Companies Are Destroying Our Games

[@Born_Reddy]

What are your thoughts on the state of the industry? I'd love to see more accountability in roadmaps, promises prior to release and server lifetimes laid out rather than subject to change at the whim of publishers who only have the shareholders in mind.

[@hughgrection7246]

I'm never in favor of more government power but in this instance I feel we need some regulation . We need laws that forbid things like abandoning servers for games until X # of years have passed . We need to legislate permanent access to the programs we've paid for . We need some kind of bureau or agency that can assign fines to large studios for things like loot boxes and releasing games in unplayable states hoping to patch them after release. We need the right to refund within a reasonable period of time. We need to make buying reviews illegal. In short we need to strengthen our consumer laws for the internet age .

[@lakkakka]

It isn't the companies only. It is those fucking annoying corporation apolagists. And idiots that kep spending when they implemented bullshit. And idiots will still he spending money on then.

[@cth0nic668]

Let it rot, Let it rot, Let it rot!~

[@kacpernidecki3751]

Most of big industry is a shit show but some even big ones still stand strong ( doom, god of war, elder scrolls games etc.) and most indie games are great

[@TegPi]

New live services are 99% money sinks barking up a full tree. AAA developers forcing it on existing IP is ruining their reputation and the value of that IP. Players buying MTX and supporting live service is the reason they're not many single player development studios left in AAA. If we come full circle here; I don't see the industry continuing in this direction without running out of customers. Live service has plenty of massive timesinks and existing games with massive player bases. Companies can't sell new ones for 95USD with "7 day early acvess preorder+deluxe bonus" and expect there to be any sizable audience. The market for paid videogames is in single player and freemium in multiplayer. So many current studios cannot grast this and are actively hemoraging money by overinvesting into trash no one wants (compared to the investment)

[@juliofoolio2982]

The legal term for “rug pull” is bait and switch. I think there could be a legal case for a class action suit.

[@Wavy_Gravy]

Bait and switch is a trading charge. This is just embezzlement, lol. When a company takes money, and doesn't supply what they said they would. It's a corruption charge. 72 people would get railroaded in court, lol.

[@rafapasternak8090]

No in legal terms it's false advertisment

[@juliofoolio2982]

@@Wavy_Gravy bait and switch noun Synonyms of bait and switch 1 : a sales tactic in which a customer is attracted by the advertisement of a low-priced item but is then encouraged to buy a higher-priced one 2 : the ploy of offering a person something desirable to gain favor (such as political support) then thwarting expectations with something less desirable. -Merriam Webster

[@grph1t3z]

@@juliofoolio2982corny

[@ryancialone3045]

The issue is a judge isn’t the kind of person who has a line on what a scam game looks like or what a good game should look like so it’s very unlikely he’ll be able to rule properly

[@idrathernot_2]

Nope we're past wanting them to do better. I want them all to actively go bankrupt. Don't even pirate their new crap. Pirate all the old games.

[@baimhakani]

Waiting for some bootrimmer to bitch about pirating

[@sookendestroy1]

"Im sorry, youre not financially viable" Is the new "You do not spark joy, goodbye"

[@jiggerypokery2962]

If it was not sparking joy why would people care so much to report on it constantly?

[@cloudycolacorp]

I don't think digital games are the issue totally here, since you can't play a copy of the crew on a disk. It's the MMO-ification of everything that's the issue

[@Born_Reddy]

Completely agree, I may have leaned too heavily into the digital v physical side. It is trying to turn everything into a service of long drawn out releases often where they don't make any sense

[@Sphendrana]

Fact: Single player games that require an internet connection to play don't deserve to be played. No matter how good the game is. When internet is a free resource provided to all humans across the planet, then I'll accept having a hard requirement of internet connection to play games. Otherwise, that's a no from me dawg.

[@silverscalederg8632]

MMOish games CAN if the publishers so choose to, have a "kill switch" My idea has always been with the advent of AI have them watch and learn from the players through the games "lifespan" online. They will publish a "seed" of the game so the self learning AI will learn, adapt, like real people making the normally "bot matches" and interactions feel real even if offline, or self hosted servers or whatever people want. Especially true for online only games

[@cloudycolacorp]

@@silverscalederg8632 This was actually possible since the 90s, the reaper bots created by a modder for quake would have memory and "learn" levels as they play. Eerily realistic to play against

[@silverscalederg8632]

@@cloudycolacorp Wait really? Most the bots in games are so shit to play against...you're telling me someone did it in the 90s?

[@RSAgility]

Back in the day, someone in their garage was making something not because they wanted to be rich, but because they thought the world needs their product, so they gave it their all. Sacrificed a lot, to give us quality. Companies will never sacrifice like that. Too risky. Companies are not "joe in the garage inventing something useful" They are the landlord demanding that "joe in the garage" stop his work immediately until they can asses their "risk to profit ratio" or whatever new lingo the stupid owners come up with ... I hate how companies use different words for the same things... "this is the adjuster" You mean a screw driver..? "what? what is that? ..in this company its called an 'adjuster'" 🙈🤦‍♀️🤦‍♂️

[@Macheako]

The suits won 😢

[@SavageHoax]

"Hexaform rotational compression unit." AKA: The lugnut.

