Commenters Note Some Problems with Pascal's Wager (DRtC #19)

#19 in my "Don't Read the Comments" series.
Today we're looking at some recent comments relating to Pascal's wager.
Also some channel news.
Bonus : kitty pics!
Like what I do? Buy me a coffee! www.buymeacoffee.com/scarlettlag
#comments #atheism #apologetics

[@CTCTraining1]

Continuing the 5,000 year Egyptian tradition, KZbin confirms cats are the only deities worth worshipping 🙏😀 Congratulations on the channel growth 👍

[@monsterguyx6322]

My main problem with the Wager is that it suggests that belief is a choice.

[@eklektikTubb]

Replace "belief" with "worship" and your main problem is fixed.

[@wiskadjak]

I think countering Pascal's Wager with Roko's Basilisk would be fun. 👹😸

[@TheBarelyBearableAtheist]

My favorite anti-wager is this: God is a psychovore, a spiritual being who tries to lure mortals into putting their faith in him. In the afterlife, they're his lawful prey, since they voluntarily gave themselves to him, and they spend eternity--well, let's not be too graphic, but it's pretty painful. Two things are fun about this. 1) Since he's so much smarter, wiser, more knowledgeable, and more powerful than mortals, there's no way believers can be sure it isn't actually true, and 2) it explains divine hiddenness, because he's sowed the seeds of faith and now all he has to do is sit back and wait for the harvest. God doesn't play with his food.

[@scarlett8960]

Well, some apologists say 'god created this universe so he can do what he wants.'

[@TheBarelyBearableAtheist]

@@scarlett8960 And if you won't let him have his own way, he's gonna take his cosmos and go home! :P

[@antonioscendrategattico2302]

Pretty sure there was an episode of Star Trek Voyager that had basically this plot lol

[@greatcaesarsghostwriter3018]

Congratulations!🎉🎆

[@jz-meister5343]

Congratulations on 2,000 subscribers, and your cats are SO cute!! 😍 Also, regarding Pascal’s Wager, I cannot believe that anyone actually uses that as an argument for god. It instantly falls apart when you realize that it could be used as an argument for any and all possible gods. 🤣

[@pythondrink]

It's not rly an argument for the existence of God. What makes the argument stupid though is that it presupposes a specific god exists.

[@eklektikTubb]

That is why they use PW as an argument against atheism... which is not exactly the same as an argument "for god". And yes, it can be used by polytheists which believe in many (or even all possible) gods. Monotheism cannot be defended by PW, nor can the real existence of any god(s) - PW is not about really believing in what really is real, but rather about pretending belief in what could be real (and about that being a better way than not pretending).

[@antonioscendrategattico2302]

Pascal's Wager is more of a psychological abuse tactic to scare believers into staying believers tbh. Though in that sense, it's hardly that different from most arguments for god's existence: they only work if you presuppose god exists, and are mostly about keeping the believer in the flock.

[@rcnfo1197]

I learned some new versions of Pascal's Wager here, thanks to those comments. And I like them better than the original. Congratulations. Hope your channel takes off.

[@David_Goza]

Congratulations on 2,000 subs!

[@David_Goza]

Love the cats! I have three: a 9-year-old black calico named Phoebe, a 5-year-old grey tabby named Loki, and his sibling Poly, named for her polydactyl condition (all four paws).

[@robind.phillips2129]

CONGRATULATIONS! Thanks for sharing, Scarlett. Enjoy your Hiatus!

[@scarlett8960]

Thank you!

[@rabbitpirate]

Congratulations on reaching 2K, very well deserved 🎉

[@Jcs57]

So a omnipotent being with the ability to blink a whole universe into existence out of nothing did so to have one speck of blue in the never ending everything just to house a smattering of bipedal apes so they might gather together and cosplay vampirism and cannibalism while singing about how swell he is. Cool story bro. 😎

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

⚠️ Felicitations pour tes 2000 enfants! C'est beaucoup de travail tous ces bebes. Tu merites des vacances. J'espere qu'elles seront bonnes. Amuse toi bien. 💞

[@billirwin3558]

Happy 2000 Scarlett! @rolandwatts3218 is right, and it accords with my observations as well. That there is no one god in Christianity but many. There is Hovind's god, Winger's god, WLC's god etc. etc. There is no uniformity in the Christian god. So it is a load of tripe for Christian's in general to talk about monotheism. What we are actually dealing with is Christian polytheism. We should tell proselytisers to come back when there is one cohesive Christianity with one cohesive god. In other words, NEVER!

[@duanethompson8770]

Thanks for sharing those comments. It’s nice to see that some people do understand the real world.

