Are B&M's roller coasters getting worse?

[@AVdE10000]

I hope B&M never abandons their 4-across trains. Besides being super iconic, it also has a social aspect to it that 2-across trains just can't match, increases capacity and makes the track look way more impressive and intimidating given its massive width

[@tractorgt]

Interesting I've felt the exact opposite about their gigas. They just can't match feeling of speed of the Intamin 2 across. I also despise the clamshell restraints. The trains feel heavy and slow. Orion at our home park Kings Island is relatively boring, especially already having a better overall ride in diamondback.

[@cgm58]

@@tractorgtYes, I agree. I’ve been on Orion, and it’s not one of my favorite B&M’s. The layout isn’t the best, and the clamshells don’t help either like you said. I prefer Millenium Force at CP (home park).

[@AVdE10000]

@@tractorgt I think B&M's in general are just less forceful or aggressive than your average Intamin mega/giga, hence why they feel more gentle. As for the clamshell restraints, I adored them on Shambhala, and found them good enough on Silver Star. The seat arrangement on the former definitely adds to the comfort though. Haven't been on any of the American B&M's, though I'll make work of that at some point

[@jonny-b4954]

@@cgm58 Nah, the clamshells are fantastic. I've had no ride give me the ability to get the air time I get with a couple inch loose clamshell restraint.

[@cgm58]

@ I’ll agree, the clamshells do allow for some good airtime. I think I’m just used to the basic lap bar. I also feel like Orion’s layout doesn’t encourage lots of airtime. I will say I have done Mako at SW, and that is one of my favorites with clamshells.

[@amarug]

I did a PhD in mechanical engineering at ETH Zurich in Switzerland and some of my peers at our research institute went to work for B&M. I guess I should invite them for a beer and a "sit down"...

[@wickedsickfunkyfreshroller2037]

Tell them to get it together, I love B&M layouts but Iron Menace is not fun to ride

[@jankoch267]

As for Voltron: I was at the press event and they told us they are testing different Wheel Materials and other variables on different ride vehicles to test comfort but also longterm reliability. Thats why some trains are quite rough but others are buttery smooth even on the outside seat.

[@Carter-nl2]

That Rapterra clip has caused so much debate in the coaster community lol

[@KingsDominionfan50]

When it really shouldn’t.

[@Galistia]

@KingsDominionfan50 It really should. You can see how bumpy the launch is just by looking at how wavey looking the tubes are. It's like they straightened the tubes by hand.

[@KingsDominionfan50]

@@Galistia looks like any other type of track by this company.

[@Carter-nl2]

@KingsDominionfan50 The kd glaze account is back

[@Galistia]

@KingsDominionfan50 You can literally see a difference with examples of straight track in this very video lol. Stop coping.

[@rct2nerd]

The tolerance theory makes sense. Orion at Kings Island and Candymonium at Hersheypark opened the same year, but Orion has a rattle while Candymonium doesn’t. We know that Hersheypark paid $150 million for the new entrance and roller coaster, and Kings Island paid $30 million for Orion. It’s possible that Candymonium is smoother than Orion because Hersheypark paid B&M more to make sure that the tolerances were smaller than what Kings Island paid for Orion because of their larger budget.

[@KingsDominionfan50]

Orion was glass smooth when I rode it.

[@Coastercapitalusa]

In like 2021 and 2022 it had a rattle but when I went for haunt it was smooth and it was smooth in 2023. So they fixed something

[@Darkage-io4sl]

Yeah I rode Orion last year and it was smooth then as well. I never really got why people thought it was rough but they must've changed something like people said.

[@scottyale2931]

I wonder if the trains aren't made well. I went on Iron Menace twice. Once it rattled bad, and the second time was smooth.

[@DoomPlague]

KI is my home park and I usually ride Orion 3-5 times per visit and its always glass smooth. So I never understood the claims that it has a rattle. Banshee, on the other hand, is a completely different story.

[@thomaspower9351]

On nemesis reborn, one train is butter smooth and perfect, the other is rough (not just a faint rattle) to the point it bashes your head and I very often hear non-enthusiasts complaining

[@nightwoo_]

Dont know, but umm waiting for top thrill 3, reimagined by Togo

[@coasterbot]

Hell yeah

[@Spike-sk7ql]

Now just hang on a sec. They might get Top Thrill 2.5 out nest season.

[@DanTheCaptain]

A stand-up Togo TT is terrifying!

