Commander Staples I'm Taking Out Of My Decks

[@seanwood3033]

One thing I do enjoy about MDFCs which isn't discussed often is the ability to fetch for them with spells and abilities that target nonland cards. I've had a few games where I was just having terrible luck with land draw and I played a Wandering Mind. Within the 6 cards on the top of my library was the MH3 Izzet MDFC. That particular one was a tapped land but it's always nice to have additional ways to meet your land drop for the turn.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

true, but this is a very specific scenario. (that doesn't apply to any of my decks). it's also good if you want to keep your land count down (charbelcher deck for example). but this doesn't apply to me either.

[@bryceduyvewaardt8136]

Plaza of Heroes is an MVP in ONE deck of mine for 2 reasons: First it’s a four colour deck with two 2-colour commanders, so the fixing is fantastic without access to green. The second reason is one commander makes clues, so holding up that mana either leads to saving a legendary creature OR using the unspent mana on a clue (+1 mana) as a fallback.

[@crawdaddy1234]

For MDFC lands, I expect that I’m going to play it as a land about 70 percent of the time. So that 30 percent better be DAAAAAMN good.

[@pretty_fly_for_a_jeskai]

Very true, although the better mdfcs get, the more they will slot into simply replacing actual spells in a deck. I've already done this myself, although in the very specific example of my Satya energy deck. Rush of Inspiration is actually just a fairly good instant speed draw that's flexible on pips and Suppression Ray is essentially a board wipe on creatures if I can either finish the player right then or the entire table works together to do so. For that deck, those two mdfcs are primarily spells and only played as tapped dual lands if I might miss a drop in the first half of the game, but having just two extra dual lands even tapped markedly improves land drop consistency. I think generally I would probably lump a handful of other mdfcs that are decent enough to run for their spell side instead of just as a land with another mode for late game. Valakuts, Stupor, Strength of Harvest, Glasspool, Boggart Trawler, Water-Logged. Tbh I would run any and all of these as just spells that could make land drops, and not touch my land count.

[@koboldqueen3055]

I use a lot of bounce lands so I have mdfc come down as lands and get them back later. Using them like that pretty much gives you a second hand that's very unlikely to be targeted.

[@Jerhevon]

Yay for the bounce lands. And in general I agree here. I'm not going to play all available MDFCs, but for something like Sejiri shelter. I only want it a fraction of the time, and maybe I am backing it up with Blacksmith's Skill. Lands are quite good, but we run utility lands for a reason even if things don't line up for them all the time.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

i can't count the amount of times i've played a sejiri shelter on turn 3 tapped and not been able to cast my 3 drop (it's alot). i CAN count the amount of times sejiri shelter has saved my creature. i think it's 4.

[@crawdaddy1234]

@@edhdeckbuilding And that’s why I do this. I have cast Emeria’s Call, but I know that nine times out of ten it’s going to be a painful land. I think I’ve only cast Shatterskull Smashing, like, three times. The one mythic one I’ve literally never cast is Agadeem’s Awakening, even in mono-black. I’ve never cast Hagra Mauling or Kazandu Mammoth (even in a landfall deck - the deck doesn’t have a problem hitting for damage 😂).

[@Merlewhitefire]

Flawless Maneuver seems specifically suited for an aggro deck to me, because it then has double-usage. It's not JUST anti-boardwipe protection, it can also give you a more potent attack turn. I do think it's wasted as a generic "boardwipe protection in white" though. Better options. ETA: The only MDFC lands I ever add are the pathway dual-lands or the ones with genuinely unique effects that also fit my theme. ETA AGAIN: Plaza of Heroes is something I only ever put in my handful of "Legendary Tribal" concept decks.

[@RickyG93]

Better options than Flawless Manuever? Bro it's 0 mana. Please tell me what's better besides Clever Concealment.

[@Merlewhitefire]

@@RickyG93 Oh, sorry, I didn't realize that you started the game with your commander on the field and he was impervious to all removal, that does change things slightly.

[@RickyG93]

@@Merlewhitefire So nothing. Ya'll just talking shit lol.

[@Merlewhitefire]

@@RickyG93 I literally made a perfectly inoffensive comment and you rolled up into my replies looking for a fight, you maladjusted troglodyte.

[@nanoglitch6693]

People also seem to forget how useful it is to protect your creatures from *your own* boardwipes. People might not be running as many wipes with destroy effects but I sure as heck do in the deck that runs a flawless maneuver lol. Casting it for free is usually clutch because it makes it easier to have mana for the boardwipe. I do agree that I consider it better in an aggro deck.

