Commander Hot Takes | EDHRECast 246

What are the most overrated cards? Can you over-optimize a deck? This week we share our "hot takes" for your EDH edification!
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[@MrPhyCycle]

I do love how your hot takes became very politely worded, reasonable observations.

[@TheMegaMagikarp]

My hot take is we need an EDHRec After Dark with Dana savagely spearing Redditors like it's post- Avacyn Restored standard and Searing Spear was going after Thragtusks

[@williamfolkesson944]

Yes, I’ve never known I needed something so much

[@KC_Enthusiast]

Please yes

[@sethhines3744]

I've always wanted another Dana Roach podcast, not a huge fan of his co-hosts on CMDRcentral.

[@IneptCardCollector]

Too hot for Twitch lol

[@StevetorCG]

I love how you guys care about the game experience of everyone at the table. This is exactly what I want from the EDH community.

[@bryceosborne4357]

Agreed! I try to build decks I think my specific pod would like to play against because if I'm the only player having fun oops actually no one is

[@okgut2033]

Got also a hotpocket take: most people play too less cards that makes them giggle or at least smile from one side to the other side.

[@GaianEntertainment]

I think Bojuka Bog is the only card that forces me to hold back a smile/giggle on its' own. Other cards are dependent on board-states and a hope that it doesn't change enough to prevent the fun payoff a card provides. Bojuka Bog followed by a bounce-land, when another card is already out letting me play two lands per turn... That's a fun way to lose a game lol. If I'm going to lose anyway, I'm going to do everything I can to take *_everyone_* else down with me.

[@facelessgames94]

Absolutely. Giggle score should be a thing. Even if they only giggle because they so happen to be in a certain deck. Example, I have an Etali deck with 25 ramp pieces and no win con. But I REALLY enjoy every ramp card because they do extra things. Slamming down a spinning wheel(?)(eldraine) is much better than a sol ring

[@stephenbradford8524]

Optimization on different axes... that's probably one of the most useful things I've taken away from an MTG video in a while.

[@garagavia]

It's a good takeaway

[@dr00ness]

this is a wonderful way of phrasing it. a lot of people get caught in one axis of efficiency at the expense of others at times

[@mathimus55]

It’s something I’ve been thinking through for a while now. I’ve thought about putting my whole thought process ling from somewhere in an article but just need to do it.

[@brendans1983]

Frontiers can only be explored once before they're no longer a frontier. Well said 👍

[@c.r.bledsoe9322]

Hot take: your deck doesn't always need more removal, you just don't know how to use the removal you have effectively

[@rileypowell5354]

Also it probably needs more removal.

[@escapegrass]

Removal spells are amazing, threat assessment means that you get more mileage with them. You get more mileage regardless of how many you have. But if you have more you can abuse the mileage more.

[@Imoman3113]

Regarding scooping: Played a pick up game with a buddy and a stranger. Buddy exclusively plays aggro. Stranger is playing giant spell slinger. Buddy builds a huge board with enough power to alpha strike the table by turn 5 or 6 when stranger plays glacial chasm. Buddy gets so mad and scoops saying no one should be allowed to play cards that keep you alive unless they can win that turn because waiting isn’t fun. Meanwhile I didn’t care, I lost in 3 turns anyway it’s not that long, and I learned “hey play a few ghost quarter effects if that’s something I need to worry about in my deck” Really find the l mindset that “you have to play aggro or I hate you” to be super shitty and I am disappointed in buddy tbh. Talked to him after but he won’t change his mind. I’ve had one or two experiences with ragequitting and they are all like this so I don’t have a good opinion of rage quitters. (Quitting when you can’t win or going to the next game because it’s not fun is different, I’m talking ragequitting and complaining)

[@jameskirkland6916]

The number of people on untap who scoop to the first wrath is real

[@jkattack2640]

Here's another take Winning is based actually. Id much rather the game end "early" and we can shuffle up again that get trapped in a long grindy game where no one is afraid to take any risks or feels bad about taking opponents out. Don't feel bad about winning. Its what we came to do

[@danaroach29]

I'm not sure it's a binary though. I totally get how sometimes a game ends early and you just shuffle up and play again. But if every game ends early, then a whole swath of commadners and decks become unplayable. Maybe that's fine for some people, but there's a lot of folks who'd like to actually play their commander that has a MV higher than 2.

[@Crawver]

I never feel bad about attacking. I do however feel bad if I have a window to kill a player, but the other two are still pretty healthy so I can't close it out quickly. I'd much rather bring all players down relatively evenly to try and then take out all three in a turn or two. Though my main deck is quite good at doing that. Might be harder for other decks to run that philosophy admittedly

[@EdBurke37]

My hot take is that this content deserves to be engaged with.

[@chasm9557]

My rule of thumb is that if I watch the full length of a youtube video it's getting a like, and if I feel like I can say something constructive about the discussion then I type a comment.

[@TuetchenR]

Started watching this channel a few weeks ago beacuse of that shuffle up & play epiosode. yall are a great bunch eith awsome chemistry.

[@pauldyson8098]

Dana's love letter to Midnight Clock starts at 11:30.

[@styfen]

MTG Arena's Alchemy format has Rosco; who spawns clocks, and he's absolutely dominated the format. People were absolutely sleeping on it, but not anymore because Rosco highlighted how powerful it is.

[@WMDistraction]

My thoughts on that segment are basically that it’s not a conversation if you can’t then make an informed decision from it.

[@WMDistraction]

My thoughts on that segment are basically that it’s not a conversation if you can’t then make an informed decision from it.

