Unspeakable: Bob Kane Stole all the Credit for Creating Batman

[@andrewthemandrewstudios5822]

Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if Bob Kane’s housekeeper actually somehow contributed more to Batman comics than he did

[@kyarabarrion4523]

🤣🤣🤣🤣👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@JONNYSORENSEN_AU]

Probably got them to respond to fan letters? 😃

[@Nocturne22]

If she turned out to be the one who thought up of the utility belt ("Like something I would use to keep all my cleaning supplies in all the time on the job, Mr. Kane."), it would make sense.

[@rydz656]

The last Batman he got to see was Batman and Robin.

[@mr.uncleg5307]

Right? Lol. He wasn’t being snarky; it was a Freudian slip and he listed all the actual creators.

[@Whitechapelchap]

That original sketch Kane presented to Finger was just Flash Gordon with bat wings.

[@gdhuertas07]

Frank Miller references the “Finger Memorial” in Batman: Year One. It was a lovely and snarky tribute to Batman’s true creator.

[@MutantsInDisguise]

And he forgot Kane for good.

[@varicosevaynes]

It made me really happy to see that too lmaoo

[@TheBonkleFox]

And then the brain worms infested Miller and he Wrote AS(S)BAR.

[@langreeves6419]

@@TheBonkleFox I Googled it and can't find the work you mentioned. Certainly love Frank Miller, really enjoyed both his Batman Year One and the recent Superman Year One.

[@theredshirts7245]

@@langreeves6419 all star Batman and robin?

[@bioswat96]

It's just sad that Kane haven't lived to the day where everybody knows who he truly is and how Bill got attention he deserved. Rest in peace, Bill

[@Jackferrett6781]

He’d still continue to claim soul credit. People like that don’t change

[@d36williams]

it seems like, he saw which way the wind was blowing. He wouldn't have threatened so many lawsuits if he did not

[@thegadflygang5381]

Without Frank Miller we would be stuck with cheesy dogshit

[@robbiewalker2831]

@@Jackferrett6781 Ian Flynn and Ken Penders are the Sonic equivalent of that.

[@Jackferrett6781]

@@robbiewalker2831 what did they do?

[@danielolortegui8422]

In the Batman: Year One DVD, there is a feature that has a lot of writers and artists trying to pay tribute to him and wind up just inadvertently trashing him

[@cameronsharpe6647]

hahahah ive got the exact DVD. Probably one of my favourite comics and animated movies to date

[@MarkLipka]

@@cameronsharpe6647 --- is that uploaded to KZbin anywhere? Link, please.

[@mrmacross]

Heh. Inadvertently, or intentional passive aggression?

[@ImTheKingOfHyrule]

@@mrmacross I think there are a lot of industry professionals who felt they didn't get the credit for something that they deserved, and Bob Kane has become an icon of sleazy businessmen living off of other people's creations while taking all the credit. For people who work in comics, it's a lot easier to sympathize with Bill Finger than Bob Kane.

[@fartkerson]

@@ImTheKingOfHyrule Man, that happens in almost every creative industry. I can't even tell you how many ghost illustrations I've created for other artists, it's kind of sad. I've done tattoo designs, tshirts, architectural renderings, band logos, video game design, even some KZbinr channel art. Heck, I also got no credit for the drumming I did on an album and the reason was because they used Pro Tools to alter my beats to the point that they deserved the credit, not me. Some stuff blows my mind, but most the time it's just an acceptable loss for the benefit of paying my bills. And it's not like I co-created Batman -- most of what I do is advertising shlock and promotions for nobodys -- even so, part of me wants to feel the pain that Bill feels, but the other part of me knows I'm just a cog in big ol' corporate machine. Cue Pink Floyd's Welcome to the Machine.

[@AgsmaJustAgsma]

Fun story: this past Christmas I gave my dad a Batman figurine based on his debut appearance, and I wrote on the gift wrap: "To dad, from Bill Finger". Needless to say, he was stoked by it, both the gift and the pseudonym.

[@stephensotelo1094]

I used to call my dad the Batman

[@nrgao]

This coming Christmas or birthday, give him another from Bill Finger, scratch it out and put Bob Kane 😂 actually, maybe April Fools works better lol

[@DIEGhostfish]

It;'s hard to say if his debut would be better, or something after they started getting more original. Y'know, not taking a Shadow pulp sometimes line-for-line.

[@vollsticks]

Cool dad!!!

[@christophermartin367]

@@nrgao chris

[@johnnymoon]

I saw an interview with Mark Hamill where he described Bob Kane as the penguin pretending to be Bruce Wayne.

[@KentaroMiyamoto21]

That sounds about right

[@umairashraf5167]

Nah even penguin has some class

[@josron6088]

Lol. That sounds like something Mark Hamill would say.

[@lucasoheyze4597]

Mark Hamill isn't qualified to comment on that

[@HOTD108_]

​@@lucasoheyze4597Who's Mark Hamill?

[@TheDukeofMadness]

I used to write comic book reviews for an online ezine back in the mid-90s, long before Bill Finger got hs deserved recognition. I wrote, just the once, in a review of a Batman comic that Batman was created by Bill Finger with help from Bob Kane. We received threats to be sued from Kane's lawyers if anyone wrote something like that again. I have always believed that Bob Kane was not a man of good qualities.

[@JONNYSORENSEN_AU]

Thats nuts. It was known in the 70s Bill Finger was the real deal when things started to become public then. The gall of the Kane estate or whatever. Disgusting.

[@shinbakihanma2749]

You'd still be lying, because what "help" did Bob Kane actually contribute to Bill Finger?!

[@rodrigomarcondes5857]

@@shinbakihanma2749 Kane helped with the name lol and Bill did the rest and still died penniless, poor guy

[@tomvu1470]

Finger, I believe also created “The Joker”.

[@eddiejoewalt7746]

@@tomvu1470 kane, finger and Jerry Robinson created the joker! but their accounts of the character's conception differ, each providing his own version of events

[@danwilliams1989]

I like to imagine that whenever any of those girls asked Bob Kane to draw something in public for them, he secretly had a tiny person hidden under his sleeve making the drawing for him.

[@blackpillmenace]

Not under his sleeve, it was actually a Pencil he kept between his legs.....LOL!

[@helrem]

Only a person?

[@Groggle7141]

​@helrem probably a whole studio hiding under his clothes drawing for him

[@RIVALContentJammerz]

The idea, the framework, is the originality. Changing the color and altering the wings doesn't even bring someone to "co" status. You're defaming a dead man so you have something to post.

[@AdahnFlorence]

Sounds like some shit Zach Hadel would come up with lmao.

[@gott2641]

It's ironic in a sense; in the comics Bruce Wayne kept his identity a secret save from a select few, while Batman's "creator" apparently couldn't keep it to himself if his life depended on it!

[@hunterkiller1440]

Well, what Bob Kane said was true from a certain point of view. He did create a character called Batman...just in name only.

[@Anth230]

Regardless of how much of an ass he was about credit. He had the initial idea and there would be no batman without him.

[@VanishedPNW]

@@Anth230 Not really. He even stole the idea from The Shadow and other comics (The Spider, etc)

[@ishotmyboss]

A certain point of view?

[@Anth230]

@@VanishedPNW Yeah I know that. But what comic doesnt steal from others. Look how many marvel and dc comics are rip offs of each other. Aquaman/Namor, Plastic Man/Mr.Fanstastic,Man Thing/Swamp thing.....to name a few...

[@VanishedPNW]

@@Anth230 I love Plastic Man so much. The original Jack Cole Police Comics. They're absolutely wonderful. Have you ever read them? I'll only push back on that one. I feel like Plastic Man was pretty original, although without Superman I'm sure he'd have never been written/drawn.