[@Wavy_Gravy]

Still are.

[@handlesshouldntdefaulttonames]

Back when you wanted to play Oregon Trail so bad you typed-out handwritten code into your green monochrome computer.

[@lordadorable1140]

@@Macheako They always win, because they are nobles. The nobles always win, unless they are fighting themselves

[@117johnpar]

The simple and short of the industry being turned into such a dumpsterfire is down to the amount of investors getting involved. Exponential growth of studios for business, and not passion. 700 people spending 7 years on a game franchise that will never reach half the heights of its original title that was made by 70 people in 7 months.

[@xXYannuschXx]

Problem is that these businesses then use a gigantic amount of money to advertize the game (be it through classic ads or the modern streamer) so that passionless slop of a sequel still rakes in a ton of profit.

[@117johnpar]

@@xXYannuschXx You also have knuckledraggers saying "Gaming is the best its ever been" because Undertale and Elden Ring came out in the past decade and apparently that dismisses the hundreds of original franchises that are still having their legacies farmed to this day that started from 95-12

[@guidedexplosiveprojectileg9943]

​@@117johnparI mean Nier Automata did come out in 2017...

[@ikeduno7973]

It sounds like we need a way to undermine the moneymaker so we can cook up tomorrow's profit metric.

[@Wandering_Joe]

In Japan, Gacha games are required to refund back the microtransactions spent on them once the game ends its service. Thats why those games never seem to die over there; companies are held responsible for the service based products they sell.

[@ghoulchan7525]

..... They should really implement this rule over here too

[@TheTdw2000]

That's insane, first because why would you "play" one of those games in the first place, and second why would a company create a game that (eventually) they're guaranteed to never make a profit off of?

[@Wandering_Joe]

@@TheTdw2000 because it doesn't include merchandise sales generated from the game and refunding to customers outside of the country

[@sambishop1000]

Such an important video. As you say… most don’t know the full impact of what is going on…. However clearly something that must be reviewed

[@Yoshi278]

My digital library has ballooned up to about 1800 games. But I am so disgruntled with a lot of whats going on that I refuse to purchase any more games unless I truly think they deserve it (like the new Elden Ring expansion) and now use my own GOG installers or download repacks if I really have to and back them up to cold storage so that I can keep the games. I've decided I am sick of being farmed by these companies and I now own my media, regardless of the legality.

[@Born_Reddy]

Love the forward planning mate. I always advocate voting with your wallet but I need to take my own advice more often

[@SomeCanine]

TBH we need to boycott all DLC. That's one aspect of the industry that is out of control.

[@SomeCanine]

@@MatthewMoreau LMAO, the game industry is not fine. Nearly all AAA games that have come out in the last 5-10 years have been increasingly woke and broken on release. They're more boring, lecturing and often impossible to play with the glitches and bugs. I refuse to pay for it. If you have no problem with it, go nuts. Spend all your money on it.

[@michaelroy7754]

How do you make sure you can keep them in storage?

[@ImDaRealBoi]

@@MatthewMoreaulmao xbox fanboy is drooling on every comment defending the billion dollar corpo

[@RandomGamerCory]

Keep in mind blackrock and esg also play a huge role Cant have your game company listed on the stock market if you don't sacrifice story and quality for diversity metrics, even if you lose customers you gain money from investments

[@Kyle7565]

Don’t forget Doom Eternal snap in counter-operative mode. It was a big part of the Advertising that you could spawn into other people’s campaign games as a powerful demon. Then they cancelled it a few years in after having already sold the game

[@darkzeroprojects4245]

Personally never was found of the idea since I can easily see potential hackers ruining people.

[@xXYannuschXx]

There are so few AA or AAA titles I actually enjoy these days. And when I finally find something its either: 1) a flop, cause it wasnt advertized well or the mainstream didnt like it 2) never getting a sequel, cause the devs/publisher found a more profitable game to make 3) the studio gets closed in favor of more profitable studios by the mother company/publisher, despite making good profits (looking at Hi-Fi Rush by Tango Gameworks)

[@juliofoolio2982]

The people who run the companies that publish aaa games, despise and hold pure contempt for gamers. Edit: My reasoning is purely based on profit seeking at all costs. Any discussion of how DEI is ruining games is a red herring and axe grinding.

[@Born_Reddy]

Literally, would sell your organs for profit if they could

[@heikkint]

Correct. And in the following years we are about to find out how much of that contempt there actually is. It is after all a relatively new idea that 'game makers hate their customers'. You could not see this much or at all in the past. Now it's everywhere on display.

[@omegaprime223]

@@Born_Reddy I'd be willing to wager that many of them are sociopaths of some degree, people aren't people to them, just numbers and tools.