[@Huckleberry_Sid]

Really enjoyed this episode! The points about optimizing decks for things other then power or win conditions were great, and I loved, loved, loved the point about not feeling obligated to play games that aren't what you're looking for. Coming from 40K, so many people seem to end up having a bad time because they don't take the opportunity to have a pre-game chat to establish expectations. It's crazy to me that people are willing to spend an hour or two suffering through a bad game experience but wont take 5 minutes to just establish some expectations before starting the game. Keep it up lads!

[@mathimus55]

I’m glad it was helpful for you. It’s a thought I’ve been working myself through for a whole, it’s good to hear that it resonates with others.

[@elliotthood1719]

I wholeheartedly agree with the 3CMC ramp thing, but I see where they’re coming from. The CMC of ramp is extremely important, especially considering your commander and strategy. For example, I cut a bunch of 3 mana ramp like cultivate and kodama’s reach in my Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle Sea Monster deck for a bunch of two mana ramp and it made it run 30% smoother.

[@WMDistraction]

Coming from the other direction, I run a couple 4 mana ramp for multiple lands because I care about hitting 8 for Maelstrom Wanderer.

[@nickhughes8179]

​@@WMDistraction Do you run Skyshroud Claim? That one can get Breeding Pool and Stomping Grounds.

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

It’s too broad to be categoric about it since some ramp is very good at 3. Harrow is basic ramp at 3, but it turns one tapped land into two untapped basics, making it fantastic even without landfall.

[@callumarcher8111]

Saying ramp is bad if its 3CMC is saying that Cultivate and Kodama's Reach are bad because they cost 1 mana too much and that's a scorching hot take if ever I heard it. Plus there's some pretty decent 3+CMC mana rocks that have added effects that aren't bad by any means.

[@NerdByAnyOtherName]

One helpful way of thinking about 3 MV ramp, particularly rocks, that I wish more people would use rather than the tired "efficiency" arguments, is to flip your perspective on what the card does before analyzing it. By that I mean that you should stop thinking about Midnight Clock as "an inefficient rock that makes up for it by letting me wheel" and start thinking about it as "a delayed wheel that gives me time to preemptively dump my hand out while also tapping for mana in the meantime", and similarly Cursed Mirror is "a temporary hasty clone that turns into a rock at end of turn instead of being sacrificed", in the case of land ramp, think about how something like Kodama's Reach lets me push the potential issue of missing land drops a turn into the future where it will likely not matter as much. I run Patriar's Seal in my Araumi deck because it allows me to untap and reuse my commander, the fact that it also happens to be a mana rock if I need it to be is just gravy, and I run Decanter of Endless water in my Sythis deck because I draw a bajillion cards and so having redundancy with "no max hand size" effects is handy, and if it helps me cast something later then that's great

[@troylambert1601]

My opinion on 3 mana rocks comes down to mulligan enforcement. If your group is strict on mulligans 3 mana rocks become a failure point that's hard to justify. If your group let's you mulligan until you get a 3 land hand then it's all gravy.

[@JJMickeyMusic]

Reminds me of Matt's take on expensive counterspells like Spell Swindle and Access Denied

[@brosam_]

Yeah 3 mana rocks are absolute gravy in some aspects, especially Decanter of Endless Water and Chromatic Lantern. I run decanter in my Arixmethes deck and it's amazing with all the card draw I'm doing through stuff like Tatyova and Aesi

[@nickhughes8179]

I still run Commander's Sphere in 2 of my 3 decks. It replaces itself. Patriar's Seal and Honor Worn Shoku go in any deck where your commander has tap abilities as they'll buy you an untap. Darksteel Ingot is very useful in boardwipe heavy metas and decks like Zurgo Helmsmasher and Piru the Volatile. Decanter of Endless Water is another copy of Spellbook, Thought Vessel and Reliquary Tower for draw and Spellslinger decks. Pristine Talisman goes nicely in lifegain builds, and drain decks like Asterion and Vito the Dusk Rose. Chromatic Lantern goes in any 5c build and 4c non green builds. Burnished Hart sees play in non green monocolor control builds and budget decks. 3 mana rocks aren't unplayable, they just need the right homes.

[@AlexAndrews]

Discovered you guys recently and just wanted to say how much I enjoy your discussions - fun, insightful and eloquent. Thanks so much guys and keep it coming!

[@Siegorius]

It's official, Joey has joined the Dad joke side of the Force

[@eulefranz944]

48:00 this is a great point! That is also why I love *Ivy gleeful spellthief* the design is SO GOOD! The effect is weird, niche and even then you can take the deck in various directions: mutate, enchantress, instant/ sorcery single target cantrips (feather like style) and most of the time you will have a mix of these strategies in your deck but the amount of combinations are endless

[@Boblol126]

My take: people should stop uploading decklists of unmodified precons

[@Gweezy12]

thank you

[@jonathanfagerlund976]

Right?? It's bizarre to me that anyone would do that.

[@Booi-d]

I think it should do that

[@ry7hym]

💀people still do that? moxfield literally has all the precons on their site by default

[@jermthemicrocosm]

OMG YES

[@Isabelle-ve9oq]

I remember the days on command zone would comment about getting 2-3 playable white cards per year. As a white player this was horrible. I prefer it now. Well stated point Dana on how discovery has been lost.

[@claytonsmith1906]

My hot take is Armageddon is a fun card and a legit strategy if you use it as a win con. If you use it and the game goes on for a year that is a problem.

[@newdarkcloud]

Something I like to say is "Don't play powerful cards if you don't want your opponents to use them in turn." I like to play the occasional theft deck, and whenever my opponent groans when I reanimate their Avacyn, my immediate question is "Why are you playing this card if you think it's miserable to play against?"