[@NineWhile9]

I met Jim Shooter Back in October at a convention. I told him a Friend Referred to him as the most under appreciated man in comics his Reply was I Will Never be as underappreciated as Bill Finger

[@comic-_-fanboy5414]

Bro that actually hurt my soul

[@thewkovacs316]

shooter really said that? guess he isnt as bad as i thought he was shooter isnt underappreciated. he was a very difficult man to work with

[@NineWhile9]

@@thewkovacs316 I asked him about alot of that pretty much everyone he had said nice things about for the most part he told me about almost firing Frank Miller and something diana Ross trying to play storm back in the 80s he also seemed to really love Stan. And spoke of him with the highest levels of respect but boy hearing him talk about Jack Kirby was something else. He was also a pretty Chill Guy I asked him about Some of The Stuff Said in the Comics Tropes Video he elaborated on Some of It Mostly about the Story Telling Stuff and admitted to being a bit To controlling. But he said he wanted the Books to have the absolute Best of Quality that you could get and he also told me he hates being Preached to. It really makes me question alot of Stuff That's been stated about him.

[@jjrbarnett]

@@NineWhile9 I read that Shooter had to make some financial decisions too as well as tighten the deadlines. So, people will talk.

[@Clay3613]

@@thewkovacs316 Shooter fought for his artists rights and healthcare. People were just upset about his deadlines and editing.

[@Draliseth]

The thing that kills me about Kane was how insistent he was that he created Batman. The way Stan would tell it, Kane couldn't so much as get a carton of milk without informing the sales clerk he created Batman. He created Batman in name, but not as we know him. He basically created Birdman with a bat-motif.

[@siouxsiexymox6594]

It's funny you quote Stan Lee because he literally did the same thing as Bob Kane when he stole all the comic book creator credit from Jack Kirby and Steve ditko and Joe Simon even the Allan Moore has said that all the marvel stuff was created by Jack Kirby and Steve dickel and Joe Simon and he said that Stan Lee was a delusional thief he really had nothing to do with the creation of the greatest marvel characters Stan was nothing more than a lousy editor and a credit stealing criminal

[@FancifulDancingStar]

@@siouxsiexymox6594 Stan Lee didn't take credit away from any of those co-creators. Bob Kane outright refused to let Bill Finger, Dick Sprang, etc. get any credit and constantly referred to himself as the sole creator of Batman, but Stan Lee was more than happy to have Steve Ditko, Jack Kirby, etc. be credited for their contributions and would often bring them up whenever he'd recount how a character was created. The situation's not even comparable, and it's terrible how often people seem to want to drag Stan's name through the mud.

[@siouxsiexymox6594]

@@FancifulDancingStar then why did Jack Kirby do most of the writing and illustrating yet he got only credit for illustrating it's well known by the marvel method that Jack Kirby did most of the work yet he only received half the credit Stanley should have got the credit of editor and Jack Kirby should've got credit for being a writer/illustrator but he only got illustrator credit that's cool I guess even Alan Moore called out Stan Lee 15 years ago for the liar and thief that he was Alan Moore is a much better writer than Stan Lee would ever pretend to be 😅🤣

[@demontiming3234]

@@siouxsiexymox6594 exactly, Stan Lee is cool but he definitely stole all of Kirbys fame

[@RahkshiMaster]

@@siouxsiexymox6594 Stan took too much credit, but he didn't take ALL of the credit. Is one ok and the other isn't? No, they're both wrong to do. Stan should have given more credit to the artists who were writing more than he let on... however, Kirby and Ditko were not very outgoing or charismatic, from a purely business standpoint, Stan Lee realized he was a far better face of the company, and that's what he became, the face of Marvel comics. So while yes, he should have given them co writing credits, I do not think this is the same situation as Bob Kane. Stan was honest about how dishonest he was, he would often say things like "I told this story so many times it might even be true" and he never pretended like Ditko or Kirby did literally nothing. Think about it, people credit Stan almost exclusively as a CO-CREATOR because he actually brought up the creators involved.

[@zedfirenze]

Him selling Seigel out and securing his own status in DC is one of the standout moments of this story. It’s already enough just betraying and stealing the creations of others, but backstabbing someone and effectively stifling the rights and progress of creators for years to come is truly something of note.

[@paulredgrave4448]

Ordered the Bob Kane Batman black and white sculpted figure from an Ebay seller last year, depicting our hero from the first origin story in Detective Comics #33. I was aware of what Kane did, or rather didn't do, but just liked the whole golden age look of the thing. When it arrived and I took it out of the box, I noticed there was a finger missing (these things are quite fragile). Was about to return my purchase when the irony of it hit me, and decided to keep it. God bless you Bill.

[@robertb.7772]

I hope that story is true, because it's pure gold.

[@paulredgrave4448]

@@robertb.7772 It's absolutely true Robert, and d'you know I wouldn't swap it for a "complete" one if you paid me!

[@SudrianTales]

@@paulredgrave4448 Please post a picture, I'd love to see it

[@paulredgrave4448]

@@SudrianTales Hi there, sorry, wasn't ignoring you. Not sure how I'd post a photo, i'm old...ish and not that digital. In any case it's the little finger on the left hand. A small enough flaw but one that would put most collectors off I guess. It's relevance just made me want to keep it. Maybe DC Direct should reissue it with a finger missing :)

[@SudrianTales]

@@paulredgrave4448 No problem and also I wasn't irritated

[@melon6444]

A genuine menace. The documentary that most people found out about this from (myself included) really didn't come close to capturing just how much of a cartoonishly evil villain this guy is.

[@robvangessel3766]

I knew nothing abt Kane until this video, ironically (if you look at it from Kane's pov) because I never paid attention to him. A unique figure in comics history, and in the worst possible way.

[@rawalshadab3812]

@@robvangessel3766 Sadly not all that unique in the comics industry. People have been scamming others out of their work for nearly a century. Hearing Ed Brubaker talk about how he got screwed out of being paid for his work last year confirmed that it still goes on at the highest levels of the industry,

[@themangoman9315]

@@rawalshadab3812 alan Moore has entered the chat

[@mr.c9820]

I wanted to comment on the viddy but you put it in words perfectly. BK was a moustache twirler

[@gapsule2326]

@@rawalshadab3812 not all unique in every industry...

[@batandjoefan8108]

The Hulu documentary you mention, Batman and Bill, is an amazing story of the tenacity of the writer/ investigator who tracked down a descendant of Bill Finger and was able to force DC to finally give credit to Finger.

[@craigcharlesworth1538]

I just wish Finger and the artists had had the guts to go on strike for a month and forced Bob to actually produce pages himself just so we could all laugh at how shitty they would have obviously turned out.

[@BenedictWolfe]

He would've gotten different artists to do the art and never worked with the strikers again.

[@craigcharlesworth1538]

@@BenedictWolfe It would have needed to be a co-ordinated effort, with all the other top freelance guys agreeing not to go into Kane's studio and scab. Force him to either produce the pages himself or hire really shitty freelancers who's work he wouldn't be happy putting his name to. Artists should know their value and it might have forced Kane to realise that all HE ever had was a vague character concept and a contract with DC, nothing of any real value. The real value was always in the guys like Finger and Sprang who were actually creative and talented.

[@fenixman2]

@@craigcharlesworth1538 Sadly thats just wishful thinking for the comics industry back then.

[@anderurteaga3707]

I remember a Batman script for the 1989 movie, that was apparently written by Bob Kane about how the character should be treated, but it was completely laughable, cartoonish, with the narrative and dialogue of an old porn movie

[@kryptoniterocks8245]

💯 Bob couldn’t even draw Bugs Bunny if he tried. He was a fraud plain and simple

[@staceymeans134]

He left out one detail. The name "Bat-Man" came from a Superman story of a race of Bat-Men (hyphen included) who lived underground. Kane even swiped the name.

[@MovieMush]

Whoops - don't you mean Finger swiped the name? Keep your lies straight, at least!

[@Puzzle_Dust]

The clown paintings part is hilarious 😂 that tells you everything you need to know. He clearly got away with claiming something he didn’t create was his once, then thought he would do it again with the paintings of clowns 🤡

[@DeVstatrOmga]

The clown paintings bit was hilarious. Bob Kane had such a massive ego. Personally, I’ll always credit Bill Finger as the true creator of Batman.

[@captainjakemerica4579]

Any true Batman fan should

[@rogerdominguez3691]

I agree. Bill is the one that should be honored

[@Prizm17]

I’m glad personally DeVstatrOmga will always credit bill finger as the true creator of Batman

[@richardranke3158]

I was glad that the opening credits for the TV series Gotham said,"Based on characters created by Bob Kane and Bill Finger."

