COLOSSAL 22-Insert Face Mill Leaves INSANE Surface Finish

[@Javelina_Poppers]

Everybody loves a good finish no matter what the specs call for. I used to machine large aluminum front frame motor mounts for turbofans and we used .750 end mills to side mill between the rails. The tool salesman showed up with a new two flute end with a .060 radius he called a SkiCarb. We started getting mirror finishes and that was side milling. Good tools make all the difference.

[@ClockwerkIndustries]

Thats also a great method for creeping in good fits on dowel pin holes, you feel like you wanna add another half thou to cutter comp, but sometimes you just need to run it again and get a perfect fit.

[@MrXtacle]

yup, gotta account for tool deflection when machining tight tolerances. Inconel is the worst with this, you're creeping up on a Ø20 +0.02mm tolerance, you can be at Ø19.98 take a spring pass, and end up at Ø20.03 real easily if your finish pass was too large. Gotta creep up at it sometimes.

[@kw2519]

Spring passes are your friend. But also consistent cut pressure.

[@rayp.454]

Some folks would not think of doing a spring pass before hitting final depth. Great job Barry.

[@trdscfjc]

Will this cutter work on my Harbor Freight mini mill ?

[@cloudade]

Love seeing this and learning a bit more about this side of machining. Ive been doing only field work in industrial sites

[@Joe___R]

This is an example of why it is a good idea to recut the finish pass on high precision parts. As good as programs are they still can't calculate for the exact amount a tool or the work piece will deflect during a cut.

[@flikflak24]

2:50 and that's why I love face mills with hight adjustable pockets ( and made that for my own mcd face mill ) since that way I can minimize them to there absolute minimum. By adjusting every insert to the one that hangs out the most

[@rosswerblanco1967]

!!!Congratulations!!!!for the excelent work!!!!!Is a Marvelous and Very Impresionant!!!!

[@TylerTITANSofCNCTippit]

Nice video Barry!

[@jamescerven4400]

It's kinda cool that even though these parts aren't for a customer, you still hold important tolerances and finishes

[@HandyDan]

Awesome tips. I always run a spring pass on any tight measurement. Then you can measure the exact final pass before rerunning it too deep.

[@zajawamotocykle9256]

Barry you are King

[@barrysetzer]

Hi ZJ!

[@ogeoffreys]

I'm not doubting the guys view on it being quicker to run the big face mill and finish the areas it couldn't reach with an end mill, but by the time someone has stopped the machine and taken the time to check the difference in height between the 2 operations, and the machine has run a second spring pass, I'd question whether it would have taken the same time or less to run a smaller face mill that could have completed the job in 1 operation and the time used to check the 2 op's used elsewhere 🤷‍♂️ who knows!

[@strzaua123]

but it's super worth it in production. you check only the first time and then you get that bonus time with every single piece you make

[@ogeoffreys]

@@strzaua123 that makes sense 👍 I was looking at it from the perspective of one off parts...

[@adriand.896]

Barry did also mention wanting to minimize the tooling(witness) marks, so using a giant cutter helps cut down on that.

[@theusualsuspect9386]

I really want to do this. I've run CNC saws and routers in cabinet shops. This is definitely what i want to do.

[@andrewbeaton3302]

Love this!

[@leensteed7861]

I see machines like that and it makes me wish I had a job for it so I could justify the purchase

[@richardunis9204]

Excellent video great information💪

[@samuelwragg8615]

That's a baby cutter. At times I use to use a 750dia side & face mill. Love your videos.. they're so informative. A machinist never stops learning

[@CocoBrother2707]

Waldrich Coburg?

[@samuelwragg8615]

@@CocoBrother2707 I have worked a Coburg(a beast of a machine) at a Sheffield company called Davy's. My prime machine was an Asquith post Miller with 10" spindle.

[@CocoBrother2707]

we have two waldrich coburg i love these machines. The Power and the accuracy of these two full hydrostatic monsters is unique.

[@samuelwragg8615]

@@CocoBrother2707 even with 350T castings on the table the coburg still held its accuracy.

[@CocoBrother2707]

@@samuelwragg8615 😍

[@gman3725]

So nice!

[@crazycooterMN]

Good old ghost pass for the win!

[@MrCoffeypaul]

Experience or just good instincts?

[@shellybelly9205]

Surface finish and dimensions in spec without coolant, are the part gonna be use for its intended purpose?

[@fightswithspirits915]

Hog it! Hog it!

[@Justajiujitsuguy]

Why not use a wiper insert on the face mill? I’ve experienced much better surface finishes with little to no visible tool marks? Just curious

[@Grabos_paints]

Or use CBN inserts which are great for running dry and leaving awesome finish

[@ChainLightningbolts]

Hey Barry, completely unrelated question to machining, but what does the pentagram tattoo on your arm stand for?

[@barrysetzer]

It is representative of intelligent design (divine proportion), or the idea that God created the universe. The Greek symbol Phi inside the star is the mathematical symbol for the Golden number, or 1.618. If you google divine proportion or the golden number, you can read more about it. Sorry, I'm a math and geometry nerd!