[@TimJBucci]

*Cyael* sums things up pretty good - lot of DEI driven politics is in gaming now as well.

[@VioFax]

You are cheap attention.

[@13lackout360]

Live service games are like concert or event tickets. You buy it, have a good time (or not), and when the party's over and the playerbase goes on to other games, it's time to go home.

[@silenceburns1336]

I'd like to point out Neocore Games here, with Warhammer 40k Inquisitor Martyr. The game launched with the always online requirement as well as seasonal content. After enough requests, they recently implemented an offline mode, as well as a way to select season content to play. Also, all but a very select few DLCs are buyable using an in game, earnable currency. I don't remember where i was going here, but this felt right to call attention to.

[@Born_Reddy]

This I respect, they listened and addressed player feedback!

[@Wavy_Gravy]

Pre-orders ruined gaming. Once studios knew they at least made payroll, the pressure was off. Indie games used to be great, but now they're just corporations trying to scrape by with minimal efforts. Fuck ads, fuck celeb endorsements, fuck paying streamers. Fuck social media campaigns. We just want to feel alive behind the sticks, if not for, just one last time. -I-@M-0

[@bluemenace04]

Im to the point that if a company doesn't keep its promises when the game releases, it should be culled. Only when the consenquences get steep will these companies start to wise up. These companies dont need "tender love", they need "tough love" and correctional actions taken against them.

[@theguypersondude]

If its online, i ignore. If its single player or couch co op, i play.

[@elijahherstal776]

I'm just gonna say it like this: As a customer, you have the money- which means your voice is the most important, so speak with your wallet. >Do not buy anything from companies with these practices >Do not buy merch related to these games >Do not support streamers playing these games But I'll be honest, most people these days are too lacking in spine and impulse control to do any of the above, much less all of them.

[@om58499]

And that why $70 games exist cause none of them have spines

[@elijahherstal776]

@@om58499 correct. And I was saying this for a long time, even going back to the era when people were paying full price for the same Madden game every year (seriously, there was not much difference in them until they went to a new console)

[@jimmcphearson7252]

Unfortunately most gamers genuinely will eat the crap with a smile. People will talk about how disappointing Stanfield was but will still pre-order elder scrolls 6. Diablo 4 raked in a ton of money even after the immortal and overwatch controversies. I don't understand why people subject themselves to such poor treatment time and time again.

[@darkzeroprojects4245]

Which is the problem. They will consume anything, easily be manipulated to as well. Look at how this dum ai trend is supported by morons who firmly believe they own the "libs" or "progs" supporting it. Or stupid enough to buy regardless and not alternatives in any form.

[@darkzeroprojects4245]

​@@jimmcphearson7252 it's why I tbh am done listening to "gamers" who do. The fighting game community, the blizzard fans, Nintendo fans, all of em irked me to no end. I have slowly but surely been not buying much games these days just to prioritize for my own other hobbies including game dev. Even though i loved metroid after 2017 never touched a new game since.

[@AlanWilhelm-fv7to]

The gaming industry has simply undergone the same transformation as every other industry: financialization. Once you get private equity firms running the show, who are concerned solely with increasing shareholder value, it’s over. Your product is meaningless. No decision will be made that doesn’t increase short term profits.

[@cheako91155]

5:47 This is the issue, they can sell something that doesn't exist they don't even have to make a game as good as No Man's Sky was at launch and they would still sell copies and make money. Game companies don't need to do anything, it's the customers that need to change and not just most customers all of them.

[@Wbfuhn]

I'd complain about new games being killed off, if they were actually good. There are more good older games than newer games. Live service games are expensive in the long run. There's a mod for The Crew that makes it run offline. Since The Crew isn't supported or available anymore from Ubisoft this is legal as Ubisoft won't be harmed from this mod, either financially or internally.

[@andreasplosky8516]

I have not pirated a game in many, many years, but now Piracy is looking better and better, again. I want to use this occasion to thank all the competent pirates that have our backs.

[@jameshughes3014]

I recently got into being an indie game dev, because i was just so disappointed with what the industry was churning out. this stuff actually gives me hope. The gaming industry is crumbling under the weight of corporate greed, which opens the door for us independent creatives to share our stuff with the world. I think we are entering a golden age of small to medium sized indie game studios making lots of great stuff for people who want good, unique fun creative games.

[@VideoJamesNZ]

All entertainment is being destroyed. It's like we're not allowed anything fun anymore.

[@GamerModz123]

In my opinion, it's largely because of three reasons 1. We live in a global market. 2. Video games have become mainstream. 3. Microtransactions 1. In this age, it is estimated that at least 3-4 billion people play video games. If a company can snag even a small percentage of that, they will make money. 2. With video games more accessible than ever, casual gamers have overtaken the hardcore of the community. The more and more casual fans there are, the less you have to try because they are easier to please. Casual fans start out as supplementation of the more hardcore consumer base before ultimately replacing them as the new target demographic. This has been true for nearly every industry and it's definitely true for gaming. 3. Microtransactions have become more profitable than game sales. Look at any gaming companies revenue report, and if they have a popular live-service title, chances are they make hundreds of millions to billions of dollars USD from Microtransactions. EA alone made over 4 billion dollars in microtransactions in one year alone. With microtransactions all you need to do is make a mediocre game, generate a modest population, and pump out as many microtransactions as possible. Combined these three factors incentivize an almost fast food structure in the industry.