[@captainjakemerica4579]

@@richardranke3158 Yes but that show actively craps on his creation the producers have never read a Batman comic book in their life the rogues don't predate Batman

[@majormoolah5056]

What makes the whole evil situation hilarious is that Bob Kane got the idea for the contract from his father, who was a successful lawyer. So Kane did not even invent the idea of ripping the others off! He is the ultimate example of a talentless man having all the luck.

[@heavysystemsinc.]

Mediocrity is celebrated high and low in the states, sadly. It's one thing to homage or be inspired by, but it's another to just swipe something and write your name on it. Kane was best at marketing himself, so you can give him credit for that. He was the Steve Jobs of comics (Steve Jobs invented nothing, he was just a good marketer himself).

[@majormoolah5056]

@@heavysystemsinc. Hey, there is nothing wrong with being a great businessman and promoter. If Bob Kane had done just that and accepted Finger as an equal partner and shared in wealth and fame, we would hail Kane for sure. But he was a schemer instead, who lied to others so much that he probably believed his own lies. And given his power, others just had to suck up to him. It is impossible to respect a man like that.

[@oldben101]

@@heavysystemsinc. - Same with Elon Musk

[@oldben101]

@SparrowEgg - no, you're the one misinformed. Look up "Debunking Elon Musk"

[@oldben101]

@SparrowEgg - you elon fanboys are so hilarious. 😂 No amount of factual evidence can change your mind, yet you go around telling anyone who doesn't agree with your delusions as being misinformed. How ironic

[@blackphoenix77]

I was so glad when DC finally added Bill Finger's name to the credits of every Batman related media; it's too little, too late, but at least he's finally getting the credit he deserves. P.S. Bob Kane was a putz.

[@KasumiKenshirou]

@Animated Audiobooks IIRC, DC was still bound by their contract with Kane to give him sole credit. It was only after Kane's heirs ALLOWED them to credit Bill Finger that DC did so.

[@blackphoenix77]

@Animated Audiobooks Oh I'm sorry, did I hurt the multimillion dollar company's fee-fees? I stand by my statement; It's too late for Finger to get compensation for Batman's success (maybe his heirs are getting something at least, if he has any).

[@MrJay-be9wh]

@Animated Audiobooks It was a lot easier to credit Finger when Kane passed because you wouldn't have to deal with him threatening legal action because he wanted to keep the charade up. The Kane heirs didn't care enough about the ego play and were cool with him getting credit as long as they still got royalties.

[@Peter1999Videos]

Stan Lee and Steve Ditko with Spider-man , same history

[@Ike_of_pyke]

Finger was a putz as well

[@joshuahermanson341]

Over 20 years ago I read the story "Batman: War on Crime" by Paul Dini with art by Alex Ross. At the foreword there was a dedication: "For Bill Finger, the REAL Bat-Man". At the time, I didn't know who Bill Finger was. So naturally, after reading that foreword, I started digging into to the name Bill Finger. What an eye opener THAT was...

[@speedracer2008]

I like how, as Chris finishes telling the story of Bob Kane's clown drawings (quotations around Bob Kane), you can hear him stifling a laugh, as he reveals that Kane never painted the clowns in the first place.

[@alejoparedes2388]

Man, I knew Kane had ripped off Bill Finger but I didn't know how much of a crook he was. This was very informative. And that Steranko story... amazing.

[@joedent3323]

Steranko is known as a teller-of-too-tale-tales.

[@vincentfranklin17]

Bill Finger added so much to the Batman mythos, it's incredible. Many of the concepts he thought up are still with the character today. I consider Bill Batman's TRUE creator.

[@johnhorne1839]

You do realize that just means he stole as much from The Shadow mythos. The more credit you tack on to Finger's name, the more blame you simultaneously add to it.

[@lion6379]

@@johnhorne1839 Isn’t that a bit ridiculous? Weren’t The shadow mythos creators ok with it? After all the shadow mythos did inspire the avenger, the spider, batman and etc

[@lion6379]

@@johnhorne1839 matter of fact isn’t the point of an idea is for it to spread and make more ideas more alike to its design?

[@johnhorne1839]

@@lion6379 Batman wasn't 'inspired' by The Shadow. It was cut-and-dry plagiarism. The first Batman comic was a near carbon copy of the Shadow story "Partners of Peril". It also happened to be one of the few original Shadow stories NOT written by Walter B. Gibson (which is likely why DC wasn't sued). They stole a hell of a lot more than the story, however. These videos go into more depth: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5XEoZiso9eibZY&ab_channel=SuperheroStuffYouShouldKnow kzbin.info/www/bejne/lX_dfoOKg6hmrpI&ab_channel=JustInteresting

[@VideoHostSite]

"True creator" my pet ass. God I hate people like you. Without Finger, Batman might not have had a cape. Without Kane, there is no Batman at all. Hey, why not claim that Manfred Mann "created" Blinded By The Light, since all Bruce Springsteen did was write the damn thing?

[@ROMANTIKILLER2]

Wow... I knew that Kane took more credit than what he deserved, but I didn't expect to be THIS bad! Basically, he was a very cunning entrepreneur, but no actual artist whatsoever.

[@BlueHooloovoo]

In other words, Kane was a charlatan.

[@nWoHollywoodTV-qk3bc]

Without Bob Kane, Batman wouldn't exist. But without Bill Finger, Batman wouldn't exist as we know him.

[@99Gara99]

True

[@quajay187]

Sure, but without Finger...Kane's 'Batman' would have no doubt faded into obscurity after a few issues.

[@bigbionk]

Without Bill Finger, Batman would’ve fell off in like a year💀

[@paulredgrave4448]

The other replies are very kind. I'd say one issue and done. That said, maybe DC wouldn't have even published it.

[@WCWFanForever]

You are correct on both yes without Bob Kane there would be no The Batman/Batman because he came up with the outline. Bill Finger gave us The Batman that we know and love today he deserved so much more.

[@geoffberesford]

The problem with habitual liars is that they eventually lack the capability of distinguishing truth from falsehood and end up believing in their own fantasies completely. I had personal experience of this condition when a girlfriend I was with for three years did the very same thing and once the reality had finally dawned on me about what had really been going on I was in total shock for quite some time. In fact, once the lying habit has gained a certain momentum it rapidly becomes a mental health issue.

[@creepingdread88]

He even used a fake name, maybe that was the start of his lies, Robert Kahn isn't on the comic books.

[@HOTD108_]

​@@creepingdread88Artists using pen names is a completely different thing. Don't conflate the two things.

[@GodLovesComics]

Kane's ego was such that he appeared on Stan lee's talk show and even Stan couldn't get a word in edgewise because Kane just bloviated about himself. In the end Kane seems the genuine villain that a lot of obsessive fans attempt to make Stan lee out to be. The difference is that Kane's collaborators such as Bill Finger and Dick Sprang, while known by hardcore fandom, do not have anything approaching the cult of fans that Jack Kirby and to a lesser extent Steve Ditko have. Plus Kane is only famous for Batman, while Lee, Kirby and Ditko have the entire Marvel Universe.

[@crithon]

wasn't the original batman comic have like 3 other smaller comic strips created by bob kane also? like poorman's Mafalda (I bring up Mafalda because there's a cameo of her in Suicide Squad and her comics are amazing when you translate them).

[@TheLobstersoup]

That's the conman's dilemma. He has to pre-emptively diffuse any doubts about himself, as to assert his position. In a way he had to become what he never was and to live a lie.

[@Bale4Bond]

You are correct, although one has to be cautios of Stan Lee's year long facade of "nice and cool grandpa". While he wasn't as much of a crook as Kane was, he shouldn't be put up on that high of a pedestal, as he currently is.

[@robvangessel3766]

I can't believe Kane's notion of presenting himself as a painter lay in an insipid series of clowns. He could have at least picked a better subject to hack out over and over.

[@OomaGooma]

Thanks for introducing me to a new word: bloviate

[@Spongebrain97]

I do like how after all these years it was the fans of Batman who uncovered Bill Finger as the character's main creator and who is now way more memorable

[@travismoore7938]

I watched an interview with Bob Kane were he explained how he came up with Batman. At the time, I was really young and really in to reading Batman. Batman was and is still my favorite superhero. I looked up to Bob Kane for the longest time. Later on, when I found out the truth, I was extremely disappointed. More than disappointed to be honest. Now, every time I hear the story about Batman's creation, I get angry for Bill Finger and the rest of those who helped make Batman special.

