Commander Players Are Using These Cards Wrong | Cards That Do NOT Work With Their Commander (Part 3)

[@DEV-Plays]

homeward path does "work" with gisa... as you said it doesn't work in that passing the creature off with the trigger on the stack won't cause it to immediately die under an opponent's control. however the creatures returned by homeward path do not change zones and thus still have decayed(so if your opponent attacks with them later they will be subject to gisa's ability). Additionally homeward path has utility in that you can pass off the creatures in response to an effect which would destroy them and have them exiled to gisa's first ability (provided that effect still destroys those creatures after they change controller) e.g. wrath of god.

[@Playingwithproxies]

Homeward path can go in just about any deck as you’ll always be able to take advantage of the affect as you control when it occurs you could even activate in response to a board wipe.

[@lordflashheart3741]

Also, if the stolen creatures have good EtB effects, it may be useful to give them back to their owners just for getting those abilities again when the creatures eventually die anew. You just need to play carefully, but Homeward Path is still useful tech in Gisa.

[@uncleacidic8850]

Ram Through and the other “deals damage” spells are niche perfect for Fynn, The Fang Barer. A deck full of tiny deathtouch creatures would rather “deal” than “fight”

[@Toxic_Turttle]

Skullbriar has entered the chat.

[@soadsofakingfan]

Is anyone out there making Rhonas the Indomitable "fighting pole" decks? With a trample deathtouch subtheme? I think that with 100 cards you have the space to do that but idk.

[@uncleacidic8850]

Sounds good to me

[@LilSenwolf]

Ram through goes in neyith it essentially doubles your creatures power again at instant speed.

[@lordflashheart3741]

@@LilSenwolf Only if it has trample though.

[@camael4209]

homeward path does work if the creatures have etb triggers, you get the etb, give it back to the opponent, if you can force them to attack or they attack anyways, they decay, return back under your control and you get the etb. This way you get the most value. It does however require you opponents to play creatures with good etbs, for example muldrifter. We have quite a few decks ijn our playgroup where this combo would be great. It's especially brutal against a panharmonicon/ yaork, the desecrated deck

[@JamesDM4]

I belive you are wrong, creatures changing places on the battlefieild are not ETB and should not trigger and homeward just does that, change creature already in the battlefield from an other.

[@JamesDM4]

An ability that triggers whenever a permanent "enters the battlefield under [a player's] control" doesn't trigger if a player gains control of that permanent from another player (C.R. 603.6a) (see Risky Move for an example of an ability that does trigger this way). Note that gaining control of a permanent is a continuous effect (C.R. 611.1), not a one-shot effect, two of which are exiling a permanent and returning it to the battlefield (under C.R. 610.1), and that such a continuous effect is "continually and automatically performed by the game" (C.R. 613.4), since it's part of the layer system (C.R. 613.1b). EDIT (Sep. 24, 2019): Correctness edit.

[@camael4209]

@@JamesDM4 It is how it works though, the creature enters under your control so, for example a muldrifter, you draw the cards, then, after the etb resolved, you give the creature back to it's owner with homeward path. after it dies again, since it was under their owners control, you get it back

[@a.velderrain8849]

@@JamesDM4 You get the ETB when Gisa's upkeep ability triggers, not from Homeward path. You then use Homework Path to give your opponent back Decayed versions of their creatures, which will die, get exiled with Gisa, come back under Gisa's control on upkeep, get the ETB for the Gisa player again.

[@dominikstickling8197]

@@JamesDM4 the general idea is : 1. Get the creatures with decay and let the etb trigger resolve. 2. Dont attack with the cratures, because you dont want them to die on you side. 3. Use homeworld path in the phase of your choise ( again: dont attack with the token ) 4. The oponent got his creatures back , get no etb of it and they hafe still decay so they will die if he attacks with them and you get them back .

[@RedOphiuchus]

Moonmist is still a one sided fog and I'm sure you've still got at least Mayor in your Tovolar deck. (I'd personally still run huntmaster, instigator gang, and mondronen shaman so the transform effect could still come in.) You definitely need to know it doesn't work on your new werewolves but it still feels like an auto include to me.

[@NitpickingNerds]

Yeah true enough but just making sure people know the rules. 😅

[@metalb0087]

yea im definitly close to 50/50 old and new werewolves and that one sided fog , chefs kiss!

[@brandt_gaming555]

Yeah. I have (I think) 10ish werewolves from the old version of werewolves. I even ask my playgroup if we can errata all werewolves to opporate through Daybound/Nightboundfor sake of ease and its still good in low or mid power decks as a great combat trick.

[@farlischere]

Exactly this, i uave not upgraded with vow but my trovolar deck is mostly old ww

[@williamlambert359]

This is my favourite series by a long shot. Keep at it! I can tell you put a lot of effort into this = )

[@NitpickingNerds]

We love it too!

[@burglesnatchandcompany5062]

Yes please keep em coming. I always get excited when i think of a degenerate idea and then realize its not going to work. You single handedly prevented me from wasting money on an obeka deck i dont need right now.

[@archon5386]

Don't know if you noticed on "Moon Mist" it says "Prevent all damage that would be delt by creatures other then wolves and werewolves" that makes Moon Mist still good for new werewolf decks, it couples quite well with Overrun.