[@Dany-rx7rs]

True

[@Born_Reddy]

Nailed it!

[@protostar5946]

Definitely blaming casuals for their stupidly low standards and inability to call this out. SMFH

[@Trenjeska]

The simple solution is to FINALLY classify ALL digital content as goods and forbid any licensing of goods to consumers. Goods may _only_ be sold and ownership (of that copy) is always transferred and all rights that accompany goods are non-revocable. (i.e. they may be re-sold, inherited, given away, personal copies may be made - as long as you own the initial copy -, altered, destroyed,... etc)

[@QuantemDeconstructor]

Only problem is that'd make Subscription models such as WoW and FF14 not work

[@Trenjeska]

@@QuantemDeconstructor True, but at least those are more true services where you know what you pay for what. ( I pay this amount for this long of access) When going to a cinema, you pay for the experience, not so much for the content. The largest problem atm is that the gray area between goods or services is allowed to exist, where you have neither protection of a good or service, nor the benefits of a good or service. Services come with a _known_ expiration. Goods come with a known expiration (guarantee/ expiration date for spoilable goods) or the expected lifetime of that good (like a chair lasting for decades). A bought game with online dependencies, doesn't come with a known expiration date. So what is it? is it a good or a service? What is it expected lifetime? A week (some botched online game) or decades? (like guild wars). The EU actually refuses to classify a game like this (see the latest update video from accursed farms)

[@QuantemDeconstructor]

@@Trenjeska Yeah the law REALLY needs to decide whether games are a good or a servive, for the consumer's sake

[@Born_Reddy]

Or at least, force the seller to classify it more clearly. If gamers were actively faced with "buy product A as a good, or product B as a service" it would be easier for the general consumer to understand what they're getting. And then if a company does sell something as goods they'd need to keep in line with that

[@troysimmons506]

I doubt the gameing industry will recover F around and find out they will lose the majority of the consumer market

[@DJGHOSH]

One of my regrets from a while ago was going through a really rough financial spot and having to sell my 360 and my PS3 and all the games that I had for them to get by, and now with the new consoles, it is an unending shit waterfall of partial games, that keep throwing crap on the menu to buy more components for the game that weren't there on release, and even if I want to play the games that I had previously bought, there either partially available, or not playable on these new platforms. It is such a drag of an industry now to be a fan of.

[@DJGHOSH]

@@MatthewMoreau I have ps plus and xboxnetwork. Most of the games that I would want to play from the PlayStation 3 or the xbox 360 aren't available on the new platforms or services.

[@belldrop7365]

If only false advertising was illegal, these game companies wouldn't be advertising false features.

[@cheako91155]

Buying something they are not selling... Stupid is as stupid does.

[@adcaptandumvulgus4252]

Glad modding old offline games counter this.

[@grandstarstudiosFORMER-YT]

wait untill publishers ban modding...

[@inkchariot6147]

​@@grandstarstudiosFORMER-YT That would be like North Korea trying to go to war with America, the most one sided battle ever.

[@smonster]

This has been an ongoing problem for the past decade and consumers don't vote with their wallets. Everyone is fighting among themselves and companies see other companies doing it and getting away with it. It is perfect for companies. They don't care about the users they care about their shareholders and nothing else. If no one is gonna give them a slap on their hands nothing will ever change.

[@reidboggs4344]

No disc, no buy. No offline, no buy.

[@morgans4977]

Unfortunately, publishers ship game disks with hardly anything on them. :( I've worked on games where they declare the game has gone gold, print disks and then crunch the team for a day one patch. The boxes don't even always reflect that you need an Internet connection to get that necessary patch.

[@baki484]

​​​@@morgans4977 my collection doesn't have a game like that and I didn't connect my ps4 onto the internet until 2021 and my games don't have day one patches as for patches watch Dogs 2 and JFO updated my ps4's software. My Xbox has never been connected online games like watchdogs one had an update for my system as well given the change slight changes on the dashboard. My ps5 is no different. I do this to see if the game is on the disk even though the cap on my internet is removed

[@cheako91155]

8:05 When ppl are so clueless about how the world works they are susceptible to all sorts of scams and drifters, regulating companies will not stop making bogus products from being profitable and as long as ppl will buy a product you'll find someone selling.

[@wdf70]

I mean, the laws allow these companies to make slop because the customers do nothing about it other than yell into the comment section or reddit. Then you try to go to the law makers about it and they're an old turtle who's last game they played was Frogger on an arcade machine back in the 80's and think's they're a waste of time and ignore your concerns or add it to the never ended list of "we'll get to it eventually."

