Combo players when Apollousa gets banned

Talking about game design, balance, and the path which Konami has chosen for Yugioh--which must profit in order to grow, but cannot grow forever. Mostly in relation to the September 2024 Forbidden & Limited list.
(Don't worry, I did not actually sell all of my furniture for a Fiendsmith engine. It was for Dragon Master Magia.)
I do vlogs, comedy, Nintendo stuff, and apparently card games now. Subscribe for more adventures, and hit the like button because it's free and keeps me from crying at night.

[@peepoo9165]

Nibiru is slowly occupying the same annoying "either your deck gets FTKd by your opponent drawing it or you literally dont care about it" space that Shifter and Droll call home

[@Alex-jw7zg]

I think thats only true for combo decks, but even then, you can still play a combo deck that sets up layered interaction befor the 5th summon (like white forest) or a deck that dosent need 5 summons. As an extreme, at locals last weak i watcht a six samurai player combo for 15 minutes and set up like 4 negates, i think nibiru is appropriate against decks like that.

[@frissoramon2742]

That was literally ALWAYS the case. Nibiru is a card made to shit on rogue decks, and make meta even more prevalent. It was made by tcg, and tcg only cares about money. Droll and shifter were also made by the tcg. And the ocg needs to keep fixing tcg mistakes. After shifter and droll, ocg created Called by, and after Nibiru, the ocg had to start implementing ways to negate it on every new deck they make. Spright has gigantic, tearlament has rukalos, unchained got a level 6, which can be used for Caesar... and most decks had access to baronne and apollousa to counter it. Did it really took you guys this long to notice that a field wipe from hand, that tributes instead of destroying, has no cost, and even give you a beatstick, might not be balanced?

[@fantacer]

Wahhh wahh

[@chuggajr]

@@frissoramon2742Yeah, no broken or unfun cards have ever been printed initially by the OCG. Definitely all of those design decisions were made only around Nibiru and not to push new products like you accuse the TCG of.

[@MarkThePage]

It's not just combo decks though. One of the reasons why Primal's so much stronger these days is because even trap-heavy control decks often summon 5 times now.

[@BearBear0498]

I feel like its inherently bad game design for those cards to exist anyway. They all deserved to be banned years ago.

[@geek593]

Inherently bad design is allowing starters to search an entire engine that spams a wincon out on turn 1. Generic design is perfectly fine as long as main deck engines are limited in scope. But that balance got snapped so long ago people don't even remember a time when a normal summon didn't go +10.

[@BearBear0498]

@geek593 no because extra deck monsters should not have negate. Period. Period. Period. Period. Period. No questions asked. Monsters in general really shouldnt have negates unless they are hard as fuck to make.

[@geek593]

@@BearBear0498 Saying period doesn't establish your argument. Negates should only appear on extra deck monsters and traps. Traps because that's where the keyword is from and where it was properly balanced, and generic bosses because forcing them to be archetypal means only certain archetypes have access. Early synchros were great because any deck that could make synchros had a toolbox to work with and the first flagship synchro was a balanced negate. I agree they should be hard to make and decks with very strong in-archetype swarm abilities should lock out to avoid overlap with specific generics. Virtual World would be just like Snake-Eyes able to make literally anything if it didn't have such a strict lock that made links completely inaccessible.

[@Dr.AvenVon]

@@geek593 negates should be a rarity on achetype specific boss monsters. not a common effect on generic monsters

[@BearBear0498]

@geek593 yeah im pretty much agreeing with you here. But the extra deck monsters that have negates should not be generic they should be locked into specific archetypes. Generic monsterd with negates attached are a cancer for the game. Actually a lot generic extra deck monsters in general like the nightmares and i;p and S;P really shouldnt exist either

[@evanarmstrong6717]

My issue with powercreep is that it’s not evenly distributed amongst new decks. Powercreep would be far more tolerable if a few decks would come out around the same time that could all compete with eachother at similar power levels. Instead it feels like all the new shiny power cards are funneled into one of the newer strategies.

[@PyccoloSantos]

we dont buy more yugioh cards here in my city, we print it, and make our own ban-list, every player gives 20 bucks, last tournament, 1st place got 200, 2nd 100, 3rd a playmate.

[@sun332s7]

I can only imagine how terrible that ban list is. I’ve never seen a good community ban list.

[@TheBlob.]

​@@sun332s7if the comunity that banlist belongs to likes it, then it's a good banlist

[@jmart1526]

​@@sun332s7Im off to a fun deck tournament we do at my locals. We also have our own banlist for it, but that doesnt really matter since everyone seems to be in agreement that you dont play that to win. We have really innovative decks there, last time we had Labyrinth without any of the cards in an actual lab deck, a water pile that can make a princess line work, vampires, and many more. Its the most fun Ive ever had in yugioh

[@ericsoloconc]

​@@sun332s7hey, at least they're having fun and if there's a problem, the ban list can be modified anytime.

[@PyccoloSantos]

@@sun332s7 Bro, we just use rough decks, we just ban meta deck, and powerful stamples and its working, froms 2 or 3 playimg saturday, to almost 22, We manage to keep playing good yugioh, each of us have almost 3 decks ready to play, our fav archetypes. If doesnt work for you, sad, but we manage make work, talking.

[@Solid_Sayori]

I think YGO players should reject this late-stage gacha monetization wholesale, and boycott the game. That doesn't mean refusing to play the game, but that does mean refusing to buy official Konami product or cards from the trading market. The reason why I include a boycott of the trading market is because there are whales who will buy card packs in bulk from Konami so that they can resell the expensive cards and make a profit. In order to properly take a stand against Konami, buying cards in bulk should be disinsentivised by the community at large by refusing to participate in the card trading market, at least until Konami fixes their game and strays from their predatory monetization. I know that this isn't an easy thing to do. But it can be done. Play with the cards you have at your local communities, play unofficial simulators that grant access to all cards, or maybe try other games with your friends. The most important thing to remember when you are in a hobby is that the hobby isn't food. You can always step away from it or find alternatives when large corporations threaten to ruin it. I would say the same thing about Warhammer players, Dungeons and Dragons players, and other hobby communities in the same situation. The free market doesn't work to curb anti-consumer business practices unless the consumer has a backbone.