[@NitpickingNerds]

We just don’t think most fogs are playable, we probably should have specified that

[@kiecool1994]

I still run half of my werewolves as ones that can be flipped with moonmist in my modern legal deck, that and the damage prevention is more than enough reason for me to keep it still but I am aware that it doesn't flip my new werewolves

[@chikenugets9165]

@@NitpickingNerds except when it only effects your opponents and also buffs half your dudes, its not just a fog, its a powerful combat trick

[@dominikstickling8197]

@@NitpickingNerds also there are not enough ( good ) day night werewolves for a comander deck and you mostlikly want to play some of the old werewulfes so those would still transform . Also a combat damadge preventer also meens you could swing without holding back because you can fog the most dangerous attack to you , if it would kill you.

[@hallowblade6953]

The obligatory home for every card: Ram through, My Fynn deathtouch / infect tribal loves the instant speed removal

[@NitpickingNerds]

Still feels rough

[@robbiescargill3116]

@@NitpickingNerds In a deck of deathtouch, it's a 2 mana kill spell that doesn't give them a 3/3 beast in a color that isn't black.

[@NitpickingNerds]

It’s kind of like a build-around doom blade, but can be messed with since you have to target one of your dudes, a card that has actually performed very well for us in addition to beast within is Kenrith’s Transformation

[@saboten9621]

@@NitpickingNerds build budget, use both

[@hallowblade6953]

The entire list was bought for £40 but I'd still probably run it without a budget cap

[@jordanlawlor89]

Wow! I was just looking back at your Alela, Artful Provocateur from 2019 for ideas for our secret santa deck exchange, and I did not realize how many negative comments you guys received! I guess there weren't a ton, but some people are not afraid to be mean on KZbin. Glad to see you guys stuck it out! Love you as much as I can without it being weird!

[@workyoutube7798]

Thank you for addressing Tetsuko/Anowon nonbo - you are now forgiven of your sins

[@NitpickingNerds]

WHEW!

[@arturo929]

Yeah but how about when Anowon is not out? Or just got removed? you can use Tetsuko and a bunch of your 1/1's and attack someone to get some cards from reconnaissance mission

[@SacredMagic13679]

@@arturo929 Your deck should have a glut of rogues that are already evasive. Adding in Tetsuko who specifically does not work with the commander because he may synergize with other cards in the deck in edge cases is simply not good deck building.

[@workyoutube7798]

@@arturo929 1) that's a cherry picked scenario. 2) Anowon has a much higher consistency rate and should basically always be out. Tets is not your backup commander, and tets is a useless 2/4 body when your commander is out. 3) If your anowon deck isn't built around having and keeping him out, then it is simply not an efficient build, which is fine... you may consider a different commander though (Sygg?).

[@workyoutube7798]

@@SacredMagic13679 Damn; ninja'd in a convo bout rouges... I think you get triple points for that lol

[@lucaspeters9916]

if a creature goes to 0 toughness because of a -x-x effect (like toxic deluge) they can't regenerate because they die from a statebased action. Toxic Deluge does give you the flexibility to pay 3 to wipe out tokens and utility creatures while keeping skithyrix around though!

[@NitpickingNerds]

Since you’re trying to pump Skittles things like toxic deluge would work better than damnation is all we mean

[@lucasfonsecasittapereira8520]

@@NitpickingNerds Ahhh. I had the same thought when I heard about it in the video. Makes more sense now ^^

[@sp00n29]

Homeward Path gives the Gisa Player the ability to give back creatures who's effects are a burden, since you don't get to choose what creatures are reanimated and some of them may have defender. Much more important: ETB's are a frequent source of value in EDH and giving them back to their owners allows you to reanimate them over and over again, thus triggering all ETBs each turn if your opponents dare to attack with them.

[@josephtucker8456]

I mean, Mizzix's Mastery might not combo with Sevinne, but in my experience Sevinne is just an enormous target all the time and it's no guarantee he'll be out. Meanwhile, the rest of the deck happily will throw tons of instants and sorceries into the grave, and Mizzix's Mastery can just end the game if you have a large enough graveyard to exile. That's why I play it, not that it directly combos with Sevinne.

[@loganboehnlein2738]

To jump on the Sevinne/Mizzix's Mastery confusion train for a sec, not only does the deck not allow enough spells in your graveyard to make it worth it, not only does Mastery not cast the cards, but the first Mastery will exile the spells in your graveyard, meaning you still get nothing if Sevinne copies it while overloaded 😕

[@roflsnpwncakes]

I don’t know all the creatures that people typically run in shirei, maybe they mostly have 1 power, but skullclamp on a zero power creature will still trigger shirei

[@durarada]

most of those deck lists have 1 power creatures. Skullclamp sees a lot of play on popular edh gameplay channels, so people throw it in because of card draw but forget about the fact that it still pumps by 1 to the power

[@DaveDevourerOfPineapple]

Pure Nitpicking Nerds gold. Beezy turning away Ram Through from the party actually killed me. Joe's Mizzix's Mastery rant too. This series is NN at its best. Keep up the amazing work guys.

[@NitpickingNerds]

Haha thank you, I’ll let joe know as well! (Also please tell Ram Through it isn’t invited to any future parties)

[@Darkdew13]

Awesome video! Now I need a short video explaining how Lazav the Multifarious works so I dont have to keep explaining myself lol

[@DomDomPop]

I remember seeing Tetsuko in your Anowon upgrade list and thinking exactly the same thing, but I figured “well, they’re the experts, I’ll leave it” 😂

[@Illianor123]

Sevinne and Mizzix makes sense. If you self mill a lot you could still easily have 7+ hits. You can also hit any of the other good non-flashback instant/sorc spells you might have included. Past in flames is less defendable.

