Should Batman murder the Joker? [Discussion]

Addressing the controversial question: should Batman break his vow not to kill anyone? Never miss an episode by subscribing today! bit.ly/2WYvgkt #batman
ComicPop is a few friends talking about comic books. The ComicPop team brings a bunch of unique points of view to every single discussion about a comic book, graphic novel, character or story arc. You can find full conversations about your favorite titles from Marvel and DC Comics, plus a few pretty key independent comics. If you're looking for a long, funny conversation about Batman or a deep dive into why Spider-Man is so neurotic, check out the hours and hours of amusing, insightful and downright stupid conversations about some of your favorite comic books over the years. If you're a longtime comic book reader or just starting out, make sure to subscribe right now!
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[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

"Hey, Jason. Listen to me. Dooon't go to the docks at around 7:15. The Penguin's going to be there to pick up a shipment." "Midnighter. Dooooooon't go to this warehouse at 11:50 where there will be an exchange between Black Mask and Two Face." "Spectre, there's gonna be a bad guy doing a bad thing at this time. Don't go there." "Sir, what're you doing?" "Waiting, Alfred. Waiting."

[@factfraud9437]

Not gonna lie, even if the Joker was legally insane, I'd still want him put to death. Along with practically every other super-villain, which come to think of it they're more like glamorised serial killers just with some master plan that is coincidently always stopped just in the nick of time.

[@ugoeze7360]

I love the full cast roundtable format and in depth discussion of character archetypes, deconstruction, motivation and real world/comic world insertion. Please keep this coming!

[@badfoody]

remember when Batman fought the first Talon he encountered. He let the guy fall off a building. That's killing

[@sheevinit1490]

Sal’s joke delivery kind of reminds me of Topher Grace’s joke delivery in “That 70s Show.”

[@andrewmatseshe7343]

While as an former Infantryman, I am not averse to lethal force BUT, a Batman that kills on an even semi-regular basis, that pretty much turns Gotham into Mega City One lol. Seriously though, great discussion. Very well thought out points.

[@JoeBrando_]

does killing even matter in the DC universe when characters come back from the dead on a dime.

[@thatHARVguy]

Or a giant penny.

[@panthor109thabest7]

Justin Last you could afford 3 slices of pizza with toppings

[@IvanKroloCroGeek0424]

That's always been a dumb argument to me. Why wouldn't Batman kill him even temporarily if he's (apparently) self-aware enough to know how the BS of his universe works? He might as well "kill" Joker all the time to keep him away for longer than a stint at Arkham ever would if he was 4th wall breaking that way to know it won't really break his rules long term.

[@TheShockVox]

Ivan Krolo Not everyone just comes back to life, and if he kills, what's to stop him from continuing to do it? He knows he's not the law, and that's why he's allowed to operate the way he does.

[@IvanKroloCroGeek0424]

I'm aware, I'm mostly pointing out the idiocy behind Batman having some Deadpool level, comic book self-awareness as the reason for him not killing people. There's also the issue that writers always tout Batman not killing people as a moral absolute EVERYONE must adhere to. When it's not, as Under the Red Hood says, Batman choosing not to kill is because he doesn't trust himself to stop if he goes over the line. It's a psychological thing for him, not a moral. Everyone else touts it as THE rule all superheroes must abide be. Even though Batman's on the Justice League... where everyone's killed, people. Hell, Aquaman kills the evil Batwoman in Dark Nights Metal and nobody cares. Everyone writing lots of superheroes seems to think they'll devolve into mass murdering psychos like Bruce if they cross the line which is just ridiculous on multiple levels. Everyone in the MCU kills people from Iron Man to Spider-Man and I don't see anyone in-universe or from the fandom losing their shit over it.

[@SmokeysVideos]

Batman should not kill, but he shouldn't have to save them either.

[@andrewmatseshe7343]

Hey! Smokey! Didn’t realize you’re a member of the POPulation! Cool man. Love your channel too👍

[@comicsmisexplained]

Good to see you here Smokey! I've enjoyed your videos for awhile 👌

[@JaiProdz]

Hey Smokey :) !!!

