The Krakoa Era... and Joe and I wonder what happened?

[@ChrisLovesYahweh]

Krakoa opened the gate to allow every mediocre-bad writer get on this project. Once Hickman left, it was over.

[@ExplodingPrinny]

Their mutant ability was "sub-par writing."

[@lg6400]

Gerry Duggan is solid, Tini Howard started of well but fell off, Benjamin Percy is solid as well. I do agree about Hickman stepping back did open the door for boredom.

[@Bubbaj0e]

Krakoa really feels like Marvel wanted X-men to be a Game of Thrones with different "houses" but they forgot that the Villains have already been establish and evil so any heel turn isn't surprising or entertaining.

[@striderreborn1467]

The only "Evil" everyone should've seen coming was Mr. Sinister and his cloning games.

[@codybrinson3520]

Personally, there’s no point in sticking around for the remainder of the Krakoa era when the majority of the X-Office is going to eschew and squander all of the ambitious and soul-stirring potential from Hickman’s worldbuilding for their own personal fluff.

[@calculusaffair]

I feel you touch on a key point in the first half of this video - the characters' non-nonsensical and arbitrary decisions. To me it feels like the creators on X-Men have been so enamored with the 'rightness' of the Krakoa concept that they are unwilling to explore it honestly - thus the characters often feel like they are brainwashed or something. An early story that really illustrated this to me was Hickman's X-Men 7, the 'Crucible' issue. Nightcrawler's catholic faith is strong enough for him to have previously began the process to become an ordained priest - the casualness of resurrection and its ramifications on the soul should've been (in my opinion) much more deeply troubling to him. But instead he decides to disregard his faith and start a new mutant religion. Instead most of the writers seem to believe that a mutant religious commune cult is a perfect idea, and so are uninterested in any deeper examination of the more unsettling aspects of the concept. And so the X-Men act like weird religious disciples and make bizarre decisions. The same can be said for the persistent choices to allow mass-murderers into their government, establish relationships that are inconsistent with the characters' histories, speak/ act like smug bigots etc. etc. And so the stories feel, at best, inorganic, and at worst, creepy and condescending. At this point I feel the only satisfying way to fix the problem is reveal that everyone on Krakoa is being brainwashed, which is unlikely to happen any time soon because it would be too close to admitting that the whole concept was wrong.

[@MrWelfle]

I thought this exact thing back in the early days of Krakoa! Characters were all written the same! You're telling me literally everyone is just fine with this and there are no conflicts? It also hurts that there are no more thought bubbles because we used to be able to read the private agony of all the characters. Everyone would have different motivations for being for or against it and we would be able to read it on the page! I don't know how such distinct characters with decades of history and development ended up all being of one mind but it doesn't make for very compelling story telling.

[@DriveTimeMixes]

Kang was right. There is a meme out there about Kang explaining why he never views the xmen as a threat. I highly recommend it.

[@jonbodhi]

It’s very weird. I remember waaaaay back at the beginning, they were talking about how they couldn’t execute Sabertooth because: “that would put you in line for resurrection protocols,” and I’m sure thinking: ‘just DON’T resurrect him!’ I mean, if you can’t judge a cannibalistic serial killer, then you can’t judge ANYONE!

[@needfoolthings]

Let's always, ALWAYS remember Storm's Goebbels speech! And THAT was written by Hickman.

[@MrWelfle]

@@needfoolthings Storm is a prime example of what we're talking about here: she famously constantly pushes back against authority be it Charles, Scott, Logan...so we're just supposed to believe she's fallen in line and agrees and even promotes everything Charles and Erik are doing?

[@vernonhampton5863]

When it comes to the villians on the island, you can't put Magneto and Mr. Sinister on the same team. One is a Holocaust survivor, the other a Nazi. No. Just no.

[@seminolewind158]

Yeah, Magneto’s a nazi!

[@vernonhampton5863]

I really, really can't wait until this Krakoa Era ends. I have had a problem with every single step of the now evil, separatist, fashion famous and fascist X-Men. It's just completely off the rails silly and self defeatist. That and they aren't heroes anymore. It's weird and wrong.

[@davidgalvez5341]

"Sinister's up to no good." No shit, Sherlock.