[@vincent-antoinesoucy1872]

Playing your opponent stuff is the best way to play most exactly the the table power.

[@mofomiko]

I have a codie deck built around copying and stealing and some other ways to get permanents out, at one point I Clone Legion'd the gishaths players board and somehow I was the bad guy. The deck does pack some shenanigans that irritates sometimes, but I still found it hilarious that everyone groaned at my simple cloning

[@masterowl123]

aint you fun to play with

[@robertmonroe7930]

From my perspective, people tend to overreact to stealing a thing, not because they think their own cards are miserable, its that they feel like you stole their fun. That was the cool thing they wanted to play with, and not only have they been not allowed to play that card in their deck, but its staring them in the face helping you win. Personally, I dont care about steal but have had a marchesa steal deck and have had many conversations about it.

[@newdarkcloud]

@@robertmonroe7930 Marchesa is one of my two steal decks. It gets... reactions

[@mikepetrangelo5396]

You guys are quickly becoming my favorite edh content, I agree with so much of what you guys say. My hot take is that people need to run more Artifact and enchantment removal. It is mind-boggling to me how people in a mono red deck refuse to run unstable obelisk or meteor golem because they think that there is never gonna be a time where someone plays an enchantment that only they are going to care about. This is bad logic. You should always prioritize interaction.

[@Matiassanita]

the thing with those cards is the mana cost, 7 is a lot of mana. i do agree that people should run more interaction in general, i did just that and started to win more games and had more interesting interactions than just playing mi things hoping nobody turned their hate at me.

[@me12345635]

I miss battle cruiser style commander. I have some decks that can hang witch cEDH decks, but honestly I have way more fun at lower power levels cause I see & use cards that don't usually make the cut & it's honestly an amazing time & brings back the "kitchen table magic" feel for me.

[@NightOfCrystals]

I couldn’t agree with you more. At my weekly commander hang last night, one of my friends had to look at the Burnished Hart in my casual Prossh deck to read what it did. 🥲 I want to play my cards that “haven’t been good enough” since 2017/2018 and feel good about it!

[@williamgressman4001]

Here is my hot take, commander is better enjoyed when you treat the game more seriously and try to win once the game has started. I am not saying that you have to make CEDH decks, in fact my point has nothing to do with deck building, build whatever deck you want, but once the game has started do you best to be strategic and make optimal decisions. There are very few things that make me salty in games, as they are just games, but one of the few things that does is when my opponent voluntarily gives up an opportunity to win. If they missed it or legitimately thought they couldn't that's cool, but when they know they have the win and pass it up it makes me feel like we are no longer playing the same game anymore, as effectively anything that happens after can be disqualified later with the thought that they already had the win.

[@Huckleberry_Sid]

Sounds like you need to provide more clarity about what you're looking for in your pre-game convos if you're getting salty over how your opponents play.

[@williamgressman4001]

@@Huckleberry_Sid Not really, if they acknowledged they could have won and voluntarily prolong the game, I simply concede, because by their own admission the game we were playing is now over.

[@Huckleberry_Sid]

@@williamgressman4001 This still sounds to me like you need to be clear with people that you're looking for people to play to win, and that you'll concede if they prolong a game they could have won. Sometimes people have reasons for prolonging a game. I just recently played a game where a player deliberately prolonged the game because they wanted to see their alternative win condition play out for once. Everyone at the table was happy to do so because we also wanted to see it play out and we were all in it to have fun. Ultimately, you don't have control over other people or how they are going to act or behave. Why bother spending energy getting salty about something you have no control over? Just be clear with people about your expectations for the game, and if they don't agree to those expectations, find another pod to play in. It just seems like this is a situation of your own making, and you could opt to not have those experiences if you were deliberately clear about wanting everyone at the table to try to win as best they can.

[@williamgressman4001]

@@Huckleberry_Sid Let me be clear, my salty is simply being done with a game, my emotions about a game are very short lived. secondly, almost all games that have the capability for victory expect you to go for that goal, therefore it is the norm and it is on the person intending to break the expected norm who has the obligation to speak up.

[@Huckleberry_Sid]

@@williamgressman4001 Then you're not really expressing a hot take. You're just saying you get salty if people don't go for the first win condition available to them and will concede from the game instead of letting that player go for an alternate win condition that might take a little longer. If someone did that in a pod I was playing in, I'd probably never play with them again. If you're ONLY in it to win as efficiently as possible maybe you should be playing cEDH instead of EDH.

[@MrBrawler65]

I started listening to/watching the EDHREC podcast about a week ago and watch about 20 episodes. And 1 I love Matt and dana's dad jokes and Joey's reactions to them 2 I've seen Joey on several different shows and I have to say he's my favorite person in the MTG space/content creators :)

[@tildukeball]

In the past, Dana mentioned prefacing games with “I have an ABUR dual in here, but it’s not that kind of deck.” Now that they’re pulled, he doesn’t have to worry about raising eyebrows for playing one land worth the average deck’s total price.

[@avinashkai6604]

Mana Barbs is a way better solution to green ramp than mass land destruction.

[@redbirdriot]

I always love having the input of your three on EDH, it's some of the best content and discussions on the format around. I know I get annoyed when people try to tell me what I should have done, or even worse, "you should really run this card instead" and it's format staple #48. I can only imagine how bad it is when your gameplay is livestreamed or recorded. A good reminder for me to not be that guy myself. Also, definitely gonna go find some copies of Deglamer, thanks Dana! That's a really cool one, especially with lots of indestructible gods still running around.

