Skeptics Don't Like Curiosity, My Takes are Dumb and Ridiculous: DRtC #18

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Bonus 2: kitty pics!
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#comments #atheism #apologetics

[@pencilpauli9442]

A small but important point. Scientists say don't say that there was a singularity, nor, as apologists falsely claim, do they say the universe came from nothing. Scientists don't know. Based on the best information they have, they hypothesise that there was a singularity. The conditions of singularity are so extreme that current understanding breaks down. This is not a criticism of the way science works. It's more honest than, "Oh well, God must have done it, and not just any god but the one I happen to worship!"

[@stevewebber707]

To my understanding, a singularity is a situation where mathematical models break down. To say that there is a singularity in this context, is inherently including that our understanding breaks down. A singularity is not some thing that breaks down laws of physics, but the point itself at which physics broke down, if that makes sense. It's more a concept than a thing. When scientists say that there was a singularity before the big bang, that might be parsed out to literally mean the models break down at the beginning of the big bang. So yes, if an apologist says "Scientists say, before the singularity something came from nothing", they are full of it. No credible scientist is going to say, in effect, "before an event before which we can't predict anything, some specific things happened." At best, there are hypothesis and speculations.

[@pencilpauli9442]

​@@stevewebber707 Thanks Steve, you articulated it better than I.

[@timothymulholland7905]

Happy Birthday. The universe celebrated!

[@davidwatches]

Happy birthday, Scarlett!

[@scarlett8960]

thanks!

[@JosephKano]

Why was she born so beautiful, why was she born... Etc etc we sing the songs!

[@tomfrombrunswick7571]

One commentator has developed merch with comments on it stuff like "I sense a Jezabell vibe"

[@Dr.JustIsWrong]

"Uncle, why is there nothing rather than something?" "Shaddap! You can't ask questions when there's nothing.. Go to bed, ya brat.. ..But first go get all the ice cream and two bowls.."

[@jrpence]

There are those that love to ask leading questions. "I'm just asking questions" (JAQ) is their defense. Where JAQ-ing off is an apt description of what they're up to.

[@CharlesPayet]

Happy Birthday, Scarlett!

[@scarlett8960]

thanks!

[@stevewebber707]

Very kind of you to refer to my comment so generously. Thanks! Side comment about the atheism to other atheistic to other Gods discussion: I'm getting the impression that even the word atheism is some sort of jump scare word for some Christians. They have perhaps attached such negative connotations, that they don't want it applied to them in any way, no matter how logically applicable. It's like dropping an F bomb. For some folks it's enough to derail any conversation or understanding.

[@scarlett8960]

Your comment was perfect really for one of the problems with terms and how they can get abused and bandied about and people don't even realize the danger of the concept

[@ernestschultz5065]

These goobers probably think of nothing as just a completely empty universe utterly devoid of matter. I don't think that is even a possible state of affairs.

[@stevewebber707]

I am forcing myself to refrain from making a joke about people thinking about nothing. In seriousness, as Scarlett mentioned, without their definition of nothing, we are left floundering with assumptions about what they might mean. Do I think they have thought deeply enough to have a good working definition? Let's just say I would be impressed and surprised to be provided with it. Nothing is one of those words that can mean radically different things depending on things like context. Personally I tend to be frustrated, by apologist claims about what nothing can or can't do. Even if they were to define it, have they studied it, to know it's characteristics, and whether or not something could come from it? The vagueness of the language in "something can't come from nothing", makes it sound sensible at an intuitive level. But to actually address it, I would need to know a lot more than they are communicating. And responding with, "do you think quantum fluctuations are nothing?", probably won't progress the discussion.

[@eklektikTubb]

No need to think about "nothing" if you have "something" as an alternative. Quantum fluctuations can progress the discussion, but you should be prepared for some curious counterquestions, such as: what are they, why are they here, what caused them, etc.

[@albertlecuyer6761]

"Take your manifesto elsewhere" is a manifesto. But I comment because I care.

[@scarlett8960]

ohmygosh, that will be a video soon!

[@zap...]

