COMBUSTION CHAMBER MODS! "V" GROOVE & "SOFT" COMBUSTION CHAMBERS!

[@williamzoom]

In the early 00's I read about Singh Grooves on the internet & I was pretty much out of racing cars but was still racing motorcycles and took a dremel & cut a groove in the head of my DRZ 400 Supermoto. I won a lot of races and had a very well known DRZ engine builder accuse me of ''cheating'' by various means & had the engine P&G guaged several times and even made money betting on my tear downs! I never showed the combustion chamber, I would take the head off and lay it aside. They were always convinced it was bore & stroke related!

[@Bbbbad724]

I put them on a Banshee but I also used a degree wheel to time the pistons just like a cam to feed the case the right amount to the timing of the pistons. Those things are so fast I loved 2 strokes. I got fired from the team for making too much power, he is my nephew and he ran on a circle track 3/8 mile dirt and he was wheeled and flipped for being a lap ahead and he broke a rib, man that thing was fast, running Paducah. I told him the he should stick with TT . But I didn’t get to keep setting up his 4 wheeler Igot the blame for his wreck, but they started losing TT where he still won his track championship. But he sold all of his stuff because he wanted me running the team.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks for your comments about your experiences and like you been hiding my chambers for a long time and now I just exposed the actual direction the groove has to be directed to the lean areas. I feel this is a good video to further explain the concept and applications!

[@juhanaltsaar2093]

Yes, same here read about the grooves developed and tested by Somender Singh. At the time, I also got to reading alot of stuff on Ecomodder forum. Guys over there experienced notably less detonation with these grooves.

[@GregoryPalumbo]

Once again, we are privileged to have Ben share his insight / experience & knowledge with all of us (his racing family)!! Where else & who else would broadcast something like this - FOR FREE....Just another gift from the Master...Thank You Ben !!!

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks Gregory!

[@benrossbach6501]

Man it's nice to finally understand why when going from closed to open chamber timing needed to change so much.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks Ben and we all learn from each other that is for sure!

[@krusher74]

and why hemi's are dogshit.

[@rickyfulks889]

Thank you Ben for sharing, ur one of the few professionals willing to share ur knowledge with the world of gearheads

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Your welcome Ricky and thanks!

[@suntzu5836]

I'm all ears Ben!🤓. And happy belated Veteran's Day!😔

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thank you and same well wishes to you very sir!

[@ElvinLeadfoot]

Ben’s Mad Science:) You and David Vizard It’s been a trip:)

[@ryandaly9831]

I took your advice and used no second ring and top Z Gap in my 347! It revs way faster with no blow by. I don’t know if I will ever do another engine with a second ring now! I will say, I had issues installing the pistons with the top Z Gap rings, they kept coming out my ring compressor for some reason. Thanks for all the advice Ben, please keep it up!

[@benalamedaracing2765]

That is exactly what I wanted to hear from people who tried this elimination game and love it! Thanks Ryan for the feedback.

[@arturozarate1752]

I've built 3 engines, 2 LS3s and 1 408w, without a second ring this year. All 3 monsters on the street! All 3 used MAHLE pistons and thin metric rings. I was curious to see if the thin rings would be an issue. Nope. All good. Ben, I'm not sure if you ever mentioned oil ring gaps when doing this. I scratched my head for a minute and I decided to open the top oil ring to 0.030 and left the bottom ring as they came at 0.015. These LS3s carried the power almost 1000(6,300 to 7,270) rpm further before gradually decreasing from peak. I had dynoed both previously and the only changes were one less ring and oil ring gap. Peak power increased 8%, but gains of 15% were seen down low from 3.5k to 5k..... Good stuff Ben!!!!

[@jesse75]

Very interesting. I'm going to position the top ring accordingly.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks Jesse.

[@flinch622]

Perfect vid, having just brewed some coffee. Air is lazy. Air + fuel even more so. Very important lesson here is pistons will tell on their detonation past

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks Flinch!

[@rolandtamaccio3285]

Smokey Yunick , took an OEM engineer out for a ride with his hot vapor conversion . He told the engineer the same thing as Ben did . That he was gonna floor it in the higher gears at a verg , low RPM . The engineer said it was going to turn the pistons inside out ( or something to that result from detonation ) . The car just accelerated away cleanly and smoothly . We, have to keep in mind that Smokey had an almost perfectly even air / fuel vapor . If there is further discussion .