[@iliketrains3546]

@@nightwoo_ and then TT4 made by Jinma

[@thisisjustanchannel]

Yeah, ive said this once and ill say it again, ive done madrill mayhen and nemesis inferno enough times to tell you that new b and m is pretty 'rough' HOWEVER, from what i can tell, they are still hella realiable, as ive never seen mandrill mayhem gone down.

[@JazzManhattan]

Thorpe Park is my local and nemesis inferno seems to have a lot of down time

[@Q4Coasters]

Nemesis inferno isn’t new its from 2003

[@thisisjustanchannel]

@JazzManhattan yeah it seems as they are even more reliable

[@iliketrains3546]

@thisisjustanchannel I’ve seen mandrill Mayhem valley before. Don’t even ask me how it happened lol

[@AG7-MTM]

Hey, what about Gerstlauer's eurofighter & infinity trains? Those are wide 4-across trains too!

[@coasterbot]

I was going to write that point into the script, but then I thought those Gerstlauers aren't exactly known for their smoothness either!

[@leeriffee4606]

There is also Skyrush at Hershey and its near twin in the middle east. And yes, the outer seats on Skyrush can give a pretty rough ride, especially towards the back.

[@DrCranberry]

As a machinist, it should be noted that decreasing a tolerance would NOT effect quality of the material being made. I.E Steel is still Steel even if i'm machining a part with .0001 mm tolerance, or a part with .05 tolerance. What most likely has happened could be out sourcing. Many manufacturers will outsource their designs and parts to other shops that are better equipped to handle it. A good example is the scene from Batman Begins where Alfred says, "Problem with the graphite, the NEXT 10,000 will be in specifications". Basically one company could have made a couple THOUSAND of specific parts, and messed them up. Well, now you either have to USE the part, OR the manufacturer has to back pay for lost time and quality if it's even in the contract. So my guess is, they did a bunch of testing on the sub-par parts and found there wasnt any other stresses/safety concerns on the train itself to warrant remanufacturing a couple hundred thousand parts so they rolled with it which is VERY common in the manufacturing world.

[@Nobodyisperfect-us6pk]

Why the hell my post was censored by KZbin? So post again: For Mack Rides; the Stryker coasters are prototypes and it is not an issue with the track, it is an issue with the (Late EDIT: Trains not coasters), which do still not work as expected. But they know, what is wrong, also as combination of different factors, in fist case the temperature and the load factor. One of the trains (I think train 6 of the 7) was driving with a full sensor/test pack and was regular used for tests, new/further developed parts, other wheels, winter wheels e.g. And as "Patrick Marx", the main designer and responsible for the Voltron coaster project, has confirmed during a fan meeting in last weeks, they are aware, they will fix it during the 2 month off-season, starting in few days. And if this will not work as expected, they have an "ace, that will always work". So it shall be fixed soon. And for Hyperia, one of the trains was brought back to Germany to fix it.

[@sHiNjEeK]

Voltron is fixed, they'll make the adjustement on other trains in winter off season

[@wickedsickfunkyfreshroller2037]

Its crazy that there are 25 year old B&Ms that are still glossy smooth, and for some reason they changed their design and most of their new coasters are rough.

[@tjmartinez1505]

POV: Montu and Phoenix rising

[@JuddsonPlayz]

Yea I rode penguin trek made by B&M at sea world and it has so much rattle

[@Thermo-certified-trash]

B&M rattles and rough are not the same thing, new b&m’s are barely rough

[@JuddsonPlayz]

@ the new ones rattle

[@Thermo-certified-trash]

@@JuddsonPlayz ik, but the thing is that the rattle isn’t even bad.

[@KingdaToro]

Iron Menace feels like they used autocomplete to finish the layout

[@TheBroz]

I went to Florida a couple of months ago and rode everything at Busch and SeaWorld. The rattle of Phoenix Rising, Penguin Trek and Pipeline was palpable. Considering how much I adore most of the other B&Ms at those parks it’s deeply disappointing.

[@coasterbot]

That's interesting to hear! It'll be interesting to see if newer B&M family coasters have the same problems

[@ritainez10]

I rode Pipeline in 2023 and I don't remember it being problematic. Maybe I got it on a good day. But I'm sad about what I've been hearing about Phoenix Rising and I hope they fix it for Wolf's Revenge.