[@yuiitodoro7791]

Yess , I am very sad .... bill finger lived his life being broke ... I can't imagine how he got thro8gh life knowing someone as insufferable as bob kane is taking all his credit and boasting about it left and right, while he can't get any money to live even a normal life 😢

[@tomvu1470]

I visited the "National Periodic Publications" building in New York a long time ago. I had to use the restroom facilities there. Bob Kane took credit for my bowel movement there as well.🤣

[@jeremyallenglover6831]

I had always wondered if the villain Bane was named such as a nod to Bob Kane, now I believe that it maybe was, given information like this.

[@maarekstele2998]

Idk bane has talent and Intelligence and a drug problem lol does that fit kane?

[@TheRenegade...]

"bane" is an English word

[@elijahaaron6949]

​@@maarekstele2998also Bane isn't straight up evil

[@MovieMush]

No, the Bane reference is to a person being "the bane of my existence."

[@trublgrl]

There is something wrong with people who look upon life as a relentless pursuit of money, choosing to harm and abuse others who contribute so much to one's life as if the dollar in the pocket is worth more than friendship, loyalty, and respect. Money is cold comfort when you live your life as a fraud.

[@prehistoricturtlesaurus5309]

I would agree in sentiment, but unfortunately Kane was one of the very few of his era to have gotten recognition, financial gain and esteem in the comics industry. We have no reason to believe he didn't die perfectly content with his scumbaggery. Especially in his time, those less morally conscious people felt that wartime and hardship justified their dishonesty, that they were owed compensation for their bad childhoods... He'd be like a Donald Trump type. I doubt he feels a damn thing for his selfishness and corruption

[@williamwoxblom8417]

I don't think his ultimate goal was to earn a bunch of money. I think that it was all about his delusional ego.

[@shadowofbosstown]

99% of ppl are like this. Including you and most of the people you know I bet.

[@LupinticDream]

@@shadowofbosstown Sounds like someone's projecting.

[@PoliceTelephoneBox]

@@LupinticDream Sounds like someone is in denial.

[@FadeIn2Obscurity]

I legit just got done reading about how Bill Finger died in poverty while Bob Kane made millions off of this. Also Bob Kane’s swiping makes me physically sick the same way I get whenever I think of Greg Land.

[@ZiKoN22]

@@thedukeofchutney468 ComicTropes has an episode on Greg Land. Check it out! basically he does a lot of swiping and copy and drawing women very sexually......copying playboy pictures.

[@discolullaby5777]

And you know what, people still support individuals like Bob Kane because majority of people don’t actually give a fuck.

[@cha5]

@@discolullaby5777 I’d say it’s more a case of mass indifference to Kane these days, Regardless, the man was still a scumbag.

[@FrankLeeYoung]

Greg Land may copy photos and porn, but at least he did it all his own!

[@UniversalOpera]

At least Greg Land does the art himself. It’s something.

[@emilystewart6175]

I had to pause and laugh at the bit where Bobs angry fanzine letter said "I, Bob Kane", it has has the same energy as when I'm doing a Starscream impression and go "I, Starscream! Am now Leader of the Decepticons!"

[@davstrom]

I so have to put that into one of my supervillain's mouths!

[@breakfaith3031]

I, Bob Kane! Am now god of deception.

[@hongkongcantonese501]

This was one of your best presentations. I had never heard the Steranko story, and I'm sure many modern readers had little clue as to the depths that Kane stooped to.

[@Peer51]

I'd heard that Bill Finger wasn't fairly credited but the details have me feeling astonished. This was a fair, informative, entertaining video.

[@nemesis3587]

OMG, That Arnold Drake story is one of the funniest story I've ever heard, it is hilarious. Bob Kane could take every credit but in the end people learned real stories. We appreciate behind the ones who really are. It is good to see Bill Finger gets more recognition recent years. For me Dennis O'Neil, Neil Adams, Steve Englehart, Marshall Rogers and all the later ones shaped Batman I love today.

[@daelen.cclark]

Same here.

[@prehistoricturtlesaurus5309]

That McFarlane cover swipe... You gotta wonder if Todd was a combo of baffled, flattered and sore. It's extra hilarious because it looks so little like any other Kane Batman drawing. You'd think even after that much plagiarism you'd developed an imitation of "house style" and a little self awareness. Like "Okay, I'm only gunna rip off the dead and dying guys I built this house on so it looks like something from my era."

[@Enigmanaut]

I seem to recall McFarlane making a pretty big stink about it at the time, and it was perfectly obvious he was right. It was just downright swiped, and Kane just thought he could do it with impunity.

[@rockbarcellos]

Ironically though, Kane actually just repeated the exact same "method" he used when "creating" Batman by copying other people's artwork, staying true to his dishonesty!

[@ringokageyama6439]

I actually asked Todd McFarlane about his art copy from Year Two Bob Kane submitted for concepts of Batman 89 Movie during The Shrine "Brucie Con" in Los Angeles. His exact words were " He's Old, let him have it"

[@marilyn614]

Bob Kane was infamous for being late all the time too. I think Stan Lee had an anecdote about his dinners with Kane. On Kevin Smith's podcast, he told how Bob Kane and his wife were always an hour or two late to their dinners together, so Stan and Joan both decided to show up 2-3 hours late, yet somehow, they still managed to be there before Bob Kane.

[@ChrisConnolly-Mr.C-Dives-In]

I recall that story, Stan laughs it off, but that is not just a prank, that is either entitlement or wild disorganization on Kane’s part.

[@marilyn614]

@@ChrisConnolly-Mr.C-Dives-In yeah I’m pretty sure it was either entitlement or ineptitude too lol Bob Kane still an asshole!

[@ChrisConnolly-Mr.C-Dives-In]

@@marilyn614 no argument, only agreement.

[@Tallahassee21]

You gotta wonder, DC was able to sue Fawcett comics for what they called a plagiarism of Superman in regards to Captain Marvel(Shazam). They drained the company of funds through the lawsuit and DC purchased Fawcett in turn now owning Shazam. Their claims were based on the fact that he was a super hero with a cape and was strong. If that was the case,which i don't believe should've been reason to win the suit, then DC should have been sued by Street and Smith publications for literally shaping Batman into the Shadow clone he actually is. And had they been sued, would Bob Kane have been less willing to keep all credit for "creating" Batman.

[@joncarroll2040]

I'm amazed that Julius Schwartz couldn't tell instantly that it was Murphy Anderson who redrew the page since everything Murphy Anderson even touched looked like he drew it from the pencils up.

[@igorschmidlapp6987]

I miss the days of Julius Schwartz (the "creator" of the Multiverse)... And Marv Wolfman, "destroyer" of the Multiverse (I'll never forgive you, Marv (or your bosses)....:-P

[@TerranIV]

It's really sad how ego-maniacs like this can steal credit from others around them and yet suffer no consequences.

[@robd1329]

...tell that to Stan Lees corpse

[@vanjagalovic3621]

@@robd1329 Uh, Stan Lee always credited his artists and co-writers. Stand would need to have said that he himself created a bunch of character without the help of Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko.

[@vicentediez452]

@@robd1329 You got no idea what you're talking about

[@YaMamasAss]

@@robd1329 There's always one dumbass who thinks Stan Lee is like guys like Bob Kane lmao

[@SlapstickGenius23]

Was that similar for Walt Disney, Ub Iwerks and fellas?

[@ARMIV4]

Everytime I see Bob Kane's name as the sole credit behind Bat-Man, or honestly just in general, I wretch.

[@juanvazquez5036]

Jim Steranko is awesome not only for being a talented artist but also for bitch slapping Bob Kane as well.

[@jordanscott2858]

Too bad is he a Comicsgate and Trump supporter.

[@genegreigh8782]

Thanks for the update. Now I like him even more. (But just a little.)

[@hahahahaha288]

@@jordanscott2858 wait, really?

[@gabbar51ngh]

@@jordanscott2858 that's not really a bad thing.