[@LunarWingCloud]

I agree about the idea of so-called "auto-include" cards. There's so many "good enough" or even "decent, but not 'staple'" cards that should be looked at in different decks because you will always get the end result you want out of that card. For example, the card Lofty Denial is just a good counterspell in decks revolving around flying matters. You don't need to run Counterspell et al. in every blue deck because some blue decks have access to better versions of that effect. Metallic Rebuke is incredible in decks centered around artifacts, for example.

[@JJMickeyMusic]

My maybe-hot take is that players need to stop treating optimization as indicative of power level, and that powerful cards account for unfair matchups far more than someone having a more optimized manabase or removal suite.

[@dozi3r]

I agree!! dont get mad at my synergy, get mad at the fast mana and tutors.

[@vincent-antoinesoucy1872]

I feel like it's fair to be kinda mad agaisn't ancient tomb and free mana removal if you are not into that stuff, but yeah that's a resonable take, you can't get mad at someone for having the right mana, removal and boardwhipes (outside cyc rift).

[@troylambert1601]

With my own playgroup, yes, at my lgs against someone I don't know well? The mana crypt guy gets all of my interaction directed at him.

[@danaroach29]

I’m torn; I wrote an article a few years back doing some analysis, and optimization was in fact an indicator of power in a lot of ways. But it’s just an indicator, meaning a deck with a Scrubland was way more likely to have a Vamp Tutor, cEDH rocks, etc. But that doesn’t mean you’re wrong too. Correlation doesn’t equal causality etc.

[@JJMickeyMusic]

To clarify my take is more about my frustration at the 'one size fits all' nature of power level scales that focus on things like 'how good are your lands?' over more relevant details like 'can your deck cheat a high amount of creature stats onto the board early?'

[@PawzBrownMTG]

Very nice points made Gentlemen thank you guys. A lot of people feel it's hard to walk away when other's are wanting something else. Great video

[@jasonholmes5714]

I remember some advice I heard on Jim Davis’s channel (go check it out if you like non-commander MTG content; he was also on Shuffle Up & Play) to always assume your opponent knows what they’re doing and to use that assumption to try to figure out why they’re doing it. Assuming you know best can bite you, both in a game and out of it.

[@EPICLYFATALERROR]

Loved the healthy and balanced dialogue on printing for CMDR and exploration of the Format. Mature nuanced views.

[@Crypt4l]

Hot Take: Precons are easy to beat with things that just goes over the top of creature board stuff, since they generally don't play enough interaction do meaningfully interact with the gameplan of other decks.

[@fsaavedrap]

My friends are all obsessed with ABU duals and I keep telling them they are just not that good to justify the price.

[@jonathanfagerlund976]

Part of that may be from an investor standpoint. From an efficacy standpoint...in cEDH, how often do people actually lose from combat damage? Is the two damage from that Shockland ever going to matter? Nope - it sure isn't. I run a Tropical Island in my 6-7 power Kumena deck just because I can. I'd be the first to admit that it's unnecessary - and objectively pretty ugly as well. Lol

[@ellahazan-fuchs7249]

Last week I had a game with someone who is known to build unfun decks. He brought his new deck, and I asked if it's another unfun deck. He said, "no, I just wanted to play this silly commander from Legends". Well, on turn 5 playing my sacrifice deck he played Teregrid. Then the turn after he played Windfall. I left the table when he tried to claim "it's just some value". When I last looked at the table he had Narset, Parter of Veils with Teferi's Puzzle Box out. I do not feel bad whatsoever for leaving a game which was not the game I had agreed to enter.

[@mryoso31]

Thanks for the good vid. The truth is, most of newer generation Commander players opt to build around "win more" deck techs compared to the pre-Commander era EDH where most decks doesn't rely on power cards but more on themes and what makes them more sociable on the table. Which I prefer. I can't really say on the western or european regions on what their meta is, but here in my region (Philippines) most people here have Cedh mindset where even the simple casual tables have combo win cons.

[@ContainsMultitudes]

There is a thin line between being considerate of the tables time and just bullying people into never playing things you don't like. It's fine when its hard locks and MLD with no wincon. But people will try and legislate out decks with too many counter spells or "too much ramp" and that's probably a step too far.

[@kyleellis1825]

The cards are printed and legal, why can't people use them? It wasn't fun playing against blue for years but we didn't change the color philosophy/remove the color. It's never fun playing against black and it's discard/kill everything strats, but that still gets printed each set. I don't like wasting my time with a short game where I don't feel like I got to do anything. Why does the other person enjoying a fast game take priority

[@ss3nm0dn4r8]

@@kyleellis1825 so instead of a short game where nothing happens its a long game where nothing happens think about it for 2 seconds

[@kyleellis1825]

@@ss3nm0dn4r8 When I design my deck for a longer game, stuff does happen. For me at least, because that's how I set up. My point is, why does any one person's enjoyment take priority? I like land destruction. It's a way to remove resources and stop decks from getting out big stuff. Yeah it's stupid when people have no win condition after blowing up the land, that's like putting discard in your deck without discard payoff to finish the foe. But if my deck is 30% one drops, I am taking advantage of the land destruction. People don't like Mill/Discard/X effect, why is it only land destruction that is soft banned from every playgroup? We have a bucnh of cards that get stuff back from the graveyard, put them in your deck instead of whining when I blwo up your forest, or just build a better land base in general.

[@jkattack2640]

Here's my "hot" take. Basics are severely underrated by the community. They dodge a lot of random hate and having a lot of them is frequently very valuable. They even come in untapped. People really like mdfcs because it feels like you dont have to make a compromise but honestly i think for most of them an ETBT and missing land type is a bigger drawback than im willing to pay. Basics good. Play more basics.