[@d.a.d.-ohgosh]

Love this video and oh God I have a lot to say but I'll just share this for now. Playing MDFC'S comes down to a philosophy. You're exactly right that for the most part they're bad spells and bad lands. Take Bala Ged Recovery for example. It's an overcosted Regrowth which is terrible or a tapped green source which is also terrible. However it's quite good because it's never dead. The inherent quality that MDFC'S have over most other cards is that they fix both mana flood and mana screw. That's a very impressive quality to have since the next best option is drawing cards. Drawing cards just gets you to your lands and spells but isn't guaranteed. You can still brick. MDFC'S are spell or land at any time unless it's like Turntimber Symbiosis and you don't have the mana. So I tend to stay away from the high cost MDFC'S. It's okay to have the worse card when it'll be relevant in more situations. Blacksmith's Skill is great! It can never be a land. My point is that I think both philosophys are valid and viable. If you prefer card quality, it's fair to stat away from most MDFC'S. If you appreciate the inherent quality MDFC'S have to fix mana flood and mana screwn then that's equally legit.

[@Welverin]

Yep, just like modal spells, their value is in their flexibility and flexibility comes with increased cost. So, it comes down to what you value more, which can be influenced by power level.

[@JimFaindel]

Plaza of heroes is more of a fixing land with a small protection bonus on 3-5 color decks rather than a go-to for 1-2 color ones.

[@doctorterror1788]

I can't count the amount of times MDFCs have helped me clutch out a game. Sejiri Shelter can be a land, a protection spell, and a finisher to let your creature get in. You can play it early as a land and then bounce it to hand with a bounceland. Love the videos and recommendations are always great, but definitely don't agree with your opinion on MDFCs

[@edhdeckbuilding]

i know people love the "play it earlier then bounce it back to hand later" scenario. but that's dreamland scenario. it rarely ever happens. not a good reason to put it in your deck. and if you find a sejiri shelter is saving your butt more times than you can count. maybe you should just be running more (and better) protection spells.

[@d.a.d.-ohgosh]

​@@edhdeckbuildingthat's interesting. I actually find that the bounce land scenario occurs fairly often for me. This is not specifically a defense of Sejiri Shelter but I can name a lot of situations where I've bounced lands for a huge benefit and many include MDFC'S. I'll name 3. In my landfall deck I used Crop Rotation to fetch Golgari Rot Farm and bounced Malakir Rebirth (which you mentioned is good in the video) to save my Commander a board wipe. Last week I used Selesnya Sanctuary to bounce Witch Enchanter back to hand and used it to blow up a Felidar Retreat. Another time someone had the audacity to play Humility. I had Sink into Stupor in play as a land and low and behold I draw into a Simic Growth Chamber. Bounced Sink, used it to bounce Humility, and swung in on the Humility player taking him out. Those are just a few but I have many more examples both that I've done and seen. So I don't know if I'm just lucky as hell or my experience is so incredibly specific but there you have it. Maybe it's not super common but seems like a pretty reasonable situation to me based on my experience.

[@MisterWebb]

@@d.a.d.-ohgosh*lo and behold

[@Theanthill216]

@@edhdeckbuildinga land is always a land, but mdfc allows flexibility in the mana base slots, to have cards that fit the decks game plan. In mono colors, easily 2 are “auto includes”, and we now have dual mdfcs as well. I will always play an mdfc over a generic tap land; & even scry lands, fast lands, surveil lands imo are less good than mdfcs. Budget wise most of them are sub $5 each, and are just superior in most cases. Deck ratio becomes more favorable as now you can run 35 lands+ 2-4 mdfcs vs 37 lands and no mdfcs. You will brick in non green decks in lands or flood out more; mdfc helps mitigate that by being a playable effect as well. I could make an hour long video on mdfcs alone in edh.

[@franksantana6859]

​@@d.a.d.-ohgoshwell duh, of course they are good in a landfall deck

[@Theanthill216]

I agree with most of your assessments BUT we definitely dont see eye to eye on MDFCs 1.) 37 lands is what most decks play; half the time ppl still brick or flood (few exceptions). Imagine turning 2+ lands into playable cards as well as a land on the back. That’s less dead draws period. 2.) mdfcs are 90% budget friendly, with few exceptions, so they are vastly superior imo to other generic tapped lands, as well as scry lands, fast lands, storage lands, & memorials. 3.) deck building gets more interesting when the land slot can be adjusted and instead of 37 lands, imagine 35 lands and 3 mdfcs where you now have more land but more spells as well. That to me is vastly superior; not to mention that bouncelands like guildless commons can go in any deck and get the mdfcs back to hand.

[@Jerhevon]

@@Theanthill216 i generally agree with you on these points. Though I have been trying to include more Scry in my mana base as well even if it's like the common Scry filter lands just to further smooth out a deck's opening plays.

[@radvillainy]

I love Perplexing Test in my Sai, Master Thopterist. It lets you bounce all your artifact creatures back to hand without getting rid of your thopter tokens.

