Coloursoft have always been my favourites. I just bought 48 of the Chromaflow, I love them too but was disappointed at how much thinner they are. They do lay down beautifully, I just prefer a much thicker barrel.
@dg_arty2 жыл бұрын
To avoid a muddy purple, try using an actual magenta colour with a cyan, that's the combo to get a purer purple. For colour mixing, you get the best results with the CMYK system, especially with physical paints and coloured pencils. Something lots of people get wrong, as they are learned the RYB colour model at school, which isn't the same.
@ColourwithClaire2 жыл бұрын
Great tip!
@ReverieOfThorns6 ай бұрын
Oh that's a great tip! I never thought of that
@andikovacs89 Жыл бұрын
This is the best comparison video i've ever seen, you've helped me to make my choice 🥰 Thank you!
@donnajones63792 жыл бұрын
Hey Claire! I do have both types of pencils. I really never enjoyed using the coloursoft pencils but I do love their thickness. Really love using my chromaflow pencils.....love their buttery laid down and so easy to blend. The only bad thing I noticed with mine and a couple of my friends have them is the orange pencil. It just kept breaking while trying to sharpen it.... Plus I just wished their barrel was the same thickness has their other Derwent pencils
@rorilee97912 жыл бұрын
I got a small set of these, and then liked them so much I bought the 72 set. Sadly, I've had multiple breakages with them (the whole core). NOT what I expect from Derwent in terms of QC--which is really unfortunate. I know they were trying to make something similar to Prismacolor, but they needn't have made them THAT similar ;) I hope their QC gets better, bc these pencils otherwise are fantastic.
@HarperSophia Жыл бұрын
Lollll
@Bassbarbie Жыл бұрын
That made me smile. I've heard how Prismacolor break 🤣 I wonder if they were dropped in transit?
@deborahesposti24732 жыл бұрын
I have had these in my cart for sometime now. This week they were on sale so after watching your review and seeing how viberant the colors are I hit the purchase button. I have hear alot of comments on breakage, so as I do with Prismacolor pencils, I will place them in a heating pad for a half hour to try and mend any broken cores before I sharpen and swatch. Looking forward to using these pencils, I love Derwent pencils.
@cheryldodge51262 жыл бұрын
Thank you Claire so much for your review. You gave us a clear concise review in just 10 minutes which I appreciate. All the info I need to consider a purchase of Chromaflow.
@Joannamation Жыл бұрын
Fantastic review! Your in-depth experiments were really helpful & your voice is lovely to listen to. I've only just found out about Chromaflow, & am debating whether to get the full set. They look like an absolute dream to use; I'm a sucker for rich buttery colours. I have the full Coloursoft range, but I've always wished they were just that bit more velvety in texture. These look like the closest thing to a pencil equivalent of oil paint. I think they're going to end up in my collection!
@larysacherner312Ай бұрын
Thank you very much for an excellent review!
@drbettyschueler3235 Жыл бұрын
I was surprised at how easily it was for me to use my Black Widow pencils. Like the Chromoflow, they literally glided across my paper. Since I have hand issues, that is a huge plus. I have the more expensive Derwent pencils and now I think I'll get the Chromoflow pencils. Thanks for the reviews and comparison.
@PursuingHeaven2 жыл бұрын
Claire best review of the pencils so far I have seen, you always answer the questions I need and I appreciate that. I want them but not as badly as I want a few other brands I don't have yet (Derwent Drawing), but these are on wish list... I have a set of 36 Colour Soft. I don't really like them, they do not have the tactile appeal that other pencils have despite being soft. Too Dry
@catlady2567 ай бұрын
Just got the 150 set and am very impressed with them. I had the other sets as they came out and love them. Thank you for your in-depth review of them.
@ColourwithClaire7 ай бұрын
Glad you like them!
@TravisBrady-wn8fr4 ай бұрын
I had sharpening problems too. I only have the 12. Thinking i will save and get the polychromos
@art.Shantha2 жыл бұрын
I love the way you colored the pictures, thank you for the review .
@bleuvertetforetdepin73082 жыл бұрын
the pencils perform great, like breathtaking great. but here in France, the 120 polychromos set sells for 170 euros on Amazon , the 72 chromaflow set is 140. So Derwent is making a set with lower standard and they're selling it for almost twice the price of polychromos. Sorry I'm gonna be rude, but that just feel like spitting in my colorist face. that being said. This video is top notch quality. Thank you.