[@mofomiko]

Add to that, that everything and their Grandmother fetches for basics. Very easy and cheap way to fix your colours. Sure things like shocklands are nice, but I think the return is inversely exponential to what you have to pay for them - especially in the commander format.

[@fluffbot3000]

I love basics! and when im deck building i dont count mdfcs towards my land count, its just a nice emergency option if im mana screwed

[@mygodsnameiskyle]

Really loved this one. Only the second pod I have listed to from you and you seem to run the same kinda game I want to play. "I hate your deck" is a pod I can't get behind. I am enjoying. Keep it up!

[@felipeguidolin1055]

My hot take is that playing at a lower power level is more fun... That are no free counters, no fast mana, no stax, plenty of 3 cmc mana rocks, plenty of pet cards, less need to play staples, more commanders are viable options

[@mekelius]

This stuff is why edhreccast is such a positive and enjoyable thing to listen to. So much of the content out there is just so so negative. I just want to hear people being excited about cool cards, but in a realistic and experienced way.

[@eveninghat8715]

Talking about the deglamer vs natures claim thing I could definitely see why the added utility of being able to hit indestructible artifacts could be seen as a draw to deglamer, but ultimately I think it's more about how the deck wants to play that matters. If I'm playing a big stompy deck that wants to utilize most of my mana on my own turn I would find nature's claim to be a lot more desirable as I'm less likely to have two open mana than I am to have 1. SImilarly, if I'm playing a deck that wants to do most of my things at instant speed I think holding up deglamer at 2 mana is almost inconsequential as if you don't end up casting it you are just going to do what you were going to do anyway. I think more people should try out deglamer and see how it works though as it's a very strong piece of tech and I'm excited to try finding some decks to try out more myself.

[@shadowedpast]

About the ABU duals, I forget they exist sometimes, mainly due to price obviously but there's so many other dual lands that you can play for a fraction of a price

[@dreddbolt]

I like the idea of the wild west frontier games... ...where one guy has the bling'd out tank of a deck which could be traded for a used car, someone's playing group hug with secret group slug, one's playing an unassuming value deck with explosive win-cons, and there's the one dude who acts as the low-budget agent of chaos to wreck shop with a dredged up shopping cart of a deck worth a fraction of the gilded god deck. Sometimes too many expectations and excessive voiced concerns homogenizes the experience. Sometimes the right spice is being blissfully unaware of how a game will go and figuring it out as you go along.

[@wonkyboy]

my hot take is to stop running more than a couple of tutors if you claim to be playing a casual game. embrace a bit more variance.

[@Wadacup]

Gamble is the best tutor for this purpose lol

[@samuelhowarth9994]

I agree with every take. Here's mine: the RC has never missed. As far as I'm concerned, they've had a perfect track record. Even when I disagreed with them in the moment, I was wrong in hindsight.

[@danaroach29]

I think them briefly enabling Un cards back in 2016 or what we year that happened was a mistake, but that’s pretty small potatoes. They’re pretty dead on most of the time.

[@samuelhowarth9994]

@@danaroach29 wait, that happened? Lol, slight revision to my take, but that's really funny from 2023.

[@joefjunior]

A way to reintroduce exploration into your deck building is to pick novel/interesting constraints to build with.

[@danaroach29]

You can also just slot it in. After the Dom United reprint it's like seven bucks 😜

[@cfrydlewicz]

Another thing critical commenters don't consider is that sometimes there's editing involved we don't see. Perhaps someone caught a mistake and had to reset the board to a previous state and that portion was cut from the final version. The players may still have some previous information that's no longer accurate in the back of their minds. Same goes for if they take a few minutes off for a bathroom break. The KZbin final videos are also much shorter than the game actually is. Every play is so much clearer to that audience than to the players involved. And, of course, the benefit of hindsight. There are thousands of "incorrect plays" that end up getting no comments because they just luck into being good because of what happens after. Results-based thinking is misleading. It's just useless feedback in dozens of ways.

[@DrexSinister]

My take is that "Staples" like Rhystic Study, cyclonic rift, Smothering Tithe, and Sylvan Library can hurt your deck building more than it's helps. They're fantastic cards but I feel it can lead to less creative deck building and then an over reliance on those very powerful cards. Taking those out encourages digging deep and finding synergistic ramp and draw for your decks that is very rewarding.

[@SamuelKacerik]

Those cards get you killed and make your deck boring. So I agree.

[@okgut2033]

Those cards (and alot more) are cedh staples. That powercreep is not needed for casual and will get you down unless you go all in, but then why dont you start playing cedh?

[@dakodastevens8972]

My hot take is that people play too much ramp or advocate for too much ramp in general. Don't get me wrong, I think ramp is important, and I think the vast majority of decks should have it, but I think your average deck would be better if 2-3 of the ramp spells were replaced with card draw spells. They help you hit your land drops/ramp spells and are not dead draws late in the game. I also think decks like Edgar and Millicent, that just want to curve out just want a lot less ramp then most other decks, I'd you want to be spending your first 2-3 turns proactively playing creatures, ramp is much worse for your deck.

[@JervisGermane]

16:26 Y'all said a few things I disagree with, but this is the one I wanted to respond to. And I think I can do so fairly, as I don't think I've ever left such a comment. Armchair quarterbacking is a thing. Spectators of competitive events (meaning contender vs contender, not in the sense of cEDH) are going to have opinions about how the participants acted and how they might have done it better. I don't think it makes anyone a better player, but it's an essential part of being an engaged viewer for many if not most people. Heck, the reason the ASOIAF books are so compelling is because they're written in a way where we can speculate about how else the story might have gone. That's not a sign people think they're smarter than you. It's a natural byproduct of having other people care whether you win or lose. If you're going to play in front of an audience like a football player, you're going to have your performance criticized like a football player. The difference is, I don't know how many football players read comments sections and feel bad because armchair quarterbacks think they could have done better. Y'all are just generating some sideboard commanders and don't know how to handle it yet.

