Commander Staples That Aren’t Worth the Price | The Command Zone 518 | Magic The Gathering EDH

[@commandcast]

Do you agree with our conclusions? Which Commander staples do you think aren’t worth the price tag? What cards do you use instead?

[@taode.]

mana crypt definitely isn't worth the almost $200 price tag. It's good, but not THAT good.

[@DoubleOhSilver]

The list is good, everyone should just proxy

[@BionMTG]

As a general rule of thumb, I try to include at least half a dozen cards that are

[@johanneskaramossov5103]

I agree after a bit of thinking with the fierce Guardianship but for a different reasoning. Thing is if you play more than 1 or 2 counters, your commander often is expensive so he might not be out by the time you need the fierce guardianship, on the otherhand if you need counter's for the early to mid game you are not done with just 3 or 4 counterspells/ ways to counter spells, wich is why i think spells like mana drain Force of Will and Swan song shouldn't have been in there, yes stubborn denial, the bog old Counterspell or counters that have secondary functions like Jwari disruption are cheaper and should fill more slots but in the end if you run control heavy and in early game especially in mono blue control can rely heavily on counterspells picking up something like Manadrain or one of the 0 Mana counterspells really changes the game, because for a 100 Card singleton format there arent that many decent cheap counters

[@rynvord]

Well, no. Problem is not with cards, they are good and playable cards, problem is they should be reprinted tons to lower the price and allow playing them by any deck. Currently there will always be player(s) who will happen to open them and well, play them (coz why not to put it in the deck if you already have one). Yes some of them have minor edge over cheaper replacement,however if you play in aplaygroup that does not constituted yesterdayand is not composed of completely new to mtg players - you want that edge. Thus - the option, which we follow always - is proxy. Untill those cards willbecome affordable so you can happily unproxy them. (this is the state of mtg we are in sadly)

[@redbirdriot]

This is a great topic for discussion. I'm a strictly budget player, and it's one thing to have someone talk about a "bunch of good budget cards." It's quite another to have the deckbuilding discussion of "what would Craterhoof do here if I had it, and then what should I look for to get that similar effect." I really appreciate the in-depth discussion on particular cards, what the aim is, and what you can look for to replicate that effect. Nicely done!

[@commandcast]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed the episode.

[@rdirizarry1]

Agreed! This was a great episode to see.

[@tantordoe5958]

My printer has definitely been helping with my journey to budget play 🙏🏼

[@jerrywilliams5941]

​@@rdirizarry1 ,,

[@c2w200]

Damn I didn’t know finale was that price I have a foil promo one 😅

[@jamesworleyiii2797]

What I'm gathering from this episode is this: if you already have any of these cards, fine - play them! However, they are not necessarily the most cost-effective cards for doing what you want to do, so don't feel you need to purchase them. It's a great episode that can help both the newer players plus some of those (like me) who sometimes fall victim to the flashy appeal of older, more powerful, or expensive cards.

[@apiranha1]

Mana crypt is a better sol ring. How is it not worth it?

[@jamesworleyiii2797]

@@apiranha1 As I said before, if you already have a Mana Crypt, then by all means play it. But, it is a $200 card which might be out of reach for some people. Sop Ring is a $2 card. When budgeting is at the forefront of deck building, the Sol Ring is the the obvious choice. Players should not feel obligated to spend a lot of money when there are cards that provide 80% of the value at 1% of the cost (in your example).

[@apiranha1]

@@jamesworleyiii2797 you know what’s better than a sol ring in a deck? A sol ring and a mana crypt. This video is strictly about “what cards are worth it”, so if a better version than THE BEST CARD in the game isn’t worth it, that means anything above $100 isn’t worth it. Which is just foolish.

[@OhNoTheFace]

@@apiranha1 For most people with other real responsibilities and expenses, yes, anything that crazy is a waste. It's better but not spend 200 dollars worth it

[@brandonspivey5282]

@@apiranha1 It's 200 fucking dollars that's how

[@sulakkalus]

I can’t imagine this group saying it but… proxy proxy proxy. My group’s rule is if you own one copy of a card, you can proxy it for whatever other decks you want to build.

[@jacobmonks3722]

They have said this in a previous podcast. It was a while ago.

[@DoubleOhSilver]

Just proxy even if you don't. Otherwise it remains pay to win.

[@FUNANIME100]

There supported by Wizards so I don't think they can really tell that.

[@brennanclement8582]

No card is worth more than 30 cents since that's how much a beautifully printed proxy costs. If you aren't taking your deck to a sanctioned tournament then there's no reason to run a real card over a proxy.

[@chrisdomingo9143]

I proxy everything lol even the basics … saves me a ton of money

[@philippniemann8842]

59:27 morbid opportunist - it is my favorite black draw spell and I think it is totally underrated

[@drpibisback7680]

One thing I've seen pointed out is that the way Morbid Opportunist is phrased makes it seem a lot worse than it is. The addition of "only once per turn" makes you think about how many more cards it could be drawing, rather than the fact that it will almost certainly draw more cards per turn cycle than a phyrexian arena in a reasonably interactive pod.

[@BigHack32]

High five for whoever added the timestamps!

[@Taranasaurus1]

Second this, makes returning to the video for reference much more doable! Keep up the great work team

[@enriquemeza5291]

Makes it easy to skip the ads!

[@yuen4817]

People like me need this for when I revisit these videos

[@jimmyburns411]

Love seeing this discussion! Due to the ever-increasing prices on cards, my playgroup and I have decided to start proxying all of our cards. But, for those still going for that WOTC cardboard, I think this is a great guide.