[@MarkThePage]

A more feasible alternative I like is encouraging people to play cheaper decks. Like, a Crystal Beast deck could be 10% the price of a Fiendsmith deck, but that doesn't mean the Fiendsmith deck would be winning 10x as many tournaments for me. Chasing after the top deck of the month is practically never a worthy investment, and it sure as heck isn't more fun.

[@jemandoondame2581]

The last time I bought official product was when the Traptrix structure Deck came out. I've been telling people to boycott this game the whole time (while playing also). But playing decks that are really cheap usually means playing decks that are also unsatisfying, due to losing often (I live in a very competitve environment). I also started boycotting tournaments. But before I started doing that, I brought Goat and Edison decks to advanced tournaments and ask people if they wanna play that instead. I also always gave them the win directly.

[@uriel6873]

It can be easy if people actually stick to it with incentive. If people see a mass group of people protesting then THATS when they want to join. Otherwise, they don’t even bother because people don’t know or are too scared to start

[@SpainLord]

i was expecting a skit with that thumbnail and title, got a nice short analysis of the modern game instead

[@ProjecEnvoy]

Ignoring the issue on the generic boss hits also ignores they were standard in Tear boards, and halq format. The issue isn't just SE or product it's overall card design. Luckily that is slowly shifting from genetic to identity

[@MarkThePage]

My counter argument is that the Tear stuff and Halq stuff had to be hit regardless. The cards which most exploited these generic bosses were cards which shouldn't have existed regardless of whether the generic bosses were legal.

[@geek593]

Tear was great at swarming bodies and Halq was the enabler that went plus for free. Snake-Eyes, especially the E-Tele, is a build your own Halq that spams even more effectively than Adventurer Pile. Overtuned engines are a problem and instead of asking Konami why they keep printing unlimited searchable E-Teles and RotAs that are essentially E-Teles due to their target you're taking the dumb way out and saying the end board needs to be banned. A lot of steps happen before the end board is presented.

[@MarkThePage]

I'm personally still reeling from Emergency Teleport being limited for soooo long, only for Konami to start printing several monsters designed to be summoned by it and then unlimiting it. Cards getting removed from the list when they get stronger... And put on the list only after getting powercrept. It's all backwards.

[@aldinlewis5579]

Non-meta decks getting hit incidentally is pretty common for yugioh banlists but I have definitely felt that losing baronne, savage and appo has been incredibly devastating for rogue decks in a way that hasn’t happened before. It feels to me like were gonna not see too many interesting things happening outside of the top 10ish decks for a while.

[@MarkThePage]

Oh, as a silly combo player I am well used to being a casualty of hits to other decks. :'( ULTRA ATHLETES DID NOTHING WRONG.

[@TheManiacc45]

Worst part of yugioh is you can’t even really play what you want. They force you to play the best decks or get stomped out. If you play something rouge or a deck you enjoy playing, it’s like playing chess but your opponent has 4 or 5 queens

[@KyHeartWill]

Apollosa ban is pendulum nerf. Change my mind 😂

[@skream2018]

Well hight king lol as a pendulum player ban of apo have change nothing.

[@SorryIBlackedOut]

At most now, I’m using Endymion with Exceed special summoning whatever Endymion sends to hand and IP to link with Exceed into Selene for another special summon negate and more spell counters on my opponent’s turn. Used to just link in Appo but guess not anymore lmao. But then again, I don’t really play this game seriously anymore. Moved on to other tcgs for my locals participation.

[@omegabladers4915]

As a Supreme King archetype player apollusa isn't a problem for me since I hated apollousa. I see this ban as a win

[@jaredhamilton425]

I don’t need her for my pendulum deck. Never have and it’s worked fine without such an overrated card for losers.

[@skream2018]

@@omegabladers4915 hell I have play apo that a good negate card so it´s ban , I can´t play it now. That just a change in the deck :). My last build is with melodius engine and I test if I had fs engine and the link rabbit for shifter plan ( rabbit + ip)

[@ExaltedArchvile]

Considering that this is the same company who's only ever given care to their other game properties like Castlevania in the form of ACTUAL SLOT MACHINES, I'm not surprised they only care about money above all else. And furthermore I'm glad people are waking up and seeing the bigger picture with Konami's strategy: Release a bunch of shiny powercrept paper, ban everything else aside from the main problem to pigeonhole comp. players into buying said shiny paper, then once that set has run its course, finally ban the main problem and appear like a hero to everyone else, repeat.

[@angeldroid3608]

Me, a monarch player when konami bans extra deck monsters: "Oh no, Anyways I activate erupt and domain"

[@EijiHero-h3b]

Tbh I like how they got rid of the generic Ed bosses, now hopefully we're gonna get good archetype bosses

[@skyzip4k171]

while i do think that these generic cards like apo have been getting a bit too strong inside newer engines, this is exactly what i thought might happen basically i predict this: Konami will ban all the generic stuff new and strong meta decks release with their own outs to Nib and all that, and will have their own broken bossmonsters next konami will hit these bossmonsters, invalidating those decks. then they release a new deck with a new and broken archetypal bossmonster and then rinse and repeat.

[@Jaganphotos]

2:50 - as someone who tries to play competitively you hit the nail on the head. It’s the reason I’m taking a break from the game and trying One Piece. Attended my second event today and topped. Had more fun than I’ve had playing at a YGO event in a long time.

[@larv23]

I understand banning these generic cards, decks are becoming more and more self-reliant and can leverage them much more than the Rouge strats that are propped by them. I do believe cards like this are bad design. What Konami (and other TCGs sometimes) are *not* doing though is following up with good support for the decks that got their legs chopped off with these removals. Bans like this don't bring the Power Level of a format down, they bring the Power Ceiling and Power Floor down at the same time.

[@PsychoKern]

Me a Speedroid playing laughing and waiting for new Speedroid support to come to TCG so I can make a lvl 12 omni negate on 4th or 5th summon which if it leaves the field by the opponent's card floats into another form of negate :D

[@brandonnavas4014]

I follow a bit of yugioh content from the bigger channels and hear all about how removing these generatic extra deck monsters and flood gates is such a good thing and that's a thing Konami is doing right. I was even on board. But you're right, unless older decks get specific support for them that can help me navigate cards that hurt the meta, they get tossed out. It's because of you I'm now kinda sad they have all been banned/limited. This game doesn't rotate and sometimes Konami makes new support for old decks and that's a big lure for old and new players alike! "I have old cards they might be useful!" "I could buy cards and not have to worry they'll be irrelevant in 3 months! Or maybe become relavant again in a couple years" Here's hoping they do that more to help all decks feel powerful so they make money and were all happy!