[@cheako91155]

@@wdf70 Even if it was illegal, that wouldn't stop ppl from doing that unless there was nobody dumb enough to fall for it. You're basically trying to make being a Nigerian Prince illegal, good luck with that.

[@sujimatsubackupaccount194]

Fun fact if you read nintendos eula on switch. The first section liscence/ grant . Because nintendo failed to send signed signatures to everyone via document . The nintendo eula is non enforcable.

[@Wolf359inc]

Aspirin and the Switch port of KotOR II. They promised they would incorporate the fan-made patch to make the game, well, playable. Then, after taking everyone’s money, advised they would not be doing that. To their credit, they did offer a free PC game as compensation, so I opted for the PC version of KotOR II, so I could patch it and play it…

[@cobaltfog]

The sooner these public companies out here bashing their customers fail, the better for everyone (other than their employees).

[@SamanthaRostova]

"corporations are ruining our favourite corporate slop something must be done!"

[@fuhreaks]

If you have the know how and the passion for it, one of the best ways you can help combat this is to just become a game developer yourself and practice good public relations. The more indie devs that keep eating AAA developer's lunch the more they are forced to adapt and start treating customers better. If you can't do that then at least stop buying new games until they have proven that it's not going to be a rug pull, there's plenty of other games.

[@Born_Reddy]

I love this take. Indie's have really shown their strength in the past few years and the contrast is insane.

[@nerdzone]

It's the shops that need to establish the rules of ownership of sold games, that's not to be expected by the publishers. And currently none of the big names wants to work against companies to make games sold actually yours to own and not to use. None of them. Not Nintendo, not Steam, not Sony, not Microsoft. GOG, itch and some other small markets do make that as a rule - you own what you buy. But the publishers generally don't want that and that's why a lot of games are not on these markets. People also don't care. They are fine for now since they get to spend their money on underprised games and tons of them. It's all cool and dandy until the times comes that a lot of licences will start getting revoked. And make no mistake, this will happen. A lot of the licences that under which games were created and sold are subject to expiration. We have not reached that point yet.

[@Pen_Slinger]

While I do think companies turning games into scams is a problem, I do not think getting the government involved will fix anything; they're just going to make everything worse.

[@Born_Reddy]

Quite possibly, I'm definitely not going to suggest most governments aren't in the pocket of big businesses or inept at the best of times.

[@cheako91155]

6:57 Consumers should be knowing that they are renting games that don't offer a downloadable server. It would be better if there was no money and no incentive to create online games like Diablo3.

[@TimJBucci]

It's crazy how much money Blizzard still makes for its ancient game World of Warcraft, but it apparently has never and will never be enough for them... They created their own Campaign Editors in games, and then the idea for DOTA 2 began, which lead to the gameplay of Overwatch, and yet Blizzard had to rewrite their End User Agreement to never allow a mistake like that again... all based on the greed from the Activision merger.

[@Born_Reddy]

Diablo Immortals monetary success has been the final nail in that coffin I believe. And that Warcraft agreement to remove any type of player driven innovation is such an insane move. No one worth their salt with a good idea is now going to play and mod Warcraft. But if they'd allowed it without the greed and an insanely popular mod was created, for free, by a modder, then imagine how many copies of warcraft they'd sell so those interested could play the mod. Such insane levels of greed

[@TimJBucci]

@@Born_Reddy “Money is numbers and numbers never end. If it takes money to be happy, your search for happiness will never end.” ~ Bob Marley

[@justinmaitland7335]

I am glad I left gaming behind a decade ago, it seems everything has gone to shit and these companies have been taken over by bean counters.

[@hughgrection7246]

If you got to play Red Dead Redemption 2 before you gave up gaming I'd say you made the right choice. If you didn't you owe it to yourself to play that ONE title before you retire from gaming for good.

[@Born_Reddy]

I'd add Elden Ring to that list! Some of the few games that haven't sacrificed their quality

[@OfficialpKIndustries]

​@@Born_Reddy pretty mid after you realize half the game is copy paste quantity over quality.

[@RSAgility]

dont forget the bean counters exist solely to make sure theres never any left over for any one else, even the floor bugs. edit:(The beans that fall, are modders and creators, the bean counters throw them out if they cant combine them into their pile) ...pure greed. Soon we will pay for oxygen to breathe.

[@alonshechter8676]

Rdr2 is also a borefest

[@arsenii_yavorskyi]

it's not "digital vs physical" issue. games delivered digitally may remain functional indefinitely, unless the developer proactively implements measures to break it later. this is usually done via always online DRM, which prevents the game from working once the company shuts down the authentication server.

[@Voidrune]

If we’re going to say that if a promise is broken than the players deserve some sort of compensation than that compensation needs to also have clear rules cause if not than blizzard per say could not deliver pve and as “compensation” every player gets a shoddy sticker.

[@RustyhairedAlp9575]

Game companies must have taken marketing advice from politicians lmaooooo

[@chunkblaster]

Everyone should contribute to the Stop Killing Games campaign by Ross Scott!

