"Can Immigrants Assimilate?” with Garett Jones

My guest today is Garett Jones. Garett is an associate professor of economics at George Mason University. His interests include macroeconomics, the micro foundations of economic growth, IQ, the power of culture, and public choice economics. The books we focus on in this episode are "10% Less Democracy: Why You Should Trust Elites a Little More and the Masses a Little Less" and "The Culture Transplant: How Migrants Make the Economies They Move To a Lot Like the Ones They Left"
We talk about the intellectual environment of George Mason University. We talk about about UAPs. We discuss the benefits and drawbacks of democracy. We discuss the possibility of so-called benign dictatorships. We talk about the crisis of expertise, the Electoral College and then we move on to the topic of immigration. We talk about whether and in what ways immigrants assimilate. We talk about the idea of the melting pot. We discuss high trust versus low trust cultures and much more. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.
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[@garywood97]

On the trust in elites question, it seems like the key factor for me is whether they're operating in a meritocratic environment where there is clear accountability for being wrong or corrupt. It's when people notice that's not happening that they start to lose trust.

[@michaeltorrisi7289]

My favorite example is the Progressive movement of the early 1900's. Every expert out there, every academic, every luminary, was pro-eugenics and pro-race science. They were also frequently in favor of the bulk of the Marxian critique of Classical Liberalism and very pro-Socialism. This lead to French Syndicalism which then lead to Italian Fascism on one side and into the pro-Eugenics bent of Nazi Germany on the other. Of course, Fascism and Nazism are reviled today, so I think a lot of people who haven't dipped into the history would not appreciate that in America, the elites were generally sympathetic to both ideologies. Perhaps they know that Henry Ford was a Nazi sympathizer, but they don't recognize that the underpinnings of those ideologies were viewed very favorably by the overwhelming majority of intellectuals of the time period. Point is, the elites are often wrong, but in part BECAUSE they're so smart, they're better at rationalizing their mistakes. They can create more believable bullshit to prop up their wrong ideas than Jim the assembly-line worker can. I don't think that it's a coincidence that a freer society based on Classical Liberal ideals has hit more innovations faster than the old Monarchist systems where enterprise was dependent on patronage. Replacing monarchs with professors doesn't solve the fundamental problem that being more hierarchical created in the first place. Trying more things leads to more successes. That's without even getting into what is often a system of perverse incentives (think Dr. Fauci working to downplay any look into the possibility of a lab leak to save his own career) leading away from truth.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

"Some ideas are so stupid only intellectuals believe them."

[@thecrimsondragon9744]

Like here in the UK. No matter how bad our politicians, bankers, corporate CEOs etc screw up, accountability is flimsy at best and they get a slap on the wrist at most, regardless of how many lives they may have ruined.

[@margaretsnyder1491]

It surprised me that in the discussion on democracy there was no reference to any writings by the Founders or to de Toqueville. It was as if no one had ever thought about these things before. Or maybe I blinked and missed something.

[@4x4r974]

I think people fundamentally misunderstand the case of Singapore. Yes, the growth was impressive, but even simple things like Coleman's podcast cannot exist there. Coleman could have been prosecuted based on a billion different laws, POFMA, 'racial harmony' laws and so on. Everyone I know from there self-censors on the daily and presents a front in public. The guest could never hold an academic job if the government decided one day he had stepped over some new invisible line. And these are just for starters. Unfortunately the pragmatism and expertise that is useful in technical governance are also used against the people

[@kimjin-hyub3413]

45:21

[@kimjin-hyub3413]

45:21

[@ColemanHughesOfficial]

Thanks for watching my latest episode. Let me know your thoughts and opinions down below in a comment. If you like my content and want to support me, consider becoming a paying member of the Coleman Unfiltered Community here --> bit.ly/3B1GAlS

[@mmf356]

Great episode! I’m from León in northwestern Spain, my city was destroyed 2 times by the Muslins, and we had to pay tribute for quite some time, maids included, it was not a peaceful invasion/colonisation.

[@VaibhavChimalgi]

Singapore is a city and a port city along the trade route. It really shouldn't be used as a reference to countries.

[@andrewfox368]

Singapore and Hong Kong alike were perfectly situated (historically and geographically) city-states whose success only required comparatively open and free markets and a hardworking populace.