[@AaronTheAdventurous]

It might have something to do with the train. Look at Phoenix Rising’s train vs a Vekoma Suspended Family Coaster train: B&M uses a central inverted T-shaped column that holds both seats and connects to the chassis under the track. Vekoma on the other hand uses a single column for each seat and has shock absorbers attached diagonally. The seats therefore can swing slightly to each side, whereas they are fixed in place with B&M's design. That makes a change, doesn’t it? To further add to the train design theory, look at Mack Launch Coaster trains. Every one except Hyperia uses a Y-shaped column to support the seats. On Hyperia this has changed, as a cross shaped structure has been added between both seats and the column is now more a half circle than Y-shaped. In the Voltron Documentary the designer said that the cross structure was added to the outside seat to have better support and make it smoother, so the same thought has obviously been applied to Hyperia. According to this Video, both Mack coasters have a rattle (I haven’t been on both, so I can’t judge that from own experience), but feature an updated train design. What does this mean though? A single centre attachment for two seats is resulting in a rougher ride than one attachment for each seat with shock absorbers. Additionally Mack has noticed this and has strengthened their train design by adding a cross structure. Vekoma however has eliminated the issue by a clever design. This train theory doesn’t translate to wing coasters though, so there are other factors involved too. It is a pretty profound problem at this point.

[@jaydenchrist6152]

Hope B&M turns it around soon. Their new coasters arent bad though.

[@coasterbot]

I agree, they look fun!

[@jonny-b4954]

I think the B&M rattle has to be simple, they raised their tolerances. Mack/Intamin and all them use/used to use 5mm or so tolerances. B&M used to be all within 1 mm manufacturing. They clearly got rid of that to be able to compete price wise. Likely after covid their major projects were likely approaching $40-50 million. So, they did what they had to do to cut costs. Maybe also in combination with cheaper steel. I think they've also lowered the weight of their trains or something. Maybe more give in their wheel boggies. Let's also be real, basically EVERY coaster has rattling, shuffling and minor jackhammering in high g-force areas. I notice it on essentially every single coaster I've ever been on.

[@ryancommenter-r7o]

this is the best take iv ever seen of “B&M is bad”

[@AnotherSwissYoutubeUser]

I just rode Voltron, middle seats are PERFECTLY SMOOTH, it's only the outside seats that are SLIGHTLY BUMPY.

[@acowwithlegs]

That would make sense because they aren’t being supported from directly below by chasis

[@luizaferrari]

It depends on the train. Some of them are rough anywhere you seat - believe me, I have ridden a few times and had some terrible experiences along the way (and some great ones too)

[@CZsWorld]

It would be concerning if the trains are the issue because that means the parks will likely have to spend money on new training in the future. Could be a lawsuit there.

[@EmberMcLain87]

haven't done any new B&M coasters yet, and I won't be able to till 2026 when I can ride the new big bad wolf coaster. but yea it's rough hearing from a lot of people on here the new B&M coasters either have a slight rattle to them or have a sudden jolt at some point during the ride.

[@tjmartinez1505]

Prove me right or wrong opinion: Phoenix Rising is already rougher than Montu Context: I rode both today and phoenix rising already has a SEVERE rattle and is rough.

[@SpiderWaffle]

10:10 This is such low quality track. Buyer's surely are eager to pay a little more upfront to get the track reasonably smooth, straighter than this crap. It will reduce maintenance costs significantly and probably save them money over a 10 year period. Not to mention keep guests much more satisfied with their rides and park experience. Why would anyone want to spend more money to get a much worse product?

[@KingsDominionfan50]

Very nitpicky

[@LyndsieDances]

What opens first, what opens last top thrill 2.5, falcons flight, sirens curse or wrath of raksasha

[@brandoncole5533]

1. Sirens curse 2. Wrath of Rakshasa 3. Top thrill 2.5 4. Falcons flight

[@coasterblocks3420]

I think parks are spending too much on theming in what is essentially just a station building, maintenance facility and glorified cattle pen. And parks get dazzled by gimmicky ideas offered by manufacturers like “world’s first inclined turntable” (a low speed switch track as it turns out) on Jungle Rush at Dreamworld. Urgh! It interrupts the ride experience, cuts a short ride into two very short rides all to give a sub-par dark ride moment. And they had to construct an enormous highly themed but ultimately pointless structure just to accomodate the turntable. This new Vekoma also is not particularly smooth. This ultimately takes funds away from the ride itself. I want a great ride experience, the longer the better. The station and queue just needs to be comfortable, aesthetically pleasing, efficient, with good landscaping - an effective theming tool in itself, ending in a minimal structure. Ultimately, I’m there for the rides, not the queue-line.