[@beefsupreme1443]

Great job guys, a definite improvement from your last 2 videos in this series. Just one thing to note: - Skullclamp and Shirei will work, if you are using it on 0/1 creatures (such as Blood Artist, Deathknell Kami, and Will-o'-the-Wisp) since the power will get pumped up to 1 which is still in the range to trigger Shirei.

[@zoltarth]

imo ram through is very relevant in any deck that can make an excessively large creature, it's 2 mana spot removal that doesn't put your creature at risk. not to mention you can fairly easily just kill someone with excess damage on a trampler if they're protected by let's say a propaganda

[@andyspendlove1019]

And Neyith can double a creatures power. So while it doesn’t interact with the fight part of Neyith, Neyith can help Ram Through easily turn into lethal damage.

[@gavinscharfe5554]

For the Gisa and Homeward path. I have seen some that run things like In Plaguewind or thing where you wrath the board but save one of your creatures. In those small cases I find running one land will not be a huge downside. Thanks for all the great content!!

[@pauldyson8098]

Thanks for reminding me that I need to build Skittles as my mono black deck (without Damnation). "Boop: make all your creatures go away."--Beezy, 2021

[@NitpickingNerds]

That better be the deck's official slogan!

[@halofreakrun1]

THANK YOU for bringing up the Delina Sundial nonbo! I think a lot of people either misread Delina or copied Sundial from similar Rionya lists, it really ruffles my feathers

[@NitpickingNerds]

If this video spreads enough we can put an end to the misinformation!

[@NitpickingNerds]

If this video spreads enough we can put an end to the misinformation!

[@Wistbacka]

I think you're wrong with the Skithyrix damnation one; 1) I'm sure the ppl having damnation has other board wipes too, and 2) it's intended to be used when commander is not on the battlefield. It's for catching up. Safe to say, if someone is playing Skithyrix, the entire table will be after you and your commander. Constantly. So your commander will be path to exiled a lot, and thus perfect opportunity to wipe the board. It also dies to toxic deluge, doesn't it?

[@dwpetrak]

Thanks for referencing the rule for the first one! Related (?) note: understanding how Layers apply are def the toughest part of magic.

[@NitpickingNerds]

Layers are hard

[@arturo929]

I like these series since it helps a ton, however in this episode, I felt it went a bit heavy about cards not having the best sinergy with the commander (but those cards do work with the 99), kind of assuming the commander is almost always gonna be out in the battlefield, where (in my experience, or in the groups I play) the commanders are out in the battlefield like less than 1/4 of the game because they get so much hate removal is hard to keep them on the battlefield more than 1-2 turns in a row.

[@andrewhoward6946]

While Kaya's Ghostform is still probably bad in Kunoros decks, it does still offer some utility because it works from Exile as well as graveyard. Particularly if you have a Rest in Peace style effect out that makes it so everything gets exiled. But again, still probably worth cutting, unless you're running some real janky tech on purpose

[@chikenugets9165]

i have only seen the first interaction and you already failed to see the actual combo, you get to attack and then you give them back and they still have decayed so they cant block and when your opponent next attacks they must sacrifice it, thus giving it back to you again, except you get any etbs they might have and they at most get 1 more attack, combine it with goad and they are forced to attack someone, causing it to sac and you get it again edit: just because the commander is daybound doesnt mean all the werewolves in the deck are daybound, they might need to transform some of the others, since tovolar doesnt cause them to flip when it becomes night with his ability edit 2: ram through is a good card and one of the only ways for green to kill a deathtouch creature without sacrificing their own creature. yeah fighting draws you a card but against a creature with deathtouch or that is bigger than your creature, drawing a card isnt worth losing an extra card that you already invested mana into. you are already running big creatures in your deck, and you dont want to board clear if you have the big creatures. ram through is a decent card for red/green. i mean 2 mana deal 6 damage is a lot better than any 2 mana red spell i know of edit 3: holy shit the mizzixs mastery is the dumbest argument ever, sevinne cares about instants and sorceries in your graveyard, so your deck probably has ways to get lots of instants and sorceries in your graveyard. and mizzixs mastery cares about instants and sorceries in your graveyard. it doesnt matter that your commander doesnt copy the spells from mizzixs mastery. that card is really powerful in a deck that wants to have cards in its own graveyard. you definitely run through a lot more than 1 spell a turn and sevinne only copies 1 a turn so your argument of not having anything in the grave is stupid

[@gameyurtle1243]

I like this

[@EueMimTB]

That is my favorite series of you guys. Thanks for sharing. Great job!

[@NitpickingNerds]

Thank you for watching

[@markoramius4689]

Can we get the opposite where there are combos that work but make no sense flavor-wise? Ex: Moonmist transforms Jerren, Corrupted Bishop into Ormendahl.

[@JazzyAnasazi]

25:00 I built a high level Delina deck last month and never included this card because I knew it wouldn't work, so instead, I use things that copy her ability, increase my damage output, or wheel a lot. It's a seriously fun af deck

[@GorrTGB]

One of my favorite decks right now.

[@JazzyAnasazi]

@@GorrTGB same here, Najeela is also one of my favs. If you got a decklist on Moxfield or Archidekt of your Delina Wild Mage deck, you should totally comment a link to it.

