No More Excuses! 5 Things Coin Grading Companies Must Do!

[@bucnbas]

Sounds like you want them to actually do something to justify the cost of grading! It will never happen because they are already to big to care what we think. Thanks Daniel for everything you do.

[@mattmatt6572]

I don't see any value added to grading coins. They are mostly deffinately not third party. The company's are selling the coins they are grading. And also when a new non bias computer grading technology becomes the standard all human graded coins will loose appeal and value and will need to be sent I'm and regraded.

[@chrisbroguiere3593]

I am a firm believer that pretty much everyone that views this gentleman's channel thinks he is a man of good standing character. With that being said, maybe this gentleman should be the very best person to start that said third party grading business. Just a thought sir.

[@Tim99-lg7kn]

Nope this man is a monster😅😅😅

[@d.m.h.5981]

I agree!

[@Paul_Journet]

I agree with you 100%. The industry is stuck in there ways and needs to change. Sent a coin which I thought was 64 grade possibly 65. Came back a 63. Two coin dealers said to me you should it back. Crack it out of the holder and sent it in. Came back a 65 grade.

[@MAGA_Extremist]

@@Paul_Journet WoW that's ridiculous.

[@timgrant8729]

I have always wanted to hear of someone doing exactly what you did! Thanks for sharing! I strongly felt that this same scenario would turn out just like it did for you!

[@remyferrari8501]

I like the concept of an email from a company telling me what grading options my coin has. You’re right. Upselling is an advantage for the company. Also, it’s a teaching tool for the beginner collector.

[@bjanks00]

You would always be creating a more informed grade opinion. I agree human judgement could be the final stamp. Company should also guarantee re-holdering+postage in case of typo date and label errors.

[@GaryBowker-z4i]

I think Daniel should start his own grading company. I starting collecting coins two years ago and he is the main reason for that. I watched one of his videos by chance and started looking through my coin jar. I found a 1909s vdb lincoln cent and sold it for a huge profit. Thank you Daniel. Keep it up.

[@andykunik217]

An inexpensive RFID chip can hold all the pertinent grading information and can be imbedded in the slab holder.

[@haroldmclean3755]

Interesting thoughts 👍

[@JoeyBourg-v7l]

NDT is my field fyi. Ultrasonic Testing (UT) and Penetrant Testing (PT) are not feasible for numismatics. UT exposes the coin to a couplant (gel) as well as possibility to the transducer scratching/damaging the surface. PT requires cleaning prior to applying the penetrant.

[@d.m.h.5981]

are there also any issues with spectral testing as well?

[@mikebarushok5361]

​@@d.m.h.5981 I can think of several potential issues, but I don't have any special expertise. The biggest issue is that the technology is rapidly advancing and so the company would either have to ignore any progress in increasing resolution, processing speed, size of smallest detail, etc -or- stay current with improvements and lose the ability to directly compare with previously examined coins. Another issue is that the actual surface able to be analyzed isn't truly stable. All toning color comes from a combination of the chemical change and the thickness of the film formed and both of those are going to continue to change over variable timelines and especially with variations in temperature and light exposure. Another issue is that there's a diffraction grating effect that modifies the spectrum and there's no correct angle of lighting and of detector positioning that would properly characterize the effect and you just can't do infinitely many scans to determine what's actually significant to a human eye. I can think of other issues, but there's nothing that would replace expensive, open ended experimentation to even get an approximately objective result to even begin implementation.

[@JoeyBourg-v7l]

@@d.m.h.5981 do you mean XRF testing? I’m not familiar with the term is all. NDT is a very vast field with lots of different methods.

[@dmatich123]

I nominate you as the Chief Technology Officer, Daniel as the CEO of the new company. Now all you need is some angel investors. Sorry, I don't have the cash to be one 😆

[@d.m.h.5981]

@@JoeyBourg-v7l I think so, I only heard it referred to as spectral testing. I have a wrong metal planchet IHC which contains 6% gold and graded MS-65. It was found in an estate attic safe which hadn't been opened since about 1916. NGC had done the testing according to the results paper.

[@Looey]

YES ! The best video I've seen in months. You have great ideas!