[@cyber2526]

i'd love seeing y'all going to town on some plastics

[@TITANSofCNC]

I have a cool trick project next week

[@cyber2526]

@@TITANSofCNC is it the vise? Haha

[@rhindy6846]

What's the biggest depth of cut you have taken with the 8 inch face mill??

[@barrysetzer]

I was only able to get away with .050” here. I tried going for .100”, but had a less ideal vibration profile, so went to .050.

[@hotlaprc1980]

@@barrysetzer had you taken every other insert out, it may have reduced the vibration which would have made for a higher chip load. not sure on the edge prep or hone either, but a T-Land Edge with a large hone with that low of a DOC, could have caused the vibration issue as well

[@barrysetzer]

@@hotlaprc1980 Good pointers!

[@adammiller4879]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I was taught by some older timers that less inserts ( like a fly cutter) left the best or better finishes. Iv never used a single insert cutter for facing before so I don’t know.

[@blueovalfan23]

it's strange, i run a mill and cnc at work. that mill, 2 blade, is ok and great if i'm not rushed, the 8 blade mill if adjusted right is the best and the 16 blade when adjusted right can yield similar results. of those options, i'd pick cnc 8 blade every time hands down for surface finish but out mill hasn't live a happy life before me lol. I might be wrong, just my limited experience. i think it really comes down to feeds, speeds and proper tool adjustment.

[@copperlemon1]

Generally it is easier to get great finishes using a fly cutter, but this is going to be at the cost of speed; from both a reduction in feed rate and depth of cut. The biggest factor, I think, is that the cutting edges of a face mill are always going to be at different heights, on account of differently sized inserts (common "M" class inserts are made with a tolerance of +/- .005 for the inscribed circles), debris in the in the seat, or wear to the seat. Face mills with adjustable cartridges are available, but they are painstaking to set up and even then there will always be discrepancies. A fly cutter, having a single cutting edge, has no such problems.

[@adammiller4879]

@@copperlemon1 generally it’s common practice for important parts to touch off every single insert and record your lowest one as your tool height, and they make some with “wiper” insert mounts that are tenths lower to “wipe” material clean

[@daveyt4802]

Hope you hit the E-stop before climbing in there!

[@barrysetzer]

Hahaha, we HAVE to hit estop before filming in there, or the sound of rushing air would prevent you from hearing me talk at all

[@matthewperlman3356]

Sounds like basically the same principle as a spring pass in manual lathe work.

[@steviemill]

Cogsdill diamond burnishing face mill for that application

[@GuardianLords]

Massive stock, massive labor. How much would you typically charge for a piece like this?

[@rodsilva80]

How much for the Ibarmia?

[@dovemfg]

Some of these tools cost more than the machine I’m using

[@mjshorty19]

I guess if the profilometer says it's that then it probably is but that looks wayyyy rougher than any 32 finish I've had to make on a mill

[@joelmacdonald6994]

What condition is that 4140? I cut 4140 HTSR almost daily, and I don’t get decent tool life with the SFMs you’re showing. I can usually run 600 with most of our indexables, and 450 with solid tools.

[@chrisperry8510]

What is that tattoo of on your right arm? It appears to be a pentagram?

[@danhnguyen435]

Boom

[@TheOutbackIndustries]

Good video showing this. But I wish y’all would have shown finishing with the facemill.

[@barrysetzer]

When we are looking for a good finish, we almost always run coolant, and run slower. In this case I ran the finishing at 10 ipm (we were roughing at 40), so it just doesn't make for engaging video. I stood here watching it run, couldn't see anything, and was falling asleep with my eyes open LOL

[@TheOutbackIndustries]

@@barrysetzer hahaha yeah didn’t even think about the coolant! It’s always great when u trust your program and can’t see anything and then hear a grinding noise when ur about half asleep. Or a great coworker throws a piece of metal against the floor…. 🤯

[@michaelguziak4680]

Why didn't you get the 60 cutter version.?

[@barrysetzer]

I didn't even know there WAS one!

[@marcinmakowski8556]

Hey Barry, surface finish should be checked perpendicularly to the cutting marks.

[@barrysetzer]

Yeah, sorry. I felt like i was playing Twister for the camera. I couldnt really see what I was doing, but we checked it in several places correctly

[@firebry23]

@@barrysetzer I like how you commet on the videos your in👍Keep up the good work!

[@barrysetzer]

@@firebry23 Thanks firebry! I think it's important to answer questions that people have, alot of times the reason we do something is not immediately obvious when watching the videos, like in this case. Thanks for watching!

[@HailosDragon]

Did you guys just get this machine? What's the reason for selling it?

[@ambydaly5713]

Why no cutting fluid?

[@TITANSofCNC]

Just for filming purposes

[@danielwatts9803]

and still to this day NOBODY can figure out how ancient Africans in Egypt created more precise masterpieces from stone WITHOUT steel tools . . .

[@barrysetzer]

I think about that alot too. Im a fan of ancient history, and look at the square pockets and round deep holes they made in basalt and granite, and it just doesn't make sense.....