[@crusaderpenguin5326]

Honestly, I still think the generic extra deck monsters being gone is a good thing. They limited Konami's ability to make new generics because of how powerful they were, and made every duel feel the same (imagine if every anime episode featured the same boss monster from the opponent lmao). That being said, I completely agree with your support point. I'm hoping that Apo/Baronne being banned will lead to Konami giving decks some archtype-specific love going forward.

[@MarkThePage]

Yeah, there was a lot of excitement over Baronne's ban. But soon it became clear that weaker/less-consistent decks actually need generic bosses more than new, top-tier decks. 2024's good changes (hitting floodgates and turn skips) are overshadowed by widening the gap between new and existing decks. Existing decks wouldn't have to be pushed out of relevance so quickly if Konami wasn't releasing dozens of new themes per year. We don't have time to play with half of them before they're gone.

[@enricofischer1330]

​@@MarkThePage the most annoying part is if you play 2-3 bricks just to play around nibiru and you get Ash to in turn get nibiru anyways.

[@vvv_vimeru668]

Lets be honest, generic negate boss didn't make lower tier decks good, it made then a machind capable of making a simular but ever worse board than meta decks. Even with those tools bad decks never had a chance of competing, ghese cards msde them good, but made good decks BETTER. The distancd between than only grew, its a good thing badly design and easy to abuse cards get hit, even if they take playability from bad decks with the, but i must say if your deck can only compete with such cards its either 1: you don't understand deck building. 2: you forgkt some cards ARE made to be bad and forgotten. Its more of a "you wished to pick that bad deck but aren't understanding why its bad in the first place. And i say bad decks and not rogue, since rogue decks nowadays have clear gameplan, resource loops, and they can seek other engines to put in placs of those generic negates

[@geek593]

People were calling me an asshole for saying this would be the case when people were chanting for Baronne's head back in February. Get rid of the generics and suddenly only the prescribed powerful pushed decks have a chance of playing. UNLESS there's an unfun floodgate that particular deck can shit out which is far worse gameplay than Baronne or Apo ever were. But only one deck can run them? Only one deck was seeing success with Baronne, Linkuriboh, Apo, and especially Savage when they got banned. It just happened to be the only deck in the room.

[@nashcifer5666]

There are so many decks in the game with cool and interesting strategies but with bad boss monsters, Or their power is so overly balanced compared to other decks in a given format. I play Vaalmonica and that deck is the best designed Pendulum decks in the game that doesn't feel unfair to play against. However i doesn't matter how well designed a deck is if it can't compete with the current meta, and most is not all of these types of decks were reliant on these powerful generic tools to stand a chance. It just feels like "My" deck has no place within this format, but than i ask myself "Where are we supposed to play these fun but underpowered strategies if they cannot be used in this format?" Also, there are soo many filler cards that lack a use case within the context of the current game.

[@AndresGarcia-hv4ix]

I think You are missing something, isnt always about the meta and more about the fun You have playing, i play earthbound servants and i like summoning their boss monster Even if they arent that good, i have so Much fun playing with friends trying to get rid of My monster withnout being burned to death in the procces

[@lucasdesousaneves4667]

Hey, I'm looking forward to seeing the change in the Crystal Beast deck, I bought one recently after watching your videos, and I put together a similar version, but with only branded cards and some tri-brigade for now, due to my budget, but I saw great potential in Crystal Beast, and it brought me back to playing Yugioh after a few years, thank you very much!!

[@MarkThePage]

Losing Apollousa REALLY hurts Tri-Brigade strategies. S:P can substitute to an extent, but it's so dang expensive.

[@xXNeoNashXx]

​@@MarkThePagereally hurts fire brigade. Its like what can you even end on now lol

[@peepoo9165]

@@xXNeoNashXx What I've been trying in my Fire Brigade list is trying to make Sillhouhat Rabbit before 5 summons. That way I at the very least search the trap from deck before they can nibiru me then if they don't have Nib I can usually get to I:P or Double Dragon Lords with the spare bodies. Even if they nib, you can still get Angel Statue + revolt + sanctuary + garunix in grave + kirin in hand. It's a damn shame Rabbit is so expensive though

[@MarkThePage]

I did notice while editing this video that the Rabbit has suddenly exploded in price...

[@xXNeoNashXx]

@@peepoo9165 yep. Its really ridiculous how much it is now. I was lucky to pick it up cheap snd wish i got some more to sell off. But also i dont think anyone in their right mind now will spend $40 on it now

[@noratempest7115]

I like the generic cards getting banned assuming they change their design philosophy to reflect that, which they aren't sadly.

[@heya-x7n]

It's really weird they thought not including locks on new decks is a good idea when the power level of decks are in all time high

[@MarkThePage]

Yeah, as it stands, to me this just feels random. Hitting the decks that use Baronne or Apollo, but not the ones which use Number 90, Regulus, etc. Like with Heavy Storm's banning or the jump to MR4, this kind of change isn't fair until everyone has a viable alternative.

[@geometrydashtzolkin1025]

@@MarkThePage yes the small difference is how many decks can use those cards, regulus is far less generic and requires more bricks/more ed space to run so there is a difference not every card that says negate is equally good or abusable. Also, why should every deck have good alternatives, the goal of this game isn't to make every deck ever made viable or equally strong.

[@bl00by_]

They aren't because the OCG pulls the strings. Aslong as Apo, Baronne, Savage, etc are legal there nothing will change. Which makes you question why the TCG and OCG have different formats in the first place, when every card is only designed with the OCG list in mind.