[@scottcowell9645]

I agree with you 100 percent Sir once again a excellent video you have posted I appreciate your time you put into your channel. Have a great year ahead!

[@JosephShaffer-o1o]

I really don’t think these grading companies are gonna invest the time doing all this unless they are paid more .

[@markconner6078]

I totally agree. I have a few coins that I would like to have graded but I've been holding off sending them in. I don't like PCGS because of their membership thing and the high cost of that and grading. NGC is ok with me, but again when your budget is tight, it cost about as much to use them. ANACS works best for me. You are so right though that these companies can't get together and set a standard using today's tech. Public companies are all about profit and there lie's a major issue.

[@thevendordude]

Great ideas Daniel!

[@doxer678]

Morning Daniel and coin collecting friends!!!!! 😉

[@timgrant8729]

Ive been thinking the same thing! Take several sample coins from each mint and combine that info by scanning technology and that is the 70 benchmark! Then scanning a coin you want graded compares it to the master scan and grade from there.

[@FastLanding]

Thank you your awsome for this one !!!

[@JenniScotti]

I agree more info should be provided for each coin as to why it received the grade it got. Even its just the graders notes. This would certainly clear up any confusion. Everycoin I get back I wonder why it got a 64 instead of a 65 for example. A simple explanation from the graders would not take that much time to add into a "remarks" column.

[@martinmiller3647]

I agree with you 💯

[@jimgoodreau1245]

I grade my own coins! And i only pay the price i am willing to pay! I am a collector not an investor!

[@jdburnouts]

Some good ideas!

[@stevenkertesz4625]

I do agree with you. Coin grading is subjective. They are not the same across the board. People speak of cracking coins out and send to another company to try and get a better grade. I do agree that they should tell you why your submission wasn't graded higher or why it got the grade that it did. Im not a grader by any means but can usually ballpark them. Until someone sets a new standard, i feel we are in for the same for now. Great show/topic. Keep up the good work, Daniel.

[@JosephMcAvoy-b2w]

Well said, Daniel. A superb, principled presentation. Just what is needed.

[@SSS-bd6li]

Another great video. I am think any TPG that can do what you’re suggesting will be light years ahead of the competition.

[@rolandocastaneda4429]

Daniel I agree maybe there should be a non profit grading organization but it will take time to generate the respect that PCGS and CAC are generating. Most people don't work for free or even to break even. Of course people need to be treated like treasure and not trash and that also means coins too. I really like the fact that you mentioned that graders should state a reason why a coin is thus. That is an excellent accountability suggestion. Good luck sir.

[@andrewwatkins1561]

Thank you for this video. I agree 100%. I’m pretty sure the holder cannot be opened without it being obvious.

[@CoinHELPu]

I've seen them opened and if you don't look closely or know what to look for, you can't tell. I did a video on that a few years ago.

[@rebeccaheck2676]

love your videos. But i 1000000% agree w/ all your points/ideas on coin grading companies. Hopefully the right people see this and act on it!!!!!

[@CoinHELPu]

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[@buildingAbiz]

I agree 100%

[@gregoryquinn-f6h]

What I would like is grading companies to start putting on the slab on numeric grade even if the coin is clean cleaned or damaged a numeric grade so when you go to auction them off or sell them the buyer can know what grade that coin might be.

[@CoinHELPu]

ANACS is the only one that will.

[@craigfiebiger1730]

Time for you to start a company like this, Daniel.

[@leechild4655]

I agree with your thinking of what should be and what is not about graded coins. To totally be above-board and transparent about what a coin`s condition is, it shouldn`t be someone`s judgment call based on what they think simple because they`ve been grading coins for decades and know it all, or a grade depending on how the grader felt that day. To really get a technical grade, we have to take the human element out of it as much as we can. It has always been an art, not a science but, they still use the scientific method to get an accurate acessment many times. And it should not be some good-old-boys network making all the decisions because the good old boys will always do whats in the best interest for them instead of anyone else that isnt in the club.