[@chrisocony]

I think the claim that every Supreme Court Justice would have been removed if we had a referendum mechanism enabling that is not only highly conjectural but also quite unlikely.

[@ZenWaveFunction]

That depend what kind of immigrants. Many from Asian and Latin America can be integrated into American society whether they are documented or undocumented as opposed to the one from Arab nations where most were brought from up from authoritarian and tribal culture. Also you cannot compare Kurds and Iranian with Arab cultures. I am glad most Iranian today are willing stand against fascist religious authority after the death of Mahsa Amini. Not discriminating against most Arab or Pakistanian but sorry to say most of Arab and Pakistanian influence by toxic religious and social conservative culture which also is very antisemitic.

[@godscroissant1539]

That doesn’t apply to Turks, Armenians and Iranians.

[@ZenWaveFunction]

@@godscroissant1539 Most Iranian today are not too fond of Islamism

[@SEKreiver]

Iranians, Kurds and Armenians are ethnically distinct from Arabs and have always considered themselves to be so. In fact, all three are related to the majority of Europeans.

[@lesliefish4753]

It depends on how much the immigrants, and their children, *want* to assimilate. My grandparents fought to get to America, and couldn't wait to become Americans. Their kids inherited that intention. The second generation could still speak the Old Country language, but the third generation never heard it.

[@Bibirallie]

Well that’s sad.

[@firstlast9916]

No such thing as becoming American. It’s fascist fantasy gobldygoop.

[@SEKreiver]

@@Bibirallie How is that "sad"? It's the only way the system even remotely has a chance to work. If immigrants actually want to be AMERICANS (rather than just economic migrants) then they need to leave the 'Old Country' behind: language, customs, everything.

[@glocofrmrxncho1836]

Holy sh*t, he's trying to rationalize the Great Reset..🤯🤯🤯

[@robertpettigrew9602]

I love how this guy critiques democracies and populaces movements while completely ignoring the US the single largest example of how well these things can work

[@SEKreiver]

"Those things" AREN'T working. The US never saw the SCALE of immigration that it has in the last 50+ years. In fact, there were fairly long periods where there was NO immigration worth noting. ALSO, there was no welfare net until 60yrs ago. The entire equation has been changed...and it was a flawed equation to begin with. Now that the money is running out, the cracks are starting to appear.

[@jasonraider3737]

I see the value of expertise, as a general rule I assume that a TRUSTED individuals who spent their lives working a particular field (my electrician, my doctor, my lawyer, etc.) is more knowledgable than I am in their respective field. The problem is that hubris and human error have led some expert institutions towards major failures, such as the invasion of Iraq & Afghanistan, multiple financial collapses, etc. And in the case of the CDC, we have seen political motivations sometimes supplant science. All of the above led to an erosion of trust in expert institutions and seeking alternative experts and institutions. The problem is that the individuals and institutions that some populists have turned to are often worse than the ones they are rejecting, such as Trump...

[@davidbaca329]

I suggest Coleman read Peter Gay's The Cultivation of Hatred on the 19th century origins of today's politics and much more in Western Europe and the US.

[@sixteenstringjack]

Not wanting to be pedantic but 'Jane Eyre' wasn't one of the Bronte sisters, it's the title of a novel by Charlotte Bronte, and it's pronounced air 🙂

[@hooligan9794]

I like this guy less and less the more I hear from him...

[@siggyincr7447]

Please elaborate.

[@SamUrtonDesign]

Same.

[@ALeaud]

Because you're a populist. That's why.

[@hooligan9794]

@ALeaud Riiiight. You have deductive powers that Sherlock Holmes would envy. Literally no evidence at all, and here you are drawing conclusions! Bizarre conclusions, but conclusions!

[@oliviersupplice7967]

If you want a reason is because he sounds condescending unless you don't consider yourself the people because he obviously considers himself the elite

[@ltmund]

Economic Experts prior to the financial crash: everything is fine, keep spending...

[@firstlast9916]

Pretty much every economist knew the housing bubble was going to burst in 2008. Sub prime mortgages were government incentivezed by the way. Thomas sowell details how the government caused the housing boom. And how it caused todays housing bubble.