[@Duuhvis]

When I went on Fury 5 years ago, I had an amazing night ride on it. We went back the next day and experienced the worst rattle I’ve ever experienced on a B&M. 3 rides in I had to deal with a migraine for the rest of the day at Carowinds. I have no idea what caused it as I rode it the night prior and it was very smooth.

[@coasterbot]

I rode Fury 325 last year and found it to be incredibly smooth for the speed it goes!

[@diarmaidmoloney5611]

Monster in Stockholm is probably the last glass smooth B& M

[@lightningboat]

Mako, Candymonium and Pipeline are great

[@MattMcIrvin]

The B&Ms I've actually ridden are all older ones, so I don't have an opinion about recent changes from personal experience. I haven't experienced the "B&M rattle" on those older rides though I know people have complained about it to some degree for many years. I do know that personal assessments of roughness can be strange. There are several coasters I have always found either smooth or tolerable which other people describe as the roughest boneshaker they've ever ridden (wooden coasters especially). And others where my rides seemed to be rife with jackhammering and other enthusiasts don't seem to have a problem.

[@bocahdongo7769]

TBH the problem isn't merely newer B&M is more shaky But newer Vekoma is somehow smoother than them

[@ndelli23]

Great video and great topic! I don’t think B&M deserve the patience for figuring out family coasters. They have done the family suspended model before and have done the elongated trains for their hypers with narrower seating. Candymonium is the only coaster that I’ve ridden from them post-2020 that is as butter smooth as their earlier installations. I wouldn’t be surprised if Hershey shelled out extra $ to ensure a higher quality ride. Likewise, I wouldn’t be surprised if the chain parks that have purchased recent B&Ms have opted to save money at the cost of quality.

[@iliketrains3546]

11:20 not to mention Guerstlauer’s eurofighters and infinities which are both know for being pretty rough with 4 across trains

[@benrockstar574]

When I have ridden it voltron ir was very smooth and I loved the ride after I came out I was runners high and thought that the waiting of 90 minutes was deserved

[@JRS06]

I wouldn't want B&M to go bust or stop making coasters. They made my two favourite rides at Alton Towers after all (Oblivion and Nemesis: Reborn). Of those two, Oblivion is still fairly smooth, albeit it's a lot rougher if you do sit on the middle of the back row. I can't remember Nemesis: Reborn well enough, but I hear people say the original was a lot smoother. Maybe new B&M coasters just need time to get smoother and better adjusted to running? I'm no expert though, so I can only guess.

[@Jeff321]

I rode Orion shortly after it opened and the rattle was bad. A brand new steel coaster should be much smoother than that. I am worried about Wrath of Rakshasa.

[@coasterbot]

Orion seemed okay to me last year, the only problem section was the helix really

[@Q4Coasters]

I know you said you had no engineering knowledge but the way this video was formatted and explained you would have me in disbelief haha! B&M is still my favourite coaster manufacturer and while it is a shame to see their quality change, its annoying that everyone is focusing on it so harshly when other coasters have had similar issues of worse for a long time, I really hope they succeed as they have some of the most interesting ride types out there

[@coasterbot]

I'm a data analyst by trade, it's all telling a story based on the data you're given! I'm glad you enjoyed the video too! B&M are still top in other categories, especially reliability. Smoothness aside, their rides continue to seem more reliable than others.

[@MrCliffda3rd]

For now Kumba's fate is unknown, possably sealed due to the sinkhole that opened up in one of the ponds behind her, effecting the concrete supports. Same going with Congo river rapids.

[@Hieagandaus]

It’s not even the rattle it’s their lack of innovation in their layouts. B&M either focuses on airtime hyper coasters or inversion driven wing and dive coasters. It’s like they’re scared to replicate what makes RMC, Intamin, and now Vekoma rides so much fun.

[@cgm58]

I will say, I don’t mind B&M’s inverts. I remember riding Dueling Dragons at UO, and I liked that ride. I’ve also been on Raptor and Montu). I think Montu’s my favorite because of the pace/intensity. It’s been 2 years since I’ve been on it, but I still remember the experience! I’ve also done Raptor and Valravn at my home park. The final brake run on Raptor is the only rough part for me. Valravn did seem to have a shake from what I remember. Banshee is good as well. I don’t remember a shake on Banshee. The first drop is one the best for me though.