[@STBill]

They are destroying *THEIR* games. We can just choose to buy something else or play old games. Also, if buying a game is not owning it. Pirating is not stealing! 🏴‍☠ Gamers win again! 🗿

[@TheVoltDenatsu]

This is what led to the rise of indie game devs from the guy that made Cave Story to Toby Fox. It's better to support the small team games because if we continue to support large scale industries they will continue to put out half products at 3 times the cost of an indie title made by a few people. When i put out my game The Customer is Always Right I noticed it gets a lot of traffic metric but almost no sales. It's weird because I think it's being pirated and played but not bought on the market. So it's doing its job it just isn't making money because market saturation in 2024 is no joke. And its an under dollar title. So to me the financial aspect of the game companies is being fully supported because ANYONE will play a new kotor, or fallout, or mario. These companies just don't want to take the risk of not meeting a financial point. I made my game at the risk of homelessness, I didn't care if it was a commercial success. And if game companies dont adapt that mindset the industry is doomed

[@YEAHKINDA]

I'm gonna put my stance like this: If I ever release a paid live service game, I am going to either continue developing it, or I'm going to return 3/4 the purchase cost of the game. I can't expect a game or studio to refund every cent of cosmetics or purchases, simply because it's basically earning zero money, but I can at least expect them to refund some amount of the base price and/or give the player vouchers for future or current titles. I won't try to be ultra-greedy, but I also don't intend on making a paid game to be zero-profit. I also intend to outline the user's rights and the fact that they OWN their copy of the game, but don't own the license to copy it. Basically, the way that games do it now, is so utterly stupid to me. Live service games deserve to be, well, LIVE service. Anything else deserves to be complete and owned by the player.

[@1un4cy]

Still waiting for Blizzard to get class-actioned for Warcraft 3. They literally stole a physical product from people 20 years later and there's been nothing we could do about it.

[@FogHazard]

For PC, not including LAN multiplayer is unacceptable. Games I enjoy, such as Syndicate (2012), Sniper Elite 5, and Ghost Recon: Wildlands/Breakpoint, rely on servers. Syndicate's coop is now unplayable since EA shutdown the servers despite the game using peer-to-peer connection for coop. They could have patched in LAN, but chose not to. Sniper Elite is using a popular server (I want to say it's Epic, which many other games use, but I may be talking out my ass), so that's not as concerning, but both mentioned Ghost Recon games rely on Ubisoft for connection. Without LAN support, it will be impossible to play coop in the future. Consumers need some sort of protection for cases like these.

[@flobbie87]

I think, if they don't deliver they have to compensate. That is probably the law in most countries. The players probably just have to organize and sue. Maybe there will be a mechanism for that in the future.

[@planescaped]

I can still remember a time when you could decline the EULA and still play the game, it would just lock you out of online features.

[@lucasterable]

Minimum Viable Product sold at Maximum Viable Price

[@Eleven217]

I have a rule of thumb for this exact problem: If you were to pirate a game and it wouldn't work as if it had been bought. Don't buy it.

[@Okla_Soft]

I own a switch, but I’ve purchased maybe 12 games for it over the years, and frankly my go-to game console is my PC, as I mainly play emulated n64 and snes / game boy titles

[@GusCraft460]

There should be some legal mechanism by which a playerbase can usurp control of a game from developers.

[@malohn2068]

Games are financially viable if they stopped focusing on graphics. Graphics is probably like 30% of the fucking budget.

[@thygrrr]

We never owned the games. Software is licensed, even on a physical medium. (I hate that, but that's what it is like.) We need to fight against "Intellectual Property" and as communities support more free & libre games, as well as bring about legislation that shortens copyright terms to under 10 years post release (I would suggest no more than 5, half of all games are now coming in yearly installments anyway and sales drop off a cliff after 3 years anyhow), and legislation that forces games and their source code into the public domain immediately once their services are discontinued.

[@Born_Reddy]

You're absolutely right, I should have been more specific in that aspect of it, thanks for the comment and feedback :)

[@TheGreatDanish]

Don't buy from big publishers. Just don't. Buy indie or maybe mid range. But AAA games are dead. And that's fine. The industry is alive and well if you stop thinking the only good game is a 100 million dollar block buster

[@AleXavieR-l2t]

True, if anything, I also buy my games dirt cheap, rarely for the past 6 months do I remember purchasing something over $20

[@ethernetgirl2001]

yeah this is pretty much where i fall at the moment. unless its something that i really cant wait for because im too excited i wont be buying any more AAA games on release, theyre pretty much always broken nowadays anyway. even shadow of the erdtree i waited until the coop mod was updated and only started playing last night. AAA single player games will be exclusively pirated from now on unless i can family share them because i just cant support this culture anymore they have these developers destroying their minds and bodies with stress from the constant crunch, working overtime not able to spend time with their families just to lay them all off the moment something goes wrong. if spending $70 on every new game doesnt guarantee job security for the people who actually made it why would i even bother at this point.