[@DaGraveCrowder]

The thing about MDFCs is that you can't consider each side on its own. You are correct that they are sub-par rates for their effect. Their strength that makes up for this is the fact they fill in for whatever you are missing at the time. They also have utility with Ravnica's bounce lands. I don't think you want to slam all of them into your decks, but they will keep you rolling at times when Blacksmith's Skill would be a dead card. Sejiri Shelter specifically can also be used offensively to push a creature through, or reduce blocking options for the opponent. I will say that you should make your decks the way you want, though :)

[@ZeIose]

As one of the flack givers of your video suggesting to run less or no MDFCs, I can say you did a better job of pleading your case today. I will say this in good faith though. I think we all realize that even a basic land is almost always better than an MDFC land when we need a land. And A basic spell that does the same thing as a MDFC spell is almost always going to be better. But a slightly worse land is always better when you need that land instead of the spell and visa versa. Also,not all MDFCs are as good as every other MDFCs. So I’m not suggesting every MDFC should be played because they exist. Lastly, they typically rule is MDFCs take up .5 of a land slot, not a full land slot. So I think almost every one agrees with you, that we shouldn’t be putting them in and removing lands for them at a 1:1 ratio. Thanks for the upload. I really enjoyed it. EDIT: I posted this before reading the comments and it looks like we are dogpiling again. Sorry lol.

[@sheahon1179]

In favor of Purplexing Test, think of it more as a fog/whipe. It isn't exactly perfect at either, but it is quite good. When your opponent attacks you with all tokens, you can fire this off like a fog

[@Magnafiend]

As for the MDFC stuff, aside from things like Malakir Rebirth that are just flat out good on the front, I mostly use the 2 color MDFCs that the front side fit the theme of my deck. I find they're more useful when running a deck with 3-5 colors where the issue isn't so much hitting your lands but hitting your colors, and the MDFC lands could end up being color fixing (albeit suboptimal fixing) stapled to effects you're already going to be using in your deck. In a less general sense, landfall decks or decks that care about lands. Necrobloom for instance LOVES MDFCs since it's now not a choice between a less good instant/sorcery and a less good land and more of a less good utility vs a TON of landfall triggers.

[@ianwhite7246]

My reason I ran plaza of heroes in my decks was mainly for low cost 3+ color commanders. It functioned as a untapped tri land most of the time for me which is why I still run it. The ability was just a bonus

[@thetruthisoutthere8714]

Plaza of Heroes is in my Shorikai deck... I've crewed Shorikai and saved him with this land a few times, and specifically in one game, I had a Thespian Stage which was a copy of Plaza, and saved Shorikai twice. People get mad that Shorikai isn't a creature, so turning him into a creature to save him from removal has been so satisfying. Certainly can't speak for anyone else, but I love that land.

[@avall0nNn1992]

MH3 Boltland-MDFCs are as free as is gets. Sink into stupor is nuts on a land, Witch Enchanter and Fell the Profane are inefficient removal BUT on an untaped land which makes them super free.

[@Alice_Haukea]

All interesting points. I've recently taken certain cards out of my decks a well. I've stopped using things like Smothering Tithe, Rhystic Study and the commander cycle free spells. Why? Because they are TOO powerful for a casual setting. I believe I better fit the play group by NOT running the most broken cards possible. And I also believe it makes me a better player when I learn to use more budget options and still pull off the win. I have been running Malakir's Rebirth in one of my decks for a while now, yet even after a dozen games, I've somehow never once drawn into it.... Like seriously....

[@donnellobrien1415]

There are 3 strong arguments for MDFCS; Some of the MDFCs are for a later stage of the game and I don't want a dead card if they are in my opening hand. I don't need Agadeem's Awakening, Ondu Inversion, or Kazuul's Fury early in the game, so it's nice that they can be my first land drop instead of a dead draw that sits in my hand all game. Especially if I have a tool to get them back in my land somehow when I need them. Other Cards, like Boggart Trawler and Sundering Eruption are niche answers to problems that will get out of hand if not dealt with but aren't always needed. There is opportunity cost for adding a Graveyard hate card into your deck if you end up at a table without graveyard synergy, or single target land destruction if there are no critical nonbasic lands to deal with. If it doesn't come up during the game I am in, it will count as my land drop and it doesn't stall my regular game plan where it isn't needed. Lastly, there are a couple of multi-color ones like Stump-Stomp, Legion Leadership & Revitalizing Repast that are nice effects to have sometimes, but worse case scenario they are a color fixing comes into play tapped land. These really are just like regular dual lands if you aren't playing a fast deck, but have the opposite benefit of the first MDFCs of not just being another land flooding my hand late game.

[@stevenkurinec4194]

When considering redundant effects on cards, I've started cutting the most situational cards in that category or the ones with the lowest low and replaced them with more draw. I've been using this mindset for the past few years and the decks just play better generally. You tend to draw into multiple good versions of your effects rather than settling for the times you get only the worst version. My new rule of thumb is to put just enough card draw in your deck that you start to feel uncomfortable, then its enough.

[@robertwilbrand3441]

I'm a big fan of MDFCs, but I've also started taking out Emeria's Call and Turntimber Symbiosis since MH3 introduced competition for that slot and they aren't freerolls anymore. I also don't remember ever using Emeria's Call and I think I used Symbiosis once. The latter is still fine in Ellie&Alan because I can hit it off of discover. The U, B and R ones (of the original mythic MDFCs) I still treat pretty much as auto-includes, although Shatterskull Smashing is certainly worse than the other two by a wide margin. I would also like to point out that the "downside" of being a worse land can be a secret upside when trying to accomodate Field of the Dead.