[@IxBl4ckH4rtxI]

working at CSF, if you know you know, what i think is happening is newer "engineers" coming up with different ideas than the older generation whose no longer with us. these changes have begun some sort of butterfly effect. it practically hurts seeing how all the negativity rising

[@Neptune5111.1]

it's probably whoever they work with they need to change who they work with

[@tractorgt]

I'd look into interviewing a cedar fair ride inspection employee (yes I know it's six flags now, but you'd want them to be from a cedar fair park because of their maintenance standards). They notoriously disassemble and rebuild all trains from all coasters in their off seasons. Probably have some insight from year to year as to what might have happened. My buddy is the maintenance guy for Kentucky rumbler but not a b&m. But he'd talk to me about it, so I wouldn't see you having a problem getting an interview about maintenance.

[@Saltinator]

I'm thinking they cheaped out on Iron Menace (because it was built in a lower mid-tier park) and B&M didn't build the ride to the standard tolerances they typically build their rides to. For me though, a little shake and rattle adds to the ride. Headbanging is a different story. You get what you pay for.

[@chrissharratt8042]

The tolerance theory is the most likely reason. The original cost of Nemesis was £8M and Reborn’s total project cost was £10M. So close in price without taking into account over 3 decades of inflation! I don’t mind a little rattle as long as it’s stays that way - Icon is a great example of a small rattle staying just that. I have to say, my two rides on Hyperia were absolutely awful and I left early due to a headache from my body being thrown about.

[@X-L-C]

Note: the reason why the track makes an echo is because they use another different type of item to make the track (leading to the downfall of B&M)

[@karlrobinson4887]

You failed to factor in the contractor who actually assembles and installs the rides. B7M ships the coasters out as kits with blueprints and instructions. Local steel fabricators are hired to assemble them. Their craftsmanship plays a big part in the quality of the finished product.

[@GeForce_Productions]

coaster bot just dropped 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥

[@daanbos5918]

Those complaining that about a less than butter smooth ride have never been on a proper wooden coaster such as Joris en de Draak in the Efteling

[@kimann6936]

Ryan the ride Mechanic did a good video about this (titled b&m shake) He has mechanical knowledge/experience, and presents good theories on what's going on.

[@StepsOfStPhilips]

I didn’t find Dr Diabolical’s rattly. I enjoyed it but don’t really get dive coasters that don’t plunge into pits. The B&M Superman at Fiesta was the worst B&M I’ve ever been on. It was so rattly that it gave me a headache. Which meant I had to go and couldn’t have a third ride on Iron Rattler, which was a walk on.

[@samuelzackrisson8865]

jinma ride's drop coaster copy is only 6 wide so you do make a point there

[@KingsDominionfan50]

The whole Rapterra thing has been blown out of proportion. People are out here acting like the launch is going to ruin the ride or something but it won’t. This ride will be a huge success for Kings Dominion rattle or not.

[@theballingboi5360]

I would say that the trains are likely not the issue. Looking at that launch video of Rapterra, you can clearly see how uneven the rails themselves on the track are. The seats all bounce going over the same spot. The jolt on Iron Menace is also like that, it happens for each row individually as it goes through the section of rail. I would certainly say the manufacturing of the track is the issue. The idea of parks asking for cheaper B&Ms also doesn't make much sense to me considering how many coasters Mack is selling recently, same with Intamins. If a park is looking for a cheaper option, it would make more sense to go with Vekoma or Zamperla, so I don't think B&M would try competing with that market.

[@10thdoctor15]

I can understand B&M wanting to keep their costs down, but there should be a lower limit where they want to maintain quality and uphold their reputation. That said, less 'nerdy' enthusiasts like myself won't notice, so making family coasters is probably a good idea.

[@stevemac2009]

I hear talk of the B&M rattle, but I’ve never experienced it. Even when others say they have on the same ride I just don’t notice it. I have experienced some headbanging, most noticeable on my recent trip to CP on Rougarou and Raptor.

[@coasterbot]

I agree, on the older rides the B&M rattle is often non-existent or if it there, makes no real difference to the ride experience,

[@Spike-sk7ql]

Could it POSSIBLY be that the cost to manufacture track with such tight tolerances would be so astronomically high, that, in order to still be able to sell their coasters, they had to cut manufacturing costs, to make up for the price of steel going up? Like, I heard KI spent nearly as much on Orion, as Carowinds spent on Fury. Could it be that the parks just wouldn't be able to pay for a coaster of old B&M standards?

[@uujims3762]

Phoenix risking 100% rattles more then montu in the same park (bush gardens Tampa)

[@uujims3762]

I can’t spell bruh. Rising*

[@WatchfulWRollercoaster]

B&M are fast and sometimes even good thrills.