[@benalamedaracing2765]

The man is a legend no doubt. Spoke to him several times and a really humble man.

[@mikedonzero2692]

Smokey was brilliant. Met him several times over the years. The first time was at Earl Gaerte shop in Rochester Indiana back in the mud 1980's

[@Bbbbad724]

Thank you Ben for explaining all of this. I have not seen this laid out so completely. My FE D shape heads have never detonated at 11:1 at 37 degrees. This was with 93 octane good gas with the fix you recommended. It is a big difference. This is great. Ford even went that direction on the later smog heads. They flowed less and they tolerated compression better and made more power. The D shape needed the later chamber, and needed less timing. I made the area above the intake to have V grooves so I could keep the quench, where I saw white, Does that work for you? I pointed the grooves at the plug. My FEs at .035 quench and 13:1 with race gas never broke with the groove. But I know you have something better. I m the top side of the domes to facilitate the burn the tight area. With the grooves on the dome and the quench it seemed to burn it clean. I did cut back the top of the quench a bit but the grooves helped a lot on the FE.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

I have seen many apply the grooves that did not make sense but it probably help either way so I am happy for them. You seem to have been and done that so it is much easier for you to do it right the first time.

[@Bbbbad724]

Thank you! I really am honored. I m coming back for more, but I need to be quiet and be respectful that this is your class. I learned all this the hard way. Many, many keyboard commandos have discredited me. Knowledge is a powerful thing and I give it freely. Thank you for sharing your s. I have to tease the folks who teased me for all the guitar string and chainsaw file time I spent.

[@Bbbbad724]

I have watched this video 3 times now and I think that with the C0AED head and my single shape will allow.036 Quench gaskets and 285 cfm at .450-.600 lift with out stall at 28 h2o without any grooves will allow a 4.125 bore and 4.025 stroke at 427 cubic inches flat tops with eyebrows and.600 lift and 10.3:1 will burn very well and avoid detonation. The hp would likely be close to 1.5 per cubic inch. The cam is 245@.050 .600. The exhaust is 65%_68% per cent of the intake. I arrived at this conclusion by listening carefully to what you are saying. I’m enjoying this discussion very much. I am thinking of the possibility of a 427 ci and I am learning more and more about the importance of the relationship of combustion and flow in relation to energy in the event and efficiency. Thank you for sharing this with us and I am looking forward to more details.

[@deanmoser5907]

Thanks Ben. Awsome hard earned knowledge yet again. I love your channel. Can't wait for the next one.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks again Dean as usual appreciate your comments!

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Dean, question. Did we go at the same time at the AETC event @ PRI?

[@deanmoser5907]

No Ben. I am in Melbourne Australia. That's why I have pestered you about Cleveland stuff. They were the engine to have here and are still very popular. I am sure you are aware most of the best Cleveland stuff is made here. They were used in passenger cars for 13 years here. The Windsor was not used much. I would love to go to PRI though.

[@dce428]

👍👍. That's what I been thinking for. A while now. On channeling the quench area thanks for the video. Now I know I was on the right track

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Glad you tuned in sir. Thanks!

[@Jvcomet]

Good to see you back ! Great info as Always. Thanks

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks!

[@elvingoertzen8261]

Excellent information Ben , I could have used these tips on my last build..so many more things to consider on my next build after watching and learning from your experiences..

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Follow on from the video tips and should have no issues and good luck Elvin.

[@Bbbbad724]

Amazing Ben, thank you,and I apologize if I muddied the water at all.

[@ElvinLeadfoot]

Ben a good project for you and me will be a Coyote engine. With a Polyquad head. Polyquad meaning two different sized intake valves and two different sized exhaust valves. Creating (Twirl) combination of Swirl and tumble. That’s how you make 4 valve engine build more low end torque.