[@TheLycheegreentea]

flawless maneuver has always been a favorite of mine as I usually use lower cmc commanders. I find myself running more protection spells than removal as aggro seems to progress the games faster.

[@natethetoe386]

Agree with everyone except Plaza of Heroes. It can almost always be used for a mana of any color. As for the last ability. You don't need to use it. Just it's existence on the field is enough to make someone pick a different target.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

i agree, but i just don't play decks with lots of colors so it isn't needed.

[@RobThePrincess]

I agree, it's just a better reflecting pool, exotic orchard, etc. Great option for 3+ colors.

[@Phe0nix1986]

You definitely need to have some level of build around for MDFCs like using bounce lands to get the spell and the land or maybe playing a life gain deck to mitigate the life loss so your lands can come in untapped. Stuff like that will eventually make MDFCs good. But you’re right in general.

[@lracseroom8286]

It's weird that Flawless Maneuver is often free but is kinda unplayable because of Tef's Pro and a few other white wipe dodgers are better, but Heroic Intervention remains a staple because it's green's best option.

[@bartoszkitowski]

I put MDFCs in decks where I have huge draw. Same with lands with cycling. Eventualy in those kind of decks you will have a lot of lands in hand. Intent is to play them tapped in opening rounds and if i get them later to use them as spells or to draw more cards.

[@KingRon88]

The feeling of the flare of cultivation , sacrificing Yavimaya Elder feels great. Knowing to not miss a land drop for three turns and thin the deck out for potential better drawing thoughout the game. It's one less thing to worry about getting your colors.

[@ricardardevol9720]

I am also replacing Negate by Saw it coming in my decks, mainly because I lose more often to creatures with ETB than to noncreature spells...

[@AidanJacobs-jc7tp]

Totally agree on the MDFCs. I will usually finish a decklist and then remove 1 land and 1 spell for 2 MDFCs if there are good ones for the deck.

[@AidanJacobs-jc7tp]

That said, the ones that enter untapped are totally worth it. They’re basically modal lands.

[@RickyG93]

Agree with all except Flawless Manuever. No idea what you're on about there. 90% of board wipes are stopped by indestructible and the spell is 0 mana in the decks it should be in. Also what else even is there that can protect your whole board for such a low cost? Clever Concealment is the only thing I can think of. It depends on the deck of course, I mean you can definitely run other things if you only need to protect one creature, but odds are that one is usually your commander anyway so this spell is always free and if you need to protect your whole board often, Flawless Manuever is among the best ways to do so. It's saved me so many times in my R/W Neyali tokens deck I've lost count, and I can cast a board wipe along with it to make my board wipes asymmetrical which I've also done countless times and it won me the game almost every time. Also in terms of those MDFC lands, I think you're right, but Valakut Awakening is also a pretty good one.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

what i'm on about is that there are so many better options. clever concealment and flare of fortitude to name a few. i would say dawn's truce is also better. in fact a selfless spirit is likely better unless you're guaranteed to have your commander on board.

[@RickyG93]

@edhdeckbuilding Hard disagree excluding Dawn's Truce.

[@Seedmember]

Fleshbag Marauder, along with cruel edict were two of the reasons I made a Sigarda Host of Herons Voltron deck.

[@Dragon_Fyre]

With MDFCs it is hard to judge their effectiveness as you don’t tend to see it (more the absence of the issues they fix). They’re not great lands, they’re not great spells. They fix issues with both however for only one card slot. I do think they can be overrated but I wonder whether we will see a video in a few months saying “they’re going back in”.

[@Jerhevon]

When I'm including the MDFCs it's very much I'd like some more access to this effect, but I don't want to commit a full slot to it just sitting in my hand. And decks can get land clogged hands. It's true I don't want too many tapped lands, but I can spare a couple here and there.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

no, and in fact i'm re-evaluating all of them. i have been taking more mdfc's out of my decks because most of them fall into the same category. they do two things badly, and you can only do one or the other.

[@Dragon_Fyre]

@@edhdeckbuilding The offset is that better spells are useless if you are missing land drops and a bad spell can be much better than extra lands if you are getting flooded. I would not recommend too many MDFCs but 2-3 of the better ones can be useful in the right decks. It’s sort of like insurance. Overall it’s bad value (you typically pay more than you would ever get back) but it’s there for those worst case scenarios where your house burned down. My view is I’m not likely to lose a game in Commander because a land or two entered tapped. I may lose the game (and more importantly not enjoy the game) if I miss two lands drops and can hardly do anything.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

@@Dragon_Fyre 2 of the most important things a commander deck needs. protection and removal. i don't like playing worse versions. and if you're missing land drops then you have other issues to deal with.

[@Dragon_Fyre]

The ones I think I might use in the right decks would be Agadeems Awakening, Glasspool Mimic, Valakut Awakening, Sea Gate Restoration, Bala Ged Recovery, Disciple of Freyalise, Malakir Rebirth, Bloodsoaked Insight, Haven of the Harvest, Witch Enchanter, Kazuul’s Fury and Pinnacle Monk.