[@necrogenesis1981]

There’s especially no point if you already have a copy, but even if I don’t I refuse to buy legit copies of certain cards and the random playgroups I find just have to accept it.

[@Cynsham]

@@necrogenesis1981 The majority of pods don't even really care, unless the cards you're proxying put your deck way above the power level of the others at the table. I haven't run into almost anyone that seriously cares about proxies, they all understand that people have lives and responsibilities and can't afford to be putting 100+ dollar real versions of cards into every list.

[@necrogenesis1981]

@@Cynsham I know, that’s been my experience too but some people are sticklers which is dumb because it’s a casual format.

[@drpibisback7680]

​@@necrogenesis1981 In my experience the real trouble is sanctioned events. Most of my gameplay comes from my LGS's Commander League - which is a sanctioned event. They could lose their business relationship with WOTC if they don't enforce ownership, which would be devastating. So you can proxy your commander decks, but if you ever want to play them at an organized event you're fucked.

[@bradbeeler5022]

I would love to see an Extra Turns episode showing off budget decks around 100-150 dollar range. It would be interesting and refreshing.

[@Jwhiz24]

Budget decks are great! You can still make incredibly powerful decks for $100, and you get to experiment with cards which wouldn't otherwise see play.

[@bennettwadekamper8238]

For sure. I have a hard time identifying with a lot of build advice. Since I'm not willing to shell out the cash for even modderatly expensive cards.

[@nchomeier]

"budget"...? For 100+ dollars?! o.O How about S***Lander instead? THAT's a budget list! :D

[@nikolamatasin3877]

There's quest for the janklord in the meantime

[@chickennoodles4491]

ive been wanting this ever since I first started watching game knights 6 years ago

[@musicforlive92]

34:23 I’m so glad that you guys mentioned Stubborn Denial. It’s one of my most loved budget counterspells and I run it in most of my decks with a 4 power commander (which is a lot) and I think it is quite underrated.

[@longdangley]

power 4????

[@musicforlive92]

@@longdangley Stubborn Denial hardcounters any noncreature spell if you control a creature with power 4 or greater. Otherwise the spells controller could easily pay 1 mana to negate that counter. With a commander with at least 4 power you always have access to the hardcounter part of stubborn denial.

[@bluehabs]

Because my blue deck low power and low mana (yuriko/edric) I use abrade instead for cheap counter. It's 1 mana counter and additionally, have synergy with yuriko if the all unblockable isn't ninja and opp already have blocker.

[@Schnecken]

@musicforlive92 Does Stubborn Denial counter when you have a power 4 or greater creature still counter only noncreature spells or all spells?

[@musicforlive92]

@@Schnecken it still counters only noncreature spells.

[@xanderjones6239]

Rachel, bringing the topics, for the people. I think budget is gonna be a hotter topic, since this game is getting out of reach for a lot of people because of price.

[@graysonchristian2668]

Yeah I think a big problem is that people keep buying staples instead of say synergetic decks. Which is really how you build competitively on a budget. If you can’t do the staples but make your deck full of synergies you’ll be able to compete and win. It’s a way of deck building Mitch at The Command Quarters used to subscribe too. But even he’s stopped espousing it. Even though it used to be his model for deck building.

[@Skyfysh]

I have friends who won’t even touch the game because of the stigma of cost that surrounds it, even though the game itself interests them.

[@tgdady7978]

@@Skyfysh Surely they can enjoy the game with a 30dolls preconstructed then.

[@tgdady7978]

@@graysonchristian2668 No really....there is a reason why mana crypt is in 84 per cent of the decks reaching top 8 of CEDH tournament.

[@graysonchristian2668]

@@tgdady7978 yeah I’ve actively stared removing Crypt and other fast mana from my decks. Especially if I want them to be more fun and not as competetive. My CEDH deck has them. But my others really don’t. Unless they have a real need. Some decks simply don’t function without fast mana. I have an X spell deck for example. Without fast mana that deck won’t work. However I also have a clue deck. Which runs 0 fast mana spells. And a Bela’kor demon tribal deck that also runs 0 fast mana.

[@MetFreak42]

@42:14 Man, I was so stoked when I recently cracked a foil Vampiric Tutor in retro frame ($90 card on CardKingdom!) from a Dominaria Remastered Set Booster. The most expensive card I own now... For a poor blue-collar from South Central MN, sparks that same kind of joy you get from like, winning at pull-tabs or something. Second most expensive is a foil Chromatic Sphere from Invasion ($80-$85 on CardKingdom).

[@agutie616]

Building my first commander deck this weekend 🤘🏽

[@bluevader13]

What are you building as your first deck? bit curious

[@commandcast]

How exciting! What are you building?

[@philippniemann8842]

Have fun 😊

[@howardjones1388]

​@@Rayquaza894 or he can go buy singles from his LGS and support them. Proxy people are annoying.

[@xaxscratchxax926]

@@howardjones1388 😆

[@jamesbaird1926]

This is a great episode. As a semi-new player I am always trying to find cards "like" powerful cards that are cheaper but still effective and this is a great resource for those. Thanks!

[@benshackelford3014]

I wish Josh went into more detail about why he cut duals from his Game Knights decks As a new player I can say that seeing people casually dropping $300+ card on turn 1 on Game Knights made it feel like there was a much larger financial barrier to the game than there actually was.