[@abelsanchez2070]

Batman Begins reference

[@lonelywolf5659]

@@gosh402 I don't know where you get this from but okay

[@leosanalien9904]

If the argument is that he needs to consider killing the Joker because he kept getting out and conduct terrorist acts, then Gordon is more than empowered to execute him whenever there’s a clear shot and it would’ve been “by the book.” It’s the State’s job to execute or keep prisoners in prison. It’s uncanny how often the villains got out. But no matter what the in-story reasons are, the metatexual reason is always that they need new stories. Batman’s code was never the cause of any of that. He’s not responsible for it. When the writing is good, or at least in stories I personally love, he’s always been inspiring and figured out ways to apprehend villains and neutralize dangers without sacrificing his principle, which is why he is inspiring.

[@architeuthis3476]

No, of course he shouldn't. His character unravels if he does. The reasoning for this is explained in _Under the Hood_ . Its not about morality, its because maintaining a body count of zero is the only thing Batman has to keep track of which side he's on. I especially like what Sal said about a gun not feeling right in Batman's hand. The only exceptions can be in "Elseworlds" stories like the _Red Rain_ trilogy, in which Batman becoming a killer *irreversibly* transforms him into a villain.

[@self-satisfiedsmirk5544]

Archi Teuthis Stating that Batman's hard-line stance against killing isn't about morality, *then* immediately claiming that it's because it's the only way for him to know which "side" he's on (i.e confirm his own morality) is oxymoronic, as the two statements run in direct contrast with one another. To say nothing of the fallacy in taking a single interpretation, albeit a popular one, as proof of why the character shouldn't kill, especially when said interpretation is really just a reason created to justify not killing off prominent villains. Batman's hard-line stance against killing is an overly simplistic, myopic view of morality that doesn't hold up to scrutiny, especially when (like many people in the comic book community, writers and fans alike, do) you try to apply this stance to other superheroes. At least half of the members of the Justice League, including Superman, the poster boy and moral beacon of the DC universe, have killed before with no real ill effects to their mental states or social status. The most prominent instance to the contrary being the fallout of Wonder Woman killing Maxwell Lord, which was more due to editorial machinations behind the scenes to set up for Infinite Crisis and, within continuity, was headed by Batman. To posit that killing makes an individual virtually indistinguishable from criminals is insulting to all types of people; from cops and military personnel to random people who took the life of an assailant in self-defense. But, to suggest that Batman's reason for being so vehemently against killing is due to his insecurities about his own mental state imply that he is already too similar to the criminals he faces and unfit to be a superhero. Of course, this isn't the case though because... Comics.

[@architeuthis3476]

Breeze Cornelius, don't misunderstand. I was referring specifically to Batman's no kill policy as having nothing to do with the morality of whether or not killing is justifiable, not anything else about the character. My point was that Batman is he is well aware of just how similar he is to the criminals he faces, but is not so much insecure about his mental state as he understands that certain actions can fundamentally change him as a Platonic form. The no kill policy is simply the line he has drawn to distinguish himself from his rogues gallery. I admit I could have been more deliberate with my choice of wording, but my point still stands. Also, I never meant to universalize this no kill policy for characters other than Batman, because Batman's reasons for not killing are unique to his character, and don't translate to other characters. Have yoo read _Under the Hood_ ? If not, I recommend it. While I have a big problem with Jason Todd coming back from the dead in continuity, a story in which Jason Todd is a ghost that haunts Batman, like a combination of Jacob Marley and Frankenstein's monster does make for an interesting a "What If?" story. The examination of Batman's no kill policy is the gem of the story (hint: Batman gives a superficial explanation for his no-kill policy, which Jason Todd calls BS on, and the real explanation is given through subtext) As far as being insulting to police goes, if any individual law enforcement officer's solution to crime is to use violence, I'm not too concerned if it hurts their feeling when somebody calls them on it. Spend some time in a country where police aren't armed to learn about effective law enforcement procedures. ...and just in case it comes up, I'm not suggesting Batman qualifies as effective law enforcement, even with his no kill policy.

[@mrboykins4619]

i wouldnt want to see batman going around killing especially since we already have alternative stories of a batman who have no objections to murdering villains ( for example flashpoint batman, earth 3 batman , the dark universe batmen injustice etc ). not to mention we already have a story with batman dealing with one of his " batfamily members" killing a villain. it would be hypocritical for him to do a 180 after the fact .