[@Wavy_Gravy]

Rug pull isn't a term used for companies that take preorders and steal the money(as can be made a case for). It's just embezzlement, and corruption charges down the book. Bait and switch is when you're trading assests. A game dev can't commit insider trading, if they do something to their game, based on illegally aquired information.

[@Wavy_Gravy]

They can commit to inside trading, if they know a company is going to fall down, and shouldn't. But, there would have to be trades made, as in stocks, not crypto. Unless you buy stocks with crypto/profits from.

[@jaysherman2615]

​@@Wavy_Gravy That is what happened to Yuji Naka. He got a heads up on the release of a game and made an investment in that company with that information. I think it was a Dragon Quest game that did him in.

[@eamonndoyle4753]

This is why I don't buy live service games, I prefer single-player games anyway, and if I'm forced to connect to the Internet to play these games, I download cracks to bypass that if available and games I don't own I'll probably end up downloading them unethically more & more, which I prefer not to do, this is the direction game companies are pushing people to take unfortunately. All live service games should have the ability to allow gamers to set up their own servers before that game is taken offline for good.

[@TheVoiceOfReason93]

If it's not financially viable then why the hell do they do them? It's utterly irrational. It reeks of incompetence and ignorance at the top and even middle-management level.

[@SigmaMan1448]

At least the enshittification of the games industry can bring more attention to smaller games like Kitten Burst

[@jiggerypokery2962]

I've bought plenty of day 1 games and the unfinished narrative needs to die. I've never played a game and thought "This is completely broken" but little itsy bitsy graphical glitches or otherwise none gameplay or progress effecting bugs here or there but never unplayable. It's totally overblown. Pay for games not promises.

[@saturationstation1446]

when you signal to eurocentric entities that you are addicted to something, they will utilize that knowledge to your disadvantage. when your system incentivizes exploitation and mass harm, thats what its going to do. but hey, thats a conversation strictly for adults, and video games were created to market to children originally..

[@J0vile]

Oh boy, nintendo advertising in the 80s was so successful, it's referred to as "originally."

[@theactualtsl]

"eurocentric entities," gtfo of here

[@blob22201]

What a weird use of the word 'eurocentric'

[@grandstarstudiosFORMER-YT]

ONE WORD TO OWN GAMES: sail

[@wdf70]

Yar har!

[@kelvinsantiago7061]

This is whybi suppord Smaller AA and indie companies like Spiders, Piranha Bytes and Vewo interactive.

[@shamandgg]

There should be a law that after 10 years source code should be released to all public libraries, so anyone can recompile game for future generations

[@LG-bb5zq]

This is why I dont play most major titles nowadays. So much monetisation. Live service. Im not even bothered to pay for games anymore, why would I want to line the pockets of greedy companies? Id much rather pirate these shoddy half baked experiences.

[@robind8526]

It's as if they want games to expire and then we all have to buy new product. Nah, they wouldn't do that would they?

[@bapnap6218]

Dont look at your phone it might expire to. For real though they want you forced to buy there slop.

[@uk6396]

I complained a lot after I bought mw2 how shit these companies are and how they screwing us over but in reality this shit doesn't matter at all. You don't need to buy these games, you don't need a new cod every year. If you just avoid a few companies you still get a good experience at gaming. Played through the terraria calamity mod recently. 14€ game, free mod and countless hours of fun. If people learned just to Ignore Beshitsta, Actishition, EShAt and all the other garbage companies, they would starve over time and either become better or vanish to make space for new things.

[@VideoJamesNZ]

You exchanged money for a product, you should be able to access the full potential of that product at all times. How are they even getting away with this?? It's pretty simple. All my old cartridges still work, including their multiplayer modes. Being forced to press a button saying 'I accept' isn't the same as signing a contract. It's pretty much just pressing a button on a toy, essentially. There's nothing legally binding in that. We press the same damn button to make our playable characters jump or attack or whatever for goodness sake. They make it sound like we become blood brothers to said company for just pushing a damn button. These companies NEED to be bought down a few pegs. Or at least there needs to be an alternative. What are our options if we don't accept? I was never given the choice to send my console back to the manufacturer for a full refund! I bought my console under a totally different TOS, so they can f**k off!

[@SkylerLinux]

Yes it is Black and White, It's very simple to fix and we don't have to buy their garbage. I would like to note that Doom is the everlasting meme and juggernaut because it was Open Sourced both the tools to work with it and the whole game and engine. Doom (2016) would not be a thing with out "Yes, but can it run Doom?"

[@TyrooShino]

Soulsborne/Elden Ring and Kojima - "what on earth are they doing to our industry?!"

[@michaelroy7754]

I almost exclusivly play single player. When i bought these years ago i expected i vmcould play them in perpetuity.

[@kagetsuki23]

They are destroying everything not only games. They destroyed movies, tv shows and comics too.