[@ElvinLeadfoot]

Swirl Ben The circular motion of air intake with closed chamber heads. (Swirl) 4 valve heads they call it tumble. The air (tumbles) into the cylinder with a 4 valve head. The Swirl effect is where you get your low end torque. That’s why 4 valve heads lack low end torque. The air tumbles into the cylinder, instead of swirling and mixing the fuel air mixture better:)

[@jesse75]

I buy and collect Cleveland engine parts. Especially the 4v heads. Several of them, open and closed chamber heads have been ported and polished. One set of heads has been modified with 3 v cuts in the combustion chamber. I have a Cleveland set up and already broken in to run on a dyno. Saving up money. Not cheap. Shop said I have plenty of time to swap intakes and carbs. Well this video has me swapping heads and looking at the combustion chambers. Glad it's so easy to take apart a Cleveland. Thanks for such an interesting video.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Apply the grooves and let me know.

[@jesse75]

@@benalamedaracing2765 I sent a picture to drag boss, and asked him if he ever seen anything like it on a Cleveland head.

[@ldnwholesale8552]

4V heads make excellent door stops or very heavy paperweights. You will never get any velocity on those huge dumb ports. Even the 2V is too big. Closing up the chambers and putting a big floor in the port will help. Meaning the port is about 100% too big.

[@jesse75]

@@ldnwholesale8552 if you lived near me I'd give you a ride in my truck and show you how wrong you are.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

If you set up your block to displace a 408/400cid even the big ports will move like a big block! With compression of 11:5 minimum and perhaps higher with octane boost on the street @ 12:1 it runs like a big block! lol Exhaust port withstanding due to the dog leg it still surpasses the exhaust port capability of just about any small block out there. I use tonque plates on the exhaust and leave the intakes alone and they work just fine. The reason the NHRA Competition Eliminator/Super Modified class used epoxy to shrink the ports was due to the small cubic inches they run at as part of the rules! This said, @ 400+ cid the Cleveland 4V heads is one impressive cylinder head as I explain on one of my videos comparing to the BBC and others.

[@Trev-fl1oe]

Awesome vid mr Alameda. You explain things so well im actually getting smarter. Thankyou sir.peace

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Glad to help!

[@waynecera4422]

I've torn down heaps of LS engines for GM and it always surprised me how much fuel wash there was on the piston crown on stock engines. Now after your video i understand. thanks. Wayne Cera Australia

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Big hp means bigger injectors/carbs showing their inferior mixing capabilities at lower to mid rpms! also happens on stock engines like you observe but on a lower scale.

[@tbl8560]

Ben, thanks for sharing. I noticed the sharp edges on the 2V V groove mod'd head. Then heard you mention rolling the edges on the 4V mod'd heads. I figured you likely roll the edges on all V mod'd heads to eliminate sharp edges/hot spots. Please confirm. Thank you again for sharing!

[@benalamedaracing2765]

The edges are not that critical because specially on the bottom it is on the richer areas of the combustion chambers. I should have also made clearer on the modular to roll the centers of the edges to further facilitate the introduction of the flame front to the lean section of the heads if they do not want the grooves. Having the grooves definitely helps and I very minor after effects of doing these processes.

[@Kaydee351C]

Thanks, very enlightening as always.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Very welcome

[@jjjaaa888]

Thanks heaps Ben! God Bless You Amigo!

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks!

[@claytonstoolbox]

Interesting question, if two combinations had the same compression ratio and everything else was equal. But Combo A has a big chamber and a flat top piston. Combo B has a small chamber, and big valve relieves or a dish. Which would perform better?

[@benalamedaracing2765]

That is a good question! a dish piston will act like a big combustion chambers so that is an equalizer. If the piston is made with a dish that mimicks the combustion chamber then it will be superior because Quench is in play here. Normally an engine with smaller combustion chambers with the same compression would be superior.

[@warrenglover]

I want to say thank you treacher for showing this . I won't tell anyone I promise you . 😮

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks Warren and let me know how you did!

[@theshed8802]

Thoroughly enjoyed this video Ben. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with us. Regards Greg

[@benalamedaracing2765]

My pleasure!

[@ElvinLeadfoot]

Awesome Work Mr. Ben Heart & Soul Amigo

[@ElvinLeadfoot]

V - Groove - A-Ha Plus it consumes all the fuel air mixture. None of its wasted - none of it can detonate:) That’s produced more low end torque:) (You’re getting a full burn Mr. Ben) David Vizard did not show us this because he was only going up to about 10.5 to 1 on his beastly 383 SBC.

[@jcnpresser]

Learning lots of cool stuff from your videos! ✋

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Glad you like them!