[@chaffenbake]

Although the reason is still kind of rooted in the high monetary value, Dana from EDHRECast is another person who has taken ABUR duals out of his decks. I believe it was for an Ardeen and Esior equipment based deck, where the early Tundra play drew attention to him earlier than he would have wanted specifically because other players were linking the card's price with other potential cards in the deck. Essentially, it was broadcasting a signal he didn't really want it to about a level his deck wasn't playing at, so it got the cut. I don't know if that's similar/the same as Josh's perspective, but that's one potential aspect of it.

[@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299]

LOL And here I just keep making proxies of Duals for myself and no one has been annoyed or targeted me early ;p

[@felipearaujodominici3057]

I was showing a girlfriend of mine a game of Extra Turns, and someone (i think it was DJ) casually dropped i think 2000$+ worth of cards in a turn, so i jokingly said "did you know he just played 10k of our currency worth in cards right now?" and she was just totally in denial

[@flangeinspector9959]

Well for one thing you have the battle bond lands that are going to function exactly like one of the original duels in a commander game. Also the two life you pay for the shock lands has never been significant in any game I've played.

[@malakimphoros2164]

​@@flangeinspector9959 These are kinda expensive though

[@patrickheimstra5630]

I have adopted a unified commander pool. I've trimmed my entire collection down to one copy of each card. Really makes your card choices for decks much more synergy oriented. In my opinion of course. Works for me, but may not be other's cup of tea.😊

[@imanujakku]

Yea i like this too. You really have to make tough and interesting choices about which decks get what.

[@Thunderkeg]

Oh I do this and just proxy a copy for other decks I want to play it in. I can only play one deck at a time so why should I have more than one copy?

[@alexandergartner8877]

Do you count cheap utility like Sol Ring, Arcane Signet, Sad Robot, Rampant Growth, Swords to Plowshares, Thrill of Possibiity, Night's Whisper, Counterspell? Just curious.

[@motta_jh]

It's GREAT to see you guys making content that's not a set review. This is the kind of content that I love. One episode per set would be nice but too many feel overwhelming.

[@epicwilmer1]

A thing to note here: The prices they mention are for the US/north american market, I was quite shocked when they revealed the price for doubling season since i bought a copy of it for about 50$ last summer, but some research showed that the price for many of these cards in Europe (cardmarket) can be as low as 50% of the US/North american one (cardkingdom/starcitygames). Not all cards, some have similar or basically the same price but for those outside the US/north american market this video isnt quite as relevant when judging from a cost perspective.

[@lookwhatcovelydid]

Can I just say how much I love Rachel Weeks hosting?? She's amazing!

[@spellbreakerunbound]

Thanks for doing time stamps, they’re a massive help!

[@duwomp]

My Rhystic Study was 100% worth the price, i found it in a bulk bin at a games store. It was not a trading card store so they only carried bought/sold bulk, and i found my rhystic study in there, less than a cent for it, lmao

[@przemekkozlowski7835]

When I got back into Magic, I discovered that I still had a a box of trash commons from that era. Found myself seven Rhystic Studies. Back then it was unplayable in every format so people regularly would throw them out after drafts.

[@Ryne91]

That's always awesome. It's a card I'll never run personally. I used to have it, and I just didn't have fun with its triggers.

[@KyeGuard]

One man's trash...lol

[@apiranha1]

@@przemekkozlowski7835how was it unplayable? Draw is the single best thing you can do in any format. Seems to me your groups just weren’t great at magic.

[@apiranha1]

@@Ryne91”I didn’t enjoy winning”, kk

[@bryandegroat857]

As a budget guy myself, I loved this episode. I'm constantly looking for budget versions of commander staples. The only time I have expensive cards in my deck, I traded for them or pulled them in a pack. Also check out Quest for the Janklord or Commanders Quarters. Super fun and efficient decks for a fraction of the cost!

[@GhreiVA]

23:07 You know, Dragon Throne of Tarkir can do this too. It gives the creature you equip it with defender, but it gives its power to every other creature you control and also grants them trample. Suddenly, you may have 3 creatures but one is giant, and giving two more that giant power and trample, and it turns into a player knockout. It also combos really well in defender-focused decks. it's one of my favorites, especially in my Stonebrow deck.

[@GhreiVA]

Forgot to mention, but it's also about 4 cents at market price.

[@midnightlemon4255]

I love this card. It's 9 mana if you want to play it and do it all at once, but for a Colorless overrun it's great

[@xTobsecretx]

Aaah idk that card is kind of copium. Leaves open a lot more points of interaction.

[@midnightlemon4255]

@@xTobsecretx Sure, but it's Colorless. Not every color has access to strong overrun effects

[@durandalbbcom]

I also recommend Vitalizing Wind as a budget Craterhoof. Instant speed matters and is always +7+7. Chef's kiss

[@TheClocktowerCrew]

I honestly super love Rachel in literally any video she is in. She is super fun to listen to, and I honestly learn a LOT from her. Super underrated, I definitely appreciate seeing her more

[@mophl]

Agreed, but also, I miss the dynamic duo and their singing intros.

[@olivierdebilde4292]

Agreed 100%. She has super strong insights on any kind of decks. And a huge knowledge pool of cards to base her facts on. She's a super great addition to an already awesome cast.

[@TheRandomeDud3]

For counter spells: I love "Saw it coming". Perfect counterspell, especially if it's foretold. For damage enhancers: Obosh the Preypiercer is fun. For tutors: Diabolic Tutor is my favorite; I also love Varragoth, Bloodsky Sire.. The boast ability is a repeatable tutor and the showcase version is under $3.