[@martin2289]

It's so nice to see your delightful channel growing a well-deserved audience of skeptics who appreciate your concise, snarky, and often pithy take-downs of religious apologists and the profoundly silly arguments they make for believing in a crapload of utterly preposterous nonsense. Oh, and kitty pics, too, of course... Best wishes on your travels and everything involved with that.

[@PhrontDoor]

Pascal's wager is so utterly fraught with problems that I cannot imagine Pascal seriously proposed it. From things like : "which version of the god of religion X do you propose is real", to "presupposing that we understood the gods requirements" to "presupposing the gods requirements to be consistent/constant" to presupposing the god to be the one in charge of anything... ALL the way to the oft-mentioned last two : god being convinced to offer 'salvation' because you merely wanted NOT to be tortured (not because you were good) and 'belief is something you can choose". People who, unironically, bring forth Pascals wager have never cared enough about themselves nor their audiences, to think it through at even a most cursory level. Turek and those of his ilk are wonderful examples of that.

[@andyh3065]

Congrats on the 2k🎉 Looking forward to lots more great content from you.

[@Bokonon999]

The problem with Pascal's Wager starts with the idea that he states it as a theorem complete with a "proof". In mathematics, theorems often have (sometimes) useful extensions and it's disappointing that he overlooked the extension of his own theorem: If his wager is correct then it's to one's advantage to never have been born. You can't go to Hell if you've never been born.

[@dethspud]

Gratz on 2k subs. Enjoy your trip. Kitteh pix are always welcome. 😊

[@antinatalope]

I don't give into eternal threats, just as I wouldn't give in to any human tyrant.

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

Good. Quit voting

[@antinatalope]

@@Soliloquy-gy6zf I'd like to think your post was relevant.

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

@@antinatalope does the government have authority over you?

[@antinatalope]

@@Soliloquy-gy6zf The laws of the land apply to me, as they do all. But if, say, a sufficiently authoritarian figure installed itself, I would resist it. Just as I resist corporate dominance through thoughtful consumerism. Or religious dominance.

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

@@antinatalope that's good friend. You better be ready, because it's coming.

[@JosephKano]

Yay! Kitty Pics amd Comments!

[@russbeers9613]

Nice one! We have 2 fluffy people that let us live in this house, as long as food is promptly provided and chins are properly scratched.

[@Multi_Purpose_Weirdo]

All praise to the Small Blue Porcelain Hippo!

[@Matthew-xb1zn]

1) *Mbruk* (congratulations) in Arabic 2) Don't read the comments 3) Pascal did hemlock shots 💀=)

[@pencilpauli9442]

Tails I get a pig?! Please let it be tails, please oh please let it be tails. Not that I have any where to keep a pig but I do love the porker so! ❤🐷❤ Congratulations on reaching 2K

[@Dr.JustIsWrong]

Fine then, I don't believe Pascal existed.. Now what?! lol 😜😂🤣

[@Bill_Garthright]

Congratulations at 2,000 subscribers!

[@scarlett8960]

Thanks! And you have been here since the beginning!

[@Bill_Garthright]

@@scarlett8960 Yes, indeed. I remember thinking that I subscribed to far too many channels already. Heh, heh. And that's very true. But I'm still glad I subscribed to this one, though I rarely comment.

[@Azho64]

Congrats on 2k!!!!

[@jerryhayes9497]

Comment for the KZbin algorithm god

[@ziploc2000]

Pascal also ignores the downside to all the time and money wasted on the god belief if the god isn't real, not to mention all the self-loathing and general ignorance and denial of reality it requires. Most ex-theist atheists are pretty upset or angry about their wasted time.

[@andrewswartz1454]

Congrats on 2000 subs! Enjoy your vacation! I can't wait to see your collaborations! Can you give us a hint who it is?

[@scarlett8960]

😉 I have a couple things with channels about my size

[@EluviumMC]

Happy 2000 enjoyers of the getting past the blibbity blab!

[@rebeccazegstroo6786]

Safe travels. We'll miss you.

[@RustyWalker]

Congrats.

[@johnburn8031]

Congregations 🍻

[@Phylaetra]

[@Mr.PeabodyTheSkeptic]

My wife is Asian. She's wondering, ' why not 3k yet?'. I'm a white guy who never reached his potential and I say, 'Congratulations!'

[@classicsciencefictionhorro1665]

Blaise Pascal invented the Roulette wheel, so there's that.

[@RichWoods23]

Which roulette wheel? The one with single 0 pocket on it or the one with the 0 and 00 pockets? I know which one I'd prefer not to wager on.

