Combined brakes system demonstration (Dual CBS)

[@frankmcdermott9679]

Thanks for the easy to understand explanation

[@michaelovitch]

: )

[@brunomacron8021]

je comprends mieux maintenant, merci..j'ai une vfr 800 2001 et avant des varadero et pan 1100..j'aime beaucoup ce système CBS..beau boulot sur la vfr..

[@michaelovitch]

Merci. Ce sont des bonnes motos (varaddero,pan,vfr) : )

[@zx8401ztv]

Ooow that's an interesting system :-D Do the brake pads and disks have to be in identical condition for the best effect?. i was thinking ( yep me thinking :-D ) one of the calipers could be less efficent and both wheels would not be equal in braking. I have never seen that system before, so i could be talking crap lol.

[@michaelovitch]

Yes ,because of the tilting caliper, one of the front brakes is less efficient the short time the tilting caliper complete its full travel. In theory,it could create some fork torsion,but not more than whatever motorcycle with only one front brake disc. Yes,the rear brake will be actuated with some delay after the front was manually actuated,because of the tilting travel time. It's like a usual system,even if brake pads wear out,the piston on the caliper will protrude more to compensate for the wear. The auxiliary master cylinder slides on the front caliper tilting bracket like would slide a caliper on a a caliper bracket. all is sliding,so all center itself,with or without worn pads. The only problem that could reduce the effect of the tilting master cylinder would be to have some air between it and the rear caliper. It's the only portion on the whole braking system wich is isolated,not in contact with a brake fluid reservoir. So if you loose fluid in this portion,you loose effective stroke on the tilting caliper,and you loose braking power. We had difficulties to understand that it's isolated,so purging was not easy to understand either. But you just pump the rear brake to feed the rear of the tilting master cylinder. It's now seating fully expanded,so full of fluid to push Then you compress it to seat it ,so it will push its fluid out,and feed the rear caliper. Repeat until it's pushing only fluid at the rear caliper bleeder. If you think you could sound talking crap,i let you imagine what we sounded like when we realised we had 9 brake lines to change and bleed on an unknown system lol It was a bit tense lol : )

[@ccooper8785]

Having never ridden a bike with linked brakes; what is it like when if brake during slow manoeuvring? The last thing I want is the front brake being on while doing a u turn when all I want is to lightly drag the rear.

[@michaelovitch]

It's a pretty well balanced braking,and you still can use independently both brakes without feeling both both being used. it seems to me that it's perceptible more on higher pressure brakings use,no so much on light brakings.

[@khalednaji8426]

العمل الجيد و المتابعة من سلامة المركبات و أمان القيادة

[@michaelovitch]

: )

[@E_E_J_]

Hi, I have a question. I completely cleaned the brake system on my X11 and installed new brake pads. Everything assembled, everything properly pumped. The bike brakes really well. What I've noticed is the wheels don't spin as freely. Is that normal? The motorcycle moves heavily when stationary. And after riding, the rear brake caliper is warm, but you can touch it with your hands, everything is cold in front. Where is my mistake? Thanks!

[@michaelovitch]

Hi, No necessarily a mistake. Are the pistons clean on the rear caliper ? Did you bleed the system properly on the rear ? Are the pads sliding freely in the caliper ? There is a bleeder on the rear caliper,and on the rear end,on the pressure regulator ,above the rear arm pivot point,you need to remove a steel panel. Brakes always have some drag,new pads are not matched to already worn discs. The bike on the video have drag too ,more on the front,we thought the too stiff aftermarket caused a lack of caliper movement but it's not that. You need to be sure pistons are clean,so they can retract properly,and no air is present in the system,otherwise they pistons can't retract properly too. Air is elastic,so it will expand in the hoses and pistons will be lazy at retracting excessive drag will occur.

[@E_E_J_]

Thank you for your quick response. Yes, I cleaned everything completely and lubricated the inside, I also installed new rubbers. I had moved the pistons with one finger. Then it just has to be air or dirt in the pump that prevents the brake fluid from flowing back. Then I have to pump again. This valve, what you mean, on the frame in the middle, has no valve on the X11. I saw your video too. Another question, if I pump this brake cylinder at the front of the wheel, should the brake fluid run out from the rear caliper? Should that work like the brake pedal?

[@E_E_J_]

Oh, now I have, this valve on the frame has a cap with two screws, should I remove the cap?

[@michaelovitch]

@@E_E_J_ Be sure it's the hydraulic brake system,follow the lines. If you have CBS ,you should have a pressure regulator,wich limits brake pressure on the rear. This hydraulic block has a bleed screw on it,and banjo bolts. You need to bleed air from the bleed screw,by pushing the mobile caliper on the front wheel.(push caliper ,keep pushed,open bleeder,close bleeder ,release caliper.,repeat until clean fluid and no air escape. This front tilting caliper is a lever wich create pressure to actuate the rear caliper. You have to bleed normal brakes,like a normal ike,and then bleed the combined brakes circuit ,from the dedicated bleed screws,including the pressure regulator block.