[@TrueLies23]

The track is still made to the same tolerance, better than the competition by over a milimeter, and looser track tolerances wouldn't equal savings the way the track is made, so it almost certainly is the trains.

[@TheBatwave]

Maximus - Der Flug des Wächters is new and that’s rough too

[@michaelcarter8020]

I don’t mind roughness and shakiness along as the ride has intensity. Outside of their inverted coaster B&M seems to lack intensity.

[@Saltinator]

Older B&M's are definitely more intense. It seems the older they get the more intense they are.

[@gerarddip]

Yeah, I feel like they used to be much snappier and featured more verticality, especially with the inversions. Alpengeist is still a contender for my #1 favorite

Budget cuts and outsourcing. Parks are no longer willing to pay $50mil for a new coaster.

[@ballbag]

Any coaster looks shaky when viewed with that depth of field

[@SeanJohnson-v8v]

I feel the rattle is so small honestly. but its weird that this is on brand new rides like penguin trek.

[@coasterbot]

I agree, on the older rides it makes zero difference.

[@JungleJetAviation06]

I rode Scream at SFMM about a week ago and MY GOD it was AWFUL, and this is coming from someone who’s favorite coasters are B&Ms. But I think it’s the old trains and why MM hasn’t bought new ones from B&M I’ll never know…

[@TheRyanjones]

I still think the Rapterra thing is because it was 35 degrees when that video was shot.

[@KingsDominionfan50]

That makes sense as well

[@CarolinaCycloneJames]

There seems to be a difference between Mack rides in Europe and Macl rides in the US. Every Mack ive been on has rattled and seemed to have pivoting issues. Especially copperhead strike. O havent heard of many of those issues overseas

[@Casas-Brawl.]

I rode helix and the Big Dipper in walibi Holland and they are not the roughest coasters but they are very shaiky

[@reddcube]

A little shaking doesn't mean B&M has lost its quality. For example X-Flight has always shaken a little (especially during the in-line twist), and that a coaster from 2012. The theory that tolerances have changed in order to provide cheaper rides is always true, Engineering is about making compromises to deliver a quality final product in a reasonable timeframe and budget. Amusement Park always want to save money when buying new rides. But they also return to B&M because the rides are safe, high capacity, and thrilling.

[@KingsDominionfan50]

Might wanna tell that to galistia

[@brianmacdonald7297]

I'd like to say this is just internet criticism blowing a small issue out of proportion...but I rode Iron Menace on passholder preview day, before hearing any other opinions of it, and I can't deny that jolt near the end that everybody talks about. If the problem is in the trains, that gives me hope, since the trains are rebuilt every year, and fully replaced periodically. Perhaps we can look forward to higher-tolerance B&M trains before too long.

[@RollerbazAndCoasterDad]

I think maybe they are. If nothing else they are not pushing the envelope much right now.

[@SpikePBB]

Doesn't explain why Nemesis Reborn now shakes - the trains weren't replaced. 🤔

[@LLLLLLLLLucas]

Yeah but they were completely stripped down and refurbished

[@maxhagenauer24]

B&M is to roller coaster manufacturers like Caterpillar is to construction tractor vehicles, they are of the most expensive but also the most reliable. It's teally sad to see how their smoothness fell off abd your theory with tolerances may be true. I'm no engineer but even the thickness of the track being slightly different can cause issues with roughness like this. The price of steel has gone up more and more over the years, I wonder if they cit back on that as well then.

[@oneandonlysound99]

These new B&M's don't feel like they are brand new B&M's. They feel like they are 10 year old B&M's on opening day. If it really is a case of "you get what you pay for" I do not think they are thinking long term. It's insane that Montu is way smoother than Pheonix Rising. The smaller seating for Fiesta Texas "Cliffhanger" is disguising how rattly the outer seats would've been if it had a few more. I like that coaster, but I hope they will start thinking long-term. It's going to begin annoying the parks and the parkgoers, casual or not. When they are building suspended coasters and people would've preferred a Vekoma instead, well the latter has come very far from the days of murderous SLC's but c'mon. Gerstauler has been doing four-accross for a while too (and gotten rid of OTSRs in many cases) and I don't see any change in quality there. If Rapterra is going to be rattly x3 from day one than I hope SFGADV goes with Vekoma for a new multi launch coaster instead of B&M or Mack, though I'd have an extreme spinner there. TBH they shouldn't be rushing and should be adding back in a few flats and RMCing El Toro instead.