@ColourwithClaire2 жыл бұрын
Hopefully the introductory price will level out soon
@VynilNostalgia30182 жыл бұрын
I agree totally with you. In Germany it is the same. I tested the set of 12 and they are nice pencils, but not really as high standard as Polychromos - but much more expensive.
@tamarascoloringcoven7182 жыл бұрын
I adore the Coloursofts (my #1 VERY VERY fav colored pencils), plan to get the Chromoflows too just so wish that the Chromoflows were sold sep too.
@waymire012 жыл бұрын
I keep hearing they are easy to lay down so I've been interested in trying them.. but I was surprised you kept describing them as budget/student because they are not cheap. Compared to even prismacolor they are quite expensive. You are looking at about $50 for a 24 set, and they don't appear to have open stock at any of the major suppliers.
@ColourwithClaire2 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't say they are budget, but once the introductory prices have settled I'm hoping they will level out. They should definitely be cheaper than Coloursoft because they're not as high quality xx
@claritzairosario682 жыл бұрын
@@ColourwithClaire Exactly, I still don't know the reason why they are so expensive
@ColourwithClaire2 жыл бұрын
@@claritzairosario68 It generally seems to be the case when Derwent release something new, I hope the price falls to be in line with their quality xx
@tanyarobinson11462 жыл бұрын
I like them much better than my colour soft. Colour soft crumbles, breaks and don't blend well at all. So far my little use of these ones are much better. I regret my purchase of colour soft. That is how much I hate them.
@claritzairosario682 жыл бұрын
@@ColourwithClaire 🙏🏼
@suewilkinson9104 ай бұрын
I've never really gelled with Coloursoft. Apart from a few colours that are all time favourites, loganberry, blackberry, cranberry, lavender and grey lavender. I just can't seem to learn the technique for them. I'm a layering girl and I can't layer them far enough at all. I have just treated myself to 48 Chromaflow (that was the best priced set on Amazon apart from the full 120, which I can't afford right now) and I'm really enjoying them. I love the colours and I love the letdown and feel of them. I'm getting nice results for my style of colouring. I can layer and blend them nicely. So much more satisfying than the Coloursoft for me anyway. Full set might just have to go on my Christmas list.
@maryrartist29057 ай бұрын
Omg 😮 love it….can you do the same coloring with Fabre Castell polychromos?. Please..thanks
@mohawk146167 ай бұрын
Excellent review and comparison. I think the physical quality of the chromaflows are the worst that Derwent ever made. I would think they would have done some more testing before releasing them. The wood chips, is not bonded good to the lead and the lead breakage is totally unacceptable. If I wanted a pencil like what I just described I would of bought prismacolors. With that being said, I freaking love these chromaflows. They are everything you expressed in your review. For normal everyday use and experimenting, these are my go to pencils. There is no way you can get this rich vibrant color and laydown with any others that I have tried. I'm glad they stayed with the 72 count. To me and what I want out of them that is the sweet spot for a color range. I still love my beloved Faber Castell but these have impressed me so much that I have been using them the most of late. Thank you for your channel and everything that you do for the art/hobbyist communities. You videos are always great quality with great audio and are concise and well planned!
@ColourwithClaire7 ай бұрын
Thank you for your comment! Chromaflow have just been extended to 150 colours, so that’s exciting. I think the thinner barrel and cheaper wood was a conscious choice as these are Derwent’s alternative to Prismacolor, in build quality and price x
@ReverieOfThorns25 күн бұрын
Prismacolors have better wood than the Chromaflows! Some crack but they don't splinter (at least none of mine have and I've been using them for the last fifteen years) like the Chromaflows do, which is incredibly disappointing. I have no idea why they chose such crappy wood!
@juliekershaw9422 жыл бұрын
A really useful comparison and review. I like the vibrancy of the colours and the fact that you don’t get very much debris and I’ll be looking to add these to my collection.