[@davidrobinson6113]

Hello Ben. I had a VHS tape of your white Mustang running 10’s in the 80’s. I’m a big fan. Quick question. Do you have to do anything to the head gasket when grooving the heads? Thx keep up the good work!!

[@cdburlock]

Very interesting. Have you tried this in a stock engine from '68, 11 to 1 compression 429 that knocks easily even with 91 octane? Pre fuel injected there wasn't computer management. Are any drag racers investigating this ? You said torque was increased , correct ? Don't use domed pistons ? Is the flat edge of the piston beveled downward ?

[@benalamedaracing2765]

There are a myriad of issues with some engines made worse when they were rebuilt by non performance shops or some performance shops just as bad. From too thick a head gasket, pistons down the hole, thin valve margins etc...

[@jesusgutierrez145]

Hey Ben, thanks again for another great lesson. Quick question, would ceramic coating the piston and chamber help or worsen this lean pocket issue or would the coating protect the piston?

[@warrenglover]

Sound no matter. Nothing to do head gasket.. listen to Ben..

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Coating will just keep that area protected but I doubt it would do anything to diminish the onset of detonation. In fact having a reflective characteristic it might thou on a minor effect hasten the secondary explosion due to the heat is not absorb by the piston (to its detriment) but reflected or push back into the dangerous zone hastening a detonation possibility.

[@warrenglover]

@@benalamedaracing2765 on ls head that you draw . I'm not sure what I can v groove or I can do die grinding do soft?

[@bobirving6052]

I think you’re right about the ceramic thermal barrier coating Ben. I have melted pistons that had the coating. Need to do more experiments now that I know so much more about quench and lean spots.

[@warrenglover]

Ben and he a killer motor.. he smart man right there..😮

[@charlessagona4582]

Thank you for all your valuable tech

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks Charles!

[@orjansjogren4578]

Hello Ben. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge.👍 I really would like to know your opinion on crancing pressure. As usual when searching for answers on internet you get different opinions depending who you ask. I have a good running 347 with 200 psi cranking pressure. I use 98 octane fuel and have the ignition set at total 28 degree, have also tried at 30 degree without problem. Some people say that It will not work and that it will will get detonation problems, and other say that it is no problem. Would be nice to hear your opinion on this. Regards Orjan from Sweden. 🙂

[@benalamedaracing2765]

I feel with that 347 and perhaps it has 5.4 rods and flat tops? It would like a total of 34* and if you can apply it @ 2500 rpms that would be great. Perhaps if you are geared low have it come in @ 2K and it should not even detonate. Now on cranking pressure you must be below 200# and you are on the edge and I would like to know the cam and specs you are using. ?

[@orjansjogren4578]

​@@benalamedaracing2765 Thank you so much for your answer. Yes I have 5.4 rods and flat top pistons. Performer RPM heads. Quench 0,045 10.27:1 compression ratio. 98 octane pump gas (Sweden) Mustang 66 with 3:55 gearing and T5 transmission. Quad Weber 44IDF 8 stack induction. Rocker ratio 1.6 Comp Cams XE 274 HR camshaft installed at 109 degrees (1 degree retarded) Grind Number:XE274HR Advertised Intake Duration:274 Advertised Exhaust Duration:282 Intake Duration at .050: 224 Exhaust Duration at .050: 232 Intake Valve Lift:0.555 Exhaust Valve Lift:0.565 Lobe Lift Intake:0.348 Lobe Lift Exhaust:0.354 Lobe Separation:112 Intake Centerline:108 (installed at 109) Exhaust Close ATDC:25 Intake Open BTDC:29 Exhaust Open BBDC:77 Intake Close ABDC:65

[@bobirving6052]

High cranking people pressure means that your engine is good at trapping lots of air at low rpm. If your cam is for street or race, the duration will trap less air at low rpm. Nobody cares how the engine performs at 350 rpm.

[@bobgyetvai9444]

Why didnt you v-groove toward the lean intake area ?? Ok the revised does . Brilliant !!! Depth & width ??

[@benalamedaracing2765]

.050 thereabouts when it comes to the edge of the combustion space and gradually getting shallower the closer it gets on the cylinder wall area.

[@bobgyetvai9444]

@@benalamedaracing2765 Ty !!!