Happy Born Day!

[@EluviumMC]

Happy birthday! And here's to another end of the world crisis averted!

[@Matthew-xb1zn]

Debating nothingness is different in Ohio 🤔

[@Phylaetra]

Happy Birthday! Mine is this week too! And my sister's was last week - lots of April birthdays!

[@soyevquirsefron990]

Correction: @06:20 you say that science says the singularity always existed. That’s a speculation. Current models of physics and mathematics can predict what happened fractions of a second after the Big Bang, but there’s a limit because the early universe was so hot and so dense that current models of physics don’t give coherent results and we don’t know what happened before that. The word “singularity” doesn’t really define an object that existed. It means “something unique, one of a kind, nothing else like it”. If you have a horse and it’s hoof prints disappear and you find it’s gnawed skeleton a mile away, you could say “perhaps some singular bird carried it away” and that’s the same sense of the word singularity. whatever existed before the Big Bang was unique and there’s nothing else like it, but we have no idea what it was like. The Big Bang happened, and our math can predict what happened fractions of a second after that. But we can’t describe the Big Bang and we can’t describe the singularity, except to say that there is nothing else like it

[@stevewebber707]

I think a case can be made that the singularity always existed, until the big bang happened. Under some models, time begins at that point. So under that case, the singularity would have existed for all of time. Time literally having a beginning, plays some weird tricks. And I know I struggle to wrap my head around the ramifications. Would I hang my hat on those claims? Heck no. Considering how our physics models break down at that point, I don't think it's a good idea to make assertions about what precedes that singularity. To add on to your comment about singularities. In this context it is literally referring to a situation where the math breaks down. I'm not sure how relevant your take on the uniqueness of a singularity is. All black holes have gravitational singularities for example. You may want to review what the technical definition is.

[@JosephKano]

So glad to see Gina doing well!

[@infidelcastro5129]

Happy birthday Scarlett 😊 Keep fighting the good fight.

[@scarlett8960]

thank you!

[@johnburn8031]

Yeah! One of my two favourite female KZbinrs has uploaded a video 🙋🏻‍♂️ by the way, my other favourite is Ivy Windsong Collins. Happy birthday 🎂

[@johnburn8031]

I mean female atheist KZbinrs.

[@scarlett8960]

thanks!

[@johnburn8031]

You're welcome 😘

[@CharlesPayet]

Never heard of Ivy, but always looking to find more non white guy atheist channels.

[@johnburn8031]

@@CharlesPayet you can find her by searching for her name. Ivy Windsong Collins. Another good female atheist channel is Emma Thorne. Again, her KZbin channel name is her name. There are a couple of others, but none of them seem to upload anymore.

[@classicsciencefictionhorro1665]

The bird was an omen. Don't eat meat from birds.

[@c.guydubois8270]

Many happy returns...

[@greatcaesarsghostwriter3018]

Methinks eklektik doth protest too much.

[@soyevquirsefron990]

Re: one god less, here’s another phrasing. Christians don’t believe in Allah Muslims don’t believe in the Trinity I believe they’re both correct

[@Bill_Garthright]

Happy Birthday!

[@soyevquirsefron990]

Ekletik says that you asked a question and that means you don’t like assertions and curious questions. Does asking a question about something mean you don’t like the thing? Or is ekletik telling on himself, because when he likes something he does not question it so he thinks questions = dislike

[@eklektikTubb]

I would agree that asking a question about something usually doesnt mean you dont like the thing, but "is it even possible?" is not a regular (fair, honest and curious) question.

[@IanM-id8or]

Happy Birthday. Sorry I missed it - KZbin only recommended your video this morning

[@JosephKano]

Comments! KITTY PICS!

[@JosephKano]

I know I say things that may suggest I just watch for the Kitty Pics however I do listen for your opinions and points of view and refreshing takes. You are often same same however different to other atheist tubers. I like your takes and points more than many of the guys. I also like the Kitty Pics. So do my Kitty's. Also happy hatching day! Fellow Lizard Person!