[@workyoutube7798]

war journal entry, 11/17/21: These videos are awesome - they have actually been used in arguments at my table before (once, but it counts lol)

[@NitpickingNerds]

That counts! :D

[@kingginger3335]

I've known not to put Tetsuko in my Anowon deck. The number 1 reason is because all the 1 or less powered Rogues in the game already say they're unblockable. The only deck I've ever seen Tetsuko be broken in is Arcades the Strategist because all your Walls are 0 power but they deal damage equal to their toughness

[@McDodgerMan]

I think Neyith can see value in Ram Through if the big creatures coincidentally have trample. It also removes deathtouchers since they won’t bite back. I haven’t built Neyith before, but the trade off of (Pump X) for (X-1 trample damage) Versus (Pump X-2 and a card) for (~2X damage and removal) *can* seem pretty valuable. This is still discounting the argument that red removal can be better, for sure.

[@lunarevel]

I have Moonmist in my Tovolar deck because I’m still running quite a few of the old wolves, so it does give me quite a bit of value for it. I’ve yet to have it feel bad when I played it

[@nickhughes8179]

Was going to buy a Days Undoing for my Nekusar deck. Thanks for informing me of the end of turn rules and the nonbo!

[@RainBrain26]

"Permanent" on German cards is called "bleibende Karte" - "staying card". And now I am told, if it's a token, a staying card is not a card....

[@anthonydelfino6171]

Skithrix, as a side note, doesn't work with the other board wipes you talked about. -1/-1 until end of turn effects (Mutilate, Toxic Deluge) don't destroy the creature, and so Skithrix can't regenerate to dodge those either. So to that end, Damnation, I would argue, still has a place in the deck as just being a mana efficient way of sweeping out all the creatures. Sometimes you want to play something other than a Plague Wind on your turn.

[@NitpickingNerds]

Toxic Deluge is scaleable so that you never kill Skithyrix, and if you're pumping its power, things like Mutilate can be one-sided, plus Crux will always be one-sided

[@anthonydelfino6171]

@@NitpickingNerds your point, as I understood it, was damnation is bad because it has the can't regenerate clause. So just countering that -x/-x still doesn't let him regenerate. You're right that voltron decks, though, would prefer wrath effects that keep the commander in play.

[@mfitkin]

Moonmist won the game for my friend the other day in his tovolar deck that he cobbled together with old cards, it didn’t even transform anything, it was just a clutch fog. I guess he should take it out when optimizing but still it was awesome

[@NitpickingNerds]

Fog is so bad but I have seen it over perform lol

[@mfitkin]

@@NitpickingNerds sadly it probably won’t even make the cut into your “Top 10 Cards That Overperformed Literally One Time Only and Tried to Trick You Into Keeping Them In Your Deck” video tomorrow

[@SacredMagic13679]

@@NitpickingNerds *Cackles in Constant Mists in Titania*

[@ferdithetank7535]

@@SacredMagic13679 Constant Mists is gross, basically green Capsize.

[@noobtuber10]

@@NitpickingNerds angus fog tribal

[@canbeone7277]

What's funny you guys suggested Tetsuko getting put into that rogue deck, and I thought, "Lol, that's never going in Anowon." At least you guys realize it was a bad call now. lol

[@NitpickingNerds]

We make mistakes and we own them and move forward. 😊

[@trumpetperson11]

18:18 - Idk, I don't think Ram through is meant to be a 'fight spell' in those decks. I'm not going to say its good, but it definitely is at least defensible if your intention is double power, 'Ram Through' a 1/1 (or any small creature) and then attack that player for a lot of burst all in one turn. Not a strictly good card, but seems fun theme for the small price of having trample creatures, which you already want in a deck that doubles power.

[@GrashUriza]

The issue here is the way Ram Through is worded, it isn't a fight spell. It therefore doesn't synergize with the commander.

[@puddinglover85]

Doubling the power of a ghalta then swinging and using ram through to finish off a player seems pretty good to me..

[@trumpetperson11]

@@GrashUriza You are saying that fighting is the only way to synergize with that commander. I think its perfectly reasonable to synergize with the doubling of power ability. Or for that matter, why not both? There is a lot of overlap in card pools for those two types of build arounds. I'm sure if your goal is big creatures, you are okay with having some fight spells.

[@TheCommanderTavern]

Day's Undoing isn't necessarily an error or nonbo in wheel decks if you're flashing it during an opponent's turn with Leyline of Anticipation, Vedalken Orrery, etc. So unless you're flashing it in, then it's not worth a slot. Soul-Scar Mage is still good in The Scorpion God decks if you're including cards like Pestilence and Pyrohemia which are still good in The Scorpion God decks as well. So without those types of effects, it's not worth a slot.

[@mathieubrebouillet714]

I had the transform werewolves spell for my tovolar deck because half of it was old werewolves, but with crimson vow, most of those will be going.

[@NitpickingNerds]

That is completely fair.

[@ericlizama8552]

The thing about Soul-Scar Mage is that it makes all of your attacks good, because your opponents are never going to want to block. This effect gets even better when you have Scorpion God on the field.

[@charlesmaillho367]

Decayed is not the player's trigger, decayed is the creature's trigger so it doesn't matter who controls it as you are not directly sacrificing it with an effect such as viscera seer. The creature still has decayed so I don't see the issue with the rule then.

[@NitpickingNerds]

You control the trigger, so the only one who can sacrifice them is you

[@Wrokzor]

@@NitpickingNerds could you attack with the decayed creature, and then homeward path right away, and then at end of combat, the trigger would trigger under the opponents control, and they'd have to sacrifice the creature, right?