[@surfinggarchomp2820]

The issue with saw it coming is just the amount of other options: counterspell, arcane denial, wash away, and an offer you can’t refuse are all pretty cheap options that I’d say are better

[@TheRandomeDud3]

@@surfinggarchomp2820 true, but being able to foretell it is handy along with the fact that it works well in decks where blue is splashed. If you’re looking for budget counter Magic, it’s a solid option at .25

[@surfinggarchomp2820]

@@TheRandomeDud3 it’s not bad, I just like some other things better. That’s what I was trying to say. I like it, but I only have so much room for countermagic

[@LouisKing995]

@@TheRandomeDud3 If you can reliably fortell is without sacrificing another two drop like ramp or draw etc then it’s ok. But if it just sits in your hand at 3 mana then it’s bad bad bad

[@charliemarlow647]

Also a big fan of Saw it Coming if you have any other foretell card in your deck. Just having a card foretold if your opponents know your deck they'll be wary of it and try to play around it, even if it's a different card.

[@enternamehere5498]

I am listening to the podcast version of this, and wanted to put this out there. One of the casual things, everyone does is assume we know what kinds of strategies are out there. Aristocrat Enchantress etc etc As a newish player I'd love an episode where someone sits down and explains them all (or at least all the known versions).

[@matthewcox69]

To this day, I don't actually know what Aristocrat is.

[@malakimphoros2164]

​@@matthewcox69 Basically you sacrifice your own creatures for value

[@yuzulemonvt]

building my first commander deck right now (tatyova, benthic druid) and keeping it budget, since I sadly got layed off my job recently so this is super helpful!! Burgeoning and Exploration I eyed for example! but it is not in my budge... but there are sooooo many land cards, it is crazy!

[@ingolf82]

I suggest looking up "Commander's quarters". he builds 50 $ decks. he started out with 25 $ decks, hence the name of the channel. he built a 25 $ version 4 years ago, maybe you can get some inspiration from that video, it's on his channel. just remember that it's a 4 year old video, so prices and stuff aren't accurate.

[@nickhughes8179]

Here's some budget land ramp. Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Rampant Growth, Harrow, Dawntreader Elk, Beanstalk Giant, Burnished Hart, Font of Fertility, Fertilid, Solemn Simulacrum, Roiling Regrowth, Springbloom Druid, Search For Tomorrow, Farhaven Elf, Wood Elves, Dreamscape Artist, Silkwing Scout, and Armillary Sphere. If you've got $15 to spare, then grab Nature's Lore, Three Visits and Skyshroud Claim. Some cheap utility lands to grab would be Cryptic Caves, Rogue's Passage, Ghost Quarter, Ghost Town, Simic Growth Chamber, Hinterland Harbor, Halimar Depths, Blighted Woodland, Khalni Ambush MDFC (Back side of card is a land), and Khalni Garden.

[@cjlee996]

Let me know if you need help.

[@pascalsimioli6777]

​@@cjlee996 Sure trust the internet stranger lol

[@sandimtavares]

Very nice episode. Playing Magic is getting more expensive by the day, unless you use online playing tools that essentially give you part of the experience for free. I think a topic that would be very interesting would be for you to dive more into your house rules, I was surprised with the no mulligan sol ring rule and banning crypt. I'd love an in depth one with you discussing your existing (and maybe popular community) house rules.

[@tilaniebresler3047]

Perfect episode! We, as a community, needed this. Thanks guys

[@KCEBGaming]

I run both Doubling Season and parallel lives in my Squirrel deck as backup synergy. I won a pod the other day with doubling season just because I was making 8 squirrels a turn off of Gala Greeters. 5 mana is a lot, but it’s also in green where mana is more abundant. So I agree, think carefully about Doubling Season and if it fits your strategy.

[@Shawn-f3x]

Innkeeper’s Talent is not an overhyped card, *and* a lot of players still won’t react to it like they will a Doubling Season. I know you’re using the Token half, but felt it should be mentioned. Bloomburrow Class Enchants are cracked on a MH3 power level.

[@danik2834]

I pulled a Mana Crypt in a booster pack and traded it right away for 6 awesome cards! don't regret it!

[@AwakenedAvocado]

I'll give you $1.50

[@apiranha1]

“I traded the best card in magic for 6 decent cards!”

[@ty_sylicus]

21:23 Pathbreaker Ibex is another good option I enjoy as it's repeatable. It does lack the ETB surprise unless you grant it haste. Cards runs about 15 dollars. Thunderfoot Baloth is a strong budget alternative that grants your team +2/+2 and Trample. This one does work the turn it enters, but only works as long as your have your commander in play. This card is under a dollar.

[@evolutionXXVII]

At my local game store, more than half the people run mana crypt. Dropping that on turn 1-3 virtually guarantees a loss for that player. Cost aside, it does not do enough to make up for the hate it generates. If I don’t know who to hit early on, it’s going to be whoever has $500 on the battlefield.

[@alanli6276]

I mean if you're going by a turn 1-3 logic then wouldn't playing a sol ring have done the same thing at $1. Does playing a sol ring early virtually guarantee a loss for that player? Because I bet more than half the people at your LGS are using sol ring. Or is it purely a spite thing because they played an expensive card.