[@kyleellis1825]

This a a channel about people teaching people to be better at something. So when the audience sees their "teachers" make a mistake and they catch it, it feels like a massive victory. It's not that the fans think they are smarter in general. It's that they were smarter for that one second and are excited about it. And why can't fans armchair quarter back, that's what the entire channel is, telling people how to play the game better. Their comment about "don't assume you're smarter than us" basically says that they think they are smarter than the audience.

[@IcySpork]

Should have called this episode “Challenge The Status Quo”

[@VinceOfAllTrades]

Hot take: Eminence is only a problem because there aren't enough cards with it. If they printed more new cards with it, plus added some generic color-specific options to retrofit onto existing cards, it'd be a popular option. (Personally, I like the idea of Imminence effects coming with deckbuilding restrictions like Companion cards)

[@matiasrochaix2234]

I have a hot take about content generators: many don't make enough research before having an opinion, not to mention the negative takes some make, there is a tensión between making a channel grow and encouraging your viewers a good game experience. It is not your case guys, but is very evident in some others.

[@MTGJosh]

As a content creator I couldn't agree more on the haters moaning about misplays. We're all human and we all make mistakes, it's just some people can't see it. Great videos guys!

[@rustyrowan7068]

I got to admit I am working on some of these behaviors myself and trying to better social player

[@toastytcg1282]

hot take for me is people are so desperate to be efficient they leave out high cmc cards that will actually increase the decks consistency or add a powerful wincon and will sometime just end up throwing out a bunch of mana rocks with nothing to cast now and then die to that person dropping their 8 drop beater that has some powerful etb or evasion stapled to it and then cry about "my decks so efficient how did I lose to that"

[@jasonritner9662]

Oh man, the discussion about setting healthy boundaries and being willing to walk away from a pod is just good advice for anything in life. It is perfectly fine to disagree with an approach to something and to walk away from a situation you're not comfortable with. Healthy boundaries is not a hot take.

[@jeremybrackett4124]

I have a Spirit of the night deck. All mana rocks are good mana rocks when the commander costs 9. Especially things like dreamstond hedron and coveted jewel that also draw me cards. I’ve also legitimately killed people in both standard and EDH with some keyrunes. Hot takes: Keyrunes are underplayed and are bangers.

[@wolfyace5150]

Targeted Land Destruction is fine, also feel that things like Path to Exile and Imprisoned in the Moon could count as ramp in certain deck (while staying removal from mid game on)

[@CaptainDB-MTG]

You guys are awesome! Keep up the great work boys!!

[@zwolf4118]

I watch magic gameplay for the enjoyment and to see different interactions that I've never thought of and how to incorporate them in my style

[@jcstaff1007]

Relic of Legends is easily the best 3 mana ramp out there right now.

[@baconsir1159]

I don’t disagree with the point about 3 mana ramp, but I get where it comes from. There are so many terrible/bad Manaliths you see in precons and whatnot that I understand the distaste. Cursed Mirror and Midnight Clock are great examples of good 3cmc rocks, along with Crowded Crypt and Skyclave Relic to name a couple. Not sure if Gatewatch Beacon makes the list, but it’s at least worth testing in Superfriends I think.

[@EnRandomSten]

Actually had that tutor thing happen with my golgari deck. I started out with something like 8 - 11 different serchers and tutors in the deck and not only was it very boring time wise, it was a real chore to constantly go into the deck and try to find the card that would be best for that turn every time. Now that former meren deck has been turned into a gyome chef deck and its my dear baby.

[@cassiemay2397]

To support Dana’s last take, I used to have a naya MLD/landfall deck that ramped a lot then blew up all the lands then use splendid reclamation effects or indestructible effects to make it one sided

[@Spirited_skiing]

My hot take is that giving opponents resources in any deck (including non-political decks) is good frequently enough to run cards that benefit your opponents. Secret rendezvous, jailbreak, and Skullwinder are incredibly good cards and the reason that they don’t work for people in metas outside of super high power and cEDH is that people are picking the wrong players for the benefit. Archenemies are a real thing in commander, I feel now more than ever in my 7 years of playing, and helping your opponents find answers to spend their mana on benefits you because you don’t waste your mana on it.

[@barryhatchel]

Legends are so prevalent I think it's past time for board wipes that specifically target legendary permanents to be printed.

[@callumarcher8111]

Urza's Ruinous Blast in reverse? I could get down with a Mishra's Ruinous Blast

[@the_enamelator]

My hot take is that reducing the power of decks while still leaning into the theme is more fun than improving it.

[@LunarWingCloud]

I also hate the anti-3MV ramp sentiment, there's so many decks that want the 3MV ramp that has a little upside, like Cultivate, Midnight Clock, Cursed Mirror, Heraldic Banner, Crowded Crypt, etc. Some decks really want these!

[@Alexander-mw1ek]

Hot take, if any card in your deck is worth more than $10, then you can‘t complain about me playing armageddon

[@kyleellis1825]

My hottake, the game has cards that bring land back. Not my fault you cant protect your land better.

[@rileypowell5354]

I play a Gruul deck with land destruction, but I think most people who say MLD is bad for the format are just themselves bad at leveraging the effect, or have only played with people who are bad at leveraging the effect.

