and initially the US stratiegic initiatives director, and apple engineer shot down the feasibility of building such infrastructure and supply chain. Slow and steady wins the race. This is a matter of national economic security just like the American shipping industry.

[@jordihako2867]

It's not just phones, all manufactures are made abroad , just look around , all clothes. Plus it's not just the US , even worse many need to import energy and food they consume as well. People in developed countries work in the domestic service sector mostly.

[@orainer687]

2000$ for a smartphone that has similar specs to phones costing less than a 100$ in china lmao. yeah manufacturing isn't coming back to the US

[@jackychick]

Steve Jobs autobiography explained why he chose China to manufacture iPhones there. The huge number of regulations and critically the YEARS needed to get permission from America would mean Apple could finish building factory and start manufacturing in China. So even if profit margin are the same in both countries, Jobs would have chosen China! Jobs then complained that if America wants to attract investments, the country better creates an favourable environment that welcome businesses as much as China does.

[@fitybux4664]

If they have a phone that even grossly resembles a made in the USA phone (like the Librem 5, because technically the CPU is not), those items should get special tax credits. I should be able to buy a Librem 5 phone for $100 with a $1800 tax credit.

[@KayyHong]

Tesla built its Gigafactory Shanghai in 10 months and ready for production. Try to do that in the U.S.

[@alanbejarano4940]

I work for a Taiwanese electronical manufacturing company here in Mexico, and I can pretty much confirm this is not a "skill" issue for any matter; it has always been labor cost. There are companies that even employ some other Asian region workers like Phillipines. They are offered shelter and food inside the manufacturing site, so they can easily stay 24 hrs available for any overtime event. People should really stop drinking the "lack of skill in the West" kool aid.

[@tooltalk]

That's what Tim Apple and co. wants everyone to believe., so we can't critize Apple's wholesale outsourcing plan.

[@hezekiahwallace2412]

Very interesting how 3-D print technology was not even mention for future manufacturing.

[@lordlee6473]

Lol. China dominates not just manufacturing but in innovations too, only US is on par with China when it comes to innovations and a lot of these breakthroughs inside US are led by ethnic Chinese. China dominates in manufacturing because of many factors, the least of which is “cheap labor”, as labor isn’t cheap at all in China, similar to cost of Eastern Europeans. Being the largest consumer market and trading nation, having superior infrastructure, educated and disciplined workers, superior work ethics, entire supply chain located in one area, business savvy owners, smart policies from the government all contribute to China’s dominance

[@pykemid3954]

this------------->Being the largest consumer market and trading nation, having superior infrastructure, educated and disciplined workers, superior work ethics, entire supply chain located in one area, business savvy owners, smart policies from the government all contribute to China’s dominance

[@8BitNaptime]

Tim Bajarin is a legend. If you listen to him on Computer Chronicles you'll understand.

[@lrobie123]

when Google bought Motorola Mobility (after 2010 sometime), Google tried manufacturing phones in Texas (previously manufacturing was in Tianjin) for awhile but that was short lived. Lenovo bought the company and manufacturing went back to China. In the 90's, Motorola Mobility manufactured phones in Illinois (imagine that).

[@masonkanterbury3007]

But they were BIG, and all the sensitive components were made in China.

[@xxxCHAIxxx]

There's really only one main reason, these companies don't just want a lot of profit, they want all the profit. If they can make one more penny per product by moving overseas, they will. Its been shown that companies can still be profitable manufacturing in the U.S.

[@unnamedness]

The US never has this high tech manufacturing I agree that it's difficult or impossible even to set it up. Just because there is so many skilled labor required

[@ivanteo1973]

You must be living in your wet dreams. High Tech Manufacturing was transferred out of US in the process of Globalization. Where do you think F22 was manufactured? Shenzhen?

[@theunnamedness]

@@ivanteo1973 its the truth. the chips are made in Taiwan/Korea . thats it. There is no chips manufactuering in the US. They are just not capable, there is no enough brainpower for it. Listen to Tim Cook, the reason for Apple to be in China is not because of low wages, but because of skill. There is so much brainpower in CN that you just can't compete with it. Without so much skill/brainpower, you can't manufacture such a high tech.

[@ivanteo1973]

@@theunnamedness There is no chip manufacturing in China. CN is brainless. that's why they can't make any chips. You need brain. No brains you can only steal.

[@unnamedness]

@@ivanteo1973 for brains you need China, for skills you need China. US does not have as chip industry. They want Korean and Taiwanese come to US for the chips; no way.

[@ivanteo1973]

@@unnamedness China is junk, no one needs junk. Without US, you can't make chips.

[@JPTech933]

I'm in Canada, we and the USA are very well established trading partners, as well as friends and trusted neighbours. I believe that robots and automation just like Tesla in California has invested heavily on, is one of the solutions for bringing high end and well paid manufacturing back to North America. The Canadian government realized during covid that no Canadian companies could produce the vaccines! because the last pharma production left Canada 20 years ago even if their are pharma headquarters here. Montreal where I live had a well established pharma up to the 90's. We were also well known for producing textiles before the 80's. What is still functioning in both our countries is auto manufacturing, so in my mind there's a way to bring back or create the rest.

[@cachet633]

Hey man, you are wrong. Even Tesla is made in China. Google it

[@davidwestwater2219]

I don't think the future of Canadian auto manufacturing is all that great. America's Auto Giants are in trouble right now.

[@traveler1683]

If you had trouble training a worker to operate the assembly line , do you think you could train him to operate the robots

[@cachet633]

@@traveler1683 ???????????????

[@traveler1683]

@@cachet633 which part you don't understand. Robots require skilled and dedicated workers as well, more so than what's required now. If Canada couldn't make it now, what makes you think it would be different with robots