@Elmcolors2 жыл бұрын
Awesome review! I’ve been holding off on these and with this review, I am very tempted! Thank you ☺️
@Bassbarbie Жыл бұрын
Fantastic review thank you. I love that you don't waffle, it's all useful information. My only question is, are the Chromaflow likely to suffer from the bloom that you get afterwards sometimes? I have a few coloursoft pencils. Although they lay down beautifully, for me I find it hard to keep a good point, and I'm not all that fond of the finish. I ended up buying some Lightfast pencils which I love, but would like a cheaper range for my 'less effort' drawings - if you know what I mean.
@deedeebattle25222 жыл бұрын
Lovely testing chart, this is a fantastic video, Claire. I use Chromaflow and Coloursoft together. They both work well with Lightfast, also.
@ColourwithClaire2 жыл бұрын
❤️
@ArtisticKatz2 жыл бұрын
I just bought these and so thankful for your video.
@ellenscofield69522 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this comparison. I have the colorsoft set and probably wont be adding these but was unsure until this video. Thanks for the testing sheet too.
@kerrykolors2 жыл бұрын
I agree. I actually love my colorsoft, I prefer the color palette, more softer shades. It was very helpful for Claire to do the comparison.
@devanshi21939 ай бұрын
I have the 24 of chromaflow, i got them to try, cause i already have the entire inktense and many polychromos. And i am so surprised by how soft these were to apply! If i am doing details on my watercolor/ mixed media, i prefer the polychromos, however, for only coloured pencil work i love the chromoflow
@Mirrigold2 жыл бұрын
I don't have Coloursoft but I do have the Chromaflow and I love them, they're excellent quality for the price bracket and I expect they'll reduce in price as the newness wears off. Open stock is available on Derwent's website. I just wish they were the same thickness as their other pencil brands.
@Kylie0507702 жыл бұрын
Great review Claire. Looking forward to to buying the Chromaflow and trying them out.
@EmeralDQueenTV Жыл бұрын
I've just got a set of Chormaflow but I really love the Coloursoft, great video!!
@MunchiesMusicMadness Жыл бұрын
I have the colour soft 36 set and I'm not a fan I'm looking for a guide waxed based pencil I thought chroma flow was higher quality than the prisma people compare the two all the time rhanks for the video it was informative
@amberlesilencia37282 жыл бұрын
A beautiful review as always! I'm looking forward to try these pencils out! Very curious for them. I love your coloring, that you did with them. So vibrant and colorful!
@suebailey2452 жыл бұрын
Great review - thank you! I’m hoping to visit the Derwent Pencil museum later this year, so may just have to visit the shop to buy a Set of Chromaflow! 😉
@jillwiswall53862 жыл бұрын
Very succinct comparison, thanks! You answered all of my questions.
@colourfulpyrate2 жыл бұрын
Wow thank you for such a thorough review! I love that tester sheet you use.
@DiSanzio6 ай бұрын
What a fantastic review! Thank you so much ☺️
@wulfhshado Жыл бұрын
Enabler! Now I NEED these! Between your review and Lindsey's, I must feed the "there's no such thing as too many colored pencils" monster who resides within me. Great review. They are sooo beautiful and won't hurt my hands! YES! Thank you.
@Bassbarbie Жыл бұрын
I have one of those monsters 😂 Do you know how we get rid of them?
@sheilacym8 ай бұрын
@@Bassbarbie…….I think there is something called ‘Strong Willpower”…..you need a strong mixture to take regularly…..but it is not easy to find 🤣🤣🤣
@lo35512 жыл бұрын
Gorgeous colouring Claire.🙌. I have the Coloursoft and just purchased Derwent Drawing pencils and I have most of their sets so I wasn’t going to buy Chromaflow as there seems to be differing opinions on them but from your great review I think I’d have preferred Chromaflow if they’d been out when I was building all my collections. They look so much better than Coloursoft in your comparison and I must admit I rarely use Coloursoft and I would use Chromaflow on your recommendation.🙏 Claire for another wonderful video. I so enjoy your channel.❤🌹
@twingytwango6971 Жыл бұрын
Now this has convinced me to go find some of these. Thanks
@tessobrien83646 ай бұрын
Only 72 open stock available here in nz.... Starting my collection now after watching this.... Heres hoping the rest become available here
@ekaterinashedenkova44396 ай бұрын
Hello!Thank you very much for this video! I have set of Prismacolor which I very love,and set of Polychromos that I don't like how they behaves... so can you please advice, which of Derwent serias (Chrimaflow or Colorsoft) is mostly like a Prisma . I don't want to buy a set which will be like a Polychromos...