[@MartySnowdog]

That is so disgusting. We should analyze every product and company hard before buying anything at all. And definitely avoid ubisoft and blizzard at all costs. They are unreliable liers and scammers. Also, generally avoid live services games too. I am personally done with live services games. Only single player games that do not rely on internet.

[@demoncushion9600]

If buying is not owning. Then piracy is not theft. How can you steal something you can not own?

[@smugfrog8111]

As long as my nearly 30 year old Super Mario 64 cart still works, and very much does; Then these companies should have to keep their games working. That's the standard, N64 carts. I want THAT level of durability and reliability for that long. At the very least while locally played in single player. If I wanna fire up a game 30 years from now, I should be able to. Anything less is not acceptable.

[@QuantemDeconstructor]

I think the worst part is the consumers that try to defend companies' behavior, most recently Tekken 8 had added mtx and a battle pass, 2 things the series never needed before to do well, AFTER hitting record sales for the franchise. They say things like "Just don't buy it" and "you're broke" to defend a company that's blatantly lying to them and is just there to juice them for all they're worth.

[@Born_Reddy]

This is the key problem, people get really defensive over titles and feel like you're taking shots at them for speaking negatively about a companies practices.

[@QuantemDeconstructor]

@@Born_Reddy We're in a modern day and age where keeping it a buck is somehow a bad thing when all of us just want to enjoy a product with no strings attached. At least indie games have been absolutely insane these past years to make up for AAA blunders

[@honeydew1254]

I don't get paid a lot so i have to carefully pick games with a large amount of playability but at this rate im going to be playing older games like gmod and other valve games i love sandbox games and its funny that very few are even in productions because they can be harder to monetize without willing it outright

[@mevans4953]

When companies think DEI and diversity lets them get their unlimited growth that’s when games started to break. We had a single core audience developers catered to for years and their only focus was on quality. Now they think everyone deserves to be represented, but it only results in division and conflict and most importantly always results in a bad product. But “modern audiences” buy them anyway.

[@mek101whatif7]

Profit incentive be like:

[@GodOfOrphans]

I actually beleive the morality of this entire situation is extremely black and white. The companies are unhyperbolically and unrepentantly evil, abusing the inexperience and lack of resources of the laymen to sue them for blatant abuse of contracts and treating property law as if it only applies to the corporation and not the customer. The rare instances where it is challenged the corpos tend to fold and settle but most people don't have the time and or money, or are just too intimidated and inexperienced to take it to court. The constant changes to ToS that one is forced to agree to just to maintain access to their property is extortion plain and simple. The removal of the customers rightfully purchased property be it whole games or even stuff as small as cosmetics, for any reason, is theft simple as. Everything else is irrelevant obfuscation of these very simple truths and the idea that there's any grey area in this front at all is a fabrication by corrupt individuals who maintain their power by obscuring these self evident moral truths with as much arbitrary and intentionally obtuse legalese as possible.

[@vac59]

Revenue Revenue drumbeat

[@juniormint5065]

happened to darkspore. Was a great single player game and if it was made open source and people could host on their own computer then people would be able to play it to this day. instead they stole the game from everyone.

[@jgn1977]

I think games that are not sold should be forced to be free to the community after servers are closed for it. I should be able to be able to play all the mmos that I bought on a private server.

[@a.ndy.nonymous]

Kerbal Space Program 2's entire dev team was fired just this last week. Take Two Interactive killed that game after 1.5 years of "early access" and only one major update in that time. There was to be multiplayer and a new star system to travel to. Thankfully the game is still around, (for now) but the roadmap is a lie, the game still has so many bugs, and the community is PISSED. To be honest though, i partially blame the KSP player base because they didnt buy into the early access due to their unanimous decision to "wait for the full release" To which Take Two decided that "this early access isnt making money so fire everyone involved" Take Two Interactive publishes GRAND THEFT AUTO!! They have more money than Jesus and KSP has a small player base andthe dev crew consisted of 70 people.... Pay these people to actually FINISH and release the game Take Two!! Please!

[@Born_Reddy]

Brutal to hear they cut it. This is what I really want to see change. Anyone who did want to support the game and bought in to see that realised just got the finger.

[@gideonhorwitz9434]

Check the game budgets from now on if it’s as reaching Hollywood levels of excess then 98% chance it’s gonna flop

[@Real-Name..Maqavoy]

Already working on a solution (got blueprint alrdy + applying for a patent soon) over here. But...! I'm 90% US will abuse it tho so a lil worry on how to implement it.. + a lot of things are *B2B* now. Not *B2C* as they once were.

[@CoperliteConsumer]

5 years of support should be the mandatory minimum

[@DVictor23]

I really cannot bring my self to care...I've been playing mainly AA and Indie games for a bit more than a decade now. If anything, the death of AAA is a good thing, gaming needs to be a niche hobby again.

[@MobiusMundUr]

It's very simple. *Stop fuckin buyin them.*

[@SurfbyShootin]

Video games compete with social media, which gets in the way of letting algorithms condition you.

[@milkqt666]

Like microsoft buying studios are then closing them in masses, what was the point