[@gemmen98]

I still run Fleshbag Marauder. I'm curious to what cards you go to it before it.

[@MrSzymonpik]

Love this card. I do play him in Savra. It gives me 4 death triggers, if i can loop him gives me 8 of them.

[@makesquash]

Plaguecrafter and Demons Disciple also hit plansewalkers, I do run Fleshbag in my zombie deck but they also just printed Accursed Marauder which is strictly better as a zombie.

[@nickklassen2791]

Accursed marauder

[@crawdaddy1234]

@@gemmen98 The big one is Plaguecrafter. Otherwise, Rankle, Master of Pranks; Braids, Arisen Nightmare; Accursed Marauder; Demon’s Disciple; Sheoldred’s Edict; Innocent Blood; Liliana’s Triumph; Soul Shatter; Mire in Misery…

[@JeffreyGoddin]

Fits perfectly into my Endrek Sahr deck, along with every single other creature with this effect.

[@benjaminnewman9828]

I kept perplexing text in a deck because I kept bouncing it and eternal witness to make a lot of tokens. Lots of fun

[@koboldqueen3055]

I find mdfc have to be in a deck made for them my shark deck ramps fast run spelunking and uses bounce lands alot. So mdfc go down as lands and late game come back to hand as useful spells.

[@shrimpboatgames8002]

Yavimaya Elder is great in my Zimone and Dina deck. Whether I use its own ability or Z&D, I get the lands for Z&D to put into play. It gets any basic, so it also color fixes, which is important for my deck. It is hard to find a slot for it in other decks. RIP to this commander staple lol

[@JcNanito]

18:46 definitely have that in my Jodah, The Unifier deck

[@dankoerner887]

Plaza of Hereos is such a great land

[@webbc99]

I never consider MDFCs as lands in terms of land count but they are excellent ways to include certain effects that aren’t always worth running lots of, whilst also getting 41+ lands in the deck to basically guarantee a smooth early game and hitting every land drop. I don’t like running loads of spot removal so having the MDFCs is great, it makes the card playable at any point in the game because it can always be a land. You can always pick them up with a bounce land and play the front side as well.

[@granite_4576]

I only play the mdfcs if I would cast the spell 60% of the time or more. And in my land count I consider them to be 0.5 of a land. Sejiri has done work for me but I'd always rather have the cantrip Shelter in any similar circumstance - not least for the iconic Christopher Moeller art

[@wolfsajin]

It’s interesting watching this video. At multiple of my LGS, we all play casual to high power. And none of these cards mentioned are considered “staples” nobody uses these cards. You may see an occasional hullbreaker horror, but even that is rare.

[@makesquash]

I only run Plaza of Heros in my Samut legends deck strictly for the color fixing since it pretty much can always tap for any color due to the amount of legendary cards. I think it’s specifically good for that, even though Ive never activated the second ability.

[@Iker888]

MDFC’s get better the more lands you play. Never miss a land drop, save the spell if you’ve got other lands in hand. The tempo loss of a tapped land is preferable to missing a drop or getting swamped.

[@valun360]

I agree with your shejiri shelter take. When I first saw it I put it in every white deck I had. But after playing with it for a bit I have taken it out of all of them except my budget voltron deck.

[@teferitoots8043]

Plaza of Heroes is VERY good in 3+ color decks . It is better than triomes. Untaped 5 color land . Always taps for colorless. The last line of text is gravy. You don't even need it.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

agree. and yes for me it isn't needed.

[@Nieko2k10]

what are some options for fleshbag marauder? i play him in my carmen deck, and all his others friends who do the same

[@edhdeckbuilding]

accursed marauder, demon's disciple and plaguecrafter are all better.

[@Nieko2k10]

@@edhdeckbuildingtrue, i play all of them.👌

[@d.a.d.-ohgosh]

I've never played the majority of these cards so no opinion on them. However I do play Flawless Maneuver in 1 deck and Plaza of Heroes in 2 decks. Flawless is in my Zabaz deck because he only costs 1 meaning I can get him out quickly and recast a couple times with no issue. So it'll almost always be free. Additionally the deck has a notable amount of artifact creatures so there's significantly more relevant removal spells that indestructible can actually stop (ex. Vandalblast). As for Plaza I play it in Shadrix Silverquill and Omnath, Locus of All because Shadrix plays a lot of Legendary creatures and Omnath needs as much protection as he can get since he's a big target. I agree neither should be splashed willy nilly. My previous comment said I would just talk about the MDFC'S but here I am. No self-control lol.

[@sifthegreat4570]

I only put yavimaya elder in my borborygmos and fblthp deck because i discard lands. But i also have a nostalgic connection to 8t

[@brendans1983]

Seen Sejiri Shelter take out a player once! Old mate had a board full of red creatures and low life, other player gave his Commander pro-red and slapped him down 🍻

[@r.w7987]

I have tyrite sanctum in my deck and i never used it's ability because our pod is too fast for me spending 6 mana to make my commander indestructible. When i saw this card i thought it is really strong but it's a lot to pay for this effect and then get your commander exiled.

