Coffee Tech Df64V Coffee Grinder: The Ultimate Review

[@hash5191]

I appreciate the honest tasting and results, gives a better and realistic look on what to expect.

[@Its_katriiina]

I appreciate you showing how to clean the grinder. A lot of reviewers forget to show this important part of owning a grinder. And I love how easy it is to dissemble! Looks like a winner!

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Glad it was helpful!

[@sAmiZZle82]

The 600 rpm is better for uniformity which is great for brew/filter coffee as it has less fines. You need a reasonable amount of fines for espresso to balance the cup. Hence why the higher rpm gives you more balance :)

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Great point!

[@sickhcivc]

Ive been working this poor breville barista express for 7 years and finally pulled the trigger on a Lelit Bianca v2 and waiting for you guys to get this in stock ... sooo excited!

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Best choice you'll ever make 🫶

[@mohammedsulaimanalfahdi5367]

worth it or not?

[@FatNorthernBigot]

I did exactly the same thing! 🤣

[@mihatest]

Great video that. Considering low RPM results, adding a manual grinder would be interesting.

[@user-jp9js9th8o]

thx for your informative AND sensual demonstrations with surprising results,ts....!

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@trisyismidnightdiner3447]

great video! hilariously, the session about rpm and taste differences resonates with my experience of using df64v for two weeks! I also found lower rpm--600, e.g.--produced more fines and was less pleasant or clean than 1200 rpm. I don't know how to explain this but, for me, the 1100-1300 zone tastes like a sweet spot.

[@Vo-Daddy]

Were you grinding for espresso? Pour over?

[@trisyismidnightdiner3447]

@@Vo-Daddy for espresso mainly

[@Mandragara]

Are you sure it made more fines at lower RPM, or did it just taste worse?

[@trisyismidnightdiner3447]

​@@Mandragara i guess both. I noticed that at lower RPM I had to use the bellow more to empty the channel and more fines were coming out--and yes, even with naked eyes. And the bitter note in the cup was obvious to me than say at 1200

[@Mandragara]

@@trisyismidnightdiner3447 very interestin'

[@x2100]

Awesome video and great quality, thank you! I am waiting for the dust to settle with all these grinders coming out. I hope I can wait till a version 2 of this grinder for the kinks to be worked out. There seem to be a shortfall of different things with each grinder that has been released so far, unless we go to the $1,500 plus grinders.

[@gro967]

Even the EG-1 isn’t free of problems, but definitely worth it ;)

[@MarcesAurelius]

clever to add text when comparing 👍🏼 👍🏼 as an big espresso fan I would find this variation interesting to perhaps? - dialing very different beans - just for variety with same big bag of beans - mixing two speeds when making two+ espressos

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Great suggestions thanks ! The trying more beans happens mostly off camera - it's a lot to go through many beans - dialling in all grinders - would be like a 2 hours video 😂

[@LarryShwang]

I'm loving your videos. I've subscribed! I'm torn between DF64V and the DF64 Gen2. What would you go for if budget wasn't an issue? I drink mainly espresso.

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Thanks so much! 😀 I'd suggest the DF64V 🔥 the ability to modulate the Flavour through an addition parameter - as daunting as that sounds 😂 - it's so easy to turn the dial one way or the other - in adjusting the RPM and see immediate results. It's one of those settings I feel comfortable changing on a regular basis knowing it's quite a passive way of changing the flavour of the extraction - versus adjusting dose, yield, brew time and so on - that can sometimes have you chasing your tail. Another parameter I change on more occasions is the Brew Temp - ranging from 91-95ºc. The DF64 gen2 is fantastic 👌 - though I'm sold on adjustable RPM on a grinder, especially if it's Espresso you enjoy!

[@LarryShwang]

@@AlternativeBrewing thank you for your response i really appreiciate it.. I am more than likely going to go with the df64v. I quite like the plasma on the Gen 2 though. Do you find the DF64V can be messy at all?

[@AlternativeBrewing]

no messy than other grinders tbh - if it were an overly messy grinder I would mention it 👌 @@LarryShwang

[@technovelodos]

Lance Hedrick looked into the effect of varying RPM on grind output and the "best evidence" is the effect is dependent on the specific grinder. Some grinders get finer, other corser and some no different, with increasing RPM. So this answers your question about it "flipping" your initial assumptions. Take away is that for this grinder you should simply do a particle size distribution analysis for grind output at 2-3 different RPM settings to see how THIS grinder reacts. You can't assume it will produce less, more of the same amount of fines or whether the distribution curve simply shifts left or right. Challenge issued...