[@williamguirl7735]

I think that graders being under pressure to grade a minimum of 1K coins/day they tell us they dont use a loupe stronger than 5X, occasionally I’ll hear from an ex grader 10X. Go Daniel, lighting, multidirectional is a must, photography seems to be a difficult issue for many, especially quite a few on the bay!

[@BradYaateeh.]

As usual Daniel your spot on in your assessment. I have been trained in grading gemstones. The coin graders should look at the procedures involved in grading gemstones and incorporate those systems, which are basically what you have explained in this video. I always find a bit of humor at a coin show when I see two people debating the actual grade of a slabbed coin.

[@carriker54]

This type of system should be implemented to be technologically equal to the Mint. There definitely should be one system that all grading companies adhere to. The experts that are deciding on the numerical grade should be certified by an independent group that is not affiliated with the grading company or the U S Mint.

[@MarcHasaraMarcHasara]

I refuse to join any coin or card submission club or association with required membership to have something graded by PCGS, NGC, PSA or other mom and pop grading company. These companies do not all agree on the same grades so that standard grading procedures and results do no exist. I buy coins and cards that other people have had graded to avoid dealing with these petty criminal grading companies. When I see a bad grade on a card or coin that is clearly a mistake these companies are not be receptive to act responsibly to me.

[@steveib8118]

Im in with you Daniel, let me know when u r ready to start the Coin help you graded coin company.

[@mikebarushok5361]

Interesting food for thought, but would have to overcome the natural tendencies of people to want to optimize income and to dislike change.

[@dufftillottson3776]

Most of the complaints about grading companies that I’ve seen is people don’t know why they got the grade they got. CACG could have easily become the #1 grading company if they provided an explanation with each submission.

[@ceegee797]

I agree, although the price of getting coins grading would skyrocket.

[@CoinHELPu]

No, it wouldn't, there's no reason it would.

[@ceegee797]

@@CoinHELPu Why not? The grading companies would have to put up a lot of $ for all this equipment. Just my opinion.

[@CoinHELPu]

@@ceegee797 no more than any other expense. Companies are always investing in themselves, buying equipment upgrades, expanding, etc.

[@TheWinstonDouble]

We need something better than the sheldon scale. A pokemon card can get graded with 4 sub grades for different aspects of it. Yet a coin, a 3D object that varies wildly in quality compared to cards, gets one number to sum up the entire package. On circulated grades, sure. But anything above XF deserves to be scored on different aspects. Use broader categories. For marks, instead of 11 mint state grades, knock it down to 6 adjectival grades. UNC, select, choice, gem, superb, & FDC. Then just do split grades, "it's either this or this... you decide." Calling shots on 64 vs 65 is arbitrary. Rather than trying to hit it on the button every time, just put it into a range. It removes a lot of subjectivity if you have easier categories to put things in. Lustre strength, pretty simple, just do 1-5 stars. And do half stars for split ratings. Strike and die state are tricky. I think you can get away with 1-3 on each of those rtings. Maybe the occasional 4 if it's really exceptional, and a 0 if it's trashed. Grading a coin by breaking down these factors and putting them into somewhat broad, but desceiptive ranges makes it more obvious to the grader as to how to score it. And then a buyer can look at these scores and develop a picture in their head of what that coin ought to look like in hand. The graders can also add coments like: "Choice Unc surfaces, One lage bag scuff, obv. cheek and eye, NE to SW, otherwise gem typical surfaces." "★★★☆☆ Lustre, bright and swirly, but on the frosty side with oxide making it less vivid. The tansition from light to dark areas is not very well contrasted. 2/3 Die State, repolished, but detail is still entirely distingishable with slight softening and minor die deterioration in secondary areas. 3/3 Strike, the metal flowed fully into the die, as best it could for a business strike. See now do you have an idea about what a coin like that would look like in hand? Is that not better than just "MS-64" on a coin that could be $153,000? I notice they'll charge you way more for sending off a really expensive coin, but they wont actually provide any better quality service. Why can't they scan the coin and map it out with all that, and then just have a human look at the diagram and fill out categories? They wouldn't even need to manhandle your coins. They could just look at an interactive screen with a 3D map of the coin. (Press Alt. 4 to highlight marks) And then they can't miss anything. Idk, is that too much to ask? I don't want a "grade," I want a proper, honest, unbiased description of what the coin looks like.