[@kyleellis1825]

People seem to whine about anything that makes them lose and most people aren't prepared to handle alternate strats like Land destro/mill/discard. If those things really bother someone that bad, that's usually a sign they are actually a worse player than they thought and just don't have an answer/know how to properly make a deck.

[@narvuntien]

Yeah I noticed that I was not hitting my land drops in my deck, I looked at my deck and it turned out that I had slowly cut all my can trips like ponder, preordain and impulse and the like, I put them back in and my mana has been a lot better since.

[@VexylObby]

The boundaries conversation that Matt brought up is totally an important conversation to have. But I will say, the last time he brought it up, he was also a little heated and framed the issue differently. Which explains why there might have been responses to it. Making sure you select your experiences is very important skill to hone, yeah. But that is different than scooping at a time opportunistic for one's self, and detrimental to others. If there is an argument, then yeah, utilized the boundary. Make sure the experience is fun for you too. But I know this can be conflated with an opportunity for some players to try to ruin experience for 3 other people. The PRIOR conversation should be helpful in avoiding potential mishaps like this. SO I hope people don't just jump into a pod with anybody to expect all players will have fun without knowing what they are getting themselves into. Respectfully denying the setup for a game one thinks might not be what they are looking for is great.

[@IneptCardCollector]

As usual, agree with Dana. Almond pancakes are gross. 32:19 concur. Green deck staple. 51:22 that exact advice was given to me last year when I sat down at my first how to play. As a new player, don't just jump in games just because I want to play. Some people won't want me and that's ok.

[@ottoleider6782]

Oh no what did I do to you Otto does include things in decks😢

[@derekseaton4412]

Whenever somebody says that “MLD can’t be fun” I take it as a challenge

[@caterinagerbasi1594]

you know the over efficiance really happened to me. I did a non-cEDH Raffine deck. meaning it doesnt play convos and tutors. so my extreme efficiency was making my deck weaker bc I just didnt have really powerful cards.

[@caterinagerbasi1594]

My hot take is that cEDH plays to few boardwipes and regular EDH plays too many of them. you need to answer those tynmans, those hatebears, those mana dorks. but in regular play they make the game miserable.

[@caterinagerbasi1594]

also more a behaviour hot take is that EDH is not BDSM and worst case scenario is wasting a game night so maybe we can chill with the moralization against estrategies and playstyles.

[@Lord-Pepsi]

Defensive cards are an integral part of magic; my excuse for running fog tribal lol

[@hartspunken4830]

Deglamer is such a sweet card, even Archivist of Oghma agrees!

[@simoncss1]

6:09 Love Tim Willoughby’s takes! Players are lame for using a random method to shirk responsibility & shirk the chance to make a best attack decision or potential mistake. WotC is lame for “gifting us” with “the perfect card” for a given archetype. MtG & EDH players are decent smart, we can research & dig up stuffs just fine. For those less able to do so, just copy & paste published decks. Strong unconditional tutors & cards that unconditionally perform to the highest… are also pretty “brain-dead” decisions, hence, lame

[@cannonballbrad9522]

At 5:10 something unlikely DID just happen to me. I put Twins of Discord in my Volo guide to monsters deck and gave them shroud with some Random equipments and couldn’t be blocked by even mana or odd mana value creatures since I had two copies. I checked edhrec and only one deck out of 7200+ had this creature and I am the second person out of 7200. But that’s only a sampling and I’m sure other people out there have Volo decks and I’m sure that maybe a third person in the whole world has this pairing. It’s pretty neat doing something that feels unique in a big game.

[@werepyre007]

You made it 3 years before your kid outsmarted you? 😮. Jealous, mine got me beat out of the womb

[@BadDrummerCarl]

I don't have an issue with mass land destruction if it's your win condition. Something like Fall of Thran with exile opponent graveyards or you make all your lands indestructible.

[@kyleellis1825]

I used to hate land destro. But now I see it different. I'f im in a red deck and everyone else is ramping out faster. Land destro while I use mana rocks/or even just having cheaper cards is a way to winning. I lose the first set up race but can reset it so I'm the one with the advantage (until artifact destro comes out). No ne protects their land because we just agree not to target it. But it's like going to war and expecting the other country to follow the Geneva conventions, even though they never signed them. I hate getting damaged, I hate when my opponents ramp out mana and can play twice as fast, I hate discard and mill... Really it seems like people just hate losing and aren't creative/capable enough to do anything but play a timmy game. Which is frustrating, since Magic is the most complex game in the world and yet so many people just want to play checkers with the cards.

[@CosmicErrata]

MLD would just make green decks pack land recursion and lean into landfall.

[@danaroach29]

And I think a good portion people who say it'll stop ramp know that. They just pretend they don't because they think blowing up your lands and making you sit there is funny, and they're looking for a way to rationalize it besides "I'm kind of a sociopath."

[@LilSenwolf]

I will say korvold wasn't really designed for commander it was for designed to get commander players to buy into standard packs for brawl

[@kyleellis1825]

I don't get all the hate on Brawl. When it came out, Commander games lasted 3 hours or more. Brawl was a way to speed up the format and keep it as an introductory version of the format. Standard was the most popular format for a long time, it makes sense that standard commander would as well.

[@joewaid]

Dana gives such helpful and insightful perspectives on Magic

[@blakefarber3718]

Balance effects are the solution to green ramp!

[@JasonUmbergerLordofnothing]

MLD isn't an answer. It's a win condition.

[@darinclark6617]

My biggest hot take is Proxies are okay, I'm playing your deck. I don't wanna play your wallet.

[@CraigLoos]

I agree about walking away from a table, and did it a couple days ago. I was the last one to come up to a pod of friends getting ready to play, and noticed that 2 of the 4 of them were playing mill desks. I had played against these 2 decks the day before in a 3 pod, and was an unfun experience as they continually milled everyone and used Kozileks to refill their libraries while I could do nothing. I noped it and walked away.