@ReverieOfThorns25 күн бұрын
Don't get the Coloursoft, they're (imo) nothing like a Prisma. They're drier and almost have a powdery consistency as well as being far more brittle and being unable to layer very well on smoother paper. I find them to be similar to a dry (chalk) pastel as far as how you use them, but also not because I don't think they blend very well. I like Polychromos pencils, personally, but I really don't like the Coloursoft. They work decently on top of Prismas and together with them, but I'd never use the few I have on their own as they do not work well on any paper I have, cardstock or coloring book paper. I unfortunately do not have the Chromaflows yet so I cannot say how those are as of right now, but I have heard those are closer to the Prismas, although the Chromaflows are harder than Prismas. Colorfully Optimistic here on KZbin might be a great place to look for a review on those as she really loves Prismacolors and I think she might compare the two in a video, but I could very well be misremembering. From what I remember, she didn't like the Chromaflows, though. If you want something softer and easily blendable like the Prismas I'd get the Derwent Drawing pencils (although there are only 24 colors and they're expensive) or the Caran D'ache Luminance pencils (although much more expensive than Prismas). Either are very high quality and I think they'd be more up to your speed in terms of how they feel and their texture on the paper (although the Luminance pencils are a bit drier). Holbeins might also be a good option, although to me they're like the perfect lovechild of a Prismacolor and a Polychromos pencil as they have the higher opacity and more softness like a Prisma as well as being able to layer them very beautifully and having a lead somewhere between the two in terms of softness. A warning though, those are very expensive to obtain outside of Japan and a lot of people do not like them, probably because they perform similarly to an oil pastel. I say buy a few of each (Coloursoft and Chromaflow) open stock if you're able to or get one of those 12 count sets (Coloursoft has a 6 count skin tone set) and judge based on those before investing in a larger set, as I believe colored pencils are an extremely subjective thing and it's all up to personal preference. Perhaps you'll end up disagreeing with me or maybe evern not liking either. Some brick and mortar stores carry pencils open stock, so you can always call a local art store and check with them first to save on shipping costs.
@ekaterinashedenkova443924 күн бұрын
@ReverieOfThorns waw so great answer!!! Thank you very much for such a deep answering
@janeteggleston47642 жыл бұрын
I bought the 24 set to try. I loved the vibrant colors. I found I had trouble getting a smooth lay down with the purple. It had streaks and when I tried to work them out I ended up with what I would call “clumps” of color. I did go ahead with a purchase of 72.
@annmayer82516 ай бұрын
I hate these annoying bumps and lumps. I have recently discovered that sometimes the clumps can be teased out gently with a finely sharpened blender pencil. Good luck!
@yazosoyo2 жыл бұрын
Hi Claire, I already have too much pencils sets but no Polychromos, so these are not up on my priority list. I’m in Mexico, so for the price of these I can get 1.5 sets of 150 Prismacolor Premiere 😊
@snuuby5468 Жыл бұрын
I ordered the set of 72 pencils and was very disappointed with them at first. The tips were breaking off on the paper. I discovered that my set was defective. I returned them and the second set of pencils didn't have tips breaking off. So if this is your problem return them for a new set of pencils. I do love them and they layer well. They are softer than coloursoft pencils. These pencils work well with Worlds of Wonder and Rooms of Wonder coloring books by Johanna Basford.
@katiekofemug2 жыл бұрын
Price point in US - 72 Chromaflow is $101 vs 72 Coloursoft is $83 [today 27May22]. True, Chromaflow has come down from the $145 it was when I put it in my wish list but it's still a ways from my budget for a 72 pencil set. I'm curious how Chromaflow compare to Art-N-Fly 72 set [$26 today]? I love A-n-F for background, earth and ocean tones and find they work wonderful with Coloursoft [which I love] & Arteza, as well as Polys. Anyone compared them to Art-N-Fly yet? I'm so eager for the price to settle on Chromaflow, and I know it will, eventually, esp after all the groovy reviews I've seen. Thanks so much for highlighting these again Claire!!!
@ColourwithClaire2 жыл бұрын
I hope it's just an introductory price and it will go down soon xx
@electrichen62432 жыл бұрын
It would be great to see how they compare with Prismas on price and quality. I'm very disappointed in my Prismacolor pencils and am looking for a replacement.
