Comparing Lionel’s and SunSet 3rd Rail’s Big Boys

A quick video comparing Lionel‘s and Sunset’s version of the O scale Big Boy

[@TomzTrainzandAccessories]

I personally have the early first generation Lionel Big Boy steam locomotive. I bought it brand new when it came out back in 1999. I thought it was spectacular back then, and I still love it today. You’re correct, it is the older TMCC control without Odyssey speed control, but I did recently upgrade with the Electric Railroad Company (ERR) Cruise Commander “M” (CCM) Odyssey speed control, and what a fantastic difference it has made. She can just creep along without having to adjust the speed all of the time. I really enjoy it now. As far as the sound board, I still enjoy the original, so I’ll be keeping it that way. I know the newer Big Boys have a lot more details and features, but that’s OK. I still love Lionel’s original from 1999. I do like the weathering you did to yours. It gives it more of an authentic look like it would have looked like back in the 40’s and 50’s. Great job!

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

That is an awesome model. I’ve had mine since new also. Glad to see you are running the 4006 and with that ERR upgrade it must be a great runner. Thank you for commenting

[@ralphmiller2265]

I did the same with my Pennsylvania T1. Like you said, it's a totally different locomotive in performance with that simple CCM install.

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

It really is a nice upgrade for the older tmcc locos

[@solutions2exist556]

Really appreciated comparison. I like 3rd Rail, but their prices are subject to increases after order and that is not 3rd Rail’s fault. China might need the work now so Scott at 3rd Rail might want to drive a new contract for new stuff. Cost overrun caps. Among others. I have seven Diesel engines and would like to get an H10. Wished 3rd Rail would produce new Big Boy. But I guess I will have to buy the new 2023 Lionel Big Boy. Still …, that H10 NYC in the running for my limited dollars. Weathered when you have a great layout like yours. Really fantastic comparison of about similar age engines. Mine ride the display cases. Two Challengers and a Big Boy along with 8444 plus other stuff. Great job. I subscribed with the thumb up.

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

Thank you for watching and commenting

[@techrider2088]

Perfect weathering. I love what you’ve done. Beautiful section of layout. Thanks for sharing. 👍

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

Thank you for the comment. I’m glad you enjoyed it. Hopefully I will have more videos up right after Thanksgiving

[@williamkolina3988]

Outstanding engines Outstanding weathering I will gladly take either one off your hands 😉

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

Thank you. 😀

[@ralphmiller8087]

Weathering a model locomotive seems to an art form.

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

Hi Ralph. Thanks for watching my video and commenting.

[@texaseagletrains]

Nice sound in the #4023! Beautiful layout too!

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

Thank you. I think the 4023 has better sounds also. I should’ve upgraded the speaker when I did the 4006.

[@texaseagletrains]

@@jdogaugemodeltrains522 I should look at upgrading my dad's #4023.

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

@@texaseagletrains 4023 is great model. I bought mine secondhand and it was really in need of a lot of work, that’s why it got the upgrade. But I’m very happy with it.

[@richardnelson6239]

Indeed nice looking locomotive

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

Thank you.

[@milehirail8877]

I may be biased but I prefer the 3rd Rail. I picked up the same 3rd Rail Anniversary Edition Big Boy earlier this year, however with road number 4024. I also upgraded it to ERR, and gave it a semi-weathered, recently shopped look with semi gloss paint. Hope to make a running video of it someday. The weathering on your 4000s is excellent. Thanks for sharing

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

4024 the last one made. I really prefer the Sunset model also. It has great detail and the ERR upgrade makes it run great. Hope you really enjoy yours. Thanks for commenting.

[@av8tor1908]

Agreed, the 3rd Rail is the better 4000 series. Detail is much better. I’m impressed by the weathering on both models, they look correct for the era and the colors you choose are accurate.

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

@@av8tor1908 Thank you. I had a great video that briefly featured all 24 Big Boys, and helped me with the weathering.

[@ralphmiller2265]

When it comes to putting ERR in a locomotive, though you can put the magnets on the tender wheels for the chuff/puff sync. I prefer to place the magnets (I have very thin ones) on a Locomotive wheel. I prefer this because I am a four chuff per revolution person. Now some tender wheels are half the diameter of the drive wheels and therefore, a couple well-placed magnets will do the trick. However, not all tender wheels are 50% proportioned with the drivers so you have to go with magnets on a loco driver for more accuracy. From this video, it sounds like the ERR sound is bigger, or fuller than the PS3 sounds. Of course Lionel is known for having the best sound system even thoug I think DCS is a better operating system over TMCC. Legacy is more of a match even though it is TMCC on steroids. I love the weathering you've done on these two locomotives. This is what I don't do because I don't feel I can do as good a job as what I see here or other professional artistic modelers can do. I'm not a great electronics person either but I've gotten pretty good at ERR installations. I would like however, to see a Sunset 3rd Rail Big Boy get a full Legacy upgrade, whistle steam and all. Now that would be an incredible model!!!