[@johntrotter7372]

MDFC's vary, but I like shelter with any commander who needs the protection

[@bartoffer]

Fleshbag still makes the cut when it can have some synergy - in zombie tribal or party, for example. It's an all-star in my Burakos / Haunted One. Sejiri Shelter feels like a solid include for voltron, spellslinger, or heroic and otherwise is probably not as worthwhile. I think Elder no longer slots into generic-green, but it's still solid in Humans or non-black sacrifice decks. GB feels like it has better fodder, but Elder is phenomenal in my Gimli, Mournful Avenger alongside Primal Druid and Viridian Emissary. Moving towards a lot of cards being "good in specific areas" seems like it'd be great for the format, but I think a part of the issue is that a lot of these have been moved out by plain and pure power-creep. Rather than side-grades which offer tradeoffs and slowly start to pick up speed, there's just lots of strictly-better-by-a-large-margin ones dropping these last few years.

[@cread13]

I run flawless maneuver only in my token deck. Since the only real thing that hurts that deck is board wipes haveing an answer to most board wipes is still worth running it.

[@misterfox6094]

I still play fleshbag effects in certain decks but there are plenty of scenarios where the token player is getting outta control and I rly can't cast fleshbag without setting the other 2 players way back.

[@marcellosalis5063]

Interesting video. I have a slightly different opinion on some cards, but in general I mostly agree.

[@maximillionchaoswolf]

I would put having a high mana commander in the pro- flawless maneuver category, don't want to have to keep casting it.

[@enricobrasil]

Yavimaya Elder: 5 mana for 2 lands, a draw AND 1 block. And if you manage to give it persist, it's 4 lands. Too good!

[@JeffreyGoddin]

Have considered Hullbreaker for two decks recently, Merfolk with Prime Speaker Zegana which leans into Krakens and such, and kept Slinn Voda instead, and now Errant and Giada, which wants flash, but much as you, though I'm not sure what the wincon will be yet, I'd rather it wasn't the Hullbreaker, so he didn't make the cut again. Though on that note, had one played against me last week, though sadly, the player was holding a hand full of sorceries... I don't know, using Hullbreaker as a case study for most of the cards you present here, you summed it up in the beginning when you talked about power creep. For me, all of these cards are playable, all I'm hearing from you is that you play in groups where these cards don't cut it any more. Okay, but not super relevant to my play experience.

[@bloodoblivion787]

The modern horizon 3 mono color mdfcs are really good giving you the option to enter untap for 3 life, life is a reasorce and 3 life is nothing %99 of the time, i would rather have the option to have a abillity sometimes than it being a land %100 of the time.

[@christianlei2519]

I agree. The mdfcs that let you play the land untapped are amazing and people should be playing them in their decks.

[@MegaTrojan21]

I have not watched your video yet however I see Fleshbag Marauder in the thumbnail and I will not stand for any flush bag slander.

[@marcoottina654]

I like MDFC lands ehen i could get back in hand, like bouncelands (or Lair lands), "Multani, Yavimaya's Elder" if in green or "Ruin Ghost" if in white and the other side is a permanent. Otherwise ... Despite being cheap, i almost always feel bad for using either faces because i feel like wasting tempo or potentials. Sadly, because it's a neat design at first sight

[@Turn140]

Having run evacuation and perplexing test in my talrand deck. Evacuation is just the way to go. Even if i can keep my drakes 99% of the time the green white player has a million 1/1 tokens you want gone and evacuation just resets it all. I agree with you on that 100%

[@edhdeckbuilding]

this is what i found as well. so many token decks in the format now that just bouncing nontoken creatures doesn't do much.

[@DavidRodriguez-k9h]

I use Sejiri Shelter to make my creature unblockable in white. Protected creatures cant be blocked by creatures of the color choose.

[@syctheofsymphogear4290]

Well, i just bought an Nekusar deck for myself, which plays around with warped devotion, if you can remove the tokens your opponents lose their hand

[@SamySapphyre]

I really appreciated your discussion about MDFCs. Personally, I think they are a waste of a card slot for the most part, very rarely do they benefit decks (Malakir Rebirth is the 4th version of its effect in my Ziatora deck, for example). But otherwise I think they are overhyped and underwhelming for the most part

[@scaredycat3146]

I think Ondu Inversion is the only MDFC I'd put in a generic deck. But I never was much of a fan of MDFCs to begin with. Sure if I play a clone deck, I'll probably add Glasspool Mimic, but in all my other blue decks it's likely more a hindrance than a boon.

[@avall0nNn1992]

The Boltlands are as free as they can get. Enter untaped for 3 life is nothing and having an option instead of a Land is huge.

[@banditbiker5190]

Yavimaya is fire in landfall . It's in my Azusa deck.

[@patrickridenour6546]

Concerning mdfc's, you put it in your deck because it counts at 2 "bad" cards. And if they aren't that bad, then 2 bad cards equals 1 great one. Barely matters as long as both sides are playable. And a tap land is definitely playable, you just can't include too many. In my opinion of course, love ya demo!