@shelleys.m.69992 жыл бұрын
Wonderful review Claire! 💕
@pattytolliver26512 жыл бұрын
I have some pencils from both sets and like them both. I am working towards completing both sets.
@sholeesalian-tolentino39722 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the review..I only have the 24set and love it. Thanks also for the free testing page. 😊🥰
@toniblackmore30162 жыл бұрын
Decided to return mine in the first hour. Crumbling cores with two types of Derwent sharpeners, a number of pencils reduced by about 10% before reaching firmer core. Some spectacular colours in the set, really wish they’d worked out.
@ColourwithClaire2 жыл бұрын
Gosh that sounds like damage in transit, did you tell Derwent xx
@user-zn1cq3en8p2 жыл бұрын
Awesome review as always. Loved the comparison between the two pencil sets. I just bought the Chromaflow pencils and am looking forward to trying them. I wonder how they will compare to a Prisma, you know the love hate relationship many of us have. Really appreciate your reviews it is something I have come to trust. Carla
@MarcieColors2 жыл бұрын
Great review, you’ve convinced me that I really need the 72 set Chromoflow pencils, they will be here in 2 days! thank you Claire!
@moniiibelle2 жыл бұрын
here in Poland Chromaflow are way more expensive than Coloursoft... maybe when the y show up open stock I'll try them out... Full set too expensive, I'd have prismacolor 150 set for the same price or close to it.
@chevgage6210 Жыл бұрын
Do you have the lightfastness chart? Derwent doesnt have it posted for chromaflow anymore on their site
@Dooartchannel2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the review! I’ll keep in mind that out of these 2 sets I’d prefer the Chromaflow from what you have shown 😊
@MimosaLockjaw2 жыл бұрын
Great comparison idea!
@jirikir2 жыл бұрын
Way to expensive at the moment. I have the 24set. I use them once, didn't like them so much( mabe wrong paper) . Perhaps I gave them a try if the price ever go down at the castle-art-pencil level.
@brody432142 жыл бұрын
Hi Claire! I love Derwent products and your coloring in this video makes me want the Chromaflow. I love the picture you were coloring. Can you tell me where to find it?
@brody432142 жыл бұрын
Oops! Just founf the link and purchased it and 3 more. Thank you!
@lalitaprasad17922 жыл бұрын
Have you ever try the 24 set of the Derwent drawing pencils?
@ColourwithClaire2 жыл бұрын
Just bought them a few weeks ago
@lalitaprasad17922 жыл бұрын
I look forward to your review. I love your channel and trust your advice.
@valwadsworth30442 жыл бұрын
Another great video. I have both of these sets and I like tge Chromaflow better like you said it is much smoother than the Coloursoft.
@alessandrobavaro7548 Жыл бұрын
I thought they could be compared to Prismacolor but unfortunately they can’t. They aren’t as soft as expected. I owned Coloursoft but I found them too chalky and dusty. At the moment I think that buying a 72 Chromaflow set has been a waste of money. What a pity 😢
@ColourwithClaire Жыл бұрын
No they aren’t as soft as prisma- not much is. I would definitely describe them as smooth, they glide onto the paper. Coloursoft are very dry.
@jenniferwood1442 жыл бұрын
As usual great video, vary informative
@lindseybrett32882 жыл бұрын
Are these pencils available open stock in the uk I’ve tried Jackson’s art supplies they don’t have them ?
@ColourwithClaire2 жыл бұрын
Not as yet I don’t think, I hope they will be in time
@DieterPrivate2 жыл бұрын
How do these compare to Posca Pencils? I would like to find a similar pencil to extend my colour range, as I love to use them.
@ColourwithClaire2 жыл бұрын
They are not as soft and mushy as posca pencils. Like you I would love them to extend the range because the poscas are beautiful to use x
@riamaas2 жыл бұрын
thank you, very helpful explaining
@grahamekellermeier82802 жыл бұрын
Derwent pencil are nice to use but the price, they cost more than the Fabercastel polycromos.
@mohawk146167 ай бұрын
Now if they could change the wood they would be perfect.
@AzureSymbiote Жыл бұрын
Thank you. This helps.
@ladynsearch2 жыл бұрын
Have you done a review just on the Coloursoft?