[@StCreed]

Give it time. If you keep polishing away for years you can reach amazing smoothness.

[@nerd1000ify]

@@StCreed This. Nobody bats an eye at people being able to hit tolerances of less than 0.0001" with nothing but a hand scraper and some engineer's blue. It just takes time (and strong wrists!).

[@timrussell7302]

Why is the indicator at .015 regardless of our shot? This is not accurate or acceptable for tool makers.

[@barrysetzer]

What do you mean? Its a .0005” increment indicator…..I loaded it to .015 just to have a point of reference

[@AntalopeAUT]

Little hint for the endmill mismatch : Gaugeblock to perfectly match the toollength of the endmill to the facemill (process goes as this: facemill to desired measurements -> get out the endmill -> move endmill over facemilled area -> use gaugeblock (ceramics for extra heatresistance) to perfectly adjust toollength to facemilled surface -> run the endmill -> check areas with indicator for mismatches) mismatch should be sub 0,01 mm or there is something fishy ... P.s.: Hmmm, I´ve done nicer surfaces on gas-turbine halves (steamtightness), so speaking of insane surface finish is way exaggerated, but it still ain´t too shabby :) I personally speak of insane surfaces if I manage to get close to ground surfaces with milling/turning . P.p.s: Use metric already ... way easier to use and less cluttering on y´all drawings .

[@benjaminbergmann2607]

Obviously tool length wasnt his problem (otherwise the spring pass would do nothing). Finish: Thought the same, but not doing any 4140. DRY! Asume that's his main problem, filming, milling AND perfect surface is always a problem... You can only have 2 of them at once :D Metric: FUKC YEAH! What I was confused with his "five tenth" of an inch/foot/apple... Still not sure what the actual value was. 0.0005in? So unneccessary, just use a decent system :P

[@adamcreek4027]

Barry I know u measured the surface finish and its passed the specifications, but in my company that surface finish would not be acceptable it may measure correct but the visual isn't good coming off the machine

[@leensteed7861]

The finish always goes dull on a spring pass as it isn't burnishing the surface properly. I'd increase the speed for a spring cut to keep the shine

[@dalibornovakovic93]

Maybe it's just me but the finishing requirements were pretty low for that part. I work with the metric system and 1/10 of a mm is a big difference between the two surfaces. I can feel it with 5/100 of a mm.

[@barrysetzer]

The movement on the indicator was less than 1/100 of a mm

[@bugking5]

Hes using imperial. 1 tenth=0.0001inch=0.00254mm

[@Num6er47]

Ahh the ghost pass

[@glencunningham7192]

Does titans of cnc actually make a profit on parts they make or is it all promotional they have a new $500k machine or tool every week

[@andrewchong8641]

This is the most out of pocket title ever😂😂 they knew what they were saying

[@fishsticks88]

That's alot of cutter comp

[@zagareth4604]

well, you can call yourself experienced, when you are able to get the mismatch just with your finger and not with an indicator ;-)

[@Steelheadwalleyemusky]

Stop

[@supremecommander2398]

only once critism - please normalise the sound volumes of your clips. with the slightest noise around me, i can hardly understand what you are saying, but when i turn up the volume, the very next clip is extreme loud milling action.

[@SharhbiniRauf]

METAL MILING METAL IS OUT OF DATE, USE HIGH CURRENT LASER ENGRAVED CNC MACHINE.

[@olgoj4675]

WHy not use touch probe instead of manual indicator?

[@barrysetzer]

We could have done that. Same result, though.

[@olgoj4675]

@@barrysetzer yeah. indicator looks better in the video lol

[@joshua43214]

Indicator is more informative since it slides over the boundary between tools. a touch probe will not catch a small score or ridge at the boundary between tools.

[@barrysetzer]

@@olgoj4675 Hahaha, exactly. If I had used the probe, noone would believe me if I said it was perfect!!

[@Jonners]

Not gonna lie, was expecting a much better finish than that.

[@barrysetzer]

Better than a 19 with milling? And just to be clear, I checked it at the WORST possible spot!

[@Jonners]

@@barrysetzer yes. A fair bit better with that many cutting edges on a finishing tool.

[@soccerdefender2588]

Imagine crashing that thing! 😂

[@barrysetzer]

Dont jinx me 😂

[@soccerdefender2588]

@@barrysetzer how much is that entire face mill? (Including arbor, inserts etc.)

[@leensteed7861]

It's in good hands. Loving hands.. stroking the cabinet.. the heavy duty milling head...

[@Num6er47]

My stomach turns just reading this lol

[@1Corinthians151-4]

this is the part you wanted us to guess how to hold? wow, now that i see the part, yeah, this is how you go about it. sigh. dumb how you made us try to guess something without seeing the print.

[@barrysetzer]

Yet, over 1,000 people guessed, minus YOU.

[@1Corinthians151-4]

@@barrysetzer no harm no foul, of course that's an option by dovetail, but why were we not we allowed to see the print.

[@jack-dg1rz]

Ma scusa con il rugosimetro che minchia di finitura è venuta fuori bruttissima