[@caseywellington4761]

@@Wrokzor it triggers once you attack, with a delayed resolution. So as soon as you attack, you control the trigger. If you give away the creatures, your opponent doesn't get the trigger handed off to them, so they won't have to sac the creatures

[@doors54]

In defense of Soul-Scar Mage, there’s not a whole lot of instants that put -1/-1 counters on ALL creatures. There’s TONS that deal small amounts to all creatures, like the new End The Festivities, that are much more effective when you’re reducing the toughness of your opponents creatures. Soul-Scar Mage turns that damage into further reductions. I’d include it if I kept that in mind.

[@Omenshaper]

A good rule of thumb for whether an " end the turn" will work with a card is to look for the word "next". If it says "exile at the beginning of the NEXT end step", then you can do end the turn gimmicks. If it doesn't say "next" in the effect, then you can't.

[@andyspendlove1019]

10:10 I mean, Kaya’s Ghostform still works to protect creatures from being exiled while Kunoros is on the battlefield.

[@torinnbalasar6774]

The homeward path interaction with decayed in Gisa is an important thing to remember, but I would still run it because it means I can keep creatures through board wipes.

[@thestralspirit]

Edit: I am wrong and to this day Delina still confuses me. Speaking of spreading misinformation about Delina and Sundial of the Infinite, you do lose the tokens the second the sundial ability resolves. If you look at the rulings, the last part of ending the turn is ending the current step/phase so the tokens would just get exiled because combat ended.

[@NitpickingNerds]

Isn’t it a trigger though? Ending combat with that on the stack would exile the trigger

[@thestralspirit]

@@NitpickingNerds I looked into the rules a bit more. It was 511.2 that really convinced me that they'd stick around until next combat. It is indeed a trigger, but for some reason I read it more like a threaten effect than a "at the beginning of the end of combat" trigger

[@drachir7146]

Daybound only allowing for daybound/nightbound transformations is super annoying as not even SOI cards work

[@NitpickingNerds]

Kind of a bummer, but necessary for all the rules shenanigans

[@Claybo]

Specifically for Moonmist not working, doesn't this completely ignore: 101.1. Whenever a card’s text directly contradicts these rules, the card takes precedence. The card overrides only the rule that applies to that specific situation. The only exception is that a player can concede the game at any time

[@tankdempsey1818]

The devs did say that it doesn't work. I think the answer is Layers

[@flyingsquirrel111]

This video makes my little rules-lawyer heart so happy.

[@GeelsProduction]

I don't use Tetsuko myself in my Anowon deck, but I considered adding her anyway because of the excellent body once Anowon is out. Being a 2/4 for 1U is something to consider, and there are other lords in that deck.

[@micahhonig1575]

One of the nonbos I want people to know about is Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar in Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer or similar decks. People think Kediss’s damage trigger triggers combat-damage abilities but it doesn’t. It wouldn’t trigger Ragavan’s treasure or exile abilities additional times. It doesn’t even cause commander damage!

[@grampaw5605]

Sevinne & Mizzix's Mastery both have great synergies with spell slinger decks, but they are certainly nonbos. Deck synergy > pair symmetry.

[@MiniMotys]

The Skittels-Damnation incident : Oh no, Mono Black deck want to run cheapest possible boardwipe in terms of Mana Value, how dare they.

[@NitpickingNerds]

Well except for Toxic Deluge, and it's also on-par with Mutilate and definitely worse than Crux of Fate too, maybe as a fourth boardwipe, but we usually don't play that many

[@dakodastevens8972]

I was looking at building a Sevinne deck and I was really confused about both past in flames and the dragon that gives everything flashback when it attacks being in so many decks. Mizzix mastery makes a little more sense to me. If your dumping a bunch of cards into your graveyard with looting/mill effects for Sevinne then I could see why someone might want the effect.

[@andrewmorrison6043]

I recently built a Sevienne deck and I run the dragon that gives things flashback. Not every instant or sorcerery card is going to have flash back (generous gift, swords, Supreme verdict) so having a way to recast those (i also have the red enchantment that does the same, just forgot their names) is nice. Gives more flexibility. Can't really hate in doubling down on what a deck should be doing imo.

[@dakodastevens8972]

@@andrewmorrison6043 Sure, there will be some, but how many? I haven't built the deck yet, but I can't imagine it will be that many. Plus you have cards like Mission Briefing, Snappy and maybe even stuff like Recoup. I feel like a 5 mana 4/4 flyer that doesn't have haste is just super slow, especially because you probably have to take a turn off from flashing something back (or retracing or jump starting or what ever) to play it so you lose some amount of Sevinne value. Then what, if it makes it all the way around the table and you get to attack with it, there might be 1 or 2 spells that don't have flashback in your graveyard to chose from? Also there are only so many effects in this sort of deck that you can play that care about spells in your graveyard that don't have flash back right? You will only have a relatively small amount of spells that don't have flashback so you can't really run all the recoup/snapcaster/gearhulk/backdraft hellkite/mission briefing sorts of effects in the deck and I kind of feel that backdraft hellkite is one of the weaker ones. Maybe I am wrong and it works out a lot better than I think it will or maybe you really do end up running more than a handful of spells that you can't innately cast from your graveyard. *Shrug* I guess I have to make the deck up to figure it out. On a side note, is supreme verdict really worth it in the deck? I wasn't planning on including it because Sevinne has the prevent damage clause so I was going to reach for the red board wipes (Blasphemous act, chain reaction etc). Maybe you want more than those 2 + rift, I could see that, and I could also see reaching for verdict over something like magmaquake.