[@jkteddy77]

​@bl00by_ TCG exclusives have it in mind slowly. I am preferring the way TCG is heading to OCG tbh. Necroquip and Aerial Eater beng made to "fix" and undo Lacrima is the clearest sign TCG has ways to shape their own format still

[@GinFaced]

Love this video tbh. Pure facts are being spat. My problem with Konami is that they keep printing these cards with 3 effects that do way too much and can be splashed into any deck as an engine and have 0 downside to playing them whether it’s cohesive with your deck or not. And my other problem is that these banlists will only save us for a couple of months. What happens when ROTA comes out? Then snake-eye gets azamina cards and is back to being full power with in-archetype omni negates AND since it got consistency hits on the banlist instead of getting rid of the problem cards (flamberge), it can now comfortably house the new azamina cards while still playing 15-18 hand traps and keeping the deck between 40-45 cards. Fun stuff 👍🏼

[@MarkThePage]

After the design restrictions of the previous few eras, I am endlessly bewildered by the lack of restrictions on nearly ALL new cards. A very clear switch was flipped when Master Rule 4 was repealed. Everything gets to summon everything now. Mix and match any resource engine with any boss, floodgates included.

[@That_Daily_noko]

I will play nightmare throne in every deck now for that sweet sweet free monster negate(the yubel fusion)

[@Vampireinarm1]

Generics need to be weaker and omni negates need to be really hard to summon

[@zeo4481]

0:42 THIS screenshot hurts my soul. BRING BACK KIT NOW KOMONEY!

[@zPapoy]

I think, Konami legit have people who think right and make a good ban list, game balancing overall. But they always get denied and put down by the all mighty sales team.

[@kneesnap1041]

most likely the people who design the products and make these decisions are directly incentivized to make short-term profits

[@geek593]

The team feels emboldened to "listen to community feedback" when the community is rallying to ban out cheap cards and decks.

[@kneesnap1041]

@@geek593 the community sentiment right now is to ban snake eyes, not cheap decks lol

[@geek593]

@@kneesnap1041 Banning generics instead of Snake-Eyes is banning cheap decks.

[@kneesnap1041]

@@geek593 who was asking for that though? I can't think of anyone calling for generic staples to be banned but NOT snake eyes

[@GiafyViews]

I swear I've seen this guy in a Dreamworks movie

[@DanteCrowlley]

I didn't have a chance to craft her yet, has been quite a time I don't play MD since I'm awaiting for some ban list on the meta, I'll still be playing rogue or low tier, but at least I would have a chance to play

[@aokijiiceage9589]

Here’s a crazy idea give decks there own why to deal with cards like nib the 3 of the 4 horseman of the generic extra deck are ban look what they did to six samurai new boss monster that deals with nib

[@JoseRojas-fl4jf]

Also they love hitting t2 and rogue deck when they are no longer a problem and are meta contestant

[@MarkThePage]

Yeah, that's been another trend. Many of the top decks over the past few years have only been hit significantly AFTER they already got powercrept by the next new release.

[@tonyroth1111]

I heard somewhere that the saga of blue eyes white dragon structure deck was the best selling Yu-Gi-Oh product of all time and I think Konami is trying to capitalize on that by making the new advent of the eyes of blue structure deck. This would allow people to buy and throw together a blue eyes deck that is actually somewhat decent super easily. They are trying to make this new structure deck their next best selling product

[@MarkThePage]

Let's hope the new structure deck gets imported, and without major changes... It's shameful that Konami has continued to stock the original for so long when it was a bad, incomplete deck even on release. I can't believe they haven't made a Dark Magician deck either.

[@jtm94]

You're dope man I thought you quit and was surprised to see this video recommended to me.

[@MarkThePage]

Still making Yugioh videos! I alternate making videos about other things too.

[@SLatios]

I really think the expectation that the ban list would change the meta in a drastic way so close to worlds was wishful thinking on everyone's part. That's not to say that they'll get them on the next one; it'll probably be consistency hits at best based on Konami's track record

[@MarkThePage]

To be fair, Konami did hype this list and imply that Snake-Eye and Fiendsmith would be taking more significant hits.

[@sanzyboy3952]

I mean to be fair at least when snake eyes gets destroyed in the next banlist at least there would be a less power crept meta unless Konami decides to add another broken deck into the game

[@AndresGarcia-hv4ix]

Azamina goes brrrrr

[@eddypasta8234]

Reptiles have easy access to regulus and the rank 8 negates, and can be played with evols (dolka + laggia +lars) or aleister (mechaba), or plant link negates through ragnaraikas. Very flexible, high durability deck that can also spam negates.

[@MarkThePage]

You're just trying to convince me to drop the Crystal Beasts.

[@SomeIdiotOnAMac]

apou getting banned is simply so sad because I love playing cb and loading up ruins. Its such a cool end board that didnt rely on receiving custom made tier 0 cards from konami but now it feels extremely underwhelming. For a deck like se, the antithesis of ygo, to be the poster child and still receive support to this day just does not sit right with me.

[@MarkThePage]

Apollousa did SO MUCH for Crystal Beasts. I've been trying to find a link monster that can replicate anything it did, but found nothing.

[@neyrhu]

gryphon kinda does it, works well with zealantis, and ruins !

[@MarkThePage]

Knightmare Gryphon is something I never got into... OKAY, I just looked up Knightmare Gryphon and learned that it does more than set Anti-Spell Fragrance!!! I look forward to trying it.

[@neyrhu]

@@MarkThePage also I'm looking at grass looks greener and it makes me want to try a 60 cards pile with CB.. It could work with gryphon to set up a floodgate, it could turbo out rainbow dragon..!

[@MarkThePage]

Or you mill your Rainbow Dragons and field spells...

[@Retrosparks]

1:28 yo that was smooth 😎

[@ReyMercuryFGC]

First time watching your content, i dont even watch much YGO content anymore, but you are really fun! Just wanted to tell you that whatever you are doing with the format and pacing of your videos, its working! This was fun to watch and interesting to hear!

[@MarkThePage]

Thanks so much! I made vlogs before I made Yugioh videos. It's been fun to mix the different styles of presentation, and blend different topics together too.

[@teamnarrowspades9726]

They banned all the big generic negates but now every new deck gets a solemn warning on legs. Ddd wave ceaser, seravius the ancient and ascended, the new jurrac Synchro that just got announced ect. I can see the new trend starting this time next year every deck will have a solemn on the end board

[@thekittenfreakify]

value retention should be the last thing to worry.

[@josepablo7777]

You’re so good at this. Keep up the content.