[@TheMasterQuests]

@@jordanscott2858 You guys are acting like being republican is a bad thing its not where your from its who are you. I know plenty of republicans that aren't your stereotypical racist

[@dhawkes5096]

I remember reading (I think it was in "The Caped Crusade : Batman and the Rise of Nerd Culture") that whenever Bob "drew" live the linework had already been done on the paper by another artist and he was just going over what they did. It worked especially well on TV due to the low resolution at the time.

[@sleepytimeslump]

Kane’s rant about how he was the sole creator of Batman is very very reminiscent of chrischans meltdowns about him being the creator of sonichu

[@KAROSHIcomics]

Hence the saying in comic-book creating circles, “Don’t Get Finger’ed.” Love your videos , man!

[@HQ_Default]

I find Batman's creation kind of fascinating. It started with one guy just being like "YO IT'S A GUY WITH BAT WINGS" and then everyone else just kept elaborating on that.

[@YaMamasAss]

It's more like Bob drew a guy with bat wings, and then everyone erased that and started over from the ground up lol

[@MariaVosa]

An important story to tell - and keep telling. For all the criticism Stan Lee gets, he at least could tell good stories and conceive great characters. And while he blew his own horn a bit too much at times, as you said he did give credit to the team around him. Kane could have been the Lee of DC Comics if he had been prepared to think of himself as a team leader like Lee, instead being so desperate to seem like a solitary genius, (The clown paintings killed me...). At least Bill Fingers got his credit in the eyes of history.

[@pooddescrewch8718]

His sole talent was in grifting . Stan Lee was a talented editor .

[@anthonygarcia8749]

As well as writer

[@thaddeusmarcuscheeleyjr.786]

I'm absolutely torn listening to that Steranko story. 😂 I was emotionally invested in his retribution the moment he said Kane cuffed him at the last moment of the elevator door closing, like some kid waiting til school is over to hit you and then run to get in their parents car before you can react; as if you won't see them again the next school day. When he said he was looking for him the next day I was rubbing my hands like, "Ooooh boy! He's gonna mess up Kane's hairline when he finds him!" And Steranko did not disappoint.

[@H2oWENS]

This is an important story that must be preserved. Thank you for doing your part.

[@moyza_]

Funny enough, it took me years to learn this, because when I started read Batman, the Brazilian edition had a lenghty article talking about how Bill Finger shaped the character's look. This was back in 1987/88 I think. So since I was 8 to 9 years old I knew about Finger and find odd people talking about Bill Finger as some kind of obscure author that was rediscovered.

[@guanoguy4800]

I appreciate that Bill Finger finally got some credit. But Bill’s credit needs to be added to the older movies and animations. Bill should also get equal credit, not a lesser “with” credit.

[@BrendanJSmith]

I REALLY want the credits of The Batman to say "Based on the characters created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane".

[@ariesroc]

Where do you stop though? If it wasn't for editor Whitney Ellsworth the Joker would have been killed off as soon as he was introduced. Bill Finger created him then discarded him so the guy who really made him go was not an initial creator. Swiping Conrad Veidt's image from The Man Who Laughs is ok then as long as you like the result?

[@melaniey.5596]

@@ariesroc well.... fairness is everyone receiving their due credit. Considering how little creative input Kane had to the character of Batman, with Finger being most of the creative author behind Batman and a lot of the art being lifted or drawn by ghost artists, he really shouldn’t be considered the main author, and the respective comics should be credited to the respective people behind them (as is currently done where different people could be the authors of different comics of the same character). An editorial decision of not killing a character is not a big input, so while it should be mentioned, Robinson and Finger should be considered the main authors behind the original design.

[@razorwolfetheoriginal5385]

People have been trying to get Bill Finger a credit for decades. There have been numerous comic pros and various levels of people in power at DC that tried to get Finger credit, but couldn't because of Kane's contract, even after his death. The best they could come up with is the "with" credit after decades of trying.

[@eldenlean5221]

Walter B. Gibson should also have gotten credit. He creates Batman decade before keane and finger. He just called him the shadow. At least theres been crossovers so its something.

[@robvangessel3766]

Fleischer Studios. That's interesting. I remember reading that Jack Kirby was originally an in-betweener for Fleischer's Popeye. The studio seemed to be a launching point for future comics artists.

[@cormano64]

Wow, that's one hell of a curriculum aside from what Kirby already accomplished in later years. Fleischer studios' Popeye is an animation masterpiece.

[@Nazrigar]

Considering that both Marvel and DC were originally New York based, and at the time Fleischer Studio's was one of the biggest animation studios? It only makes sense that a lot of future artists cut their teeth their. Animation basically forces you to study motion, pose and how to draw people and animals. It also makes me smile how animation and comics have been intertwined for so long!

[@trublgrl]

Ridiculous. Jack Kirby was originally a baby. It would be years before he got a job at Fleisher.

[@robvangessel3766]

@@trublgrl He was ORIGINALLY a baby? That's not unique, is it?

[@trublgrl]

@@robvangessel3766 No, everyone was originally a baby. But babies are unique. Except for identical twins. That was a joke, by the way.

[@jameshaley8162]

This is reminds me of two other Creators "Who Created Star Trek?" Gene Roddenberry was not the sole creator of Star Trek in many ways. You can read in this script or that, how a series writer added things that stuck to Trek. Nimoy's Vulcan salute, for instance. Writers have added to the Trek legacy over the decades, but very few of them receive a credit. Roddenberry, I read took credit for several things he had very little to Nothing to do with. One of those was writing lyrics to the TOS theme. By doing this, Roddenberry received half of any royalties, taking away from Alexander Courage share. Courage would Not work for Gene after that in anyway. He was not the only one. On one script by Robert Black, I believe, Gene took complete credit for it. This of course led to a Giant rift between them. Black would come in to his office at the studio, do what his contract would call for and when it was quitting time, he was gone, he did not and would not contribute anything else to Trek. A good read is Harlan Ellison's The City on the Edge of Forever. To hear the Trek staff speak of it at that time...the late 1960's, Harlan barely had ANY thing to do with it. A good read. Now Gene DID write the pilot episodes, he did create the characters, but much has been added. He did pitch various Trek projects and such and he was not above taking credit for something he had Nothing to do with. And believe it or not...Roddenberry was probably BETTER that Bob Kane in almost every respect of 'his creation'. The world believes that Thomas Edison was a genius, maybe he was, He did take credit as inventing everything that came out of his labs, whether he had anything to do with them or not. Ask Tesla. Edison is credited with creating (inventing?) The Think Tank. He hired many smart, talented men who knowledge and ideas of their own. And yet..its Edison's name on the product. Like Bob Kane, Edison and Roddenberry did make it happen and were selfish with any credit that could have helped that person achieve more in those industries. Your video reminded me of Roddenberry's Trek through Hollywood and Edison. But yeah, I had heard only about Bill Finger, none of the others. What Bob Kane, Gene Roddenberry and Thomas Edison did and didn't do to was unforgivable.

[@thomasffrench3639]

Honestly comparing Roddenberry to Bob Kane is a insult. He definitely had a huge portion of the creative input, where Bob Kane is just a hack

[@jamestyer8294]

Stan Lee did the Same Shit!

[@KingSandvich1]

Don't forget Lucille Ball's important contributions to Star Trek.

[@jamestyer8294]

Stan Lee did the Same Thing

[@jamestyer8294]

@@thomasffrench3639 No the Point is that all of those so called creators who didnt do much of creating Characters or TV series Take so much Credit and Fame then the real ones who should be credited for the hard work

[@jimbartimo9090]

I met Bob Kane in the 1980s at a Boston University event honoring him as a political cartoonist. Back then few knew about his connection to Batman but I persisted in asking him about it and he clearly wasn’t proud of it. In fact he even complained that he never thought he would provide work for Cesar Romero (who played the Joker on the 60s TV show.) I don’t know how it relates to the accusations in this story but he definitely wasn’t bragging when I met him. Strangely I met Adam West many years later but was too star struck to think about what Kane said.

[@leftcoaster67]

Jim is one hell of a fantastic artist. And I give him kudos for slapping Kane. That is epic.

[@perlarsson9463]

Oh man Chris, this was a great video. I had no idea that Kane even swiped art in the Dec 27. This is almost a sad portrait of a man seeking glory above all else. Just great work as always Chris!