[@andrewmorrison6043]

@@dakodastevens8972 you're probably right. It is a bit slow and there are better options. But i built the deck to be a mid power deck. I have a really tuned deck already (Kathril, Aspect Warper) and was looking at something a little less powerful. A 4/4 flying body also is never a terrible thing imo. So i have some slower cards included to lower the power range a smidge. I run 4 board wipes in the deck with him. Blasphemous Act, Supreme Verdict, Hour of Devastation, and chain lighting. My playgroup kinda goes heavy on the control and is reeeeallly good at developing board states out of no where. Verdict is a good fit for me i think bc of the can't be countered clause. I run Hour of Devastation to hit the noncreature things I don't have an answer for, and Blasphemous Act and Chain lightning bc of Sevienne.

[@mangosah]

missed the perfect sponsor shill at 6:30 :D "A card is physically is a card, it goes in your hand, it goes in your Dragon Shield Sleeves, it goes..."

[@NitpickingNerds]

"... in your cart on TCGplayer.com!"

[@ZatomiAwake]

I think the key to ram through is in the last effect. If you already have a beefy creature with trample and you buff it to have double power, then Ram Through on a chump blocker, you eliminate a blocker, deal a butt load of trample damage, and potentially even more damage with its actual attack. Yes, it's inefficient because not all of your good monsters will have trample, but when it goes off correctly, that could mean the game for one player or even a two pronged attack if you're attacking one player but another player has a creature you'd like to eliminate through 1 sided damage. Not saying it's good, but if you're running those two with some sort of Johnny mentality, it probably has nothing to do with the card draw.

[@jamesdaley1674]

Just to stick up for moonmist it does have an extra effect. I run it because it’s a 1 sided fog

[@ExKiwi-yw8er]

I actually learned things in this video! Thanks nitpicking nerds!

[@NitpickingNerds]

Super glad to hear that!

[@bluepomegranate]

A card for your consideration: Urza's Saga. It can only get cards with mana *cost* 0 or 1, not mana *value*. You can't use it to fetch artifact lands because they have no mana cost, and you can't use it to fetch colored artifacts like Esper Sentinel because {W} isn't the same as {1}. This is definitely a rules quirk on Urza's Saga that I missed on the first 10 reads lol.

[@LandSayGo]

I still run compost in my daryl deck, but its more so because a lot of my meta runs black and its a great card against them. Already knew the interaction didn't work. A good way to describe a token is a "marker" that represents something. Great vid

[@vanDaalstad]

had the sad realization that Devotion doesn't work with werewolves, so Nylea Keen Eyed seems like a less impressive ramp spell now.

[@NitpickingNerds]

Transform cards have the cast cost regardless of which side they are on.

[@simonteesdale9752]

@@NitpickingNerds I thought they kept their Mana Value, but not their casting cost?

[@qwormuli77]

@@NitpickingNerds Transformed cards retain their _mana value,_ but not their _casting cost,_ which houses the colored mana pips. So yeah, transformed cards don't provide anything for Devotion or Chroma.

[@jacobthurley6130]

Moonmist is at least a solid one sided fog for 2 mana though

[@NitpickingNerds]

The only fogs we tend to like are the repeatable ones

[@TheBraveMagikarp]

you guys are doing the Lord's work with this series

[@NitpickingNerds]

We do try 😂

[@RaginKavu]

11:20 If I'm not mistaken, two separate instances of lifelink trigger separately. So if you give lifelink to Kunoros with Sorin, it will give you twice as much life.

[@auronit927]

It will most certainly NOT. Lifelink does NOT stack. This is because LIFELINK is NOT A TRIGGER. It's a STATIC ABILITY. The only instance where this works is if you have a creature with LIFELINK and enchant it with Spirit Link for example, which says: "Whenever enchanted creature deals damage, you gain that much life." Since Spirit Link does NOT say LIFELINK it works. Rule 702.15e: Multiple instances of lifelink on the same object are redundant.

[@Frostin_326]

So a point of note, ram through is considered a bite effect. An I argue that yes, you wont get anything from the commander, you still can get excess damage through using her ability. Otherwise great video. Love these, keep them coming

[@NitpickingNerds]

I mean ram through just not a good commander card imo

[@durarada]

THIS is how these videos should go. I didn't much like the last video in this series, since it felt more like you guys were just talking down to people not play their decks in super optimal, super fast ways, but this video is just a lot of interactions that usually gum up the table and go unchallenged because people just want to play (LOOKING AT YOU HOMEWARD GISA, I KNEW YOU DIDNT WORK)

[@NitpickingNerds]

We did our best to make sure that we presented the video in the best way this time. 😊

[@codelicious6590]

I would've thought that Compost would not work with tokens for the fact that tokens do not go to the graveyard, but actually simply cease to exist when they die, in essence exiled but not actual exiled. Obliterated.

[@nonlamesniper]

Painter's servant with compost is absurd😅

[@velphidrow]

Nope. Tokens hit the graveyard

[@olivierdebilde4292]

Good call on Delina/Sundial. I didn't notice either at first but since I don't have sundial, I skipped it. (BTW Delina is a very fun mono red commander !)

[@tylerisdrawing9913]

Day's Undoing was a pretty annoying revelation to me. It does, however, fit nicely in Obeka for a little redundancy.