[@Jyxero]

I invited my brother to try back MD at release... He overcame all mechanics but pendulum at the tutorial (He's from Domino city saga... So the improvement is legit), yet on his 2nd duel, and goddamn rookie, got steamrolled by Herald turbo... (He choose pure Rokket of all things) So yeah... Relatable...; great video thou, straight to the point and clear as water

[@VOLTSmotion]

Very nice editing! The whole Nibiru segment flowed so well with the way you flipped out Primal at 1:32. Biggest complaint is maybe the parts where you have the camera filming your playmat. It needs some colour correction because right now the blacks feel gray and washed out Also a sidenote on us being in a tier 0 format. I think DUNE format was the best Yugioh in recent years with lowpower mid-range decks like rescue-ace and unchained being the "meta" picks

[@MarkThePage]

You're right! The fieldcam is a struggle. I'll try upping the saturation in future videos.

[@demfrodegroot7596]

I don't mind there being cards that counter nibiru, the problem I have was purely how dominant cards like Barrone and Apollousa were compared to even archetype specific boss monsters. I think Borreload is a bit of an exception there since, while yes, it has a lot of negates overall, it's still once per turn, and it requires being played in a deck that can comfortable run links and synchros, preferably links into synchros. Still, I do understand, and while I'm happy as hell that Baronne and Apollousa are banned, I can understand the banlist isn't doing what it's supposed to do, even if it's nice to see the powerlevel of everything across the board go down a bit.

[@geek593]

They're "dominant" because archetypal boss monsters usually suck. They're only ever around in actually good decks when those good decks can spam so many bodies that they can make their good boss monsters AND Apo/Baronne. This is why they saw play in Snake-Eyes.

[@demfrodegroot7596]

@@geek593 Won't deny you there, seems like Konami has this weird fixation on "The better the boss monster, the more generic it needs to be" heck, the good icejade boss monster can be played in any deck that runs water tuners. The only boss monster in recent memory that breaks that trend is the ice barrier boss monster.

[@FishBola1991]

Konami doesn’t hate you. It hates ALL their customers. Join me in mourning for Contra, Castlevania, Silent Hill, Metal Gear, and Suikoden.

[@ClarkieReidri]

I love your perspective with the game man, and again you’re right on the money here.

[@JustHereForTheDialogue]

Yeah this is wild to me. Banning appo means nothing to me as a Yubel player because I can just end on a different board no problem with similar power. It sucks to lose my best generic boss monster but it hurts others decks to lose far more than it hurts mine. Up the age of Yubel I guess :/. Personally I don’t see how this will be any less boring than the last two snake eyes formats. Will probably stick to MD for the next few months.

[@VB2P360]

My morphtronics ;-;

[@AceL.]

Swarm the field with random monsters to summon a FLOODGATE and keep summoning for another 10mins to make sure your opp can't play he game, good. Summon a tuner and a non tuner with the sum of their levels being 10 in order to have an omni, BAD.

[@gregorbonne9089]

Remember friends digimon will always welcome new players

[@Realblack_m0nster]

I have fun playing Yugioh through making custom cards and playing vs friends

[@jkteddy77]

TCG understanding the problem of breaking the "all roads lead to Baronne, Savage, and Apo" is only good for the creativity of the game. We're so close to a time where archetypes play with individuality again, Konami's just dropping the ball on mopping up.

[@CrimsonDragonEX1]

the design of generic boss monsters going forward is that they atleast should have broad requirements so they're not as broadly generic as in, type requirements, element requirements, etc

[@jkteddy77]

@CrimsonDragonEX1 it's how it had been, I think Since 2018 staple monsters got a little haywire. Archetypes are more fun when they get to be the powerful cards for once.

[@larv23]

But now this puts a multutiude of decks in a waiting room of support they may never get. Swordsoul leaned so hard on Barrone and the deck has not gotten a good Level 8 or 10 Synchro since 2022 with Evil Longyuan, for example. And now with Voiceless Voice, there's not a good gameplay reason from a competitive standpoint to play Swo unless you're broke (me) or enjoy the archtype itself (also me)

[@geek593]

Ah yes, the creativity of following the only path to whatever the prescribed by R&D end board is in the pushed current deck. I'm so glad my hypertuned piles of jank no longer have a third of their extra deck. Now I get to be creative with the bosses they're supposed to summon! If they even have one.

[@jkteddy77]

@geek593 combo is far from linear. See: Tearlaments, Lightsworn who are competitively viable. In-theme bosses that behave originally instead of Omni are what's healthy. They can be even more powerful than Omni's with acting as a zero sum game vs the opponents hand like yugioh's become.

[@teamnarrowspades9726]

2019 was a sweet spot for yugioh Colossus aside the game was diverse healthy and easy to keep up with but still complex enough to keep the game interesting. The decks were affordable more or less all around a good time to play

[@MarkThePage]

So many new themes were being printed at that time, but I saw hardly anyone touch anything but cookie cutter T/O/S/S. "Nothing else is good," people said without having tried anything else. I wonder if retro TOSS is more diverse now.

[@teamnarrowspades9726]

@@MarkThePage they had a bunch of decks passed the toss 4 stuff like block ba lunalight ect

[@ideo4293]

3:41 Top tier BURN hahaha

[@gatometropr]

everyone can run azamina tho, but that is part of the problem, watch them make them the highest rarity along with fuwaross

[@TheOriginalMomo]

Hey Mark, what’s your opinion on deck archetypes? Do you think they restrict or enable deck-building? Also, a bit random but do you think you’d consider trying other TCGs like Magic?

[@MarkThePage]

Themes are fantastic! They drastically lower the barrier to entry for building a new deck to play with or figuring out how the cards work. Giving players infinitely more choices can backfire when they feel too similar to contrast or the volume becomes overwhelming. I keep up with Magic occasionally. The only deck I ever felt compelled to actually build was white/blue Party from Zendikar Rising... which was immediately abandoned like most mechanics. I don't enjoy building MTG decks because there are way too many cards to choose from which do generally the same thing, so it takes a very long time until I feel like I'm making good and significant decisions about what to cut... only to lose because I drew the wrong number of lands anyway. I know that lots of people enjoy MTG. Between the restrictive gameplay and the gore, it's not for me.

[@TheOriginalMomo]

@@MarkThePage I agree on the easier entry for beginners but I feel like certain cards that could be amazing are isolated within that deck/theme. I loved Aleister and the invoked package, I had some combos involving Fuh-Rin-Ka-Zan and that to me is an example of good archetype-building; powerful, can be altered but has a clear combo. On the other hand, Raidraptors have some powerful cards but so many of them locking you into Dark or Winged Beast feels like it was designed to be limiting. I asked about Magic only because I’ve recently gotten into it, I’ve been enjoying it as much as Yu-Gi-Oh but the decks feel limited in no. of cards you can play because a certain % has to be lands. I thought you might have some interesting ideas on number of lands since you had somewhat controversial thoughts on Ygo card quantity. Regardless, you deserve my subscription and a lot more for that matter!