[@MAGA_Extremist]

This. I agree with you why does it cost more money to send in a more expensive coin if it gets the same exact service? They're freaking greedy, they know that the person sending in an expensive coin probably has more money and a person sending in a low grade coin probably has less money, it's disgusting

[@jscottd]

Great ideas.

[@ForestService007]

You right 1000% and I don’t think they will do that … maybe in 50 years from now , unfortunately this companies will never ever do that in my opinion

[@ronmueller1164]

They could stand to lower their pricing and lead times a tad as well. After all, they make the most money overall in the entire industry. It indeed has become about the holder and it's perceived value

[@matthewgilmore5307]

i agree

[@JohnnyCollins-cv4gx]

Good morning enjoy your show each morning and thanks for the update ✳️

[@JosephShaffer-o1o]

Daniel , if they did all that ; you mentioned they would add a cost over 500 more , making a lot of people to not get their coins graded , yes the holders need to be upgraded by all means , to many crooks today .

[@CoinHELPu]

It would not cost $500 a coin, the initial cost of the equipment would not cause more of a cost.

[@justinhughes4195]

Actually, there is technology that will tell you electronicly if a seal has been broken...Amen on customer service and caring..

[@sheilasmith-ek6gj]

AWESOME! now how do we do it? let an auction company take a set of coins, did not get back my set i sent, missing 1 coin that was replaced with lesser value. $1 for 100,000$. was so upset , felt stupid, ready to stop, never again. THEN ready to make sure didnt happen to others. SO HOW WE DO THIS?

[@b.g.turner3946]

I hope the influencers of the hobby, such as yourself, will continue to insist upon change to the coin grading processes. If the concepts you have put forth were implemented along with other supporting ideas, no doubt many others would be drawn into coin collecting. My dad collected coins from the 1950s. I have delightful memories of going to various coin shows and traveling to small town coin dealers with him. I'm a old(er) man now, but I believe it would be much more enjoyable again if the frustration and ambiguity of coin grading was reduced. For sure coin grading is necessary, but it needs to be credible, less complex and more consistent. The technology you talk about along with common sense customer service would go a long way to advance it. and bring a lot more people on board.

[@lionofjuda6941]

❤🎉 Dan the man

[@Errorsandoddities33]

Grading companies need to adopt cutting-edge technology like AI-driven analysis and advanced imaging to improve consistency! There’s already an incredible AI called N.U.M.I., built through GPT technology, and it’s insanely accurate. I’ve honed its skills with exclusive, in-depth prompts and even put it to the test with multiple blind grading challenges-covering the grades on slabs-and it has nailed them every time. The future of numismatics is here! #NumismaticFuture #AIGrading

[@buzzzthrower555]

Im still trying to figure out if anything i have is worth having them be graded. I have a variety of coins but dont even know where to begin when it comes to know what would be worth the time and money to have sent off for grading. I'll most likely just keep collecting and not worry about grading for a while.

[@CoinHELPu]

Watch this kzbin.info/www/bejne/fqjQfZ-em9aAfpI

[@Evom777]

I've said it for 15 years......these companies need to at the very least point you in the direction of what side/sides of a coin the problem is on? They say the coin was "tooled", okay, which side? They say the ASE that you sent in from a sealed tube is a 69? Okay, tell me which side the issue is on? The current big 3 won't do it, because that'd not only hold them accountable, but would eliminate their modern coins grading racket. We all know they're not scrutinizing the coins and just passing them through.

[@ulexite-tv]

Tell it like it is, Daniel. Coin graders are living in the 1980s. They should take a cue from gemologists, who have always stayed up-to-date on modern inspection technologies. An actual scan of the coin can be made and accompany the slab. I also like the idea of a readable rfID chip in the holder. We microchip pets, so it is easy-peasy technology to microchip a coin slab. Built-in AirTags may also have a place in the coin case, to track potentially stolen coins

[@kenwasser6186]

Coin collecting is in my DNA. However, you are on point regarding the disfunction, lack of information, explanations, and full coin descriptions not being provided by the grading companies. The lack of uniformity among these graders causes uncertainty as to a coin’s value. Next will be a service verifying CAC graded coins. The reality of breakout and counterfeit holders and counterfeit coins is also a recipe for this hobby’s demise. One shouldn’t have to be an expert to feel safe in buying coins.