[@ferdithetank7535]

It doesn't help you with things Obeka does though. If you end your turn before "at the end of your turn" triggers go to stack, they still happen on cleanup phase.

[@tylerisdrawing9913]

@@ferdithetank7535 what are you talking about? End the turn is the exact same wording as Obeka.

[@angelatheist]

@@tylerisdrawing9913 If you end the turn before triggers that say "at the beginning of the next end step" went on the stack then those triggers will just happen on the next opponent's end step. Obeka works because it puts those triggers on the stack and then ends the turn which exiles the triggers.

[@db-tb7zf]

days undoing is fine if you can use something like emergence zone to enable it on another players turn.

[@a.velderrain8849]

Every card combo listed in this video that actually DO work. 1) Homeward Path and Gisa. If someone targets one of your stolen creatures with destruction / damage, you Path it back to the owner before it dies, and Gisa gets you it back again. Or you Path in response to a board wipe and exile the whole board. You can also steal good ETB creatures, then Homeward Path them back and let them die due to decayed triggers, get them back again. 2) Kaya's Ghostform can still protect other creatures in Kunoros from exile. Kunoros can't stop cards from returning from exile. And again can protect Kunoros or walkers. 3) Ram Through and Neyith. With enough mana, Ram Through becomes a win condition with Neyith. Neyith pumps a trample creature multiple times (it doubles power so it can get to 40 pretty fast), then you cast Ram Through and kill someone. 4) Shirei and Skullclamp: just want to add that 0 base power creatures WILL come back with Shirei even if equipped with Skullclamp. There's a fair amount of 0 power creatures typically in Shirei.

[@witchcraft2264]

I like ram through because it's a good instant speed removal that doesn't get your creature hurt. Also since green, it's mostly likely your creatures could have trample and the commanded can make your creatures way bigger so ram through does creature removal and player damage. I don't think it's too far off meta for the deck, like sure most of the time there could be a better spell but it's still not too bad

[@sp00n29]

Damnation is one of only few black boardwipe. It's an insurance policy if enemy boards get too big. You'll probably use it after Skithiryx has been removed or if you don't mind to recast/reanimate him.^^

[@gregoryfeddema1312]

Yet again I'm editing my Obeka deck, thanks for catching the Delina error

[@NitpickingNerds]

We got your back!

[@nelsonmarques6732]

Absolutely love this series, guys!

[@NitpickingNerds]

Thanks a ton, appreciate it!

[@FakeDonut]

The Scorpion god Pick isn't bad, but with Everlasting Torment, you at least have 2 of this effect. I'd recommend, if you have these 2, get damage based boardwhipes. The deck naturally has 30 different single target removal spells, so you dont need damage based targeted removal, but the boardwhipes can easily be damagebased without taking away from the deck and supporting the damage synergies. The only black boardwhipe that needs to be included is black sun's zenith

[@mattturner1090]

Dang, that Gisa/Homeward Path nonbo makes me sad. On the other hand, I'm super glad I dodged that bullet - I was tossing up which commander to build for my first ever mono black EDH deck and decided to go with Ghoulcaller Gisa instead. :)

[@NitpickingNerds]

That works out for the best!

[@nickjoseph77]

Fun hosts, good commentary.

[@ProjaliLN]

Unless I'm missing something, Daryl's walker tokens also miss Compost trigger by not being black creatures (unless Wizards just hasn't updated the Oracle on walker tokens). EDIT: Corrected, see replies.

[@andrewhoward6946]

I haven't played against any walker tokens yet, but yeah I totally missed that they're apparently colorless? I could easily see that causing confusion. Edit: Cool, looks like they clarified walkers are Black zombies

[@NitpickingNerds]

As far as I know they’re still black, can you link where it says they’re colorless?

[@ProjaliLN]

@@NitpickingNerds You're right. It's in the Comprehensive Rules (111.10d A Walker token is a 2/2 black Zombie creature token named Walker.), just not explained on Daryl or the Walker tokens they released alongside. The other predefined tokens in Comp Rules are colorless, oops!

[@kermitmharris]

Darn that A B C D E F rhyme scheme was a non bow with cherries

[@NitpickingNerds]

He doesn’t synergize 😭

[@mrscratch47]

Since ya'll are the nitpicking nerds, and since you are talking about rules, I'm going to be pedantic and mention that in the title, the word "wrong" is an adjective and shouldn't describe the word "using" as that is a verb. It should be "wrongly" or "incorrectly" or some other adverb. Thanks for the video, as you may have guessed, rules interaction discussion is one of my favorite subjects. 😍

[@Nurriek]

The wording on Propaganda is a holdover from when you would have to target the player and then assign the damage to their planeswalker's loyalty. So a planeswalker would be protected by Propaganda under the old ruling.

[@Ascendedninja6]

I have Damnation in my Skithiryx because I make sure the board is cleared and I have enough mana to give it haste before I cast it. Skithiryx will come out late in the game because it's a target so I don't want to immediately cast it. It's also 1 of 3 creatures in my deck so I need all the removal I could get.

[@NitpickingNerds]

Which board wipes do you play in that deck?

[@Ascendedninja6]

@@NitpickingNerds Blood on the Snow, Bontu's Last Reckoning, Crux of Fate, Deadly Tempest, Extinguish All Hope, In Garruk's Wake, Killing Wave, Life's Finale, Necromantic Selection and Plague Wind. I also plan on buying Kindred Dominance eventually. The deck is a work in progress but it doesn't do bad in a 4 man pod. I've infected two of three opponents multiple times with it but the third player usually kills me off because I'm low on health at that point or they go infinite 😔. I also try to have as much mana ramp as I can, so casting Skithiryx and giving it haste isn't a problem. . . . . usually.