[@codybrinson3520]

“What? He was attempting to transform himself into a godlike being and rule over the world as a dictator?? (Hellions #16) Well, we put a stop to it, so it’s safe to let him stay on the Council and do as he pleases with no supervision. We also know that Hank McCoy has been dabbling in villainy and can’t be trusted, but we shouldn’t keep him in check, either. It just wouldn’t be fair to him.”

[@albundy2609]

Krakoa is a Age of Apocalypse style story told in 616 instead of being in a alternate reality when it should've been in a alternate reality. It should've been over after a year tops. The biggest issue is that almost all the writers aren't good at writing comics.

[@walterlucero5757]

I remember when everyone was creaming in their panties because Hickman was writing X-Men. Channels like Comics Explained and Professor Thorgi were super excited and explaining that you have to keep reading Hickman's run for years to get answers to what's going on. Three years later and everyone's fed up with this run. I just want X-Men to be a strike force living in a mansion. Like how it was before the 2000 X-Men movie.

[@codybrinson3520]

You know the X-Office needs to rethink their priorities when even Mr. Sinister claims that 616 Hank McCoy is, at this point, WORSE than Dark Beast (in Immortal X-Men #9).

[@abloshow91]

Shaw is a known rpst. And he gets to talk to his victim every day on the council.

[@grunge2001]

Not addressing the sick f@%ks they forgive and let on the council / the paradise island as immortals is absolutely unbearable 🤢🤮.

[@lifemattersnot]

Shaw is probably the only villain who it made sense to be there but they downplayed the drugs. Honestly I feel like Krakoa needs its own hox pox to try again with people who give a damn.

[@uxm4life94]

It's very clear from Hickmans interviews and unexpected early departure that he intended the Krakoan era to be very short lived. Unfortunately the rest of X-Slack saw this as an opportunity to irreversibly turn X-men into their own tumbler fan fiction about their superior demographic living on their own segregation safe-space island. X-men had kept me with Marvel for decades but this is the era that finally killed it for all of us. I have no interest in these hypocritical, fascist, irredeemable and soulless plant people. It's easier to simply consider the post Secret Wars and Disney era of Marvel as the bad corporate sponsored non fan fiction that it is.

[@chubbbubb6870]

What happened? Hickman had a vision (for better or worse) that a bunch of no talent nepotism hires couldn't keep up with.

[@BirdNerd375]

I am glad you brought up Marauders. I have absolutely no idea what issue #9 was about; ridiculous, off-the-wall, space adventure introducing so many new concepts was impossible to wrap my head around. Not to mention, the crews’ space suits all looked exactly the same and I could not keep track of each character. Only for Steve Orlando to drop the end page reveal to keep readers tuned for next month was a disappointment. I don’t have the energy to keep up with that mess.

[@ComicGuy74]

Joe Corallo is always the highlight in any video he guests in.

[@ComicGuy74]

@@Gordonshumway4life that's right. Says me.

[@striderreborn1467]

The biggest problem with the "Krakoa Era" is that every firmly placed rule that Jonathan Hickman established during the early beginnings of "House of X" and "Powers of X" is slowly being broken without any care or consideration of making a compelling story.

[@DIOBrando-ij2bp]

The Krakoa Era was a mistake, and I still don’t get it. It’s an alt reality just like Age of Apocalypse and Age of X, but it’s an alt reality seemingly localized only on the X-Men. It’s one where Professor X and Magneto formed the original X-Men together yet somehow this didn’t change anything. I guess Decimation and Disassembled still happened despite there being no reason for either to have happened. Fatal Attractions seems to have happened despite that not making any sense in a reality we’re Magneto was alway part of the X-Men. It’s like Age of Apocalypse if Spider-Man, The Avengers, and the Fantastic Four occasionally showed up as their normal 616 versions untouched by the events of Age of Apocalypse.

[@jamesburdo1058]

They didn't form the X-men together. Magneto joined Xavier and Moira sometime around Uncanny #150, then had a split around X-men #1.

[@blackphoenix77]

Without Hickman at the wheel, the Krakoa era is all over the place. I really would like to see how he would have concluded it. Also, going back to status quo for the X-Men would be a step backwards at this point. Krakoa needs to end eventually, but they need to do something different with the X-Men besides having them hiding out in the mansion and being close to extinction again.