[@dustinkuebler4801]

If the were rough (actually) they'd be fun)

[@WolfRaging95]

I’m nervous for Wrath of Rakshasa.

[@Anthomemes]

X-Flight is the last B&M Six Flags Great America got. I wonder how it compares?

[@WolfRaging95]

@ X Flight was very smooth when it first opened. Over the years it got quite bumpy. It’ll be interesting to see how this compares.

[@ThousanWhite]

Again, no. Their reputation has simply been overstated. A lot of their coasters were rough and uncomfortable decades ago, which is several of them have already been retracked, moved and converted into new designs. This also isn't unique to B&M. I think this is a classic case of cherry-picking as some of their SPECIFIC models are usually consistent and smooth like their sitdowns and hyper coasters. However their inverts, stand ups, floorless, and dive coasters have ALWAYS been a little rattly, aggressive, and sprinkled with a few potholes. I would argue that it’s because of their wide diversity of coasters that it’s easy to falsely pick and choose.

[@zacg_]

Interesting thoughts. I guess in this sense it's similar to how Disney has let quality slack in many ways at their parks in recent decades but that hasn't actually hurt their bottom line. We keep talking about Disney's day of reckoning coming for leadership making bad choices but it hasn't happened. And even if somehow Epic Universe overturns WDW as the dominant player in Orlando, it won't change the dynamic at the other Disney resorts. Maybe B&M has made a calculation that cutting quality is genuinely a viable and even wise long term strategy. Maybe they'll keep ahead with some degree of mediocrity as long as their rides can stay open and aren't a nightmare for maintenance. Sad but it might be reality.

[@camikelly2356]

Good video, Harry! That was very informative. Now it makes sense why B&M coasters have gotten slightly shakier. I haven’t yet experienced any of the newer coasters, so I wouldn’t have known they had this issue unless I heard from other enthusiasts.

[@Heifer2997]

Yes

[@SunnylandProds]

Should’ve gotten a Vekoma…

[@nathanmcmenamin3748]

ive been on older ones... newer ones... went on batman its first year at great america... i notice no difference in any of their coasters... I think most were just spolied by them... we were use to arrow coasters when they came out and they were a cadillac compared to them... now we have super ultra smooth coasters coming that are more buttery then b&ms.... i dont think they have changed... we have gotten more picky is all.

[@nathanmcmenamin3748]

also are they really THAT rough... they certainly are not painful

[@Itsyaboyharry98]

All the new B&Ms I've ridden as of late have been on the shaky/rattly side. Surf Coaster was the least noticable, while Penguin Trek was the worst. Iron Menace had a nasty pothole comming out of the immelmin when sitting on the outer seats, and pheonix rising is just vibrates the entire time. There's also odd wearing visible on the track from uneven contact from the wheel bogies. Rapterra looks like it could be the worst one yet based on that launch video.

[@KingsDominionfan50]

Gonna have to disagree about rapterra

[@SansRobot]

Never rode a b and m and thought it was amazing.

[@Heatherofscots]

I really like most of their inverts ( Montu and Alpengeist are top tier for me) but I think their gigas are overhyped for the most part.

[@iitzfizz]

It's pretty crazy how B&M would go hand in hand with quality and good, fun, intense rides with great consistency. Vekoma used to be the bogeyman (no pun intended) but no are putting out some world class attractions. The tables seem to have turned. The last B&M I rode last season was Nemesis inferio... sorry, Inferno and it was pretty rough and jolty...I've not done any of the new ones but that seems to be a thing with all the newer ones too. Old school B&M's used to be a good ride more or less every single time.

[@gamesmaster1060]

Mabye they cut costs somewhere after covid

[@Saltinator]

They changed the type of steel they use to cut costs after the prices hikes due to the pandemic.

[@hearingthesmells2500]

Omg coasterbot!!!!!!

[@coasterbot]

Hey I'm back from the dead!

[@hearingthesmells2500]

Was going to send a search party 😂

[@DanTheCaptain]

I think all of this is over blown. Enthusiasts can be a bunch of princesses and they act like this is the end of the company. I read Behemoth at Canadas Wonderland and that has developed at bit of a rattle. Albeit it’s an older ride but, for me the rattle doesn’t detract from the ride at all. So what it isn’t glass smooth. It’s still an amazing ride. Now, if it was as rough as Wildebeast or an Arrow looper, then I’d understand the complaints. But to me it’s all just whining and it’s gotten annoying by now.