[@NemesisParadigm]

You have Gisa and a stolen Sun Titan on the battlefield. Your opponent targets the Sun Titan with a removal spell, you tap Homeward Path, give it back to its owner, it still dies, and you get it back at the end of the turn. Seems pretty good to me. Also, if you put a Darksteel Plate on Gisa, you can get your stolen creatures back from a board wipe.

[@NitpickingNerds]

Well they aren't going to waste removal on a 1 time attacker that can'tbblock.

[@NemesisParadigm]

@@NitpickingNerds It depends on the game state. And the bigger point is that including Homeward Path over a swamp in your Gisa deck for situations that might reasonably come up is probably worth it in my mind, even if it doesn't have a direct "combo" with the commander. Decay gives you a way to get rid of your stolen creatures before you use Homeward Path, so it's rarely going to be a hindrance. It also depends on your play group's meta. If my playgroup likes to steal creatures, I'm including Homeward Path in all my decks regardless of the Commander.

[@NemesisParadigm]

@@NitpickingNerds You can also play politics with Homeward Path. I'll give you back your creature if you agree to use it on someone else. Then I get it back and I can give it back to you again.

[@drawando8588]

Ohh the mizzix mastery applies to prosper tomebound too, since you are casting copies from the cards you exiled

[@drawando8588]

@@robertmonroe1883 ye its the problem is it also appears in a high number of prosper decks, while not working with the commander in that synergistic way youd think it would, ill admit yes to recast all your reignite the future and light up the stage effects is neat, but that is just that, neat.

[@Xdylan3131]

Thank you for pointing out that Gisa interaction doesn't work. I've tried explaining it to people and they just don't get it

[@MZT1418]

Lol maybe I'm basic but Moonmist remains in my Tovolar deck because A) I have quite a few og werewolves that it DOES work for. And B) it still prevents damage from anything but the wolves lol, so I ain't takin it out.

[@KingOfGames15222]

When talking about Daryl and Compost, the other reason it doesn't work is because Daryl does NOT make black zombie tokens, he makes colorless Walkers. So even if compost said black creature, it would still not trigger of the Daryl Walker tokens

[@NitpickingNerds]

111.10d A Walker token is a 2/2 black Zombie creature token named Walker.

[@KingOfGames15222]

@@NitpickingNerds Gotcha, just looked it up, when he was first released since he didn't specify and the tokens themselves have relatively colorless borders we assumed it was colorless, tha ks for the clarification

[@Aedryn6210]

My most recent this doesn't work moment was spark double + lazav dimir mastermind. As soon as the spark double lazav uses its copy ability it becomes legendary again and you lose it to legend rule. Normally you want to copy your opponents things in that deck so there are better clone effects out there for that.

[@dangerfield6855]

Love this series guys great job

[@NitpickingNerds]

Appreciate the kind feedback, we love doing this one too!

[@julioborjon4389]

With Gisa, the card specifically says "THEY (the creatures returned) gain decay". That ability is connected to the creatures, not to the player or Gisa.

[@velphidrow]

Decayed however is tied to you

[@pyredynasty]

The thing they are talking about is you attack with the creatures and then return them to their owners before the decay trigger resolves. The idea being that they get exiled again. It's the trigger that is attached to you so they just get their creatures back.

[@kylewietrick4570]

I personally use Day's undoing in Nekusar for one purpose only and that is to restock on the wheels I've used previously. If I'm lucky I have Layline of Anticipation out and could flash in Day's Undoing. It is a nonbo if you attempt to use it to get triggers off but a great 3 mana spell to restock your wheels.

[@astuteanansi4935]

I feel like Propaganda in Teferi decks might be less of a "protect the commander" thing and more of a "please don't kill me while I'm trying to get my very expensive commander out in a color that has zero ramp" thing.

[@PurpleTentacle17]

Since you mention not to include Moonmist in Tovolar I'm eager to see how the Nitpicking Nerds would build a powerful Tovolar deck.

[@WiiTara]

Not sure if I used the card wrong, but in my gb deck i sometimes looped eternal witness and living death. Like i cast living death, it resolves, brings creatures including eternal witness back and then goes to the graveyard. Then i get s bunch of etb triggers and use my eternal witness trigger to return living death back to my hand. Im just nor sure if this card is already in my graveyard the moment i have to target my witness trigger

[@jasonmohn1472]

Moon mist in a Tovar deck isn't a bad idea if you run older werewolves since they aren't day bound. Biggest issue with werewolves is keeping them transformed since you or the next player is going to cast two or more spells and flip everything. Buffing old ones to get the better side is not a bad idea. Also Kayas Ghostform protects from exile effects as well which are becoming more common. It will trigger since it's coming back from exile not the graveyard.

[@NitpickingNerds]

I get what Kaya's Ghostform can do, but nobody is falling for that, if you enchant any creature other than Kunoros in the entire deck, they can just kill it and get a 2-for-1 with Kunoros out. And if you're using it as a backup plan for Kunoros dying, just use something like Unearth which can cycle when it's a completely dead card right?

[@Gashnaw]

so, that is why the Zedruu Combo with thought Lash no longer works (I mean it is still a good donate triggers that will make you lose friends, but you can no longer stack the triggers to exile libraries.