[@sonsai10]

Damn, this is a very interesting take

[@chizuru9389]

Also, all complains are just a manifestation of how we love the game, you know.

[@MarkThePage]

Only the real Yugioh lovers hate Yugioh. :P

[@cthree1676]

Incredible content, keep it up

[@Bllackmage]

Amazing video!! You adressed lot of things in 6 mins while other would need 30. I almost agree with everything, but i think there are decks stronger than snakeye that are underexplored. It just happens for snake eyes to thrive in heavy handtrap meta. For example if protos and sanctifiee get ban, people might start playing board breakers where snake eyes wont be able to do anything

[@PiantaBroker]

holy fuck, Kirin was banned for 7 years? I dunno, it felt longer. Pendulum era was so long ago

[@catcocaine9698]

Here for my aggressive card-tossing fix. Imagine if Bran Flakes got banned huh 😮

[@MarkThePage]

Who would try to ban healthy food!? I'm getting Michelle Obama in here.

[@catcocaine9698]

@@MarkThePage Make sure she tosses 'em cards aggressively or I riot 😀

[@kaiserstorm886]

3:46 that hurt my feelings I use Quickdraw dandy

[@kaiserstorm886]

3:46 that hurt my feelings I use tele-DAD

[@draconicmeta846]

1st off Snake-eyes didn't even really abuse negate cards like savage or Baron (app is a different case) but Konami had ban them due to Snake-Eyes being a new release product and needed to still address the elephant in the room which was Snake-Eyes. This was a welcomed change as combo decks didn't vomit out the same 3 monsters and call it a "personalized end board". Snake-Eyes by itself realistically isn't a problem, the annoying part of it is Snake-eyes' recovery compared to every other deck + the combination of negates (like app) just made it unfunny. Previous formats like Tear and Kash weren't fun because of how game-warping specific cards were. Also, Speed Duels (in my opinion) are one of if not the worst yugioh product. It doesn't help new players get into the game, it gets goat players mad *and* anyone who actually plays Speed Duels will tell you, you have to play competitively otherwise you cannot play the game. Edison in contrast can actually help (and has helped) new players enter the game while teaching them the actual rules, general prices, a healthy meta-game and overall an enjoyable experience. I also want to go back to how you said "Speed Duels are better than Edison" you mentioned how its mainly fun if you *do not* play competitively, but this argument can be made to any format in yugioh regardless of new sets and/or card releases so I don't think its a fair point to start with. As a (mostly) competitive player myself I can say that this video is just arguing "meta bad" without actually giving any in-depth analysis, which is fine if you want to stay as a casual fan as there's nothing wrong with enjoying the game how you see fit, but also giving arguments on (what feels like) you do not understand is a whole other thing. (I could be wrong about what I've said and to be clear I don't want to start any arguments but I'm just trying to see from every viewpoint and in this case it feels very one-sided).

[@MarkThePage]

Speed Duel "doesn't help new players get into the game" if by "the game" you mean specifically MR5 Advanced Format and nothing else. If the goal is to get someone playing Yugioh, enjoying the strategy and thrills of the game, then there is no better format than Speed Duel, plus it's cheaper and offers more diverse strategies. Not everything has to be a stepping-stone to Advanced tournament play. To give more context about me, I am actively competitive and play to win, and I do play Edison while also having been around for it back in the day. I play way too much Yugioh...

[@pamoon_]

Allowed me to think outside the box to make my dinos still playable Apollousa gone? I have a build that uses Mirrorjade lol

[@casketbase7750]

Meanwhile, Dragon Ruler fans: 🎉🥳🎉

[@Shadowrulzalways]

Konami just reprinted Retro Pack 2 which is for Goat Format players. Konami is trying to sanction Goat, Edison and Tengu Plant format.

[@MarkThePage]

Looking through Retro Packs 1 and 2, I'm not seeing any notable reprints except Painful Choice. It's a lot of stuff that's already been reprinted in recent years, especially in Speed Duel sets.

[@vla1ne]

I have a nepthys deck and a buster blader deck, and looking at how those decs "work" compared to competitive decks of their time, yeah, konami vlearly has some "favorites" when it comes to deck designing throughought the games life. Craziest thing to me, is that the format right before snale eyes took off, was actually really well balanced. Many decks were viable, skilled players were popping off in top 64 with over 15 different types of decks spread near evenly in power. Konami seems to be allergic to that kind of format though, and it's sad that they seem to have almost created that format more by accident than any actual effort on their part.

[@MarkThePage]

Is it really a balanced format if every deck boils down to some kind of turn skip combo? I don't care if all 5 of my opponents today played different cards if they all ended up doing the same thing.

[@vla1ne]

@@MarkThePage I didn't really have that issue for that format. apart from sanctifire, i never really got locked in that format (also why they hit BF instead of sanctifire will baffle me till the end of time..)

[@MarkThePage]

Branded Fusion definitely deserved a hit. But NOW of all times, and still without stopping the locks!? Yeah, Konami really knows how to do the right thing in the worst way possible.

[@raijuko]

Allow me to have a gripe, skull servants used to actually be really powerful. Before grass, and even after. But, as a skull main since before King even released, there has NEVER been a new skull card that isnt a monster. They have NEVER gotten a single spell or trap card for the deck. And the deck even then still had a lot of potential until last year. They have no negates, and anytime generic support is hit, skull servants are dead that format. It shouldnt just be a meme deck. They have given basically every deck ever aside iron chain, some sort of new support. But skull servants only get 1 monster per year if we get lucky, and 50% of the time the monster isnt even good for the deck.

[@MarkThePage]

Skull Servant is SUCH a silly and wacky deck that I've always wanted to try. Yeah, it's so stressful to need off-theme bosses. There must be plenty of hybrid decks you can build though, right? They did just get a generic miller.