[@dandydave1949]

Another viral video Daniel? I hope so!!!!!

[@jeffkeller9009]

This is why I'm not so much for the MS69 and MS70 graded coins

[@prettyplayfull]

It sounds like you have a way- past due solution to a long time problem. Why dont you start this yourself. You would be perfect! Do it please!!! Fantastic plan. YOU are 100% correct. Inclueds identification of stolen coins. ID ing the coin getting its fingerprints.!

[@stevengreenhaw231]

Very forward thinking ideas. Would bring many more folks into coin collecting!

[@StephenKozlowski]

Thanks for sharing good information and a wow

[@fyxley1939]

I've brought these same issues on this very website and have not been able to start a real discussion of what I believe and now Daniel is openly stating is misconduct on the part of the grading companies. I'd like to hear what many of you have to say.

[@d.m.h.5981]

Thank you Daniel! This topic has been long overdue for discussion on the principles of numismatic grading. The fees could certainly become more reasonable for varieties and error attributions. It would certainly facilitate more growth for hobby members which would add to the volume of grading/fee charges which could help lower the actual fees without hurting 3rd party grading companies bottom line. Public companies often get corrupted by unnecessary politics, poor customer service, etc.

[@Hotbuyking]

Daniel, well said-another great video.

[@homerj806]

Eye appeal is also very subjective. Just like an art work. What is eye appealing to one in one way would differ with the next viewer.

[@CoinHELPu]

That has nothing to do with the technical grade of a coin, this is a misconception and excuse. If you search auction records you can see all kinds of high grade, registry grade coins, that lack eye appeal.

[@homerj806]

@@CoinHELPu Totally agree. Especially in the era of artificial toning. I would never buy those as I consider them damaged.

[@kurtreese7408]

Grading company should be a trade association

[@danielmcfadden4082]

So very well said and thought out, Daniel…!! The grading companies would be very wise to listen to your ideas because if they don’t adapt to the new technologies that are available now, someone else will start a new grading company using those technologies and standards.. Great video Daniel..!!

[@kristinebailey86]

Daniel I agree with you 100 percent tamper proof holders to prevent coin swap outs. Maybe some sort of magnetic strip built in to the coin holder. If it's been cracked open the strip changes color so you know it's been cracked.

[@BlueWaterSTAX]

Thanks Daniel. Cool channel

[@goldenwarrior6996]

They do not spend much time gradeing coin buy the coin graders. It has been stated each grader grades no less then 1,000 coins per day. Well if it is a 8 hour day with lunch break and breaks it could be 7 hours total. Well that grader is grading 142 coins per hour or 2.3 coins per miniute included in that time the grader has to slab each coin and lable the holder.

[@matthewgilmore5307]

some of my family and friends ask why i dont have my finds graded, you said it all and i my not get it back ! not happening *

[@MikeWahl-x9g]

I found out that I was very hard on grading coins. I bought a Morgan silver dollar it had on it MS 63 and I graded it at MS 60. I was told that there are tolerance for some coins. Another great video Daniel enjoyed very much.

[@ClanMacFarland71]

Wow, I didn't even know that coin grading companies sold stock. Didn't even occur to me. I'd have to agree with your concerns, Daniel. Thanks for sharing. 😀

[@matthewgilmore5307]

Do you read your comments ?

[@michaelmendez6308]

These coin graders take months and still get paid premium to geuss what a joke

[@EmilyTienne]

It is true that once a company becomes beholden to shareholders, standards generally deteriorate as profit generation becomes the primary goal. Think of what could happen if private equity got in on the act.

[@bruceandrews4091]

Grading is so subjective,thanks wrong,grade should not be done. By opinion,it should be a fact filled procedure,most people who send in coins too be graded , pretty much know ,what grade they will get,yet the grade most recieve is way less,there should be a explanation along with the grade

[@ZANF3R]

Not sure about automation of grading, but I agree there should be more transparency on things.