[@SuperiorGothBun]

I’m so glad more people are starting to realize how much of a pos he was. It’s unfortunate that out of the golden age creators to ever get credit for their creation, it was Bob Kane. Bill Finger was honestly robbed

[@D3wd20p]

Shit rises to the top. It's a tale as old as time.

[@robd1329]

@@D3wd20p ..look at Stan Lee. He rose to the top due to Jack Kirbys work

[@hulksmash8159]

@@robd1329 ...and Steve Ditko, and many others.

[@IJLook]

@@robd1329 Since Stan was always paid by Marvel I don't think he would say anything to cause them grief . I think Stan made the comics and Marvel more appealing to the readers.I wonder how much of what Stan is blamed for was done because of Martin Goodman.

[@robd1329]

@@IJLook who is martin goodman?

[@maxtonflexwell9248]

As a child growing up it always seemed like Bob Kane portrayed himself as if he was Bruce Wayne/ Batman, but we always saw him as the Joker!

[@libRteedude]

I actually get why Jim Steranko would be so annoyed at Kane. Steranko was a friend of Walter B. Gibson, the main writer for the Shadow magazine (he wasn't technically the creator, since the Shadow debuted on the "Detective Story Hour", but he invented all of the things about the Shadow that people remember like the playboy identity and the dual pistols). While Will Murray and Anthony Tollin's research proving Kane ripped off the Shadow didn't come out until the late 2000s, there are quotes from Gibson that show he was aware of the plagiarism, and I have no doubt he would've told Steranko about it. The fact that he only slapped Bob Kane is actually pretty mild considering how much Bob Kane ripped-off the Shadow and didn't have an ounce of Gibson's creativity.

[@oliverortiz8507]

I saw the great documentary, " Batman and Bill." It was good and I was happy to see that Bill Finger get his deserved credit. Your video was a great addition to the whole story and cleared up many things that other sources have not. Well done and thanks for spreading the truth about Bob Kane.

[@danguillou713]

You are so kind and charitable. I’m truly impressed at how you retain the capacity for understanding and giving credit to someone showing this level of comic book villainy. Keep talking comics, and I’ll keep reading ’em! Cheers

[@oneangryhermit]

I had read somewhere that Kane’s dad had accompanied him and was instrumental in getting him such a good deal. Edging everyone else out.

[@jadenbryant9283]

thats not schocking

[@DashingPunkSamurai]

This channel is phenomenal. Can’t believe it took me so long to find it.

[@LordRaptor]

I was always under the impression that both Bob Kane and Bill Finger created Batman, because I first got into Batman and shortly afterwards comic books in general in the late 90s to early 2000s as a kid, where I believe Bill Finger would get credited most of the time.

[@fartquaviasdingle7876]

He was credited in the Arkham Games as well, although I only remember vividly seeing it in City.

[@coolmuzt]

@@fartquaviasdingle7876 The only Arkham game in which Bill was not credited was Arkham Asylum, if I remember correctly.

[@fartquaviasdingle7876]

@@coolmuzt Alright yeah that makes sense

[@SirMrHowell]

When Steranko slapped Kane, did the word balloons read "POW" or "OUCH"? I really love that story.

[@piggybank386]

Pretty much like the Batman slapping Robin meme

[@YapsiePresents]

The OC is Kane's idea but everything else including the design, backstory, powers is "borrowed". Heck the only thing to credit is the name lol

[@modernwarrior24]

I think he was a pychopath or some sort. He truly believed simply because he thought up the term"bat-man" that means he literally made everything.

[@HeadmasterAutobot]

Even the name is just BARELY original, accounting for "Partners of Peril."

[@JellyFilledEmpanada]

I mean was there never an (animal)-man before him? Lol

[@JakobKaine_BrickJAK]

I mean, honestly, he probably didn't even come up with the OC. Look up the pulp character, The Black Bat.

[@Carlos-xz3vi]

@@JakobKaine_BrickJAK The Black Bat came out atvthe same time as the first Batman comic. There were multiple lawsuits between the 2 I believe. There was a prior character named just the Bat created by the same person who created El Zorro, which probably influenced both characters.

[@prehistoricturtlesaurus5309]

One of your best Vids Chris. This made me angry to watch. Much about Kane I had already known at least tangentially, but you going through things chronologically really sends it home how absolutely crooked Kane was. We had definitely aught to start crediting Finger as Batmans creator.

[@alexlennen]

that intro is just beautiful

[@LikaLaruku]

I love your little biography stories on the people behind the comics.

[@gamezharks]

Bob Kanes real talent seems to be being on the hustle, pulling a fast one on DC like that.

[@fusionspace175]

Batman and Bill is a terrific documentary, and very interesting as it gives a lot more information about the history of comics from a specific perspective.

[@StevenRLegge]

I’ve always enjoyed the Steranko anecdote, although he’s always been the author of his own legend so who knows to what extent that really went down.

[@mcgee113]

It's crazy that most people don't know this and that Finger wasn't given credit for so long. Finger made Batman the way he is, changed the design and character to the beginnings of what we know and love today. If it was Kane's vision that stuck he would have been in red spandex, blonde hair with cardboard wings! Also Kane got all royalties and his family still feed of it today.

[@spencer2745]

When I watched the Batman and Bill documentary on Hulu and in the end when Bill got the respect he deserves I cried. Personally I think the comics should say creator Bill Finger with the help of Bob Kane and not the other way around

[@leolizard3152]

I never knew this, I knew Bill Finger worked on Batman but I didn’t know he had that big of an impact. Looks like the dude created everything Batman is now known for

[@PharaohDom]

Glad more people are learning this sad truth. He isn't the first or last co-creator to be majorly fucked over by their partner and publishers.

[@4thofEleven]

That pompous grave never fails to make me laugh. Even in death, the most important thing to him is making sure nobody, even for a minute, doubts that he created Batman.

[@tediousmaximus1067]

And his constant reference to "God" on his grave is sickening.

[@joaquinwaters1810]

We all know the truth now. My only regret is that Bob didn’t live to see his lies exposed

[@MrJay-be9wh]

@@joaquinwaters1810 Tbh if he was alive, there's no way in hell Finger would have gotten the credit. People knew the story when he was alive, especially all his peers. He knew that all those people knew and he knew the stories were out there. But legally he had everyone in a quandary.

[@francomartini4328]

I was born in London in 1956 but British comics like Beano, Dandy, Eagle, etc., never appealed to me. There was always a lot of American stuff on TV that I watched as a child, mainly Hannah & Barbera cartoons such as the Flintstones, Yogi Bear, Huckleberry Hound, etc. but then when I was about ten years old two TV shows that made a huge impression on me began showing, the Monkees and Batman. Shortly thereafter I discovered a newsagent near my school that stocked American comics. I began with Batman and Superman but after a short while ditched DC for Marvel, which I much preferred. (I think Prince Namor the Submariner, as illustrated by John Buscema, was the first character that I got into, perhaps because he was something of an anti-hero.) Soon I was collecting every issue that I could get my hands on starting with Captain America, Spider Man, X-Men, Doc Strange, Daredevil, you name it. Not that it was all superhero comics, I loved my Mad Magazine whenever I could get hold of a copy. By the early/mid seventies I was ready for something a bit more grown up (plus I was into the collecting scene in London) so I got into Warren Comics and their fantastic reprints of EC Comics stuff from the 1950s (Eerie, Creepy, Tales from the Crypt, Vampirella, et al.) and particularly Will Eisner's the Spirit. I rediscovered DC when Robin was ditched and Neal Adams reinvented Batman as "the Batman". DC also introduced Swamp Thing, probably their best ever character, to challenge Marvel's Man-Thing. Marvel also tried to break out of the costumed superhero straitjacket with Howard the Duck, a Steve Gerber creation, as was Man-Thing. However, after that point I basically lost interest because everything "new" at that time, e.g., Black Panther and Ghost Rider, seemed really uninspired and a boring rehash or really faddish like Master of Kung Fu. So, from that point on, I concentrated on filling in gaps in my collection (such as trying to get all 66 issues of the original X-Men) and on finding stuff by my favourite artists such as Neal Adams, Jim Steranko, Frank Frazetta, Frank Brunner, and Burne Hogarth. As I have stated, I was never really into the sixties Batman and Robin, particularly since there were more pages of 1950s reprints in each issue than there were pages of new story. I was also less than impressed with the quality of the artwork. However, one thing that I _was_ impressed with were the covers. As I recall, throughout much of the sixties Carmine Infantino did a series of striking "mystery" covers that really aroused the prospective reader's curiosity. What lay between the covers was usually mundane dross but by that time money had changed hands and a sale had been made. I would be interested, assuming such a thing exists, in acquiring a book that compiles all those Infantino covers. Does anyone know whether this has been done?