[@dalelockett2619]

Excellent info again, Ben! Have you considered looking at this V-groove application concerning a Ford Mod Motor 3V cyl head CC layout? Or does the V-groove have any practical application on this particular cyl head CC design due to the piston top dish design (very little area for effective quench application IMHO)? All this is starting to show me other reasoning why Ford designed\used the CMCV flaps w\ actuator at off idle, low RPM operations w\ this 3V cyl head in addition to what is usually reported........I'm very tempted to reinstall my CMCV's & run specific testing to see if their usage alone w\o any changes in my tune calibration actually creates the off idle low RPM TQ response improvements claimed when the CMCV's are closed......... Another test project on my list! 😃

[@benalamedaracing2765]

I do not recall the piston configuration if it has a big round dish or somewhat oval? It must be a flat top or custom piston to mimick the chamber shape so we do not lose the chamber effectiveness! You are an astute observer of engine dynamics and enjoy talking with gearheads like yourself! Thanks Dale.

[@dalelockett2619]

@@benalamedaracing2765 The OEM piston is a 3.55" (90.2mm) w\ a 6cc round dish which leaves an approx 3/8" flat top ridge around the outer circumference of this piston (except where the exhaust valve relief is cut to allow the cam to retard the cam EVC timing the full 60* retard for VCT specs) which looks to provide a slight quench effect to push this minor amount of A\F mix into the dish area during dwell to centralize the A\F mix to the spark plug. The cyl head CC has a small quench bridge between the 2 intake valves (which is right in front of the spark plug) which looks to move this small area into the spark plug area, except for the section of piston dish area located under this. The cyl head intake\exhaust port is a high angle design which is almost in vertical plane thus looks to flow straight into the tulip headed exhaust valve during OL then roll down cyl then back upwards towards the 2 intake valves. This design looks to have the tendency to create some uneven A\F mixing, especially during off idle, low RPM operation due to lower IM runner port velocities.......gets worse when VCT retards the cam EVC timing (adding in intentional EGR exhaust flow for NOx reduction). Flow bench tests have intake valves flowing at .300" @ 210 CFM, at .600" @ 260; exhaust valve flowing at .300" @ 124 CFM, at .600" @ 180 CFM......so this appears that Ford is trying to disuade the intake airmass flow going out the exhaust during OL (also using the exhaust positive pressure wave rebound to help this along w\ EGR) while the piston is just starting to move down the cyl bore during the intake stroke after OL transition, further needing increased intake port velocity to prevent creating inert areas in A\F mix that will not burn thus throwing off good flame front spread...........thus the need for the CMCV offset plates. The going idea from a performance standpoint is to remove these CMCV's to improve high RPM airmass flow (reduce frictional drag) for improved high RPM HP\TQ performance..........but now I'm wondering how much off idle low RPM available HP\TQ is actually lost from removing these to make a better determination as to whether this action is really a good move......especially if high RPM operation isn't a priority. From my tracking of the engine's Cat CE Ratios (emissions) w\ these CMCV's removed, the numbers look very stellar (in the .1xx range, threshold is .656) thus doesn't seem to show any detriment thus doesn't exhibit any issues from poor A\F mixing.......but I'm also running a set of Lunati VooDoo #21270700 cams that have earlier cam IVO\EVC timing at VCT 0* than the OEM cams along w\ a set of Kooks 1 5/8" LTH's which should accelerate\extend the OL period\effect which may be offsetting the intake port velocities (meaning increasing them naturally during off idle, low RPM operations w\o the need of these CMCV plates) to the point that the A\F mixing is getting done well w\o needing these CMCV's. Thus, when using aftermarket camshafts these CMCV's aren't needed...........only when running the OEM cams. This is why I want to run tests to find out since it appears that no one else has done this.........all my preliminary data gathered seems to support not needing these CMCV's using aftermarket camshafts that use optimized cam IVO\EVC timing......which would be a good thing to know & make sense that the aftermarket cam grinders would do. So yes, Ben.......I too tend to look at things through a mechanical engineering mindset to know\understand the variables involved as the hidden knowledge is always hidden in the details.......IOW's how far to the right is 1 willing to push the decimal points! This is why I love your videos & take your info seriously as we both seem to be like minded..........so I get where you're coming from! 👍👊

[@FORCFED]

Hello sir , this V groove work on a Trick Flow PowerPort 365 BBC heads CNC ? Running 93 octane pump gas with 12.5 static compression and much lower dynamic compression. Camshaft intake 67.5 before TDS. .040 head gaskets 548 cubic inch NA engine.810 Lift solid roller cam. Thanks looks interesting for detonation.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

What is the duration @ .050 and the LS of the cam?