[@nikkileigh1585]

Love your channel Sir!!

[@mikesemones8333]

Dag gone Daniel you brought up stuff I never knew about,very informative video,I'm sure that fumble made your weekend and a great game ahead,have a Blessed Day!

[@marymastromauro8164]

Good afternoon Daniel, good video

[@head-of_Grow]

Thank you for the help

[@rickw6521]

This is the most important video you have put out. I collected coins from pocket change as a kid and at 66 just sent in two coins and a note. And was very disappointed with no info back. It is not helpful to young coin collectors that want to get into this. It's these companies just wanting your money for them to say it is worth nothing. With out standards it can be worth face value or hundreds if they chose to say so. With that be said i don't care how rare a coin or note can be worth i will have no trust in these companies because they have not earned the trust with out standards.

[@DaringDoberman-hd6lu]

pie in sky what does PCGS CACG NGC care when it matters to peons like me? Its about the dough the gelt the money just pours in.

[@tjanderson575]

Why don’t you get all the stuff together and start doing this yourself? Sounds like a reasonable idea to me.

[@DJbabynoneck]

A submission would cost $100 a coin with all of this. That equipment cost a fortune and the AI srill needs to be taught. The info coming out is only as good as the data going in.

[@CoinHELPu]

No, it would not cost $100 a coin. I don't know where you got that, someone else said $500, all of that is founded in opinion. A grading company invest in the tech, then charges the same price or a subscription. So many ways to make money without over-charging.

[@nikkileigh1585]

You make excellent points and I concur with you on all of them

[@brianjones606]

No crack holder's digital documentation you have a solid Provenance. Thank you for the education.

[@UKDark_Mark]

A lot of the technology you talk about costs nothing short of a fortune, especially if they are to examine coins in any volume. And not publicly owned (share capital) companies? Nice thought.

[@CoinHELPu]

Employees and their benefits is any company's largest expense, this equipment wouldn't be so costly that it would get in the way of implementing it. It's already being used in industry.

[@richardbillin5190]

Losing and Lost faith in Coin Grading personally I’m getting out of Coins and going to strictly 999 Silver and 9999 Gold easily measured for purity. If anyone wants to or have done it can submit the exact same Coin to any of the Major Coin Grading Companies and most likely will get a different result I did it and each of the top three gave it a different grade, and could result in a big difference in Perceived Value. Until they get a “Industry Standard” and take out the personal opinion it’s pointless but very profitable for these so called Grading Companies.

[@jeffw1267]

I think CACG is doing a fantastic job, but I'm only seeing it from a buyer's perspective. I have never been disappointed by one of their coins. Maybe this will help the Big Two try harder and grade more consistently.

[@Lig814]

Why don’t we all chip in and start our own company?

[@chrisblackburn-hj4lf]

You tell ‘em Dan, a lot of dealers think the grading companies don’t make mistakes. If you bring up A.I. they start laughing.

[@CoinHELPu]

Because they don't understand AI and they're afraid of it, but I don't know any dealers that claim they don't make any mistakes. I've caught plenty and just did a video on one huge mistake.

[@edduarte2063]

Tell him Daniel it's true these people are practically and I do believe cricket

[@caneycreekwoodcarver]

You are absolutely spot on on the grading of your coins. They grade your coin and just send it back to you and not tell you a !#!&$ why it got that grade. What is really bad is the grade is subjective to the grader that looked at it that day. They may be having a bad day and you get screwed. You are right use the new technology to grade coins. Sorry for being long winded but I could go on but for now I will get off of my soap box.

[@joelp6197]

Yes I agree 100%.

[@roaming_bob8591]

You are right on Daniel. Total overhaul needed in the grading business. I've had coins graded by the top 3 companies, and they all seem to be focused on the all mighty dollar instead of customer service.

[@jeffw1267]

CACG is the new kid in town.

[@deanr1963]

Lots of great ideas Daniel. The industry needs some consistency

[@MiguelArias-s8b]

I have coin good now

[@mikeperdew2719]

I agree they are not similar