[@jacobguy3343]

The only deck i would ever put perplexing test in is my Gimbal deck

[@zefiend]

hey Demo, nice video as always. you constantly tout "cards that have multiple uses, even if individually those uses are sub-par" in your other videos, but isn't that what a MDFC is? Physically it doesn't *look* like a "choose one" card, and maybe that is psychologically changing your opinion? Just something to think about as you mentioned physically looking at paper cards affecting our evaluation in a recent video.

[@entertainmentinc9735]

I’ve noticed that utility lands in general are really bad. My mana is better used for other things. The only utility lands I still like are Strip Mine effects, Maze of ith, Boseiju who endures, and Bojuka Bog.

[@DarkJusticeMetal]

I don't bother with Flawless Maneuver now that everyone in my playgroup has figured out the secret of exile/sacrifice removal. Try Erie Interlude or Ghostway

[@beatenbykarma]

I've seen other youtubers talking about going method 2. Power creep is the reason method 2 has become the default deckbuilding strategy, and for me, this is the beginning of the end for the format. When you fundamentally change the way players construct and play the game, there's no going back. When your Commander is an afterthought in a format called Commander, you're in trouble. They might not know it yet. They community might not know it yet. But the party is officially over. Commander was fun for me and my friends because we had to build a deck that found a way a way to create synergies between multiple cards with different unique abilities. We don't even play anymore. Our decks get too outdated too fast and the new cards just don't do it for us. Method 2 has become dominant because you no longer have to create synergies. Every card does everything on it's own now. So you build a cohesive strategy around a bunch of good stuff self-synergizing cards. And that directly contradicts the spirit of EDH. They took all the things about standard and modern that players were avoiding when they chose EDH as their format, and they brought all those things into EDH.

[@danieljones2936]

Once WotC started printing cards that where clearly designed for commander into standard sets the format was on the down hill. For me I believe this started to get really noticeable around the release of Ikoria. I stopped playing and paying attention because the format used to be "Hey there's a bunch of jank cards that don't work in a faster format, let's see what we can do with them in a longer format". Now it feels like "would you like to play modern, but with 3 other people instead of one. Also you can't play MLD, Stax, infect, or too much control because those 3 people will cry about it"

[@Shimatzu95]

I barely play mdfcs due to personal preferences, that said its good that they exist since it (usually) leads to greedier people actually playing more lands.

[@crawdaddy1234]

I’ve literally never put Negate in a deck.

[@trixterDevil]

I'm surprised some of these even count as commander staples... who's even ever heard of poison the cup? Maybe we should define what a staple is and isn't first?

[@blagerthorpnonersense1894]

The logic if Fell the Profane is that is negates mulligans. Yes it is a worse land and a worse removal spell but mulligans are worse than having slightly less efficient removal spells. You don’t get the logic of them in your deck at all.

[@brennanmohr7348]

Weirdly enough, with mdfc’s I’d usually rather have a basic land. They slow down the game so so so much or you take 3 damage, which is quite annoying.

[@crawdaddy1234]

@@brennanmohr7348 I would say they are harder to play the more colors you’re playing. But mono-color or two-color decks, you really won’t notice the loss of life. If the spell you want to play isn’t worth losing three life to cast it now… is that spell really worth playing?

[@mofomiko]

I still like them, especially the new Dual color ones. I'm still in the testing phase, and I just took out the check lands for them in my Naya deck (the ones where you have to show a basic land from hand)

[@27777BigRedBarn]

At 12:30 demo should have read the back of the card. Opening hand I see Fell the Profane. I have a potential untapped land or if I don't have a turn 1 Play I have tapped black source. Turn 5 I topdeck Fell the Profane and now I have an untapped land or a removal spell. Sorry demo I just think it has more situations where it's good (,not the best) but good. Late game is the only time I probably don't want to top deck this and even then I still have a removal spell. Idk just me I guess.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

replace it with a basic swamp. you have a turn 1 land that doesn't bolt you. turn 5 you have a land drop that doesn't bolt you. if you find fell the profane is saving your butt often, it's likely because you don't run enough removal.

[@scaredycat3146]

Yavimaya Elder is funny to me because I already cut that from my Meren deck back in 2015 because it played just too clunky for me. Never touched it since.

[@Jerhevon]

Elder reminds me a lot of Burnished Hart. Like I did similar with the Yavimaya Elder, it was never great, it was just a good role player. A card that if it comes up early it just solves problems. If anything I'd say the Elder is mostly power crept by both Springbloom Druid and all the common dual-typed lands that got printed. Which means the Wood Elves also do so much more to fix colors now.

[@matheuscomparini1663]

You gotta have something in your strategy to finish the game, you can't just tap their creatures until your opponents die 😂. Maybe Mesmeric orb so when people untap they mill, but then its the card that its doing all the work... Its a vicious cycle.

[@grillburgerdaq5121]

Plaza of heroes either does nothing or it wins me the game on my voltron deck. It’s funny how when you need it, you need it.