[@spudster8887]

Decks I run crypt in are generally gonna wrap the game up by turn 6, so 3 decks pointed at me aren't gonna be able to kill me fast enough

[@evolutionXXVII]

@@alanli6276 Mechanically there's no big difference between a sol ring and mana crypt, but psychologically there's a huge difference. If I see a sol ring on turn 1, it doesn't tell me anything else about what's in that player's deck. If I see a mana crypt, it tells me that player is willing to pay any price for any card that will make their deck more powerful. That's either a legitimate threat-assessment signal, or just me trying to justify my own spiteful threat assessment. Either way, I'm not the only person making that assessment because I'm not getting the killing blow on all those mana-crypy-playing players.

[@cha0sniper]

​@@alanli6276 for me it's definitely a spite thing. As noted philosopher Steven Tyler said, eat the rich :P

[@jacobalbert2603]

@@spudster8887 if the other decks in the pod shoot to win by turn 3...... your logic is flawed

[@DoubleOhSilver]

Doubling season is just too powerful, same with vorinclex. They're just kill on sights. At least primal vigor makes things way more fun because everyone gets the benefit but not everyone is able to benefit at the same rate. Sometimes nobody wants to destroy it.

[@spudster8887]

I don't get how everyone getting a card makes the game more fun personally

[@cha0sniper]

​@@spudster8887 found the control player :P Jk, the reason is often that it's a powerful effect that normally people want to remove, and you can dodge that if you give it to everyone. Since it's in your deck though, you usually can take more advantage of the effect than your opponents can.

[@Beesechurger_73]

I own most of the cards you mentioned, some I even opened out of packs, thankfully. Very grateful.

[@RudolphCookie]

weird flex but ok

[@theycallmelittletoe]

I have a prophecy foil rhystic study, here is my weird flex

[@legonwood]

The other thing I feel is worth noting on Rhystic Study is it is also a card that slows down the game in terms of time given you have to keep checking wether the one was paid and also by the nature of having to keep checking that it can result in your opponents being really annoyed with you

[@semicolon_cancer1243]

Can we make sure the next time Avenger of Zendikar is played in a Game Knights/Extra turns episode that you add Rachel's sound effect? Please and thank you.

[@justincolussy-estes8447]

Thanks so much for this episode! So interesting and useful. I've really been enjoying the last several episodes-- I'll be honest, I've taken to skipping set reviews entirely. But deep dives into infect vs. toxic, conventions, and bang for your buck staples? I could listen to that kind of thing all day (and have and will!)

[@TheRandomeDud3]

For the dual lands, I will get gond gate out first and then boom all the guildgates come in untapped. .59 to make all of your guildgates come in untapped? uh yes please. It also works out great for if you're using Maze's End and then you have a repeatable fetch land. Maze's End is also $2.39.. Speaking of fetches, the slow fetch lands from Streets of New Capenna are phenomenal, plus you also gain a life with getting the basics.

[@officeman15]

Pair the New Capenna fetches with a Chromatic Lantern and you can tap them for mana before sacrificing them 😉

[@robertsweeney7040]

Love this discussion and alternatives!! By the by - the background effects (birds flying for example) are neat!

[@Xylak]

I'd say Cyclonic Rift is one of those kinds of cards. Nobody likes seeing it at the table, it's nearly $40, and while the effect is very strong and good it isn't the only card that does what it does, it's just the best at it. Cyclonic Rift is an instant which is hard to beat, but cards like Flood of Tears is a similar board effect in blue that even lets you recover quicker when you play it on your turn for less than a dollar. River's Rebuke is a card that was on Game Knights once and is a personal favorite, a single target board bounce that can act as a political tool. Coastal Breech is about $5 and is a (usually) 4 mana board wipe. Heck, Devastation Tide, with all the topdeck manipulation blue can do, can very easily be a 2 mana board wipe (miracle cost) at the start of your turn. There are significant downsides to all of these cards, clearly cyclonic rift is so popular for a reason, but these are definitely worth throwing in a deck if you can't afford one, especially since blue really needs at least 1 full board effect like that.

[@misterplus306]

Really appreciate the timestamps, good job team!😃

[@gianfrancodaristotile5865]

You are playing a hazezon deck too?!?!? I love mine and I don’t know that many people that were interested in him when he came out besides me. Probably have a similar brew to yours just happy to see one of my favorite decks to play getting the love it deserves

[@waynehay79]

Thankyou for this. I had been thinking about doubling season pretty hard and it's awesome to have some alternative arguments in my head for why I don't need to spend that much on it :)

[@Gshadewolf14]

I’ve never heard someone make a better impression of what Doubling Season and Avenger of Zendikar does than Rachel. That was perfect 😂

[@jamessheffield9091]

This feels like it could be one of your much earlier episodes (I mean that as a compliment!), I can see myself coming back to this one every once in a while.

[@Frankenstein3r]

surprised gaea's cradle didn't make the list. It definitely makes your deck better but there are some cheaper but less good replacements like growing rites of itlamoc and circle of dreams druid.

[@jolteon345]

Also there’s a good chance that Gaea’s Cradle is worse than an Elvish Guidance or Arbor Elf. With 1 mana that Gaea’s cradle is an $600+ Forest without the land type, and at 2 mana it usually isn’t worth the price either.

[@justinmm2]

Thank you for including chapter markers!

[@MINEvsWILD1]

Rachel is doing an amazing job on these podcasts!

[@Arcko9]

Just popped in to say that a great corner case for Imperial Seal is in Prosper Tome-Bound, I use it in my playgroup regularly to guarantee what I put into exile next with Prosper which can be a great way to help protect against my groups strategies. And it also allows in that scenario to visibly present an answer or threat you might have for someone that tries to interfere with your boardstate, I've definitely grabbed Rakdos Charm and then stared across the table at the token player daring them to play their sac outlet this turn.