[@mikni4069]

Gagne mentioned it depends on the burrs, some burr for example those in the EG-1 doesn’t really benefit from RPM as the result are as just moving the PSD on a scale but you can achieve same result just by changing the grind. On many Conical however using lower RPM seem to clean up the PSD and give a more flat like profile with more clarity and flavour separation. Some flat burrs it’s reversed these clean up at higher RPM. It’s messy and chaotic to say the least, however unimodal type burrs don’t really seem to benefit from it in any noticeable degree, it seem to mostly impact the burrs that aren’t like these… I won’t say I’m surprised. However it would have been intriguing to see what happend if you countered changes by changing in grind.

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Wow, thanks for sharing those insights! That all rings true with my experience say with the Varia VS3, that is a small conical at a very slow 160 rpm - flavour separation is impressive - and have not encountered that before with a conical automatic. Likewise, flat burrs at high rpm seems to work the best. Considering Eureka are reasonably low in terms of the default range of flat burr rpm @ 1200 rpm and are notable for having more body and texture versus higher at around 1400-1600 rpm. Notably, I consider perhaps lower rpm causes the beans to tumble and remain for too long between the flat burrs of low rpm, fracturing further and creating more fines - hence the heavier bodied cups. - though this, and many more insights are, as you say messy and chaotic and not a hard and fast rule, it's the journey - not the destination! 😂

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@AlternativeBrewing I thought most Eureka grinders are like 1500-1600RPM at least in 120v land. I found they generally have a more balanced / traditional profile for espresso, not very high clarity, but I'm sure that's also due to burr geometry. Weber Key (pretty low RPM range) or HG-2 is also pretty high flavour clarity despite being a big conical, I was surprised it didn't have thick body, I was expecting a SUPER NICHE ZERO type profile, but it's more like a Flat Burr to me and I already have like 4 other flat burr grinders!

[@AlternativeBrewing]

​apologies, you're right 🫶 it's the X54 that has low RPM, like 1050rpm for a small flat burr grinder.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@AlternativeBrewing oh cool didn't know that one is so low. Zerno is another flat burr grinder that runs at only 900 rpm I believe but has a pre breaker / auger which may also affect things (positively).

[@wpr4989]

my favorite coffee channel

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Thanks so much 🫶

[@daydriper]

I got one 2 weeks ago, I did notice that after going coarser than setting 70 the dial gets very loose and seems it could shift if grinding coarser than setting 85. Did this happen to you?

[@ericbaluya361]

I hope you compare it with the timemore and the lagom

[@AlternativeBrewing]

that'd would be a crazy video - would love to do that! 🔥

[@alessio.santoro]

Great review!

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Glad you think so! 👍

[@clarasusanto5344]

Hello! Could u please tell me which one is better one? Df64v vs niche zero vs df64 gen 2

[@AlternativeBrewing]

sound slike a great Comparison video 😂 Ill have do line it up soon for you 🫶

[@joshk528]

So glad I went with a 078s

[@sickhcivc]

Haha we all here just to validate past purchases

[@joshk528]

@@sickhcivc big facts

[@ringo.d]

Thank you for the instruction, i was ordering the G-iota Gen2 but then i saw the VS and i was really need to change my order. I hope i did the right thing. How is the speed of the G-iota Gen2? And whats the difference to the VS in terms of Quality? Best regards from Ringo in Hamburg Germany

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Hey Ringo! Speed is good - yes it's not incredibly faster than the Gen1. The 64V vs Gen2 ... I'd say they're on par for quality. Certainly, the 64V is better than the gen1 64, though the new gen2's is very close. You gotta ask yourself - do you really want variable speed or not?

[@TC_Prof]

Hmmmmm maybe varia and niche combo still ok brother and if i want slow then Comandante here we come 😊 what you think Josh? Great video as always though mate ❤

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Thanks mate! There's so much to choose from! Yeah, really not looking for the One Grinder to rule them all, and the DF64V with variable RPM is an interesting path to take. Competing with the Timemore and Option-O in that space. Variable RPm is such a niche in its own - I don't think it will ever catch on like single dosing has, for example.

[@TC_Prof]

@@AlternativeBrewing mate thoughts if this the go or sculptor 64s?

[@sebastianayala5621]

Would be better this df64v or the df83 v2, im into espresso only planning to upgrade

[@AlternativeBrewing]

df64v has been my favourite for it's workflow - cleanliness and RPM adjustment - plus at 64mm burr size - there's a much cheaper and larger range of burrs set you can consider vs the 83mm burrs that get very expensive. Bright, floral, juicy, sweet clean and lingering - go the df64v 👌

[@sebastianayala5621]

@@AlternativeBrewing thanks so much i just got the df64v from you, just a question should i season the burrs?