[@kaboose111]

Thomas Wayne would have had a chance to defeat the mugger if he too had a gun. The idea of Batman telling every day citizens that they shouldn't use guns is what I would call legit white/rich privilege.

[@alexb4849]

I've always thought the key reason Batman doesn't kill is because he believes in rehabilitation. And it's expensive to create good new villains every few comics.

[@koichidignitythief7429]

Except the comics have hardly ever shown rehabilitation only in extreme circumstances or elseworld material.

[@sonicjr53]

This was really fun. Love when you guys do these conversations! One thing I'd like sometime is something about superman. It may not change much, but I get kinda annoyed when people call him a boring character.

[@AnarchicArachnid]

Oh and on batman's historically : he did kill in his first stories, Bob Kane wanted him to be shadow 2.0 in terms of gun wielding vengeful assassin type , DC editorial(as well as Finger and Fox however steered to the more "child friendly" never kill side of things)

[@architeuthis3476]

Something I only found out recently is that Finger thought Batman needed to kill in order to be effective (hence why the Joker died in the first encounter), but he and the rest of the staff got tired of bringing characters back from the dead, and decided it was just simpler to give Batman a rule against killing. The more kid-friendly stuff came later in response to _Seduction of the Innocent_ (which accused Batman of being, not just a murderer, but a pederast as well - hence why Batman was briefly married to Batwoman and the couple raised Robin and Batgirl as their children) and the Comics Code. I don't generally care for golden age Batman but silver age Batman is horrible.

[@AnarchicArachnid]

@@architeuthis3476 and that just makes me hate Bob more as a creator, as instead of even introducing new villians or legacy villians he just kept bringing the old ones back

[@TheStormbringer8751]

Here's another compromise that no one thinks of. "Hey Clark." "Yeah Bruce?" "I've had it with the Joker." "I'M NOT GONNA KILL HIM!" "NO NO NO NO NO! Put him in the Phantom Zone." "......How did neither of us think of this till now?!"

[@kingdomhreats23]

If you think red hood is correct yes.

[@HOTD108_]

That's a very redundant comment that you could make about literally anything.

[@TannerThePuppyGamer]

he's mostly right

[@HollowGolem]

Regarding the "public works issue" bit 12 minutes in, in Rucka and Brubaker's Gotham Central they have a temp who works in the office turn on the signal so it's not an actual GCPD employee summoning Batman. But that was Bullock and Sawyer, not Gordon in charge. Also, I love how Ethan casually transcends existence Grant-Morrison-style at 25:34. Azrael losing it when he thinks Batman killed in Bruce Wayne Murderer/Fugitive has kinda been explored. Also, somewhere along the line, the criminal justice system (and GCPD marksmanship) has failed profoundly for the Joker to still be around. A regular murderer, fleeing prison, doesn't require much justification to shoot.

[@BucketThinkTank14657Nerd]

I've always wondered why NO ONE in the GCPD ever tries to kill the Joker, it's honestly the biggest suspension of disbelief I have when it comes to Batman. In regards to if Batman should kill, I always think he shouldn't. Not just for the obvious reasons but I've always viewed it as Gotham needs him not to cross that line. In the idea that Gotham City is always a city on the verge of madness and Batman fights it with his own brand of madness and the people of Gotham respond to it. If anything I would have a problem with Bruce and the current version of the Bat-Family killing but later down the line, I think that would work better.

[@redx-man8813]

The reason Batman shouldn't kill is because of what could happen within the Superhero community if the Superheroes started breaking the law, they wouldn't stop until they took over like in Kingdom Come or the "Injustice" series. And thats like a really simple way of putting it, but Even in Hush, Gordon says to Batman "that I let you operate as a crime fighter because you operate just within the law". Also Batman and pretty much all Superheroes do break the law probably a little bit, but Im sure we can all agree Murder is pretty bad.