[@graysonchristian2668]

Imperial Seal and Vampiric Tutor are your best friends in Prosper

[@babies_eve]

Like many players I started with a group of four other players. I immediately rushed to build decks with all of the cards basically here. I was tearing apart decks for only having 50% winrates. I was the only one playing cards like this. Thank heavens one day I realized I wasn’t playing the same game as my play group and scrapped almost all of them. Our world has been much more interesting since then.

[@Spike-hl2mw]

50% win rate in commander is pretty good, assuming a 4-person pod, for which perfectly average is 25%.

[@babies_eve]

@@Spike-hl2mw it was actually really, really negative for the other players and I didn’t realize it. Essentially they were just settling into a game around turn 6-8 and I’d have a tutor or top deck into a combo win each game.

[@Garl_Vinland]

I would of just kicked you out of the group or netdecked Thoracle proxy to beat you every game as a “lesson” that Magic is not a balanced game

[@Martin.1127]

⁠@@babies_evesettling in at turn 6 to 8……

[@jayhaviland4708]

I love seeing Dimir House Guard being mentioned. Not enough people know about my boy. Love him in my Ayli deck. Almost all of my important engine pieces cost 4 mana and if I already have my token creators or my card draw in hand, he's also a free sac outlet.

[@kiprockwood5232]

It's barely over 1% chance you'll see any card at start of a game. Every card you draw raises that chance by a fraction of a %. If you have the money to drop on anything feel free. If you don't. Just think of that. I have a rystic study I haven't seen in many times of playing the izzet deck it's in. Obviously tutors and card draw improve the odds but not alot.

[@DarkPikachuYTV]

I don’t see Esper Sentinel ever on turn one ever

[@lukeevans7173]

This is a great episode. I think it's a really fruitful topic, as it addresses both the financial cost of the game but isn't just a moan-fest. You focus the conversation on card evaluation and encourage players to think through what their decks might need.

[@BigDiff7]

And if you need these cards so badly, you have a couple options: - Use your friendly neighborhood printer and proxy it. - Wait for Commander Masters this summer. At least half of these cards will likely be in the set, reducing its price by some non-zero amount.

[@mikepentz3902]

The min max best cards in MTG usually have a price tag to match their power level. I spent loads on a C EDH deck (tymna and thrassios) and found that none of my friend grp wants to play the deck. Now a days, I wish I hadn't spent the 4k+ getting an outstanding deck and built something silly that everyone can enjoy. It is nice to say I have a deck that wins on 3rd turn (on average) but when I play the deck I end up shuffling more than playing (tutors and start of the next game shuffling). Love the content. I've been a fan for years. Keep on keeping on.

[@SmugLookingBarrel]

Another option I want to put forward as an alternative to the fast mana artifacts, at least for Red or Black decks, are rituals. They might not fill the exact same role as something like a Mana Crypt but if your goal is to cast your commander early, I'd rather spend 1 dollar on a Dark Ritual than 120 dollars on a Jeweled Lotus, and it's only one turn slower. Red doesn't have a perfect equivalent, but Seething Song gets the same rate as Dark Ritual while Mana Geyser will really help you power out your spells, and some decks have options that are even better like Songs of the Damned and Battle Hymn. None of these are as consistent as using the fast mana rocks but they're like a dollar.

[@mtgunveiled874]

Every time I've had a Doubling Season, I envisioned all the cool things I would do. Then I'd cast it, it would get removed immediately and I'd later pawn if off for dollars. Worked out in the end haha.

[@damianbouras]

The only commander I play that truly benifits from doubling season is ghave guru of spores. And even then I only bought it because I could get it for €20 instead of the 35 it was going for back then

[@Pcervelli11]

Super helpful video as I am new to commander. Thank you .

[@jacobmonks3722]

My price limit is usually $20.

[@Jwhiz24]

Same, if a card is over $20 I blame wotc and proxy it instead.

[@malakimphoros2164]

On the deck or the singles?

[@jacobmonks3722]

@Malakim Phoros Singles. And I usually limit it to 2 or 3 of those pricey cards per deck if I don't already have them.

[@OverkillpG]

thank you for this episode and the great suggestions for replacement cards. I like to call these replacements more like "consistency cards". if you want your deck to do a specific thing you have to make sure that the specific effect is covered with more than 1 card. From this pov your talk had some interesting suggestions ;)

[@taode.]

this intro will never, ever get old.

[@DrOmnipotent]

Big ups to yall. Been really loving the direction of the podcast since Rachel joined. This episode alone is EONS better than the 'Cards that will spike when this airs/underrated' episodes in a multitude of ways, entertainment included.

[@maximillionchaoswolf]

i'm still kind of newer to the game and I think I really did need to hear that in commander that I don't need the most powerful version of an effect, it is good advice and a good reminder.

[@FUNANIME100]

Was waiting on necropotence being in the list... It always hurts me seing how expensive it is.

[@graysonchristian2668]

Unfortunately there are in my opinion NO cards that do what it does anywhere near as good.

[@matustrophic]

Agreed that both of these are a far cry from Necropotence, but check out Necrologia or Moonlight Bargain.

[@empurress77]

The Reality Chip is one of the most versatile cards i've seen in a long time. Recommend it!

