Competitive Gaming Has Ruined MMORPGs

[@reburox]

I don't know I like Stuff like RWF, MDI or AWC but ... PvP for example is something I never touch at all these days.

[@Vaffel91]

Classic wow was about determination, not about skill.

[@Sheir01]

1 to 60 sure but anything end game is all about how fast you can finish a dungeon or raid.

[@Vaffel91]

@ sry i meant vanilla, classic was a shitshow imo with logs and speedruns etc. really not in the spirit of vanilla

[@TeddyBelcher4kultrawide]

There’s no skill in wow only time

[@jrpgnation6375]

Yeah, people keep inviting me to play with them, but I refuse. Every time I join voice chat, I get told how to play, what to use, or what not to use. I'd rather solo what I can than play with others who yell at me for mistakes while completely forgetting that the only constant in their game is themselves. It reminds me of Overwatch. I made it to Platinum Division 1, but every tank on my team is gold or below. Every rank-up game was the same-always gold tanks or below. So, I quit ranked and started playing Quick Play. I open the voice chat channel, and it's always, 'Mercy, do this, Mercy, do that.' 'Ana, heal me, heal me,' while my heals are being denied by shields or D.Va's Defense Matrix. I point out the issue, and they ask me to switch to Zen or another type of support. They proceed to break line of sight with me and die. Or, better yet, they forget I'm playing low healing but steady support. Now they’re dead because they refuse to use the wall for cover. So now, I play with chat and voice off. I win more with chat and voice on, but it's not worth hearing people complain and scapegoat me for any perceived fault. I win less, but I'm happier.

[@reburox]

I had a similar problem in Guild Wars 2 PvP. It is great and fun even as F2P since you get all the gear by default (in pvp). However.. it became increasingly 'Toxic' mainly because the PvP-scene became smaller and smaller and what happens (in every game) the density of Toxic people starts to become more impactful. You encounter way more 'toxic'-behaviour and at a certain threshold the scene in every Game starts to cannibalize itself and even worse toxic people start to poison the Well (spring) and now the worst of the worst happens the Game-mode is declared Toxic and it is impossible to reverse that State of the Game even if you have a good experience the narrative of the game is set in stone at this point. In terms of Guild wars 2 pvp, the top pvp-scene is just full of win-traders, people who Q at 3 AM to dodge and manipulate match-making and so on. That might be not true but that is what the Game stands for now. And like you said the only Solution to keep playing is turn off chat and ignore everything surrounding the game which is fatal for an 'MMO' doesn't matter if FPS, MOBA, RTS or PvP in an MMORPG. Because it is based on Player interaction

[@Ferrolune]

World of Warcraft has shown some of the most noticeable signs of decline I’ve ever experienced in MMO history, and anyone who disagrees likely didn’t play during the original vanilla days or is unwilling to face reality. As someone who has permanently quit just two days into the current expansion after playing since 2005, I’ve experienced the game from nearly every angle. I’ve mastered multiple roles and classes, played both casually and competitively, and even led a mythic raiding team through Antorus. Over time, it’s become impossible to ignore the increasingly toxic environment, filled with entitled adults and immature players. You can’t convince me that getting kicked out of a heroic dungeon because your gear score wasn’t high enough was a common occurrence back in 2009, because it simply wasn’t. Sure, there are still casual guilds out there having fun while progressing through normal or heroic raids without drama, but that doesn’t change the fact that much of the community is making the game unwelcoming for those who just want to relax and enjoy themselves after a long day. Too many people are letting real-life attitudes bleed into the game, treating every second like it needs to be min-maxed to the extreme. To those players, I’d honestly suggest taking a break or switching to games like League of Legends or Fortnite, where that mindset is more fitting. This hyper-competitive approach is just as harmful as the political drama, and it’s pushing away players who want a more laid-back experience. Even Guild Wars 2 is starting to face similar problems, with players finding new ways to gatekeep content that should be accessible. Fortunately, learning sessions are common in that community, something WoW desperately needs more of.

[@nikoninen]

You always had to compete for spots even in this wonderland people who think original classic was, be it social or gear score or being high enough level or the certain class, it feels like people are just chasing a dreamworld that never existed because they played their first MMO when they were 13 and were immersed in an MMO world for the first time. Addons and competitive elements exist in content most people DO NOT do and while there is a VERY small trickle down effect from mythic to heroic etc it does not effect you if you are doing open world, normal mode dungeons or whatever else super casual content you would be doing. If focusing on higher-end content where being more selective matters is an extreme red herring which does not effect most people playing MMOs. The casual / non-competitive playerbase is MASSIVE in every MMORPG if you just want to look at it, the RP communities are huge in all MMOs and social guilds are so plentiful you could never actually make a list of them.