[@redx-man8813]

Also The SuperVillains probably know this and take advantage of the situation because Superheroes and Villains now live in a delicate Ecosystem

[@superioridiot3846]

John Toland Animations, this would be true, if we were talking about the film versions, but we're talking about the comicbook version, most of the time Batman hasn't killed(with the exception of parademons) and even then, they're soulless, mindless creatures. Most of, if not, all the examples you've pulled out have been from the films.

[@superioridiot3846]

John Toland Animations also, please don't assume that he doesn't understand, just saying, not trying to be rude.

[@self-satisfiedsmirk5544]

RedX-Man88 While I understand where you're coming from, I disagree for the simple fact that superheroes already break the law in numerous ways on a regular basis. They break the law simply by donning their respective costumes and fighting crime, to say nothing of various other offenses such as trespassing, breaking and entering, theft, spying, corporate espionage, assault and battery, impeding lawful investigations, tampering with evidence, and obstruction of justice, just to name the most common across-the-board. The superhero community regularly hack into government servers (thereby compromising national security) and have the resources and finances to construct, supply, and maintain massive installations. They have access to all manner of advanced technology, which they horde, and even "confiscate" advanced technology sanctioned, financed, or created by the government (despite the fact that they have no legal authority to do so). There's literally nothing stopping the superhero community from toppling the government's of the world and establishing their own regime already.

[@gosh402]

murder is against the law, killing isn't necessarily so you go ahead and throw that line of complete garbage where it belongs

[@r.babylon2885]

I always wondered something about the criminal element. Do they have some kind of connections between themselves regarding Batman? As an example: Falcone calls Black Mask to tell him Batman and Nightwing have been spotted on the west side of the city so they can carry out extra crimes on the east end.

[@richardball5843]

I guess they would if they were friendly with each other, but most of the time villains will fight other villains as much as heroes. I could see Flash’s villains having a system like that, but not anyone else.

[@TheShockVox]

I vote no. It takes away an interesting aspect of his character. However, while my position on the death penalty is complicated, I think someone like the Joker is waaaaaay over qualified to receive that sentence. Batman isn't the law, he's a citizen who's helping do what the police can't without crossing the ultimate line. If he starts killing, he's not a hero.

[@gosh402]

the aspect of his character that absolutely loves murder and death because it gives him purpose

[@Mycatsnameiswednesday]

If Batman kills he loses his complexity and intrigue and then he’s just Punisher in a big silly costume. Plus it just feels like he’s taking the easy way out to me

[@d.c.stranded7134]

I think because of how layered the the debate of someone like Batman killing is a reason fans will keep discussing it

[@Zxzero36]

Honestly it seams to always to be started with the joker with this debate, I don't think I have heard this of anyone else for his rouges gallery. In fact I'm surprised that with all of the tech and friends as his disposal he hasn't done anything for freeze crock or clay face. Ivy in recent years has become more of anti or somewhat good and so has clay face why not Victor.

[@theangelperiel]

Im not saying that Batman should kill (as that would damage him both mentally and as a character) BUT perhaps he could use his endless skills to forge a DNR, slip it into the Joker's pocket, and tell Lobo that Joker called his motorcycle a moped.

[@TheWrestlingful]

I found this conversation interesting! I hope we get more of this!

[@andrewwestfall65]

One of my favorite Superman stories is What's so Funny About Truth, Justice and the American Way, or Superman vs The Elite. The things I liked about it the most is that Superman straight up says, "I get why you want to kill these people, I understand that these people are terrifying and you are right to feel angry about them breaking out. But when you are in the public eye like we are you can't just go and murder people. People take cues from us, kids look up to us, we can't just do whatever the hell we want"

[@papinacho8716]

Man, I agree with a lot of the stuff you guys are saying and appreciate all your perspectives. in my opinion, even if Batman did kill the Joker he would come back to life, because that is how the DC Universe operates. There is nowhere these heroes and villains can't escape from. I also, don't know why such double standards are applied to Batman when people like Lex Luthor and even Amanda Waller have done much worse things than the Joker and no one cries for their heads. Luthor once murdered the entire country of Uruguay, if I recall.

[@HancockVasquez]

Loved this. You should do more discussions like this. Maybe do one for Spider-Man.

[@maskofshy]

17:08 Why DCEU's (MoS, BvS, WW) take on the World and Characters was the perfect one.