[@AlternativeBrewing]

with 1kg of ALDI beans yes 👌 will help with consistency in the short term @@sebastianayala5621

[@bilalsyed1542]

Pls compare it with Timemore Sculptor 078S

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Will do 👌

[@davidlogan2682]

It might be that some flat burrs perform better at a lower rpm range & some at higher, etc.

[@AlternativeBrewing]

I'm coming to understand this 👌

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Interesting you didn't get a shot time variance by changing the RPM generally a higher RPM shot will run SLOWER (longer). I've noticed similar findings, I thought you do get more flavour clarity on lower RPM but it is SHARPER and less balanced. Sometimes higher or medium RPM is just more enjoyable (it does depend on which grinder and burrset you're using though). I knew that would be the lower RPM shot with the more acidity. I'm surprised the most rounded/blended higher body one wasn't the higher RPM shot though. I would have guessed 2 was the medium RPM one since it sounded like it was more balanced with body and flavour clarity. Conical burrs are generally better (higher clarity, less body) at lower RPM.

[@gokhangokalp9915]

Thanks for the great review. What do you think about df64 gen2 comparing with this?

[@AlternativeBrewing]

I love the grinder chute on the DF64V , and the adjustable RPM as well. Hard to pass on if you're a coffee nerd who like to experiment. Yet, if you want a solid choice for incredible coffee, no frills - go the DF64 gen2.

[@gokhangokalp9915]

@@AlternativeBrewing thanks i ended up with df64V, so far so good. :)

[@swac870]

Can you share the capacity of the grinder and dosing cup? Would I be able to get 60-70g of beans in(with bellows in place) for a pour over?

[@AlternativeBrewing]

It's a 30g Hopper and the catch cup isn't all that much more. - around 50-60g max without causing spillage.

[@frankguernier2280]

So as a coffee grind newbie. I am totally lost. The technical terms used in grind burrs etc are way over my head. I am setting up my four wheel drive camping canopy at the moment. I have purchased a Bellman on stove machine but not used as yet. So i am now looking at a portable grinder either hand wind or something powered via 12volt. ( if it exists) any ideas. Cheers.

[@AlternativeBrewing]

This Grinder 👉 alternativebrewing.com.au/products/joyresolve-groove-compact-portable-coffee-grinder

[@ajownz]

Do you think the DLC burrs are closer to the Gorilla Gear or SSP HU?

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Great Question! a tough one to -answer! ... SSP HU are another beast - whereas I feel GG's are at least a little more forgiving on being just a little out on the grind size - so I would say these DLC burrs are like the GG's, more than the SSP HU's.

[@ajownz]

@@AlternativeBrewing many thanks!

[@JT-zy2ft]

Higher rpm would be preferable for espresso due to more fines while lower rpm would be preferable for filter due to the grind consistency and higher clarity.

[@medroastt9888]

interesting... maybe because 600rpm is too low for espresso ground (not enough torque?).. another comparison for pour over may result differently, though

[@AlternativeBrewing]

I agree 👌

[@alan7545]

Link to vacuum pleaseeee

[@TheJamesMReid]

I wonder if the higher RPM could improve espresso but lower RPM for filter?

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Yes, it seems there's a few things going on here. Higher RPM for flat burrs is ideal - and there's a sweet spot in there somewhere - I believe around the 1200-1400 rpm range. Low RPM for filter should improve the flavour separation, brightness and clarity - and it seems with Low rpm espresso - these characteristics are enhanced to a point that it's a negative and takes away from the concentrated cohesion of an espresso flavour experience.

[@TheJamesMReid]

@@AlternativeBrewing ah! got it. Thank you!

[@MarcesAurelius]

Any alternative to the dosing cup wooded riser? Color and/or material? Perhaps a single very tall cup with perhaps a 1/3-2/3 horizontal divider? And cleaner design (full stand) like the Lagom P64

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Not that I'm aware of - though I haven't been all over the 3d mods, like the original DF64 had

[@cqei]

Just got my DF64V today! This video was a huge part in my decision to get this over a niche or timemore. However I'm having trouble unscrewing the dial collar, it just feels totally glued in place. Did it come like that for you?

[@AlternativeBrewing]

It did not no! So turning it clockwise - are you able to turn the grinder on at the same time and try it?