[@timogul]

I don't mind .1 issues. They tend to be ones that either have a different creative team, or that are just sort of side-stories to an ongoing plot, so they are "more story," but without distracting from the main story that is happening. As for Krakoa, yeah, they have completely lost the plot. The point of the whole HoxPox thing was that humans were not the true enemy, AIs were the true enemy, and humans were mainly just useful idiots toward their eventual victory. It was mutants verses machines. It would have been a perfect story to clash against the Iron Man plotline at the time that "AI is people too, let's be friends." THAT would have made for a wonderful "X-Men vs. Avengers" storyline that would actually have a real basis to it. But of course not.

[@jamesburdo1058]

You've got it backwards. Homo novissimus overthrew mutants. AI just bought them time.

[@timogul]

@@jamesburdo1058 In most of Moira's lives, the AI conquered both the mutants AND the humans, or at least seemed to be on that path before Moira died. In none of them were humans standing victorious over the mutants. The closest to humanity "winning" would be the one with the blue man group, but what happened at the end of that? Humans ended up merging with AIs. AIs won there too. It was always the AI.

[@jamesburdo1058]

@@timogul Not most, or even a majority. Only in lives 4, 5, and 9. Then it was a reprise of the threat of the Sentinels from DoFP, which the mutants and fans already knew about. The last volume of Powers revealed that the Sentinels and Nimrods just bought time for homo novissimus to emerge. "When man masters the building blocks of biology and technology, evolution is no match for genetic engineering." and You can see it in life nine, where the priest talks about heretical gene splicers. The choice to merge with the Dominion in life six is irrelevant to mutants, since they've already been defeated by then.

[@timogul]

@@jamesburdo1058 But again, the ultimate result was humanity merging with AI, the AI was always the threat. I mean, let's go through these, likes 1-3, we see no indication of what happens to mutants, she dies before it's an issue. Life 4, killed by a Sentinel, AI. Created by humans, yes, but they've already gotten that far in the current timeline, and passed the ball to AI. Life 5, they attempted conflict with humanity, sentinels were created and wiped them out. AI again. Life 6 humanity lives on to merge with AI, AI wins. Life 7, Moira goes to war with humans, Sentinels kill her again, AI wins. Life 8, she and Magneto take over, but die in a war, unclear whether AI were involved in this one. Life 9, she teams with Apocalypse, AI have taken over the earth. In all the ones where we have any sort of definitive conclusion, AI have taken over, and in the ones that we don't, there's no reason why they wouldn't eventually. The only one in which humans defeated them without a clear AI presence is the House of M one, in which she deliberately took mutanty to war with humanity, creating an existential threat that humans had to stop, and even then, that timeline could have worked out fine for mutants in general, since once the threat _she_ posed was eliminated, it could be possible for mutants to make peace with the humans. This would be an interesting way to end the Krakoa era, find some way of accessing the "moiraverse" timelines _after_ she left them, and show that actually, things worked out pretty ok in most of them, aside from Moira being dead, and the ones that were hellscapes were mostly due to her own actions.

[@johnwalker1322]

I wonder if they will "loosely" follow Hickmans original 3 act plan when they start ending Krakoa. And by the way, I would love to see Hickman's scripts/notes. I'd like to know how it was supposed to go

[@jamesburdo1058]

Supposedly that's what they're doing.

[@yanderefangirl8317]

My Theory: This arc will lead to Xavier to declare himself, God of Mutants, and he’ll use his powers on all of the mutants and order them to attack/enslave all of humanity, even humans who like mutants. Only a few mutants will remain unaffected and Scarlet Witch will use her power to bring back Moira’s ability to reset the timeline when she dies. Xavier, Mystique and Destiny will try to stop her, but they unaffected mutants will reach out to Xavier and make him read the minds of both innocent humans and mutants who have become casualties in his attacks. Xavier becomes so horrified by what he has done, that he will allow Moira to reset the timeline, though Mystique and Destiny still try to stop her so that mutants can become the dominant race. Moira is killed by Xavier, the timeline resets, and the X-Men universe is given a reboot. At least, that could probably happen, if the writers decide to reboot the series. They’ve already done that with other Marvel characters.