@ColourwithClaire2 жыл бұрын
No I haven't x
@taurus8263 Жыл бұрын
I recently purchased them after reading positive reviews. Generally I like them. Colours are beautiful and pencils themselves are very soft, wchich I like. However the quality of wood is soooo dissapointing, horrible tbh. Couple of them already broke and I am sharpening them really gently. I will use them and probably enjoy for as long as they last, but because the quality of barrels is so bad, I will not be re-purchasing them. If I knew the quality of barrel is so bad, I wouldn't buy them in the first place.
@patriciaschoenberg12617 ай бұрын
Great review and comparison. Thank you. I hope the new Chromaflow will be available in a set.
@eevee60052 жыл бұрын
You say that the coloursoft is more expensive than the chromaflow, but there is nowhere I could find chromaflow at a lower price point than coloursoft. Is it he other way around in other countries? For a pencil that is built cheaper with the consequence of frequent lead breaks, the price is rather prohibitive.
@ColourwithClaire2 жыл бұрын
Pretty sure it's because they're a brand new release. I'm hoping it will level out once they have been out a little while xx
@claritzairosario682 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much for your review! very interesting! but, after seeing all the reviews, of these pencils... I have decided not to buy or try the chromaflow, because first, they are non-professional pencils, and they are expensive! Why??? besides, they are not lightfast, this is a con of these colored pencils. I have 5 color soft pencils, but, I don't like them because they are very waxy, they have beautiful colors, and they have a little more lightfast than the Chromaflow ones, but I don't like them. I love Derwent Drawing colored pencils, wow! they are incredible! and they are lightfast, I love that!
@ColourwithClaire2 жыл бұрын
I really want to try the Derwent Drawing pencils, I’ve heard all good things xx
@claritzairosario682 жыл бұрын
@@ColourwithClaire ohh you must try them, they are amazing pencils 🥰
@AGRUPACIONFENIX Жыл бұрын
Bueno si tienen resistencia a la luz , no todo el conjunto pero la gran mayoria lo es. Solo los Luminance y los Derwent Lightfast son totalmente resistentes a la Luz.
@sorry-I-write-long-comments2 жыл бұрын
Hey, I know this has nothing to do with your video, but I just saw that you have a video where you reviewed Arteza 120 set. So was wondering how you organized your Arteza colored pencils.... I want my grays to be organized by cool and warm tones, but I have problem seeing which is cool and which is warm😮💨 so was wondering if you could help me since you have that big set😊 Or someone else in the comment section🙈
@rozy49342 жыл бұрын
i love your editing skills and tattoos!
@ColourwithClaire2 жыл бұрын
Aw thank you!
@QueenofFlannelColors2 жыл бұрын
These have become my go-to pencil. Prismas are too soft for me, and while I do love my polys, they are sometimes a bit too hard for extended use. I found these to be right in the middle. Thanks for the review!
@JuneColors2 жыл бұрын
Lovely video 😍
@Colorfullife20462 жыл бұрын
amazing thank you
@KeniDiane2 жыл бұрын
Hi Claire, I didn’t care for the 24 set that came out last year, before I even opened them they smelled exactly like a chemical factory and they never lost that smell, my friend had the same problem with them. I have heard good things about this new, larger set so I am very happy to hear what you thought about them! Thank you for your excellent review Claire, as always.
@Bloomkyaaa2 жыл бұрын
Chromaflow = Polychromos Coloursoft = Prismacolor
@chantalmassin17562 жыл бұрын
A silly question are water soluble?
@ColourwithClaire2 жыл бұрын
They are not
@chantalmassin17562 жыл бұрын
Ill do more research on it. My pencils are ok but quite what I thought would be for the price I paid. Thanks though
@rosered82346 ай бұрын
Any breakages just put pencils in the MICROWAVE … 10 seconds Will never break again ! 😊
@learnartwithme37662 жыл бұрын
The price point for the chromaflow is at the professional level really, originally £1.80 pp (now at 1.50 depending where you get them) and the larger tins. For that price, I still think the choice of pine was a mistake as was the thickness of the pencils. Currently on Amazon, 36 tin is £49.99 compared to Polychromos' £54.55. I'd especially say given the number of lightfast 7/8 ratings, they are aimed at pro's too.