[@FORCFED]

@@benalamedaracing2765 thanks sir, it's 111 but set at 110 and @.050intake 279 exhaust 288

[@benalamedaracing2765]

@@FORCFED looks good from here and now pump the cylinder #1 and see if it exceeds 200# after 4-5 kicks of the needle! If it is below that you likely are good to go.

[@FORCFED]

@@benalamedaracing2765 thanks again sir, I'll check in couple weeks here. Bless you great knowledge from your videos sir 🙏💪😎

[@FORCFED]

@@benalamedaracing2765 oh new engine does it matter if rings are not seated yet?

[@GrandPitoVic]

Wow Ben, this is some great information. I am not an engine builder but I am working on my first Ls3 swap. I am going to apply this to my 821 heads. This is my first Ls. Not my first engine tho. Street car. Burnouts and ice cream. But I do want her strong N/a. But this will make my engine safer from detonation and seems like it will help with low end torque. It's going in a 03' Crown Vic Police Interceptor. She is a heavy girl at 4200 lbs. Gotta get the right gearing and torque converter. I am planning on possibly running a Red Hot cam. Before I choose gears and stuff I will be sure on my cam selection. I really enjoy your videos brother. There is some great info. Thank you brother.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks and let me know how you did. Having the groove on the LS chambers really helps!

[@GrandPitoVic]

Will do sir.

[@genefogarty5395]

What about dimpling the intake runner where they meet the head and inside the bowl also? Do you see any possibility in directional flow changes that could help keep the short side lean condition from happening?

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Lots of hit and miss with them until you really know the flow gradients within the ports.

[@mikeg4163]

Very cool. Looks like “sign” groove…

[@benalamedaracing2765]

There are perhaps many variations but I am not aware of directed groove to the problem area(s) and I think I am the first to identify. Many racers know this deep down but he locked up the patent which i think expired. No racer would attempt that then and expose what they have... Thanks Mike!

[@Bbbbad724]

@@benalamedaracing2765You have the words and music. I was astounded by how similar the v grooves were to mine. I had to learn how to get the fire to the fuel and even vice versa. It’s fascinating to see your work. It took me a lot of time to do what I did. When you have to build an obsolete engine to 14-15:1. Months.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

@@Bbbbad724 Glad you had similar observations.

[@bobgyetvai9444]

Somebody made BBC pistons with the quench areas leaned circumfroncely toward the intake pocket by i think .005 thousandths if i remember correctly . Who....i dunno too long ago . 15 yrs at least .

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Somebody probably had the same forward looking idea 15 years ago!

[@jesseduke694]

Wouldn't the edge of the groove create a hot spot???

[@benalamedaracing2765]

From what I see it does not due to the fact when it consumes whatever is in there, then it is burned up and there is nothing left to detonate or pre-ignite.

[@peterolson8350]

Wery intressting, thank you

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks as well sir.

[@FORCFED]

What was head gasket size and quinch size? Thanks

[@benalamedaracing2765]

I try to keep head gasket diameter within .010 of bore size and the quench .040 at least somewhere in that vicinity.

[@drewdavis239]

Ive seen similar cuts on a diesel, but it was on the pistons. Any reason the v grove could not be cut on the piston instead ?

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Depending on the shape of the combustion chamber so the quench can shadow the grooves to properly work.

[@bobirving6052]

@drewdavis239 Grooves in the piston increase the surface area and increase the heat. They sell pistons with grooves because that is easier to sell than heads with grooves. Also those diesels have a combustion bowl where grooves in the head would not have effect. They also use a thermal barrier on the pistons.

[@patrickwendling6759]

Thank you for your knowledge and video's USA 🇺🇸

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks Patrick!

[@richdouche8253]

Ben, did you ever try putting multiple v-grooves on the quench pads? Say 3 groves on the lean and maybe 2 on the rich side? Perhaps in a sort of starburst pattern angled away from the spark plug origin point like rays of sunshine? Let me know if what I wrote doesn't make sense visually... Thanks for this knowledge! Love your videos.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

From observation I feel duals only work for the 4valves on the lean intake side. Just 1 does wonders on 2 valves and perhaps there are others that may need it but so far have not seen it.