[@Dr.JustIsWrong]

Things happened.. definitely god

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

The point is your Christian god is no different to us then odin. Also, meow.

[@jerryhayes9497]

There was no algorithm, then the KZbin god said " Let there be algorithm" ! All praise KZbin 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@scarlett8960]

And Algorithm saw the comment, that it was good, and blessed the comment that it may pour forth quality content. And it was evening and morning and other parts of the day.

[@jerryhayes9497]

@@scarlett8960 😂🤣

[@user-wd7dp9yj3j]

lol i wish our computer science professors were as interesting as u

[@user-wd7dp9yj3j]

also happy birthday!

[@eklektikTubb]

Hello again. 🙂 I guess i am a star of your video. 🙂 I want to clarify that i am not saying "nothingness is most likely the case", i am saying "nothingness is possibly the case, why wouldnt it be?". That is totally different, i dont think i need evidence for my position because every open-minded person accept all kind of possibilities. I am also thinking about "the point" that "apologists want atheists to explain something they dont have to explain and making assumption what needs to be explained" and "pretending they havent heard answers they have heard". I dont know, i guess it is true about some of them or maybe even most of them, but i dont think is it relevant. I am not apologist, you are not apologist, we are not dependent on apologists, facts are not dependent on apologists, so how is your point important? Is there a point of that point? Probably not.

[@scarlett8960]

so, when I ask, "why do you think nothingness is a possible state?" to ask "why wouldn't it be possible?" doesn't answer the question. It doesn't get us any closer to understanding anything. It doesn't provide evidence. It does nothing at all. I agree that nothingness might be possible, but I don't see why we would assume that there is a state of nothingness out there. Now, you might want to give apologists the benefit of the doubt and say they are just asking curious questions, but I don't think they are. I think they want to shift what a person needs to be able to defend so that their god wins. It is true it doesn't matter what apologists think, it doesn't change the facts, but what I want to put out there for other atheists is that we don't need to have answers to remain atheists, that apologists say we have to answer these questions to stay atheists. I actually think all "questions for atheists" are just proselytizing tools because I know that lots of these apologists have received answers and they act like they haven't.

[@eklektikTubb]

@@scarlett8960 The basis of reality is simple: Real things exist, unreal things dont exist and these two sets of things have various subsets. Saying that nothigness was real means there was not a single thing, zero number of things, in the set of real things. Apologists say "there was not a single thing except God" and they assume that atheists say the same without that "...except God" part. I would agree they are not JUST asking curious questions, but i can say the same about atheists, skeptics, etc. We all want to defend our positions and convince the others. "No need to have answers" - Well, that message of yours is not new, unique, mind-blowing, amaizing nor in any way special. Is it at least true message? Sure - there is no burden of answering, just benefit of answering, benefit of explaining things and benefit of making arguments. The basic rule of life is "dont expect much if you havent given much" and it applies to everyone - theists, atheists, agnostics, etc.

[@Dr.JustIsWrong]

egilskljgf hi jfggg2941 was just trolling. Made NO arguments just vague pretend implications, and standard bait "u dum!"

[@berglen100]

Robots a mysterious imaginations claim all I AM all things then puppets enter why when where if time swear life isn't dreams so impossibility claim fulfillment does have truth hide and seek after cause gets wobble to win then you can leave behind emotions only happy trails get winks when hints like all offsprings of I AM all things even babble searches that dead ends for flesh and blood thoughts get to bored of time repeats then weird inters possibilities dates impossible to keep both employment can and can't have some serious meanings against each others ambassadors seen heard smelling windy days trips fall lust liar think secrets fools gold real-time minerals do have old lust still king for flesh and mockers against the woke promises light becomes easy after I AM is woke inside self where spark from Eternal catch fire was just molded smokey life in time wet babbles Eternity very patience so death has lots of time.

[@stanurbaniak2341]

Scarlett, I am so put off by your not liking me to talk. I am now skeptical about your curiosity, so now I'm not going to tell you about the origin of the universe. (teaser - it didn't come from your nothing)

[@Bill_Garthright]

Heh, heh. I like your sense of humor. Very funny.