[@davidcrain453]

I have won games with nyleas colossus in incredible fashion

[@darilmarra4383]

Regarding the efficiency and the nature's claim example: in a Chatterfang deck I run the 3 mana version that creates a treasure (+ squirrel if the commander's out). Is it objectively worse? Yes. Is it more unique and fun? Hell yes!

[@Farycane]

My thoughts on your takes: -you don't need to play the best "staples", but if someone does and you play 20cards in your deck that are just a little bit worse/slower than your opponents, then your chance of winning decreases by a noticable amount. (If winning is one of your goals) -i've not heard the "3 mana rocks are unplayable" for over a year now from people. It just depends on what you are doing. If you got a 4 cmc/mv commander and want it out early, then 1 or 2 mana ramp is crucial. If you want your commander out asap and your commander has cmc/mv 2, you don't get anything of 2 mana rocks. That vacuum argument of Joeys hits the nail. -yep sadly many people try to be "smarter" instead of just watching, or not for the sake of creators sanity -I agree there, too. Making your deck more efficient might be fun for oneself, it most of the time isn't for the other players. -lands as a topic never seizes to amuse me, playing 10+ fetches and then crying about not drawing lands is something I experience on a regular basis -yep, harming other formats never was a good idea -walking away from a game when you get to play once a month isn't really an alternative in quite some cases, but if it is, leave and get a table you want to participate in. Its not about others and your time, in my case its about me having to choice between a table that's not really suited for me, or not playing. And I like to play, and a suboptimal game is better for me than no game. -MLD isn't a solution, but its a type of deck people enjoy to play

[@kyleellis1825]

IT feels like people get upset when they post an opinion online and then everyone doesn't agree with them. When a channel is giving advice, yeah some of the audience wants to be smarter than the people they come to for advice. It's like wanting to outsmart your teacher.

[@SilverquillDropout]

Love the 3 mana rock with upside space that WOTC is exploring.

[@Vyse86]

Optimize for the social experience is such a great idea. I'll keep one deck for higher power/faster games just to scratch that itch, but the rest of my decks will follow that bit of advice. Keep up the great work!

[@Level_1_Frog]

My personal hot take: companions are fine, and more than that- they're fun (in EDH). I love brewing and crafting decks, and when I do I almost always place some kind of restriction on myself (eg. budget) to make the process more enjoyable and not just go on the EDHREC page for the commander and get all the best stuff, staples page and fill some gaps, save it to archidekt and call it a day. And companions are basically a payoff for building a sub-optimal deck, but it *feels* like I'm getting another commander. One of my favorite decks that I've made is a janky Sedris, the Traitor King deck with Gyruda as a companion, and I ended up using so many odd little cards in it because I was locked out of every odd mv staple; it made the deck a lot more fun to build for me. And one of my top absolute favorite decks I've made runs Kraum & Kodama of the East Tree as it's commanders, and then has Keruga as it's companion- so I feel like I've made a deck with 3 commanders! Is it optimal? Absolutely not- I'd be far better off running Keruga in in the main deck and having some low mv cards to even out my curve, or not run it at all really, but the deck is jam packed with cards I love and I like having an extra commander, what can I say? In other formats sure, companions are a bit funky to say the least, but there's a lot of design space to have more balanced companions, ones where you really would be shooting yourself in the foot if you want to have them as a companion; if WotC ever wanted to revisit the mechanic. But even if this batch is all we get thats fine by me- I think they're neat and fun.

[@kyleellis1825]

Companions aren't a problem in the hands of a vorthos player. They are in the hands of a johnny/spike.

[@Level_1_Frog]

@@kyleellis1825 show me the CEDH decks with companions. There's virtually none aside from Jagantha and Sisay, and even then you're better off running Jagantha in the main deck, otherwise you lose out on a lot of powerful pieces with multiple pips. I'm not talking about other formats, they are beyond the scope of commander, and in commander I don't see any downside to companions.

[@kyleellis1825]

@@Level_1_Frog It's the 3 problematic ones (one was banned pre release after all.). It's the ones that basically turn into a free second companion and those are the ones people usually mean when discussing them.

[@Level_1_Frog]

@@kyleellis1825 but are they even used frequently in edh? The only one I would argue that is a potential problem is Kaheera, since if you're playing a tribal deck it's basically free, which is bad for deck building. But outside of Kaheera's 7000 decks on edhrec, the next most popular is Jegantha at 4000, then it drops way down to 1900 keruga and omori decks. That doesn't even scratch the top 100 commanders lists in terms of popularity, of which the majority of commanders probably can't play anyway without seriously disrupting their decks. I honestly want to know if they are a problem and why, but so far all I can see is them being fun goofy cards that essentially handicap your deck or force you to think outside the box. And again, the only exception (aside from Lutri, which is already banned) to this is Kaheera because it just accidentally fulfills the requirements of a lot of tribal decks.

[@kyleellis1825]

@@Level_1_Frog I haven't honestly played in over a year, so I'm not sure about current stats. But I know when I was playing, I had Keruga in my Simic Deck and I convinced a few other people to use it also. Jegantha and Kaheera got used a lot. One girl at the store also had Obosh. I had a deck that fit Keruga. But the other people who copied me just stuck him in pretty much any deck with green/blue. So maybe it's more just confirmation bias where at my store, some people just ruined them for us.

[@josephallengarduque4006]

I enjoy a lot of these discussions on the topic of EDH. I would enjoy if they get in our discussions on duel commanders.