[@CaptainBadNews]

Both marvel and DC are in the era of unfulfilled promises, potential, then abandonment. Start something cool, build it up, never finish it or rush the ending, forget about that on to the next thing we will give up on etc. rinse repeat. Am I alone in feeling like this is more of a “thing” these days?

[@clonegeek3317]

Bro they just announced a Hypno-Hustler film.

[@adamfrey4920]

Somebody needs to do an X-Men: Life Story that tries to make cohesive sense of the various decades of X-Men. Because I'm at a point where there is none. The core of the X-Men should be "kids at Xavier's school," but that feels like it's been far less of the overall story at this point. Anyway, X-Men Life story. 12 issues, since there's too many variances to do in six months increments.

[@ryice944]

I mean there is 1 It's how it ended up at Krakoa With alot of time travel bullshit and characters growing and changing

[@wordfabstream8745]

Just pretend that the Xmen 'officially' ended with the Crystal Wave in 1995. If you do that, you have a complete story, thousands of pages long and you can skip the fan fic/deconstructionist/snowflake eras entirely.

[@adamfrey4920]

@@wordfabstream8745 I'd prefer to think of Claremont and Lee's joint last issue as the stopping point.

[@DIOBrando-ij2bp]

Of all the X-Men titles that have come out of this Krakoa arc, it’s weird there hasn’t been one going over how this changed major events. There’s a lot of stuff that no longer makes any sense as having happened anymore in this new reality where Xavier and Magneto created the X-Men together.

[@nivekleveb8872]

X-Men Grand Design did that, although it stopped at the end of Claremont's run.

[@adamantaloczy]

I read the title to fast and thought it said, "The Karaoke Era..."

[@____2080_____]

The point being made at 9:23 is the problem with your comic book company is ran by a giant global media conglomerate, who only see your value as content for a future, possible, theoretical movies. Jonathan Hickman needed to take over a struggling title in the same way that Lin, Wayne, David, Cochran, and Christopher Claremont, and John Byrne did with the Uncanny X-Men reboot. That way, stories can be made organically and holistically creating artwork in the medium. Jonathan could not even get started because that environment that he created that story and was hijacked by the franchise mentality of the editors and Company of the X-Men and service and launching pad of every woke, want to be screen, writer, marginally, talented bloke. The way Xavier was acting, was the perfect set up for him being a villain. Something that could’ve been woven into every Connecticut story that says things back to the status quo. The point that was made about Sebastian Shaw not being used properly comes from the fact that there are tons of villains and mutants running around marvel that you can’t properly do anything with them. Xia was a character back in the Claremont/burn time where wolverine was not invincible, or had hot claws, and seem like a creepy pervert, when trying to swoon over Jean Gray. Their universe back, then was grounded in a human level, slow influence, build very similar to the king pin. Throw in a character such as that into the realm of characters like Apokalypse, a character, who use celestial technology to become as powerful as Thanos pushes Shaw to become irrelevant. In fact, the whole idea of having villain mutants and regular mutants come together under a society was a concept. I believe Jonathan Hickman would’ve brought back to status quo in his far reaching mythology that he was trying to build. Marvel never had the patience to allow that to organically come about. That frustrated the writer to the point where he left in spite of his pleasantries. We get absolutely trash concepts of the gala. We get trash attempts at abandoning white male audiences into a hodgepodge of diversity that no non-white wants to be a part of, especially when it becomes hijacked by white LGBTQ politics which does not translate into higher sales by LGBTQ consumers, who largely have stayed away from the very bad attempt by white media executives to cater to that group. A lot of that sauce makes comics in this more wider Liz just not worth it. In the past, comics could have niche audiences in build value with their consumers. The greed of the speculative bubble put the industry on a crash course to forever becoming the condiments to the main global media conglomerate main dish .

[@paulmcgrew2932]

This is so depressing. HOX/POX was such an exciting setup and Marvel blew it. Even the most cynical comic fan acknowledged the greatness of this story. I hope a journalist/author will do the authoritative deep dive as to how this incredible premise fell apart.😟

[@cicolasnage5684]

Greed, exploitation of a great premise. I know Hickman had a long term plan just by the seeds he planted in hox/pox. But of course marvel had to run his plans into the ground with the sorry ass tactic of flooding the market with shit and cancel if it doesn’t sell. I only pick up the main book, and x-force and Wolverine because I like Ben percy. But i feel you on the depression of what could have been if Hickman stayed on.