[@richdouche8253]

@@benalamedaracing2765 I suppose if only one spot is lean on the quench pad near the intake valve that would make sense. Thought perhaps two v-grooves might ensure you purge that area but also the exhaust valve area.... Effectively splitting the pad into three sections. But sounds like it's never been needed on the exhaust valve side of it.

[@mikedoty8149]

can you do sumthing on open champer heads we are stuck with open chamber heads

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Depends on the compression you are trying to reach. I when having this issue "digitized" my combustion chambers and mirror that to the piston dome therefore you get a little of the "slap" to the mixture generating some kind of compression mixture motion. It is a custom type of work so it depends how much you have and how much you really need it for.

[@davidmoore9482]

Have you done any work with the David Viserd? Probably butchered the name But I think that would be a really productive conversation

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Vizard has been at it for a very long time and credit to his knowledge passing it to many...

[@Hellashift47]

@benalamedaracing. Hey Ben thankyou for the way you explain this. Very knowledgeable and appreciated your time. I have a l67 3800 series 2(231cu), its supercharged from the factory. These engines are very well known to KR, factory is 8:5:1 and kinda a d shaped combustion chamber design (kinda similar to the first v groove combustion chamber you showed in this video. My plan is to up the compression by putting the NA series 2 short block (l36) underneath this l67 top end which factory the l36 is 9:4:1, i wanna put the right quench together but also the V groove to see if i can get rid of KR. Do you suggest or have any knowledge on engines that are prone to having KR, the direction of the V groove?

[@benalamedaracing2765]

I need to look at the cylinder head and intake , exhaust ports to make a determination. I am unfamiliar with this engines so I need to see the actual parts.

[@Hellashift47]

Thankyou Ben, I do appreciate it. And if it helps you know what motor I'm talking about, it's the 3800 v6 that gm put in alot of gm cars for about 30 years, series 2 is 97-03 and series 3 is 04-07or08. If I'm correct, it's the predecessor to the 86 and 87 grand national motors I believe

[@warrenglover]

WOW , cool . I will do on ls 5.3 .. Groove how much hp cn do ?? Thanks . I didn't know that 😮..

[@benalamedaracing2765]

It should work great Warren!

[@warrenglover]

Quench only one side . On 862 ls .

[@juhanahuovinen]

Thank you Ben! -juhana

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thank you as well sir!

[@littlevman2997]

I wonder if the softening can be optimized by matching the piston rock angle and no more? Just a theory

[@benalamedaracing2765]

That was my attempt by sloping the piston centers and seem to work but limited my compression desirability.

[@warrenglover]

On LS head , can i do groove on cylinder head? Or softy and die grinder??

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Done it many times to great effect! I have use a die grinder and a thin cutting wheel can be accomplish but be very careful you cut a straight line then use the V file or a pneumatic file will be the best.

[@frederickhairston3823]

How about 3/64 cutoff wheel or thinner.@@benalamedaracing2765

[@mrbonafied78]

When I get the cash I’ll need Ben to build me a 363 stroker solid roller 11:1 that’s still street friendly

[@benalamedaracing2765]

A 363 would be awesome and at that compression over 600 on pump gas is doable.

[@mrbonafied78]

@@benalamedaracing2765 music to my ears!!

[@val0360]

Awesome video,would a gen 3 Hemi head benefit from any kind of v groove?

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks for watching and supporting my channel!

[@Doug-b4p]

Low buck mods are the best

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Low buck and smart assembly will yield more power no doubt!

[@finnroen2334]

Thank you.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Appreciate your viewership sir.

[@donbrutcher4501]

When detonation happens in one quench area of the chamber, does it instantly set off detonation on the opposet side because of the pressure spike?

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Good question. It does not set up on the opposite ends because the burn would have consumed that area much earlier in the ignition cycle. The only thing is if it has hot spots like a thin exhaust valve margin or some localize hot spots on the combustion chamber. Otherwise it should be good.

[@warrenglover]

Hey what about I can use flat punch clisle??

[@benalamedaracing2765]

I have not use that. I use a sharp scribe and then a thin cutting wheel that must be done straight and finish it with a pneumatic or V file.