[@ltmund]

@@firstlast9916 If they knew they deliberately lied. Only a select few called it. They were publicly ridiculed. Then, after it happened, they claimed "noone could have known"

[@firstlast9916]

You don’t have to be an economist to realize that if a house triples in value over a short time then there is something wrong. No economist said it was normal market increases. Find me an economist that says that the market has caused housing prices to triple again now.

[@ltmund]

@@firstlast9916 Do you not remember the middle class obsession with buy to let? The disgusting dinner parties where people discussed their property portfolios? The whole thing was nuts, and economists joined in. The few that spoke up were called doomsayers (or worse) Governments called it the end of boom and bust. It was nuts

[@firstlast9916]

Why doesn’t it happen in any other industry then? Why is it just real estate and crude oil that are regulated to the extreme that these fluctuations happen so often? Government is the root cause of every horrific thing society is plagued with.

[@DigoronKavkaz]

We should engage with the idea of the Great Replacement

[@Jules-Is-a-Guy]

Very good episode thnx.

[@user-po4cz9io9z]

Great interview. Very interesting.

[@PhilosophyofDataScience]

Electoral college is one of many items put in place to limit the power of majority interests from oppressing minority interests. I started out opposed to it before I understood it. It is not merely a bad design, though maybe it could be improved, it is effective in protecting minority interests, and we need that more than ever regardless of who that happens to be at any given time.

[@beemo9]

Seems it's more about protecting rural interests than minority groups in general.

[@PhilosophyofDataScience]

@Cherimoya9 rural interests are minority interests. Unfortunately that word has lost much of its deeper meaning in place of a more superficial one that is leveraged to make urban majority interests appear to have minority grounds.

[@kimjin-hyub3413]

TIME STAMPS ? TIME STAMPS ?? TIME STAMPS ??? Please

[@psikeyhackr6914]

Why don't we have mandatory accounting in the schools and economists promoting the idea?

[@ektran4205]

there are anti assimilation political groups in the u.s. assimilation in public but not assimilated in private

[@firstlast9916]

Assimilation is probably the dumbest word in the English language. Like babies are assimilating to American culture in American households. It’s just a dumb word.

[@Timur21]

I dont think the “aliens wouldnt only be crashing in north america” is the right framing.. The framing that would make the most sense to me if aliens were real is the “aliens are experimenting with us” theory. That would mean that theyve observed us, they know our tech, they know how to avoid detection and they’re just experimenting with us in the same way that we’d expriment with ants.

[@user-om8be7ie6t]

Serious question. I have been running into difficulties trying to find a facility that provide IQ testing. Could anyone point me in the right direction in order to obtain a accurate IQ assessment?

[@JohnVandivier]

~45:30 "they're probably doing it because the lobbyists are like...we might give your son a job" so real for that haha

[@JohnVandivier]

"Open borders for anyone who believes in Uber surge pricing" is omnipilled hyperbased

[@filmjazz]

Free trade: you can have "cheap stuff" but everyone knows it's cheap, low quality, and built to fail, and your wages are massively depressed while the country falls into decay. Economic protectionism: your "stuff" is more expensive but your wages are much higher and everyone takes pride in the goods they produce. Sometimes I think these economists are paid to justify the aims of the financial elites, and it's even more insulting when someone saying that also states that we have "too much democracy" and more decisions should be insulated from the voters. Am I missing something here? 27 minutes in and I strongly disagree with this whole take. It's an Ivory Tower insult to my intelligence. For another, similarly absurd take see Peter Coy's opinion piece in the New York Times arguing against fixed rate mortgages, and how they "aren't good for the economy" (aka "the financial industry"), and then read the 100% of comments calling that out as ridiculous and tone deaf.

[@SamUrtonDesign]

LOL! At precisely the same 27 min mark I came to the same conclusion as you. You're not missing anything here.

[@ALeaud]

If this is true, then why don't populists produce better results? Everytime you guys come into power the economy does HORRIBLY in basically every single country you take power in. Why?

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

True believers don't need to be paid

[@derrickjohnson4952]

But do they have too in the first place ? If you are an immigrant & believe at least In human rights & are against violating them that’s enough for me.

[@pistolen87]

"The chances of them (UAPs) showing up in very hazy photographs on military monitors, like that is a very narrow range of evidence that should exist, if there's other life in the universe" - Couldn't it be that that UAPs are trying to evade human detection?