[@vla1ne]

​@@MarkThePage skull player here, the generic miller is absolutely insane for the deck, but the problem is that every single in-archetype card for the deck is a monster. I know it sounds weird, as there _are_ cards with skull servant art on them that actually work with skull servants, but the lack of s/t/ed support is really, really noticeable when playing against decks that don't have that kind of issue. The deck is a 1hko deck down to the bones, but it is so vulnerable to nearly any monster negation that it struggles to keep up, when it should have one of the greatest grind game potentials of any deck by virtue of its own gimmick. In short, one or two decent spells or traps that help "skull servants" in particular would bring the deck forward by leaps and bounds, but we have yet to receive any.

[@busywtch]

great video but i do have to point out that the early section pointing to the lack of significant Tear/Ishizu hits is just wrong? Orange light was in fact a tearzu hit on the December 2022 ban list, but every other card listed here either never got hit in TCG or was only hit at different points. Snow was rebanned on the October 2022 list because she's Snow, the ishizu support hadn't come out yet. Spright Elf died on the February 2023 list, gamma put to one on the June 2023 list and namely wasn't the fault of Tearlament even remotely. i understand the point you're trying to make, but claiming that Konami didn't hit key engine pieces in time and instead opted for generic cards is only half right for the case of Tearlament. Instant Fusion, Terraforming, and Burial Goods are all still TCG legal, Goods is even still at 3 copies! and anyways great content, please keep up the good work!

[@pickyphysicsstudent201]

Great points all around but I do think banning generic extra deck negates/interruptions was for the best. Apollousa alone invalidates alot of other combo cards you can make because 4 Monster Negates is just better than most of what you can make in-archetype. So many combo decks would just swarm the field then link off for Apollousa, as a crutch because they don't have an actual endboard in mind. It was a very low skill card but was pretty powerful.

[@MarkThePage]

I think Apollousa takes a lot of skill! You have to be careful about what you negate, because the opponent could be baiting a quick effect or trying to get her ATK low enough to run over. When it's not feasible to give every combo deck a significant defense to end on, I think this card made for a healthy alternative. As it stands, I don't think it's healthy to have a card which can wreck so many non-control decks and for those non-control decks to have no counterplay to it. Apollousa may be bad, but I think the alternative is worse. Baronne's banning already showed us how the alternative can be worse.

[@Dragonmist19X]

Now is just the question of which hits first: thr late stage gacha fixes things to save face or the EOS

[@nick8402]

this is why we need rush duel. its yugioh if it were a well designed game

[@MarkThePage]

I've played Rush on Duel Links and again with actual competitive decks, and it was the most boring Yugioh I've ever played. It was five rounds of dropping a new board and trampling the opponent's, then sitting back as they do the same, until someone runs out of LP. It made me really wonder whether most people calling to import it have actually played it. Maybe there's a secret to enjoying it that I just didn't get.

[@judai6523]

Really good vid :)

[@DeepSolid43]

If speed duel for you is not fun at its highest level, then it's not fun as a whole. If a game has players, those will always tend to optimization eventually On the other hand Edison it's fun at its highest level, just as it fun by playing it through casual decks.

[@MarkThePage]

The fun that I have playing Speed Duel casually with friends is not negated by the existence of less fun environments elsewhere. Not to imply my decks aren't optimized either--it really is just the couple of stall and OTK decks perpetually plaguing competitive play... I have a wide array of fun Edison decks and they get walloped by my friend's high-tier decks. Crystal Beasts, Spell Counters, Fortune Ladies... none of that stuff can stand up to Brionac, Black Rose, and Absolute Zero, which invalidate what few excuses for resource engines exist in the card pool. It's frustrating. I expected to find easier success considering that I was around in those days.

[@DeepSolid43]

format got like 40+ viable decks and you managed to chose some of the worst, tragic on a serious note u just mentioned staples, no one is keeping u from summoning brio off cat in CB, just like no one is keeping you from summoning abzero if you run crystal seer in your spell counter deck

[@MarkThePage]

Those aren't my only Edison decks! Just making the point that my preferred style (combo control) doesn't really exist there. I don't think a worthwhile Hero engine is cramming its way into a Spell Counter deck... Mine already has far too many normal summons because there are so few resource-building spells available.

[@Fran_5]

At what point do we as a comunity just tell Konami to screw off and make our own banlists?

[@rucian_]

SURPRISE! Konami bans generic ed to sell new nib counter. Theia, the Primal Being Level 11 DARK Rock Effect Monster ATK/ 3000 DEF/ 600 During the Main Phase (Quick Effect): You can Tribute monsters whose total Levels equal 11 or more; Special Summon this card from your hand, then if you control no other monsters, you can destroy 1 monster on the field with the highest ATK (your choice, if tied). You can only use this effect of "Theia, the Primal Being" once per turn. Neither player can Normal and/or Special Summon more than 4 times per turn while this card is face-up in the Monster Zone.

[@MarkThePage]

hurrrrrrrrgggggghhhhahsegosgarggadf you're right this is specifically designed to be dropped in response to the opponent's. Gryphon Wing was ahead of its time.

[@kaiserstorm886]

3:46 that hurt my feelings I use trap prime dragon turbo

[@jerbpickle175]

I just got back into yugioh and I've been playing a fair amount of master duel but it not having edison or goat format as an option is plain stupid. I hate having to fight link decks and meta decks when I just want to play some good old syncos

[@flawless1237]

Thankyou! Ive been saying this and people think im crazy. I love swordsoul and baronne isnt overpowered in that deck, the problem is the new decks consistently abusing it so that the weaker decks who use her to play around nib (a card which should absolutely be banned, but no one seems to like that idea either) end up paying for snake eyes sins. and to rub salt in the wound for my favourite deck getting one low top per format what does konami print? an on field omni negate in fiendsmith, which dont get me wrong isnt as good as baronne but if the idea is to move away from cards like her why print new ones most decks cant use well ( while keeping there original identity) and now they hit fiendsmith which wont do too much, but whats comming in the next few weeks? a fucking omni negate in an engine that can search oss. If they want to stop the top tier decks having super generic good tools like baronne, dont print less generic tools that do the same thing and then more that only the top deck can abuse it really is a low point for this game, which is a shame because I love it but man I hate konami. ontop of this all the amazing new cards you need to buy to play in the meta are all secrets, they find out the best cards people are hyped for and print as many as they can in secret

[@mr.wafflesrz1137]

5:25 That would magic the gathering

[@kaiserstorm886]

3:46 that hurt my feelings I use Vayu Turbo

[@dailydoseofgundamofficial1296]

Konami EN is just weird, me speaking as a OCG player

[@eeveemaster8902]

This is why i want verte back. Remember adventure format? I had ab 8k dragoon in cyber dragon once Beacuse it was a wall. It let me compete against them. Seeing the options go. It kinda makes things stale. Though i believe the banlist is needed. I think some choices are bad.