[@coasterbot]

It's all relative really, as said you few B&Ms are as rough as arrow loopers

[@AmusementParkGuy]

Dorney park on a coaster not numbnail

[@marcymeowzers]

WELCOME BACK!!

[@coasterbot]

Thank you most kindly!

[@slambrecht6]

wah wah wah

[@quilliecat]

Great video! I'm just concerned about this reduction in quality when Vekoma is making glass smooth rides at a cheaper cost. Not sure if this is sustainable for B&M especially now with more Vekomas popping up than ever

[@katschaccc]

B&m rides got boring. Back in the days I was so excited to ride any coater of them. But now that I did a lot of them I already now what a ride will feel like depending on the model. Other manufacturers like intamin or vekome are better in mixing up their rides. And especially vekome is the new smoothest ride manufacturer.

[@KingsDominionfan50]

Nobody cares but good for you.

[@Blast2224]

One thing I’ve noticed is while B&M loves setting up Dive Machines with elaborate lifts, drops, and elements, they never put care into the ending. When it was a 200+ height like SheiKra, Griffon, Yukon, and Valkyrie or whatever its name is, you could end the thing with a water break run and call it a day. When you shove a dive machine into a drop only 150 feet at most, apparently that means the ending is a janky bunny hill or helix.

[@ryancommenter-r7o]

*no.* you enthusiasts are

[@adariusreese6615]

No it’s not

[@wilsonalbuquerque4339]

I loved your video! I'm Brazilian and I've never been to a B&M, but I dream. Sorry about the other manufacturers, but none are as iconic and have so many highly praised roller coasters as B&M. Its layouts, tracks and trains with four people side by side are unmistakable. Intamin and Vekoma in a recent turn have received much praise for their recent creations such as the "Velocicoaster" and Vekoma's familiar inverts. Congratulations to them and may they continue to do so. But I watch a lot of content about parks and roller coasters and the complaints about the loss of smoothness of B&M's new roller coasters are very high. Practically unanimous among enthusiasts. But I loved seeing your point of view and theories, it makes perfect sense. Apparently this small drop in quality to improve prices has worked because there are rumors of the first B&M coming to Latin America, in Brazil very soon. In the Beto Carrero World park. They say the announcement will be made later this year. Let's see. Rumors of a Dive or a Wing.

[@Fazcoasters]

Menace is a fun ride, but you can tell it should be a little smoother. That kink at the end is a major flaw but I don’t blame B&M for that and I’m confident that was a construction defect

[@ssuuss539]

B&M is premium they are supposed to be expensive

[@coastersaga]

Exactly. I've ridden enough coaster to know what true roughness is (Arrow loopers, Nighthawk @ Carowinds, Zasmperla Volare, etc,) and to anyone saying B&M is rough in 2024, just shut up! Behemoth at my home p0ark is rattly due to it being a 2008 coaster and not being retracked. Gatekeeper was smooth as butter. Valravn, same. Raptor, same. Montu, same. Apollo's Chariot, same. Kumba only had a rough spot in the interlocking corkscrews that bashed my ears on the restraints. Dominator was smooth. Alpengeist, same. Leviathan, same. Griffon, same. SheiKra, same. Yukon Striker, same. Banshee, same. Great Bear, same. Pipeline, same. Vortex @ Carowinds nearly busted my balls. Rougarou @ Cedar Point was rough. Diamondback was smooth. Fury 325, same. Orion, same. Afterburn, same. Candymonium, same. Apart from Kumba, Behemoth, and Vortex, I have _NOT_ done a rough B&M. And they are one of my favourite manufacturers!

[@MichelleRyanDeFina]

I hope they get better soon, cuz let's face it, their rides have potential (and already suceeded)

[@snakeeyes8312]

yes! i’m so glad people are talking about this. i remember riding penguin trek for pass holder PREVIEW, and it had a strong rattle. I was so shocked, because it wasn’t even officially open and was rougher than so many other b&ms i’ve ridden that are 10 or 20 years old. i noticed the rattle on phoenix rising as well, this has definitely become an issue

[@AwesomestParks]

B&M coasters are more raddling & shakey Penguin Trek is like that and that JUST recently opened

[@chipdale490]

Shouldn't have gotten a B&M. Oh, wait.. 😅

[@coasterbot]

Uh oh

[@ajtopia]

I believe that it’s a cheaper type of imported steel in the track? I just hope they can fix whatever is going it