[@SalTheMander]

Thank you for making this episode. Often you'll see og duels and mana crpyts in game knights or extra turns, and it'll make you feel bad.

[@Death_by_Tech]

100% agreed with Rachel about mana crypt. Do you want to be the only one going faster? Will that actually be fun for you? Is your win rate currently too low without it? What are your friends doing that you arent? Do you want to be the one that pushes the playgroup to the next power level? Or feel like you’re the target because you’re always a little faster?

[@joshuaturner4602]

The main thing that avacyn does is it makes your lands indestructible, it wins the game because you slam avacyn down and then follow it up with Armageddon blow up everyone's lands but yours

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

Terra Eternal is a 3 mana enchantment that also does that.

[@MrGeebee1983]

What a great episode. It’s so much fun to find cheap synergistic cards. I would also add Sylvan Library to this list. Not because it is a bad card, but just because most people don’t use it properly.

[@The0therguyzYT]

NO MOM YOU DONT UNDERSTAND, I NEED A MANA CRYPT FOR EACH OF MY 37 DECKS!!!

[@howardjones1388]

My play group, we just have to own 1 copy and we can proxy it for any deck.

[@joeferreti9442]

That's the reason why the cards are so expensive.

[@maggiek8616]

I totally agree with the Mana Crypt/fast Mana discussion. There's only 2 decks where I would consider a Mana Crypt, the first is colorless Eldrazi simply for lacking traditional ramp effects. The second is if you're companioning Gyruda. It effectively functions as your Sol Ring

[@princessofmirkwood10]

Eldrazi is also why I would run mana vault / basalt monolith and voltaic key

[@maggiek8616]

@@princessofmirkwood10 I don't even know if Voltaic Key is that good anymore. In colorless you get Forsaken Monument which goes infinite with Monolith

[@elsheis]

Soy un jugador con más de 10 años jugando torneos pero en Commander noté mi desperdicio de dinero en cartas que no valen mucho la pena(por ejemplo, tengo una tolarian academy, cuna de gaea...). Varias veces hice mazos que tengan alguna necesidad de utilizarse y luego te das cuenta que fue una "estafa propia". Recomiendo jugar barajas de combo barato o cartas que ganen por si solas como yuriko. Saludos desde Argentina :D

[@fusionoftheaces9097]

i appreciate you guys releasing this! not only does it give a lot of players good alternative to these crazy cards, but hopefully these cards actually go down in value a bit making them more accessible to buy because of the alternatives you have provided!

[@chadsamuels6512]

I was surprised in listening to this podcast I was expecting to hear cyclonic Rift was not worth the money as for the cards on the list I think land tax is the most worth not buying I haven't put that in a deck in over 5 years and I own a couple of them if I were to buy one I think I would purchase Fierce guardianship I think the power of a free counterspell maybe underrated because it allows you to tap out and even if you are tapped out and blue it is rare that anyone expects that free counterspell to stop them from what they're doing they think they've got the green light to go ahead and win the game. For the cost right now since managed rain has just been reprinted that's probably the biggest go buy it now card

[@edwarddavidson8949]

As I've stated when other content creators have said the same thing about dual lands. Yes the shock lands are almost as good, but it's about being able to double up on fetchable lands that come into play untapped. Also, I can't agree that these are only 1% better than a basic land.

[@seanbyrne7629]

mana crypt 😭☠️

[@unseeliedream42]

great episode! thanks for remembering to the community that we don't need to play 300$ cards to have fun. on a fun note for cyclonig rift: ixidron for fierce guardianship: foil or IMP's MISCHIEF

[@rockkid407]

Thankfully i bought Doubling Season like 6 years ago when they were 30 each

[@Shawn-f3x]

1 year on from the above comment, Doubling Season is now officially below 30$, due to its announced reprinting in Foundations. Still don’t regret buying a Foil Etched for 35$ 18 months ago. Really dig the style.

[@christopherarrowsmith7540]

Looking through my decks, only one deck comes to the total cost of a mana crypt. Unless your playing cEDH then the question ought not to be is this ‘better’ but is this more fun?

[@Martin.1127]

Personally I think it is. Higher power games have always been more fun to me.

[@fschreder]

Proxy them all. MPC is a great option

[@matheusmterra]

Recently I discovered a treasure trove. My uncle used to play Magic back in Alpha, he forgot he still had those cards but while packing his stuff from my grandma's house for her moving, she found a box with all his cards stashes away. It had over 80k dollars in reserve list cards in there, my uncle didn't know about their value neither did anyone but me, so I took one of each reserve list card for my collection and commander portfolio, the rest I had them evaluated and graded and gave it to my uncle. He started a small business with the money and it's now thriving, he was going through some pretty rough times last year. Anyway, it's nice to find the old hobbies of your relatives you had no idea about.

[@hanschristopherson8056]

If you want to run a card you have one copy of is to proxy it in other decks

[@michaelsparks1571]

A fun part of Arcane Denial if your group likes rules lawyering, the cards the countered-spell's owner draws is a "may" and "up to" trigger. So if they get distracted or just forget, they don't get to draw cards on two technicalities (either they chose not to draw, or chose to draw 0).

[@HydraOverlord]

Amazing topic! I would like to see more of these merit analysis discussions

[@rowdsterrex7845]

I'll be honest, I bought a tropical island early last year for about $520. I added it to my Aesi deck because I was making it as good as I could possibly make it and it did actually make a big difference, but that's more because of the theme of the deck. Using fetch lands, it gives great early mana fixing, but if you aren't making a cedh or high power deck, they aren't worth it. Even in cedh, depending on the deck, you could cut a dual and it wouldn't matter that much.