[@keikurono192]

I think Rorschach is a better comparison to make than The Punisher for Batman becoming a killer. If Bruce started killing people he would just end up like Walter Kovacs. And from that he would be stopped by Superman or some other member of the JLA.

[@Charles-ct6jn]

More of this please

[@MataNui.]

Honest question, why is it only ever heroes that don't kill that are the subject of these debates? Why aren't we asking if the Punisher should stop killing?

[@architeuthis3476]

Mark Millar addressed this question in a short story is called _What if the Punisher was a Bleeding Heart?_

[@lostzenfound5122]

This was a great discussion. Glad it popped up in my recommended. Would you or have you already expanded on the topic with what characters would you be ok with killing someone or which characters if any you think would be capable of killing?

[@ethanrichmond3992]

Next issue of Tom King’s Batman: Batman murders Catwoman!!!

[@dignerds]

Yes..as last resort...killing isn't always immoral

[@TheStormbringer8751]

Under the Red Hood talked about this. Joker should be dead. He's the only human villain who's plans are designed to die. Riddler, Dent, Penguin etc are in it for money. Yes people get caught in the crossfire, but Joker will blow up an orphanage on Christmas Eve for the hell of it.

[@jimothie64]

38:04 I absolutely love that moment. *XD*

[@Cubelarooso]

I get the impression that crime in Gotham was SO BAD that even if you are afraid of Batman putting cameras in your house so he could come break your nose when you pirate movies, it's less afraid than you were of random criminals doing the same thing. Also that the Joker has a transcendental existence, so that even if he died, the city itself would create a new one as a counterbalance to Batman.

[@ultimate_lance]

Batman shouldn't kill because once he does there's always going to be an exception to the rule he set for himself or a loophole to exploit.

[@hanamori21]

This video is fantastic guys! This is exactly what i want to know; others opinions about these fundamental philosophical questions through the filter of heroes and villains and the worlds they live in. This content is great for raising more questions leading to more contemplation which i think is sorely needed now more than ever. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Oh and i think as a constant( whether i was in the comic reality or this one) I wouldn't want Batman to kill because there would more than likely be ridiculous consequences from the ripple effect down the line we couldn't predict because both the D.C. world and this world are bananas.

[@teriyaki_chicken]

there should be a civil war moment where a mother of a person killed by joker comes up to Batman and says “when is enough enough” and Batman has to carry the burden of what to do with the joker. as cool as it is to explore Batman’s feelings, it would also be nice to re-establish him as the dark character he is

[@panthor109thabest7]

Jupiter Astronaut Batman snaps her neck trying to put a hitman on someone

[@panthor109thabest7]

Jupiter Astronaut but it already happened with the victims of Batman

[@architeuthis3476]

Something not too far from that did happen, it was called _Under the Hood_

[@gino07770]

In the real world they dont scape. Pablo Escobar El Chapo

[@gannonkendrick9343]

You've got a very odd diagonal center line moving from the comic rack in the back through the edge of Sal's arm and then through the edge of center (Dark Knight?) Batman's cape. Before I knew what I was looking at, I thought Sal and Tiffany were filming in separate locations from Ethan and Ben, and it was two halves superimposed together.

[@ThePandaSupreme]

Batman imo should only kill the joker and that it... if someone gets out of jail so many times and kills so many people over and over I think that’s ok for him to kill that person if the police and government can’t handle it... in reality I say the death penalty should be in place for the joker and people like that because that’s what would happen honestly... but overall Batman shouldn’t kill. joker should be his one and done like in man of steel when Superman didn’t have any other choice but it’s not like he’s cracking necks left and right lol

[@toxicroach3033]

Hey bring this series back plz

[@kingcoheed1208]

As for the Idea behind more Jokers appearing, Joker does some magic to become kinda like Voldemort but instead of living inside a turbin and drinking horse drink he just takes over people's bodies, so no matter how many times you arrest him or kill him, he's gonna come back

[@GitShiddy]

Damn, you guys touched all the points...breezed over the hypocrisy of Batman happily blowing up Parademons or burning Ivy's sentient(?) plants, but having such a struggle with a person. But overall pretty concise. I will say though, building off of something Ethan said. I'd love to ask people in a demilitarized zone or a police state in the real world (there's a bunch of them) how they'd feel if Batman existed where they are & their opinions on his no kill rule. That would be a truly interesting perspective to hear.