[@chautoannguyen2908]

I have the same problem, could you guide more about it? Thank you

[@cqei]

@@chautoannguyen2908 I had to put rubber bands around it to help with grip and just keep trying. I eventually got it unstuck haha

[@technovelodos]

Apologies in advanced for being a pedant but RPM is already a plural (revolutions per minute - plus you can't have revolutions per minutes as it doesn't make sense), so no need to add an "s" to the end of this acronym. It's just RPM not RPMs.

[@jeffmattel7867]

Oh boy! 🙄

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Apologies here! Thanks for letting me know 🫶 #gettingbetterdaybyday

[@manniefred86]

Great video! I was just wondering if you somehow corrected for the different temperatures of the espresso in the tasting? If you pull 3 shots in a row and then taste, even if they started out identical they will all taste quite different due to the first shot being a lot cooler than the last one which has nothing to do with the RPM.

[@AlternativeBrewing]

corrected? - what would be away to correct this? My method is to make them all very quick back to back - then taste them all over 4-5 minutes as they all cool down. At some point there will be an curve of dropping temperatures where they're all within 3-5ºc of each other. I know this as I've tested this before in many other tastings.

[@manniefred86]

@@AlternativeBrewing I know Lance Hedrick stirs the later shots to accelerate the cool down process and measures the temp until they have all reached the same temperature. I think your methodology is fine though and easier to execute.

[@kylelopez6219]

How does it fair with filter coffee?

[@9af1s]

Hello I need advice what would be better a 1zpresso x pro or eureka mignon filtro/crono they’re the same price in my country and I want the best flavor I can get with pour over and few times I’ll do some milk based espresso drink but mostly pour over. Sometimes I’ll travel but I heard flat burrs are tastier even if maybe the difference is not substantial enough? I don’t mind hand grinding at all so I just want to know which I should get?

[@AlternativeBrewing]

1zpresso X Pro 👌 It'll travel and you'll appreciate having great coffee anywhere you go 😀 You're not missing out on much between the two grinders - but you can't throw the Eureka in a bag with your Pourover 😂

[@9af1s]

@@AlternativeBrewing thank you I’ll get the x pro!

[@ericvandenbranden6711]

I have done my own test. Just got the df64v and compared to my Barattza virtuoso conical grinder, its flat with no sweetness... so bummed out. If anyone wants a brand new df64 with ssp sweet labs installed... Im selling. Used like 4 times. Used V60 technique, dialed in both grinders using a kruve sifter and both brew times are exactly 3min with a 16:1 ratio of 15g costa rican beans from volcanica and 240g of third wave water. So bummed😢

[@Mandragara]

Be interesting to know how this works if you paper filter the espresso. Trapping some extra fines that flow out

[@AlternativeBrewing]

True!

[@Ali_Zee]

between this and DF83 for both espresso and filter What you think?

[@AlternativeBrewing]

This, if it were a regular filter and espresso grinder, with more options to experiment 👌

[@the510wagon]

I had a Silvia for years. Loved it. But unless you temp surf it with ferocious concentration, it's not a very consistent machine. What's my point? If you're doing blind tastings in your videos, why not use an E61 machine with PID to reduce variability in the shots? The differences in flavour in this vid could easily have been from the Silvia, not the grind speed...?

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Thanks for sharing! Yes, this is in fact the Rancilio Silvia Pro Dual Boiler with PID 🫶 Not the Silvia V6 single boiler - which would - i totally agree - be an irresponsible choice for blind tasting coffee back to back.

[@friendlyghostkinda]

What you recommend. The standard 64 or vs3 for espresso with for full bodied than juicy or watery. Time isn’t important.

[@wakeawaken430]

Vs3 with the stock burrs

[@AlternativeBrewing]

The Varia VS3, although ive mentioned this before being better sweetness and clarity - if the choice is DF64 or Varia VS3 for full bodied, it'd be the Varia. DF64 is much better at performing for clarity, sweetness and acidity

[@phrjj]

No stalling issues here? I've seen a bunch of people having issues elsewhere.

[@mlpjunior]

All of the stalling issues I've seen (including my own) are on the 110v version. The machine in this video is the 220v version. In my experience, the stalling issues are worse at filter settings than espresso.

[@lowfuel6089]

I have the 110 version and get stalls with light roasts at 600rpm. But, much like this reviewer, I definitely prefer shots from the 1400 or even 1600 range.

[@mlpjunior]

@@lowfuel6089 I prefer my espresso at higher RPMs, but my v60 grinds are really nice at 600 RPM. Unfortunately, I have to feed it a few beans at a time or it stalls. Filter seems to stall worse than espresso for some reason.