[@adtastic1533]

LOL! Smart enough to travel millions of light years across the universe but apparently not smart enough to avoid crash landing into a redneck's pig farm and think giving him an anal probe is a good idea.

[@joebloggs1261]

yes.

[@LS-xs7sg]

I wonder to what extent the persistance of these attitudes to savings and the state are a genetic inheritance. If there is even a relatively small genetic component it has quite significant implications in terms of what immigration policy you would want to pursue

[@llrmiller]

I now think an expert that had been in the area for years that wills the good of “the foreigner and the widow” is better than an expert from DC. Populism rightly highlights very real issues. Good experts should not dismiss their concerns.

[@ALeaud]

Populism highlights a lot of right issues but presents absurd solutions. We've seen this pretty much everywhere. Everywhere populists take over they run into the ground.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

The way many act like populist are reacting against issues that don't exist is insufferable.

[@lucienmott9648]

Fun discusion.

[@NineInchTyrone]

The poor in Singapore are REALLY poor even though they may labor 60 hours a week

[@bobbiecoldiron9883]

He comes off as a condescending jerk, has no counterpoint where his theory fails, but he does have a few good points.

[@swcordovaf]

As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I find this guest more fair and charitable to his old faith unlike most defectors who “leave the church but can’t leave the church alone”, meaning they just grind the ax endlessly as someone with a pebble in their shoe. Kuddos.

[@mongreen81]

Coleman “mhmm” Hughes 😂

[@Shambayamiti]

"I think people who often prefer the people over the elites quickly dive into some subset of the people." That statement encapsulates how I see these new age thinkers like this interviewer.

[@lawrencefrost9063]

"new age thinkers like this interviewer" Excuse me what?

[@valuedCustomer2929]

And then the 3rd or 4th generation is often wke

[@cdineaglecollapsecenter4672]

While it's unlikely we're the only "intelligent" (by which you apparently mean "technological" because there are plenty of other intelligent, but non-technological species on earth) it's unlikely that any of them developed interstellar travel.

[@jeran881]

This guy really loves "fee trade agreements ". I guess he has no family members in the rust belt.

[@neondiplomat]

coleman, brother, I hope you’ll get to see this. I have yet to make the contributions that you have as a heterodox, but I really think we’d do well do meet in the future. not even being a weirdo lol but we have too much in common in background and ideology not to.

[@jamesgorham8170]

An economist on and not a single question about class stratification and wage inequity in a hyper market country?

[@panushjo]

Well, he would say the correct thing.Wage "inequality" is irrelevant considering people live hundred times better than they did 50 years ago in America with way less inequality

[@NineInchTyrone]

Trust elites ? RUFKM ?

[@ThoughtsEtcEtcEtc]

With you that Grusch seems nuts/not credible but in my purview David Fravor seems credible.

[@michaellapalme1198]

Coleman… PLEASE STOP EXHALING INTO YOUR MICROPHONE. Your work needs to be heard; please don’t make it hard to listen to.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

As if the right of anyone to immigrate into the US is protected by the Bill of Rights. Lolbert cringe

[@Seevawonderloaf]

I will say that as an immigrant we struggle also to maintain our original cultures, some of which has made some of us massively successful. But the only reason we are here is bc someone came to our homes and destroyed economically vibrant nations. I hope everyone remembers that in 100 years your descendants might be going to those 'shithole' countries for work and they'll be facing the same demand to give up their American-ness

[@azbushrat]

Want to give some examples...?

[@FaceFcuk]

😂 HILARIOUS

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

Cool story but no, Americans won't be. Especially not within 100 years.

[@punyashloka4946]

​@@chickenfishhybrid44it is going to happen in less than 100 years, Third world economy is on rise, while western economy has started to decline , including USA, dollar is declining, 3rd world countries is becoming more diverse, BRICKS is on the rise, we are moving into a multipolar world, West is not The Centre of the world anymore. World is changing on a faster rate. Reverse immigration from west to east is going to happen on some level at least.

[@Seevawonderloaf]

@@chickenfishhybrid44😂😂 yes you probably won’t. Most of you don’t even know where your own country is in comparison to the rest of the world