[@soulweaver64]

A recommendation for a great old card that goes really well with Burgeoning - Storm Cauldron! It's only like, a $3 card, and it means you pretty much always have cards in hand to play with Burgeoning, which is especially great for Landfall decks.

[@ogre589]

When you play an Avacyn, you're basically begging RNGesus that the rest of the table doesn't have targeted exile...your chances are pretty good. Targeted destruction is more common than exile(at least from what I've seen) and if its that much of a problem, grab yourself an equipment/aura that gives hexproof. Now your table needs to have something specific to get rid of her. Also I wouldn't rely too heavily on Toxic Deluge. Need I remind people that to cast it, you need to pay life to do it and Avacyn has 8 toughness baseline so depending on the point of the game, paying enough life to get rid of her might not always be possible...plus if you're playing Avacyn, you're most likely playing a tribal deck fill with angels that have the various removals/preventers as ETBs such as Serra's Emissary, Exquisite Archangel, Angel of Serenity, and Sunblast Angel, just to name a few so good luck having a board.

[@Argeaux2]

Something to think about with the tutor you sac a creature to play, there aren't many games of Commander where you don't lose creatures. The card Liliana Vess can be used as a tutor+ due to her second ability.

[@grizzlyreaper7477]

I'm glad you guys clarified that sometimes in the right deck these are worth it. I LOVE fiery emancipation in my Piru, The Volitile deck. But in that deck I'm playing it on the turn I'm planning on letting Piru die. If I was waiting around for the payoff I wouldn't be able to justify it..

[@lilithscare5757]

The channel has been on another level visually and game-play-wise for some time, but I can feel the influx of creativity Rachel has brought with these kinds of discussion videos.

[@pjpokemon2768]

The reason I ran Doubling Season for so long in my Rin and Seri deck is because both effects it gives is useful to the way I build the deck. I realized really quickly that I needed to drop the mana curve on the deck since there are A LOT of cards competing with the 4 and 5 drop slot, so not only would I cast Doubling Season and it would sit there for a hole turn rotation, next turn I would play another 4-5 drop and get minimal effects out of it anyway. Once I pulled a Hardened Scales from DM2022 it got cut immediately. I posted a similar comment in a previous video about how Firey Emancipation has the exact same problem, if I ever did get an effect out of it, it was only once. At that point I would rather just cast two Dragon's Approach at that point. Even then it would probably be more, cus if I am at the point in the game where I can spend 6 mana, I am at the point in the game where Thrumming Stone, Locket of Yesterdays, or Ruby Medallion would make it to where I could cast WAY more than just two Dragon's Approach at the same mana price. Also with the Dragon's Approach deck, there are just WAY cheaper options than Wheel of Fortune any day.

[@johnnygonzales3267]

That foundry inspector analogy on the honey add legitimately effected me. I'm goingnto go check it out

[@PaulGaither]

8:07 - Avacyn is used to paid with mass land destruction and World Slayer effects. You wipe the table with a win con on board. Unlike using 'geddon to grief the table, you are using it to seal the game.

[@Erimioa]

two topics who can be combined for a video I'm curious about you pals: How big are your collections? And what is the main way to increase your collection? For example I nearly only buy Booster displays and one for almost every new edition. In recent years more often the "Set" variant, because of more variety in rare/mythic cards. I like to get a bunch of cards from one set, reading them and imagine how a deck with the new mechanics can look like. For me a good edition is, where I can build a bunch of diffrent decks; not to only upgrade existing ones. One friend buys only 1 or 2 editions per year, but then 2-4 displays from it, because he realy like THAT theme and others only specific cards, because more of a budget or doesn't want a big collection, more building a few specific decks. Because of that buy pattern I have over 23k cards, ~50 decks (14 of them commanders), 2 cubes (one is a jump start) and 20 deck ideas I'm working on here and then. My biggest problems is, that I doesn't have anougth basic lands and have to buy some from time to time. Maybe a matching topic: to manage my collection I use Urzagatherer, as a digital database and building decks (for building it is not the best, I know, but I like the database there more as from other programs/websites).

[@themagicofmtg]

Definitely agree with a lot of these. Also, thank you for telling us about the replacements and the thoughts behind them! Great episode!

[@aptiryp2682]

The Imperial Seal is a fun example. In many cases, Commander games last longer and the mana base is usually quite strong (and more casual moust of the time). When I'm building the baseline for my deck, I could see myself playing a card like "Diabolic Tutor" or "Case of the Stashed Skeleton" when I want to look for a combo piece, and those are cards less than a dollar are worth. But I see the imperial Seal in every Turnemant deck in every format outside of Commander.

[@WilliamAndRose1]

To avoid the whole issue of having to buy multiples, I use a system where I mark the inner sleeve on each card I use - to identify which decks it goes in. I have a few deck boxes with all the shared cards, and then additional boxes with the cards that only go in a single deck. When I want to play, I pull out the single deck cards and then sift through the shared cards quickly and pull out the ones with a matching mark. Takes maybe 5 minutes to put a deck together and shuffle it, but I only have to own one copy of mana crypt, jeweled lotus, etc - and I can use them in as many decks as I want :-)

[@AsterDXZ]

1:04:00 goes hard after the September 2024 banlist

[@Strik3r1090]

Thanks for the talk on duals; after feeling like I have been missing out for so long I can now see the benefits are minimal.👍