[@emekaabuah6029]

I appreciate you making this video. I think it's important for people to know how big of a part Bill Finger played in the creation of Batman. Give credit to whom credit is due.

[@WHACKCOMICS]

I wish I could've been a fly on the wall when Steranko slapped Bob Kane. my god

[@thewkovacs316]

ya, but not really sure why steranko went out of his way to note kane's birth surname. many in the industry, especially those of jewish descent, had to change their names to be accepted

[@Clay3613]

@@thewkovacs316 Khan is more associated with Far Eastern descent.

[@dlee827]

When the film Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice gave credit to Bill Finger as the co-creator of Batman (the first official recognition?) that drew a lot of cheers from comic buffs who knew the background. For many years, Alter Ego magazine has also been making the case for Finger's role as co-creator.

[@artbythecoco]

Well before mentioning it on Twitter, Steranko gave a more abbreviated version of the slap tale in some TV documentary on comics (History channel, I think). Hearing him tell it is even better than reading it, because that dude has serious Italian-uncle-you-don't-mess-with energy.

[@sethcopeland4362]

Dial B for Blog (rip) had a great exposé on the origins of Batman, the final chapter called The Haunting of Robert Kane. The evidence of Partners in Peril, Flash Gordon, all of it, is overwhelming. Bill Finger and Gardner Fox did all the heavy lifting in the earliest stories. DBfB did a great piece on Steve Ditko's contributions to Spider Man as well. Sad they're gone.

[@e5h8x3]

I just wanted to say your channel is amazing man! I don't get the time to read comics enough to cover all the lore out there but your channel covers some really interesting topics as well as the coolest stories out there!

[@Kitsaplorax]

Don't forget about "The Black Bat" who also had influence on Batman. There was a bit of back and forth between these two character's artists and writers.

[@mariod1547]

Interesting enough that the Black Bat has an origin story similar to Two-Face and Daredevil

[@JONNYSORENSEN_AU]

Source?

[@Kitsaplorax]

@@JONNYSORENSEN_AU kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5Szo6yBnaZqqJI

[@benlogan430]

I was wondering if anyone else remembered The Black Bat? And I’m not a comic guy, but I remember stuff. It proceeded Batman I do believe?

[@Carlos-xz3vi]

@@benlogan430 The Black Bat did not preceded Batman. From what I have read both hit stands at the same time (same year Perhaps?). There is a character that precede both, The Bat, created by the guy who created El Zorro.

[@KenPurchase]

Seems like Bob Kane was a pure grifter who just happened to luck into a never-ending revenue stream despite having little talent, while being canny enough to orchestrate things so that he would do as little work as possible but still retaining all the credit. It's funny/sad that even in the early sixties Batman comics they'd still have correspondents discussing "Kane's" artwork in the letters pages, when at that point his hand hadn't been near a page since the forties.

[@spacemanx9595]

He got lucky he lived before the internet.

[@heavysystemsinc.]

@@spacemanx9595 Nah, not really, this thing still happens. Take Elon Musk for instance. He doesn't know one damn thing about how his cars work, he just threw money at a team and told them what he wanted, but he still walks around getting all the credit. Most of his Space X team is ex Nasa folks who have experience with such kinds of things, but Musk is put on a pedestal cause he's wealthy or whatever. Or how about Steve Jobs who famously conned Wozniak into making Pong and kept his half of the bonus Atari gave him...and the fact Steve didn't actually know all that much about computers in the first place. Yes, there are Bob Kanes all over the place. You needn't look very hard before spotting one.

[@right_hand_power7960]

I agree that still happens regularly. Another example is how in casual conversation, DOS gets attributed to Microsoft, when it really was created by IBM. What MS did do, was create a gui (graphic user interface, pronounced "gooey") "shell" on top of the operating system DOS, that they had purchased from IBM. In addition, to my knowledge, neither Jobs nor Gates were college graduates. (Too many co.s today run by people who require college degrees for working at those co.s, although the people who started said co.s have none.)

[@heavysystemsinc.]

@@right_hand_power7960 College graudation status isn't really necessary when talking about their 'achievements' which are purely business oriented. I'm probably not the best person to talk about computer history with as it's kind of my thing, but if you're down for campfire story, please read on... So back in 1977, 1978-ish time frame, Xerox Parc, a research department that was allowed to experiment with new technologies and develop new technologies for use by Xerox for their 'office of the future' came up with quite a few inventions, one of which was the GUI. I'm a nerd and am into this stuff and there's a lot of 'side quest' stuff attached to it, but for sake of brevity, I'll leave that stuff out. The GUI part is important. The mouse paradigm, which was invented and shown off in 1968 by Douglas Englebart (who also invented a typing system that did not gain widesupport and made the modern computer keyboard obsolete as well...) who also showed off a GUI system for the first time, along with technologies you'd see later in Skype, Zoom, etc. Xerox folks working in the Parc labs were looking for ways to bend these ideas for Xerox to use in future office spaces, but Xerox management had no idea what any of this stuff had to do with the office (according to accounts from folks working in these departments). At any rate, the GUI developed by Parc was actually shown to Bill Gates and Steve Jobs at the same 'open house' event in the late 70's. Both Gates and Jobs had seen it with very different intentions of it's use for commercial/consumer products, but it was Jobs who went a different path by developing a system from the ground up to be that kind of interface (the Mac)...meanwhile, about DOS... Gates and Microsoft were already making bank on translating BASIC to a bunch of machines and licensing them out in very parasitic ways in which the royalty checks from the licensing basically were growing the income of Microsoft greatly. There was another player no one knows of unless you're into computer history (from the American side, at least...other countries have their own incredibly detailed histories of computer tech, btw!) was Gary Kildall and CP/M. CP/M was DOS before DOS and ran on a variety of systems before MS-DOS was even a thing. There's multiple different accounts of a 'fateful meeting' between IBM and Microsoft/Bill Gates, but the distilled version is that IBM was interested in CP/M for their new 'off the shelf consumer computer' that was in the works. According to popular lore, Gary Kildall was very much also living a decent life from CP/M licensing and all that, the same way Gates was enjoying success from BASIC licensing and porting. Gary's CP/M was an actual operating system, BASIC, not so much as it was just a programming language that could fit on a chip slapped into most computers at the time. So IBM was interested in an operating system and wanted to contact Kildall about using CP/M and the lore was that he was out flying an airplane or driving a car Ridge Racer stylee through the hills of Northern California, etc...he was basically enjoying himself when IBM came knocking. Bill says he suggested to IBM to go to Gary for the operating system because he just wanted to continue his BASIC empire, but since Gary was out doing extreme sports, and his wife didn't want to sign an IBM non-disclosure-agreement with their representatives, they instead went BACK to Bill Gates who then literally promised them an OS he didn't even have. So what does Bill do with an agreement to IBM to deliver an OS that doesn't exist? He made a Kane-style deal with another fellow, who's name I can't recall, but I'm sure relevant google searches will reveal, who ran a Seattle computing firm for their 'Quick And Dirty Operating System' or QDOS. His team made a couple of small changes to the source code they bought for a couple of grand and sold it to IBM with some Kane-like strings attached. Gary Kildall had found out about this and immediately tried to sell CP/M to IBM, who accepted, but had no idea that Microsoft/Gates had already lowballed any competitors in that they could sell MS-DOS for a fraction of the cost but ALSO got to sell it themselves, which is what IBM went with because they just needed an OS that worked out of the box. This let Microsoft sell their MS-DOS now backed by IBM as a platform as a separate package for large cash and CP/M's deal was *exclusively* with IBM, which meant it was more expensive. Obviously, the cheaper package won out. So then fast forward a couple of years with Steve Jobs working on the Mac. Originally there was the LISA, intended for universities etc. because of it's price point (and frankly corporate sales are the first place at that time for most American computer companies...sell to large structure, get a contract, you're set for millions of dollars vs. trying to go against Commadore and other cheap computers with your higher priced machine, etc...another story for another day). Bill Gates knew the GUI was the future of computing because he and Jobs had seen the same demo at Xerox Parc. The LISA went to market first, failed immediately, but the groundwork for GUI based system had already been done, so at that point Steve was like, 'Let's downscale this to compete with IBM prices, let's go.' And then a year later, Mac is *barely* on the shelves. Meanwhile, Gates having the backing of IBM is seeing that his text-only system is likely going to fall by the wayside in someway, and so this is where your account of the situation comes in where he builds a (shitty) GUI on top of DOS and it stayed that way all the way until WindowsNT, which eventually became Windows XP and finally Vista, etc. The DOS he purchased all those days ago is still buried in modern windows, though it's finally going away as new Windows is moving toward a linux based system (ewwww...linux?! :P ) and Apple...well...they're Unix based, which is already Linux but from Bell Labs, also another story... So there you go, campfire story comment version of the history of modern garbage computing..just a couple of dudes trying to out screw each other but in the end, the best ideas didn't win, the slimiest businessman did. As an aside, Gary Kildall died in 1995 and most folks close to him feel Bill Gates lead to his personal downfall. His company was far more advanced in many ways compared to Microsoft but he had personal principles that, to him, Gates did not have. His death was a tragedy brought on by alcoholism and his love of aviation. You can put those together however you want, but all personal accounts paint Kildall as a far more cynical person after the IBM deal was 'stolen' by Gates. He was the Fingers in this whole thing.