[@rcluff86]

This needs to be on a best of Ethan playlist. He is on point!

[@TupocalypseShakur]

After the Joker War people not wanting Joker dead would be confusing. People were dying, bombs destroyed infrastructure, it stopped being crime and became acts of terror

[@thomasarcanine]

It's what makes a superhero super, to be able to do good and NOT give in to darker impulses. This is why I hate DCEU's take on Superman and his "blatant" disregard on destruction. And though it looks awesome to see Batman brutally whoop ass on criminals (like on BvS), ultimately I like my Batman doing everything on his part NOT crossing that killing line.... I think that issue on Batman: Hush, about seeing Tommy Elliot "killed" supposedly by Joker and having Batman almost crossing that line until Gordon reminds him, defines how Batman stands in his "no killing" rule...

[@HollyTellingStories]

"What are you the fart police now?" 😁😁 Lol

[@devildriverrule111]

I mean the fact his rogues gallery keep coming back again and again and again, I mean... It'd be easier for him to just kill them.

[@andrewmatseshe7343]

Yes! Do Spiderman! That would be a great discussion. Also, Wolverine lol

[@colton99whch]

I vaguely remember, but which version of Batman is built like Street Fighter V Akuma? (Statue in the middle.)

[@scubasteve4355]

TDKR

[@redjohniii8665]

I think it would be better to get a magic user like Zatanna to mind wipe the supervillians or make them think they're good, kind of like she did to Catwoman, instead of killing them. Or perhaps have Superman use his heat vision to mess with their brain like he did in that movie Superman vs the Elite. Even if you do kill the Joker what stops you from killing the rest of the villains who commit heinous crimes just like him or whats stopping other villains from rising up and taking their place? I feel like it would be a lot of senseless killing which would make us no better than the villains.So, personally I don't think that Batman should killing his world. Either way I liked this type of discussion you all had and hope it continues. Hope you're all doing well :)

[@kylearkham1569]

3:32 face palm

[@markgreen4151]

Of his goal is to be effective yes when the situation calls for it

[@geekmangacomic9916]

I think Batman should kill bad guys if they pose an immediate threat to innocents or himself. Example: If Batman is fighting a large group of people and in the midst of combat has to break a guy's neck, he should do it. However, he shouldn't kill somebody like Joker if they're apprehended.

[@hose614]

Love the vids you guys brought up some good points I didn’t think of

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

Heroes, like Batman, should kill their supervillains if they treat jail like a place where their problems go so that they don't have to deal with them anymore. If a hero treats jail like a place where they think their villains will be held forever to rot and pay for their crimes, you might as well kill them. Jail should be, or the hero should want it to be, a place of reformation, where bad people go in and good people come out. Naïve, I know. But, it's better than going "Ha! They're your problem now, suckers," to the cops.

[@Zxzero36]

I always feel like this debate gets marred with people talking about all his villains. I think if this question was only focused on the joker it would be different. In recent comics Harley, ivy? , and clay face have become good (still waiting on Victor), but I can never see the joker be reformed (unless your going about the white night story)

[@deltaprime3509]

No Batman should not kill but I’ll tell you who should the law it’s not his fault that the city of Gotham doesn’t give any of the villains the death penalty.

[@ryebreadreturn1]

Technically it's the state that imposes the death penalty, or the Federal government in rare cases.

[@linusa2996]

It's better to allow the Joker to kill a hundred people than for Batman to kill the Joker. Sigh, seriously this is why I liked the Green Arrow in both the comics and in the CW more.

[@macklinbutcher1865]

Linus A Batman should kill the Joker. Or at least let someone else do it.

[@toob46]

I like forestfire101's lego Batman version of it where joker gets hit by a car and it was just a random accident.

[@aaronbeasley3194]

Batman may not kill face to face with guns, but cannons on the Batmobile and Hellfire missiles on the Batplane probably aren't very non-lethal.