[@N1NJ4P1R4T3]

"It depends"

[@hanschristopherson8056]

I get the mdfcs are bad lands argument in color heavy decks but you play only like mono and two color decks so I don’t get the hate. They add versatility to your deck

[@Greatestnesss]

Wood Elves > Yavimaya Elder

[@tyrelledavenport106]

You put it in the deck because would you rather draw a land for an answer that isn’t perfect

[@dariocampanella7992]

Shame on me, I just put desyncronization and perplexing test in my copy artifact deck. I want to shoutout selective obliteration, this card is a better version of ravnica at war : great in a monocolor or artefact deck, will kill at least all non monocolor commander

[@AUNEDJ]

Would be great if you offer alternatives instead of just saying cards you cut from decks. Otheriwse it is the same as saying that cards are staples when most arent for ALL decks.

[@cj-c3135]

The MDFC lands that allow you to pay life are amazing, even the mdfc's rhat dont from MH3 are on average great. Also I really disagree with what you said about hullbreaker horror. Its definitely a card that is terrible for casual decks like what you were describing but for higher power metas it is a useful house.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

so what part do you disagree with? i said it's really powerful and it sounds like you agree.

[@cj-c3135]

@edhdeckbuilding The part where you said that it takes the win as if that is bad. It is fine to have win-cons in decks that need it, in fact most cards nowadays seem to be viable win cons so it just doesnt seem like its worth taking out of decks just because its good. The only exception should be lower power tables or thematic built decks.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

@@cj-c3135 do whatever you like. it just seems pointless to me to build a deck just to win with exsanguinate or expropriate.

[@sethvoNhaNdorf]

Plaza of heroes is just good mana fixing

[@Trance2400]

MDFCs are lands in my deck, with the bonus of being a spell. You're literally the guy that argues for including utility lands, including several that EtB tapped, for niche upside abilities. MDFCs are the same, including many good ones that can EtB untapped for a bit of life. So yeah, people don't understand that you promote including tapped utility lands, but don't like MDFCs. Bruh.

[@snethss]

I disagree with most of these. Mostly because I just used a lot of them.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

of course, they're all commander staples.

[@tylerstegman6846]

Not trying to sound rude but you are saying these were staples? I hardly ever see any of these. They were never really any good.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

check out the rest of the comments of people telling me i'm crazy for not playing these.

[@27777BigRedBarn]

Get around indestructible? Such as?? Blasphemous Edict/Farewell/,??? What else? Maybe a Living Death? Some of the black sac cards like Necrotic Hex? Red doesn't have anything like this? Blue bounces sure but I haven't seen many blue mass bounce spells other than Cyc Rift played on the reg. Maybe Hallowed burial but who's playing that??? Other than me of course. Maybe it's my play group and community but Flawless is still amazing. Never sad to see it in my hand.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

try flare of fortitude. it's miles better.

[@27777BigRedBarn]

@edhdeckbuilding both are good. And I want redundancy in that effect so I run them both. Along with Galadriel's Dismissal and Dawn's Truce. Especially in the decks where my commander is particularly loathed. Like Voja.

[@williamharrington3595]

i don't understand why you play commander, and why you consider yourself "casual". You say your decks don't really need the commander and you're always changing stuff due to power creep.... like... that's not really the spirit of the format and it's not very casual

[@Vorniforous]

Hmm idk I play high power

[@konnmehameha]

Everyone is gonna play differently. The community needs to be more accepting. Including himself if he plays high power he should be aware of that when playing people who are low power players.

[@radvillainy]

I know right? I can't believe he doesn't realize the "spirit of the format" is to never update your deck and make sure your whole gameplan revolves around one card! So many people just don't understand this format, it's almost like they want to build decks they ""enjoy playing""

[@alexanderficken9354]

I mean he can do what he wants lol just because he puts a lot of effort into deck construction doesnt mean he isnt playing casually

[@RoflCannon6]

The spirit of the format died a long time ago when wizards started making cards specifically with commander in mind. Updating your deck is also completely normal and if your deck can’t run without your commander then you’re going to be in hot water if it gets killed a lot.

[@crawdaddy1234]

I honestly think discussing cards that see too much play is way more interesting than cards not seeing enough play.

[@granite_4576]

Agree actually. "why doesn't this see more play?" "It's 5 mana"

[@edhdeckbuilding]

so there is a very specific reason i do one way more than the other. and you can read the comments of this video to find out why. "HOW DARE YOU!"

[@crawdaddy1234]

@ Without going here yet, I would imagine that part of it is that there are just way more cards that are underplayed than cards that are overplayed. 😂

[@Brennows]

First

[@Wolf462]

It comes down to intention when deck building. It seems like you forget this when you make these types of videos? Power is a sliding scale, as you know. When deck building you must decide the purpose of the deck, who you will play it against, how fast it will be etc. So if you are playing commander for fun, and just want to “do stuff” then tap lands and bad modal cards are probably fine if you desire that type of flavor. But if you want to smash heads at your lgs or owe some friends some revenge then yes, take out all the sub-par bullshit so you can win lol! But I might be really stoned right now and missed the whole point of the video, just sayin.