[@paulmcgrew2932]

@@cicolasnage5684 yeah, it is depressing indeed.

[@faustmeth]

The Zachification of Perch and Joe continues unabated.

[@ronb113]

No offense to anyone involved? All offense to everyone involved, make something that’s not shit.

[@remc0s]

I have never read the Krakoan era comic books (and don't care for them at all), but as an industrial engraver who engraves many different languages for a living, i just love the concept of Krakoa having its own mutant alphabet.

[@nmj1937]

Having Joe on is always a treat. Much like how it is (for me anyways) when Tom Scioli is on Cartoonist Kayfabe.

[@drewtheunspoken3988]

I was under the impression that Sinister serves 2 purposes. The first is that they needed his genetic expertise and extensive DNA collection to make resurrection possible. The second is to show the compromises the X-Men had to make for paradise to be achieved. Basically, a political allegory. I'm actually still reading all of the X-Men books and enjoy most of them. Marauders is interesting, if not exactly good. New Mutants now feels superfluous and I'm guessing it's almost over. I wish Hickman could have finished his story but I accept what heppened. I'm also thinking Fall of X will maybe end the Krakoa era. I guess we'll see. Oh, and X-Men '97 is supposed to be out this year and I'm looking forward to it.

[@ryice944]

I honestly don't know where mutants would go after Krakoa there's so many now that would go to waste without krakoa

[@InfamyOrDeath-__-]

Haha, you’re still buying all that garbage?

[@ryice944]

I like marauders it's the x book that caught my attention Don't see how they would work without Krakoa

[@calebelectric]

So far I’m still following X-men, X-force, Legion of X, X-men red and Immortal X-men. So far their decent.

[@DIOBrando-ij2bp]

They just undo it like it didn’t happen like all the other alternative reality stuff.

[@jamesburdo1058]

Dazzler was the one with the "dump truck ass" in X-Terminators. The Quiet Council had a pool about when Sinister would betray them, but Emma Frost still gave him the knowledge about Moira.

[@brandenwalton2914]

Marvel and the talent behind the X-Men have all but wasted the potential of the Krakoan era. There's only two to three titles that are selling okay and the rest are on the "why hasn't this been cancelled yet?" list. The X-Office has been running in circles with very little development for the overarching story for this era and hopefully Fall of X marks the beginning of the end. If not, then the X-Men will truly return to the sales they had pre-HOX/POX.

[@rammisalami]

2:09 Indeed Mr. Corallo

[@colonyofcellsiamamachine6175]

some ideas seem to be from the legion of super-heroes such as creating an utopia, teleportation, star gates, resurrection of ferro lad and lyle norg, interlac, etc.

[@skytowergnome4664]

.1 issues are just more evidence that the publishers have forgotten how to count.

[@Mr_Robotts]

These are clones with memory implants. Marvel has established that clones lack souls, see Namorita, since they're copies of the originals, but the originals soul doesn't inhabit the clone. Nightcrawler is still there since he was removed from heaven 🙄 and jean grey can come back thanks to being eternally connected to the Phoenix force. The rest that died and "came back" are soulless clones, and considering how lame the stories have become, it shows. If they really did resurrect themselves, the entity of Death would send agents to stop them because they're upended the natural order. So, why should I be interested in reading about soulless clones? Namorita was at least interesting...until marvel killed her, then brought her back by messing with time and...have done nothing with her.

[@clonegeek3317]

Yeah but Ben Reilly has a soul as established by Peter Davids run on him. Hell all the characters that were resurrected in the Clone Conspiracy have the souls of the originals

[@Mr_Robotts]

@@clonegeek3317 isn't that because they're connected to the web of life?

[@clonegeek3317]

@@Mr_RobottsOr the Jackals clone tech is the only one that gives the clone a soul. But cloning in general just makes things convoluted.