[@jwoolfe1445]

This made me think about a broader point: what is Batman's end goal? at some point he would hace to realize that the lifestyle he's living is unsustainable. So his end goal is to eventually die on one of these missions... hmm kind of samurai, Hakugare deal... I buy it! Thoughts?

[@michaelthethird702]

My wife and I will occasionally have this debate during our Batman book club. She believes that Batman should because it would make Gotham safer and prevent others from rising up. I agree with Sal and Tiffany that he shouldn't kill because it is against everything that he stands for. It's an interesting debate. If I were a Gothamite, I'd probably want Batman to at least kill the Joker.

[@Zxzero36]

I honestly think this argument should be geared towards the joker. We seen from stories that Harley, ivy and clay face can change and be good

[@Eudaimonia239]

character wise he shouldnt, I always liked how he and superman have the same rule but for diferent reasons. as for a real life point of view of course there are situations where you should, but again this is a fictional character so he can be whatever he likes.

[@mewmewodonnel5500]

Yes, because honestly it would be fresh idea if they rolled with it.

[@Grievousish]

Should super-heroes in general kill? I'd say no considering most average super villains aren't homicidal serial killers. Should Batman kill? At the very least the joker needs to go. Dude's killed so many i'm shocked there hasn't been one Punisher-esque hero to show up in the DC universe and blow his head off.

[@RayOnRoundball]

I maintain Jason Todd as Red Hood should have killed Joker, and after Batman died(not catapulted through time) and Dick took over, Red Hood would have been his perfect arch nemesis.

[@Dragnay]

Being killed wouldn't stop the Joker. This is the DC Universe we're talking about. You KNOW that if someone killed the Joker, he'd be back after a few months, either as undead, or with some extra powers or whatever.

[@architeuthis3476]

So that's a good question. I think it depends on the character. In the case of Batman, no, not even the Joker. However, in the case of Azrael, the Red Hood, Lady Shiva, etc, yeah, they should all try to kill the Joker.

[@Grievousish]

@Dragnay Well this whole discussion seems to be based on the idea that Joker would be dead permanently, unless they went with the "new person takes up the mantle" idea that Ethan mentioned. If Joker did just keep reviving for some odd reason then the whole moral dilemma is thrown out the window.

[@panthor109thabest7]

Grievousish That's because who f's with the joker.

[@mo_4484]

No, if he it would be hard to see him as a hero. How could he be friends with Gordon or the boyscout Superman if he was a killer.

[@douglascaldwell3622]

I say no! Ethan... Literally laughed out loud at work. Well played

[@jaredpatterson6215]

Ethans point at 25.30 holds no weight to me because I feel everyone at the table ss forgetting the crucial difference with the DC and marvel universes. Objective morality exists and there are beings morally above you. You could with magic or technology sufficiently advanced that allows you to talk to and visit these higher beings. Batman wont kill anyone because in their universe there is no difference between killing 1 or 1million. Batman believes that anyone can be saved and helped, that's why plastic man is on the JL team.

[@xommerisking]

"No." Wow that was a fast episode

[@JP-1990]

Batman? Nah. Jason or Damien? Absolutely.

[@fido2644]

Should Batman kill ,,,, no. Because that is what separates him from characters like the Vigilante. Besides you would be surprised at what a person can live through, muhahahahaha and sometimes that is even worse. Imagine if you will say Zsasz a Batman villain that is a serial killer, kills a bunch of kids Batman instead of killing Zsasz he shatters the ball joints in both his shoulders, that would mean Zaz could never use his arms again.

[@soubhagyanayak3098]

In main comics i don't want to see Batman kill. Then we wouldn't get more stories with Joker, Ra's Al Ghul, etc. in the comics. Same thing applies to Superman and other heroes as well. In my opinion that's the real reason the 'no kill code' exists in comics. Imagine if Joker died in Batman#1. That makes sense. But we wouldn't be getting so many cool Joker stories over the years. I also like the idea that heroes have a 'sense' of morality. Even if that 'sense' makes little to no sense at times. This implies that they aren't just powerful bullies who do whatever they want. I appreciate the thought of giving a sense of morality to these characters. However my real opinion is the no kill code code makes no sense. How many lives could be saved if only Joker is killed? Not only deaths but also financial, psychological damages to people who are saved, but had to go through that. Batman shouldn't go about killing every villain he sees. But he ought to be smart enough to see that saving one guy due to his BS code is going to endanger more lives in the future. Whom he may not be able to save. Killing itself isn't immoral. Its the circumstances and motive which makes it right or wrong. Say in self defence you have to kill. Or you have to kill men who sexually assault your daughter. Depends on time, place and cirumstances. Under no circumstances someone like Joker should be spared. In essence you have the power but you don't want to take the responsibility.