[@doranku]

I despise Algorithmo for the lackluster attempts to bring me to this channel. But I have to praise it for finally succeeding a few weeks ago. BTW the old music, where did it came from? My brain associated it with Final Fantasy, but scanning the OST from 7, 10 and 12 I couldn't make the match.

[@scarlett8960]

Algorithmo can be a little slow and creaky at times. Glad he finally brought you here. All of the music I play is original. My husband composes and I've asked him to create some bits for my channel.

[@doranku]

@@scarlett8960 Thanks for the reply and thank Mr. Scarlett to (at least for me) trigger a good memory.

[@Finckelstein]

Congrats on 2000 subs! I would like to add another anti-pascalian argument here. Pascal's Wager is a direct insult to their god. Claiming that one should just act as if they believed in it means that people who propose this idea think that either their god wouldn't notice the insincerity or that it wouldn't care, which in turn would render the entire excercize moot. It is literally impossible for me to believe in the nonsense of the bible. So if this god made me, it made me a staunch atheist. I had absolutely no hands in that.

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

No one is an atheist. Nor " a Christian". All people are Love. How is it that I know you more than you know yourself?

[@oliviawilliams6204]

An interesting argument against Pascal Wager is Pascal himself. It literally ruined his life and ended his brilliant career as a mathematician and might have hasten his death as he refused treatment as he had joined a catholic cult who glorified pain.

[@stevewebber707]

Pascal's wager depends on so many things, especially the perspective we start from. If Pascal's God is true and real, the majority of humanity has lost a wager, placing them in eternal torment, for something they are not at fault for. And the folks that "won" the wager, get to spend all of their eternity singing the praises of that monster. Without any capacity to defy or disobey that God at any time. I find it strange that a mathematician would propose this wager, because this sort of wager is all about probabilities. And probabilities are meaningless, unless there can be calculations from known quantities. The pretense that there is enough information to figure probabilities, is what is really being pushed. I can't get past all of the divide by zero errors.

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

⚠️ what is french, good looking, funny, intelligent, talented, good in bed and bad in God?

[@marcdc6809]

I don't think I'd be very happy in heaven. So I'd rather call myself an atheist to make sure that if the bible is right I'm not going there... and if the bible is wrong, it wouldn't really matter...

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

"Heaven"... isn't a place. Just a state of mind. Everything is . You will get there eventually. All people do

[@marcdc6809]

@@Soliloquy-gy6zf ok, sounds good, confirms that the bible is wrong, so it wouldn't really matter.

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

​@@marcdc6809the Bible is read from matter's perspective. This leads to believing in talking snakes and other childish interpretations. No religious person understands what they read. God is about enlightenment. Not religion

[@marcdc6809]

@@Soliloquy-gy6zf it makes you an atheist in my understanding. I also feel the magic of life when I see busy chickens, a relaxed snoozing cat, a garden in bloom, the smell of roses and lilac, strawberries turning bright red, same for the raspberries, we have a couple of magpies in the garden, they're faithful to each other, they seem to have the intelligence of a human 7 year old. I've seen the chickens discover a toad and dismembering it... I liked that toad too, it ate snails, chickens cut out the middle man... it's all fascinating and beautiful and it has this sense of belonging... the toad was transformed into delicious eggs ... I think it's easier to look at the mechanisms of recycling in nature as a mindless canvas to which we can contribute, and not look for a conscious designer of carnivores, diseases and parasites... as in, try not to be the parasite yourself, that's already an important realisation...

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

​@@marcdc6809that's great, I'm glad you are enjoying life. The reason I'm here is because this is supposed to be a channel for skeptics. For curious people. I must say I feel a bit let down. Here I am proposing new possibilities, yet nobody could care less. We just don't want God to exist period. We didn't expect anyone to come with new arguments. And in case they do, let's just ignore them. Right?

[@CharlesPayet]

Congratulations on 2K subs, @Scarlett8960! But oh noooo, no Scarlett for a couple weeks??? Because vacation? How could you be so selfish and deprive us of your sarcasm and blibbedy-blab for so long? 😂 Have fun on your vacation with Mr. Scarlett!

[@scarlett8960]

Thanks! And if you need a fix of blibbedy-blab, I got playlists! 🤣

[@CharlesPayet]

@@scarlett8960 as if I haven’t already binged those multiple times? 😁

[@scarlett8960]

@@CharlesPayet 🥰

[@donaldnumbskull9745]

People invented gods, then some grifter thought there was a living to be made out of them and the first religion was born. It's always and only ever been about people. Except Algorithmo, obviously. He's real, Scarlett is His prophet and the kitties are His messengers, ordaining the holy Likes, Comments and Subscribes. (BTW, could you intercede for me? I keep getting disgusting pimple-popping videos recommended. I really don't need more pus in my life.) Anyway, congrats on 2,000. Hope there's many more to come.