[@Mr_Robotts]

@@clonegeek3317 technology can't make a soul

[@clonegeek3317]

@@Mr_Robotts somehow the OG Human Torch has one

[@TMac-os1hy]

Joe I get it you are emotionally tied to some creatives but I hate to tell you but all of the faults with these books is because of the creative team. Stop cutting them slack because you know them or are a creative yourself. This era is garbage the writers are garbage, either stop lying to yourself or if you don’t want to at least stop trying to lie to us.

[@mietha37]

Mallrats, the third most underrated Kevin Smith movie (behind Red State and Clerks 2). Edit: The only thing worse than .1 issues are the damn .MU or other abbreviation ones. What in the blue **** were they thinking with those? Edit: Spider-Gwen-Rhino is the most "furry-gone-wrong" thing I've ever seen in my life.

[@Firevine]

Mallrats - The last good movie Kevin Smith ever made.

[@AL-ws5yi]

Stop torturing poor Joe. I would like to meet him at NYCC again and I don’t want him to have a breakdown before then.

[@kennytodd7192]

I didn't get Joe's joke about what happened cause the damn audio cut out as he spoke 😐

[@Epidoxa]

Accoring to Joe, Destiny is the Ghost of Christmas Future

[@brodymullett2177]

I prefer the term "turd-cutter" personally

[@mindandbody7971]

So...I used google...and Jeff the LandShark is an actual thing. Ok.

[@Paur]

Glad someone's questioning their decisions here. I just have problems with people defending Krakoa and being fine with them letting whomever they want in because they are mutants, like fucking Sinister. Not that I don't get it, it's all an effort to stop the future destruction of mutants, but that was kinda another problem I had with this even with Hickman's premise, is that it felt like an attempt at a justified reason to embrace being mutant supremacists.

[@mmytacist]

I told you this was coming! Every issue will be a #1, just to suck in "collectors"

[@Spudcore]

Juicy dumper? Good grief, what a turn-off.

[@davidgalvez5341]

"Do you know where you're going to...? Do you like the things that life is showing you...?"

[@Firevine]

Ahh, but is Boom-Boom a grinder and pumper?

[@bsabruzzo]

I have no problem with a #.# issue. I prefer it to starting a story arc half way through an issue or in a seperate special issue. I mean where does it fit? Which do you prefer? 12, 13, 14, title: subtitle: special issue omega, 15, 16 Or 12, 13, 14, 14.1, 15 (I got two issues this month),16 Or 12, 13, 14, 15, wait... where's the ending to that story from 14? Do you still have that Supermsn in stocks? You didn't buy enough because nobody knew it was the end? Digital? Why do I want to get that issue Digital and leave a gap in my ollection?

[@brianbenjamin653]

It sounds like you guys didn't read the book lol.

[@jcoral1]

There's only one X-Men comic? News to me!

[@ComicsPerch]

Man I WISH there was just one book.

[@brianbenjamin653]

@@ComicsPerch lol I stopped after hox pox and didn't burden myself with the mess afterward.

[@tammydj9941]

Was a good talk gents. That's always appreciated. It just hurts the kid in me that cherishes the xmen being treated this woke way and knowing that this is being allowed by the powers that be, damn all the sale figures. The man in me says ignore it and don't give a rat's behind and move on (to other things if needed). Have a good day gents!

[@sahilhossian8212]

Lore of The Krakoa Era... and Joe and I wonder what happened? Momentum 100

[@gareckthetailor9918]

1:55 lol

[@illithidlore]

While I agree to a point, I disagree that they didn't need the villains. They had to show the world mutants stood united and that the "bad guys" were turning over a new leaf. Sinister was important because they used him to collect a record of mutant DNA. I would have trouble imagining them inviting Apocalypse and expecting him not to take some form of leadership role, better to have him with you. Shaw they wanted as a means of handling black market and underworld dealings. Exodus...yeah, no reason for him to be there.

[@drewtheunspoken3988]

I'm still waiting for the Perch video where he outlines the failures of Comics by Perch.

[@SAM-ru4vx]

AI spam for art. Is going to make mumbles obsolete.

[@Jiren261]

The inmates ran the asylum

[@nmj1937]

To the opening clip, I feel sad for anyone who thinks Stan Lee is a god.

[@ericw8478]

I swear your guest sounds like Adan Carrola.

[@cicolasnage5684]

Who is ADAN? ADAM carrola’s cousin or something?