[@Godzilla-tu2cd]

No batman should never kill

[@Godzilla-tu2cd]

Redding D. Shanks no

[@gosh402]

very very incredibly childish view of the world

[@dignerds]

Batmans no kill rule leaves more people dead

[@brandonbest650]

Use a meter basically the death penalty via Batman should be used for joker and mass murders

[@chrisconcannon6490]

This is a good discussion.

[@IamKel-gf2ty]

I think yes I’m certain case like the joker just because the majority would be affected.

[@hunterriley3072]

I know Batman has been through a lot but I do think he should kill because it kindve keeps some people relieved instead of leaving somebody on the edge of their seat

[@mattduncil]

The morals aside, he can t because from a writing the story's side, most of his rogues gallery would be gone really fast, because if Batman killed most of them wouldn't be a treat for new story's if they died, and I think that's the real reason.

[@1Wintro]

The problem with Batman doing murders is like DC doing a Crisis. He does one because he thinks it will be a real solution to a real problem... And then a few years down the line he brushes up against a similar situation. Eventually Batman is murdering every few years to solve Hawkman's origin and Robin of Earth-9 is punching reality to bring back Gotham by Gaslight Krypto. An army of Geoff Johns' and Grant Morrison's couldn't fix that mess. So I vote no kill.

[@dariangray4185]

My favorite person in DC is red hood so take a guess on what I think (even though right now he's trying not to kill)

[@jhamilton1007]

Batman has killed in the comics. Michael Keaton was mowing thugs down with machine guns mounted on the Batmobile too. 😂

[@ShawnWeeded510]

Joker, The Riddler, and R'as should be the only villains Batman should kill imo.

[@duncan2by4]

Reading recent Batman stories, I really haven't seen him struggle at all. Everything comes easy, without him going through much change or coming head to head with his moral standards like I've found in older stories. Now he just seems too big to be called "Street Level" or the "Greatest Underdog" as Rob likes to call him. It's hard for me to divorce the Batman I read in his solo series, who sometimes struggles with the everyday criminal underworld of Gotham; from the one I read in Justice League -- where he basically a Multiverse Threat at this point. I've honestly lost interest in the character because of this, and the No Kill rule bothers me in all Joker stories.

[@flashtheshapeshafter]

I don't think Batman should kill even the joker, though I do think characters like the joker should get the the chair at one point they just killed too many

[@byronmartinez7551]

I really enjoy this show. Keep cranking out videos lol.

[@joshgiambrone6939]

Yes.

[@AbdulazizAljanahi]

I like to think that the only reason batman is not the joker is that because he does not kill people. I'm not saying that one death is gonna make batman go crazy, but if batman is ever okay with killing he'd just be the joker they're both batshit crazy (get it? Bat shit?) the only difference is that one loves to kill people and the other doesn't 🙄

[@batnick7230]

I feel that there are situations where Batman should kill, but not all the time.

[@therevan7288]

I agree with you guys 100%

[@Zxzero36]

I think the only villain that batman should kill is the joker. Everyone else he really should help to fix their lives, Poison ivy has become sorta a good character I'm surprised no one has done that for Mr. Freeze

[@ianlaue6283]

We don't know that DC's Camden doesnt have a vigilante.

[@MrMike11233]

Good discussion here. Would you consider having it again with the likes of Joel & Jason Inman, etc.? I'd watch. Edit: Just to weigh in personally, Batman should *not* kill, not even The Joker.

[@dragonman969]

How about breaking almost everything his body to the point of being a vegetable. The joker would be kind of alive and if he woke up he could never move again.

[@ethanevans2689]

When was the rule that Batman couldn’t kill anyone created?