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

What does that tell you? Religion came after humans, who invented them. Yet life existed before humans. Therefore life ... already existed before religions. So... how can a Creator of LIFE... have anything to do with religion ? Do you understand your lack of common sense?

[@donaldnumbskull9745]

@@Soliloquy-gy6zf Classic question-begging. You assert that life was created without providing evidence. Show that a god or gods exist, show that he/she/it/they created life, and I'll be more careful about my off-hand flippant comments.

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

​@@donaldnumbskull9745hello friend. We constantly ask for "evidence", while we don't even understand how we happen to see what we're looking at. What "matter" is. God isn't to be proven to anyone. Rather we, must prove ourself... to Him. Only then will He show up. Religion is nonsense. It is because of it that we don't believe in God. The deceiver does its job wonderfully. God is not Religion. Never was. The Creator is a far better story than anything we have learned through religions

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

​@@donaldnumbskull9745the Truth about life and our world is mind blowing. We have NO IDEA of the Ultimate Power that GOD actually is.

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

​@@donaldnumbskull9745the reason I'm here is because this is supposed to be a channel for "skeptics". For curious people. I must say I feel a bit let down. Here I am proposing new possibilities, yet nobody could care less. We just don't want God to exist period. We didn't expect anyone to come with new arguments. In case they do, let's just ignore them

[@itsROMPERS...]

DEFINITELY don't read THIS comment!

[@mr.zafner8295]

Wew lass! So are you a doctor or what? You talk like a college professor. Thanks for making all these fun videos

[@scarlett8960]

I actually am a Doctor of Philosophy in French Literature - make of that what you will

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

​@@scarlett8960 comment savoir? Commence a voir. 🧞‍♀️

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

​@@scarlett8960 comment savoir ? commence a voir . 🧞‍♀️

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

​@@scarlett8960Comment savoir ? ... Commence a voir. 🧞‍♀️

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

Comment savoir ? Commence a voir. 🧞‍♀️

[@user-ce8lr3ff6v]

I'm willing to sacrifice my soul for a complete stranger's place in heaven (spots are limited), show me a Christian willing to make the same sacrifice.

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

You don't need to. You will see "Heaven". In your own time

[@user-ce8lr3ff6v]

@@Soliloquy-gy6zf Or whatever those last few moments of brain activity produce.

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

@@user-ce8lr3ff6v we live in consciousness. What this means is that life... is for LIFE . Death doesn't exist

[@user-ce8lr3ff6v]

@@Soliloquy-gy6zf If consciousness means sentience, humans are only partially there. We don't have full awareness of all of our organs or the organisms that are part of our body to be able to control them. Not even close to being aware of what's going on in the universe at this time. All that we observe has already happened. The farther away the event, the longer ago it happened. While we won't be aware after our own death, we can be aware of the cessation of life in other living things. In that case death exists. We are living beings that are able to make observations about our observations, and thus we call our selves aware.

[@Soliloquy-gy6zf]

⚠️ hello geniuses. Religions came after humans, who invented them. Yet life ... existed before humans. Therefore life, already existed before religions. So, how can a CREATOR OF LIFE... have anything to do with religions? Do you, geniuses, realise your lack of common sense?

[@freddan6fly]

Your cats are smarter than Frank Turek. At least they are not bullshitting as much.

[@scarlett8960]

they tolerate no bullshit

[@PaulYates-nf7vx]

​@@scarlett8960God is good and the devil is evil

[@freddan6fly]

@@PaulYates-nf7vx Got evidence?

[@PaulYates-nf7vx]

@@freddan6fly no

[@freddan6fly]

@@PaulYates-nf7vx If you actually read the bible and count the number of death each fictional character causes, god is the evil and the devil is the good one.

[@PaulYates-nf7vx]

God is good and the devil is evil

[@Multi_Purpose_Weirdo]

Or maybe Ahura Mazda is good, and Ahriman is evil?

[@PaulYates-nf7vx]

@@Multi_Purpose_Weirdo okay

[@Multi_Purpose_Weirdo]

@@PaulYates-nf7vx Are you going to tell me to put glue on my pizza next?

[@PaulYates-nf7vx]

@@Multi_Purpose_Weirdo okay

[@Multi_Purpose_Weirdo]

@@PaulYates-nf7vx Do you like glue on your pizza? I like glue on my pizza. Say "okay" if you aren't a real person.