[@gregsochor]

They first had an early sort of CBS on the old Goldwing GL1200, but they dedicated a whole caliper on the front to work in tandem with the rear brake. It works well, but I personally dislike it. Guzzis also have done it like that for ages. (It's rather easy to convert to "normal" brakes on both, even though you need a welded up brake-line fitting for the old Goldwing...)

[@michaelovitch]

Ok,i didn't know about goldwings or guzzis. Here we thought about converting it to just two brakes lines. If i'm right we would have needed to drill the separation between the two circuits in the calipers themselves,and go straight from the master cylinder to the caliper. But the tilting caliper on the front would have been a problem,we would need it to stop tilting,so we stopped thinking about that just there lol We found the brake lines online. They make a bunch of brake lines,custom,or lego like, that you can adapt to about every situation. What is the weird welded brake line on the goldwing ?

[@gregsochor]

@@michaelovitch The footbrake master cylinder has got a second outlet, which goes to the front right brake caliper. And the handpump only goes to the left brake caliper. So if you want to convert it, you have to plug the extra hole on the footbrake and then get a different handbrake-master cylinder (bigger bore) from e.g. a CB750 or CB900F and invest in some new brake lines.

[@michaelovitch]

@@gregsochor Ok,thanks. Nothing too crazy to do so.

[@dafu788]

星期一得到了800 以为dcbs 不好用 🙏谢谢您解答了我的疑问 Thankyou

[@michaelovitch]

: )

[@grobillou]

Salut merci pour ces explications et schémas. techniquement j'ai appris un truc que ne je n aurais pas soupçonné. perso je répare et utilise des dirt bike et cross ça me parait aberrant d'utiliser cette conception de freinage, on veut un contrôle précis des roues pour déraper de l’arrière ou ne jamais bloquer l'avant. Bien sur ce système est fait pour la route sur moto puissante. j'imagine que ça réduit les distances de freinage et réduit le risque de blocage des roues, avant comme arrière ?? a la conception les types sont très intelligents et inspirés, c'est impressionnant ,)

[@michaelovitch]

Salut et merci, Oui ça réduit les distances de freinage si on ne sait pas bien équilibrer soi même son freinage,si non ça n'améliore rien. Le dual cbs arrive juste avant l'ABS sur les motos,ça permet de limiter la perte d'adhérence ,en particulier sur le mouillé,en urgence. ça ne réduit pas le risque de blocage des roues,la puissance de freinage est la même,seule l'équilibre entre l'avant et l'arrière est contrôlé. J'ai pu bloquer les roues en testant,il suffit d'appuyer trop fort par rapport à l'état de surface de la route et sa capacité à laisser le pneu adhérer. l'ABS lui, interrompt le freinage pour éviter la perte d'adhérence,sur chaque roue. Je ne sais pas si l'avant et l'arrière sont couplés avec l'ABS cependant,ça dépend du constructeur. ça fait aussi 9 durites à changer ici... : )

[@RENARD920604]

Merci pour la vidéo je voudrai savoir comment faire pour exécuter la purge de se système merci bonne journée

[@michaelovitch]

Bonjour, Il y a deux purgeurs par étrier : un pour le circuit "normal" et un pour le circuit combiné. Il faut purger le circuit "normal" avec les purges associées sur les étriers. Ensuite il faut actionner l'étrier avant mobile à la main et purger le circuit secondaire. Il y a une purge sous la selle,pour l'arrière. C'est pas très simple à expliquer de mémoire. Je peux fournir le manuel d'atelier,j'ai une adresse mail sur ma chaine youtube,dans l'onglet "à propos"

[@ArthVader09]

can someone tell me what percentage is in the front and back when using cbs?

[@michaelovitch]

There is no information about that in the honda shop manual. It is only indicated that you can only lock the rear wheel with the rear brake lever,and only lock the front wheel with the front brake lever.(so not via the linked brake system) There is a proportionnal valve,as you know,and a delay valve on the front along the fork. No percentage of braking force is indicated. I think it's purely proportionnal to your speed and braking force but not to the point to locking wheels.(it doesn't help you to know that but it's not a electronic valve being able of force correction lie a ABS system, but only a mechanical/hydraulic,so it wil depend of its good shape,fluid properties,temperature,bike's speed ,brake lever applied force, and such parameters. There is certainly a tuned set up from factory ,but i don't know it.)

[@harryw9598]

merci , 2002 model

[@MyJam1981]

thanks

[@michaelovitch]

: )

[@ahmedhaider7245]

عمل جيد 👍

[@michaelovitch]

Merci : )