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

That’s a great idea. Thanks for that tip.

[@DynamicDuo795]

Great video! Even though both these engine's came out over 20 years ago the Lionel version is much more detailed and has the better sound system and as you mentioned it is slightly longer making it more scale sized. Sunset 3rd Rail brass models from the late 1990's and early 2000's were not very well detailed and some looked very crude compared to what you would have seen from other O gauge manufacturers at that time. The Sunset 3rd Rail version has the wrong sound files. They used an N&W Y6b sound file but this was typical of most if not all 3rd Rail articulated steamers since 3rd Rail like all other minority O gauge makers were licensed the old Lionel TMCC and Railsounds 4.0 system that had very limited sound options. None the less both are very nice models.

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

Thanks Alex for all the information on the models. I appreciate you commenting on my video.

[@ralphmiller2265]

I had a friend here in Texas who was a scale brass guy and he said when it cam to the Big Boy, Lionel's JLC Big Boy (of 2007) was dead on accurate in length whereas the MTH Big Boy was a 'pencil on wheels', it was too long by about a half inch.

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

I have the Lionel JLC Big Boy. I’m using it to do “how to install a kadee coupler” and “how to weather “ videos. Maybe I’ll do an update later comparing all three

[@Trains847]

Very cool

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

Thank you

[@PedrotheOscalecollector]

I have mth first scale premier bigboy and I love that sunset model bigboy

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

I’d love to have the MTH version, MTH steam locos are the best. Glad you are enjoying yours. Thank you and please keep checking out my videos and commenting

[@PedrotheOscalecollector]

@@jdogaugemodeltrains522 I have the mth premier 1996 allgehey and mth premier chessie steam special and I'm having them both upgraded to ps3 and I have a couple of diesel but I love steam locomotive more

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

@@PedrotheOscalecollector that allegheny is very nice. Wish I had one. I haven’t seen the cheesiest in person but it was built by MTH it must be very nice. The upgrades are the way to go.

[@PedrotheOscalecollector]

@@jdogaugemodeltrains522 I got mth premier allegheny in excellent condition for 489.99

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

@@PedrotheOscalecollector that’s a great deal. Glad you did well

[@NB-ski]

Which Kadee couplers did you use for these? I am about to start converting my stuff. Thank you!

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

Hi, thanks for watching the video. I usually like to use the 805 or the 740 couplers. Sometimes I may use a longer shank if necessary

[@MrTbone1214]

Weathering is looking good! Only suggestion is more dull coat on the Lionel tender to get rid of the shine and maybe more of the grimly color so you don't have the tiger stripe look.

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

Thanks for commenting. Yeah the Lionel tender is a little shiny still. It’s pretty noticeable in the video. I’ll just hit it with the air brush again when I add coal to the coal load. I’m still gonna leave it stripped looking just dull that shine with some black grime. 4006 looks striped in a video I have and I’m trying to copy that look. It definitely needs a touching up. Thanks again and please keep the comments coming.

[@MrTbone1214]

Sounds like a good plan to me! Happy Rails!

[@conductorjohnmthtrains2239]

I have to admit my MTH steamers are built very very well, i purchased these 2 and that was it, the reason i have 12 Lionel steamers is because of the sound (LEGACY)😊

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

Legacy sound is definitely the best out there. We are lucky MTH did cause a rise in quality many years ago that forced everybody else to raise their game.

[@bill091086]

You have TWELVE Lionel Big Boys??! Wow, you must be loaded $$$ 😮 I bought my ONE around 2002 and I think that it was manufactured around 1996. It's nice, but the smoke just kind of drifts out the stacks. It doesn't puff with each stroke like yours. I don't know if yours is a slightly later model or what. I haven't run it in years, but I don't recall that it could creep from a start as slowly as yours. You're right; the camera angle is deceiving; the Lionel at rear seems shorter than the one in front.

[@conductorjohnmthtrains2239]

@@bill091086 now they all have fan driven smoke units, back then it was just a little piston sriven by the wheels to make puffing smoke

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

@@bill091086 thank you for the comment. I think we have the same model big boy but mine stopped running in 2016 so I changed the electronics. That’s why it smokes and runs differently. It’s a very nice model, I hope you have gotten to enjoy yours. Please keep checking back. I will have more videos up soon

[@conductorjohnmthtrains2239]

I have 2 modern MTH Steamers, daylight&Cabforward. Only in the Labor intensity mode using MTH APP do they really sound like lionel stuff. Oh wel. But that 3rd rail sounds really good. What was the upgrade in the 3rd rail?. And are these engines tmcc?

[@jdogaugemodeltrains522]

Yes the sunset big boy is TMCC. I replaced the old Train America Studios electronics with ERR cruise commander, Articulated Sound, a new blower smoke unit with chuff and LED lightning