[@JONNYSORENSEN_AU]

Its amazing national/dc honored that legal agreement for so many decades even they knew it was bs. They clearly didnt want to get sued or pay royalties to Fingers family. Just like the whole Superman debacle.

[@Wiki1184]

Really ironic how much this type of thing happens in an industry that writes about superheroes.

[@gabbar51ngh]

That's because comic book industry is mostly dominated by work for hire. Wouldn't be surprised if this gets extended to prose novels. Take a look at how writers are hired to write new stories for James Bond in novels. To develop an IP this is common.

[@wellesradio]

@2:08 You mistakenly say Bob Kane worked for “Bob Iger Studio”. It was the Iger and Eisner Studio”, founded by Will Eisner and Jerry Iger (and not Fred Iger, no relation, who later co-owned DC). Bob Iger, nephew of Jerry Iger, was CEO of Walt Disney after Michael Eisner (no relation to Will). That was the “other” Eisner/Iger studio you may have heard of. Interestingly, according to CBR, Bob Iger read about the “Golden Age Eisner & Iger” in the paper one morning, and was amazed by the coincidence. He was had never heard of it before, and he wrote a friendly letter to Will Wisner: “Dear Mr. Eisner, My name is Robert Iger. I am the president of the Walt Disney Company. I just read about you in the Los Angeles Times and was intrigued that you were a partner of my great-uncle, Jerry Iger. It is very strange that there is an Eisner and Iger now - Michael Eisner, chairman of Walt Disney, and myself, and there was an Eisner and Iger then. What an interesting coincidence." The two later spoke over the phone and this sparked a cordial relationship; the two spoke on and off until Will Eisner’s death in 2005. On another tangent, the thing about Batman “not having superpowers” wasn’t really the selling point in the early days. Let’s face it, no hero ever really needs superpowers to begin with and it’s been this way since time immemorial. The heroes of old who did have godlike powers were usually cursed or marked by them in some way. Perhaps they were indebted to gods or hated by the gods for those powers. A hero beats the villains simply because the storyteller wants them to. So Batman was never unique in that sense. When Superman came around, the idea of a hero with “super” powers was revolutionary. It led to a seismic shift in what heroes could be. The idea that Batman is unique because “he doesn’t have powers” doesn’t strike me as unique. Neither did The Phantom or The Shadow or Doc Savage or Dick Tracy or Tarzan or Sherlock Holmes.

[@ReaperXC]

I didn’t realise this wasn’t well known until the documentary. I took it as a given along with Lee taking the vast majority claim to creations and ideas over Kirby and Ditko.

[@thedukeofchutney468]

Comparing Stan Lee to Bob Kane is extremely unfair. While I do think people put Lee on a bit of a pedestal, I think it’s shockingly disingenuous to call him a crook as well. People have started saying that Lee didn’t do anything and just stole credit from Ditko and Kirby, which is just false. By most accounts Kirby and Ditko were rather hard to work with (especially Ditko) and more introverted. Stan was a likable extroverted writer and salesman. Furthermore, Stan spent all of his time at Marvel and never switched companies, so he was usually the one greeting fans and doing interviews naturally making people associate the characters more with him than with Kirby or Ditko. We also have to remember that both artists could be pretty bitter, with Ditko quitting tons of books just because people criticized objectivism, even in jest. And Kirby at one point claimed the he created Spider-Man even though literally everyone agreed that that’s one of the only characters he had nothing to do with. Finally, contrary to popular belief he did usually credit both artists. While there were some times he said less about them this was often times when they had split off from Marvel and were working with a different company. It would be bad business to talk about them, in depth, wether you think that’s right or wrong. To conclude a lot of the supposedly “pro” Kirby/Ditko side is less pro Kirby Ditko and more anti-Lee. I think one person who knew all three (although I can’t remember his name for the life of me) said it best: “I love Stan! Stan is a really good guy… he’s just not necessarily a great one.” Does Stan get a bit much credit? Yeah. But was he anything like Bob Kane? Absolutely not.

[@KasumiKenshirou]

Ben Cooper sold a "Spider Man" Halloween costume for several years before Marvel's Spider-Man made his debut. Some people believe that Jack Kirby worked for Ben Cooper and designed their Spider Man costume, based on a rejected pitch he had done for a comic book character called the Silver Spider. None of this can be proven though, as the Ben Cooper company no longer exists and their records from that time are no longer available.

[@joneshugh]

@@KasumiKenshirou IIRC they worked out a deal w/Cooper

[@johncole015]

I've always found it telling that none of the creators that claimed Stan Lee ripped them off ever came near the same level of success when they were no longer working for/with him.

[@Wexter0083]

@@johncole015 That might be true for Ditko (Spider-Man is a big act to follow), but Kirby did some insane work for DC after leaving Marvel. I just think Stan is a great idea guy and really enjoys writing stories that are fun and relatable for readers. While Kirby and Ditko wrote darker more out there stories that are a bit harder to relate to.

[@DocLathropBrown]

Glad someone has said it. I can't tell you how many interviews I've seen with Stan where he firmly credits the people he worked with. For example, in interviews about the Silver Surfer, he tells the story of how, during the Galactus saga, Stan got the pages back and saw Kirby had added a silver guy flying around on a surfboard, and came up with the idea of it being Galactus' herald. That's Stan, right there, admitting Kirby came up with a character. Now I will admit that in Stan's mind, whoever came up with the ~initial~ idea is "the creator," so he did feel he was the proper creator on many of the Marvel characters--but he never denied when others came up with ideas that added to the mythos. Unlike Kane, however, if others wanted to be considered or credited as co-creators, Stan didn't object. Lee even signed a notarized letter authenticating and granting Steve the title of 'co-creator of Spider-Man' before Ditko left, just to appease the whiny bastard. Kane actually would try to squash out anyone else from getting credit for Batman. Ditko and Kirby eventually had axes to grind, and well, people on the internet love a bad guy. Stan was nothing like Bob Kane.

[@magencrisis1682]

The reveal that he didn't even paint his own damn clowns made my jaw fall to the floor OH MY GOD LMAO

[@lssjgaming1599]

I know this is a Spider-Man quote, but it’s pretty much how I see Bob Kane with his plagiarism and stealing credit for the characters his ghost artists created: “He’s a thief, a criminal, a menace!”

[@dangalfthedruid]

Very respectful and careful walkthrough of the history, but I love your title. Really perfect

[@TheNcc1701xyz]

This is a really good dive into the mythos of the creation of Batman. Thanks. One thing, with the blurry video it made this hard to watch - pretty sure it's not down to my cataracts!