[@lowfuel6089]

@@mlpjunior Interesting! I will keep that in mind, I do occasionally do a v60.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

​@@mlpjunior That is strange, so what taste (Clarity / acidity / body?) differences have you noticed with higher vs lower RPM? Do you find shot or brew timing changes with the RPM?

[@DmitrijPaskevic]

Love what they did with this model design-wise. Very mature and elegant yet recognisable. Variable RPM is just another coffee nerd gimmick that we didn't need however 🤷🏻

[@mlpjunior]

Did you hear the grinder when he tried 600 RPM? It hesitated for a split second. That was almost a stall.

[@user-rz2lt9se7o]

Recognizable because it's basically a Lagom P64 knockoff :D Variable RPM IS beneficial I believe, it's not necessary but nice to have.

[@Bowser558]

Which rpm espresso works better for latte?

[@AlternativeBrewing]

I would generally say the higher rpm 🙌

[@meowers712]

lower RPM could be interesting and bring out new brew methods but it's not essential

[@tomgreen2058]

I thought the more uniform distribution at lower rpm was only for conical burrs?

[@AlternativeBrewing]

This does appear to be true 👌

[@tomgreen2058]

@@AlternativeBrewing physics is hard

[@Onucux]

The front base is 100mm width?

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Just about yes, Very slim 👌

[@HaekalAlchatieb]

maybe the logic behind RPM between conical and flat burrs are different

[@AlternativeBrewing]

this is true. learning as we go almost 😂 so much space for variability and rarely a like for like comparison 🫶

[@HaekalAlchatieb]

@@AlternativeBrewing btw thanks man 😉

[@BensCoffeeRants]

There is some debate whether it changes anything on flat burrs, I believe it does, but there is more evidence it changes things on conical burrs. Some say on flat burrs the lower RPM = Coarser grinds and higher RPM just makes it finer, same as adjusting the grind size, I did notice on my P64 with Mizen burrs, at aeropress /coarser grind size, the LOW RPM grinding was noticeably coarser. I did some tests recently with aeropress and I believe there is a slight difference even after compensating for the grind size change. A bit more acidity, higher clarity and less body in the lower RPM where you get a more coherent blended balanced coffee at higher RPM with more lingering body/aftertaste. BUT In my testing with those burrs it was very small differences. I think Aeropress might be too forgiving of a brew method, for Pour over or Espresso I believe I'd see more of a dramatic difference. Its interesting here his shot timing doesn't change when he changed RPM. The burr design is also a factor I'm sure.

[@HaekalAlchatieb]

@@BensCoffeeRants u might need more test on espresso machine, overall I still prefer flat burrs for espresso and filter. I got 4 of those grinders LOL. I have 2 manual conical (of course) grinder, but I don't feel like spend time cranking those grinders every morning LOL

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@HaekalAlchatieb I'm doing espresso like 99% of the time. Which conical grinders do you have?

[@stephenfrew8658]

Interesting...and I love my espresso. All things considered I'm happy with my single speed Sunbeam grinder which for my money, is as efficient as the Mazzer grinders I've used professionally over the years. I love your work though. Keep on it. 👍☕

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Right on! Thanks so much for the kind words 🫶 and if it works, don't change a thing 😀

[@redrich2000]

Looks really messy even with RDT. Is that the experience?

[@AlternativeBrewing]

Messier at lower RPM than high RPM, yes. it's also a very dry climate atm 😂

[@ilkzode1822]

Well i'll keep my chin up and pride in myself knowing that these DF grinders have flaws that just keep workflow annoying. Noone wants to talk about the real FLAWS SO I WILL CHIME IN. Dial indicator and arrow pointer move after some grinds. Probably due to the overkill rpm and how these machines love to move/jolt at startup. Theyve never came up with a solid declumper and chute solution. Popcorn is a huge issue and Turin couldnt supply an antipopcorn device throughout all their lineups. Why does df64V have a magnetic chute for easy cleaning but the more expensive df83 has a screw on and off chute. After so many variations you would think R & D would come up with a better winning declumper chute combo. Ooooo my god the bellows. So much chaff regardless of RDT and/or light to heavy bellow Taps. Considering the price, the many potential and easy fixes they could of implemented, i shall happily be returningy df83V2. Maybe in a few more years after version 5000 comes out will i reconsider. Btw i played with the df64 too. Returned that as well

[@crackhead187]

Agree with the jolt/moving upon start up, but that doesn’t happen with this machine compared to the other df grinders, I think because of the brushless motor perhaps. This one also has anti popcorn.

[@ralff1977]

So which grinder would you recommend instead?

[@userinfo3119]

I physically cringe every time he says "RPM's".

[@AlternativeBrewing]

😂1 RPM, 2 RPMS