[@veljkodamljanovic6726]

I don't care if it's banned... I PLAY POT OF GREED!

[@TagFul19]

Very good Yu-Gi-Oh content

[@identitytheft7305]

melffy better get an in-archetype omni tower or just decent support with a good boss so you actually do stuff

[@diegoleite4074]

To be fair, negates are toxic, those bans were necessary

[@gabrielshimabukuro546]

Very dynamic video, love it.

[@Nyartatouille]

Swordsoul players in shambles

[@Linkingx2]

100% what i have been saying, SE gets new cards anyway and spams out the next best links. The older decks without relevant bossmonsters lose everything in comparison since they actually rely on them carrying the older engine. Also of course banning after makeing them available for poorer/younger/budget players stinks, and well for others who got qcrs... Its the classic lets treat the symptoms not the problem. These generic cards did saw play in the last couple of years but only with SE have they become such an issue. Since again as you said SE "cheats" them out so reliably and consistently. Other t0 decks had them in their extra deck sure, but since they had their own bossmonsters they didnt overly rely on them. Snake eye has no bossmonster its just engine go brrr. Well now they have FS and get azamina :)

[@RoseSapphic]

Me and my friends play alot at eachothers houses. We build meta decks to bad decks. I built pure cyber angels for the fun of it, cyber dragons n more playing against my friends decks. Kozmo vs cyber angels was fun a duel

[@MarkThePage]

Kozmo is a fun deck to experiment with! At least now that Dark Destroyer isn't unstoppable like it was back when it first released. But as a Duel Links & Speed Duel player I'll never get over when Cyber Angels were the top deck... so many OTKs...

[@RoseSapphic]

@@MarkThePage in speed duel it was insane but in tcg is pretty meh, its fun though, if you can combo off you can break so many boards with natasha

[@chizuru9389]

First statement was enough to generalized how bad the game is going. "Banlist is supposed to balance the game". Being a company that needs money should not be an excuse to balance the game. As long as there's no diversity in the meta pool, a majority of players will not have as much fun as before.

[@a_man_with_a_plan]

it all went downhill after master duel 4

[@Entharias]

I honestly agree with Konami, banning generic boss monsters is a very good thing, long term. Also i do not agree with their minimal hits to consistency because at the end of the day, the deck still functions the same, but it went from 6 copies of Ash to 4. If i had to change the banlist, i would keep Snake-Eyes at 1/2 and entirely ban poplar, that would hit the deck fairly hard and keep it down until Azamina; As for Yubel hits, just limit Phantom to 1.

[@pehfos]

Snake Eyes has been a plague on all Yugioh formats for so long and the way it's being handled is absolutely moronic, I am of the opinion that SE must die with Flamberge and Poplar getting banned but I am also not a fan of generic extra deck negates. In one hand yes, low tier rogue decks lose their ability to have an actual end board and just say no to Nibiru but on the other hand I also don't have to go against those boorish cards ever again. Meta decks are strong for a reason, banning Baronne alongside Borreload and Apolousa is a good thing but I don't think banning those cards NOW fixed any issues, like you have said, it only makes other decks that relied on those cards weaker while SE itself doesn't really care that much since they can just do anything in the game (just play Fire King lol + with Azamina coming out, any consistency hits become instantly obsolete in face of even stronger power creep). Leaving problematic cards alone so weaker decks can compete may be a good thing for deck diversity and playability of that deck but is it worth making a rogue deck competitive if all it does is floodgate you with Shifter and other nonsense? In my opinion no, those cards are absurd and it's only a matter of time before an even stronger deck can make use of them and ruin the format, also more importantly they are NOT fun to play against and make for extremely frustrating games.

[@MarkThePage]

Yeah, regardless of when these generic bosses should be banned, right now was not a good time to do it.

[@BASEDROBBERSPONGE234]

lol thunderbird go brr

[@doubl2480]

I just want them to import Rush Duels to the TCG. Been waiting for that for a very long time. If the "pause" of Speed Duel means we can start getting physical Rush cards, then I'll take that. Otherwise it would have been meaningless. Apart from that... It's sad that the banlist is more and more a commercial tool and less and less a balancing tool. I wanted Apollousa, Savage and Baronne gone for a long time now, because I really dislike generic negation end bosses. So I can't say I'm mad about that. But it really was just an excuse for not hitting directly on the top deck and to keep selling cards. Looks like someone made the maths and said, hey, we don't need to satisfy the players to sell more cardboard, we just need to force them to buy it. Yesterday I heard about the shutdown of Concord and how impactful it could be for the videogame industry, showing higher ups above game developers that you can't just keep taking bad decisions on managing a product with the idea that "people will still buy it anyways". We now need this for Konami. We need a Concord point, when the card game community will say "No more, we won't buy this", forcing them to start a dialogue on what needs improvements. I love this game and don't want it to die but... we can't just continue in this downwards spiral, we need changes to happen.

[@MarkThePage]

The ban list has always existed to make new cards easier to sell, sometimes aggressively forcing players to reinvest (like when all the synchro strategies were killed off in 2011). But only in recent years has this stunt been pulled for so many consecutive lists, actively damaging the game's balance. I hadn't heard of Concord. I don't think such a point will come. Especially since it didn't come for Pokemon after Scarlet, and it hasn't come for politics here in the US. I think people are too invested in sunk costs and stuck in our ways.

[@Swordsman99k]

I'm hyped for Rush Duel to flop in America and drive people to other card games, Concord style.

[@steeveedragoon]

I have a couplemof things to say: 1. Ban Nib, I hate it and it's not fun 2. Spright is very much where the game should be in terms of power. I understand that they need to power creep or whatever, but if every new good deck they made was roughly around the power of spright it'd keep the game fresh and getting a new deck would largely be based on what the player thinks is fun. It's even fine if the new decks are better than spright, it's just that spright's viability does seem like a good way to tell if the game is in a healthy state or not.