[@robertheymann5906]

On those quench pads, is there and advantage or disadvantage to the cylinder head pad being tapered. So the quench pads are not parallel but tapered with the wider part of the taper being towards the center of bore?

[@benalamedaracing2765]

As I explained on this video care must be taken to keep the tapering to the utmost minimum or else you may have transformed the closed chamber to an open chamber acting cylinder heads!

[@robertheymann5906]

@benalamedaracing2765 Thx Ben, I missed that in the video I'm building a 2800 pound autocross car with a small block mopar and have learned much from you. 11.7:1 with stroker kit and trick flow heads and these combustion chamber details are priceless. Have a splendid day brother

[@benalamedaracing2765]

@@robertheymann5906 Thanks Robert and appreciate your comments.

[@robertheymann5906]

Wow, realized I didn't finish the video, got distracted but just watched it again and discovered all the gold! Thx Ben

[@mikedoty8149]

will your v grove work onn open chamber heads on a sbc

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Generally it will not.

[@warrenglover]

How much i can cut down? 0.20 thousands of inches?

[@benalamedaracing2765]

.050

[@warrenglover]

@@benalamedaracing2765 0.50 mill off cylinder head ? Wow . And intake too . Shorter push rod or slim up under neath rocker arm

[@warrenglover]

@@benalamedaracing2765 I'm trying figure out on your pictures on ls. V groove or soft die grinder?

[@warrenglover]

@@benalamedaracing2765 you mean 50.

[@warrenglover]

@@benalamedaracing2765 you mean v groove 0.50 ? Or mill head? 0.50 off?

[@daledavies2334]

Somender Singh groove technology. An Indian motorcycle racer with a patent on this. Patent must be expired now.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

His process does not explicitly point at the problem areas which I show where these grooves tend to be applied for the best results. I see others just got a groove without much explanation why that is and where it should be.

[@daledavies2334]

​@@benalamedaracing2765Very true. Somender Singh was interested more in mixture motion and creating jets of high velocity air/fuel to speed flame travel. Singh applied this a bunch on 2 smoke bike engines which do not have valves or quench pads to collect lean or rich pockets. You definately present points to consider and keep an eye on. I am slowly getting the parts together for the 1966 289 in my 1940 Fordor street rod. Found DSS pistons to give 11.8:1 static compression to aid fuel economy. I have been looking into this groove technology to keep detonation. Combine with water injection as per David Vizard to also enable the use of 87 pump fuel to keep fuel costs down. As a mechanic I learned a long time ago to do research and form a plan up front and then stick to it. I have also procured the Chev 1.9"I, 1.55"E valves for the heads and 7/16" rocker studs. Thank you for your wisdom.

[@scottosborne8735]

It is never perfect. The best we can do is choose a dedicated application and build to support that, only. Street/strip is the most difficult goal. You can't serve two masters. This is why older engines were so flow restricted. They were not designed for racing.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

The manufacturers starting to see ring positioning specially for N.A., as well as attention to similar port entry/exit unlike years ago with the BBC long/short intake ports and the Cleveland exhaust! We have come a long ways...

[@warrenglover]

Teacher I mean lol . Sorry spell wrong 😅..

[@bigboreracing356]

👍🏻

[@rogerpaulll1451]

hope the old bucket of bolts lived that looked bad i like that ol girl

[@TheWebWheeler]

First On Race Day!

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Sounds good !

[@ErinMalczewski]

Thanks so much for sharing your V groove experience. I became aware of this newer technology. I think there is another technology that would greatly enhance the performance engine world. It was marketed as a fuel saving technique but equally holds it's own in the performance world": The Gagetman Groove. Here is Mike Holler {who has v gr ooved more than a few cylinder heads talking about the effects of this modification. Enjoy. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnO7ZWagZcifitE

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks for sharing! I met an old NASCAR racer from the 60's and told me they were experimenting with chamber grooves at that time, but he told me I was the only one that pointed correctly where the groove has to be directed at! Wherein others just place a groove without really a reason why, it is going there or wherever like he said!

[@ErinMalczewski]

@@benalamedaracing2765 I know you version of Sign grooves allows the engine to run cooler. But what is even cooler is how cool a gagetman groove engine runs. The tail pipe smells like a dryer vent too. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i32zeqqJa86plbM