[@reburox]

I guess that is kinda the Problem if you want to play more casually or be part of more 'Immersive-Group-Gameplay' you really have to go and look for it or ignore a massive part of the Game. I mean it is not an issue that Hard-Competitive-Content exists the issue is more that it alienates a lot of people and paints a wrong picture of the game. For example many people don't play WoW because they think it is to competitive or you have to constantly farm gear which isn't really true anymore yes every season comes with a hard reset but within two hours you can be raid ready. I am not sure what it is but the part that is least played in an MMORPG (hard-content) is way too much straight in your face. Stuff like Tier-Lists, the ultimate Guide, how to, Best PvP class, farming guides and so on ... And as a Developer what choices do you have? Cater towards people who are constantly Yelling (endgame scene) or people who say nothing at all (casuals)

[@SarcasticTentacle]

The meta and it's consequences on videogames have been a disaster. People just copy the play of others who sound authoritative enough for the sake of being as "efficient" as possible and treating the game as a list of tasks to complete. If you're the sort of person who looks up builds for single player games rather than going in blind for the first time. YOU are the problem.

[@thorbenmoe4195]

mmorpgs are now mmogs.

[@ervinfejes9942]

In wow not the competitive gameplay is the problem, but the fact that competitive gameplay is tied to addons. On retail you cant do shit whiteout 5 addons. And here comes the real problem, skill is tied to addons and different weak auras etc. If you want a good competitive game than first of all you have to make an ''EVEN BATTLEFIELD'' where everyone should play with the same toolkit. Then we can talk about SKILL. So i like retail PVE content but i dont like the fact that 20 years wasnt enough for blizzard to make a complete funcional UI... Another big problem is the LOOT. Group loot simply sucks cuz always the biggest idiot who is dead always get the best loot xD Loot concil+ml in guilds also sucks cuz ppl are selfish and ofc they gonna give loot to the besties and the biggest ass lickers. I think personal loot with bonus rolls like in legion was the best. But they put back GL+ML in dragonflight... idk why. Maybe its working better for the booster community.

[@OboliskGaming]

fr fr

[@Girczuk]

Ye you say it ruined mmorpg but for me it made it better. Now i have some stuff to actually do in game. Raiding mythic, pushing raiting. Etc. But before? I did raid, few dailies and create another character. Why? Becouse there was nothing to do on my main. But you forgot about on important thing. Even casual players can enjoy competition. Competition means progression for them. Few months ago i met random healer guy on M+. He was strugling to heal +4. I talked to him, guided him. Now he is healing +10 and hes so happy. Does he enjoy the game? Sure! Would he enjoy game wihtout a progression i raiting? No. He would stop playing and wait for new content. Times change, ppl change. Mmorpg have to adapt in order to survive. You should ask yourself a question. Can a classic player enjoy retail? Anf the answer is yes. There is planty stuff to do. Transmog,delves, raid finder, achiev, mounts farm etc. I have few friends that are terrible at the game. Mouse clicking stuff. They cannot clear heroic raid. Does it mean they cannot enjoy the game? No. They do. Just in diffrent way.

[@Sheir01]

I think you’re missing the point. Yes from a technical gameplay standpoint, competition matters. But this isn’t about getting the best numbers or gear, it’s about the RPG in MMORPG. The days of playing an MMORPG to immerse yourself and roleplay a character in a fantasy world is gone. Now it’s about getting to the end and getting the best loot as soon as possible. Don’t get me wrong you can enjoy both but the main aspects of classic or retail for an example is just getting bigger numbers or doing something faster.

[@samwrai]

Before was a game, now is a life objective to maintain.

[@Girczuk]

@@Sheir01 You are right. But the problem with immerse and roleplay is how long you gonna do it/feel it in terms of game length. You can do it for 50? 100h? maybe 200. But problem is that after certain amount of time you wont find good and engaging content, where you wanna put your immerse and roleplay. Maybe its just me, for i love playing retail, i love playing Mistweaver Monk and still i feel immerse while pushing high keys or progressing mythic raid. That factor is still there, but its not as big as it was in vanilla. For me they reduced ability to feel the class that you play in order to extend your game time. And thats just business. But wont say it ruined MMORPG, especially WOW.

[@Sheir01]

@ that’s the thing, they stop caring about adding RPG elements to the game. How long has players been asking for a housing system and they gave us garrisons. Blizzard have been to focus on the numbers in the game and rarely venture outside of just end game content. Only now they are slowly adding in more casual friendly content like delves. For me the game has just became a weekly grind, do raids and mythic+ for vault. Don’t get me wrong I still enjoy the game, I just hope they make classes feel unique again like you said and add stuff like player housing so the game isn’t just end game content only.

[@Sheir01]

@ that’s the thing, they stop caring about adding RPG elements to the game. How long has players been asking for a housing system and they gave us garrisons. Blizzard have been to focus on the numbers in the game and rarely venture outside of just end game content. Only now they are slowly adding in more casual friendly content like delves. For me the game has just became a weekly grind, do raids and mythic+ for vault. Don’t get me wrong I still enjoy the game, I just hope they make classes feel unique again like you said and add stuff like player housing so the game isn’t just end game content only.